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rea59
12-08-2006, 10:14 PM
I'm just starting this kit and will document it fully. I have several plans for modifications (more detail later). My research so far shows that I can power this with an AXI 5330 Double using two 10s Lipos. This is a huge plane for electrics and should be a lot of fun to build and fly. I'll try to make regular posts on the progress as I can.

Any suggestions (power, detail, modifications) would be welcome.

Hope you all enjoy this build as much as I will.

firemanbill
12-08-2006, 10:36 PM
I'M IN!!! :D

I'll be paying real close attention to this one!

Best of luck to you. It really sounds like an awesome project.

MacMyers
12-09-2006, 03:38 AM
I'M IN!!! :D

I'll be paying real close attention to this one!

Best of luck to you. It really sounds like an awesome project.

Me too:D

Grasshopper
12-09-2006, 03:42 AM
Can't wait to see this one!

Details, pictures, videos..... yeah, yeah!!

rea59
12-09-2006, 10:47 AM
Can't wait to see this one!

Details, pictures, videos..... yeah, yeah!!


Where in SW Missouri? I was born and raised outside of Kansas City in Lee's Summit. Spent most of my youth at the various lakes down in the Ozarks. I can remember going to Silver Dollar City when the roads were still gravel. My dad also put the elevators in the Truman dam while it was being built.

Pictures will be coming. I plan to crack open the box and inventory the contents today. Please realize this will be a long build, mostly due to the cost of the accessory's. (The Judge keeps telling me I have to send half my money to my last hobby).:mad: I will be using the scale retracts and I plan on replacing the plastic cowl with a custom fiberglass one. Also a custom machined prop nut. Just thinking but I would like to be able to hinge the wings like the original (my truck bed is 78 inches and the wing span on this is 86.5 inches).:confused:

Currently I have a JR Sport 6 ch radio.:o For the size and investment in this plane I'd like to have more channels so a new radio will also have to be in the works. :D

I would appreciate any suggestions on a reliable/accurate radio/servos for this build. (reliable is the key word)


Thanks for paying attention guys. I hope to be able to make regular reports.

firemanbill
12-09-2006, 01:07 PM
Where in SW Missouri? I was born and raised outside of Kansas City in Lee's Summit. Spent most of my youth at the various lakes down in the Ozarks. I can remember going to Silver Dollar City when the roads were still gravel. My dad also put the elevators in the Truman dam while it was being built.

Pictures will be coming. I plan to crack open the box and inventory the contents today. Please realize this will be a long build, mostly due to the cost of the accessory's. (The Judge keeps telling me I have to send half my money to my last hobby).:mad: I will be using the scale retracts and I plan on replacing the plastic cowl with a custom fiberglass one. Also a custom machined prop nut. Just thinking but I would like to be able to hinge the wings like the original (my truck bed is 78 inches and the wing span on this is 86.5 inches).:confused:

Currently I have a JR Sport 6 ch radio.:o For the size and investment in this plane I'd like to have more channels so a new radio will also have to be in the works. :D

I would appreciate any suggestions on a reliable/accurate radio/servos for this build. (reliable is the key word)


Thanks for paying attention guys. I hope to be able to make regular reports.


lol that's funny... well not really for you I guess but I got a kick out of it...

I would seriously look at the new DX7 from Spektrum. Full range spread spectrum radio. No channel issues and very reliable. On Horizons website now they have a video with a interview with the AMA Technical director and he really talks it up as being the cats meow.

Grasshopper
12-09-2006, 02:21 PM
Where in SW Missouri? I was born and raised outside of Kansas City in Lee's Summit. Spent most of my youth at the various lakes down in the Ozarks. I can remember going to Silver Dollar City when the roads were still gravel. My dad also put the elevators in the Truman dam while it was being built.

Pictures will be coming. I plan to crack open the box and inventory the contents today. Please realize this will be a long build, mostly due to the cost of the accessory's. (The Judge keeps telling me I have to send half my money to my last hobby).:mad: I will be using the scale retracts and I plan on replacing the plastic cowl with a custom fiberglass one. Also a custom machined prop nut. Just thinking but I would like to be able to hinge the wings like the original (my truck bed is 78 inches and the wing span on this is 86.5 inches).:confused:

Currently I have a JR Sport 6 ch radio.:o For the size and investment in this plane I'd like to have more channels so a new radio will also have to be in the works. :D

I would appreciate any suggestions on a reliable/accurate radio/servos for this build. (reliable is the key word)


Thanks for paying attention guys. I hope to be able to make regular reports.


I'm in Webb City on the north side of Joplin. We're not too far away. I wish I could help with some of your questions, but you're way out of my league here.

rea59
12-10-2006, 02:06 PM
#1. Where's my bench space? The bench is 36" X 81"
#2. Box of wood. Reading on-line I found that if you punch everything out there will be 6lbs of left over scrap wood.
#3. Stab in bones. Only two die cuts. The triangle in the center and the square block below it. Both of which you have to laminate to a 1/2" thick (using 30min. epoxy). The rest is cut from stick wood.

