GWS Formosa Build Project - Modified

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

Well - I got sucked in....was at the LHS just looking around and ended up picking out a Formosa Slope Glider kit.

Plan on installing my Himax 2015-4100 in the plane with a 3S lipo.

Noticed something about the kit though. First - It came with Formosa II decals instead. They are larger and with an American Flag design. Second, The wing spar is a carbon rod instead of the standard wood.

Is this normal for the formosa kit? Or did I end up with some special model? It was only 29.00 - what a deal!

Picked up some monokote to wrap the control surfaces in - makes them alot stronger and looks great too. Leaving the landing gear off to make it as light as possible.

Also picked up some balsa stock for the airlerons to stiffen them up and help with the rolls.

Very impressed with the kit so far.

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One interesting thing that I am doing, which so far is looking great, is a technique I learned in a Quiet Flyer magazine. After filling the molding holes and seem lines with white balsa-rite spackling, I thinned it with water till it was the consistancy of merenge. Once complete, I painted it on the foam with a brush and let it dry. After it was dry, sanded it about 90% off and was left with foam that now has all the little indentions and open areas between the foam beads filled. The plane is now silky smooth, you wouldn't even know it was foam!!!

Tested the weight difference on the wing and fuse, and after this modification, weight gain was only .05oz for the fuse and .08oz for the wing. Basically, none.

I would recommend this to anyone. I will post some photos either this afternoon or evening.

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Well - the build is coming together nicely - the spackling really smoothed out the foam. Using econocote to cover the control surfaces added alot of structural rigidity to them, but I might take it off, as covering foam is no easy task. The airlerons are about the same size as stock, maybe just a hair bigger, but made of balsa and are much much stiffer. Here are a couple of quick photos showing the start of the paint job. I just layed everything together for the pic - the model is not as completed as it looks.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/form1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/form2.jpg

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Update on the build - got alot acomplished today. About the only thing left to do is install the rudder and elevator servos, rcvr, batts, and powerplant. Here are some photos of the plane now - you can really see how nice the monokote came out once it was ironed down and shinking was done.

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/frm4.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/frm3.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/frm2.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/frm1.jpg

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

Well - The plane is complete - came out extremly light - only 15.25oz!!! Amazing - I didnt really do anything to lighten the plane, either. Very suprised with the addition of the monokote and balsa that it came out so light - that weight was AUW as well, 3S lipo included.

Cant wait to fly tomorrow morning - COG came out about 3-4mm behind the wingspar - is this ok?

Here are some pics.

-----------------------------

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/form01.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/form02.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/form03.jpg http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/form04.jpg

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

And here is a picture of my GWS collection. The pink beaver is my girlfriend's plane. Boy, she's gonna kill me for that comment.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/planesgroup.jpg

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Well - Got in 3 flights - was busy there this morning - scary doing your maiden flight in front of all those people. Plane flew great - very very fast. Only problem was that I experienced extremely bad airleron flutter at higher speeds. I heard about this problem and tried to fix it during the build, but didn't succeed. I guess the only solution will be to set the plane up with two servos in the wing. I am going to the LHS in about an hour to pick up another servo and a Y-harness along with some linkage. That should fix the problem.

Here are a couple of photos from the field. Took them with my camera phone so sorry about the resolution.


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/flyin1.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/flyin2.jpg

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I built the linkage completely stock. The best indication that shows there will be flutter is that even with power on for the servos, I can wiggle the airlerons with my hand a good 3/4 of an inch in both directions and the servo doesnt move. Where this seems to be coming from is three specific locations.

1. At the 90 degree angle where the torque rod bends from being level with the wing to straight up . If I hold the linkage from the servo to the grommet on the torque rod still - I can still move the airlerons. I see the torque rod rocking back in forth in the gullet on the wing.
2. The actual connection at the grommet between the linkage and the torque rod. This I can also wiggle substantially with my fingers.
3. Finally, in the airleron itself. There is some, very litte but some, play in the location the torque rod is mouted into the airleron.

This is the first, of all four of my GWS planes that have had this problem

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

Decided on a dual airleron mod to fix the flutter - also decided on installing landing gear and a 9x7.5 prop.

=========================================

Well - I completed the dual airleron servo install. Looks like it's going to work out just fantastic. It's getting ready to storm right now, but I plan on going flying later this evening, and will give a flight report.

Below is a detailed explanation with pictures of how I did it. I used JR micro servos which are similar in size to the GWS Naro line, only with more torque and they are about 3mm shallower.

STEP 1: I measured and marked off the location of the servos. I contemplated installing them on the top of the wing to prevent any damage on landing, but after looking at it, they should be fine. After marking the location, I used a chisel blade on my x-acto and dug out the hole. I then sanded out a groove for the wire to follow and drilled out a hole for it to come through the top of the wing under the fuse.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/stp6.jpg

STEP 2: In the next photo, you can see the servo mounted and wired into place with the Y harness attached. No extentions were needed. The servos were epoxied into place and allowed to dry

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/stp5.jpg

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

STEP 3: Once the epoxy had dried, I installed some extra GWS control horns onto the airlerons. Because I used balsa stock instead of foam this was very easy. I simply cut a slit into the balsa and epoxied them into place. I then attached a z bend on the control horn and used a micro connector on the servo horn. Once in place and centered, I used some left over tape from the GWS decals to cover the wire. Here is a photo:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/stp4.jpg

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

---------------------------

That's it - very simple, and took about 2 hrs to complete. Below I took two seperate photos to show the difference that this modification has made. In the first photo, you can see how much play the airleron had with the stock setup. This was not done with much force, as you can see, there is probably over an inch of movement in both directions. In the next photo, you can see how much play there is after the mod - almost none. This modification took out almost all of the slop in the airlerons. Looking forward to testing the mod later today.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/stp2.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/stp1.jpg

===========================================

UPDATE - FLIGHT REPORT!
=================

I LOVE THIS PLANE!!!

Wow - Went back out after the modification and it worked like a champ. This plane is FAST!!! Whew!

Here are the specific maneuvers I put the plane through and the results.

Loop - No sweat. Will loop many times from level flight. Smaller loops simple, large and slow loops again no problem.

Roll - I had the control surfaces set pretty strong, and it would roll about 3 times per second. Could easily to 4 complete rolls without any rudder input and without losing altitude. After that, it started droping a little without coordinating the roll.

Snap Roll - Just that, a snap. Full airleron and rudder produced a quick snap. Slower snap rolls were also very simple with no down elevator needed.

4 Point Slow Roll - I have never been able to do one until I got this plane. No sweat. Looked beautiful. Needed alot of rudder input to maintain level flight.

Inverted flight - Flew inverted with very minimal down elevator.

Knife Edge - Did one perfectly. Will fly for about 5secs on edge before dropping altitude. The second one I tried came out sloppy.

Other aerobatics I tried that came out wonderful were a hammerhead, split S, and cuban 8.

Plane glides well and flys at 1/2 throttle just fine as well. About 10mph winds, and it felt no different. I just love this plane, it flys so well. I would recommend it to anyone.

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

I decided that in the event I choose to land at a concrete area and so that I may ROG when I feel like it, I should install some landing gear. Weighed in at 15.8oz, so it didn't really add much weight. Went with some .65mm wire that I bent myself and installed the larger 2.5" wheels. looks great, little wobbly, but not too much. Just used a peice of popsicle stick for a tailwheel. Attached are some pics of the install.

I also switched to a 9x7.5 prop instead of the 9x6 I was using, should give me some additional speed and thrust.

Per motocalc - the plane is now showing the following calculations:

AUW - 15.8oz
THRUST - 16.4oz
Watts/LB - 94.4w
SPEED - 51.5mph
AMPS - 9.8A

[tone]

I am flying mine on a very similar setup
himax 4100 at 4.4:1 with the 9x7.5 APC 3s 2100 genII

fast enough to Knife Edge, and still has power to climb out vertical just fine.
Excellent. Still may be my favorite. never been worse than 2nd favorite, even while i am infatuated with something else that generally ends up disappointing me. The Formosa never has.

Did you say a WOOD SPAR? both of mine had fiberglass. i used the first and replaced it with carbon on the second.

Anyhow nice thread and a good job on the build.

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

Tone - thanks for the input - how many amps are you drawing on that 4:1 gearing?

I may have typed wood spare, but no - it came with a black fiberglass spar.

[comets8518]

where you guys getting the apc 9x7.5 its seems a lot of places are hit or misses...and i think thats the prop i want to use w/ my 2025-4200..probably on the 4.4 gearing

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

Wow - on 4:1 gearing that thing would be a rocket. I had a hard time finding it too. I was originally using the 9x6. I found mine at my local hobby shop - Graves RC

[comets8518]

hehe...yeah it should be a rocket...i'm going to start at 10x7 w/ 5.5 (or whatever the 5.4) till i feel like i need more speed....that should do it, i guess i'll just buy those props when I get there...my local hobby store has nothing in stock, ever

[Orland Mckee]

I have a hacker C50XL 14 with gear box has anyone greased these gears and what grease did you use?
Orland

[stuff]

If you are worried about your aileron servos touching the ground add a plywood skid adjoining them .Make it just a bit taller than the servo horn.If you have mounted the servo on its side be sure to drill a hole in the plywood to access the sero screw for the horns.also if you are not using wheels add a strip of packing tape from the cowl to just behind the wing .This will save a lot of hanger rash over time.One more always check your wing mounting screw as mine tend to come loose from vibration while riding in my van.Could be my Tires? stuff

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

Very good tips, STUFF!

I thought of adding a cowl over the servos from a 20oz drink bottle, but have since added wheels to alleviate the problem.

[Watts up]

nice how about a flight vid?

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

wattsup - Thanks for the comments. Unfortunatly I don't have a video camera, but I know some of the guys I fly with do. I am trying to set up a time when we can get together and tape some footage. Hopefully we will see some flights on video in the near future.

[rascal110]

guys try a himax 2816-1080 with a 9x6apc in the formosa if u want super speed. i have one in mine just b careful not to pull the wings off in a dive. u just wont beleive how fast it is. use lowwwww rates. mine puts out 265 watts ..

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

rascal - that must be insane - Im only putting out about 100watts and the plane is a screamer!

[rascal110]

NItro just b sure to use lowwww rates as the formosa is a super flyer.. u cant beatem for $25. i generally use a himax 2812-1080 for those gws but i had a new 2816 that i use in my mini funtana so i decided hey y not .. try it and u let me know.. use about half throttle on lauch though. the formosa is very sensitive to cg and battery position. i hope u dont tear it up lol..

[Mighty Wings Australia]

Hi guys and gals,
Just thought I would share a thought or two about this fantastic model, first of all I love my Formosa it is my favorite model, I have been a flyer for over thirty years and having a model that can perform like the formosa does and have it do it in my local park is just awesome, I have my Formosa powered by a Mega 15/16/7 and three cell 1700 lipo and whooohoo it is powered better than a few of the "real" pattern ships that I have flown over the years, this thing can be launched verticle and yet be brought around in an inverted circuit, at head height in high alpha at walking pace with out any need to think of that potential tip stall, just doesn't happen.
Having flown my formosa for a few months I decided to see how i could come up with something smaller for indoor flight that will have the same great manners of the Formosa, so far I am up to MK2 of what I am calling TIGGA, these thing s have a full depron Fuselage a high density white foam core wing with iron on covering straight onto the foam and depron tail surfaces, so far both models have been great flyers but not really slow enough to fly F3a style indoors, Mk3 will follow shortly but at the moment Iam working on a speed 400 size Super Chipmunk to be a stable mate to the formosa, I'll start another thread here in pattern when I have something to show. Any way all these later models have really been inspired by the performance and handling of the formosa, just imagine recreating the legendary Art Scholl's display routine in your local park with a foamy Chippy, incidently I found a copy of his schedule in a brochure of his airshow on one of the Art scholl web pages, simple routine but would be great to recreate.
enough dribble
TTFN
Alexis
Mighty Wings Australia

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

It is a great airplane, isn't it Mighty?

I really like your new design in that photo! Great job!

