newbie with dead Firebird Commander

[herk_1]

First: Hello to all, I'm new the the forum and to the hobby. I've read lots of messages here with great interest and look forward to participating. I'm a former USAF pilot. But I had never flown RC until a week or two ago. My first impression is that the heavy-bird experience isn't going to help all that much.

On to the subject: on my third outing with my new Firebird Commander, I crashed into a slope off the edge of the soccer field that I was coming in to land on (a "turn to short final" that went awry). And now the FC doesn't respond at all to radio transmissions. There's no visible physical damage. I didn't actually see the crash; it was just out of view at the dropoff after the edge of the soccer field, but I found the bird nose-down like a lawn dart in longish unmowed grass. Is there any possibility of cutting open the fuselage of one of these things and finding something simple that could be fixed, like a broken fuse or a loose wire in the circuit board? If not, it's $50 for a new fuselage...or I may just cough up another $35 to get the newer version of the FC, the FC2, which has a rubber nose. After my wreck, I definitely see why they added a rubber nose feature to the newer version.

I noticed that the Easy Star comes highly recommended here. After calling every place in town, I finally found one place that carries it, but the gentleman there warned me that the parts for that plane are extremely hard to get, so if I want to avoid the probability of lots of down time, I should get something like a 'Sky Fly' to learn on instead, which is easy to get parts for. Are the Sky Fly battery packs interchangeable with the HobbyZone FC ones? The pack and the connector look identical in the pictures.

I probably should find an instructor or something, because all three of the crashes that I had in the plane were similar, and I'm still not sure what happened. They were all after doing a low-to-the ground turn of fairly shallow bank that seemed OK one moment, and unrecoverable the next. My pilot-sense from the big planes totally failed me. I guess I've got some UN-learning to do.

[Tinlid]

Welcome herk1 you may have answered your own question try higher banks or maybe slightly higher speed sounds like your tip stalling, the Easystar is very good does require at times long approaches as it does like to float along at times on landing but is a tough bird and very forgiving.

[Leo L]

Hi Herk 1,

Welcome to R/C flight. Your experience with real flying should help you understand some of the things that the plane needs to do to fly properly, but it will not help in the actual flying because you are not in the plane, you are an observer on the ground.

Since you are not getting any response of any kind from the plane, my first guess would be that you have a faulty battery connection. Try replacing the connector on the plane; you can get a replacement for around $3.00. Any damage to the actual electonic board is not easy to troubleshoot or fix; however, if you want to give it a try, you don't need to cut the plane up. You can remove it by doing the following:
1) disconnect the control lines at the tail and attach a drag line to them. They will need to come into the boom to allow removal of the board and the drag line will allow you to pull them back through the boom. Also add a drag line to the antenna.
2) disconnect the rubberband that holds the canopy closed.
3) remove the styrofoam block between the battery compartment and the board
4) remove the small screws at the bottom of the plane on either side of the landing gear slot
5) the board should now be free and can be brought forward through the canopy
6) the motor lead may be too short to allow complete removal of the board. If so, remove the prop, undo the motor mounting screws and pull the motor out with the board.

Horizon Hobby has a great reputation of supporting their products. I suggest that if you cann't fix the problem on your own, you contact them. They might send you a replacement fuselage.

Although the 2-channel FBC is fun to fly, you might want to consider going to a good 3-channel beginner plane. One of the best is the HZ SuperCub. Check it out.

Keep us updated on your progress.

[jcblough]

I'd give that super cub a go too if I was you. I wish it was out when I started flying in feb. I may buy one just to have it.

[BobbyDog]

Hi Herk, welcome to WattFlyer, sorry to hear about your Firebird problems. Fixing is not something you want to be doing alot of when starting out on R/C. Tends to discourage people :confused: . I would suggest having someone with experience help you out to start. However, many people here including myself have learned themselves, you just have to be patient with yourself and dont give up! You will figure it out pretty quickly, after youve learned what not to do the hard way. lol.

Anyway about the plane, I dont have any experience with that one in particular, but it does sound like a lose of power to the reciever or maybe a broken/loose reciever crystal. Not sure if its a replaceable type or not.

