dr-1 triplane

[jeffb]

hey guys,

Got a guillows red baron special, not sure how old it is, does kit 204 mean anything to you guys? I'm trying to decide whether to build it for e-flight or keep it for display-anyone know if its worth anything?Thanks fellas,

jeff

[swapdaddyxx1]

Jeff, Thats about a 15" span,right? That kit is fairly common,from about early sixties to sometlme late 70s I think. I have one built up in the attic of my shop I think. That smaller series usually sells on ebay for about $18 to $22 I think. That was Guillows smallest rubber powered in that era. With most of those old kits, you can copy the plan & printwood(if the formers & ribs are not shown full size on the plan) & build the model without destroying the kit. It will probably take quite some time ,if ever, for the kit to attain much value though. Jerry

[jeffb]

Thanks,

I wanted to hear that in a way,as it's more fun to fly than to let it collect dust. Any idea what kind of electronics to put in?I've never built a kit, much less converted one.I wonder if this is too small of a plane to convert?You're right Jerry it says 20",so it's not real big.Thanks for any input!

jeff

[Sky Sharkster]

Hello Jeff, Welcome to Wattflyer! As Jerry mentioned, you'd be better off tracing the parts and using your own wood, not only to preserve the model but also since Guillows didn't always use the best wood, the selection often was too heavy for the application.
Honestly, if this is going to be your first balsa build, I'd suggest a model that's already designed for Electric flying, and save the Triplane for later.
Take a look at the kits offered by Mountain Models/Laser Arts, Stevens Aero, Dumas and Dare. Most of these are laser-cut, good wood selection, include R/C hardware, have suggested motor recommendations, and best of all, they fly well! The DR-1 would be a handful for even the most experienced pilot.
On the "Warbirds" (WWII) Forum I have a sticky with links to many of the manufacturers of military flying models. Also, on "Builders Techniques", the sticky has a group of links, scroll to "Micro Models" for some suppliers of equipment for the DR-1. You'll see, as the models get smaller, the price gets higher!
If you decide on a "400" sized model the gear won't be as expensive, micro servos like the Hitec 55's are about $15.00 and a Berg Micro Stamp RX is around $40.00. This is equipment you can easily use in later models.
Good Luck, Whatever you decide!
Ron

[jeffb]

Thanks for the input guys-all great info.I like the idea of tracing the parts to save the model-had a thought about that, was curious about the scale of the guillows models,they say "authentic scale" so could one double,triple,etc. the size of the traced parts to make a larger model,or is there a reason that it wouldn't work out this way? I have a bit of winter ahead so I might have the time to tinker with that-sounds fun to me.

thanks again guys for all the great info,
jeff

[jeffb]

anyone have thoughts on this? would like your input. thanks

[MacMyers]

anyone have thoughts on this? would like your input. thanks

I've wondered... but I don't know.
Scaling up plans and scratch building them smacks of witchcraft....... witchcraft I say. :eek:

[jeffb]

I'm not sure either, but it sounds like a very rewarding project to me I'm very excited to learn more!!

[Sky Sharkster]

Hi Jeff, there's nothing wrong with scaling up (or down) plans to build a different size model. It helps if you have a scratch-building backround to solve the problems that may come up in the process.
For example, if you double the size from 20" wingspan to 40", and the original wing L.E. was 1/8th square, now it will be 1/4" square. That's a pretty sizeable piece of lumber! Most "speed 400" models in that size range would be 3/16" square. Same thing with stringers; From 1/16" square to 1/8" square. Again, too big. 3/32" square would be plenty strong (and heavy) enough.
Non-load-bearing bulkheads formally made of 1/16" balsa would show up as 1/8". That's overkill by a large amount.
So you would need to figure out proper wood sizes for all the strip and sheet stock and modify the slots to match. Not the hardest task, but one that takes some thought and experience.
Again, my suggestion is to build one (or more) kits from a reputable company to get a feel for the sizes, weights, and overall engineering of a model that size.
There are also plan sets available from Peter Rake and others to "scratch" build from, including the DR 1. It would be worth the price of a set to see what long-time builders and designers have done with this model.
JMO,
Ron