Note: There are so many sticks in this kit it's hard to recognize which is for what. (3 different types of wood) However the guys at Top Flite bundled the sticks by area IE: wing 1, wing 2, fuse 1, stab, etc. They did not however label which bundle was for which. I spent a good 3 hours just inventorying the kit.

#4. Close up of stab corner for scale. (I have planes with with wings shorter than this stab and entire planes that are lighter):eek:

rea59
12-14-2006, 01:16 AM
#1 Added Hinge Blocks for heavy duty Robart hinges.

#2 Skinned and Rough Shaped Weight 6.5 oz

#3 Completed "Fin" Same constrution as stab.

Note: Does anyone know why Top Flite calls this the "Fin":confused: Back when I was in the F4 community we called it the vertical stab, as opposed to the horizontal stab. Not that the F4 had a "horizontal" stab:D More of a combined elevator and stab that pointed to the ground at the tips.

My dad was asking me today if I would build a P61 Black widow for him. He said that was his favorite from when he worked on them at Northrop. Anyone know of any kits or plans? Me I've worked on the F4 Phantom II and the F/A-18 ( I prefer the Phantom) Sorry electric guys but someday I'm going to build a Phantom from scratch with twin jets.

I'm getting off subject, here's the pic's.

Twizter68
12-14-2006, 12:33 PM
Subscribed. REA59, you can do the hinged wings, with servos for wing locks. I can send you a plan for this if you want (I'm working up one for functional wingfolds). The F4U was called the Finback back in the war due to the canopy shape, and the radio antenna, according to my Pops (he's a corsair nut).

rea59
12-14-2006, 10:18 PM
Subscribed. REA59, you can do the hinged wings, with servos for wing locks. I can send you a plan for this if you want (I'm working up one for functional wingfolds). The F4U was called the Finback back in the war due to the canopy shape, and the radio antenna, according to my Pops (he's a corsair nut).


I was debating with myself on using servos for wing locks. Similar to the way the F4 wing locks worked. Yes I would appreciate your plans, It will help me with my own ideas. I still like to refer to it as the vertical stab. (old habits die hard):) Back when I worked on the Phantom I mentioned it to my dad and he didn't even know what it was. (shows my age and his):eek: He still thinks the P61 is the greatest, way better than the P38.:D I've always loved the corsair though. Probably my time in the Marine Corps and the way Pappy Boington flew it.:D

rea59
12-17-2006, 11:58 PM
#1. Elevators A lot of surface area. These will be covered in a light colored "mono" coat then painted. The construction is made to resemble the original Corsair's ribs which showed through on the Elevators and the Rudder.

#2 Close up before shaping.

The total die cuts on the stab and elevators is 4. The rest is all cut from sticks. You know what that means, a lot of planeing, sanding and shaping.:D (not a kit for the faint of heart)

#3 Rough shaped.

rea59
12-20-2006, 10:06 PM
Been busy with work the last few days so no progress on the plane.:( (I have to pay for it somehow):rolleyes: Next step is to tack glue the elevator and stab together to shape the tips. After that its drilling for the hinges. I don't want any air to pass through the gap so I made a couple of sanding bars for this (concave/convex). The main problem with this method is the center of the hinge (pivot point) needs to be at the center of the radius (read circle). With this size plane (elevators 3/4" thick) the center is 3/8" into the elevator leading edge. The only hinge points I have on hand are Robart 1/8". for this kit I'll need the 3/16" hinges. (I need to order some):(

Anyone else know of a better way and still maintain that scale "fitted" look?

I received some disk magnets today for access hatches and covers. These are some strong magnets.:eek: 3/8"(9.5mm) diameter by 1/8"(3.2mm) thick. These have a 4lb pull and weigh less than a gram each. (my scale wouldn't even read them). I got them from http://www.magcraft.com/products/index.htm I know HL sells them for (approx) 4 for 4$ these were twice as strong and came 30 for 9$+SH. (many different sizes and shapes are available)

My fridge is now also full of them (nothing will ever come off):D

rea59
12-27-2006, 12:55 AM
# 1 Rudder
# 2 Rudder Shaped --- Same construction techniques as the elevators
# 3 Wing Parts Glued

Note: buy stock in Epoxy!

These parts are laminated thick. The wing is built "in the air" over the plans as opposed to being built flat over the plans. And these parts require perpendicularity. My square would not allow me to clamp it in place so I made one out of Scrap pieces.

# 4 Home made square
# 5 Wing Center in bones.

Mind you this is just bones of the center wing. With the outers and tips this will stretch to 86.5". The weight of this section right now is 1lb 15.2 oz.

rea59
12-27-2006, 08:50 AM
I've tried to upload the pictures several times and get confirmation that they are done but still they are not showing.:confused: (I'll get them up as soon as the system allows):rolleyes:

flypaper 2
12-27-2006, 01:43 PM
Friedn of mine and I built a 200 CC size Reno Racer, Sea Fury, What we did for hinges was, slide a piece of fibre glass tube over the 3/16 robarts, glued with epoxy, to extend them and strengthen them. Bedded into the back of the stab, if I remember right, they extended out about an inch to fit into the convex leading edge of the elevator where the hinge point was. Looks like a good build.:p
Gord
By the way, it weighed in at 65 lbs

rea59
12-28-2006, 11:29 AM
Friedn of mine and I built a 200 CC size Reno Racer, Sea Fury, What we did for hinges was, slide a piece of fibre glass tube over the 3/16 robarts, glued with epoxy, to extend them and strengthen them. Bedded into the back of the stab, if I remember right, they extended out about an inch to fit into the convex leading edge of the elevator where the hinge point was. Looks like a good build.:p
Gord
By the way, it weighed in at 65 lbs


Thanks for the info.

