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alienx
10-10-2006, 04:46 PM
OK, some of you have inadvertantly prodded me into wanting to attempt my first kit build. The kit (and I already own it) is the Jim Ryan P47. I will be attempting to build the razorback version. I absolutely love the way the finished kit looks. And I bought it because it is sheeted, which I think is a must for a real scale look.

Here is my current experience: NONE!

So I opened the box and got scared and closed it. All the parts and the plans were neatly wedged into a small box. I was afraid to take anything out for fear that I couldn't get everything back in the box. So I closed it and put it off to the side.

I don't want to overwhelm anyone (or this post) with a ton of questions, but patient people will be teaching me how to build from a kit for the first time. Maybe that means I need to learn a lot or maybe it means that it isn't really going to be that difficult. I may just have some questions along the way.

So to keep it a little focused, is there any "must knows" before I take the parts out??? And maybe someone could tell me an kind of overview of what this project might require to get it done. You know, kind of put it in context for me. So far I only have about half a dozen foam and balsa arf's under my belt, so any general comparisons to that type of build would be great Again, I have no frame of reference for this.

Thanks to anyone that has the patience to try to stick with me and keep me going in the right direction!!

Andy

Grasshopper
10-10-2006, 08:07 PM
So you're gonna built a kit plane? Good Deal!

The satisfaction you get from building one from a kit is unbelievable. You think you puckered up when you maidened your Corsair? Wait till you spend weeks and weeks or even months building one and then maiden it. It's sooooooo cool!(after your knees stop knocking together).

The first things I can think of on building a kit is first take a deep breath and tell yourself you can do it. Most of all, TAKE YOUR TIME. Don't try to rush it. Read the directions several times before you start. You'll need a nice size flat surface and a building board. I use the back side of a 2' X 4' suspended ceiling tile. They're great for sticking pins in and are flat and cheap. You can get them at Lowes, Home Depot or most any lumber yard. I like to find one that has a relatively smooth texture on the side that would normally show so it sits flat on your work surface. Always put wax paper over your plans so the work doesn't stick to them.

Work slowly and dry fit everything before you glue. Also take extra care to make sure you are building the tail fins and wing flat. It can be easy to build in a warp that is difficult to get out later. I also like to have all the components I'm going to use prior to starting. There's nothing more frustrating to me than getting to a point like fitting servo trays or motor mounts and I don't have them yet. If you start to get frustrated, walk away from it for a while and come back later.

You'll do great with it. Ask lots of questions, post lots of pictures and most importantly, HAVE FUN!

Keep us posted.

Tom

alienx
10-10-2006, 11:27 PM
So you're gonna built a kit plane? Good Deal!

The satisfaction you get from building one from a kit is unbelievable. You think you puckered up when you maidened your Corsair? Wait till you spend weeks and weeks or even months building one and then maiden it. It's sooooooo cool!(after your knees stop knocking together).

The first things I can think of on building a kit is first take a deep breath and tell yourself you can do it. Most of all, TAKE YOUR TIME. Don't try to rush it. Read the directions several times before you start. You'll need a nice size flat surface and a building board. I use the back side of a 2' X 4' suspended ceiling tile. They're great for sticking pins in and are flat and cheap. You can get them at Lowes, Home Depot or most any lumber yard. I like to find one that has a relatively smooth texture on the side that would normally show so it sits flat on your work surface. Always put wax paper over your plans so the work doesn't stick to them.

Work slowly and dry fit everything before you glue. Also take extra care to make sure you are building the tail fins and wing flat. It can be easy to build in a warp that is difficult to get out later. I also like to have all the components I'm going to use prior to starting. There's nothing more frustrating to me than getting to a point like fitting servo trays or motor mounts and I don't have them yet. If you start to get frustrated, walk away from it for a while and come back later.

You'll do great with it. Ask lots of questions, post lots of pictures and most importantly, HAVE FUN!

Keep us posted.

Tom

That's exactly what I needed to get started! I wasn't even sure if there were instructions in the box. But now I am going to open the box and look at all the parts and I'll be back with some more educated questions next time.

At least this will be a build that might be of more interest to everyone. It seems like a less known bird. And I think we have converted a few in here to the P47 side too!!

Thanks for the start.