I would like to suggest a Magpie Slow Fly for a second(first) plane, its the one I learned on, and I cant say enough about it. There are others that are as good, as I'm sure you'll hear about after others read this post. You will have to spend some money on equipment though. Good news is that you can use all of the equipment you buy on your next plane. Unlike the crappy stuff you'll get with a Ready to Fly model (RTF). Quality equipment makes such a big difference in everything. The phrase around here is "Buy right buy once, buy cheap buy twice."

Once you get your plane flying again, I would suggest not doing any turning whatsoever other than minor corrections when close to the ground. Generally, we suggest flying "Three mistakes high" to new flyers. Do not be afraid of altitude, in the beginning its your best friend! When your ready to land, keep the plane straight all the way to the ground. Probably alot like flying a transport!

Good luck Herk, we're all pulling for ya!

Bob

[dmmalish]

they are nothing but a money pit they are cheap to begin with because they make there money on parts i had over $200 into mine before switching to real rc equipment a hobbico superstar ep combo with a 3 channel futaba radio from tower hobbies $140 total for the combo check it out you will be happier;)

[Leo L]

Sorry to disagree with you, dmmalish. Your bad experience with the Firebird is not representative of most flyers' experience with it. Its actually a terrific plane that is easy to fly, very hardy and is a good stepping stone for a beginning 3-channel plane.

[adhoc]

I noticed that the Easy Star comes highly recommended here. After calling every place in town, I finally found one place that carries it, but the gentleman there warned me that the parts for that plane are extremely hard to get, so if I want to avoid the probability of lots of down time, I should get something like a 'Sky Fly' to learn on instead, which is easy to get parts for.Bah, "extremely hard to get" is overstating it. I wonder if what he is really thinking is "I don't carry those parts, and I want you to buy lots of parts from me..." ;) I've been able to find Multiplex parts from several stores online. The prop was a little difficult, but I just bought a collet-type prop adapter and can now use almost any brand prop (so far I'm using APC). Anyway, you won't break the prop on this plane easily; it is a pusher.

Anyway, don't focus too much on parts... That is a defeatist approach, necessary only on cheap, marginally airworthy planes. The Easy Star is tough, and you'll really have to work at it to break something. I had my share of "unscheduled landings" while teaching myself, and didn't break anything for months... It is a gentle, well-behaved plane and you won't have to struggle to keep it up -- it likes to fly, you just have to guide it around a little... :)

Whatever you end up with, good luck and enjoy!

Andy

[herk_1]

Thanks for the replies,all. I've been out of town for the week. On my way up to my destination I had to stop by the LHS for a new bird to try again at this hobby. If I had seen some of the replies first, I might have bought something different, but what I did buy is a Parkzone Slo-V.

Unfortunately there never was a good calm day. I tried flying on two marginally breezy days (the ribbon on the transmitter would be blowing off and on up to about 30 degrees from the horizonal, which the manual says is the limit). Unlike the FBC, my Slo-V was not in good trim right away (pitch and roll both), so most of my short flights involved frantic control inputs on both trim sliders, the stick, and the throttle, to attempt to initially keep the thing in the air. And even after initially keeping it from crashing, it never did want to remain in a stable condition...but I probably should reserve judgement on what the cause of that was until I get a completely calm day to try it on. I kind of miss that FBC now. I guess I'm not really looking for that much of a challenge after all, I just want something that flies well. (Years of buying flying toys for my son that never flew well made me amazed at how rock-solid that FBC took to the air the first time). The Slo-V also has some quality control issues -- the big stickers on the wings are quite wrinkly; I wonder how much that affects wing efficiency. The receiver is only held on to the frame with double-stick tape and keeps falling off (even when just carrying the thing). The battery connection on the receiver already broke off the retaining tab which "clicks" to hold it to the battery connector (no doubt happened on one of the not-so-soft "landings" where the battery flew out of the rubber-band holding it on, and forced apart the connector), so now I suppose I will need to use a small rubber band or something to hold the connectors together every time I install the battery.