By the way I was able to add the pictures to my previous post.

rea59
01-04-2007, 12:37 AM
I started working on the wing tip panels.:) I completed the left one then found that the shaped leading edge stock for the right one was warped in two directions.:eek: I tried the normal methods of soaking the balsa in warm water then clamping it all straight to dry but that did no good. It just sprang back to warped.:mad: This warp is way too bad to try pulling it out during gluing. The piece is a 9/16 x 1 x 30" trapezoid. I've contacted Top Flite and am waiting to hear from them. If that doesn't work I'll have to either buy a replacement or make one. :(

The servo wire tube is from a leftover monocoat roll.

Also both wing tip panels are built upside down. The left over the right plan drawing and the right over the left. This is because the top spar is flat and straight but the bottom is angled between the last two ribs.

#1 Warped LE
#2 Warped LE
#3 Left wing tip panel

rea59
01-04-2007, 02:26 PM
Just recived an email from Top Flite a few minuites ago and the replacement LE stick is on its way!:) Boy was that fast.:D

rea59
01-08-2007, 09:13 PM
Just received an email from Top Flite a few minutes ago and the replacement LE stick is on its way!:) Boy was that fast.:D

I received the box today.:D In it was two sheets of 3/32 X 3 X 30 balsa sheeting. :( Not the Wing LE I was expecting. Oh well wait some more. :mad: I have a 1 X 3 X 30 chunk I may just cut my own. :p

I did notice something odd though. This is a Top Flite kit. I emailed Top Flite. The response came back from PartsSupport@hobbico.com (PartsSupport@hobbico.com). And the parts were shipped directly from Great Planes Model Mfg.:confused:

Are all these manufactures in cahoots? :confused: Maybe this is why RC prices are so high.:D

rcers
01-08-2007, 10:21 PM
Hobbico owns Great Planes Top flite and MANY other companies. They also own Tower Hobbies! Horizon owns a bunch of the hobby stuff as well. Then you have a few left like Sig and Lanier and GWS and a bunch of really small guys....

Mike

rea59
01-18-2007, 12:16 AM
No progress on the plane. Still waiting to hear from Hobbico/Top Flite/Great planes about the wrong parts I received. (Emailed twice with no response). :( :confused: In the meantime I just won an auction on EBay for a pair of used Pneumatic retracts. (Robarts) :D I plan to put these on a separate circuit with the canopy. If I can work out all the details I want to be able to use these for wing folds. The air supply will already be in the plane due to using (new) Robart retracts for the main and tail gear.

rea59
01-28-2007, 11:31 PM
Got tired of waiting on Top Flite and went ahead and made my own leading edge to complete the wing.

# 1. Complete wing in bones on the bench

# 2. Wing Standing for size reference.

# 3. Wing features. Blue circles are for flap servos, Purple circles are for Aileron servos, Green circles are for landing gear mounts. And the red lines are where I would need to hinge the wing. I'm backing off this idea some because that is right between the #2 and #3 flap on each side. As you will note only one servo to control all three flaps on each side. Also the landing gear presents a problem with the fold cylinder. Any weight I add to this plane needs to occur forward of the CG. (less lead added later). I don't know, looks like I'll keep it as a one piece wing.

After I sheet the wing I'll be ready to start on the Fuse.

firemanbill
01-28-2007, 11:36 PM
Looking good Rea. That is sure going to be one sweet, rather large, bird!:eek: :D

Is that snow on the roof outside?! You ought to have plenty of time to work on her now!;)

Say hey to your Boy for me and let him know were all proud of him and his fellow servicemen!

rea59
01-28-2007, 11:40 PM
Looking good Rea. That is sure going to be one sweet, rather large, bird!:eek: :D

Is that snow on the roof outside?! You ought to have plenty of time to work on her now!;)

Say hey to your Boy for me and let him know were all proud of him and his fellow servicemen!

Thanks for the PM, I plan to pass that along to him.

Yes its been snowing off and on all day, No real accumulation though... means the runway is still clear:D

firemanbill
01-28-2007, 11:54 PM
Hey as long as the runways clear all is well!:D :D We got in a bit of flying this afternoon as well, til the wind picked up anyway.

When the garbage can came flying by we firgured we better pack it in...

rea59
01-29-2007, 12:20 AM
Hey as long as the runways clear all is well!:D :D We got in a bit of flying this afternoon as well, til the wind picked up anyway.

When the garbage can came flying by we firgured we better pack it in...

The wind has picked up here as well and coming your way. 32 MPH now with a wind Chill of 0F. http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q119/rea59/freezing.gif

rea59
01-31-2007, 07:58 PM
I've finished sanding the wing bones and am currently working on the skins. I know most of you active builders will have used this trick but for the new builders a method that will make your balsa skins look flawless.