Sky Sharkster
10-11-2006, 01:51 AM
Hi Andy, Tom's advice is right on, that's the way to start. Many kits have a "Bill of Materials", a list of what should be in the box, and another list of "necessary items" like servos, motor, glue, etc. Check that everything's there, it usually is.
One of my favorite tools for kit building is the humble emery board, or fingernail file. Many times it's perfect for the too-snug spar slot or one "swipe" to level out a rib. A sanding block is big and bulky, more of a finishing tool.
Building goes a lot faster and smoother if you have an uninterruped "block" of time. When I try to squeeze in an hour here, 1/2 hour there, seems like I just about get the tools out, figure out where I left off last time, unclog the CA and it's time to quit. If that's all your schedule will allow, OK, but you'll find you get a lot more done in one Saturday afternoon than a week of "1 hour" chunks.
An exception to this is when you know you're going to be 'glassing or using slow-drying adhesives; I try to arrange this so I'm getting it applied just before bedtime (or Work). You've likely already figured this out anyway.
The old carpenter's motto of "measure twice, cut once" really applies here; Trial fit everything before you glue or sand. Dry fit every piece to it's mates and make adjustment first. Glue last.
If you have a question or problem, holler here! I know Tom's on a lot, I'm on every day at least once. Glad to help!
Good Luck!
Ron

alienx
10-11-2006, 02:32 AM
Ex-ARFer ...not yet!!

Good tips. The only thing I have really learned on my own is to walk away when you need to, and don't rush to squeeze in a few minutes of work. I am looking forward to this build now. I'll put up some pictures and probably a few more questions once I get a look in the box.

Stay tuned.

alienx
10-11-2006, 02:25 PM
Fellas,

I did open the box last night, and to my surprise, there was a pretty nice instruction sheet. That's a nice place to start. It did list some suggested hard parts to get like horns and music wire and whatnot. It was very specific about the parts. I know there are a dozen ways to skin this cat, but I think what I am going to do is order the exact parts suggested, so that like one of you mentioned, I have everything I need before I start the build. Then I am going to clear all my other projects off the table so I can focus on one (this one!). This also means that I can order some nice Master Airscrew props that I've been wanting to try!!

When I get to that point, I'll be back around with more questions. I think I am going to commit to this in the way I need to to actually have a chance at success. I envision it as my all-Winter project!! What a beautiful Spring maiden it could be!!

Thanks. Andy

egras14
10-13-2006, 01:32 PM
Good luck on your first kit build.Patience will reward you,TAKE YOUR TIME!.
One thing I like to do is make a copy of the plans,then cut the different sections and use those to build on.You will find if you use CA it sometimes bleeds through the wax paper this saves the originals.I also hang the full plans on the wall in front of my work bench for reference.

alienx
10-13-2006, 01:43 PM
Good luck on your first kit build.Patience will reward you,TAKE YOUR TIME!.
One thing I like to do is make a copy of the plans,then cut the different sections and use those to build on.You will find if you use CA it sometimes bleeds through the wax paper this saves the originals.I also hang the full plans on the wall in front of my work bench for reference.

Thanks!!

How do you do that? Copy the plans, that is. It sounds great. nd I've seen other people suggest blowing them up to make a larger plane. But I guess you can't do it on a photo copier right!?

Andy

egras14
10-13-2006, 02:03 PM
I use Kinkos to copy and enlarge my plans.

alienx
10-13-2006, 03:28 PM
Excellent news. They are right down the road from me.

What happens when you actually enlarge a plan? I duess you have to tweak certain things, like the size of the slots for the stringers or ribs or whatever, right? And how difficult is it to make teh parts from raw wood versus teh laser-cut wood in the kits?

In my mind, this plane I am interesed in building should be in the 40" area. Or art least I would love to have the same plane in a size that big. So maybe someday I will have to try this enlargement. That is, if I make out OK with this build and want to try another.

egras14
10-13-2006, 09:30 PM
To be honest I enlarge so I can see some of the smaller details better.Someone who is a scratch builder would be more qualified to answer those questions.

Sky Sharkster
10-14-2006, 12:45 AM
Hi Andy, it's not too hard to scale up plans, but the problem you mentioned does occur. If you double up the size, the spars and stringers will usually end up being another common size (if they were 1/8", now they'll be 1/4"). But when you scale up 27%, the strip wood will come out some weird size and you usually just adjust the slots to the next larger "stock" size. After you've built a few kits you'll develop a feel for the wood sizes needed for a particular application.
Equally important to wood size is density and grain. This is another whole subject in itself, I have some good links for this, will look for'em.
Once you "scratch" build a model, the entire spectrum of models is open to you. Any type, size, construction method, all kinds of options.
Then you'll get published in a couple of major magazines! Fame, untold riches, Limos, factory endorsements.
But for now, good luck with the kit!
Ron

alienx
10-14-2006, 12:54 AM
Hi Andy, it's not too hard to scale up plans, but the problem you mentioned does occur. If you double up the size, the spars and stringers will usually end up being another common size (if they were 1/8", now they'll be 1/4"). But when you scale up 27%, the strip wood will come out some weird size and you usually just adjust the slots to the next larger "stock" size. After you've built a few kits you'll develop a feel for the wood sizes needed for a particular application.
Equally important to wood size is density and grain. This is another whole subject in itself, I have some good links for this, will look for'em.
Once you "scratch" build a model, the entire spectrum of models is open to you. Any type, size, construction method, all kinds of options.
Then you'll get published in a couple of major magazines! Fame, untold riches, Limos, factory endorsements.
But for now, good luck with the kit!
Ron

See, I learned that there are stock sizes! I guess I figured you just went with whatever the smaller kit would have used. Man, there is a lot to this building. But believe it or not, I stumbled across another Bearcat kit someplace that I already like. That's the beauty of building I guess. It opens up more options for cool planes. And this kit was also sheeted, so it must look pretty good when completed.

