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flyhawk
11-10-2006, 11:18 AM
Hi,
I want to build P 38 lightning about a Ziroli plans. I try to find somebody who builded this airplaine. I want to put him AXI 5330 or 5345 and Lipol pack 10 or 12 cells.I try to find some photos or something about this model.
Frankie

Kosh
11-10-2006, 01:03 PM
Welcome to Wattflyer flyhawk, I did a little searching and found this.
Best of luck with the 40 pound project. :)

Plane: http://www.ziroliplans.com/cat_frameset.html
Build: http://p-38.corpcomp.com/interest.htm
Sale: http://iolair.com/prod01.htm $3500

flyhawk
11-10-2006, 02:10 PM
Thanks a lot. Thať´s what I´m looking for this page. I want to be persuade the decision will be good.I wan´t marking a second picture. My lightning will be lighter than original. I hope:)

Glacier Girl
11-10-2006, 05:26 PM
You might want to take a look at Nitroplanes. They have a 90" version prebuilt. I converted it over to electric. Mine comes in at approx 21 pounds. Would be a little easier and less expensive then hand building one.

flyhawk
11-13-2006, 06:19 AM
Do you have some videos your P38? It´s look very good. I so little crazy and I want to build and flying some bigger till usually. That´s I make decision for bulid this airplane:) And I beleve and hope,that I handle it.

Ron
11-15-2006, 09:26 PM
G G ....Have you flown it yet ? I am considering picking one up, but how did you end up at 21 pounds when the advertising says 12 lbs??
I know they exaggerate on lightness, but almost twice the weight?
I was thinking to run it on 2 Eflite power 60 motors and 6S lithiums for each motor this total power setup is less than 4 pounds, and is close to 3000 watts.
I was also thinking to use mechanical retracts instead of air...maybe some of the weight is there? unfortunately, I don't know what the empty airframe weighs, so I'm kind of shooting in the dark here. Was also thinking to use small servos ( HS 225 BB ) ....

Glacier Girl
11-16-2006, 11:54 AM
Ron, she's grounded due to crappy weather and field conditions. I'm in the process of having a strip built on farm land I own, so it's looking more like next year for a maiden.:( And I'll be honest this is a big bird, and it's given me a case of the willies. I bought this one before investing in the VQ version. Somehow though it would be cheaper, NOT. I have a ton of bucks in it and it's already on it's second set of power plants as the first ones I just wasn't happy with, and the fact I could only spin 2 blades on it. Now it's powered with a set of motors that is going to give me nearly 1:1 thrust to weight, and speed around 70 mph. Props now are APC 15.75 x 13 x 3's. Weight wise is using an old scale I have, and I'm not 100% sure if that's how heavy it actually is. Yeah I know I got a couple thousand in the bird, should have sprung for a good scale. Umm a lot of my weight is from the packs, I'm running 6S2P 3700 20C packs in each boom. That's over 5 pounds of weight but packs are way over rated for what I'm pulling on them, I wanted a bit of a safety factor and flight time on mine. Motors are nearly a pound and a half each. And I went with big strong metal geared servos, something I would strongly suggest to you. 10 in total,130 oz of pull, another I'm not wanting to have to worry about a weakness on. Weight savings if any would be the air retracts, one servo to operate them, and the other items used to make them function are a lot less weight then 2 additonal servos that would be needed for mech retracts. On that thought, weight gain also in building supports for the retracts, something the bird doesn't have. Those supports need to be strong, remember that's a lot of weight coming down on them when landing, and a tricycle set up pounds the daylights out of the nose gear. Especially if you fly from grass. On my 52" version I ended up going with an 8 pound nose gear on a 4 pound bird, as the lighter version just would not take the pounding. SO in turn the nose retract mount has to be able to take a pounding too, again bigger/stronger more weight. Let's see what else added to it. Oh, H/D robart struts and big wheels. 4 1/2" on the mains for rough grass field I have now. If you have the luxury of a nice smooth paved strip, a lot of weight can be shaved.
So that's how I ended up where it's at. BUT, I know it's got plenty of horse power, and everything in it is well beyond what stress's should be placed on it. ;)
One thing about her, she's taught me patience. Ok that an whole bunch of unbuilt birds has kept me busy. But, she has not just been sitting around tied to the ceiling hanger. Gotta play, she's been out numerous times to check her rough field capabilities. Taxi tests to prove to me I built her strong and right. And she does make one heck of a leaf blower.

