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Voyager2lcats
10-16-2006, 10:55 PM
Hey, I just thought it might be interesting to add my observations on the RTF Estes P-47. My wife purchased the kit for me last year for $30.00 at WalMart. It looks great- all silver, yellow nose (w/ black & white checkered decals), black and white victory stripes on fuse and wings, and stars and bars insignia. I tried flying it and broke all of the props (total of 3) without really flying it (dove into ground immediately after engine turn on). The "throttle" is on/off only. Only control is an electromagnet rudder that may or may not work (never really got it airborne). After the crashes it definitely didn't work. So now I am converting it to RC (GWS R4PII receiver, GWS ICS50F ESC, Blue Arrow BA-TS-3.6 micro servos, Electrifly 7.2 volt 220 mAh NiMh battery, and GWS CN12-1X312C motor [IPS-B-based motor). It glided beautifully in its previous incarnation, so I will need to seriously balance this little bird before flying it. I don't know the C-of-G location, but I am pretty sure someone has that information on this site. I will post pics of it once I have it painted in new livery.

Sky Sharkster
10-16-2006, 11:39 PM
Hello Voyager, the gear you're putting into the P-47 sounds like it will work well. Are these the same size (20" wingspan) as the Cox micros? There's a bunch of those flying here, some have upgraded to the Fiego 12mm brushless and LiPos. Pocket rockets!
Don't know the exact formula for that model's C.G. but 28%-30% of the wing center chord would be a reasonable place to start. Some tall grass and a good throw, maybe bring some modelers clay to make fine adjustments and when it's set the way you want it, move the battery (or whatever you can) to obtain the same C.G. without the clay. Can you tell I'm an old Free Flighter?
Good Luck with the P 47, these tiny models are too much fun!
Ron

Voyager2lcats
10-17-2006, 05:16 AM
Hey Ron, thanks for the information. I have been eyeing that Fiego/Feigao 1208436 for some time (aprox. $33.00). Very nice. I'll need a brushless ESC as well, won't I? I am hoping that with proper placement, I won't need to add weight. That might be a dream. Anyway, the model is the same size as its Cox cousins. This Thunderbolt has 20.5" wings (no dihedral- I am adding pull-pull ailerons). I kept the stock engine (same size as an electric toothbrush motor), but probably won't use it- yet. I guess it's time to buy a nice digital scale, eh? I have seen some good tips today on making a CG device from a 4 x 4 board and two pencils to balance my plane. I will definitely do that. I can't wait to watch a silver blur go flying by me!
Bob

P.S. Any recommendations on propellers?

Sky Sharkster
10-18-2006, 02:30 AM
Hi Bob, the Fiego B/L will be a good upgrade for the "Micro" Warbirds, Medusa Research also make a 12mm B/L motor that has had good reviews. http://www.medusaproducts.com/motors/012.htm
The flyers I saw with the Cox Micros were using the same 3" x 2" or 3" x 3" orange GWS props that are recommended for the IPS motors, of course these are all direct drive. Apparently someone makes a tiny prop adapter for the shaft so you could try different props but I haven't been able to track down the site. There's also some beautiful little outrunners at Sykhooks and bsdmicrorc but they're fairly expensive.
http://www.bsdmicrorc.com/products.cfm?catID=10037
http://www.skyhooks.ca/WMotors.htm#BL1D
Yes, you'll need a brushless ESC, 5 amps should be plenty. I'd try flying with the brushed motors first, see if you even need to upgrade. Just about all run 2 cells LiPos, 7.4 volts seem to be a good match.
A good quality scale will help you no matter what planes you fly, every bit of weight you can remove helps!
Good Luck with the P 47, let us know how it flys!
Ron

Voyager2lcats
10-18-2006, 03:25 AM
Ron, that is great advice. Thank you for the suggestions on propellers! I will take your advice and run with a brushed motor to get accustomed to the plane's flight characteristics. I have read very nice comments from other posters on the Medusa 12 mm B/L motor. It will probably be a few weeks before I purchase everything I need/want for this P-47. I have a GWS transmitter, so no problem there. I don't want to cannibalize my Piper Cub, so the Thunderbolt is a hangar queen right now! I will make a small build post (yes, with pictures) when I get the chance. First thing is to price a nice postal scale.