[Mighty Wings Australia]

Thanks for the kind words and heres a pic of my GWS C47 made up to look like an airliner of say the fifties perhaps,The Dak is another gem from GWS I flew it on a little too aft C.o.g on its maiden and yet it still managed loops and rolls I just had to be carefull on the recovery because if you get on the up elevator with the rearward c.o.g it wants to stay nose high and mush along and eventually it will drop a wing but the warning it gives you is like perhaps calling the day before to let you know when it will drop a.
wing.
By for now
regards
Alexis

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

Very beautiful paintwork. I can see a glossy tint to it. Are you using a special paint, or is that covering instead of paint?

[Mighty Wings Australia]

Thanks, the colors are actually World models Lite tex covering ironed straight onto the foam after running some 1200 wet and dry over the area to be covered to remove the molding spots and thats it, my Formosa is covered completely with the same material and I think not only does it improve the looks of the foamy but it also reduces that orrible thing called hangar rash that most foam models suffer very quickly.
regards
Alexis
I'll post a pic of my Formosa later just to keep this thread back on track

[RacerPaul]

Hi Fellas...

Here's some pics of mine,

Love my formosa, Mega powered w/ Lipos...

As mentioned, keep an eye on the cg,


Paul

http://www.scootermotique.theshoppe.com

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

Your Mosa looks great - like the checked scheme.

The DC-3 also looks fantastic. I have often thought of covering a foamy, but worry that it wouldn't look right, so I used covering only for the control surfaces and some trim on mine as you can see in the photos.

[Mighty Wings Australia]

here you go I finally got back to the puter to take apicture and post it here, the baby along side the Mosa is the same one as in the earlier picture.
TTFN
Alexis
Mighty Wings Australia

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

The Mosa looks great - did you have any trouble keeping the wrinkles out of the plane? It's not possible over the next few days for you to take a couple of extreme closeups showing the covering job? Would love to see how it's done and how it looks up close.

[Slent thndr]

Hey guys I finished building my Formosa, and just got back from the first flight. I am using the stock motor, 20P esc, and the 750 Mih NiMh batts. I’m not very impressed with its performance and need help thinking of ways to improve it. It could just be that the components need broken in, or that there was too much wind, or that the NiMh batts are too heavy. But with a relatively big field I couldn’t get hardly 15 ft off the ground, much less try any stunts.

I am probably just spoiled having a Combat Wing and all. For those of you who have never heard of combat wings they are a small company based in California and not widely known, but their products blow away the competition… literally. I plan on going brushless on my combat wing soon and I wanted to get a Formosa as a peaceful, easy flyer alternative to flying CWs (combat wings) which can only go fast and need big fields.

I had flown my friend’s stock lipo e-starter before and wanted something like that. With it in a small field I was able to get a lot of altitude and fast. I even was doing loops, rolls, inverts, and other things… scaring the heck out of its owner but oh well. I later tried flying my CW in the same field and it was an absolute nightmare. I couldn’t even stay level for long enough to achieve lift.

So I wanted a park flyer to fly in places my combat wing couldn’t. I heard that the Formosa was a little better than the e-starter so I went for that. I got the NiMh batts just to start with, but knew I would have to upgrade my charger and get some lipos eventually.

The first shockingly absurd design flaw is the foam ailerons (I mean come on) with the control rods just stuck inside them.

Right now I plan on buying some balsa and crafting some real ailerons.

The other thing is that my batts might be defective or something. The first time I charged one it started leaking. My charger is a MRC Super Brain 959 peak charger (I know I know I need to get a triton), and I was charging the 750 mih NiMh at a conservative rate of 1 amp. I think it like cant tell for some reason when the batt is done and it keeps going for too long. Does anyone know if my charger doesn’t support that low Mih batt or something? It works fine for my other 11 batts. And what upgrades should I do on the plane besides upgrading to brushless? I wanted it as a peaceful flyer remember but I want to get more that 15 ft off the ground.

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

The stock setup is grossly underpowered for this plane - but the foam airlerons will work. I used balsa for mine, as you see in this thread.

The batteries arn't helping any matters - as they will only supply about 6-7amps.

This plane flies as good as a 40size pattern plane when powered with a brushless, but if that is more than you want to spend, upgrade to the GWS 400C motor on a C gearbox, and use a 3S 1300mah GWS Lipo pack. That will give great perforamce too.

Hope that helped!

[Slent thndr]

Ok thanks. I figured that the NiMh wouldn’t work very well. But to get lithium i would need to buy a triton because my charger doesn't support it.

I definitely don’t want to go brushless because it’s not the speed or vertical ability that I am going for... I already have both those with my combat wing. With full brushless this thing isn't even gonna go as fast as a Combat Wing with a spd 400. I want this to be a slow park flyer for a change.

I guess that I will need to get lithium to achieve even that... i guess my question was just weather this bad performance is normal with my setup or is something was defective.

oh and about that motor/gearbox you recommended... could you please give some kind of link because I couldn't find it anything like it on tower.

[Mighty Wings Australia]

Firstly, The Formosa would seem to be the aircraft you need to meet the criterea you described, the standard power train should also do the job you are asking of it, I fly my grossely over powered one on a small local oval and have no problems with it in any way because it has such great handling and manners that if you back the power off you can fly it smooth and in close with real authority of control or if you open the tap and gun it you can fly it in a huge gracefull pattern style the choice is yours. Yoyu say you don't want brushless, that is fine, but remember there is a brushless power train for every type of flying,what I'm getting at is that my formosa has a mega 15/16/7 in it and is ballistic there is no doubt about that, yet my flying buddy has a park fly 370 brushless outrunner in his and his has enough power to pull vertical for only a few feet less than mine but flies a bit slower overall and gives really great duration from cheap 1700 3s packs, this power is probably excactly what you need to fly in a restricted environement with plenty of authority but not uncontrollable speed.
I'm not knocking the sugestion of going to the GWS 400 in a box either I would just say that it would be worth making sure that you are not adding weight to the airframe that will harm its overall handling particularly at the slow end of the envelope, I think that your battery back may be faulty or damaged because I have not seen a Formosa fly with the standard package that could not at least fly a basic aerobatic routine as you would expect.
If you hacve a way of checking it try and see what the voltige of your freshly charged pack is, I suspect you have at least one dead cell in there to have such poor performance you really want to see at least 1.3volts per cell in your pack eg a 7 cell pack should have at the very least 9v.
Now onto the ailerons, the stock set up does work, that is for sure, I do agree that perhaps a better location method in the aileron would be an advantage to both good centreing and longer life, but I'm do have an issue with replacing them with wood, firstly the weight of a control surface is very directly connected to the likely hood of flutter, a lightweight surface hinged properly and with slop free linkages will be far far superior to a heavy surface, remember that if you increase the weight of the ailerons you will slow the rate of roll down due to the extra force required to start the aircraft rolling, you will also comprimise the crsip response to roll because heavier wings once they are rolling have more enertia and therefore are harder to stop rolling, my suggestion as a comprimise of all these things is to mount individual serovs in each wing reasonably close to the fuselage to keep the weight inboard, then keep the standard ailerons but drive each one seperatly.If you are worried about the torsional strength of the ailerons then a good light weight fix is to cover the aileron with one of the lightweight films or even packing tape carefully applied and the heat shrunk to take out the wrinkles. Another advantage of dual servos is if you have a computer radio, being able to program things like flapperons for some of those crazy fancy manouvers like walls, harriers, and elevators.Some negative flap can also help where you want to pull squarer corners eg the square loop.
hope some of this is a help to you getting your formosa sorted.
regards
Alexis

[Slent thndr]

Thanks for the input. My 7 Cell batts freshly charged are 9.6 volts as expected. Its almost as if my charger is having trouble deciding when they are done because i keep having to cancel the charge early. They get sooo hot and then start leaking! Maybe they are defective. Do you think GWS would take them back and then i could get a triton and some nice lipos? They might not because i already soldered deans plugs onto them.

Thats interesting about the ailerons. I guess my main concern was that with the servos centered i can move the aileron back and forth because the control rod just sits inside the foam lol. I never would have thought that balsa would be to heavy though. I can see your point however. I don't want to have to order another servo and everything though. I guess I could. Would both the servos work on the same channel with a Y harness or would i have to get a 5 channel RX?

I do have a Computer Radio (Hitec Flash 5)

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

Silent - If you batts are leaking - then that is surely your problem. I would replace those right off, to see what you think - as that would be quite inexpensive.

In regards to your question about the dual airleron servos - a Y-harness works fine, you can see how i did it earlier in this thread.

[Slent thndr]

Ok so I will get a Triton and some lipos.

As far as the lipos I was thinking of these...

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000628159&I=LXFKA1&P=K (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000628159&I=LXFKA1&P=K)

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000628159&I=LXJSH8&P=K (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000628159&I=LXJSH8&P=K)

Maybe one of each? I was thinking that I should have a heavier higher mih lipo and a lighter lower mih one. Both 11.1V. Any objections?

You cant see the pics of them on the links but if you see them from the thumbnail view the pics show up.

[Mighty Wings Australia]

"Yes" as reformed nitroaddict said a Y lead is fine, that wont give you the bonus advantages that I mentioned but it is a great start to ending up ith a model that flies straight and true.I think that even the standard system with perhaps a hardpoint built into the aileron to stop the foam wearing out is probably a good alternative also.
regards
Alexis

[Mighty Wings Australia]

Those batteries would be fine, my Formosa has flown on as little as 640mah and as big as 1700 mah all of these packs being 11.1v the 640's do have apropblem with voltage drop if I trying pushing them a bit hard but since a started running the 1700 I have found that the small packs just always end up back in my sons shock flyer.

[Slent thndr]

so you guys think its definitly a bad idea to get balsa ailarons? I was originaly thinking that i could use the existing servo system and just tape the control rod thingy that sticks into the foam onto the balsa instead.

Wouldnt the plane perform better on the smaller battery? Of course it would be a shorter flight but becuase its the same Voltage, and lighter...

[Slent thndr]

And than about the power train... do you think the stock is fine or is there something I can do for under $30 to improve it? Basically a mod brushed motor or something and a different gearing. I don’t know. Any suggestions?

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

I would try the battery first, as that is quite cheap. It should perform at least to some degree on the stock setup.

If not happy with it, try the GWS 400 motor instead of the 350. But you will need at least 11V to power it. That battery won't work.

[Slent thndr]

By 'replace the battery' are you implying buying some lipos? In which case I would need to upgrade my charger and everything and it would come out at about $200.

Or do you mean to find more NiMh batts because you think mine are defective. I don’t know because I bought all 3 at the same time from tower. I’ll try to fly it a few more times, and see if the situation improves. Then mabye I can test it with one of my friend’s lipos and see if that fixes it.

So ok get a 400 motor maybe but what gear ratio?

[Slent thndr]

And what about landing gear? I want some on it but the stock landing gear ripped off on the first landing, and that tail wheel just stuck in the rudder looks like junk. I like the looks of what you put on your estarter in the other thread. Where did u find that? And can you taxi at all with that by applying rudder or do you need to have one of the wheels turning like with the stock Formosa?

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

When I mean batteries - I mean that if your nimh's are leaking - that is a problem that needs to be fixed ASAP. If all three packs are leaking, then it isn't the packs - it's either the charger, or the fact you are drawing too many amps. If it's only one pack that is leaking - then replace that pack with another nimh pack - minimum number of cells - 7.

Going to Lipo isnt that expensive - you can pick up a cheap lipo charger for under 50.00

Landing gear - I went gearless because I got the slope kit on my formosa. I added gear later on - just purchased some wire and some after market wheels - then epoxied the stock mounting brackets in. Secured the wire landing gear into the brackets with screws. I take off and land from tall grass, and these havn't loosened at all. If you wanted to do tricycle gear like my ES, just take the extra center bracket and mount it to the front of the plane, bend some wire into shape, and there you go. Yes, the ES taxies just fine without a steerable nose wheel.

On the rear tailwheel on the Mosa - I just mounted a half of a popsicle stick in the rear of the fuse - works great.

[Slent thndr]

ok thanks. Two of my pack have leaked, the other i stopped early but it was very hot. My charger is working fine with all my other batts though and it leakes during the end of the charge, not at all in flight. I think my charger just cant support that low of a mih batt or something... cant figure it out.

And i want to get a triton at some point anyway. I want to be able to cycle batts and see how many mihs are put into them and stuff.

[Slent thndr]

What if i just took the existing foam ailerons, and the existing servo system, but sliced open at the place where the control rod goes into the foam and place some tape in the aria to prevent the foam being damaged basically. this would prevent a lot of the slop wouldn't it?