I have the motor mount finally in my Cub. So all I have to do is actually center the motor, and then I am ready to button it up and see how bad the balance is. I can also finally get a AUW so I'll know what to expect for performance. Then, that's it. Nothing in the way of the P47!!

Thanks guys.

alienx
10-18-2006, 02:20 PM
Is there a "remedial" kit that I should start building as my first kit?

I was reading some of the build threads in the kit build section over at RCU yesterday, and I was surprised to see that some kits appear to come with actual instructions. I guess mine has an instruction sheet or two, but it seemed to be more like build tips than anything else. But either way, I got to thinking, maybe there is an "easy" kit out there. Something that will give me a better chance of success.

I would love to find a beginner P47, or some other mid-wing would be OK. As long as it's a sheeted design and in the 36-42" span range, I think I would take a look. I even considered a smaller Guillows kit, but I know that if I build something, I won't want it to sit on display. I'll want to fly it. And the Guillows models inject another ripple ...conversion to RC.

Well, I was just thinking about this next project and was wondering if there is a smarter way to go about learning kit building.

Any thoughts?

Andy

egras14
10-18-2006, 02:39 PM
Andy see if you can find these two books written by Harry Higley
There Are No Secretes
Master Modeling
There is a wealth of information that will guide you through this project.There are plenty of pictures and clear simple instructions to guide you.

Amos

alienx
10-18-2006, 02:48 PM
Andy see if you can find these two books written by Harry Higley
There Are No Secretes
Master Modeling
There is a wealth of information that will guide you through this project.There are plenty of pictures and clear simple instructions to guide you.

Amos

Good tip ...PICTURES!!!

Gonna check them out. Thanks.

Sky Sharkster
10-18-2006, 03:05 PM
Hi Andy, I don't blame you for having second thoughts about committing to your first build without step-by-step instruction. I just assumed the kit had full directions.
Here's my suggestion; Take a look at this and see what you think;
http://www.dumasestore.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=50_60
About 1/2 way down, right-hand side...a P-47! 17-1/2" W.S., $25.00. I've built several of the Dumas kits, they are light years better than a Guillows kit or most anyone else's, for that matter. Perfectly laser-cut, great wood and best of all, 2 sets of plans, one to actually build on, the other with isometrics of all the tricky parts and details for finishing. A comprehensive "glue A to "b" sheet, 2 pages, (17" x 11") of help. I cover them with SoLite, almost as light as tissue and no paint.
Now, as far as making a static model vs converting it to R/C, who says it has to be R/C? Put the rubber motor in it, wind it up and let'er rip! Don't worry, it won't go too far, it's a sport/scale Warbird. You'll learn about trimming and flight adjustments, possibly even a bit about repairing, always a valuable skill. For much longer flights, FAI Model Supply
http://www.faimodelsupply.com/FAI4-winders.htm
sell a winder for $8.95, or you can use a hand drill. Stretch the motor out 3-4 times it's normal length and really pack in the turns.
If you don't want to fly rubber power, the COX/Estes Micro's have a power system that works, the GWS IPS motors work (direct drive) and Fiego + Medusa Research both sell 12mm b/L motors.
So, for $30.00 or so, you can try building a model that looks real, flys without another $200.00 of electronics and won't end up sitting on a shelf.
Just an idea!
Ron

alienx
10-18-2006, 03:24 PM
Hi Andy, I don't blame you for having second thoughts about committing to your first build without step-by-step instruction. I just assumed the kit had full directions.
Here's my suggestion; Take a look at this and see what you think;
http://www.dumasestore.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=50_60
About 1/2 way down, right-hand side...a P-47! 17-1/2" W.S., $25.00. I've built several of the Dumas kits, they are light years better than a Guillows kit or most anyone else's, for that matter. Perfectly laser-cut, great wood and best of all, 2 sets of plans, one to actually build on, the other with isometrics of all the tricky parts and details for finishing. A comprehensive "glue A to "b" sheet, 2 pages, (17" x 11") of help. I cover them with SoLite, almost as light as tissue and no paint.
Now, as far as making a static model vs converting it to R/C, who says it has to be R/C? Put the rubber motor in it, wind it up and let'er rip! Don't worry, it won't go too far, it's a sport/scale Warbird. You'll learn about trimming and flight adjustments, possibly even a bit about repairing, always a valuable skill. For much longer flights, FAI Model Supply
http://www.faimodelsupply.com/FAI4-winders.htm
sell a winder for $8.95, or you can use a hand drill. Stretch the motor out 3-4 times it's normal length and really pack in the turns.
If you don't want to fly rubber power, the COX/Estes Micro's have a power system that works, the GWS IPS motors work (direct drive) and Fiego + Medusa Research both sell 12mm b/L motors.
So, for $30.00 or so, you can try building a model that looks real, flys without another $200.00 of electronics and won't end up sitting on a shelf.
Just an idea!
Ron

Man, this is brutal! Now I'm going to start collecting small rubber powered models too. You just can't escape this sickness!