Voyager2lcats
10-20-2006, 06:40 PM
I keep meaning to take pictures of my modification build of the Estes P-47, but I keep putting it off because it's late and I'm building. So, in the meantime I'll just say what I've done: 1) Fabricated a fixed rudder from parts of old rudder, 2) Converted fixed elevators to working condition (piano wire and tape), 3) Cut out all of the inside: circuit board, battery, engine, removed canopy and foam under it, 4) Converted ailerons to working condition, 5) Gorilla glued wings to belly pan after modifying with thin block panel of styro, and 6) Added leading edge to wings by white-gluing 1/8" bamboo dowels along entire front of wings and tape+glue+oval styrofoam to wing tips (I will definitely show this). I am using the Fan-tastic Models AT-6 as my inspiration for this. Someone else did this and posted the pics in the thread on Cox warbirds, to which I am eternally grateful. Hobbico deserves some praise also, since they posted the modification instructions for their free flight models to RC on the Web. I have happily used some of their suggestions as well. Learning is a great thing!!

Glacier Girl
10-25-2006, 12:40 AM
Well I bought one on a whim last night. Ok only because I can't get the dang Cox site to work. Keeps dumping me off when I try and pay with pay pal.
Any how, was fairly easy to split apart the fuselage, now trying to unglue the electronics was a trip. But got that handled. I think I'll go the same route and make working ailerons and elevator and lock the rudder.

Bob, did you find the ball bearing in the tail used for balance?
I checked the balance point before hacking mine apart. The tape in the bottom of the wing was pretty close to a CG position on mine.
I'm going to go with a pair of Hitec 50 or 55's. And more then likely use torsion rods for the ailerons, or just run rods to control horns on them.
From what I read on the Cox forums, it's a good idea to pull the dihedral out of the wing to make it more responsive. Looks easy enough to do.
I may go and make a pocket rocket out of mine. I have a spare Park 400 4200kv inrunner laying around. Should be able so shoehorn it in.
Using a Cox 3.125x2.5x3 on MotoCals shows 7 amps, 5.4 thrust and around 70 mph, on a 2s lipo.

Voyager2lcats
10-25-2006, 04:38 AM
GG,

Yes, I've got the ball bearing(!) in the packing case. I'm afraid I did not trace the CofG like you did, but there's a lot of moving going on! I already significantly reduced the dihedral (it's almost flat, now). I need some 1/16" styrene tubing for the aileron and elevator horns, since I'm going pull-pull with sewing thread (yeah, I'm a cheap upgrader!). I'll grab some coffee straws at the local coffee shop tomorrow (they're perfect). I've got a nice Electrifly NiMh 220 mAh 7.2 volt 6 cell that I swap with the NiCd in my scratch-build Piper Cub when it's not windy. I'll be using the GWS motor methinks.
Here's the first in the series of building modifications. I can't figure out how to caption my jpegs, so I'll discuss it here. These are before and after shots of the "guts"; I've already cut out the switch panel, NiMh battery (only 4.8 volts), the 130 motor, and the rudder with magnet "servo". I filled the charge port with styrofoam cut from a 1/8" thick supermarket meat tray (very good quality, small cell styrofoam) and strengthened the area with another rectangular styrofoam piece behind it. I have read in other Cox warbird posts that this area is notoriously weak in crashes(!). I also reinforced the right inside "cheek" with a styrofoam rectangle to reinforce the area where the NiMh battery was epoxied (weakened when I cut it out- oops!). If you're going to add weight, it might as well be the nose.
The after shot illustrates the changes to the fuselage (note: ball bearing is no longer near where tail wheel would be) and shows the top of the now functional elevators on the tail plane. The rudder is a composite of the fin (yellow) and a newly cut and sanded vertical stabilizer. The magnet that formerly "controlled" the rudder is on the lower right; I'm keeping it as a novelty. Okay, that's all for tonight. More tomorrow.
Bob

