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alienx
09-24-2006, 10:08 PM
I've guess I've come full circle of sorts. When I started this hobby about six months ago, I looked at a lot of different planes (like everyone else!), trying to find the "right" one for me. I never gave GWS a second look simply because of those ridiculous looking wheels. To be fair, I've been interested only in the scale and warbird planes, so the wheels were a deal-breaker for me.

But after a while, I kept hearing about GWS planes and how cheap you can get one. By this time I had already built a foamy or two as well, so the idea of a foam plane was something I had warmed up to. Two other things seemed to be factoring in as well. One, I liked the idea of getting a kit without parts included that I wouldn't use (a brushed motor and ESC!!). Two, I wanted to be able to glass or paint a plane. So a plane white foam GWS slope soaring kit for $26 bucks was perfect (not to mention the fact that the GWS planes are slightly larger than the Alfa's, which is great in my mind!).

So I bought the Corsair. Nothing but white foam and a bunch of plastic parts and sticker sheets in the box. Well, some GWS glue, which everyone raves about, and an odd other part or two. Here's what the box full of goodies looks like.

I've already done a lot of the build already, but I've been collecting pictures all along, so I figured I would put a small build thread together with my experiences.

alienx
09-24-2006, 10:20 PM
The first thing that I noticed is how nice it is to actually have two halves of theh fuse to work with. All the other planes I've owned always made it difficult to get things located to balance. With the GWS, you can size up the job before you put the fuse halves together.

The biggest thing I did here was to expand the battery compartment to hold my Apex 1350 batteries (and my one TP 1320). You can see in one of the pictures below that this was relatively easy with a razorsaw and a sharp Xacto blade. You can see a hint of some black sharpie dots marking the side of the fuse that I enlarged.

The next thing to do is put the control rod tubes in. TIP 1: GWS glue is contact cement, not glue. I had to come back and CA my tubes where I already had GWS glued them. The small pool of GWS glue probably eventually dried, but it would havee taken 48 hours or more to do so.

After doing the battery compartment and control rod tubes, I glued the fuse halves together with epoxy. I chose not to use the lighter GWS glue (anywhere) due to how tough it can be to unbond if you mis-align the the parts.

Oh, incidentally, there is a picture of the battery hatch below. When you enlarge the battery opening, you are removing the spot that the cover's "latch" would glue to. I had to split that "latch" as I saw in someone else's picture somewhere on the web. It was a pretty simple mod.

alienx
09-24-2006, 10:33 PM
After glueing the fuse halves, You get to cut the control surfaces from the wing and stabilizers. Then you glue in the vertical stabilizer. There is a nice foam slot that it snugs into, but the wing is not ready to be mounted, so yu have to be careful and align the vertical stabs position by sight to the fuse. After gluing the stabilizer, you can hinge and glue the rudder. That is another thing I liked about the GWS planes...the rudder!! I guess I am a purist, so the full house set-up always appeals to me. Later on I'll describe the adventure I was having with the aileron torque rods and how I considered leaving the rudder off, but it all worked out. Patience was very important here!!

After the vertical tail is on, you get to mount the horizontal. I guess by this point I had already dry fit the wing so I had a reference for the tail. When I fit the wing, I made some pencil marks across the front and back of the mount onto the fuse so I could always relocate my center (an old carpenter's trick!). I knew I was going to be painting over them so it didn't matter.

The elevator halves are linked with a "U" wire that is glued to the horizontal stab, which actually got mounted just before gluing the wire. In the horizontal stab is a tail of sorts. It was barely attached to the horizontal, so instead of trying to finess the wire into the center, I just cut it off flush to the stab. It is only a plug to fill the gap in the tail of the fuse, so it made no sense to try to be delicate with it.

Once I got the wire centered and glued, I glued the plug in the tail, spackled the hole up and then sanded it flush to the fuse.

Grasshopper
09-24-2006, 10:40 PM
Nice build thread Alien. Keep up the good work. I'm anxious to see it finished.

alienx
09-24-2006, 10:47 PM
I will say from the outset that I like to work with fiberglass. I like the process of creating a lite strong laminated surface. So I had intended to glass this plane. But I also was very well aware of the cost of the weight of that process. And with no real-world experience with a GWS plane, I had NO IDEA what the weight would end up being. I did know that I wanted it to fly like a big Alfa. So given the larger span, I figured 16 oz would be about right. My other Alfa's are in around 14.3 oz or less, depending on motor and battery. I had also never painted a plane myself either. So all along the build I have been fearful of adding any weight.

I also bought a bunch of carbon fiber products too. But when all was said and done, I only glassed the horizontal control surfaces. They were incredibly flexible out of the box. I used one layer of .75 oz glass, and one coat of polycrylic. The two ailerons and the two elevator halves weighed 6 grams before glassing and 10 grams after. This small weight gain seems to have been well worth it. The control surfaces are like space shuttle tiles now. I couldn't believe how much rigidity they received from one coat of glass and poly. Incidentally, You must glass both sides. I accidentally glassed one of the elevator halves on the same side twice. It remained very flexible in spite of two coats of glass and poly on one side. As soon as I added another coat on the opposite side, it was hard as a rock. This just goes to show the value of the laminate process versus simply the added surface products alone.

One other tip about glassing. I never worry about wrapping things. I just cover the side and trim to the edge. This is very simple to do if you get some poly soaked into the glass about a 1/4 inch past the edge of the area you are covering. The glass will cut very easily with a razor if it has poly soaked into it. If not, you will have a very tough time trimming the soft glass.

alienx
09-24-2006, 11:05 PM
Now, the most diffficult part of the build so far. The aileron torque rods!!

I think the torque rod system is excellent. A very simple design, with complete invisibility. The problem here is that the Corsair has a bent wing. The torque rods work on the premise that they are stiff enough to move the ailerons without twisting themselves up. You can see the problem that exists when you need a rigid torque rod, and that rod needs to fit into a curved channel in the wing. I already can't wait to build another GWS. I think I have all the ones with curved wings out of the way now!!

Well, here is my now-chosen method for installing the rods (and it did take more than one try!). First, the tubes that glued in the channel are too small to be effective. I used a full tube at the critical points instead of cutting them in half like the book said to do. In my mind, the critical part is the bend at the bottom of the gullwing.

I first layed the rod in the wing channel and glued the inboard portion. I didn't try to fit it to the channel angle, I just let it rest down the direction of the wing. After that dried, I glued the center section that sits in the belly of the curve. Use a piece of balsa or similar to get the rod nice and snug up against the bottom of the channel. I had to hold them in place for about an hour (literally) before I felt comfortable letting them go. Lastly, glue the outboard edge of the tube right next to the aileron. The channels were pretty self centering. That is, if you made sure the center of the torque rod was deep in its place, the aileron end ended up being pretty much centered and parellel to the wing. If not, just shim the aileron end a little until it is right and then glue it in. Make sure to get some chapstick or the like on the rod itself before you glue it. The epoxy tended to overrun my tube sections. I think this also helped as a lubricant.

After I got the torque rods in, I filled the channels in the wing with spackle and sanded everything smooth.

alienx
09-24-2006, 11:10 PM
The last thing I wanted to do before painting was to see what I was going to have to do with the cowl. I trimmed it and did a test fit of the motor to make sure I would be able too get everythng lined up using the stock mount.