They have ALL kinds of cool stuff there. I like the P47, But I also like that Wildcat, AND they have a 30" Bearcat, which is another plane I know I would have had to have sooner or later. I think you are absolutely correct about the suggestion, but now I am standing on the edge of the cliff about to leap into another all-consuming facet of the hobby. Wasn't it bad enough I was going to break down and give in to the kit side of the RC hobby!!? This is just terrible ...

alienx
10-18-2006, 07:59 PM
Thanks fellas. I am now the proud owner of a beautiful Dumas F8F-2 Bearcat kit with a 30" span, AND a copy of Master Modeling. The Dumas definitely seems to be a smarter way to start.

egras14
10-18-2006, 08:39 PM
:d

K CLOSE
11-04-2006, 06:55 PM
Now, as far as making a static model vs converting it to R/C, who says it has to be R/C? Put the rubber motor in it, wind it up and let'er rip! Don't worry, it won't go too far, it's a sport/scale Warbird. You'll learn about trimming and flight adjustments, possibly even a bit about repairing, always a valuable skill. For much longer flights, FAI Model Supply
http://www.faimodelsupply.com/FAI4-winders.htm
sell a winder for $8.95, or you can use a hand drill. Stretch the motor out 3-4 times it's normal length and really pack in the turns.

I could not agree with Sky more. There is just something wonderful about rubber power. I started as a kid with my personal guide being none other than Earl Van Gorder (a friend of my Dads). The pleathora of kits becomes a addiction unto itself - Van had a two bay garage FULL of shelves packed with kits. I still have some 30's and early 40's kits he gave me. I'll never build them, just seeing them on the bookcase makes me smile.
One small suggestion. Build a WW1 high wing or Bipe first. Low wing fighters are fun, but rubber WW1 stuff is (a) more scale looking and (b) tends to glide better w/o power. The make repro's of the old E-Z build kits now, and I could not think of a better first stick and tissue model. The first time you launch one, watch it climb out and then glide on forever is just shear magic. And the lessons learned about trimming CG ect. are invaluable. I, for one, think that the time spent building a small rubber plane will go towards a successful R/C build more than anything else ever could.
Arf's help take the heartbreak out of the learning curve, and definately have there place. But stick building opens the doors to anything you ever wanted to fly. Anyone else out there flying a R/C F2G Super Corsair ( My icon is the '49 Thompson trophy winner ) ?

Cheers

alienx
11-05-2006, 12:50 PM
Ah, I suspect you are correct. But I bought this Dumas kit as a "beginner" kit for the building experience. After reading the freeflight threads, it seems like I need a beginner free flight kit now. I keep ratcheting back my starting point!! But I can't do that. If I build it and it crashes, so be it. I just want to build it and fly it. Then it will likely be a gift to someone who can appreciate it. It IS such a cool plane though! And at 30", it's going to be no joke!! The plans are pretty large.

alienx
11-22-2006, 03:33 AM
Well, still no apartment, so no planes and no building going on. It's too bad too because the weather has turned. Time to dig into some indoor projects.

I was way out-matched on the P47 (I conceed!!), so I gave up and found someone to build it. He's a nice guy living out in Washington state. Here is the build thread if anyone is interested.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5006233/tm.htm

We swapped a ton of emails and are both razorback enthusiasts, so I think it will be a fun build project for both of us. I am going to put the paint on (big help huh!?).

I am still planning to do the Bearcat myself, and am actually anxious to get started. I juts have to settle into a new home and then I'm off to the races.

That's it for now though.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Andy

Grasshopper
11-22-2006, 03:47 AM
It looks like it's coming along pretty fast. Oughta look great when it's done. Make sure to keep us updated.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too!

Sky Sharkster
11-22-2006, 11:26 AM
Hi Andy, your friend Roger has a great build thread going! I enjoyed the step-by-step process, it will help anyone trying a "skinned" fuselage quite a bit. He's right, it's not that hard to sheet curved surfaces with balsa once you wet the wood, it becomes very flexible across the grain.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Ron

MacMyers
11-22-2006, 02:00 PM
If you want to try to blow up your own use
http://homokaasu.org/rasterbator/

It'll print out on letter sheets like a puzzle. :)