Voyager2lcats
10-26-2006, 03:25 AM
This is part 2 (of how many, I don't know). Well, I've got pictures of the modification of the horizontal stabilizer with .032 guage piano wire pushed into the leading edge of each elevator (think of the wire as an elongated letter C turned on its side with the short ends poked into the elevators secured with transparent tape- 59 cents at Target).
The vertical stabilizer is fixed and built up from that 1/8" meat tray foam I mentioned previously. Tape is the primary adhesive here, although I might revert to white glue; haven't decided until I get a scale. Last picture is the elevator which is pretty much the same technique one would use on the elevators (minus the wire): use an x-acto knife #11 to cut along the panel lines until it comes off the wing. Using 240 grit sandpaper glued to a medium sized board (3" w X 14" long; that's what I had available, no particular reason), sand the leading edges of the elevators and ailerons at a sharp angle for the pivot point against the trailing edge of the stabilizer and wings respectively.
The edges are taped with clear tape to the stabilizer/wings. I take two 1" pieces of tape, reverse the tacky side of one to face the other piece and put them together with 1/4 to 3/8" sections overlapping to make a two sided tape that is sticky at the top on one side, non-sticky in the middle (on both sides), and the third area sticky on the side opposite the top; this is my aileron tape hinge. I know that is confusing, but it's the best I can describe it. I alternate these hinge tape sections so that the first one is stuck to the trailing edge of the wing on top, then taped similarly on the bottom for a total of four hinge tapes per aileron. I did the same with the elevators. They are surprisingly strong and flexible. The tape is very hard to see.
I won't belabor the vertical stabilizer because it's basically what you see is what you get: cut styrofoam to match the old stabilizer sand the rudder thinner (I think it's too thick to start with) to better mate with the new stabilizer. Cut styrofoam to fill the gap in the middle of the rudder. Tape them together as best you can. Tomorrow: mating the belly pan to the wings (reducing dihedral) and giving the wings a curved leading edge and curved wingtips.

Sky Sharkster
10-26-2006, 03:45 AM
Hello, Bob, Great job on the build! You're right, those hinges are practically invisible...that technique is similar to one we used to use for U-Control models, we used cloth hinges (it came already cut to size, for some reason they used "pinking shears", which gave the cut a zig-zag edge) one piece glued to the top of the stabilizer, then the bottom of the elevator. Next one, we'd alternate, and so on. Made a strong but flexible hinge. If I remember right, the name for these was "over and under" which describes it pretty well.
Is the wire joiner for the elevators epoxied in or taped? I'd be tempted to put some epoxy on first, then the tape but that might be overkill on a model this small.
Nice work on the aileron fit, looks very tight. You've put a lot of thought and work into this model, I'll bet you'll be rewarded with a good flyer!
Thanks for keeping us posted,
Ron

Voyager2lcats
10-26-2006, 04:16 AM
Ron,
As usual you are absolutely correct; the tape is "over-under". That is an excellent description. I have not used any epoxy on the elevator/wire. The Target tape is so tacky you would not believe how well it holds this stuff. I swear by it. If you make a mistake it is forgiving enough to pull off and try another piece. I'll paint over bare spots later when all is said and done. Thanks for the encouragement. I think Cox/Estes has done a nice job on the aircraft finish and construction. The new RTF kits are really the way to go, but I hate to see such a nice plane as this Thunderbolt laying around when it can rip up the local park! Take care. More pics tomorrow.

Bob

Glacier Girl
10-26-2006, 11:21 AM
Very nice so far Bob. Now I feel bad. I just went with the regular tape hinge set up on mine. :(
Something I thought of last night while working on mine. I'm not going to glue the fuselage together until I have it all together and am sure all is working, then if balance is off it would be easy enough to hide the weight inside. Then glue it together and repaint.
Are you going to go through the canopy or through the wing opening for battery install? I'm thinking wing may be best. After removing the dihedral angle from the fuselage and lower blocks, the fuselage section is almost paper thin. So I figure I'll just trim it out and box it in for the pack.;)

Voyager2lcats
10-26-2006, 03:32 PM
GG,

Don't feel bad! You go with the idea you think will work best. My plan is a little unconventional with the tape, something I borrowed from my scratch-build plans. I am using a combination of adhesives to retain lightness: tape, white glue (Elmer's), and Gorilla Glue (limited quantities since it is so expansive without clamps or weights). I think your plan to tape the fuselage together until you are finished is a good one. I intend to do the same thing, and then glue the halves when I am satisified it will fly. I am still thinking about going through the wing for access, but I might not since I am thinking about planting a servo into the belly pan for the ailerons. I think a cockpit hatch might work better for battery access. I also dug out all of the foam that sat under the cockpit/canopy, so it's really light/thin at that location. If I glue the canopy down and then razor saw the fueselage in front and behind the canopy to make a hatch, I think it will work. I might need to reinforce it with some spare foam. You are right about the wing incidence of the fuselage block- it's very thin. How are you going to trim it to mate to the wings? I am reluctant to fiddle with it since the gap between the wings and the fuselage seems so small. I guess it will be a bit drag inducing if I don't fair/fare it over (wing fairing?). I am interested in your solution to this. Please let me know:)

Glacier Girl
10-26-2006, 06:16 PM
You may not..........
I used a bench top belt sander to flatten out the angle they had built in to the fuselage and the wing block. Finished it up with a block sander by hand.
If you cut right to the flaring on the fuselage and follow the curvature of the cut out, the wing still fits snug but looses most of the dihedral.