#1 Using "Blue Painters Tape" tape your balsa sheets together. Make sure the seams are tight.

#2 Turn your skin over and place something under it to expose the seams.

At this point fill the seams with glue. I use regular Elmer's wood glue. (easier sanding)

#3 Lay your skin flat on a piece of wax paper and using your maxed out credit card you used to purchase your hobby supplies. (or you can use an auto body squeegee) Squeegee off the excess glue. Nice thing about Elmer's is its water based, so keep a wet rag around for cleaning the squeegee.

#4 Place a piece of wax paper on top and weight it down till the glue cures.

After the the glue cures remove the tape and sand both sides with a fine sandpaper. The idea here is to have your skin sanded smooth so you wont have to sand it on the model. (sometimes the ribs will show on the skin if you sand the model)

The pores of the wood on the side you squeegeed will be closed due to the glue. The taped side will be smooth and perfect. This is the side you want showing on your model.

So remember if you have to make a left and a right piece, tape on the opposite sides so both will have a smooth surface for your model.

OK thats enough of the teaching!!:o I need to get back to building.:eek:

rea59
02-04-2007, 12:26 PM
Here are some pics of the wing progress. Far from a finished product but coming along nicely. You'll just have to trust me its been a royal pain at times. The pics though don't do it justice, this wing has wonderful lines.

JWilliams
02-13-2007, 03:44 AM
That'll be impressive hwen it's finished. I just finished the thread on how much you've spent on it. I wonder if I could ever get the guts to sink so much time and money into something and then put it 300 feet up :)

rea59
02-13-2007, 03:53 AM
That'll be impressive hwen it's finished. I just finished the thread on how much you've spent on it. I wonder if I could ever get the guts to sink so much time and money into something and then put it 300 feet up :)

That thread only covered this past weekend. Thats why I said I'm afraid to add it all up.:D

Having enough nerve to put it 300' up isn't really the problem. It's having the skill to get it back down.:eek: I'm not there yet but hope to be by the time its done.;)

JWilliams
02-13-2007, 03:56 AM
That thread only covered this past weekend. Thats why I said I'm afraid to add it all up.:D

Having enough nerve to put it 300' up isn't really the problem. It's having the skill to get it back down.:eek: I'm not there yet but hope to be by the time its done.;)And I guess you can't really have a sim for that, either. At least with the months you'll put into it you know you won't get impatient and will wait for perfect conditions. My dad puts this level of workmanship into his model boats, but it's really hard to screw them up on a "maiden", worse case being wet pants and shoes from wading out. I guess a pack could light the thing on fire, but that's not so likely.

Good luck with the plane :D

NYCstevo
02-13-2007, 03:29 PM
Very - WOW! Nice job... I love building planes... I'll be watching this thread! How are you finishing the balsa sheeting? Are you covering it with monocote or similar covering?

rea59
02-13-2007, 04:17 PM
Thanks,

I'm still looking for a way to 'harden' the balsa then I plan on using something like Flite Metal to cover and produce the rivets & panel lines. Last of course will be paint.

Ray

NYCstevo
02-13-2007, 05:37 PM
That should really turn out nicely! I'd love to build a large scale detailed model with rivets myself! I'll take notes from you!


I'm looking forward to the covering process =)

rea59
02-15-2007, 10:01 PM
The kit comes with a plastic cowl (4 pieces) and plastic oil coolers for the wing. Although the oil coolers looked OK I didn't really care for the 4 piece cowl. To remedy this I had Fiberglass Specialties make me a one piece cowl, the oil coolers and the dummy radial engine. They are the best, fast and good quality. I would recommend them any for any of you building a scale model or if you just nosed your plane in to hard and need to replace the cowl.

Heres the pics. For reference the Dummy Radial is 9 inches in diameter.
Note the open vents at the trailing edge of the Cowl. Just like the real thing.

spitace
02-20-2007, 11:06 AM
Hey rea, in the picture that showed your wing on the bench in post 29, is that your JR sport in the background, because that looks exacly like my max66, and i have been wondering if they are the same thing.

rea59
02-20-2007, 03:44 PM
Hey rea, in the picture that showed your wing on the bench in post 29, is that your JR sport in the background, because that looks exacly like my max66, and i have been wondering if they are the same thing.


Yes thats the JR Sport. I just recived my new DX7 today that will be used for this build. (and many others)

spitace
02-20-2007, 11:48 PM
Okay thanks, i was wondering about that.

rea59
03-03-2007, 12:40 PM
I've been awaiting parts to arrive to continue on the wing so it pretty much still sits as in the last pictures. I needed the Main struts/Door Cylinders and hinges/Servos/Pneumatic System/etc.

In the mean time I've started on the fuse. This is built "Top half" then "Bottom Half". Not a lot of progress (I just got started)

Update: The Main struts have arrived. With Wheels on the weight is 1lb 2.2oz each. I still need door cylinders (they are being manufactured now).

#1 #2 #3 Pics of the Main Struts. Yes these are "real oleo" struts

#4 Main Fuse bones nose---As you can see the Main Air Tank (pneumatic struts/gear doors/canopy) has to be built into the frame and is not removable. Except in the case of a major crash but we won't think about that.