[Mighty Wings Australia]

Just making the hole in the aileron larger than the wire and filling that hole with epoxy will probably be a good solution also( thats how mine is now and so far so good)

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

Mighty makes a good point - your idea would work too.

[Slent thndr]

ok thanks. I will try that and then see how it flies. I agree that the batts are probably the problem. If the problem persists after a few more cycles then I will invest in the lipos.

Thanks for all your guys help, and happy flying

[Noin]

Make sure your prop is not on backwards. Sounds silly but many people have done this before...don't ask me how I know that...lol. The numbers/letters on the prop face the same direction the plane flies.

[Slent thndr]

uh yeah lol I think I have it on right :p

thanks for the reminder though:)

[ChuckB]

Nitro,
I just starting to build a Formosa and will use the stock GWS-350C with "C" gearing. Hope to put a 2s1p lipo battery pack at 2100mah. From reading some of the forums I think I should put a carbon fiber rod down each side of the fuselage. (inside only) Did this also with my E-Starter and she has held up great. The biggest problem I think I will have is that I would like to place just one servo (HS-81 or HS-55) in the wing for my ailerons. Do you have any suggestions? Another not I will use a CF rod for the wing for strength.
Thanks,
ChuckB

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

Carbon rod in the wing is a great idea - although I just used the stock fiberglass rod and mine has held up fine through some serious aerobatics.

Carbon on the fuse is okay, but not manditory like the ES is.

The motor combo you have will fly the plane, but not expertly. Enough to have fun, but I would recommend going brushless as soon as possible.

If only running 7.2V - make sure you have her as light as possible, since she really needs at least 9.6V to fly well. No gear, on airleron servo, ect...

[Slent thndr]

So would you reccomend 11.1 V (3 cell)? Is that going to damage the stock motor?

[Steve]

You can't use a 3S lipo with a 350 motor. A better match for that would be a 7 cell NIMH. I don't have a Formosa, but i would think a 1050 7cell would work well. OR, just peer into the future and get the brushless set up and never look back. It's a whole different world and well worth the extra expense.

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

silent - yeah, the 11.1v 3S is too much for the 350 motor. Either go brushless and 3S, or go with the stock motor and a 9.6v nimh pack.

[Slent thndr]

well what if i got some kind of mod motor or something that could support the high voltage? You were suggesting moving up to a 400 motor and a different gearing weren't you?

I don't want to go brushless. I want this plane to be a smooth park flyer, allmost a trainer so that i can let other people fly. I already have speed with my combat wing.

Or do you think my problems would be fixed just by buying some 9.6 V NiMhs? and sticking with the stock power train? My batts are only 8.4 V.

[Slent thndr]

upgrade to the GWS 400C motor on a C gearbox

which of these do you mean?

http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/powersystem/powersystem.htm

Unfortunatly I have no real LHS, so i have to do all my RC shopping on tower hobbies. Because of that i am going to do one big order with all the things i need. My current plan is go get a triton, 3S lipos, and the '400C motor and C gearbox', if i can only find it.

[ChuckB]

Just an FYI for all of the Formosa flyers. I was at a LHS and they had a Formosa Plus add on kit. The cost was $16.00. What was included in the kit is as follows; Lexan Canopy and modified hatch, Unbreakable Lexan cowl, Spring wire main landing gear, tail wheel assembly and light weight foam wheels. After looking it over I couldn't resist in having one. As they said this is only just an upgrade.

Also, could you please post the recommended throws for Ailerons, Elevator and Rudder? I read that the recommended Elevator throw in the GWS Manual is incorrect.
ChuckB

[Slent thndr]

Hmm that is a good question chuck. From what I understand its all personal preference. What I do with my combat wing is set all the throws to 95% so that I can pull lots of quick aerobatics, and then when I want to do little banks i just move the stick a little.

But when i was just learning to fly I kept the throws at about 40%, to avoid overcompensating

[ChuckB]

Thanks for the quick reply. What I read in the GWS manual is that the elevator throw should be +/- 15 - 35 mm. I think it was Nitro said his throw was only half that amount. I guess with dual rates you can compensate for that amount.
ChuckB

[Ron]

Formosa does not require as much elevator movement as the instructions call for...I fly mine with about half the recommended throw, all the rudder I can get and recommended aileron to start.....I have since added a little more.....yes it works stock with 3 cell lithium, I flew mine that way for quite a while....just be a little careful on the throttle...eventually I changed to a brushless outrunner...eflite park 370 1080kv and 3 cell lithiums 1500 mah... APC electric 9 X 7.5 prop...this gives good performance and about 15 minutes flight per charge...have never put back in 1500 mah....and I fly the ****ens out of it for the full flight....lots of vertical moves.
It will easily do the intermediate pattern routine with this power setup. Has absolutely no bad habits, and lands at a very slow speed. Takeoffs hand launched are 1/3 throttle, give it a little push, and it's off. I have to admit though that the brushless setup really makes it " come alive" . I wasn't sure if I'd like this model when I built it, so went on the cheap for power. it is definitely worth the extra for
the brushless motor. Great little model.

[Noin]

Ron, your APC prop, is it the "electric" version with the thicker more heavy duty hub or a "slow fly" version from APC.

[Ron]

It is the electric prop...... I tried the slow fly version also, it flies ok too, but I prefer the electric one with the thinner blades and heavier hub. It seems to have
more performance than the slow fly prop. vertical is not " unlimited" with this setup, and it isn't a rocket, but more than adequate for this model...big loops, good vertical....really good KE flight, which is where the other prop was a little lacking.
Inverted is just a matter of rolling upside down and no elevator compensation required....my C/G is a couple mm aft of that suggested in the instructions...
quite by accident I might add, but it seems right on the money.
It will KE from one end of the field to the other, then turn with elevator and KE all the way back as many times as you have the gumption to do it.

[Noin]

That sounds like the power level I am looking for in this plane. Thanks

[RacerPaul]

Are these available thru GWS?

Paul

[Steve]

If you're not going to go brushless and lipo, stick with the 350 with the C gear and the 1047 prop. The 400 is much heavier and will require a 3S lipo or an 8-10 cell NIMH which will be also quite heavy. All that weight will most likely kill whatever gains you get with the larger motor.

I think all you need is a larger NIMH like the 1300 KAN's I mentioned earlier

http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?cPath=3_5&products_id=695


Start with the 350 then move up to brushless later. You can tailor your brushless for your flying style...it doesn't have to be some kind of wild and crazy power plant. If and when you move to brushless, I would highly recommend the AXI or Hacker outrunners. Very sturdy little buggers and no gearboxes to mess with...a major plus!

Steve




motorwell what if i got some kind of mod motor or something that could support the high voltage? You were suggesting moving up to a 400 motor and a different gearing weren't you?

I don't want to go brushless. I want this plane to be a smooth park flyer, allmost a trainer so that i can let other people fly. I already have speed with my combat wing.

Or do you think my problems would be fixed just by buying some 9.6 V NiMhs? and sticking with the stock power train? My batts are only 8.4 V.

[Mighty Wings Australia]

I real quick question,
Is this canopy clear and is it the same shape at the original or a differant profile.
I would love I clear canopy for mine and a higher profile would also suit my taste.
regards
Alexis

[ChuckB]

Alexix,
The canopy is clear. I called Sure-Flight today and they still have a couple of kits.
ChuckB

[Noin]

Whats the contact info for Sure-Flight?

[Mighty Wings Australia]

I just found a sureflite group on RC groups and the adress for sure flite direct is sureflite.com I just tried getting onto thier page and timed out trying to log in, hope you have better luck was all inspired to look at thier products after a quick visit to the newsgroup.
alexis

[ChuckB]

This is the address. I don't know why they have it this was but we all know them as SureFlite. They are a GWS distributor here in San Diego. The update kit for the Formosa is know as "Formosa Plus". Hope this helps!!!
Regards,
Chuck B.


GWS-Online.com


10054 Mesa Ridge Court,
Suite 110,
San Diego, CA 92121
USA

sales@gws-online.com http://www.sureflite.com/images/Photos/GWS%20Store01_s.jpg

Phone : 858-404-0102
Fax : 858-404-0108
or <www.sureflite.com>
They are the same.

[Mighty Wings Australia]

Thanks Chuck, I'm still having trouble getting in to thier web page but I have now atleast been able to email them direct with questions.
regards
Alexis

[EpoweredRc]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/frm4.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/frm3.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/frm2.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y283/nitroaddict/frm1.jpg

Thats a nice looking plane.I dont think i have seen one,where online would you get one?

[Watts up]

http://www.fellsideprecisioncutting.co.uk/brushless_motor_mounts.htm

A mount for a brushless conversion to a typhoon micro 6

[Slent thndr]

i get allmost everything on www.towerhobbies.com (http://www.towerhobbies.com)

and guys, what about these batts for the mosa?

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000628159&I=LXHHU6&P=K

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000628159&I=LXGBM2&P=K

[Slent thndr]

Thanks for the quick reply. What I read in the GWS manual is that the elevator throw should be +/- 15 - 35 mm. I think it was Nitro said his throw was only half that amount. I guess with dual rates you can compensate for that amount.
ChuckB

wouldnt you just want the maximum throw possible and then trim it out on the radio?

[Noin]

Not necessarily because if you do it that way you lose the mechanical advantage. Why would you want to do it that way anyways? Initially all planes should be set up with a little more than the manufacturer recommendations and the radio used to set it to the manufacturer recommendation. But after you have flown the plane and know what throws are required you should go back into the programming and set the travels to 100% then adjust the linkages to obtain the throws required for flight.

[Steve]

Someone else here can comment, but I don't think you want those GWS batts. They just can't deliver the current you want.

Maybe these?

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGBM4&P=K

Pretty heavy at 6oz. that's why people go to lipos.

i get allmost everything on www.towerhobbies.com (http://www.towerhobbies.com)

and guys, what about these batts for the mosa?

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000628159&I=LXHHU6&P=K

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000628159&I=LXGBM2&P=K

[Slent thndr]

Would it even fly at that weight? I was saying this Great Planes one (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000628159&I=LXGBM2&P=K) because its only like 3 oz. Its only 650 mih though.

I dont know, I guess its worth worth it to just get lipos. I wanted the triton anyway. Sry i'm going around and around. But at this point I see no reason to invest $40 in a bunch oh NiMhs now that will be confined to a drawer later when i go lipo. I might as well spend $175 going lipo now.

[Unbalanced prop]

I don't want to go brushless. I want this plane to be a smooth park flyer, allmost a trainer so that i can let other people fly. I already have speed with my combat wing.

A friend of mine has a Formosa he has been flying stock with 2S lipols for almost two years. He got 52 filghts on the first motor and for $9 got a second motor and put 47 flights on it. The stock setup flys very gently but will still do aeobatics easily.:cool: He has had so much success with it, I am probably going to break down and get me one too.:D

Doug

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

Sorry everyne - Been away for a bit. Back now....Silent - Just because you get a brushless motor, doesn't mean you have to fly it that crazy. You can tailor it to your needs.

Those GWS 9.6v packs will work, but there is a compromise between those and the KANs, the KANs will add alot of weight, but give more amps, the AAA batts will weight alot less but not produce many amps. I have personally flown the Formosa on a 350 motor with the 9.6v GWS batts and it flys nice. Not great, but nice.

[Slent thndr]

Yes I know that I would be better off with brushless but i'm not willing to spend that much on this plane. At least not just yet.

What would be the performance of a formosa with stock 350 drive train and a GWS 9.6V vs. a formosa with 400 motor and 11.1V kokam lipo?

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

with the 400, it would be a bit quicker and more powerful, but much heavier - alot more speed, higher wing loading.

go with the 400 if you want a pattern plane, go with the 350 if you want a docile park flyer that can also do mild aerobatics.

[Slent thndr]

If i stay with the 350 though i cant get lipos right? becuase 7.2 is not enough and 11.1 will fry it.

Is 350 the same motor that the e starter comes with?

[Ron]

flew mine on the stock 350 and 3S lithiums for quite a few flights...just don't be heavy on the throttle...

[Slent thndr]

Well I dont know. I usually am heavy on the throttle. what do you mean by 'quite a few flights'? did it eventually get fried or did you upgrade?

Actually my friends stock e estarter has 2S lipos and i flew it just fine.