Oh well...if the Slo-V doesn't work out I will go back to 2-channel, and try your troubleshooting operation, Leo, and your flying advice, Bob.

Thanks guys.

[Tinlid]

Think of the slo-v as a tinkerer's plane you can learn heaps by adjusting this adjusting that just to see what the difference is move the wing back move it forward and so forth, one thing i do know is keep to really calm days at first as the slightest breeze can make you think your flying a totally different plane compared to a really calm day i think the plane that is getting a lot of attention and good reports is the super cub mine's waiting to be maiden now for six weeks it's spring time down here and don't the winds just know it :( anyway i think it might be a good plane to consider it just sort of looks and feels right and i would have like to have had one when i started out learning.

[herk_1]

Yes you're right Tinlid. I took the Slo-V out today; the wind was almost calm on my first flight of about 5 minutes, and I was doing much better. Then a breeze of 3-5 mph started kicking up intermittently on my second flight, and the plane quickly became unmanageable. Hard to believe there is that big a difference between the way it behaves in 0-3 mph vs. 3-5 mph wind.

But even in near-calm wind, my Slo-V seems way underpowered. I bought two extra 7-cell batteries for it (the stock battery is 6-cell), and even with one of those battery packs on a full charge (topped off with the car charger on the way to the park), I had to keep the throttle at maximum the whole time, and even then I could only get it up to about 30-40 feet altitude. Then after a few minutes, it wouldn't even go that high and I was practically scraping the ground...no fun at all. This plane seems to constantly be in a narrow zone between having enough power to fly and stay out of stall, or not. :( Maybe I'll try adjusting the fore-aft position of the wing next time and see if that helps

[BobbyDog]

Oh man, this is the kind of stuff that discourages people enough that they give up. I HATE RTF'S! All I can tell you is if you had a quality plane with the proper power system, none of these annoying things would exist. That Slo-V is almost an indoor plane. It is soo light and slow that even a small puff of breeze can make it unstable. An experienced pilot can have a lot of fun with it in the wind, but for a novice its quite difficult. If I were you, I would have another look at the FBC and try and get it flying again. It will fly in a breeze a little better. I'm sure your not willing to go buy another plane at this time, having just bought two already, so the FBC is your best bet. My planes are a little heavier with a better airfoil, so a breeze is not even an issue. I fly comfortably in 25 mph winds all the time. And I'm not constantly trying to regain control.

It would seem that your having a tough time after hand launching a plane. If you have your plane balanced properly, and no or very little wind, the planes you have should almost fly themselves from the start. Make sure you throw the plane into the wind (if there is any) and at a little over half throttle, that way the motor torque and reduced airspeed doesnt turn your plane on you. It should just fly straight away from you on a slight climb. You really shouldnt have to touch the controls untill you decide to turn. If the plane doesnt do this, then there is something wrong. Either too much wind or the plane is not set up correctly. I'm thinking that you are trying to fly in way too much wind with models that are made to fly in NO wind at all. Waiting for a perfectly calm day is a REAL pain in the a**. I know, been there done that, but for your situation its the only solution. Once you get a little flying time in, you can start to fly in the wind more, and once you buy yourself a "good" plane, you can fly in even more wind.

I really hope you get something in the air and start having fun soon, otherwise I'm afraid we will have lost another R/Cer to those damn RTF's!.

Good luck Herk

Bob

P.S. I've included a picture of my very first plane. A dreaded RTF as well. If there was more than ONE mph wind, the plane would roll over and crash. I dont know how long it took me to figure that out lol. They put the cheapest motors they can find and use the bare minimum batteries in these things. I ended up buying a good quality outrunner motor for it, about 40 bucks, and it doubled the speed and flight times. I was -->| |<-- this close to quitting before someone on this forum told me to buy a better motor. It really made the plane FUN to fly. Hope this encourages you a little ;)

[Tinlid]

Yes you're right Tinlid. I took the Slo-V out today; the wind was almost calm on my first flight of about 5 minutes, and I was doing much better. Then a breeze of 3-5 mph started kicking up intermittently on my second flight, and the plane quickly became unmanageable. Hard to believe there is that big a difference between the way it behaves in 0-3 mph vs. 3-5 mph wind.