Here is another thing about the GWS that is worth the price of admission. It comes with a great stick mount system AND motor mount (even though I bought the unpowered slope soaring kit). I wanted to use a 400XT, and it happened to bolt right to the motor mount that comes in the kit. This meant that I could also use the stick mount in the plane. GWS has a top and bottom channel for the stick to glue into. The top seems to be made for the stock motor. It allows the shaft to mount in the center of the cowl. If you use a brushless motor like me, you can use the bottom stick mount and just flip the motor upsidedown. This also centers the shaft. What a great idea!! And all the parts come in the box!!

alienx
09-24-2006, 11:12 PM
Nice build thread Alien. Keep up the good work. I'm anxious to see it finished.
Thanks grasshopper. I have a lot more to post but I need a rest. I'm typing this all on my laptop and my eyes are crossing. More later!

alienx
09-24-2006, 11:43 PM
OK, before I added any other parts that I would end up having to mask off, I figured I would paintt the plane. I was also anxious to try my new toys!! With a recommendation from another flyer, I picked up an inexpensive comressor and airbrush from Harbor freight. All-in ...about $64 bucks. It turned out to be perfect for my needs, which was simply to be able to mix some inexpensive craft store acrylics, and paint a simple pattern on a foam plane. Incidentally, I have a Michael's craft store down the road. i got a boatload of 50 cent bottles of paint in different colors. They work perfectly when cut to about 50/50 with windshield wiper fluid.

I had intended to do a navy blue top and white or blue/gray bottom. But when I masked the wing to start to paint the bottom white, I learned that I had dno idea what I was doing. My fear of the airbrush went away almost immediately, but the complexity of the masking and the fact that I couldn't see the white paint on the white foam, made me abort and go with a mostly navy paintjob. I left the center section of theh wing bottom white because I had already painted it. But everything else ended up navy blue.

I must say that I was looking forward to having a paint scheme like this. I love the stark contrast of the colors, and I don't own a blue plane. At any rate, the small section of white on bottom ended up looking pretty good, andd I was thrilled with how well the masking worked out when I finally got to unveil it today.

The white only took about two coats, but the blue was a different story. I put about 9 coats on the blue sections. I weighed everything as I went though so I knew, in spite of my fears to the contrary, that I wasn't actually adding a lot of weight. The airbrush just wisps on a light coat each time. But eventually, the opacity comes up and you can finally stop adding more paint layers.

The cowl is plastic so it seemed to paint very nicely and ony require about 4 coats.

Below are some of thee paintt photos. Some of them, like the one of the wing, you can tell are a single coat. Others are closer to 5 coats.

One thing I will say about the finish process is that I tried to skim coat as much of the surface as I could to get rid of the orange peel texture of the foam. I had limited success with this but the spackle takes paint differently than the foam. So it took a lot of coats of paint to get the paint to even up at all. I could have added more paint, but it just wasn't worth the effort to me. I may add a coat of poly at the end if my weight is still down.

Incidentally, I added about .6 oz to the weight of the plane (wing, fuse, and cowl). That's a lot better than I thought it would be.

alienx
09-24-2006, 11:56 PM
After I painted all the body parts, I got to unmask everything. I was absolutely thrilled with how well everything looked. I guess a master model builder would laugh at my efforts, but I think it exceeded my expectations!

I wanted to get some nice bright white details on the airframe, but didn't like the look of the big heavy stickers in the kit. So I chose some elements I like and bought some artist mask and started making my own stencils. This worked very well on the cowl because it is a relatively smooth surface. I didn't have as a good luck on the fuse because of the slight bubble texture of the foam. So I am on hold here for now. I may try to buy Alfa decals and use them, or see if I can use a few of the kit stickers. I think it is time to back away for a little while though. All this painting took a long time and I need a break.

Now the good news. I weighed the plane and all the components that still need to go in it. I am just about 15.9 oz AUW not counting any glue or velcro I still need to use. I am very happy about that!!!

Here's a few pics of the masking process and the unmasked parts of tehh airframe.

alienx
09-25-2006, 01:17 AM
Just a few more cockpit details. I painted the cockpit gray, which seems to be a good contrast to the blue. I also added a headrest pillow so my ex-Alfa pilot would be comfortable.

alienx
09-29-2006, 02:15 AM
Getting pretty close now! I mounted the tail servos and glued the rod tubes in place in the belly. The instructions don't really seem to be right. They tell you to glue the horns on before they mention mounting the rods. But sincne you use Z-bends instead of any other type of detachable connection. You can't really do this after the horns are attached. I was able to bend the rods AND the horns enough to get them rods in, but Ii would do it differently next time. That is, I would attch the horns to the rods and then glue the horns to the plane (after inserting the rods in the control tubes, obviously).

You can also see what seems to be a pretty standard GWS requirement. That is, I had to sand some small channels in the fuse where the aileron torque rods were coming in contact when the wing is attached. The fuse was limiting the range of motion of the ailerons.

This brings up another goood point. The tail rods andd aileron rods are all crammed near eachother in the wing bay. The book tells you to use Z-bends on both ends of the conttrol rods but i prefer the simpler easy-connector method. The only problem here is that I think I would have either had barely any clearence or none at all, between the aileron linkage and the tail linkage. So for the Ailerons, I am going to compromise and use the double Z-bend method.

Lastly, for the wing servo, there is a nice big square cut out of the wing. The problem is that the hole is too big for the servo (HS-55). So I sanded down some 1/8" balsa stock to use as shims on the sides off the servo and then epoxied it in place. I also sanded a small channel at one end of the hole to allow the servo lead to slip out under the servo tab. I actually made this channel on both ends because I changed my mind and turned the servo around so the lead is out the tail end of the hole instead ofo towards the nose.

I just need to let the servo dry so I can put on the linkages. Then I am ready to try to locate the ESC and Rx, and try to balance this baby.

casedit
09-29-2006, 06:20 PM
Alienx - very interesting project with a lot of info for anyone who will undertake one of these... good luck - keep it going!

alienx
09-29-2006, 08:12 PM
Thanks! Really looking forward to finishing it up this weekend. I ordered some decal paper so I could get the graphics I wanted, but the rest of the build should be done in a few hours. I'm really interested to see what my actual AUW ends up being.

alienx
09-30-2006, 03:07 AM
I got the aileron linkage on tonight. I will say that I don't think the GWS rods are very thick (or strong as a result). They don't seem to be rigid enough for the job and I think that might result in mushy control feel. But I guess that doesn't mean you can't swap them out for a thicker set. We'll see how it goes.

The only other thing I had to do was hollow the battery cover itself. The battery leads were preventing the hatch from seating correctly.

alienx
09-30-2006, 03:39 AM
She's virtually done. I just need to balance her and do a final mount of the electronics. I just have them laying in the fuse in the general area I think they need to go.

I am extremely happy to say the AUW is 15.8 oz. Well under than 18 I figured I would have a tough time making. In retrospect, I really can't see what people are doing to build them with weights over 20 oz. I know some are using heavier 2100 mah size batteries, but even that is only going to add about 2.4 oz in my case. Anyway, I am very happy to be at 15.8 oz with my heavier 1350 Apex battery. When I fly it with the TP 1320, the weight will drop to 15.3. Just about an ounce heavier than my Alfa's.