[Unbalanced prop]

If i stay with the 350 though i cant get lipos right? becuase 7.2 is not enough and 11.1 will fry it.

Is 350 the same motor that the e starter comes with?

Like I said, a friend of mine flys his stock Formosa on 2S lipols with very good performance. I think the light weight of the lipols compared to round cells has a lot to do with it. I have a MM switchback with a 350 motor and C gearing that also flys quite well on 2S packs. 2S packs will work fine with the 350 motor and the right sized prop and gearing.

Doug

[Ron]

I upgraded because I had a brushless lying in the drawer with no home, and I decided that since I liked the Formosa so much, it deserved a try on the upgraded power system....Park 370 1080kv outrunner.... It does do much better with this setup, and I would recommend it, but it's not mandatory for decent performance

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

The plane will fly with a 2S pack, but it will lack alot of performance.

You can always get a 3S pack, and set the throttle ATV to only 70%. That is what I did with my girlfriends GWS Beaver, and it is flying great after many flights.

[Slent thndr]

Well maybe, but could you give me a link to the 400 motor your talking about? I might get it and the 3S lipos. That way if I get brushless later on the batts will work.

And could you post a pic of the popsicle stick assembly you made for the tail wheel? was it on the rudder or fixed?

[Slent thndr]

btw guys, I just epoxy glued the rods into the ailarons, and it fixed most of the slack. Of course its not as good as some of the dual servo, balsa fixes out there but I would recomend it as an easy 5 min way to fix the problem on a brushed plane.

[Slent thndr]

And one more thing. Lest say I had a 3S Kokam 1500 Mih batt. Would it work in my Combat Wing XE2 in a pinch? I know it wouldn't be ideal, but would it fly?

The Combat Wing batts are 8 Cell NiCds, 1500 Mih

http://www.combatwings.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=46&products_id=34&product_name=KR-1500%20AUL

Its probably around the same voltage, so might it work?

and props. what prop should i use with the 400 motor on land? what should i use on water?

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

Here is a link to the 400 motor on C gearing:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHHL6&P=0


Depending on what the batts are rated at - you can either go with a GWS 10x6 prop, or 9x6.

As for the popsicle stick - I simply shoved it up the center of the fuse, on the bottom, about 2 inches from the tail.

[Slent thndr]

Thank you for posting the link to the motor.

From what I understand the 9x6 prop is the stock prop that I already have, so I guess I can keep that.

And wasn't it said that I would need a 3 blade prop for flying on water? I live near a lake so I bought the GWS pontoons, and intend to fly out on the water. I know nothing about 3 blade props so if it is true that I need one could you direct me to a good one?

Thanks, and I will try the popsicle stick later today. Is it still possible to steer at all with it though? I guess my question is will the rudder steer it any without a wheel being attached to it? Sry this is my first plane with landing gear and full control surfaces. My only other plane is a wing.

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

Unless you really jack up the height on the pontoons, I imagine that you will need a 3 bladed prop so that you don't clip the water. I'm not sure which prop you would use though - maybe an 8x6?

Yup - steers great without a steerable tailwheel - even on the grass. Sometimes, if it's slow to come around, just give it a burst of throttle to get some air over the rudder.

[Slent thndr]

hmm

what about this then:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVJ19&P=7

or this:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXR521&P=ML

those are the only 3 blade 8x6 props I see on tower. I dont know much about props.

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

I can't find any 8x6 3 bladed props. Found that GWS makes a 9x7 3 bladed and it says you can use it on the 400 motor.

http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_info.php?cPath=4_27&products_id=83

[Slent thndr]

will these not work?

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXVJ19&P=7 (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXVJ19&P=7)

or this:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXR521&P=ML

will the 3 plade perform well on the ground too or will i have to keep switching them

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

I don't think those will work - they are for glow powered engines, not electic motors.

Sure, you can use it anywhere - of course, you can try to use the 2 bladed prop first - it might work. Taxi around a bit in the water and see if the prop catches the water at all.

[Ron]

as long as the prop clears the tips of the floats it will work fine on water....
If it has enough on wheels to take off, it'll get off water ok. I never change props for float flying...just make sure the floats stick out forward of the prop by an inch or so. 2 blade will be ok.

[Slent thndr]

Ok well this is the only choice as far as an electric 3 blade prop.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHHZ2&P=0 (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHHZ2&P=0)
It is the same length as my 2 blade though so I assume it would not be any better on the water. I'll just stick with the 2 blade.

Ok thanks guys for your help. I installed the Popsicle stick tail wheel yesterday and it looks great. I will get the 400 motor on C, a triton, 2 3S lipos one big one small, and I think that’s it.

[Slent thndr]

Wait, this will all work with my Castle Creations Pixie 20P ESC right?

And the last thing to decide is what kinds of 3S lipos to get. My idea was to have a heavy, high mih one and a lighter, low mih one. That’s assuming that the plane would be faster with the lighter one. I am currently considering two brands: Kokam, and Electrifly. Can someone tell me what I should get?

Here is the page on tower:
http://www.towerhobbies.com/listings/cat-cat-a.html (http://www.towerhobbies.com/listings/cat-cat-a.html)
you have to scroll down to the aircraft batt section and click on lithium.

The high mih electrifly batts are backordered so these are the ones i am considering:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFKA1&P=K

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJSJ0&P=ML

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJSH8&P=K

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKAJ3&P=0

[Slent thndr]

Anyone there? :confused: I was going to place the order (decided just to get one lipo to start with), but then i realized that the 400 size motor system says it requires an GWS 11x8 or 11x4.7. Is this true, and if so which one? you had just said to use the same 9x7 prop.

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

Not sure on that - but you can pretty much put any prop on any motor, as long as it doesn't over or under amp the motor.

An APC 9x7.5 will draw similar amps to a 11x4.7 so you should be okay - will just increase the speed alot. Which lipo are you getting?

[Slent thndr]

Sry I couldn't wait. I had to place the order before the work week started (they dont ship on the weekends). There were some car parts in the order that i needed before an event :) .

Thanks for answering about the prop though. I figured the 9x7.5 one would probably work because thats what you said earlier

I got just one to start with, this one:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXFKA1&P=K

Its a 1500 mAH 3S Kokam.

Hope it works. I figured it would be easyer to step into the lipo world with just one to worry about. :o

Thanks for all your help! May your Formosas live forever!

[Rcflyer4]

Hi All. Slent you made a good choice with the Kokam 3 cell 1500 mAh battery pack, it's a great battery and comes with an installed Dean's connector to boot.

[Slent thndr]

Glad to hear it. I use all deans connectors. They are the best.

[Evo]

I've been having a blast with my Formosa.
Himax 2025 geared to a 13T/62T gearbox (to start :)
GWS 9X5 Prop
Kokam 1500 3S 10C

Going from my EStarter to this was a lot of fun.

I am having a little problem in the Looping department.
gentle loops aren't a problem but as soon as I try more aggressive loops the plane starts to curl out of them. I found applying a little left rudder or aileron bring it back into line but I can't figure out where it comes from.

My CG is right on the money (I'm actually thinking about bringing it forward for a little more action). All my sufaces look straight. Measure true to the nose. Stab is parallel to the wings. Tail fin is 90 deg. off the wings and stab.

When I look at the elevator surface when it's in full up and down, it looks parallel to all other surfaces.

I'm wondering if the loose ailerons that Nitroaddict had would cause this problem. Anyone have any suggestions.

[Evo]

Oh ya... my paint job :)

[Steve]

Wow! Nice job on the paint! When you say agressive loops...do you mean high speed? Probably the natural tendency of the prop to spin you out of level...gyroscopic precession or some such thing....compensating with rudder is probably the right thing to do or back off the throttle as you pull it around.

[Slent thndr]

Hey guys
All the parts came and I set everything up and went on the maiden last night. I didn't have time to charge the lipo so I flew with it how it was... from the factory at about 11.5V. It was a lot better than before but I still think its not powerful enough. I assume that it will be a lot better with the lipo fully charged (12.6V)?

I also found that it didn't seem to want to get that high. I am comparing this to a friends stock estarter running on 2S 1500 mAH lipo. So back home after the maiden I checked and fixed a few things.

First I moved the rx to the lower compartment on top of the wing with the esc, that way I could move the batt back as far as possible and Velcro it in place. Before there wasn't enough room for both in the cockpit and I had to tape the cockpit on. My rx is a Hitec Micro 555 by the way.

I also noticed that in neutral the ailerons were aimed a little down (still on the single servo design). So i made the linkages a bit shorter and now at neutral they point just a bit up.

Oh and I finished building the GWS Pontoons. Dang all the GWS instruction sheets really really stink. Not to complain or anything. Anyway I thought that the pontoons were probably to close together how they had them so I widened everything a bit. The prop clearing might end up being a problem but i doubt it. I sealed the pontoons with a little bit of painters caulk; The epoxy was definitely not doing it. I don't think it added a lot of weight but the whole pontoon subassembly is 5 oz though with surprised me. I hope it even flies.

[Evo]

Heya Steve,
Thanks for the compliment.
Just to clarify the problem. When I perform a loop with my estarter, with full up elevator, the loop is clean (so long as I was entering the loop straight and level).
With the Formosa, I can't excede 1/2 up elevator with out the plane curling out of the loop (or requiring some other corrective input). I tried performing a loop with 0 throttle (steep decent and pull out into a loop) and I ended up fighting the plane 2/3's into the loop (a little scary but i was about 2-3 mistakes high at the point of the loop. What a mystery... :)

[berryulson]

I fly GWS floats on the Formosa with a 10X7 prop without problems. I do have a modified enlarged rudder but I'm sure water taxiing will be breeze with the stock tail too. You can really drive it around on the water. Make sure you locate the step on the floats at the CG. The Formosa's landing characteristics make it ideal for floats but you'll need more power for the added weight.

With the Himaxx 2812-850 I was wide open for pretty much the whole flight but with the 2816 you have enough power for sport aerobatics.

This is an outstanding flying plane. Flies like a Quiet Storm Mini!

[Slent thndr]

Oh. Will it work with just a 400 motor? *Gasp* ok guys how much would it cost to get a cheap brushless on this thing.

[Unbalanced prop]

Cheap brushless motor for $26 that mounts right in a GWS gear box.

http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_info.php?cPath=104_105&products_id=889

Cheap brushless ESC for $21.

http://www.balsapr.com/catalog/speedc/speedControllersBrushlessView.asp?ProductId=V75375 0

Doug

[Slent thndr]

Wow. But is that gonna be any good?

[Unbalanced prop]

Wow. But is that gonna be any good?

Can't tell you from personal experience, but it has to be better then the stock brushed setup. here is a link to a guy who tried it and liked it!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=390641

Doug

[Ribcracker]

Guys,
I'm almost finished with my Formosa and I don't like the way the hinges turned out. There is far too much daylight through there and I can tell there will be flutter problems as well as air slipping through. Can I use packing tape to seal the gaps and stabilize the surfaces? If so, should I put it on the top or the bottom? What about tape on the leading edges for protection?
Also, I see that a 2 cell will slide in and under but a 3 cell? No way! So... how did you remove the material? Any tips?
This thread is what made me decide to try a Formosa. Thanks for all your help.
Peace,
Ribcracker

[Plane_freak]

I am planning on buying a Formosa when I get the cash. I have watched my brother put together a few of the GWS foamies and I have even done two myself. I noticed that some of you have covered your control surfaces with monokote or alike. Does it work the same as covering balsa? I have also noticed that your planes look like the small marks and indentations in the foam have all been filled in. How did you do that?:confused: One more thing, eill coverlite(coverrite) work the same as Monokote?
Can you use paint on foam of will it break down like ca glue does to foam?

[berryulson]

Guys,
There is far too much daylight through there and I can tell there will be flutter problems as well as air slipping through.
Peace,
Ribcracker

If you plan on flying your Formosa aggressively, dual airleron servos and extra wing reinforcements are a good idea. The stock airleron linkage will definitely flutter in high G maneuvers.

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

ribcracker - the above poster is correct, and to answe your questions - yes, you can use packing tape to cover the gap - you only need it on one side though.