Voyager2lcats
10-26-2006, 08:24 PM
GG,

Whoa! A belt sander! No I don't have one, and I don't think I am going to try it. I'll stick with what I've got. If that doesn't work, I'll use a sanding block to reduce the flare on the fuselage. It's going to be an interesting maiden flight! Let me know how yours works out.

Glacier Girl
10-27-2006, 12:43 AM
Hey I wasn't about to spend all night sanding.
Well mines about ready to go, assembly wise. Everything is in and hooked up. Just have to balance and do final glueing of fuselage and give her a new color skeem. 5.57 oz. Ingredients as follows. GWS esc, stock motor (for now), Hitec 50 servos, Spektrum Rx, TP2S730 lipo.

Voyager2lcats
10-27-2006, 03:21 AM
Fantastic! Please post a picture of it before you fly it. I will be very interested in how it handles and your analysis of how it flies. I am a little worried myself since this my first major modification. I just need to repeat to myself: "Baby steps, just trying to get airborne for a short hop."LOL

Voyager2lcats
10-27-2006, 04:05 AM
Okay, as promised here is my latest installment. I think people will enjoy this because you don't see too many (non-wire) pull-pull ailerons. I know the same applies to elevators. Tonight I'm showing the wing construction. I took two 11" bamboo skewers and sawed off the sharp ends so they would be the same length as the leading edge of each wing. Again, I used tape on the ends and near stress points where the bamboo needed to be bent to conform to the leading edge. Once it was taped I applied a bead of white glue along the entire top of the skewer where it conforms to the wing. Once that was dry, I cut out oval styrofoam in the general shape of the wingtip beyond the aileron to give it greater depth. I used a nail file to sand the ends of the skewer smoother to align with the styrofoam wingtip addition. I mentioned previously that I was influenced by the construction plans of a Fan-Tastic Models AT-6 Texan; well, this follows the basic wing shape of that nice little e-flyer. I'll soon see if this recipe does the trick!
Next up is the modification of the belly pan (great name). This is pretty much lifted from Hobbico's free flight warbird conversion plans (Spitfire, P-40, Zero, Messerschmidt, etc.) I can't show the belly pan mod since I already cut the wing that came epoxied to the belly pan. I managed to not damage it (whew!), so then I took a 1/4" wide foam strip the length of the belly pan and Gorilla glued it. I then Gorilla glued the wing halves directly on top of the foam strip (oh, yes; it's 1/16" thick foam) and at the edges where the wings contact the belly pan. I had cut the tops off those nice little plastic wing clips that attach the wing to the fuselage. I am giving myself the option to go through the wing and inside the fuselage if necessary. So I will be making a cockpit hatch as well, why not?
My last step tonight is the fabrication of the pegs that will join the wing to the front of the fuselage. These are 1/8" diameter bamboo, cut approximately 5/8" long. I used the sharp end of a skewer to make the holes and went from there. Then I white glued them into place. I took a sheet of 1/16 inch foam and pressed it up against the pegs to get a template against the fuselage, cut holes where I marked the template and white glued in place. The template also nicely fills the small gap between wing and fuselage.

Glacier Girl
10-27-2006, 12:58 PM
Very nice remods, makes the wings look more correct and stronger.
And the new mount system should work out well. Very nice indeed.
Do you have any shots of your pull/pull system?

Voyager2lcats
10-27-2006, 03:01 PM
GG,

I don't have the pull-pull aileron setup just yet. I am going to measure the Blue Arrow 3.6 servo I have mounted in my Piper Cub and make the same sized mount in the wing/belly pan location of the P-47. I still need to get some 1/16" diameter styrene tubing for the ailerons (coffee shop had 1/8" only; yes, I could buy them):( I have pull-pull on my Piper, and it is really light and responsive. I promise you, the ailerons are the next step and I will dutifully have pictures as soon as I can. I've got friends with young children visiting this weekend, so I won't be getting much building done until Sunday or Monday night.
Okay, a side note: love your avatar. That is a beautiful P-38! I saw a documentary on how they got that bird out of the Greenland ice- absolutely jaw-dropping scary and amazing at the same time. That thermal drill they had looked like a giant drain plug. I love warbirds, but I am not sure I would go down the tunnel and do what the recovery team did. Way scary. Until next time,

Bob

Glacier Girl
10-27-2006, 09:57 PM
Well I'm waiting. Mines ready to go.:D
Looks like mine ended up a little neg dihedral. Should level out in flight......
I think. And of course it's supposed to rain all weekend, so maiden is on hold. P38's? I love em. Got 3 and #4 on the way. From around 30" to 90" wingspans. You can see some of them in the backrounds.