She should be a nice flier, with flight times in the 10-11 minute range. I still have to finish the graphics. I ordered some clear and white inkjet decal paper so I can make a few emblems and some other lettering and whatnot. And I may add a coat or two of poly to seal her up from the dewey grass I have here in the morning.

To summarize the weight gain due to finishing the plane, here is what I found. I measured the fuse, wing, and cowl separately and painted them in these separate pieces.

Cowl: 4 coats, total weight 2 grams
Wing: 7 coats, total weight 6 grams
Fuse: 9 coats, total weight 5 grams

Total paint weight = 13 grams (less than half an ounce!)

I must say too that I weighed the pieces after they dried enough to put them on my scale. But the Monday after the weekend I did most of the painting, the wing felt very dry to me, so I weighed it again. If I remember correctly, it was around 2 grams lighter. I guess the paint continued to dry after it was dry to the touch. So my true paint weight is probably more like 9 grams or so (about 1/3 oz). That's pretty good. When I started this project, I had alotted 2.5 oz in my calculation for paint alone. What a great weight savings over my estimate! It's good to know this for next time.

Here are a few pics of the before and after. I haven't checked the weather for the weekend, but if it is good, I may have to try to maiden this baby. Man I do love the look of that bright white on navy blue!! I also toyed with the idea of painting the inside of the cowl and front of the fuse. But I think they look great in white.

One last detail. I used a MP Jet spinner nut. It weighed almost three grams, but it looks very very good in my mind. I am happy with the choice.

alienx
09-30-2006, 03:47 AM
Here's a few more shots for posterity.

Andy

timocharis
09-30-2006, 03:58 AM
alien:

The weight is just a question of your target. Mine came in about 23 oz, but it has a huge motor (3.3oz; this is a corsair, right?) that develops about 50oz of thrust with a 2100 3s battery. Together, they weigh in at just about 8 ounces.

Also, to avoid the aileron linkage hassles (in every other GWS plane they're great, but that bend...) I put servos in the wing. Literally "in". You can't see the servos or arms at all -- just the rods exiting the wing. That means a bit bigger receiver also. More weight.

The leading edge of the wing is glassed, and the entire undercamber is filled with balsa and sanded flush, then glassed and finished. More weight (but no unfortunate excessive lift character, and far better inverted handling).

I'm sure yours will fly lighter and handle tighter. Mine requires (and delivers) some speed to stay up.

The cool thing about <$30 kits like this is, you can build to all kinds of different targets without taking out a second mortgage. Light? Fine. Fast? Fine. Retracts? There's room (but getting scale Corsair action would be quite a challenge).

Oh, by the way: the GWS glue is pretty good for some things, but especially not (as you mention) for putting the fuse together. For that (and most other operations) I like to use an aliphatic glue, specifically Titebond. It actually holds better than epoxy (better penetration) and dries rigid enough to sand (and is far easier to sand. You can also use it as the adhesive when filling goobers with micro balloons). It is also lighter than epoxy.

Looking forward to the flight report...


Dave

alienx
10-02-2006, 12:22 AM
No maiden yet, but I got everything bolted down and balanced. I am balanced at about 50-55mm (finger method), which is about 5-10 mm forward of the GWS recommendation for the COG.

As I was tinkering with the plane to finish up, I wanted to seal the paint with a coat of poly, so I did. All in, it added about 1/3 of an ounce. But i'm not tail heavy, so I guess I am OK with that. At least the finish feels sealed as opposed to the dry finish of the paint. My final AUW looks like about 16.12 oz.

I also didn't like how the NAVY logo came out so I quickly sanded it off and repainted before the poly went on. Now the plane is ready for some homemade decals or I may bail and buy an Alfa set if HL has them. I'm not afraid to make my own, but I got to thinking how inkjet printed photos tend to fade very badly. I'd hate to have that happen to my decals. We'll see what happens.

But the plane is now in my Tx in the model #5 spot. The only thing I don't like so far about this project is the aileron response. One side seems to be limiting itself on down travel. And there is a little stiction in the system. I have plenty of travel if I move the rods by hand, but the servo seems to not like to move as much. I don't think I am binding inside the fuse, but you can't see the linkage once the wing is bolted up. There is no top access.

I hind sight, I could have gone with two wing servos, something I dreaded at first because I didn't know how much my AUW was going to be. I could have come in around 17 oz and been fine I'm sure. Something to consider next time I guess. But this plane was a learning experience from the outset, so I guess I accomplished what I set out to do. I just hope it's enjoyable to fly.

I am flip-flopping between the 8x6 and 9x4.7 SF props. This motor seems to be making about 10-14 watts less than the one I have in my P47. So with the 9x4.7, I am making about 110 watts/lb. The 8x6 gives me abotu 122 watts/lb or so, but it also brings my amp draw up to the high 11's from around 10 for the 9x4.7. I'll probably go with the 8x6 because it will give me a little more power, but that 9x4.7 looks so nice on the Corsair. It just looks right!

Anyway, I am ready to maiden as soon as the weather calms down here. But with the shorter days, I don't think I'm going to be able to get a shot until next weekend.

Here's is what it looks like now with the poly and no NAVY logo.

Come on good weather!

alienx
10-02-2006, 12:34 AM
alien:

The weight is just a question of your target.
Looking forward to the flight report...


Dave

You are correct Dave. I guess I knew this from the millions of posts I read before I built mine. Some pretty impressive birds out there! And in every foamy I've built so far, I always felt like I would indulge myself with a durable finish or gear or a bigger battery or whatever. But everytime I actually start to build, and feel how light the foam is, and how heavy the battey and motor and even the y-harnesses are for that matter, I can't get myself to add the weight. Then it becomes an exercise in the exact opposite direction.

Maybe with my next P47. I still have one in the box from E-flite that I imagine I would like to build nice and robust, maybe with a Park 480 this time instead of the 450 in my current one. Who knows.

I have to fix my Alfa P47 first (post office damage), and get a few good flights on this I hope. Then I will have three planes in the flightline for the first time ever ...did I just jinx myself!?

timocharis
10-02-2006, 03:57 AM
Interestingly, I have the same prop issue you do, but made the opposite decision. Here's why:

If I fly with the 9x4.7 sf, I draw a hair over 22 amps max @ 50mph w/49oz thrust (vs 23.5oz weight). With the 8x6sf, it's 28 amps max @ 60mph ... but only 38oz thrust. For maiden and tuning up, I want all the thrust I can get to launch and get in the air fast, trim it out, and make sure things are all okay. Thrust gets you out of trouble; speed gets you into trouble.

I'll get into trouble after the shakeout flights. I'm sure I'll have enough speed to stay in the air.

I very much like the idea of getting my hands on some Alfa waterslide decals, same as you. I hate to mess up this finish with GWS stickers.


Dave

alienx
10-02-2006, 02:58 PM
Ah, this sounds like the whole torque v. horse power discussion all over again. I never understood that either.

I have no problem using the 9x4.7, but my only means to evaluate a prop is using my watt meters output reading (Wp). And comparing the watt number to what I am using to fly my Alfa's, I am just a little worried that 110 watts/pound is going to be too little (flying the Alfa's at about 155 watts/pound. I guess that's not really the truth though, I'm sure it will stay aloft with that much power.

I guess I am losing my blissfully ignorant approach to maiden flights now. The more you know, the more you worry!!

timocharis
10-03-2006, 01:26 AM
Mine went up with the 9x4.7 today and flew fine. But it was nose-heavy, so I was glad of the extra thrust -- had to make some quick adjustments after launch.