Planefreak - I used balsarite spackle to fill in the marks on my foam and used monokote to cover the control surfaces but I made mine out of balsa instead of the foam. You can cover the foam with covering too, but it needs to be a lightweight and low temp film. Solarfilm seems to be the best choice with econokote being okay too, but much heavier. Alot of paints will eat the foam, but most spray paints can be applied if you do several very very thin coats. I use pactra racing finish, which is designed for RC car bodies and it works great. Thats what I used in the photos at the beginning of this thread.

[Ron]

I used Scotch brand Magic tape to seal the hinge gaps, both sides of each surface. I used the stock aileron setup, and have no " flutter" problems at all. this model has been flown fairly aggressively too. regarding the room for the 3 cell lithiums, the foam was carved out of the battery compartment before the fuselage was glued together.. no extra wing stiffening was used, but the model was covered in Solite which is a low temperature film. If you get the foam too warm when covering, the beads will expand, and you will get a rough surface.

[Slent thndr]

I dont think you should take out any of the foam. My formosa was way front heavy and i had to move the rx to the bottom compartment with the esc and move my 3S lipo all the way back touching the servos. I had a heavyer motor though. Mabye you dont have this problem.

[Ribcracker]

Berry- If, in fact, I DO need to convert to dual aileron servos I will do so. I HOPE that that won't be neccessary. I prefer flying over building.

Nitro- Does it matter which side the tape goes on? Should I tape the leading edges and belly for protection. I won't be using landing gear.

Ron- Are you talking about regular Scotch tape like you use for wrapping Xmas presents? Unfortunately, I didn't have the foresight to carve out some battery room before gluing the halves together. What about an angle bracket with some coarse sandpaper glued to it?

Thunder- I'm glad you said that. I'd hate to weaken the structure if it isn't neccessary. I'll check the balance after my gear is installed. Maybe I won't have to cut. Wouldn't that be great?

You guys are a tremendous help. It's good to have your ideas and guidance while I learn these ropes. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Peace,
Rib

[nadt770]

Where abouts in RR are you? Just yesterday I test flew my Formosa at Gatis School Elementary here in RR. I'm a 2 minute walk from the school. I have a Mega 16/15/8, Polyquest 3s-2600, CC-35, APC-E 9X6. Flew real well. A bit jumpy in the wind, but thats to be expected with a light foamy. Give me a call if you like @ 828-0709. We can do some FFF (Formosa Formation Flying):D. The real coincedance is that also yesterday my buddy, Uglyplane, e-mailed me to tell me about this site. For some reason the first forum I went to was pattern planes. My first stop is usualy the Corona heli stuff. I'm looking forward to hearing from you.

BTW, I'm 49 years old and have been in r/c for 35 years. I'm also a reformed nitro addict. Shortly after I taught Uglyplane to fly(nitro) he showed up with a real ugly electric called a Blue Foamy. This was about 7 years ago. I ridiculed Uglyplane and his wimpy electric attempts mercilessly, that is until I flew a Zagi. I haven't flown a nitro plane since!

John

[Slent thndr]

Oh man if u like flying wings than u definitly need to try a combat wing.

www.combatwings.com (http://www.combatwings.com)
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=529
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326

Flew the first 'real' maiden on my Formosa yesterday with the 3S lipo fully charged and the 400 motor. I can tell its a little heavy but it was doing pretty well. Rolls no problem. Loops were hard. It more tries to do a verticle but it cant, so it just stalls and heads for destruction. Thats with full throttle. Any tips?

[nadt770]

Slent thndr, I just got back from another flight. I'm at about 18-20 minutes into the charge on my Polyquest 3s-2600, and it still has plenty of oomph. It will not climb straight up forever but it keeps going for awhile. I'm REAL happy with the Mega 16/15/8 and APC-E 9X6 direct drive. I would like to try a 9X7 or 9X8 but can't find one. However the 9X6 is working very well and I seem to be getting good flight duration.

If there is any way you could go for the Mega brushless I think you would be very happy. BTW, my Mega is mounted to the GWS S400 direct drive mount.

John

[nadt770]

What a fitting tribute (your avitar) to the best flying buddy a guy could ever have! I have been flying r/c for 37 years starting at age 12. I can't even begin to count the weekends, both Sat. and Sun. that my Dad sat in the hot sun so I could fly. I'm sure there were plenty of times he would have much rather been doing something else. He taught me to fly the big ones and I taught him to fly the models. Fortunately I had much better luck that he did:D. My Dad is now 90 and I can't bear the thought of him passing.

John

[uglyplane]

Hey J,
Glad to see your Formosa is flying! Is that your fg aerobat in your avatar? Has it flown? I sure miss our flying sessions at the school!:(
Too many trees here to easily find a good flying spot.....
Glad to see that you are flying again!:)

Bill

[Ribcracker]

After countless hours of gluing, painting, and fussing with my Formosa, I finally took it out for it's maiden. The climb out was text book and it looked like it would need very little trimming. It was out about 100 yards and about 200 feet up when it suddenly nose-dived and perpendiculared into the ground at a very high rate of speed. Yes, it was a perfect flight...for about 10 seconds. As you might guess, the damage is extensive. After the shock wore off (actually, it hasn't yet), I tried to figure out what might have gone wrong and then I noticed that...I hadn't extended the antenna on the Tx.
Could this be what caused the crash? At 100 yards out? I have never done a range check because I have been flying for a couple of years without any such problems. I have discovered in the past that my antenna was down and quickly pulled it up without consequence. This time I wasn't so lucky.
Has anybody had a similar experience?
Woe is me.

[nadt770]

Ribcracker, sorry to hear about that. First flight mishaps are always a major bummer. I always do a range check before a maiden and rarely do one after that unless I change something. I think 100 yards with the ant. collapsed is pushing it. I once was flying my JR when someone ran over to tell me my ant. was down. Not sure how far away I got and it was a glow plane. I think electrics are more demanding then glow as far as a strong signal is concerned.

John

[Slent thndr]

Bummer dude. Will you be able to fix it up with epoxy or is it to be decommissioned? Worst case buy another for $40 and transfer the electronics. I know, a lot of work.

I always try and check the antenna before I launch. Still I have forgotten some times. It was with my Combat Wing so I just nosed into the ground real quick one i noticed it (no damage of course) extended the antenna and launched again. ;)

Hey guys, I need to pick a brushless system for my Formosa. I was float flying earlier today but my current setup is so underpowered with the floats on and everything, the flight characteristics resembled those of a rock. I couldn't take of on the water so i tried throwing it, but it just slowly sinks to the sea no matter what you do. This is with a 400 motor and a 3S1P 1500 mAH lipo.

So brushless... Planning on spending $100-$130 on the total upgrade. What do you guys recommend and where do they sell it?

[Plane_freak]

I can't say I know what that is like but I have crashed my airplanes. It probably was the problem not extending the antenna. Sorry about the plane sounded like you spent hours trying to get it perfect.:(

[uglyplane]

Ribcracker, sorry to hear about that. First flight mishaps are always a major bummer. I always do a range check before a maiden and rarely do one after that unless I change something. I think 100 yards with the ant. collapsed is pushing it. I once was flying my JR when someone ran over to tell me my ant. was down. Not sure how far away I got and it was a glow plane. I think electrics are more demanding then glow as far as a strong signal is concerned.

John

Hey dood! Are you flying that plane in your avatar? Did you get the HB links and pic I sent?

Bill

[Noin]

Radios will not transmit a reliable signal past 100' with the antenna down. If you were 100 yards away it is pretty much guaranteed the cause of your crash. Always do a range check and then extend the antenna. Make it a routine and you will not forget.

[Slent thndr]

One other thing I noticed is that I seem to have an overabundance of thrust, but no speed. I think the 400 motor (on whatever gearbox you gave me the link for) is geared two low. Would a smaller prop help?

Well that’s irrelevant anyway because I am going to break down and get a brushless system in it. I’m looking at the $100-$120 price range. I want something that I can use to do good verticals, lots of aerobatics, and that can fly the plane decently with the floats on it. All that with a 3S 1500 mAH 8C Lipo. Speed is of course always nice as well. I mainly see people with Himax and Mega brand motors. What is the difference? I don’t know anything about the Mega line, but with the Himax is it basically where the higher number motors are better? Where can I go to see and buy all the different brushless motors? And what ESC would I need… PHX-25 any good? And would I want direct mount or geared?

Also are there any other upgrades i will need to do to cope with the speed? Monocoating the ailarons or something?

Oh and here is a pic of my Formosa with the floats. I diddn't feel like a fancy paint job. Not after spending all that time decorating the combat wing. And this way I can epoxy it back together when it breaks without worrying about the paint matching and everything.

[Mighty Wings Australia]

I have mixed emotions on this one ribcracker, first of all I'm sorry that it happened to you but then I'm happy to know that I'm not the only fool to do that very same thing, in fact your acount of that first flight is as if you wer e there when I did it to my formosa on its maiden, thankfully even though the fuselage was broken in half I was back in the air within 15 minutes and two minute after that I had forgatten the whole incident from the shear joy of chucking around a formosa, hope yours is repairable and that you also feel the joy.
best wishes
Alexis

[Reformed Nitroaddict]

silent - For that setup - go with a himax 2025/4200 and a 2100mah 3S pack.

Run an APC 10x6 or 10x7 prop and you will be fine.

[Slent thndr]

Thanks for the reply, but I've been hangin out on on some other fourums (sorry guys) and come up with a differant setup. I think that the direct drive outrunner brushless motors actually have the edge for planes like the formosa. I'm planning on going with the Hacker A20 20L. If I prop it at 12A I will be able to use my existing 1500 mAh 8C kokam lipo, and if that doesn't feel like enough I will prop it at 18 or 20A and get a PolyQuest 1800N 3S pack to support it.

I could get a more powerfull outrunner, but then I would need to add all kinds or reinforcements to cope with the speed, and performance would be similar.

With this setup I will have 'unlimited verticle' and pretty fast speeds, but hopedully not enough to smash the plane to bits at level flight. I will still have to watch the dives though:) .

But I still have to figure out what props to use to amp it at 12A and at 18A. I have this site that sells all kinds of APC E props. http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=2209
Could you reccomend some?

[Ribcracker]

Guys,
I DID rebuild the Formosa. The plane was torn apart but the electronics survived (amazingly). It glued back into shape fairly well but the front was crushed so bad that I couldn't re-use the stick mount. I glued a thin-ply firewall onto the front. Then I glued a braced stick to a ply plate which I screwed to the firewall. She looks like hell but man, can she fly. A real handful though. I can see why the box says "for advanced flyers". You can't let your guard down because it won't correct itself. It seems to get about 200 ft. of vertical with my Ultrafly A/30/24 before it falls out. What a trip!

[Unbalanced prop]

Ribcracker.............Congrats on the rebuild and remaiden.:D Sounds like the Formosa will work out just fine for you.

Doug

[Slent thndr]

Guys, now that I am going to have a 200W Brushless in my Formosa, do I need to do any reinforcement? Do I need to add dual aileron servos?

[Slent thndr]

Will I need to glass it? It adds weight and is a big production. I will probably want to at least put strapping tape on the control surfaces and on the leading edges of the wing and stuff right? Will super77 spray glue work wing styrofoam? I know it works with EPP.

Will I need to go to dual ailaron servos and/or balsa ailerons? My outrunner system will have about double the power of Reformed Nitroaddict's Formosa. And what are 'mini clips' or whatever you used on the linkages for the ailerons?

Thanks guys

[Slent thndr]

Anyone here?

[Ron]

single aileron servo works fine, just make sure all your linkages are tight, and it's adjusted properly...I covered mine with solite ( Nelson Litefilm) makes a nice smooth surface, and strengthens it lots. This model only needs about 100 watts to perform really well. Any more is just a waste, as the model isn't made to stand the stress. You can beef it up, but then it just gets heavier and doesn't fly as nicely, so you are then on the " back side of the curve" so to speak. I didn't need balsa ailerons, it just adds weight, and the stock ones are more than adequate for the type of flying this model is designed for. They just have to be done correctly.
more important than lots of power....build it as straight as possible.

[Mighty Wings Australia]

Thanks Ron,
This is what I said back a few pages ago,the stock GWS system may look under engineered but it does work well,providing all is set up properly. when it comes to the balsa ailerons you are potentially increasing the chances of flutter as you increase the weight of the control surface, just make sure you don't have slop in the system.
regards
Alexis

[Slent thndr]

Thanks for the replies
I have 2 extra HS-55s sitting so I figure 'why not' add dual servos on the ailerons.