Voyager2lcats
10-27-2006, 10:40 PM
GG,
Hey, hey. Now you're talkin'! That is a nice paint job. Let me know how she flies. Do I detect an E-Flite P-47 hanging up on your wall? I see a P-38 (big surprise), a Hawker-Siddley Gnat(?), and a Northrop F-5/F-22 or a cousin(!). Hope your dihedral will be alright in terms of flight dynamics. I am impressed with your overall build- very pretty. Now take off! It is supposed to clear up but windy tomorrow here in South Carolina, what is it going to be in your neck of the woods?

Bob

P.S. Duh! Your weather is rain, like you told me.

Glacier Girl
10-28-2006, 11:36 AM
Yeah weather is going to be the pits.
Oh and close on the guesses. Dead on on the P47, the others are a BAE Hawk, and an F20 Tigershark.

Voyager2lcats
10-28-2006, 08:03 PM
Aaaargh! A BAE Hawk! I should have known. Red Arrows, right? F-20 Tigershark (aka the Super F-5). Nice jets. Weather here in Columbia is beautiful, but waaaay tooo wiiindy to fly unless you are a masochist. I am going to order some servos today and probably the ESC and receiver. Man am I jealous that you have your plane ready. I feel like the guy who shows up late for everything!:rolleyes: Take care and hope you get some clear skies very soon. I am looking forward to your maiden; almost as much as mine;)

Glacier Girl
10-28-2006, 09:08 PM
Well you'll probably get in the air before me.
Today so far has been 50+ mph winds, thunderstorms with hail, sleet, and snow. At least it pretty much deleafed every tree so I'll only have to deal with cleaning them up one more time.

DetroitHawk
10-29-2006, 11:20 PM
Well you'll probably get in the air before me.
Today so far has been 50+ mph winds, thunderstorms with hail, sleet, and snow. At least it pretty much deleafed every tree so I'll only have to deal with cleaning them up one more time.


Well i can't fly either here in michigan as we have had 30+ mph winds. :(

However all the leaves that WERE in my yard have now relocated to some other sad man's lawn. I can't fly but atleast i don't have to rake leaves.

Voyager2lcats
10-30-2006, 04:49 AM
Gentlemen,

Wind is probably 20-25+ mph here, but it is cloudless (don't hate me!).:) I am held up by supplies at this time; I need an ESC, receiver, and two servos. I am buying tomorrow for sure. Let me know when your weather gets better. Once I get it all together I will be sure to continue my picture posting. I did finally find some 1/16" tubing from an old WD-40 spray can. I washed it in Palmolive dish washing detergent to remove the gross stuff. I'll be glueing it to some triangular styrene (cut from old credit cards) for control horns. I got that from the DYI section in RCG (sorry, shameless plug)! Great stuff in there if you like to improvise. Sorry, no pics tonight. But patience will be rewarded, I promise.

Bob

Glacier Girl
10-30-2006, 07:41 PM
You know what really sucks, it was as nasty as all get out here all weekend.
And of course today it's sunny, and little wind, and warm out.:mad:
Did I mention I'm at work, and with time change over the weekend, there will be no after work flying for quite some time.

Grasshopper
10-30-2006, 07:48 PM
You know what really sucks, it was as nasty as all get out here all weekend.
And of course today it's sunny, and little wind, and warm out.:mad:
Did I mention I'm at work, and with time change over the weekend, there will be no after work flying for quite some time.

I've been watching your thread with interest. I couldn't agree more with you on the dark after work deal. I hate when daylight savings time ends. Now we're down to 2 days a week to fly and that's if the weather cooperates. Guess we'll just have to build more huh?