But even in near-calm wind, my Slo-V seems way underpowered. I bought two extra 7-cell batteries for it (the stock battery is 6-cell), and even with one of those battery packs on a full charge (topped off with the car charger on the way to the park), I had to keep the throttle at maximum the whole time, and even then I could only get it up to about 30-40 feet altitude. Then after a few minutes, it wouldn't even go that high and I was practically scraping the ground...no fun at all. This plane seems to constantly be in a narrow zone between having enough power to fly and stay out of stall, or not. :( Maybe I'll try adjusting the fore-aft position of the wing next time and see if that helps


Yep that's a slo-v... i use to get frustrated at first now i think of it as a challenge and i deliberatly take it out to see if i can beat it sometimes i win some times i don't but i enjoy trying :)

[herk_1]

Decided to get a new Firebird Commander 2 to replace the dead Firebird Commander. I figured I would also give the Slo-V one last chance before relegating it to the trash heap, so I brought the plane and batteries which I charged with the car charger on the trip up and back from the LHS. Today is a perfect flying day...dead calm with an occasional puff of one or two mph.

Well -- wonder of wonders -- it worked much better today. The batteries or motor or something must have needed some break-in cycles to get up to full efficiency or something, because this time I could climb reasonably high (50 feet or so), then actually throttle back some and maintain altitude while doing gentle turns (with little momentary deflections of sidestick). And I got several minutes of good flying in for each battery. In fact, I was running it so long that I was getting worried about how hot the motor was getting to the touch, so I quit flying for a bit to let it cool.

It still is kind of a dog of an airplane performancewise compared to the Commander, but I see some advantages too. I braved a takeoff, even though I didn't have a good place for it (just a narrow asphalt walkpath), and it took off just fine in about 20 feet! And it's so slow that I was able to fly it comfortably within the confines of the soccer field near my home -- a place where I wouldn't want to risk flying the Commander (at least not at my current skill level). At one point I had the thing flying in tight circles around me about waist high! The slow speed also seems to be a plus when it comes to bad landings/crashes, because it usually doesn't hurt anything (that battery connector is the only thing that's broken so far).

So I'm glad I didn't chuck it; it will have a place in my collection.

[Tinlid]

Decided to get a new Firebird Commander 2 to replace the dead Firebird Commander. I figured I would also give the Slo-V one last chance before relegating it to the trash heap, so I brought the plane and batteries which I charged with the car charger on the trip up and back from the LHS. Today is a perfect flying day...dead calm with an occasional puff of one or two mph.

Well -- wonder of wonders -- it worked much better today. The batteries or motor or something must have needed some break-in cycles to get up to full efficiency or something, because this time I could climb reasonably high (50 feet or so), then actually throttle back some and maintain altitude while doing gentle turns (with little momentary deflections of sidestick). And I got several minutes of good flying in for each battery. In fact, I was running it so long that I was getting worried about how hot the motor was getting to the touch, so I quit flying for a bit to let it cool.

It still is kind of a dog of an airplane performancewise compared to the Commander, but I see some advantages too. I braved a takeoff, even though I didn't have a good place for it (just a narrow asphalt walkpath), and it took off just fine in about 20 feet! And it's so slow that I was able to fly it comfortably within the confines of the soccer field near my home -- a place where I wouldn't want to risk flying the Commander (at least not at my current skill level). At one point I had the thing flying in tight circles around me about waist high! The slow speed also seems to be a plus when it comes to bad landings/crashes, because it usually doesn't hurt anything (that battery connector is the only thing that's broken so far).

So I'm glad I didn't chuck it; it will have a place in my collection.




That's more or less what i found out it will fly :p you just have to perservere with it, fly it on those dead calm days just to watch how slow it will fly there is lots of post on how to mod it up but i just basically left mine stock you'll find that you move on to other planes and you wonder what all the fuss was about.