Ok so you reccomend against glassing. I really diddn't want that big project anyway. But should I tape the leading edges or something? What can I do to easily make it stronger?

[Mighty Wings Australia]

You could add a piece of tape to the leading edges I'm sure that would at least make it a little more ding resistant, my Formosa is covered with world models lighttex wich seems to be a midle weight covering that goes onto foam quite happily. As far as strengthening it up I would think that the covering adds some torsional strength but thats about it.As I've said before my formosa is essentially stock apart from the motor and batteries and i love it, so far apart from the arial down incident on its first flight it has had a couple of real dumb thumd arrivals and the worst damage to date is pulling the wing mounting nut assembly out, and that seems to happen so well that its almost like it was designed that way to keep the rest of the airframe intact when an arrival does occur.

[Slent thndr]

The motor and ESC came. I'm still waiting for the battery to come. I have most of the stiff installed. I was very impressed with the quality of the motor and the many mounting options it comes with. I bought an alluminum mount from espritmodel, and it attaches to the motor fine, and aligns up well with the cowling, but I'ts not perfect. I ended up with a split stick. Alls well now though. I hope to have everything hooked up by the end of the weekend.

I decided to just use the existing foam control surfaces and cover them with red Combat Wing tape and Super 77 spray glue. This worked well, althought my lack of exirianced produced many wrincles and a warped (mostly fixed) rudder. I figure oh well, if it doesn't work I'll just make some outa balsa

[Ron]

I don't know why everyone tries to " improve" the Formosa....usually you just make it not quite as good .... warped rudder/ailerons/elevator, is the main reason this model may not fly well.

[scalercflyer]

Greetings All!!! I purchashed a FORMOSA kit through E-Bay on a whim about 6 months ago (haven't built it yet). At the NEAT fair in NY state 2 weeks ago I had a conversation with a pilot who walked by me with a FORMOSA in his hand. We chatted for a few minutes while he showed me his setup (brushless outrunner, Li-plo, etc). He mentioned to me that I should tag along since he was about to fly it. Of course I had never seen one fly "in person" so I went with him. I expected him to just hand launch it. WRONG!! He cracked the throttle and just dropped it! It went straight up almost out of sight in seconds! :eek: After I wiped off my chin and picked my jaw off the ground I watched it fly for a while. Boys, it really does fly like everyone says! I immediately went and bought the whole setup (Hacker 20-20L outrunner, 20 amp, controller and Thunder power 1330mah, 11.0 volt batt, 10-4.7 prop). Talk about swallowing the hook, line and sinker! This will be my winter build. I can't wait! BTW, a piece of NYROD epoxied into the airleron will fix the linkage problem. All the Best to you pattern Guys. Martin

[allenb]

After reading this thread I decided to buy a Formosa. It will be my first electric plane. Pardon my novice questions.

I ordered a Himax 2015-4100 and a 10amp Castle Creations ESC. I plan to use a 3S lipoly. Will the BEC allow enough current to drive 4 HS-55 servos or do I need to run a separate receiver battery?

I read the instruction manual for the ESC and it indicates that the higher the battery voltage, the fewer servos you can run. Seems counterintuitive to me, but I'm sure there is a good reason.

With this motor configuration, what's a good battery capacity to run to achieve appropriate flying weight?

Thanks,
Allen

[Ron]

hi Allen:.....firstly I think you would be better off with a 20 amp speed control
and if I were you, ( but that's just my opinion).I would cover the model with solite/litefilm to add not only looks , but strength....That being said, I definitely would not glass the wings or fuselage as this adds weight which this model does not need. Next...only use three servos...I used one for the ailerons, took a few minutes to set it up correctly, and its got literally 100s of flights on it, and works great.I fly pattern planes on a regular basis.... larger ones, I'm fussy about setting up my models for flight, this system works fine....for the tail surfaces, I used two 4 gram servos and installed them in the after end of the fuselage about an inch in front of the LE of the horizontal stab with external linkages to the control surfaces....the reason for this will become obvious when you need to go about trimming. that is if you are the type who spends a little time on this part of model building and flying.Balancing the model was not a problem. Just be sure that you make the slot for the battery large enough to accept your 3 cell lithium before you assemble the fuselage.Do not use a receiver battery this adds weight and even an ounce will make a difference to how the model flies....this one flies great as is...it doesn't need help...I use the Eflite 370 outrunner, 9X7.5 APC electric prop, 3 cell 1500 mah lithiums and this puppy hunts...15 min flights, stable, goes exactly where you point it , does exactly what you ask of it, no more, no less...is quick enough to keep you on your toes, has enough vertical to get too small before it runs out of steam, slows to a walk for a landing, properly trimmed and balanced, will do KE circuits of a 400 ft runway for as long as you wish... no tuck to canopy or belly at all. My flights are usually about 15 min or so, it likely would go longer, but I can't keep up concentration long enough to still be " improving on something" for any longer.....This model likes to use lots of sky...ie.... big loops long uplines etc. It flies very much like a larger model in a small package...I use it to practise my pattern routine if I am not able to spend a couple hours with a larger model. No, do not use the LG, it is a PITA. Depending on the reduction you use, you likely will have as much power as mine does, which is lots.
This is NOT a 3D model and therefore I don't recommend using it that way. I only use full throttle on uplines. If you can draw about 9 to 10 amps on a 3 cell lithium, you will have lotsa performance. Trust me on this....been flying electric models since Waaay before it was cool.

[Ron]

Marty: welcome to Pattern stuff.......You will like the Formosa...I am not an ARF fan, and definitely don't as a rule even like foamies, but this one's a good one...just don't kill it by " glassing it for strength"... or adding any weight. Mine weighs 16 ounces with a 3 cell 1500 mah lithium flies well, and has LOTS of flights on it.

[rlmcgill714]

I totally trashed a mini funtana by not extending the antenna. The problem is that you don't think about it unill the plane starts acting erratic, and unless your up high enough, it's too late. Hate to hear it happened, but look at it this way; you'll not be likely to forget a second time!

[Wolfewind]

Reformed,

What prop are you using with 2015?

[Slent thndr]

Reformed, I would also be interested in what prop your using.

Wolf, Just for the record, the 2015 is a little underpowered for this plane. If your considering a power system I would reccomend a Hacker A20 20L outrunner motor with a X-20 Hacker ESC, PQ 1800N or TP 2100 LiPo, and a 9x6 (or mabye a 9x7.5) APC E prop. This setup runs at about 18A-20A and is perfect for the formosa.

If your stuck on inrunner motors then one of the Himax 2025 models would work also.

[Wolfewind]

You may be right SLENT. I have a HiMax 2812-0850 I could put in it, but I am looking for a good home for a 2015-4100 that I already have. I figure with a 1050 or 1320 3s, I might be able to bring the Formosa in at less than 16 oz AUW - in which case she might fly reasonably well on the smaller motor. She won't be a rocket, but I am just looking for a good aerobatic small park flyer for the local school yard.

[allenb]

I'm building my Formosa now. The canopy is held on by a magnet. Does this really work? My gut tells me it will fly off in the first 20 feet after take off.

[Ron]

If you are careful, and install the canopy correctly it should be ok...I've never lost mine even in KE flight. when it does come off though, it's because it slides sideways if my memory serves me correctly.

[Wolfewind]

If you replace the magnet system with velcro - or add some velcro - you will be more secure.

[rycomm]

Hi everyone. I'm building my second Formosa now. I sold my first because it didn't get flown that much at the time. I only flew it about 10 times. It was powered with a himaxx 2025-4200, but I ran it on 8 cell 600 Nicds. That probably why I didn't fly it too much. Lipos were brand new then, and couldn't supply the current. Now I cant decide how to power my current formosa. I am glassing it w .7oz glass and WB minwax. I know there is a split opinion on this. I am alos doing the dual ailerons servos and relocated the R/E servos to the rear for less slop. I am going to use LG, but it will be removable.
The motors in inventory are 2015-4100, would gear 4:1 for 8or9x7 or 5.5:1 if current is too high.
I also have an Eflight 400 920kv outrunner for 9x7 prop. This is how I'm leaning right now. I also have a similar Axi 221226, but it is already in service.
I have thought about getting a himaxx 2025 4200 or 5300.
The 2816 1080/1200 himaxx outrunners might be overkill, but are tempting me.
I want a fast but flyable plane with plent of thrust for verticals.
I'm also going to do a GWS p51 and super estarter for my winter projects.
Thanks for any info.
Ryan

[Ron]

fast??? that's a very subjective term....Your Park 400 that's 920kv will NOT be fast on 3S lithims....I have the Eflite park 370 1100kv outrunner on 3S with 9 X 7.5...This is quick enough to keep you on your toes, but not fast..... I have a young friend who thinks my Formosa is REALLY fast....thing is it doesn't have unlimited vertical, but it has more than ample........It weighs 16 ounces ready to fly, and will do everything I need it to do.Why do you want to add the weight of glassing it?? This means you need more power, then that adds more weight, so then you need more power then you have to " strengthen it" and it's a vicious circle....either paint it, or cover it with solite...it will be more than strong enough if you use soilte....put in about 100 to 115 watts, and it will have more than ample power...unless of course you want to do 3D stuff with it, and in that case you should use another model. No it doesn't need 2 aileron servos, but I guess that is an option. putting the tail servos at the rear of the fuselage is I think a good idea..about an inch forward of the leading edge of the horizontal stab....Far as the rest goes....build it straight, keep it light and it is fine basically with no mods....been flying mine as a practise model for 100's of flights...it has no bad habits, is totally predictable, at all speeds, goes exactly where it's pointed, and has enough " jam" to open eyes at the field.
It will handle a fair amount of wind. It doesn't really need improving or strengthening....just my opinion ( been flying electric since waaaay before it was cool )

[scalercflyer]

What do you Guys hinge the controls with? I will be building mine soon. martin

[Ron]

Martin.....I used CA hinges on mine and then sealed all the hinge gaps with solite.so far it's been fine. some have extended the ailerons and elevator right out to the ends which gets rid of the delicate little pieces at the end of the wing and horizontal stab....I've flown one that has had this done, and it feels OK...couldn't really feel any difference from mine...If I were to do another, this is the one mod I would likely make. That , and putting the servos for the rudder and elevator in the after part of the fuselage. That one had been glassed, so was heavier than mine, and had more power in it, but the extra weight took care of the extra power, so it was a wash performance wise. Hurry up and get building/assembling...You're gonna like it :-)

[ghee-grose]

I used Du-Bro micro hinges (nylon)

My canopy used to come off when I would do violent maneuvers like outside snaps.... I now put a small strip of electrical tape on the front edge.

[scalercflyer]

I have heard so much lately... glass it, don't glass it... how much difference in performance is it going to make if I do :confused: ? Apperance wise I think it will better. I plan to put a HACKER 20-20L in this plane. I think what little bit of weight glassing will add, won't make that much difference. This motor has b_lls enough to do the job done plus some :eek: . Thoughts/opinions please Gentlemen. I would like to hear from both sides of the fence. Martin

[Ron]

Martin:
you gotta do what you gotta do my advice is still... don't glass it..cover it with solite or some other light covering...strengthens it more than enough...looks good, and you have control over how much weight it gains.
with Glass you don't know how much you are adding till it's done. Then it's maybe a little late to worry about it...these smaller models can get heavy really quickly...ounce or two makes a difference....just my thoughts, mine has been covered in solite and still comes in at the suggested weight, flies well, and seems tough enough after a season of flying.
just be sure you build it straight no matter how it's finished....

[scalercflyer]

Ron, you have convinced me! SOLITE it is! Just happen to have some. Thanks for your advice! martin

[Ron]

you will NOT regret it Martin..it's a great little model..mine has 100's of flights on it, and is now hanging in the shop till the weather straightens up or I get tired of the indoor heli....it will fly in a relative wind that grounds my other models though....maybe because I'm thinking it's only foam and cheap to replace.... :-)

[Slent thndr]

My Formosa is so messed up. I did a fast, sloppy job gluing it together in the first place. I wasn't planning on putting a $200 brushless in it, I just thought it would be a cute little park flyer. Now its brushless and I wish I had done a better job. In an effort to make it better I attemted to cover the surfaces with covering tape, which I think just warped them and messed them up. On top of all that it has had few meetings with the ground, being my first brushless plane. So now my plan is to, over the next few months, scrap it and build a new formosa, transporting the electronics into it. So, I was planning on covering it with aerokote, as that was reccomended to me by another formosa pilot. Whats the diff tween that and solite?