Voyager2lcats
10-30-2006, 08:07 PM
Gentlemen,

I concur with all of your concerns about weather, after-work flying, and daylight (or lack of it). I start work at 9 AM, end at 6 PM and have no time before or after! If I am lucky it isn't windy during lunch and I have packed my plane in the trunk. The Estes P-47 can sit in the front passenger seat!:)
I can report a stroke of good fortune. Hobby Lobby is having their October sale, so you might want to check their web site today. I purchased two Blue Arrow 3.6 servoes and a Blue Arrow Rx (with crystal) for $43.39 (that includes the $7.99 shipping). I would have purchase an ESC, but they didn't have what I wanted. Drat! So I will be posting the servo installation in about 2 weeks. It might take that long for it to get here. Regards,

Bob

Voyager2lcats
10-31-2006, 05:19 PM
I was wrong about my Hobby Lobby mail order: they gave me an additional $5.00 off for having a 4" X 4" package:confused: Okay, I'll accept it. I am going to post some pics later today of the aileron control horns (I'll get the rest of it tonight). It's a start. Hope everyone is getting clear weather this weekend. DetroitHawk and Grasshopper (Tom), welcome to this thread and I hope you'll stay tuned to this build and the ultimate consequences. I am definitely a turtle, so I will get there I just don't know when.:)

Bob

Voyager2lcats
11-01-2006, 04:46 AM
Alright, I am trying to post pictures; let's see what happens. I got disconnected last time I tried. Here goes. The first picture is the aileron horn on top; the red area is the 1/16" tubing, supported by triangular cuts of credit card super glued to the tubing and white glued to the foam of the aileron (I scraped away paint finish as much as I could). Second is aileron horn on bottom, third is detail of belly pan with peg attachment and bamboo leading edge. Servo cutout is visible in wing top. I will probably drill out the plastic retaining pin and move the servo cutout further forward. My next step is to drill a channel through the top of the wing next to the servo in the belly pan. I will run control lines through these (2) channels to either wing, through two 1/4 tubes under the wing in front of the aileron control horns. The control line(s) will split there to both upper and lower control horns. I still need to punch a small hole through the wing aproximately 3/8" to 1/2" in front of both control horns. Argh. See you tomorrow.

Bob

Glacier Girl
11-04-2006, 09:46 PM
Well, looks like I beat you to the maiden. Mine flew today. I'm running a 2s lipo vs the stock 4 cell nicad. Way more power. And she handles like a dream. Only downside I had was props. cold weather and the plastic they are made of do not mix. No matter how easy I bellied in, she snapped off the prop. Well I'm down to the last one, so I'll hold off on any more till it warms up.

Voyager2lcats
11-06-2006, 03:13 PM
Hey!
Way to go! Sorry about the broken propellers. What kind are you using? What did you decide on for your motor? I am glad to hear that the handling is good. Fantastic! I guess you'll be buying spare propellers? I still need propellers and an ESC. I'm sticking with a brushed GWS CN12 model that fits into the IPS gearbox (only without the gearbox!). If I am not satisfied with that, I'll go with a Feigao brushless.:rolleyes: Still waiting on servos and recever (in the mail). Cheers!:)

Bob

Glacier Girl
11-07-2006, 12:06 AM
I stuck with the stock motor and props. Seeing as it was set up to run on a 4 cell nicad, the 2S lipos is like a super charger on it.
Now it's decision time as to what to do next. Cox just released a Zero, Me109, and a FW190.

Voyager2lcats
11-07-2006, 02:54 PM
GG,

Very interesting. I broke all my props when I tried to fly it "as is", so I bought some GWS 3020s. I will let you know how it goes. My servos and receiver have arrived, so they are going in. I am going to work on the pull-pull aileron setup tonight and probably post the pictures tomorrow morning. Now I'm waiting on the ESC (decided to get a GWS ICS-100F). I figure the GWS CN12 series motor is not going to draw more than 8 amps max power. I am open to anyone's suggestions on this if you know that to be wrong. Cox has really tapped into the right market for RC and they are doing a good job of responding to customers' desires with these RTFs. Are the new Axis aircraft RTF or ARF? I admit I haven't been looking. Best regards to everyone,

Bob

Glacier Girl
11-08-2006, 05:58 PM
Bob, the new releases are like the regular Cox line. All in pieces you assemble. Which will make modding them so much easier.