Watts/lb doesn't mean jack as a single parameter. If you were using a 4-inch prop, you could put an amazing number of watts in and still not fly right. When I have some idea what speed I'll need to stay up and test a plane, I prefer to start with extra thrust. Once it's trimmed, adjust accordingly.



Dave

arck
10-04-2006, 10:23 PM
Ah, this sounds like the whole torque v. horse power discussion all over again. I never understood that either.

I have no problem using the 9x4.7, but my only means to evaluate a prop is using my watt meters output reading (Wp). And comparing the watt number to what I am using to fly my Alfa's, I am just a little worried that 110 watts/pound is going to be too little (flying the Alfa's at about 155 watts/pound. I guess that's not really the truth though, I'm sure it will stay aloft with that much power.

I guess I am losing my blissfully ignorant approach to maiden flights now. The more you know, the more you worry!!
Congrats ALIEN for the proyect, could you post a video of him?
wm

alienx
10-05-2006, 12:03 AM
I'll try to get some video. I hope for a good Sunday. My video worthy buddies are out of commssion now though, so I'll have to think outside the box. One is flight instructing in California. The other is remodelling his house.

In an unrelated note, I was speaking to my dad tonight. He bought a Spektrum radio and lipo and some connectors and whatnot tonight at his local hobby shop. He wanted to get himself an E-starter too but they had to order it for him. He's all excited though!! The guy that seems to run his field is going to help him go brushless and lipo from the start, which is good in my mind. I was going to set him up with the stock plane because I figured it would be easier to do over the phone. But he seems to be getting good advice down there, and he's plugged into a lot of things down there now. He already has a foot in the door at another nice field with a paved runway, so if I get back soon, I may have to build a bigger plane!!

Stay tuned. Hopefully I'll get some video up this weekend. Maybe even get my P47 too!

alienx
10-05-2006, 12:13 AM
Oh yea, two other things.

I did some calculations last night. At 16.1 oz AUW, this is my lightest wingloading plane to date. It comes in around 9.9 or so. My next lightest wingloading is my Alfa P47 and Alfa Mustang (r.i.p.) at mid 10 oz. So if my math is correct, this baby should be a floater!!

Also, I bought another chow hound decal sheet from HL. I also picked up some decal paper for my inkjet printer, but I may just bail and use the Alfa sheet.

timocharis
10-06-2006, 02:18 AM
Cured the nose heaviness, and even at the adjusted 22.6 ounces, this plane is a (peeyou)ssycat. Very smooth flyer, can slow down nicely. Alien, I wouldn't at all be surprised if yours turns out to be a very polite floater at that weight.

The CG at 55-60mm seems to work out just about right. I think I'm at 55 now, and it probably could go back a hair with no trouble, but I like it where it is.


Dave

alienx
10-06-2006, 03:27 AM
I'm probably balanced close to that too. It's tough to tell with your fingers, but I guess I'm between the 50 and 55mm marks. I cannot wait to get to fly it now. I might have a decent Sunday for weather. We'll see what happens.

I added some GWS kill stickers and some Alfa P47 star and bars decals. I like it so far. I just want one more graphic on the tail I think and I am done. But that's not gonna stop the maiden!!

Andy

Grasshopper
10-06-2006, 03:32 AM
Looks good Alien! Good luck with the maiden.

alienx
10-06-2006, 03:44 AM
Thanks Grasshopper. Hey, I just realized, that's a P51 pilot in the cockpit. I don't know if he's checked out on this bird ...

Grasshopper
10-06-2006, 04:18 AM
As long as he's not a Luftwaffe pilot, he'll be OK.

timocharis
10-06-2006, 09:51 PM
My pilot definitely has his instrument rating!

Dave

alienx
10-06-2006, 11:36 PM
I little bit of the force can't be a bad thing!

alienx
10-08-2006, 03:18 PM
Well, all went as good as I could have hoped for. That is, I didn't crash!! I have to stop building new planes though. I just don't have the nerves for maiden flights!! All-in, I got three very nice 10 minute flights in a gentle breeze this morning. No mishaps!

In no particularly coherent order, here are my maiden flight thoughts.

I like this plane! Period. It is a nice size. I like my E-flite P47 because it is what I would consider a good size. My Alfa's have felt small but I've gotten used to them. This Corsair is right in the middle. So Maybe an ideal size for the somewhat tree-littered grass lot I am doing most of my flying in. Not to mention the fact that you can build and fly this type of plane with a 400XT and a small 1350 mah battery.

My maiden set-up was 400XT, Castle Creations 18 amp ESC, 3 Hitec HS55's, Apex 1350 mah LIPO, and I decided to go with the APC 8x6SF. I've had luck with this in my Alfa's and this motor seems to be generating less power than the MP Jet and other 400 XT I am using, so I didn't feel comfortable with the 9x4.7 (a less powerful prop versus the 8x6).

I launched horizontally at full throttle and the launch was a little weird. Not dangerous, but the plane dipped the left wing and started to dive gently. I corrected it easily with the controls and climbed out.

The first thing I noticed is exactly how sensitive this plane is to inputs ...all inputs! I set my plane to the factory suggestions, balanced at about 53mm instead of back at 60mm, and then set my low rates to 70% aileron and elevator with 30% expo. This is how I set and fly all my other planes with the exception that I generally use 60-65% low rates. But the control throws seemed pretty small even at 70% so that's what I used. By the end of the morning I was using 60% with 40% expo. This is closer to what I wanted to fly like. I actually backed the elevator to 55% after I landed my last flight. My Tx battery ran out after three flights so I'll have to try the 55% next time. This plane is at least as sensitive to elevator inoput as everyone else said it was. Probably the most sensitive of any plane I've flown.

The Corsair flew more like my Alfa P51 than either of my P47's. That is, I had to be attentive all the time. I was afraid to look at my timer at all because the plane needed to be watched. This isn't a bad thing, I guess it is just a function fo the low wing versus the mid-wing on the P47.

Another thing I noticed is that this is not a plane for the ends of the day. I flew at dawn. Even my last flight was mostly shadows on the field even though the sun was starting to rise over the trees. I lost orientation of the plane more times thn I can count on my fingers (literally). Navy blue paint might as well be "shadow." I had to wait for the plane to drift through a gentle turn just to get it to break the optical illusion and I could tell again which direction it was flying. I have a small patch of very bright white on the bottom of the wing between the bends. I could hardly tell it was white with all the shadows. So I may try to get some more graphics on it.

I had some stick-tion in my ailerons when I built this thing. This was nagging me more and more as I got ready to maiden. But it worked out fine. I just have to correct the drift that it causes sometimes by adding a little opposite turn. But it is no worse than correcting from a wind drift. Next time around (knowing I could have still been under or at 17oz) I would have used to aileron servos in the wings.

Oh, the other thing about the wing is the flex. This was also bothering me as the weekend drew closer. The wing itself feels pretty robust out of the box, but when you hang the weight of the fuse and battery between the tips, it feels a little flexy. I was worried that I should have glassed the leading edge to try to firm it up. But it is a non-issue. I think you could probably fold the wing if you try, but with my power set-up I was able to square off some turns with no noticeable groaning or damage. The moral of the story is don't over-think it! Just build it and go fly it!!