Ron
11-16-2006, 04:13 PM
What a co-incidence....our strip is on my farm....that's why I have been into larger models for the last dozen or so years.Mostly WW1 stuff and Mostly 1/4 and 1/3 scale. I think I will be using the 3700 Evo cells in 6S configuration, as I already have them for one of my competition planes.
The motors I have will swing those three blade props at 7200 RPM on these batteries....I'll save weight on the motors and the batteries...motors weigh 13 oz each....packs weigh 19 ounces each..so there's 3 1/2 pounds......I can save 10 or 12 ounces by using the HS225BB servos...these have served me well for years on larger models, and I've never had a failure....electric models don't have the vibration that fuel ones do, and the servos have a much easier time of it..my 1/3 size DR1 is going onto it's 8th season, and it uses HS 81 servos for the ailerons.
It doesn't just putt around either..I fly the snot out of it. Hopefully with some careful engineering, I can save some weight on the retract mounting system....If I can come in at around 13 to 14 pounds, it should be a good model for me....I will have 21 pounds of thrust with this setup, so it should be a decent performer as long as it's relatively light....12 1/2 pounds works out to about 25 oz. to the sq. ft. which is a nice wing loading for this size model.....I guess it will be approx the same size as the DR1 which is 90" span, but the tripe stands waist height if you are 6 ft tall........Hopefully the weather and just general stuff will co-operate and you can get her into the air soon. It's been really wet and windy here for the last three weeks or so, but I'm hoping that Dec will steady up some so I can get some airtime on my Pattern plane...gotta practise up for next year......I'm just waiting to hear back from the supplier about when it's going to be shipped. I will be doing everything I can think of to keep the weight down to a manageable level on this one,.......I have been threatening to do one of these for years, but just couldn't bring myself to do a little one..( go big or go home ?? ) I do like the larger models though...if you have flown one before, you will know what I mean...if this is your first biggie, then once you get over the initial nerves and the first few flights, you will see exactly why we say bigger models fly better.
Keep us up to date on your progress, and I'll let you know when/if mine arrives.....hope they're not out of stock.

Glacier Girl
11-17-2006, 12:01 PM
Man 25 0z per sq foot would be outstanding. And you'll definitely have the power.
I do have a couple of other bigger birds, two 5 1/2' long F16's, and a 60 " Cub, and speaking of WW1 birds, I'm building the Hanger 9 Camel right now,electric of course.
One thing with big birds, not counting the much higher cost per plane, is how easy it is to work on them, you can actually get your fat fingers inside to place stuff.
Something about the P38 though, between the size and those two massive 3 blades spinning up tends to make your heart do a double beat.
I kinda fell into my field, I had had a section strip mined, and due to the contracts on it, was my choice to what got put back and how it got put back, in letting the coal company off the hook, so to speak I now have an approx 22 acres of cleared land, with a 150 x 300 foot pond for float planes, and it didn't take long with a Cat D10 to carve out 500 x 50 feet of runway. All of the surrounding area is planted in grass, and the runway itself just needs the final surface put down to complete.

Chris_L
11-17-2006, 01:32 PM
Sorry for eavesdropping, but you have a hell of a facility out there!

I'm just jealous...

BTW, are you sure a D10 is big enough?? (I'm a longtime dozer fan, and would love to have a go with a D10 sometime)

Cheers,

Chris.