[jeffb]

hey Ron,
thanks for the info-I understand that it wouldn't be the easiest task to start the building world in this manner,it reminds me of learning to weld,or run a lathe,or mill, or the other skills I've picked up.The info you've provided helps a person like me visualise the types of things that occur along the way,though and that helps more than you might know,because it gets me in the right mindset.Just like welding, you can read a book on the subject and pass many written tests or what have you, but you still have to pick up the mig gun and do it , which like scratch building and scaling i'm sure takes a certain common sense and feel.I'll look into the kits you have mentioned, as I do understand what your saying, but would ask that if a person such as myself was to take on a task like this,isn't that what this site is all about?Helping each other along the way? Also I don't know about you, but I can't imagine the sense of accomplishment one would get by seeing their first scratch build take off for the first time!
I realize it probably sounds like I have stars in my eyes , and admittedly might,but this is something that really excites me,and I guess it's been a while since that's happened for me- any way, I do really appreciate all your feedback and tips, and if theres any more of the great tips and info like you've already posted Ron, or anyone else out there,i'd like to hear it.

thanks a bunch,
jeffb

[Sky Sharkster]

Hi Jeff, If you're going to go ahead with the scaling project, here's some free downloadable plans for WWI models. Most of these are in the size range for a "speed 400" motor, typically 30" to 40" wingspan and are designed with the classic "stick + Tissue" construction the Guillows, Dare and Dumas use. http://members.fortunecity.co.uk/slmohr/rcplan1.htm
You will notice some differences in the construction, for example none use the wing trailing edge technique the Guillows models use, where the rib is notched on the bottom to accept an inset T.E. It is far better to use a wider T.E. piece and notch the trailing edge stock for the rib than the other way around. More aerodynamic and stronger.
Also the light rubber-powered models rarely use wing center bracing or dihedral braces. On a 1 ounce model with minimal power they're not needed. When you scale up and add electric power the stresses on the wing center are greater, and if the wing folds, that's where it will fail, every time. So a tapered 1/32" or 1/16" ply brace extending out a few rib bays will reinforce this area, this is usually glued flush (upright) behind the leading edge and possibly a smaller one in front of, and glued to, the trailing edge.
You will need to make a few of the bulkheads out of plywood instead of balsa on a powered model. Of course the firewall, but also the landing gear attachment point. The wing struts should be "Lite Ply" instead of balsa. There are other points of stress on a larger model that don't occur on a much lighter, slow-flying model. If you study these plans it will help point them out.
You're right about building being a good introduction to the skills needed to design, construct and fly models, but I'm not sure about the DR 1 being an ideal first project! My recommendation would be a high-wing monoplane like the Mountain Models Cessna 180 http://www.mountainmodels.com/index.php?cPath=25_29_74&osCsid=5a902b72661007ff80f92e6ae5e9956a
Good Luck!
Ron

[flypaper 2]

Jeff:
Ron is right about having a few builds under your belt first. I did that build back in the mid 60s. Doubled the size of the Guillows DR1. I put a Supertiger 35 in it for the extra nose weight. I left the dihedral in it and used rudder throttle and elevator. Very aerobatic little plane. Later on I took the dihedral out and put ailerons on it and it was pretty well useless in roll. Went back to dihedral and rudder.:D It's still somewhere out in the garage. It's a tricky plane to fly. Well known for ground looping on takeoff and landing, even the full size one. The short span and lots of wing area for the span makes for the good aerobatics. A better starter plane would be the Guillows SE 5 or something along those lines, would be a better choice.

[jeffb]

cool links Ron,
thanks for being patient with me- I'm liking the 180 - price isn't bad either
may just have to ask santa

so Gord,
you already did this project eh, thats pretty neat. hopefully I can pick your brain as well- am looking to start my build in the near future- just might be a cessna 180 first. I'll not be abandoning my plans though- theres just something about those fokkers!

[chaz345]

Preserving the kit for collecting purposes may be rahter pointless since the kit is still in production and available to purchase from Guillows.

http://www.guillow.com/GuillowDetail.asp?UID=2992156&prod=204&SeriesId=18&FamilyId=1