As far as handling goes. This plane does fly nicely. But like a P51 again, more than a P47. The one thing that I think I really like about it is that it seems to have the least amount of tendency to climb out of a dive than any other warbird I've flown (almost no tendency at all). Certainly less than my P51, which always had to be flown with down stick coming out of a dive. And even better than my P47's both of which I would consider to have a mild tendency to climb.

I can't say how this plane glides. Given the fact that it doesn't climb from a dive, and the fact that I was overly aggressive on the landing elevator (and probably stalled some speed off), I don't really know how long the power-off glide would be. My P47's and Alfa Mustang were all floaters. And this is my lightest wing loading, so I would think it is in the same class. But I guess it will take a few more flights to get my nerves to allow me to make a smooth approach.

Stalls were no trouble. I never intentionally stall my planes, but when I got a little too much elevator, I pitched the plane into what I would describe as a "pause" in the sky. It just sat there waiting for me to correct the nose-high attitude.

Oh, one other thing I thought was EXTREMELY cool!. On both of my other flights after the maiden, after I got it trimmed, something very cool happened on launch. I launched at about a 30 degree angle, and the plane climbed out in as close to a straight line as could ever be acheived! It looked so cool!! It was like looking at a crosshair made of the wing and tail, the entire time! I didn't have to touch the sticks at all, and the plane never changed course ...not even a little. I would just watch it in aw until it climbed to whatever height I wanted and then I would power back and initiate a turn. I have never seen this before on anything else I've flown. That must be some freak balance of the power set-up and the angle of launch that I stumbled across, right!? My Alfa P47 launches like a dart, but I launch it horizontally, which must in some way be different because it never looked like this Corsair did this morning. At any rate, it was something very cool to see (and confidence inspiring!!).

Well, that's enough rambling I guess. The moral of the story is the maiden was great! And the two flights after were much more relaxing! I just lost my apartment, so I am on hold for any other purchases until I find out where I am going to end up. But I would otherwise be very anxious to build another GWS. It was a very fun project, and I learned a TON of things during the build of this box of plain white foam parts! I really liked the painting process with my cheap airbrsuh set-up, and the little bits I did to finish the foam where fun too. This will be very valuable for my next foam plane (of which I am sure there will be a few!).

Here's a few pics before and after. Anything that looks wet or has some sun on it was AFTER a flight. I wish I could have gotten a video but that's the drawback of sneaking around at dawn like a thief and flying alone in empty school yards and office parks.

Andy

Sky Sharkster
10-09-2006, 01:38 AM
Hello Andy, Great news on the Corsair! I've been following this thread, you have done a good job detailing all the little snags and solutions that came up with this particular model. That's sure to help others. Now, to hear it went so well, Congratulations!
One of the main reasons I built (my first foam Warbird) a GWS Zero is because the Corsair was far and away the most popular GWS Warbird in my club. Guys tried just about all of 'em and virtually everyone agreed the Corsair was the best-flying. I wanted to give them something to chase, and they did! Watching two or three of the gull-wings peel off and tail-chase the Zero is sure to bring a smile to any "Warbird" flyers' face!
Nice job on the build thread, paint job and first flights!
Ron

Grasshopper
10-09-2006, 01:45 AM
Congrats on the Maiden Alien! I figured it would go well for you with all the attention you paid to the details. Aren't maidens a blast??? You know you'll build more. The maidens become slightly less nerve racking the more you do but they always have a little bit of the pucker factor on them. That's what makes it so fun.

Good Job!

alienx
10-09-2006, 02:50 AM
Thanks Ron and Grasshpper! It was truly a nice morning.

alienx
10-09-2006, 05:51 PM
Hey Ron, if you happen to still be checking in, how do you like the zero. I think it is a really classic bird to own but some people were describing a incidence issue with that one. I really want that plane though. The 109 is of less interest to me, and I guess the Spitfire is just another that you have to eventually get but I'm in no hurry. To be honest, I think I would rather have the C130 or the Tiger Moth first. Something big and slow would be fine for a change!! But the Zero seems to be a more unique bird as far as what you see people building and flying.

Thanks again for the comments. I'm sure most of the stuff has already been heavily treaded on before, but I had so many pics, I figured I would write it all out. Kind of helps me clear my head so I can move on to the next plane.

Andy

Sky Sharkster
10-09-2006, 08:14 PM
Hi Andy, Like you, I had read so many negative posts about the GWS Zero I was sure it would be a handful to fly. But as some of the threads went on (mostly on Ezone, this was a couple of years ago) there began to be another trend. As the word got out about the wing incidence (a few attributed the nose pitching-up to lack of downthrust) and flyers began making a correction, some lowered the L.E. in an existing model, others raised the T.E., they began to like the model. As flyers built it with less incidence from the beginning, they loved the flying characteristics!
This made sense to me; The planform of the Zero is almost an exact match for a typical aerobatic plane, with the exception of the short nose. The wing shape and size, tail moment arm, stab size, etc look "right". It is, really, a beautifully-designed aircraft. The big, heavy radial engine dictated the short nose; No problem there.
As an old Free-Flighter (and U-Controller, also) I believe if a plane has good proportions, correct C.G., is trimmed right and the proper incidence, it will fly the way it was intended to. The full-scale Zero has alway been described as "nimble" agile", "quick-turning" etc.
I then found what I believed was the answer to the puzzle; The Zero was one of the first GWS Warbirds, and started life with a stock speed 300 geared motor. It was under-powered, and the designers built in several degrees of incidence to (apparently) make it into a "park" floater. No high-speed issues, because it wouldn't go that fast! Since most modelers (myself included) have a lead foot, the smallest motor they'd start with was a 400 (also offered by GWS, but without changing the incidence of the wing mount) of course the model would "ballon" up on a full-power launch, often not surviving the first flight.
Well, I know this is a long story, sorry about that, but the point is I thought the Zero was worth a try. I removed between 3/32" and 1/8" of foam from the wing bolt mounting area and sanded the wing fillets to match the new angle. I did this by tightly wrapping 200 grit sandpaper around the wings' root area and using the wing as a sanding block. Because of the dihedral, you can only do one side of the fuselage at a time, it's slow but works. It made the fillets smaller (more narrow) but I can live with that.
It turned out to be the best-flying Warbird I've ever owned! It more than kept up with the Corsairs, Mustangs and 109s that the club members were flying and opened a few eyes doing so. It was described by several flyers as a "mini-pattern" plane. I flew it for sport, mock-combat, and whenever I could. It finally met a sad end, victim of a frequency conflict, totaled.
I would recommend the Zero, with the wing incidence removed, 100%.
I flew mine with a Himax 2025 4200, 5.6:1, CC 25A, 3S 2100 Thunder Power LiPo. The upper nose (battery compartment) had to be relieved almost to the back of the cowl to fit the battery and obtain the recommended C.G.
Hope this helps!, again, great job on the Corsair!
Ron

alienx
10-09-2006, 08:26 PM
That's great info. Quite a bunch of planes (and experience) you seem to have. I guess I'm on my way to becoming "seasoned" right!?

I had heard of the 1/8 TE fix, which coincidentally is the first time I heard of the problem to begin with. But what you are saying makes sense. I also heard someone defend the porpoise tendency of my Alfa P51 with the small motor argument. Maybe that is all there ever was to it. But like you said, it is a novel plane. And I think I may have to pick one up before long. You just have to love the price tag on these GWS slopers! If you don't mind (or even actually enjoy) doing all the work, you can get a bunch of planes for the cost of one of another brand. I think the biggest thing for me was the ability to buy the bare minimum of parts, and then add my own creativity to the decoration ...nothing in the box went to waste!