#5 Main Fuse bones tail --- Not everything pictured is glued but as you can see this area will be built up quite heavily. All the controls (rudder/elevator/tail wheel steering) will all be contained inside the fuse. IE: no external control horns.

That's it for now I'll add more as I make progress.

rea59
03-17-2007, 12:11 PM
Hi guys,

Not a lot of progress. I've been awaiting custom cylinders for the gear doors which has held up the wing and a cylinder for the canopy which has held up the fuse.

I hope to start today with covering the upper fuse but can only go so far while I wait for the cylinder. The covering is done with 1/8" balsa sheets so it should prove to be a little challenging.

Speaking of the canopy cylinder; Does anyone have any good suggestions for the rail system that the canopy will slide on? I've thought of several but haven't been able to make up my mind on the best way to approach it.

I know it seems odd to be looking at the Canopy at this stage with the bottom half the fuse not even started yet but once the skin goes on you can't get inside to make structural changes.

In other news the servos are finally on their way and the motor has arrived. (see pic)

At least while down on the build I've been able to get my MPXT converted to the new DX7 and I've also built a Slow Stick for some AP. If the weather cooperates I'll be flying them tomorrow.

Twizter68
03-17-2007, 12:43 PM
Nice Double AXI!! "6.1, 6.2, 6.5 from the East German Judge...."

Just checking in to see how it's coming; I had to re-engineer the wing lock setup (the original design kept hanging up) but I see you decided not to do wing folds...well, I should have plenty of time to figure that out before I build mine! (In 2011, after I retire!)

rea59
03-17-2007, 03:35 PM
Nice Double AXI!! "6.1, 6.2, 6.5 from the East German Judge...."

Just checking in to see how it's coming; I had to re-engineer the wing lock setup (the original design kept hanging up) but I see you decided not to do wing folds...well, I should have plenty of time to figure that out before I build mine! (In 2011, after I retire!)


I had the wing fold all figured out with the exception of the flaps. The fold splits between the 2nd and 3rd flap. Also I wanted the wing fold equipment in front of the cg and that was hindered by the landing gear mech. Splitting the flap drive would have also required another pair of servos adding more weight behind the cg. (there are 11 servos now)

19thsqn
03-20-2007, 04:22 AM
Hi!
Very nice building you have done there. and you will have very powerful motor with that double axi!! nice! you must to be rich, man!! ;)
im approaching my goal from other end designin my spitty to extrem light
and using much weaker axi 5360. 13kg is limit fo rmy plane ,its a hard goal.
but you dont have to worry about power for sure!!!
ill be watching your thread, so keep pics coming!! :)

19thsqn
03-20-2007, 04:29 AM
i just checked the rating your powersystem. peak power about 8hp!!!!
u will have more torque than in 100cm3 gasser!!!
it will have a WOW-factor for sure! HOTTIE!!!

rea59
03-20-2007, 02:41 PM
Thanks!!

This plane will have some weight to it so I wanted to make sure it had the power to overcome it. :D

robertloop
04-11-2007, 05:35 AM
Outstanding thread. Many thanks for the effort of keeping this thread so interesting.

rea59
04-11-2007, 08:31 PM
Outstanding thread. Many thanks for the effort of keeping this thread so interesting.


Thanks!

The build has been on hold for the past month waiting on the cylinders for the gear doors and canopy. :(

I just spoke with them yesterday and they hope to have the fixture they need and be able to complete the cylinders by the end of nest week. Maybe then I can get back to building.:)

rea59
05-10-2007, 10:16 PM
Robarts is now down to only one more cylinder to build. Time to get back to building this plane.

1. Pic of the Top Half of the Main Fuse (Bones)

2. Sheeting the top Half. -- This is a painstakingly slow process and I will supply more pics as I progress.

Thats it for today, I know its not much but this plane is starting to come together.

diablo
05-11-2007, 03:57 AM
wow, I like that :D

rea59
05-14-2007, 01:23 AM
wow, I like that :D


Thanks.

Here's more progress on the sheeting of the fuse.

rea59
05-27-2007, 05:54 PM
The cylinders have all arrived from Robarts. Although it took a long time I still want to thank Robarts for getting these cylinders made for me.

Putting the Canopy Cylinder in the plane required a lot of extra framing. I also had to decide how best to mount the cylinder to the canopy. This was made more difficult due to the fact that the canopy itself will not be mounted for a long time. I decided on using an aluminum tube through the fuse. This makes the plane from the outside look similar to the original.

I also made the cylinder mount out of aluminum and made it a floating style. (Wouldn't want the canopy to bind up.)

The stroke on the cylinder is 2.5 inches. This should allow for a good view of the detailed cockpit and also allow a pilot to fit in and out.

All bolts and nuts use Locktite and will then be covered over with Epoxy. (Once the sheeting is on this area will never be accessible).

Here's the pic's:(sorry about some being fuzzy my camera doesn't do close-ups very well) 5/29/07 -- I found the Macro setting for my camera but it's too late for these pic's.