Voyager2lcats
11-08-2006, 06:30 PM
Hey GG,
Sounds good. I admit I would like a Zero and a Bf/Me-109. It's fun working on these little guys(gals?)! WattFlyer is really responsible for me wanting to do this along with the article I saw in Backyard Flyer last year on them. The good will I have seen displayed in posts on these little birds has been fantastic. I really enjoyed the many build posts I have looked at. Hopefully others will think the same of this one. Pictures will be displayed tomorrow- my apologies. It took me way too long to dig out the "hole" in the belly pan/wing for my servo last night. It's sitting in there nice and tight now. See ya,

Bob

Voyager2lcats
11-10-2006, 02:02 PM
These are pictures of the pull-pull ailerons using nylon sewing thread. I have used this in my Piper Cub, so I know it works. It is light and very responsive. After excavating the wing for a servo mounting location, I inserted the servo without gluing. I glued 3/8" clear plastic drink straws from one of those ready-to-go squeezable juice containers on the wing undersides directly in front of the aileron horns. I also pierced the wing directly next to the servo- making sure the holes were inside the fuselage(!). I used white glue and gorilla glue to reinforce and secure the tubing. After these had dried, I ran a double strand of white nylon sewing thread from rear servo throw to both ailerons via these "channels". Once that was done, I routed the thread back to the forward servo throw. I used the cut tips of two toothpicks to secure the aileron horns to the thread and then when I was satisfied the ailerons were centered, I used a dab of white glue on the end of another toothpick to bind the thread to the servo throws/eyes.

Glacier Girl
11-10-2006, 05:23 PM
Wow very nice workmanship. Putting a lot of effort into it.
Why is it we take a $20.00 bird and invest hundreds in both money and hours? Because we can.

Voyager2lcats
11-11-2006, 01:39 AM
GG,
Hey, let's face it, we like to build and watch our creations take to the sky to delight us! I'll keep this, short tonight, but the motor mount is my next project. This one is definitely different, again based on the Fan-tastic Models AT-6 Texan build. Stay tuned for more!;)

Bob

Voyager2lcats
11-13-2006, 05:50 AM
Well I had these jpegs so here is what the aileron/servo setup looks like.

Voyager2lcats
11-13-2006, 02:44 PM
Here's an idea I borrowed for an engine mount technique. I found some packing foam from a computer monitor box at work and cut out a section of it. It's rigid in the left-right aspect and the top-bottom aspect, but compresses in the front-back aspect. So it's a good cushion for crashes, plus you don't need any glue; it's tight. I have marked it for the cylindrical GWS motor. I will attempt to hot knife it and insert the motor when I am done. I'll post the picture once that's complete.

Bob

Voyager2lcats
11-16-2006, 10:43 PM
See those photos in the previous post? Well now there's an engine where the drawn cutout lines were. I used a bamboo skewer and followed up with the flat tip blade on my x-acto knife to tunnel it out (I don't have a hot knife). I am trying about a 2 degree downward angle for the engine thrust and see what happens. I was working on the elevator servo last night, as well as mounting the receiver. I made a groove in the left side fuselage reinforcement I fabricated previously. I am going to gorilla glue a horizontal "deck" inside the cockpit area to this grooved portion (pictures tonight). This is about a 4" long 1/8" thick styrofoam plank holding the elevator servo and the Rx. I cut a hole for the the aileron servo connector to route through to the Rx. I am trying to keep everything in line to maintain balance along the center line. We shall see.:) It is early but I think the plane tilts right at the moment. I'll add a little weight to the left wingtip if necessary. I've got all my parts, so now it's just a matter of patching it together and getting the CofG correct. Auf wiedersehen!

Bob

Virgil Kee
11-16-2006, 10:48 PM
Am I the only one who is put off by the smoked canopies on the Estes/Cox micro warbirds? These have nothing to do with WWII aircraft! Looks like they are able to push these off on us due to the popularity of "cool" cars and macho pickup trucks. I pointed this out to another forum's readers, including Mike Fritz (product developer at Cox). Not a single poster reacted! I invited them to visit the museums to see actual WWII warbirds. If so, they would clearly see what I'm talking about.

Would any of you provide me with a clear canopy for the Cox micro Spitfire? What about a cottage industry making these up for modelers who enjoy a bit of realism at the flying field?

Virg.

dmmalish
11-16-2006, 11:42 PM
try making a wood mold/form and use a water or pop bottle i've heard this works have not tried it yet

Voyager2lcats
11-17-2006, 03:57 PM
Virgil Kee,

I'm not real bothered by the dark canopies, but since you mention it I know that the Hobbico free flight Mustang (20.5" wingspan) has a clear canopy. I think some of their other birds do also. I would recommend searching some of the online RC hobby web sites and parse their spare parts listings for similar scale aircraft with clear canopies (good luck!). I admit it isn't very scale or realistic to have smoked canopies. The other alternative is to make your own like dmmalish says. If you can cut a block of wood and sand it to an acceptable shape (i.e. a plug) then you can set soda bottle plastic or other similar plastic on the heated plug and it will melt to conform to the plug after a 350 degree oven bake. I have never done this, but there are posts on how to do this. Use the search feature- sorry I don't know the key words!