Thanks for the detailed reply.

casedit
10-09-2006, 08:27 PM
Congrats on the corsair...looks good!

alienx
10-09-2006, 08:42 PM
Congrats on the corsair...looks good!
Thanks. After having reglued the tail on my P47 last night (after the post office beat it up), I now for the first time have three planes in the flightline at the same time! Pretty crazy.

Sky Sharkster
10-09-2006, 08:57 PM
Hi Andy, I guess being around airplanes for most of my life has helped! Just about all my planes until now have been built-up balsa, the Zero was only the 2nd foam plane I've owned.
Yes, you're more than seasoned now, you've taken the time to build or modify existing models, which speeds up the learning quite a bit. And you're turning into a demon with that airbrush!
I agree about the GWS Sloper ARFs, they've got to be one of the best values going. I used a slope kit for the Zero and (since most model Zeros are green) painted it all light gray. This was one of the scale color schemes, along with a sort of spotted green/gray design, that I found through research.
Being able to inject my creative impulses into the models is one of the joys of the hobby for me. I don't resent the time it takes, I enjoy it. Sure, ARFs and RTFs are quick but they really don't provide me with the same "jolt" and I usually don't develop any attachment to them.
The next step is "scratch" building, that's so much fun it should be illegal!
Enjoy that Corsair, It's a beauty!
Ron

alienx
10-10-2006, 12:40 AM
Hey Ron, I've heard of scratch building, but if it is what it sounds like, it's way over my head. But I DO have a beautiful P47 kit from Jim Ryan that I am going to have to figure out how to build. It came about a week ago. When I opened the box, I immediately got scared and closed it back up ...seriously! Just looking at all the raw parts in the box made me feel like I was trying to read Chinese. :confused: But I'll be looping back around this board for help when the time is right!!

Grasshopper
10-10-2006, 02:51 AM
Hey Ron, I've heard of scratch building, but if it is what it sounds like, it's way over my head. But I DO have a beautiful P47 kit from Jim Ryan that I am going to have to figure out how to build. It came about a week ago. When I opened the box, I immediately got scared and closed it back up ...seriously! Just looking at all the raw parts in the box made me feel like I was trying to read Chinese. :confused: But I'll be looping back around this board for help when the time is right!!

Hey Andy,

I'll bet a year ago you never would have thought you'd be building and airbrushing foamies either. Looks like you're doing a great job. I'm sure you'd have no problem building a kit. The way you have thought out and planned your ARF assemblies is the first step to a kit. You'll do great. Just take your time and ask lots of questions. You can do it!

Tom

alienx
10-10-2006, 03:04 AM
Hey Andy,

I'll bet a year ago you never would have thought you'd be building and airbrushing foamies either. Looks like you're doing a great job. I'm sure you'd have no problem building a kit. The way you have thought out and planned your ARF assemblies is the first step to a kit. You'll do great. Just take your time and ask lots of questions. You can do it!

Tom

Hey Tom, I'm getting motivated now. I know you will be fielding a lot of these questions ...right!?

Who knows, maybe I'll take the parts out of the box soon. First, I'm determined to finish putting the motor mount in my cub. That plane is begging to be flown. And it's such a simple little bit of fabrication that is holding me up that I should be able to wrap the whole project up in a weekend. I imagine flying the cub now will be like stepping up to bat after swinging two bats for a while!!

timocharis
10-10-2006, 04:32 PM
I have a Zero and agree it's arguably the best-flying of the GWS warbirds. Certainly it is at lower speeds and small fields; like the original, it can outmaneuver anything else easily. It also has incredibly fast and easy stall recovery.

The easiest way to fix the wing incidence problem (and I sincerely regret not using this approach; I raised the rear of the wing) is to raise the leading edge of the horizontal stab. The fit is loose anyway, and it's a breeze to do -- another local flyer did it and the results were as good as mine, with a lot less effort.

Kind of a "duh on me" from my point of view.

I found the Corsair needs no such modification, but seems to profit from filling in the undercamber (same for the Zero. ME 109 does not require this step).


Dave

alienx
10-10-2006, 04:36 PM
seems to profit from filling in the undercamber


What exactly is this?

FlightMedic
10-12-2006, 02:43 AM
Great job alien and congrats! My first project was the GWS Corsair and I learned a lot. I also modified the aleron linkage and put two servos into the wings. Mine is powered by an EFlite outrunner 400 which provides awesome climb and maneuvering. She is VERY responsive and I also have some expo in there to prevent over controlling. I put a lot of white on the underside of mine cause my eyes arent what they used to be and that seems to help. I'm just finishing up my second project, the Hanger9 .60 P51 "Marie" with retracts. Just ordered my batteries today, 2 TP5000-3SX in series. This has been a pricey build but a lot of fun. Can't wait to fly it.

alienx
10-12-2006, 03:41 AM
Thanks a lot! Now that I've had a couple days to replay it in my mind, I can't wait to get back out with the plane and "test" it a little more!

Yours must be pretty quick with that 400 in it. I have a couple planes with the 450 and I don't think you are making much less power than that motor. Sure has to light it up pretty good. And as far as the P51 goes, I am exercising every ounce of restraint I have not to step into a project of that size. What great looking birds H9 has made. Best of luck on it. Let us know how you make out.

Andy

alienx
01-01-2007, 07:34 PM
Happy New Year.

I woke up with a lot of motivation this morning I guess. That and the fact that I crashed my other plane that uses 1350 mah batteries.

I haven't flown the Corsair since the maiden. I wasn't happy with the way the ailerons were behaving due to all the stiction in the torque rod set-up. So I bought another wing and had planned on making a 2 servo set-up out of it. I also bought some Hitec brand servo housings, which I planned to use for a clean mount and some protection of the linkages.

I did all the work this morning but decided to go with the original wing so I wouldn't have to hassle with all the sanding and painting I had already done once. I also glassed the original ailerons so I didn't want to have to do that again either.

It was a pretty simple and surprisingly clean job. I pulled a little extra foam out of the wing when I pulled the single servo out. But it is all cosmetic and hidden when the wing is mounted. I cut the hinges and pulled the ailerons free of the torque rods. Then I snipped the ends of the torque rods and just pulled them back through the channel, leaving the finish in tact.

I was able to add new hinges no problem, and I made a paper template of a HS-55 to cut the pockets. A couple thin razor cuts from the servo to the belly pan let me nibble a shallow servo lead channel with my Xacto knife. I was going to cover the wires with masking tape and then paint the tape, but I just went with some clear scotch tape to keep it simple. Looks fine to me!

Lastly, I used the extra GWS horns from the kit. I cut the outside hole off and sanded the edges to shorten the horn a little in hopes of keeping it from grabbing the ground on a belly land.

That's about it. The wing weighed 121 grams when I started and 131 grams after I finished. The torque rods weighed about 5-6 grams, so that helped me offset the weight of the extra servo and y-harness. So the job cost me bout 0.35oz. But I'm sure it will be well worth it to have better travel of the ailerons. No more inaccurate heading control.