1. New Framework
2. Floating Mount
3. 4-40 Blind Nuts and Epoxy
4. Canopy Rod to Rod end mount
5. Threaded ends
6. A view of where the canopy will mount.
7. Top view
8. Side view
9. Cylinder retracted

rea59
05-29-2007, 02:50 PM
A little more progress on sheeting the fuse. The first couple of pics show the actuator for the Canopy as compared to a pic of the original F4.

The top has a block added which has to be shaped for the Turtle back (some call it the Turtle Deck some the Razor Back I prefer the Turtle Back as thatís what we called it in the F4 Phantom II community.

The block for the Turtle Back is also the part of the structure for the vertical fin (rudder fin) and as such needs to be oriented correctly. The top of the frame needed to be sanded flat for this block. I found using a long sanding bar to be very helpful.

Looking at the front of the fuse (previous post) youíll note that this is a circle cut in half down the length of the plane. With the top half firmly on the building table (no warps or twists, it lays flat real nicely) I put my inclinometer on the bench and zeroed it. Then I was able to check the top of the Turtle Back frame and also the vertical fin (both side and trailing edge).

I know this is a slow build guys and maybe I can keep the posts steady for a while. Hope you are all enjoying this and maybe learning something along the way. Let me know if youíd like more detail (or even, less). I did stand-up teaching for seven years and Iíd hate to bore you or make this a hard read.

Enough of that hereís the picís:

1. Canopy Actuator
2. Comparison Pic
3. Turtle Back
4. Turtle Back/Rudder Fin
5. 24" Sanding Bar
6. Bench Zero/Incinometer
7. Turtle Back Frame Zero
8. Rudder Fin Side 90 Degrees to Turtle Back
9. Rudder Fin Trailing Edge 90 Degrees to Bench

19thsqn
05-30-2007, 06:59 PM
keep up good work! i keep my eye on this thread all the time..
there is not too much big scale electric warbirds.
i've been watching document from F4U. i think its marvelous bird!
smart design. and very good looking plane landing with flaps down!!!
lots of good looking moving scale details and so on.. yeah i like it!!! ;)

firemanbill
05-30-2007, 11:30 PM
It's really starting to look nice Ray! Can't wait to see her done!:ws:

rea59
07-08-2007, 10:14 PM
I've made a little more progress. The turtle back is now glued in a shaped. Next the fuse has to sit upside down to build the other half. This in itself presented a challenge. I could just mock something up for the build, but then when you think about it I'll also need something to keep it on its back while I put the batteries in and wing on. So thats when I decided to build a stand for it. Now that I can have it stable upside down I can now start adding control rods. Post more later.

BTW; with the stand I was able to use it to weigh the fuse. Stand = 8lb 5.8oz and the Upper fuse is 2lb 7oz (with air tank and canopy cylinder)

Pics;

1. Shaped Turtle Back
2. Stand
3. Stand (Yes thats a full size truck battery)
The stand had to be tall to accommodate the rudder. It looks high but the rudder will only have a couple inches clearance.

smokejohnson
07-08-2007, 11:34 PM
Nice job Ray. Just want to say thanks for sharing and subscribe.

rea59
07-09-2007, 02:16 AM
Thanks Smoke! Still a long ways to go yet.

rea59
07-10-2007, 09:37 PM
With the stand made and the fuse flipped the first step in building the bottom is to install servos and control rods. This is a large plane with large control surfaces, not withstanding the expense of the plane I would not want anyone to get hurt or property damage to occur due to a failure of a control rod or a stripped gear in a servo so I will be using 4-40 rods and high torque metal gear servos.

#1. If your like me inserting the brass grommet into the rubber grommet of a servo can cause pain to the fingers and a general sense of frustration to your normally calm state of mind.
Take a wooden dowel about the size of a pencil and sharpen it with a pencil sharpener. Used this to insert the brass into the rubber. Your state of mind will appreciate it's use. Note: do not use a real pencil as the lead will break. (don't ask how I know this).

#2 & 3 Rudder Servo: JR DS8711 digital, Metal Gear, Alum. Heat sink.
Height 1.5"
Width .83"
Length 1.59"
Weight 2.36 oz
Torque 403 oz/in @ 6V (yes I will run at 6V with a JR 2700mah Rx battery.
Speed 60 degrees in .15 sec

#4. Close up of 4-40 ball link for servo end.
#5. Close up of Solder connector for Rudder end. This area will have no access after model is completed. (after cutting to length I roughed up the rod by running a 3mm die over it.) Still need to get some silver solder to attach it.

Tinman
07-10-2007, 10:14 PM
Wow your one heck of a builder Ray! Looks great! Thanks for sharing and keep up the good work!

Mustang11
07-17-2007, 04:55 PM
Ray,
An observation here......... shouldn't the brass servo grommets go in from the bottom? I thought they were there to limit the rubber mounting pad crush as the screws are tightened, and without the collar/lip on the bottom they'll simply dig into the plywood/balsa base. That's been my experience anyway......... awesome build regardless!!

rea59
07-22-2007, 01:00 PM
Ray,
An observation here......... shouldn't the brass servo grommets go in from the bottom? I thought they were there to limit the rubber mounting pad crush as the screws are tightened, and without the collar/lip on the bottom they'll simply dig into the plywood/balsa base. That's been my experience anyway......... awesome build regardless!!