[BobbyDog]

Glad to hear your making some progress Herk. Sounds like your having some better luck. Now that your getting some flying time in, you should have some good fun with the Commander once you get it up in the air. Keep up the good work!

Bob

[herk_1]

Well crud, this hobby can certainly be a roller coaster of ups and downs.

My new Firebird Commander 2 is defective. It won't climb. After the toss is just heads for the ground and crashes. I tried different battery packs; I put the batteries on the charger overtime until they were good and warm; I tried adjusting the tail screws for more pitch up. None of that had any effect, it still drooped the ground and crashed just the same, every launch. The prop even flew off on one of the crashes, and bit into the wing on another. It's been a nearly calm day, and I was tossing it in the upwind direction of what little occasional puffs of air there were. The control surfaces looked to be in perfect alignment with the tail planes. My first Firebird Commander climbed straight out like a champ on the very first toss; this one must have something installed backwards on it or a bad fuselage or motor alignment or something. I called Hobbyzone and arranged for sending it back to them so they can check it out.

[dmmalish]

that plane is a piece of sh-t!!! period it flies good enough out of the box to get you hooked then you end up spending money on parts that you could be spending on more planes or accerories i don't want to say i told you so but :(

[cbatters]

Well crud, this hobby can certainly be a roller coaster of ups and downs.

My new Firebird Commander 2 is defective. It won't climb. After the toss is just heads for the ground and crashes. I tried different battery packs; I put the batteries on the charger overtime until they were good and warm; I tried adjusting the tail screws for more pitch up. None of that had any effect, it still drooped the ground and crashed just the same, every launch. The prop even flew off on one of the crashes, and bit into the wing on another. It's been a nearly calm day, and I was tossing it in the upwind direction of what little occasional puffs of air there were. The control surfaces looked to be in perfect alignment with the tail planes. My first Firebird Commander climbed straight out like a champ on the very first toss; this one must have something installed backwards on it or a bad fuselage or motor alignment or something. I called Hobbyzone and arranged for sending it back to them so they can check it out.

How far in front of you did it crash? (If it was less 15 feet you were not throwing it hard enough and it never got airborne.)

[Tinlid]

Check the prop to see if it's nice and tight on the shaft also correct rotation i once had a push on prop that was loose on the shaft caused by me rotating it by finger on the bench at home.

[cbatters]

OMT - Did you do a couple charge/discharge cycles on the battery befoire attempting to fly the plane? How long a run time are you getting form the battery? (wondering if the battery is getting charged properly)

Taxing around on the ground is a good way to get a feel for the controls and break in the motor / battery before flying.



Clint

[herk_1]

It went 20-30 feet before hitting the ground. It not only arced down toward the ground, it pulled/rolled a little to one side. So that it knocked the wing askew on impact each time (hence the prop biting into the wing). I launched it exactly the same as I launched my original Firebird Commander. But on this one it just didn't want to lift, it drove itself to one side and toward the ground. I think it's bent in some way, or motor mismounted.

The batteries that I tried with it were the exact same batteries that I had already used to successfully fly my original Firebird (original battery and a spare that I bought, plus the ones from my two ZigZag 2 boats, which use the same part-number battery). They had each definitely been through at least 6 complete charge cycles (when we go out with the boats, we go through all four batteries -- 2 packs per boat -- and we run the boats until the low-speed warning). I didn't even use the new battery that came with the new FBC2, I just checked to make sure it was the same part number as the batteries I had already cycled and run successfully (it is the same -- part #HBZ1012).

[cbatters]

It went 20-30 feet before hitting the ground. It not only arced down toward the ground, it pulled/rolled a little to one side. So that it knocked the wing askew on impact each time (hence the prop biting into the wing). I launched it exactly the same as I launched my original Firebird Commander. But on this one it just didn't want to lift, it drove itself to one side and toward the ground. I think it's bent in some way, or motor mismounted.