Oh yea, I never used the servo mounts. They weighed a little more than half an ounce, which was going to be tough to accept. But the deal breaker was that they are made for HS-81's not HS-55's.

Andy

max-nix
01-01-2007, 11:48 PM
Hey Ron, I've heard of scratch building, but if it is what it sounds like, it's way over my head. But I DO have a beautiful P47 kit from Jim Ryan that I am going to have to figure out how to build. It came about a week ago. When I opened the box, I immediately got scared and closed it back up ...seriously! Just looking at all the raw parts in the box made me feel like I was trying to read Chinese. :confused: But I'll be looping back around this board for help when the time is right!!

A voyage of a thousand miles starts with a single step.

Good luck with the kit.;)

cyclops2
01-01-2007, 11:57 PM
I modified it somewhat to get the weight down.

Fishing line Pull - Pull R & E.---2-HS-55 servos.
Featherlight rec.
Overdid it with the GWS 25A ESC:) 1/4 oz dead weight.
GWS 2208/18T with a 9" x 5" GWS. in a vise I get the 20 + oz and 35+ mph with a tach reading. ------I hope it speeds up in the air.
3 Saphion LI-ION cells, 1350 ma.-- 4.3oz.

Fly weight is barely 15oz.

I drilled out a Aluminum prop adapter and the prop for a more scale like look.
Which 3 blader looks good for non - running ?

alienx
01-02-2007, 12:22 AM
15 oz would be great in my mind. I am about 16.5 now. My lipos are 3.6 oz. You could ave a little moe weight that way too.

cyclops2
01-02-2007, 01:47 AM
I am 69 and getting forgetfull. I would love to use them.:)

No way could I sleep peacefully.:(

That is some rudder area on the plane.
I wound up mounting the Saphions in the space between the top of the wing and the bottom of the body. Can even change battery weights there and very little effect as it is on the C O G.

How does the hot air from the standard location batteries get out?

alienx
01-02-2007, 02:00 AM
You know, I've not powered a plane so aggresively yet that I have a problem. I've had a couple come out of one plane or another warm, but none hot.

I hope we all look back on lipos in a year and laugh at how bad the technology used to be!!:)

alienx
04-10-2007, 02:53 AM
I hate to bring back an old thread, but I've done a fair amount of work in the evolution of my F4U. I looked back in my book and I only have 6 flights on this plane. I was surprised, but it has taken a lot of work to get it where I wanted it.

I started with the torque rods and never really liked the way it handled with them. So I pulled the torque rods and put in two wing servos. But I put them in the bottom of the wing and pulled an aileron off on my second belly landing.

So I finally got around to pulling them servos out of the bottom and putting them in the top. It doesn't look half as bad as I thought it would. And now there is nothing but smooth belly to land on!!

I also swapped the motor to a cheap United Hobbies 1150Kv motor because I had used the Corsair motor in my new Spitfire. The UH motor makes 145 watts or so at 12.6 amps (13 amp continuous rating on the motor) using an 8x4E prop. This is about 23 watts more than the 400XT with an 8x6SF was making.

I have never flown a motor that wasn't sub-1000 Kv, so this is a depature for me. I would like to have used the 8x3.8SF, but on the bench I could tell the motor was cranking. I guess that's the higher Kv and lower prop pitch.. So I was afraid the slow flyer would be over-spun.

That's it. The AUW with the servo mods and some more paint and filler is now 16.75oz (138 watts/lb.).

Here's a couple pics for the record (and one of something I am excited to have up next:) ).

Andy

arck
04-12-2007, 06:59 PM
Looks good Andy, enjoy it,,
wm

alienx
04-12-2007, 07:01 PM
Hey Werner, Long time!! Good to hear you're still out there. You flying? How that job?

arck
04-13-2007, 05:08 AM
Hi Andy, I'm still here, and yes I'm flying but all my electric staff are on the wall because here is too windy over 10 knots and the is very hot about 40 degrees, so I switched to glow in the meantime, with sadness of not being able to fly my favorite planes, but I cannot make anything for the time being, I will be here for two years,,,
I left my v diamond in Lima and when I travel over there every two months I take advantage to fly him, what I do every week is to load the batteries to maintain them protected,,,,I lost one last month,,,

alienx
04-13-2007, 03:09 PM
Good to know you're still flying!! You'll get back to the electrics soon enough. Just think of all the new planes that will be available that you can build by then!! You may have to quit your job just to catch up on the planes!!:D

arck
04-13-2007, 04:30 PM
Good to know you're still flying!! You'll get back to the electrics soon enough. Just think of all the new planes that will be available that you can build by then!! You may have to quit your job just to catch up on the planes!!:D
What about your warbirds, did you made a video of them?,,,,
Don't recall if I told you that I lost my spitfire, he crashed in the air with a Flatout (&^%$) before I came here, all I have is the wing in one piece,,,,I have in mind to build a sleepso or a fan trainer, there are small, very fast and cheap,,,,the plans are posted in internet,,,,,

diablo
04-13-2007, 05:04 PM
Any chance for a landing gear on this plane? I fly on pavement, and no way to glide that baby in on pavement LoL

alienx
04-13-2007, 05:54 PM
Any chance for a landing gear on this plane? I fly on pavement, and no way to glide that baby in on pavement LoL
They are designed with landing gear (not the slope kit). But if you buy the regular one with the motor, it comes with gear. The wheels are those funky wire-wheel GWS ones but you can swap them for some Dubro or the like.

The wing in both kits has slots for the gear mounts. I filled them with foam and spackle on mine so you can't see them.

alienx
04-13-2007, 05:57 PM
What about your warbirds, did you made a video of them?,,,,
Don't recall if I told you that I lost my spitfire, he crashed in the air with a Flatout (&^%$) before I came here, all I have is the wing in one piece,,,,I have in mind to build a sleepso or a fan trainer, there are small, very fast and cheap,,,,the plans are posted in internet,,,,,

Werner,

I have a spitfire thread and a P40 thread on this page someplace that have links. But I have to warn you, the video is very hard on the eyes. That's the best I could do. In the spring when I get better weather, I'll keeop training my video guy so we can see some better videos.

I think I remember tthe Spitfire going in. That was a while ago before you left I think. Too bad to see a good plane go to waste!!

Stick with it and we'll compare notes when you get on-line!!

diablo
04-13-2007, 05:58 PM
can you buy just the landing gear seperate?


They are designed with landing gear (not the slope kit). But if you buy the regular one with the motor, it comes with gear. The wheels are those funky wire-wheel GWS ones but you can swap them for some Dubro or the like.

The wing in both kits has slots for the gear mounts. I filled them with foam and spackle on mine so you can't see them.

alienx
04-13-2007, 06:02 PM
can you buy just the landing gear seperate?
You get the mounts and the plastic wheel stops for the axles in the parts bag. You could bend your own wires, or I'm sure somebody has the gear for sale. I think I got a spare wing from BPhobbies for a fair price. Check them out. If they are the ones I'm thinking about, they had a lot of spare parts listed for sale. If you really get stuck, I may have a set from my Spitfire that I could give up.

afrotc19
04-17-2007, 03:51 PM
I am in the process of rebuilding my old gws corsair. I made a birdcage canopy out of a vick's cough syrup bottle. That was Barmonkey's ingenious dea. I am also putting in rotating retracts made by zbrubaker from rcgroups.com. I am going to put the bomb drop from hobby lobby on the underside of the fuselageand maybe drop tanks or rockets on the wings from darehobby.com. It should look nice. Might take a while.

alienx
04-17-2007, 04:10 PM
I'm sure everyone would like to see some pics and details!!:D

afrotc19
04-20-2007, 02:44 PM
It might take a while. I'll try to post some pics.

alienx
04-22-2007, 11:49 PM
Well, I flew the Corsair with the new motor. I hated it. Even though it was making almost 20 more watts, the fact that I had to down-prop from an 8x6SF to an 8x4E just took all the speed out of the plane (or the thrust).