Bob

P.S. I have new photos, but couldn't get them to upload last night. GRRR!:mad: I'll try again this evening.

Voyager2lcats
11-21-2006, 05:02 PM
Okay, nothing is going right today. Here I go for a third time. Latest addition to the P-47 is servo control horn, added ESC to tray behind elevator servo, Blue Arrow receiver behind aileron servo, and ran elevator control lines through yellow drink straws I taped into fuselage and out through a hole I made in fuselage rear with a bamboo skewer. I then taped the fuselage halves together and attached the wing to test the current center of gravity. So far looks good. Tonight I will tape on the tail and probably make landing gear (tail dragger that it is). If this posts, then I'll attach the photos. Keeping fingers crossed,

Bob

Voyager2lcats
11-28-2006, 10:45 PM
Well gentlemen and ladies, I think this little bird is going to fly this weekend. I need to get smart with making some styrofoam wheels tonight and put them on. I haven't done the tail wheel yet and I need to glue in a styrene piece on the inside canopy so it will be screw locked in place; yes, I made a canopy hatch which I will photograph tonight.;) Bottom wing needs a similar piece to hold it on as well.:o Ailerons and elevator look good and seem to respond well. I don't know what everyone else's experience is with aileron servos, but I seem to have difficulty centering them for neutral control after a rollout. It seems like they need a slight nudge of the control stick to get them zeroed. That doesn't bode well for take offs. We shall see. If I smash it into a million bits of styrofoam, I promise I will photograph the gory results.:eek: Until next time, wish me luck!

Bob

Grasshopper
11-28-2006, 11:03 PM
Good luck Bob! It's amazing that a little plane can take just as much or more work than a big one. That ought to be a fun plane. Bring er back in one piece!

Sky Sharkster
11-29-2006, 12:00 AM
Hope all goes well on the flights, Bob. I've been following with interest, I admire your craftsmanship and ingenuity! Let us know how it flys!
Ron

Voyager2lcats
11-29-2006, 04:57 AM
Thanks Ron and Tom! I am glad to see some interest out there. I am slow, but I get there. This isn't a masterpiece, but I think it is going to look pretty good once I apply some acrylic paint. Everything is ready, except the wheels. I'm making them out of two layers of 1/8" foam, gluing together, sticking on a drill bit, and sanding with a board via my electric drill (not very much!). In the meantime, here are some near-final pics to let everyone see where this is headed.:)

Voyager2lcats
12-01-2006, 08:57 PM
This might be my last picture before the P-47's maiden flight. I will be painting some more tonight, so I will probably add one more picture before the big day. Saturday weather, not so sure yet. Like I said previously, if she breaks up I will provide all the gory details. I might even save a tear or two!;)

CGFlyer
12-01-2006, 09:14 PM
Nice mods gang, I have been toying with diong something similar and you guys have lead to great inspiration.

Glacier Girl, when the Snoopy busts are done, Ill trade you one or two for that jet hanging on your wall! ;)

Glacier Girl
12-03-2006, 08:31 PM
Dang those must be expensive Snoopies.:eek:

CGFlyer
12-04-2006, 01:56 AM
LOL, only if you want them to be. I am just craving a jet really bad, mine will be here next week and then after the sopwith build im starting on a foam and glass f-15.

Voyager2lcats
12-04-2006, 04:20 AM
Here's the latest paint job. Should fly this week!:) Take care,

Bob

Voyager2lcats
12-05-2006, 10:49 PM
Well, I took my electronic toy out to play at lunchtime. Checked the settings like a good little RC pilot- everything working hunky-dory. Revved the throttle up and off she went- straight off of the concrete into the grass, leaving one landing gear in the grass! :o Okay, the moment of truth. Now I have to throw it into the air. :eek: Just for fun I chucked it with the engine OFF. Yes, that was crazy, but it did a nice glide without breaking into pieces(!). Don't let anyone tell you these things are fragile. Next, powered engine up to 3/4 throttle and flung it into space. Short flight since I was reaching for the transmitter as soon as I threw it. It rolled a little, but no damage. I threw it five more time before the elevator and rudder popped off (undamaged). I never had the presence of mind to increase throttle nor was I able to roll the aircraft opposite of the direction it was rolling, because my reaction time is too slow when hand launching on my own. I am much better with ROG takeoffs. So it is back home to glue the tail back on and reattach the right side landing gear. I will try again tomorrow! ;)