Very interesting observation. :<

I have worked with many different isolation mounts and the flange on the grommet always goes toward the screw or bolt head. This is to prevent the screw or bolt from digging into the rubber and there by allowing the rubber to slip off the brass grommet and screw. Note that the opposite end has a large surface which prevents it from moving in that direction. The point you raise is a valid one with regard to digging into the soft wood. If I flipped the brass grommet around I would need a washer against the screw head to hold the rubber. Then again a washer could be put against the wood side to prevent the digging.

(Sorry it took me so long to answer your post,:red: I took the kids on vacation to my Dad's farm in Missouri)

Do any others out there have a method they use that's different??? And what is your all's experience with the servos coming loose???



On a side note: While I was in Missouri I found hanging from the ceiling in a storage room a .40 size P40 Warhawk built in 1972. I have brought it home and will start another thread on making it flyable.:ws:

smokejohnson
07-22-2007, 02:05 PM
I have mine with the flange up. What Mustang11 is saying does make since but I have not had any issues going flange up. If I ever have that problem though now I have some ideas to fix it. That is if I can remember :red::).

Will you keep the Warhawk a slimer or convert it to electric? Sweet find :tc:.

rea59
07-22-2007, 02:13 PM
Will you keep the Warhawk a slimer or convert it to electric? Sweet find :tc:.


I don't know yet. Let me get some detailed pic's and post a thread then you guys can give me some ideals.:ws: (I know all the electronics have to be replaced):{

Mustang11
08-13-2007, 10:17 PM
Ray,
Funny you should mention the washer on top trick, I just used that on a SebArt Katana with microservos as the brass inserts were too long to allow any crush of the rubber pads. That's one of the multitude of things I love about this hobby; there are so many ways to do things and all of them work equally well! No worries on the reply time, my daughter is 5 and I understand about busy. Larry

xuzme720
09-05-2007, 05:35 AM
somehow have missed this one until now! fantastic build, Ray!

haze_b
09-05-2007, 09:20 PM
Aloha,

I'm a HUGE fan of electric flight, but just curious, why did you go for electric on such a big plane? ??

Wouldn't a gas/ignition setup be more economical?

rea59
09-05-2007, 10:11 PM
Aloha,

I'm a HUGE fan of electric flight, but just curious, why did you go for electric on such a big plane? ??

Wouldn't a gas/ignition setup be more economical?


As you say gas would be more economical but this build wasn't about saving money. I'm actually going a little overboard on this one money wise. When I was younger I had a nitro plane and then while in Japan I had nitro cars and trucks. I got back into RC a couple years ago with the electrics and haven't looked back since. They are much cleaner and less hassle to deal with. There weren't many big electric planes out there so this has been about the challenge of making a big heavy old war bird fly with electric power.

Bundy
09-06-2007, 02:54 AM
Hi Ray

Just came across this thread and you are doing a great job - always good to see large scale electrics.

I've built an electric version of the Brian Taylor Corsair which is a little smaller than yours at about 82" span. I still haven't maidened her yet as I'm having trouble getting her to balance. When people said to build the Corsair's tail light I thought I would be right with a 6" speaker for sound, working cowl flaps and a 10S lipo up front but I was wrong. I did build a scale tail wheel, working arrestor hook and working canopy but nothing too heavy in the tail I thought.

The EVO20 packs I planned to use are 300mm long but I just can't get enough weight far enough forward. I am already at 20 lb and I don't want to add nearly another 2 lb of dead weight in the front.

I've just received some of UnitedHobbies' 6S lipos which are a more compact shape so I hope these will balance her without adding lead. Don't know much about them but I guess I'll learn having used only EVO for the last few years.

I don't know about the Top Flite Corsair but the Brian Taylor one needs the tail built light! I just wish I'd taken the advice more seriously at the start.

For a bit of inspiration have you seen this folding wing on YouTube? http://youtube.com/watch?v=rBI1oA1Gjfc

Good building and I'll be sure to check back in often.

Richard

firemanbill
09-06-2007, 03:02 AM
Wow Richard that is really awesome!

Ray that should fire you up a bit huh?!

smokejohnson
09-06-2007, 03:26 AM
Wow Richard! Nice plane. Will you have machine gun sounds along with motor noise?

rea59
09-06-2007, 06:02 AM
Hi Ray

Just came across this thread and you are doing a great job - always good to see large scale electrics.

I've built an electric version of the Brian Taylor Corsair which is a little smaller than yours at about 82" span. I still haven't maidened her yet as I'm having trouble getting her to balance. When people said to build the Corsair's tail light I thought I would be right with a 6" speaker for sound, working cowl flaps and a 10S lipo up front but I was wrong. I did build a scale tail wheel, working arrestor hook and working canopy but nothing too heavy in the tail I thought.

The EVO20 packs I planned to use are 300mm long but I just can't get enough weight far enough forward. I am already at 20 lb and I don't want to add nearly another 2 lb of dead weight in the front.