[flypaper 2]

Do like Ron says. Don't cover it with anything. Do you want it to look pretty or fly well, can't have both. 15 ft away, flying, you can't tell what it's covered with. Friend of nine had one with the raw finish and one with the paint and glass. Paint and glass one is hanging on the wall. I flew both and there is a big difference. As Ron said, an oz. makes a difference. He runs a 2025-4200 Himax C drive. 2100 TP batt. I fly the Zero with the same settup and it flies pretty much the same. Don't try to gild the lily:p

[Slent thndr]

Thats what I was thinking when I built this formosa... someone told me 'build light, fly right". So i guess mabye I dont need to make another. Its just that its a little bent and dented. I guess I could just patch it up and not paint or cover it.

[Ron]

Straight is the most important part equal to or even more important than super lightness..a crooked model almost always flies like $%^&...

[planeman]

I've heard of flying the Formosa off of water.
Has anyone heard of this as well or can offer some advise on the floats needed?
Thanks!

e Formosa off of waterI've heard of flying t

[Ron]

I read that some fellow had done it and used the GWS floats, I think he was happy overall, ....I use the GWS floats on my TM 400 and they work great. That being said...I don't think the Formosa would be my first choice for a float plane..I'm partial to Flying boat types...except for the TM which has proven to be a great model on floats. Stock power on 3s lithiums.

[Slent thndr]

the GWS foam floats work great on my formosa (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHCR6&P=7)

I tried it first with the brushed setup, way too heavy. The plane couldn't take off by itsself (from the water) and if you threw it it wouldn't stay in the air for more than. Now with my Hacker A20 20L outrunner, lets just say theres more than enough power. I havn't tried but I could probably go vertical with the floats on!

[scalercflyer]

Guys, I saw a FORMOSA at the NEAT fair this year in upstate NY. It had a HACKER 20-20L, 3LIPOL 11.1 Volt pack and 20 AMP controller. I bought the kit on a whim on E-Bay but had never seen one fly. I went over to watch this guy fly the FORMOSA. The pilot held the plane vertically and just DROPPED IT! :eek: No throw, no running and then launch, just dropped it!! It went straight up and almost out of site in seconds! :eek: I was so impressed with the setup, I immediately went over and bought the whole package from a vendor!! Guess who's going to have a new bird come spring!!??? :) Yeah Baby! Martin

[Ron]

Get building Martin....do I have to come over there and twist your arm?? :D As I said before ...you're gonna like this model, but you gotta build it first:rolleyes: ...I just dusted off the building board for my new winter's project.......hint...it has a big round cowl :eek:

[scalercflyer]

Here is a Formosa up for bid on e-bay. Just thought you would like to know. Martin
GWS F3A - FORMOSA ARF- Radio Control Airplane Kit NIB

Item number: 6009130974

[ChuckB]

Well, I finally have my Formosa near completion. Please see the attached picture. The setup is as follows:

Aurora 400F Brushless with a 3:1 gear ratio
APC 9x6 prop to start with
3s1p 2100mach battery pack
AOW is 17oz

The Formosa is covered in EconoCote and I have a modified landing gear in it.
It was purchased from SureFlite which includes a Lexan Cowl and Canopy.
Have not installed the Lexan cowl or canopy utill I get a few flights on it.
ChuckB

(http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/3/2/8/1/0/634311.thumb?qTu6oJVgHxADnJA5qKWyWGVjZQN5YzcjMmf7Z mDmZGR2nJ6uM7HyZxMdpTIa)

[danny.act]

Interesting power set-up's for Formosa and video's
http://www.e-flightline.com/index.html


Mighty Wing,
Wich prop do you use with Mega 15/16/7 setup?

[danny.act]

Another link to Formosa power set-up and video's:
http://www.milehighrc.com/Videos.htm

[berryulson]

I added 6" to the span and an inch to the v-stab of my Formosa. Also changed the rudder to a counterbalance type. Not quite as quick but is even more graceful and closer to scale flight. Am (over) powering her with an Axi 2808 as it was being unused. Definitely flies heavier but also flies larger. This is my first experience with ridiclous power and I find I use it much more to maintain constant speeds in vertical lines than for blurry flybys, though they sure are fun too.

I added a fair amount of bracing in the fuse and wings so I can really horse her around. (I lost my floats to some violent snap rolls just after this shot was taken. Had to belly her in close to the boat, unfortunately the left wing hit the boat and bent the prop shaft.) This is an ideal plane for floats because of her nice landing characteristics and espcially because once in the air you can have a lot more fun with her than a high wing. This has to be one of the best flying foamies there is.

[Noin]

Berryulson,

Your Axi 2808 is it a 2808-24? I don't know much about Axi motors, not sure if a 2808 could be followed by another number or not. I am closing in on completion of my modified Formosa and need to find a power source for her. I read the post above that mentiond the Hacker A20-20L and started looking into those. Then I saw the Hacker A30-20L and thought perhaps it would fit the bill as well, with just a tad more power. What do you guys think?

[planeman]

I see that you are from Milton Ontario.
Where do you purchase your hobby stuff?
I live in Kitchener and have the FliteCraft hobby shop here!
Paul B

[Noin]

I visit Flitecraft, Skycraft and Hobby Hobby. If I can't find the part I am looking for from the LHS I will turn to the web in search of a supplier.

[Ron]

man .........more and more and more power...this model was designed for a speed 400 brushed motor, and something just a little hotter in terms of a brushless turns it into a really good model......but grossly overpowering it is NOT necessary in order to fly it as intended when it was designed...this was not meant to be a pylon racer, and was not meant to be a " 3D " model It was however designed to do large graceful " pattern" type aerobatics.... An Eflite park 370 1080kv 3s...1500mah lithiums...9X7.5 prop
makes it perform nicely for 20 min at a time....Himax 2015 4200 is also lots of power for this application.....next guys will be wanting to power this with an Axi 4130/20 and 3s4p......weight is an enemy here....keep it light....save even 1/4 ounces in building, and the plane will reward you for your efforts. As with most models...it responds better to weight reduction than it does to more power.

[Unbalanced prop]

Ditto what Ron said.

I just can't believe some of the power systems guys put in this plane.:eek: But then I wasn't crazy about muscle cars either.;)

Doug

[Slent thndr]

yeah. I put a Hacker A20-20L outrunner in mine. It's a lot of fun, but I probably would have been satisfied with much less in terms of power.

[trogdor]

Hi Silent, what prop and watts do you use/get with that Hacker?

[rcers]

You guys have to check this out - I saw Keith a couple of weeks ago and he had this at the field!

I love it, needless to say, I have the kit and now I need another Formosa!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=444268

Mike

[Noin]

That is awesome. Some very thoughful kit bashing. I love it.

[Stark Flyer]

Ron,

I am about to build the Formosa and also happen to have a couple of brushless motors, Eflight Park 370 1080kV and a BP-21 to choose from. I was going to use the BP-21 since it has a stick mount and I have another plane waiting for the Eflight motor. Sounds like you really like your Eflight setup. I may change my mind after reading about your results. How did you mount it?

Dick

[Ron]

Dick,
I just cut a piece of 1/16 plywood to mount the motor to......
I left an ear out below the motor to cut a notch in so that it slipped over the motormount stick that's supplied with the Formosa. Glued it to the stick with CA...and added two little triangle braces from the motormount plate to the stick.....plenty strong...cheap...simple and light. Hope this helps....if you don't quite get it, I can post a pic if you like.
Ron

[Stark Flyer]

Thanks Ron. No need for a pic.

Dick

[berryulson]

Regarding overpowering, I happily flew my Formosa on a Himaxx 2812 unitl I broke the motor shaft. and couldn't get it out. I'd been thinking of enlarging this plane and had an unused 2808 so I thought I'd experiment and I'm very glad I did. At 41" she had an enlarged stabs and weighed 24 oz. but still flew large graceful patterns as nicely as ever with an 1147 and even nicer with a 1138. No pylon racing, just rail-tracking pattern. Just wanted to share my experiences. (Overpowering is handy if you want to fly aerobatics with floats.)

[shonny]

Looks like a lot of fun for a rather moderate outlay! :)

[Jeff Boyd 2]

I have to say, the Formosa is one of the best foam park flyers I have flown. I am looking to get back into Pattern flying in the future, and this model (properly trimmed) will get your sticks working.
It's a bit "Plain Jane", I know. I must put an air-brush job on it soon. Very precise aerobatics, axial rolls, points and spins stop on cue, knife edge is great, verticals both up and down are true and lands beatifully. Will 3D OK, but more at home with pattern flying.
Some of the modifications are Hyperion undercarriage and spats for better ROG and looks. Used white NHP Micro-Fill to fill all the holes and moulding marks. For more precision I have mounted servos in the tail and 2 aileron servos in the wing, (instead of the original one) with short, direct linkages controlling the surfaces.
Has Himax with Gearbox, 9x6 prop, Jeti 18A ESC, 1050mAh 3S1P 15C LiPo. Runs at 160W Static.
Have put about 70 or 80 flights on it now. Flew great of out of the box, but has probably taken a period of about 30 flights to get it flying like it does now (I know, I get carried away with it all). Changes to thrust angles, props, throws, mixing and incidence adjustments all adding up to a sweet flying model. Well done GWS.

[Unbalanced prop]

Nice job Jeff!!:D I really like your landing gear mod. Could I have a little more detail of how you did it? I am going to assembly one soon and the gear looks like a great idea. Thanks

Doug

[Old Fart]

Oh ya... my paint job :)

What did you use for paint?

Impressive!

Jeff

[Ron]

Jeff...nice job...those are precisely my feelings on this model...it's the only foamie I've ever flown that I really like...if I were to destroy it. I would get another, and that's about the best thing I could ever say about pretty much any model. It flies exactly like my larger pattern model...it's just smaller.

[Coop]

Can someone tell me how to use spackle and what type of spackle on my Formosa so I can smooth it out. Thanks.

[Coop]

Jeff where did you get the landing gear, how did you mount it, where did you get your NHP microfill, and how do you use it? Sorry for the questions I just like the way your mosa looks.

[Jeff Boyd 2]

The landing gear is Hyperion 400 class, as shown to me by Alexis Scott, a fellow Adelaide modeller. The 'straight' type, not the 'curved' type.

They can be bought from your local Hyperion dealer, or Aircraft World http://www.aircraft-world.com/shopexd.asp?id=3505 or Dave Pratley in Melbourne, Australia http://www.airstrike.com.au/Hyperion.htm

I originally wanted to use the curved type, but it is a fair bit wider across the mount and needed modification to look OK in the Formosa. The spats / wheel pants are also Hyperion available from the same place http://www.aircraft-world.com/shopexd.asp?id=3502

To fit it up . . . with the fuse halves held together (not glued), I marked the side of the Fuse with a sharpy marker where the gear would exit, then cut a slice out from the wing mount cavity forward with a sharp, long bladed adjustable razor knife (extended all the way out). I then added a 1/2" x 3/32" (approx) carbon strip to the center of the mounting area on the gear at a length to extend forward to the very front of the fuse (firewall). Just Epoxy it on. . . . it's good enough. This was to add a bit of lateral support (prevent the gear rocking backward and forward weakening the foam). You can see in the pic where the carbon strip is fitted in the center and extends forward (inside) to the front of the fuse where the cowl mounts.
Ohhh . . make sure where you are marking for the cut to allow the carbon strip to line up with the lower 3/8" x 3/8" stick mount hole. This hole is not used for gearbox motors (the top hole is used). If you are stick mounting an Outrunner and using this lower hole, make sure you allow for the carbon strip to fit below the stick mount (extra trimming of the foam will be required). ALSO, if you plan on running 10" or 11" props, you made need to mount the gear lower for prop clearance . . . do your measurements.
Trial fit everything before glueing the Fuse halves together. After gluing the fuse, simply slide the gear with carbon 'brace' into position from the wing mount cavity using epoxy, and add a balsa or foam packer into the unused stick mount hole on top of the carbon 'brace' at the front (firewall). . . all done.