The batteries that I tried with it were the exact same batteries that I had already used to successfully fly my original Firebird (original battery and a spare that I bought, plus the ones from my two ZigZag 2 boats, which use the same part-number battery). They had each definately been through at least 6 complete charge cycles (when we go out with the boats, we go through all four batteries -- 2 packs per boat -- and we run the boats until the low-speed warning). I didn't even use the new battery that came with the new FBC2, I just checked to make sure it was the same part number as the batteries I had already cycled and run successfully (it is the same -- part #HBZ1012).

Check the control surfaces to see that they are not bent and try a strong level throw with little or no wind with the motor off.

With a properly trimmed airplane and a strong toss it should fly straight and glide / land. The symptoms you describe are consistant with stalling before the airplane ever reaches flying speed.


Clint

[syberjunkie]

also, check and make sure the tail boom is still "snapped" in place inside the fuse. If the front of the boom is out of that holder, then it will do just what you are saying. If so, seems like once it has popped out, it will easly come out again. So run a mini zip tie through the body and around the end of the boom to keep it in place. I hope this makes sense.

[cbatters]

OMT - Angle of horizontal stabilizer is adjusted by loosening and tightening the two screws that attach the tail. you may want to try loosening the rear screw and tightening the front to provide a little more up elevator.

(Althought the fact that it tip stalls to the left is classic symptom of not having enough airspeed and stalling.)

My guess is that you need to do a couple cycles on the motor/batteries to provide the same thrust you were used to with your other plane. Make sure the throttle trim is in center or pressed forward to get maximum thrust.

Also note that the amount of wind has a dramatic effect on how hard you have to launch the plane. In 5-8 MPH it will fly out of your hand whereas in calm comditions, you ahve to give it a mighty firm toss.


Good luck.


Clint

[herk_1]

I just wanted to make an update post on this thread to publicly state how Hobbyzone supported their products in my case.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I was having a great time flying a Firebird Commander, but after a few days' flying I wrecked it, so I ended up buying a new Firebird Commander 2 to replace it with. The new Firebird Commander 2 just wouldn't fly at all from the git-go; it was clearly defective.

Well, my customer support experience went like this:

1) I called Hobbyzone and explained the situation to a customer support person. He didn't try to argue me out of it at all, he just said send it back for evaluation. I asked if he would send me a return label and he said yes.

2) A week later I got the return label, and it was actually a postpaid UPS sticker, so I didn't even have to pay postage either direction.

3) Three and a half weeks after mailing it back, I got a replacement plane in the mail. I know it's not the original plane I sent them because it's a different channel transmitter/receiver.

4) I took the new plane out today for a short launch-and-land test flight to see if it would fly. It does fly! Thank you Hobbyzone for supporting your products!

They didn't include a note or anything else telling what was wrong with the plane I sent them; I don't know if they even evaluated it. I'm curious to know what was wrong with it. Anyway, I'm glad to have a good Commander again, I can't wait to give it a full workout.

[herk_1]

Well I just got in an extended flight with the new FB2, and it definitely is one sweet-flying bird! The winds were a little high, but I wanted to try a rolling takeoff, and I figured some wind would be an advantage for doing that. I set it down on a parking lot pointed into the wind toward a soccer field. I very nearly chickened out because of the wind. The takeoff was a bit shaky directionwise, but I was determined not to hamfist the thing at low altitude/speed so I let it do its thing at first then nudged it gently where I wanted it to go.

Once safely airborne it flew just like I remembered the original Firebird Commander flying. I was flying without the ACT (I turned it off first thing after inserting the battery). The landing went pretty well too, except that to land into the wind I had to fly to the other side of the parking lot, which was full of obstacles like light poles and trees, so I couldn't get down low enough on the approach and rolled off the end of the lot and nosed over before stopping, but it was slow enough by then that no harm was done.

[cbatters]

Congrats. When trimmed properly, the FBC II flies very nicely.

It also does a respectable job of ROG takeoff/landing from packed dirt/grass on a soccer field. FBCII is actually better at ROG takeoff than my Challenger due to higher lift wing on the FBCII. My son loves flying his FBCII.



Clint

[CGFlyer]

Had a great time with mine this weekend. About three hours of flight and had the wind kick and flip it on the 6th or 7th landing. New tail fin and Im up in the air for hour 3. Have a couple extra batteries and this puppy loves to fly!