Ron
11-17-2006, 05:14 PM
Funny you should mention the Hangar 9 Camel...that was my next choice if the P38 was not available....I have done up plans for a 1/3 sized Pup, but that's a little too ambitious for this winter. Time has been at a premium the last year or so..... I was going to use the power 60 in the Camel with 6S. just because I have all the 6S packs for my pattern model.....I'm sure though that the Power 46 would be more than adequate.
Funny thing about those WW1 models...more power is not better...if you have them trimmed out right, they don't change attitude when you add throttle, they just climb.
As far as cost goes, I scratch build a lot of my stuff because it keeps the cost down...balsa isn't terribly expensive, and covering can be bought a little at a time.....with an ARF it seems to be gone all at once, and the day after you get it you're looking to spend a jillion more on the electronics....Anyway, since I have had really good luck with the DX6 in larger models, I am toying with the idea of using 2 of the 2.4 gig receivers in this model...I know the range is said to be an issue, but I have often flown a 68" model to the limit of my vision, and have had no issues with it, so I think it should work.....if not I'll use the DX7....I guess it's going to be at least a couple of weeks before the model arrives, so I'd better be looking around for a deal on a trainload of servos :-) Keep me informed on the progress with your Camel, I will be interested to see how she flies....have heard nothing really negative on this one yet.......I did the Hangar nine 80" Cub a few years back, and got tired of it, so I sold it about 5 years ago, but it was a good flier although heavy.I have a friend who is doing up the new H 9 Spitty right now..that should be a decent model, if it's at all like the Miss America Mustang they put out.
Good to see another facility with a float pond.....ours is down the road just far enough that you can fly there without worrying about radio clashes, and with small models and 2.4 gig, I can fly basically at my back door because we have a wide meandering creek close to the house....just gotta chase the kids and dogs out of it to fly there.
were there any major problems with quality or parts fit on your P 38, or did it go together without too much trouble? are the tail surfaces just flat sheet or are they shaped as per the real thing? I'm getting anxious to have a look at it now....guess I'd better go get the shop ready for it.

Glacier Girl
11-17-2006, 11:51 PM
Wow kindred spirits we must be. I have a 60 and 6S in the Camels nose.
Going to try 3D with it.LOL Wouldn't that be a sight.
Got the P40 comming next.

Oh back to the 38. No nothing I would say out of the ordinary. I've heard some complaints on the kit about some of the quality, but I think it was more folks expecting a VQ model at PZ prices. Umm tails as in rudders are pretty much flat, rounded LE and TE's. Ditto the elevator. But from what I saw was put together very well. Found very few spots that at least to me didn't look like they had enough glue, but that's me again. I've learned to reglue everything just in case. Only downside on mine was the paint quality. Looked like it had been painted over 3 shifts and used 4 different shades of paint. I planned on repainting mine, so it was no big deal. Nitro planes looks like they are starting to become more responsive to their customers. I have a bud that is doing some testing for them for quality control, and I see now they have a place where you can post on their site re: flight reports on their models, and they now have a vendors forum here on rcu for answers to your questions.
Wait till you get the box, then pull out the wings and lay them out with the gondola and booms. One of those "Holy bat ship, what have I gotten myself into" moments. Like this photo I took of mine with the 52" version on top.

Ron
11-18-2006, 04:59 PM
Somewhere I have a picture of my DR1 with one of the parkflyer DR1 models perched on the horizontal stab, and another with a parkflyer ( diddlebug) on it's wing tip in front of the propellor...the prop was bigger than the wingspan of the diddlebug...I like the larger models, but do also fly smaller guys through the winter as I can keep them in one piece in the back of the Jimmy for the right moment weather wise.
as far as the paint goes...grey under green seemed to be the predominant colour until the P38L came along in 43 I think it was...there was one painted bright red too I think it was # 5000, and was named YIPPEE...I am tempted to try that one, as I have a decent picture of it...either that one or " Black Market Babe" which has some colour to it. Interesting thought, the L had 1600 HP and could carry the same bomb load as a B17.
Another interesting thing ( to me anyway) Fokker designed and built one like the P38 but earlier... you don't hear much about it...just interesting as I used to think the P38 was somewhat unique ( maybe we copied the huns?? ) One of the guys at our field has a Proctor Camel...he's afraid to fly it because it's such a handful...but I hear the H9 one is a bit of a puddycat ...if properly set up... Man there's just too many planes to build/assemble/fly :-) I want one of every kind, then I want one in every colour.

flyhawk
11-20-2006, 06:22 AM
So I have a little trouble with P 38 Zirrolli. Transportation price is the same as a model. I have decided, that a draw my P38:) . He have wingspan a 2970 mm, lenght is a 2160 mm and weight? I hope, that around 15 kg. Motors are use AXI 5330/45 or the stronger version. Battery pack include 10 cells Li-Pol. I have make my retractable landing gear. Im thinking about it, what the camber and what profile use for this model. :D