I guess you really can't figure these things out on the bench. Thats good or bad I guess. As soon as I launched the plane, I knew that I was going to swap the motor back. It just felt like it was barely staying aloft (even though I'm sure it was plenty fast to not actually stall). So today I flew it again with the 400XT and 8x6SF. I love it again.

Anybody want that other motor cheap ...:)

afrotc19
04-23-2007, 04:11 AM
maybe Ill take you up on that offer. What type of motor?

yorcram
04-23-2007, 05:21 AM
Did you use a wattmeter to test the motor? I have read that a lot of the cheap motors don't work at the claimed rated output.
However, the motor may be fine still, you may want to try a differnt prop on that motor. For speed you want a prop that gives a high pitch speed, not high thrust. Higher thrust is better on high drag planes (biplanes) or for 3d. Someone with more motor knowledge may be able to clarify this.

Cheers,
Marc

alienx
04-23-2007, 02:00 PM
This is the motor.

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3732

I did use a wattmeter. I propped it to pull as close to 13A as I could get. It spins too fast to use the APC SF props, so I had to go with the APC E. I really don't like those props. I much prefer to fly (or the flight characteristics of) a slow flyer prop on a direct drive motor.

With this one, I had to trade down the 8x6SF I like on the 400XT, for an 8x4E. I think the smaller pitch and generally thinner blade, just made the plane feel lifeless to me. I guess I could have propped up a little and just risked cookign the motor, but there really wasn't a need. I had 400XT's at home, and I know I like that coombo, so I swapped the motor back out Saturday night and flew Sunday on the old combo. Very happy with it, even though the plane is approaching 17 oz. It could still pull through a nice sized loop without any real trouble.

afrotc19
04-25-2007, 03:46 PM
would that other motor work with a fs300 3 bladed prop?

alienx
04-25-2007, 03:52 PM
would that other motor work with a fs300 3 bladed prop?

I can't really answer that. I did a post in another section about using 3-4 blade props but it seemed like a hotly debated topic. Intuitively though, I would think a lower KV motor might be better suited to a multiblade prop. To be honest though, I'm not even sure on that.

afrotc19
04-25-2007, 04:51 PM
ok.thanks

Tinman
04-25-2007, 05:04 PM
subscribing

great thread!

PaperAirplane
11-10-2009, 01:09 AM
Would a 400xt work?

alienx
11-10-2009, 02:04 AM
Wow, this is an old thread. If you are talking about the motor in the plane, I use the 400XT in all my GWS planes (and a couple other!!).

Lieutenant Loughead
11-10-2009, 02:21 AM
Yes, a 400XT would work, but it would be a bit underpowered. Check out the Turnigy 2217 Brushless Outrunner Motor on my web site, as an alternative:

http://karglusa.com/motors.aspx

Really good power, low amp draw, and long flights. My grandmother used to say, "You don't really need the power of a V8, but it's nice to have it under the hood for emergencies." The Turnigy 2217 is the same kind of deal -- it can get you out of a lot of bad situations!

alienx
11-10-2009, 02:27 AM
I usually try to stay out of these subjective discussion, but I can't see how anyone could call a 16 ounce plane underpowered at 125 watts. It will do big loops from level, pretty high hammerheads, and can be launched underhand. You can add the V8 if you like though.

Just another opinion.

PaperAirplane
11-10-2009, 02:49 AM
You both have good views. The Turnigy could be useful on another plane. Thanks to both. I just realized how old this thread was. Wow.

cyclops2
12-12-2009, 07:16 PM
The wing tips touch at the bottom of a loop.

unitfreebie
04-28-2011, 09:33 PM
:) Hi all... I know this is an old thread but really couldn't find anything newer to ask the question.

I have a NIB GWS Corsair and want to 3D fly it so the question is can anyone tell me or point me in the right direction on selecting a Brushless Motor, Prop, and Lipo battery for the power system; and then what or how much to modify the area and throw of the rudder, elevator and ailerons?

Thanks for any help... :ws:

tarheal63
05-30-2011, 06:49 AM
Has anyone ever noticed the front of the GWS Corsair box? It shows a picture of Robert Conrad as Pappy Boyington. I wonder if that is copyright infringement? Well I guess since it comes out of China, things like that really don't matter. But anyway, I would like to send out props to "greatplanes" He sold me a NIB GWS Corsair and shipped it FAST. I can't wait to build it. I am going to use dual aileron servos, mod the landing gear forward and use foam wheels. Mount my TP 2409-12T with a 25A esc sporting a 1350 3S Li. This one came painted. I will just glass elevators and ailerons, but I will coat it with WBPU. Look forward to flying this one. I think my power plant is a little over the top, but, I happen to have it laying around.
Again thank you greatplane for a "Great Plane" Pun intended.....

rcav8r1964
09-04-2011, 06:49 AM
Reading this got me excited so I went out and bought a GWS Corsair too. I'm going to put a P&W 4360 in it. I wonder if a 10" prop would be too big for that.

wolfewinde
09-05-2011, 01:47 AM
The trick to making a GWS bird fly well it to keep it as light as you can. Especially their warbirds.

Wolfe

tarheal63
10-22-2011, 09:20 PM
I realize this is an old thread, but I didn't really want to start a new one. I maidened my corsair today and it wasn't bad. I have a 2409-12t with an 8x6 apc on it. I have gear on it and did a ROG takeoff, it needed about 12ft before it shot off of the ground. I had a 1300mah 25c 3s on board. I beleive I am still tail heavy though. It shot straight up, but was very squirly to control. I added clay to the cowl but I don't think enough. Do these models fly better nose heavy? I could put a heavier battery in, but I would like to use the battery I used today, would you recommend more clay? I know these things fly on rails when they are dialed in. What is the best cg for it?

wolfewinde
10-22-2011, 09:36 PM
Grats on the maiden. They do fly well once they are dialed in. I don't currently have one, but on most GWS birds you need to move the battery as far forward as you can - any chance you can do that if you cut away some foam? If not, then more clay.

Wolfe

tarheal63
10-22-2011, 10:45 PM
I have cut away as much foam as I can safely do, I could fit a 2200 in there if I need to though. Plenty of space. I will add clay to make uf the difference.

icarus46
10-31-2011, 07:00 AM
Nice job alienx. I like the idea of glassing the control sufaces. I may do that to the Eflite p-47 eventually. A lot of good stuff in your build thread!:cool:

tarheal63
11-05-2011, 09:54 PM
woot, finally got my CG dialed in straight and proper. Flew today with little to no breeze and this is a great flying plane. AUW of it is 20.4 oz. with a HURC 2410-12D, gws 9x5, 1300 mah 3S, and I have glassed the control surfaces and done WBPU on the whole thing. I did a landing gear mod to prevent nose overs and I beleive it might be my favorite plane now, well next to my P-47.