Now if my wing dragon will scoot LOL

[BobbyDog]

Thats great news Herk. I'm glad you've finally got something worth flying :) Its nice to hear that Hobbico went the extra mile as far as fixing/replacing the plane. However it would of been nice to get a working model from the start. Thanks for keeping us posted and good luck!

Bob

[cbatters]

Glad to hear that HorizonHobby / HobbyZone took good care of you and that it is flying so well.

A pity they do not put a "Do-Not-Disturb" label on the tail screws with a reference to the page number in the manual on adjusting trim. I think a lot of folks snug up the screws before flying, not realizing they are throwing off the trim. Two turns in the wrong direction and the plane either won't get off the ground or will keep stalling when climbing under full throttle. (The plane must also be re-trimmed before attempting to use the larger 7 cell battery.)

Horizontal stabilizer trim is especially critical on a 2 channel plane because you have no elevator control during flight. Trimmed correctly, the plane flies/glides very well.



Clint

[herk_1]

I got in several flights with the FBC2 this weekend. The last one was in some pretty strong winds...at least eight mph, gusting to 13 (the antenna ribbon was blowing straight out almost constantly). I was visiting relatives who took me to a huge open space to fly, from atop a hill where I could see for a mile around, so I wasn't too worried about a flyaway. Plus, I had been practicing the "Death Spiral" for emergency decent (link here (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11522&highlight=death+spiral)), and I had taped a note with my name and phone number in the battery compartment (another good tip I got from this forum!). Well the FBC2 flew just fine in that wind, I never felt like I was out of control, and had no trouble keeping the plane upwind of me (fortunately the wind didn't get stronger as I climbed the plane up). I've been careful with this plane not to do any turning anywhere near the ground, and I have not crashed it once.

I also tried out Hobbyzone's airdrop module for the first time. It worked the first time without a hitch. I was worried at first that it would turn the ACT back on, since the command for bomb-drop and the toggle for ACT both use the reverse-throttle switch. But when testing it on the ground, the bomb-drop only needs a short reverse-throttle input to trigger it, while the ACT toggle requires holding it back a couple of seconds.

Also - I ordered a couple of Aiptek Pencam SDs. Has anyone tried to use that with a Firebird Commander? I'm thinking it might be a bit heavy (the Pencam with batteries should weigh about 2.6 ounces; the airdrop module with payload weighs 1 ounce), I might have to wait for my next plane to use it.

[cbatters]

Congrats on your successful flyng.

Flew 8 batteries each with my son between Saturday / Sunday. Winds ranger from calm -> ~10 MPH.

Commander II was definately a bit "nose high" at times when flying into the wing but my son had no trouble bringing it down for a safe landing each time. (Good idea to trim the plane with a little less up-elevator with the attachment screws or use the wing shim when flying in high winds )



Cint

[cbatters]

OMT - You can permanently disable ACT by either covering the lower sensor with black tape or by removing the top sensor wire on the receiver board and installing a small jumper.

(The ACT circuit uses 2 cadmium sulfide cells that change resistance based on the amount of light. They are configured in series as a voltage divider and the microcontroller samples the voltage to determine if the plane is diving. The more light, the lower the resistance so a jumper effectively disables the circuit.)



Clint

[herk_1]

I noticed that Sunday too -- when turning into the wind the plane sometimes got into some extreme nose-high attitudes. Then when running downwind the plane looked like it was really screaming thru the air; of couse it was just groundspeed not airspeed. All in all it was quite an exhilarating roller-coaster flight; I wish I knew of a place in my local area where I could fly in winds that high without worrying about the plane ending up in a treetop or a rooftop.

[cbatters]

I noticed that Sunday too -- when turning into the wind the plane sometimes got into some extreme nose-high attitudes. Then when running downwind the plane looked like it was really screaming thru the air; of couse it was just groundspeed not airspeed. All in all it was quite an exhilarating roller-coaster flight; I wish I knew of a place in my local area where I could fly in winds that high without worrying about the plane ending up in a treetop or a rooftop.