PS. The pic shows the gear after approx. 100 flights now. This model has never been hand launched and only flies from grass fields. The light glass spats are getting a little cracked, but, as you can see the gear mounting is fine (have to say, I have never landed it hard, but it is difficult to land a Formosa hard . . it just want's to effortlessly breeze in.)

[Unbalanced prop]

Thanks a lot Jeff. I may have to put that gear on my Formosa. Looks a lot better then the stock gear.

Doug

[rcers]

Good upgrade - I can't believe that has held up!

Mike

[WingTips24]

yea I am all over that one. I have been wrestling back in forth because I have wanted for some time to build another Formosa since the demon possesed antics of my last one. I was plagued with electrical issues but I still had a few flights that showed what a fine model theformosa is. I almost bought one last week and now I see this thread. Looks like I will have to place the order now....yup nothing can be done now. Have to do it. I really really like that landing gear and it was one of the small downsides to me getting this plane. I have been pushed over the edge for sure. Thanks for the pictures and details on how you did that. Can't wait till mine arrives.

Tips

[Old Fart]

Well, my Formosa slope glider showed up yesterday afternoon, along with the Aurora 400 outrunner.

Anyone else with a slope glider remember if the motor "stick" is included. Plane is at home, and the dachshund refuses to go look in the box for me :)

[WingTips24]

yup should be!

Tips

[WingTips24]

Hey Jeff where are you located, I am in delaware but I was a bit hesistant to order from this place cause I didn't want it to take forever to get here

How long did yours take

Tips

[Jeff Boyd 2]

Hey Tips,

Dave Pratley is a good guy, and very trustworthy. http://www.airstrike.com.au

Not sure if he can send to USA, but worth the enquiry.

Aircraft World in Japan are also very good, and send all over the world. http://www.aircraft-world.com

I have had excellent dealings and service from both these companies.

Yes, the Motor stick is included in the Slope Glider. Its used to fit the GWS gearbox housing with shaft and spinner . . all included (just no gears).

[Old Fart]

Got a good start on the Formosa over the last two night. Fuselage is built, wing has the spar and ailerons done. Went to dual aileron servos - buried them in the top of the wing as I won't be running landing gear. Aurora 400T is mounted. Hoping the CG requires the battery to sit further back than the factory "hole" - as you can't get much of a 3S lipo into that slot - even if you hog it out.

[Ribcracker]

Jeff,
Please describe how you installed your aileron servos on top of the wing. Are your control horns on top of the ailerons? Any issues?
This is something I'd like to try.
Peace,
Rib

[Old Fart]

Haven't flown it yet - so can't describe any issues with how they work (although I've done several other models in the same manner).

I'll take pictures Thursday night and post Friday (busy tonight/tomorrow night), but basically I drew a guideline across the top of the wing at the "back" (rear) position of the stock servo cutout on top of the wing, and another guideline per side from the inboard edge of the aileron. Then I took an HS55 servo, layed it on it's side on top of the wing with the "bottom and rear" edge of the servo on the lines. Traced around the servo, marked a sharp #11 for depth and cut an outline of the servo in the foam (you're only cutting the "width" of the servo for depth - about 5/8"). Additional cuts to convince the foam to let go, slices for servo mounting tabs.

I'll run a "z" bend at the servo and adjustable clevis at the control horns.

Should have taken pix last night (had the camera) - but my cigar kept going out - distracted me :(

[Old Fart]

Ok, here's a few pictures of my aileron mod. Almost finished last night, still have maybe an hour to go. Some good news - Tamiya spray model paint didn't eat the foam!

[Ribcracker]

Pure genious! And the photos are great.
I do most of my flying in a field that rarely gets mowed so landing gear is usually out of the question for me.
My next dual aileron servo foamie will have this mod. I wonder if there's a way to do it with balsa ships. The underwing servos on my Funtana keep getting caught and chewed up.
Let us know if any issues develop.

[Old Fart]

Maidened the Formosa today - plane flies like it's on rails - I like it!!! I was worried the Aurora 400T wouldn't be fast enough - but even with the 8x6SF prop, the plane hauls booty. Can't wait for my 7.5x5's to show up.

Need an opinion - you think I'll lose it in the sky? :)

[scalercflyer]

The thing looks like it's on fire already! :eek: I don't think you'll lose it in the sky! :D Martin

[redgiki]

Someone else here can comment, but I don't think you want those GWS batts. They just can't deliver the current you want.

The GWS 1300mAh LiPos won't even deliver 7 amps constant without destroying themselves. Avoid them for anything drawing more than 5 amps of current.

I've been through two of them, and those are the last I intend to buy! They started off at around 8 amps, then quickly dropped to 6.45 and hung out there, growing quite warm in the process.

[Glo4U]

Try www.gwsexpert.com (http://www.gwsexpert.com) They carry all kinds of motors for the GWS models.
Gloria

[Old Fart]

The thing looks like it's on fire already! :eek: I don't think you'll lose it in the sky! :D Martin

You better beleive the folks at the field in San Pedro gave me a hard time. Can't wait to fly it without wind - although it did fine.

[Old Fart]

The GWS 1300mAh LiPos won't even deliver 7 amps constant without destroying themselves. Avoid them for anything drawing more than 5 amps of current.

I've been through two of them, and those are the last I intend to buy! They started off at around 8 amps, then quickly dropped to 6.45 and hung out there, growing quite warm in the process.

I managed to stuff one of my 2100 mAh Apex's in the Formosa - it balances nice and flies for a respettable amount of time. I forgot to hog out for the battery before I glued the fuselage sides together (Bad Jeff!) - what a PITA to fix :(

[Jeff Boyd 2]

Jeff, I run an 1800mAh pack when there's a bit of breeze, but on a perfectly calm day, beg, borrow or steal a 3S pack that can handle the amps and weighs around 70 to 80gms (2.5 to 2.8 oz.). The difference in the way it flies is amazing.

[Old Fart]

I have an 1800 mah pack that might just fit the bill. Only had time for (1) flight on Sunday, so threw the 2100 in.

[comets8518]

Just flew mine for the first time on a 3s 2000mah. I'm amazed by the performance difference.

Only problem is its now beat up from me tweaking it and crashing it.
Looks like I may need to build another one out of the slope gliders.

anyone ever try (or see someone try) to put retracts in the mosa?

[Unbalanced prop]

anyone ever try (or see someone try) to put retracts in the mosa?

This thread has some pretty good info on installing retracts.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201537&pp=15&highlight=formosa+retracts

Doug

[LarryB]

I'm running a typhoon 15/10 and apogee 2480 3S lipos with a APC 8x6 prop. Lots of thrust and speed unlimited vertical, with a 8X8 prop it really hauls. I used .75 oz glass on the fuse and Z-poxy. The wings are coverted in solite. I built my own aileron torque rods. I put a thin ply firewall. The inside of the fuse has cabon fiber and glass with epoxy. I used a carbon fiber tube on the wing. I'm using a CC pheonix 25 ESC and a Spectrum AR6000 receiver. AUW is 18.5 oz.

Larry

[Jeff Boyd 2]

Boy, that's heavy! Does she land fast? (mine flies at 15.5oz and I couldn't imagine flying it any heavier. It is very scale like 2 x 2 F3A at this weight.)

Sounds great though. Any pics?

Jeff B

[LarryB]

I've flown it with a tanic 1550 it comes in at a little over 15 oz. there doesn't appear to be much difference in required speed. It slows down very nice with the 2480 apogee and considerably more flight time.

Larry

[Old Fart]

Anyone found a small spinner for the Formosa that will work with an outrunner? IIRC, the one that came with the kit is 1-1/4", I'm not finding anything smaller than 1-1/2"

Have about a half dozen flights now - I _like_ this plane!

[skrez]

Hi Guys,
I`m really impressed with Reformed Nitro numbers with his Himax 2100/4100 motor and 4.4 gear. Can you tell me what prop/ battery you are using to get those kind of numbers? I`m using the same motor and have tried a 5.33, and 4.4 combo (10/7 prop and 9/7) a 3 s 1320 TP pack. I `v been very disappointed with these combos in my Formosa. Can anyone give me some advice on improving preformance with this motor ?
Frank

[Jeff Boyd 2]

Hi Frank,

I'm using the baby Himax. I'm not sure of the number, but it's 30mm long x 20mm dia. and I think its 5200kv. I run it with a 5.5:1 g/box and 9x6 Align prop. and (now) and "Electric Power" 3S 20C 1000mAh pack . . ACCELERATES VERTICALLY !

I think this motor is only good for 15A . . but I am pushing 18A (nearly 190W) with it ! !

[danny.act]

Hi Skrez,
Are you shure that your Lipo pack is still in top performance and it can deal with the Amp's?

[skrez]

Thanks Guys,
Yes Danny, My pack is new and is charged with a blancer on every charge. I get okay proformance with the 4100 k motor , nothing great.
Frank

[Wild Weasel]

My model shop's running a combo deal on a GWS brushless motor/speed controller, link's here: http://www.wattsup.co.nz/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_102&products_id=1637
Would this be suitable for a Formosa? Also, what's the deal on covering these models? Any reccomended brands? Thanks :)

[Jeff Boyd 2]

Hi WW,

I checked it and it's way too light-on for the Formosa. With a max. rating of only 90W, it would only just fly it, and forget any verticals.

You need at least 130W for good aerobatic flight, and 150W to 200W is sweet.

Jeff

[nova801428]

This thread is old!!! 3 days and it will be a year

[gymnast]

Does anyone know the empty weight of this plane? with no motor or electronics? thanks

[Evo]

It's pretty light really.... from memory I'd say 275-350 grams.

Is there a reason? Like a power setup or somethin'?

Cheers, eh.
Dan

[gymnast]

just got my formosa in the mail today. it weighs 152 grams (only the foam parts and the cowl) with the other little plastic parts i'm sure it's a little more. The build is going great so far. it's at 10 ounces with motor, esc, and 3 cell battery. with the 3 servos and all the other parts i should be able to keep it under 12 ounces. with my motor it's pulling outta my hand (vertical) at 1/2 throttle.

[PopPhil]

Hi all, got mine ready to go , any comments on CG. Mine came out at 100 mm.

[gymnast]

manual says anywhere between 80mm and 100mm so you should be fine. elevater might be sensitive but from what i've heard this plane is a pretty smooth flyer.

[airbourne in japan]

maidened my second formosa yesterday. my first one has a himax 2025-5300 with a 5.4 gear and an apc 7x9 prop. this is a lovely plane, flies well even in wind and is one of my favourites. anyway this winter i built another one with a himax 275 watt outrunner and it's much faster, apc 7x9 gp silver series 45amp esc. the only problem is it only ran for about 4 minutes on the hyperion 1800 3s 20c battery and that's the biggest that will fit. the esc cut out then and when i charged the battery up it only took about 1250 mah. but it was going like crazy and i had to be careful not to lose it. i've also got the formosa 2 with a hacker 500 watt outrunner and that's also an excellent flier

[PopPhil]

Maiden flight was Monday,:) WOW!! hard to believe that a 16 oz plane flies that great. Started with a 10/3.8, not very good, Had a 9/6E prop and that was the trick. CG was at 100mm. changed to 90mm was better yet. Wind was at 15 mph. Seems to like the wind. Ran at half throttle most of the flights. "OH" forgot!, Motor-400XT 950kv direct drive, 1000 mah 3Cell 20C pack. Everything ran cool

[Jeff Boyd 2]

PoPhil . . sounds like a great setup. Mine would have well over 500 flights now . . the ailerons have softened a bit, and the floor under the canopy has all but broken away (I mount my battery there, and I will be reinforcing it with 3/32" balsa and PVA this weekend) . . but it still flies great.

I have never even had a rough landing with this plane. It's just so predicatble and "honest". On a calm day, this plane can do a very respectable F3A Masters routine (need a bigger pack than 1000mAh to get through it though :-) ! ! ). .

When it's totally worn out, I will get another . . and I have never said that about any other model.

[Ribcracker]

I don't have the servos installed yet but I wanted to show off the paint job. I'll get the servos this weekend.

[Evo]

Crackin' Paint Job there Ribcracker!!! Nice clean lines!

Very very nice indeed... tell us a little somthin'...
How did ya get that landing gear on there?... very nice touch.
maybe a few closeup pics of your gear?

Looks like a beauty!

Cheers