My son (7 Y.O) learned to fly on a 2 channel thrust vector plane so using throttle control and steering to avoid stalling is second nature for him. (Next time we go flying I am going to try the Commander II wing on the Challenger fuse and see if it is a good 3 channel configuration for him to learn on.)

Next time you are flying in higher winds, you may want to insert the shim under the rear of the wing to reduce the angle of attack. (or adjust the tail screws to raise the front of the ruddervators.


Clint

[cbatters]

OMT - I encourage people to disable ACT. My sons only crash to date was a result of ACT. He banked pretty steeply (although still in control at about 50' off the ground) but ACT took over and he could not steer the plane and it crashed into a tall light pole. He kept saying that he was turning the plane but it was not responding.

Instead of having to disable ACT from the transmitter it each time a battery is changed I am just going to cover the bottom sensor.




Clint

[herk_1]

Clint - Have you noticed that your FBC2 landing gear frequently gets bent out of alignment? The first ROG that I did with my plane had a reasonably straight takeoff roll (pulled just a little to one side), but on the second one, it pulled a LOT, to the point that the plane tipped over and dragged a wingtip. I wasn't sure what the problem was, but on a subsequent excursion, I happened to notice that one wheel was farther forward than the other. So the next time I did a ROG, I experimented with bending the gear a little and testing with short ground rolls. Sure enough, even small changes have a major effect on how straight the plane rolls on takeoff.

I flew three batteries today, and did all ROGs (no hand launches)...and before each takeoff I did a short test ground run, and each time I had to re-bend the wheels to get the plane to roll straight on the ground. None of my landings (including several fun touch-and-goes!) seemed to be smashing down hard on one wheel or anything like that, so it must not take much to bend the gear out of alignment.

It was stiff winds again today (about 8-10 mph). The only scare I had was when one of the batteries ran out (motor quit) at the worst possible time -- when I was at the far downwind extent of a planned landing approach (so I was also relatively low). I didn't make it to the "airstrip" (parking lot), but I got lucky and the airplane made a safe "pancake" touchdown on a grassy road embankment.

[cbatters]

LANDING GEAR
Same-same here. My son lands on packed dirt / grassy field and the gear definately gets out of allignment. My Challenger landing gear is even worse - metal seems to be softer than the gear on the Commander II and I know I land faster than he does on his Commander.

Let me know if you find a better landing gear or a mod to beef up the exiting landing gear. (Larger wheel and/or some sort of shock absorber / rubber band between the wheel and the front of the fuse.)

THROTTLE CUTOFF
Next time you lose power at an inoportune moment, just press the throttle lever all the way down for 1-2 seconds and then you will have another shot of power to finish your landing. (I don't recall if this is mentioned in the manual or not.)



Clint

[Bill G]

I've never flown a Firebird Commander, but I've flown the wing from it, and I'm convinced they are in no way a beginner plane. Sure, the fan nacelles may have some effect on the wing, but this high aspect ratio gull wing is a flip-over demon. Note that I didn't say tip-stall, since I'm not sure that's what's really going on. I had an RTF plane some years ago with a similar wing that exhibited the exact characteristics in flight.

I first had the Commander wing on my Arado234 (last pic), which has been replaced by a FlyZone Cessna 180 wing. Anxious to see the new results.

Well I put the Commander wing on one of my Guillows FW190 conversions, and had a blast with it today. This plane is supposed to be my test bed for my other Guillows 190 conversion, which is a cleaner/lighter build. Well the FockeWulf-Commander was horrible at slow speeds, but at 40mph+ its highly responsive and controllable. Not a beginner plane, however, convincing me once again that the Commander is not a beginner plane.
Wouldn't fly worth a nickel until I swapped motors for a 125W setup. It needs the power for stability.

Took 5 flight pics, but had the camera backwards, so they were of the bottom of my face.:eek: :mad:
Taking flight pics while flying is tough, and you don't take your eyes off this plane in flight, as its not real pitch stable!
Heck of a flight though!