I've just received some of UnitedHobbies' 6S lipos which are a more compact shape so I hope these will balance her without adding lead. Don't know much about them but I guess I'll learn having used only EVO for the last few years.

I don't know about the Top Flite Corsair but the Brian Taylor one needs the tail built light! I just wish I'd taken the advice more seriously at the start.

For a bit of inspiration have you seen this folding wing on YouTube? http://youtube.com/watch?v=rBI1oA1Gjfc

Good building and I'll be sure to check back in often.

Richard

Great looking bird you've got there. Good luck on the maiden. The Top Flite even with the gas motors require 3lbs of lead in the nose.

Wow Richard that is really awesome!

Ray that should fire you up a bit huh?!


Thanks,:roll: I guess I do need to get back to it.

Pig
09-09-2007, 04:01 AM
Ray, I know this is a long way off still, but what unit will your Corsair be a part of? May I suggest one of the most well known Navy Corsair pilots, Greg Boyington. Granted, he was a drunk and in later life accused of being a money grubber and exaggerator, but he was a helluva pilot! He was also posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor after he was thought dead. But, enough of history.

Fantastic work on this build!! That motor his huge!!! This is going to be awesome when done!! Please have lots of video footage of this in flight!

For reference, he's a good pic of Boyington's LuluBelle.

rea59
09-09-2007, 05:15 AM
Ray, I know this is a long way off still, but what unit will your Corsair be a part of? May I suggest one of the most well known Navy Corsair pilots, Greg Boyington. Granted, he was a drunk and in later life accused of being a money grubber and exaggerator, but he was a helluva pilot! He was also posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor after he was thought dead. But, enough of history.

Fantastic work on this build!! That motor his huge!!! This is going to be awesome when done!! Please have lots of video footage of this in flight!

For reference, he's a good pic of Boyington's LuluBelle.
Boyington would be a popular one and I have thought about it. Right now this is where I'm leaning. (I spent 4 years with the red devils)

rea59
09-19-2007, 10:58 PM
Just an update to let everyone know that I'm still working on this. I've spent a lot of time flying and working(for pay) that I haven't been able to spend on this project.

I have the main support for the wing saddle in and this creates the box area that the batteries Will go in. This in itself slows me down due to this plane originally is a gasser and I'm converting it as I go to electric. So i spend and inordinate amount of time just thinking and making plans for my next step in order to not miss anything in the conversion. (I don't want to be on step 435 and find out I should have done something different on step 173):eek:

Right now I'm looking at the battery sizes and area available and options for mounting and also for cooling.

I'm about 2 steps away from having the nose in it's full "round" configuration. I'll post more pic's as get a little further.

Thanks for keeping up with me.:ws:

rea59
09-21-2007, 05:44 PM
Ray,
An observation here......... shouldn't the brass servo grommets go in from the bottom? I thought they were there to limit the rubber mounting pad crush as the screws are tightened, and without the collar/lip on the bottom they'll simply dig into the plywood/balsa base. That's been my experience anyway......... awesome build regardless!!

Ray,
Funny you should mention the washer on top trick, I just used that on a SebArt Katana with microservos as the brass inserts were too long to allow any crush of the rubber pads. That's one of the multitude of things I love about this hobby; there are so many ways to do things and all of them work equally well! No worries on the reply time, my daughter is 5 and I understand about busy. Larry


We all learn new things every day. I just read this today from Great Planes Model Mfg.

Proper Servo Mounting:
The proper way to mount a servo is as follows:

Insert a rubber grommet into each of the four servo holes.
Insert a metal eyelet from the bottom side of the rubber grommet. This way the wide portion of the eyelet will be in contact with the servo tray when mounted.
Test fit the servo in the tray, and enlarge the openings so the servo will not touch the tray. The rubber grommets will isolate the servo from the hard vibration of the airplane's structure.
Position the servo, then mark the location of the mounting holes. Drill pilot holes with a 1/16" bit at each mark.
Use the servo screws supplied with your radio to mount the servo(s) in the servo tray. Tighten the screws until they just touch the top of the metal eyelet

Pig
09-24-2007, 03:07 AM
Ray, haven't seen any updates. What's the latest on this? Don't keep us in suspense.

FlyingMonkey
12-03-2007, 12:32 PM
yeah, still looking...

aero_k
12-03-2007, 10:13 PM
I'd like to see how this is going too.....

smokejohnson
12-04-2007, 01:39 AM
Watts up Ray?? :)

jb48
12-04-2007, 09:56 AM
Very interesting buildthread Ray. Keep us informed on any progress.

rea59
12-04-2007, 10:50 PM
Sorry guys, I haven't done much to it in the last few months. (still on the bench) My son and I have built about 20 Foamys and have been flying with all our spare time. (I have two 3D bipe's and two 3D planes I'm trying to finish up this week)

I'm a little stuck on the battery box... well not really "stuck" per'se. I've been researching sizes and making plans on securing the batteries. Also as the batteries will be in the plane with the wing on I'm going to have to switch them on externally. (still looking for a 4 pole ST switch or two DPST switches that are small yet can handle 65 Amps continuous and 100 amps peak). The hatch and switch box (main/RX switches and RX charge jack also air fill) will be an integral part of the bottom nose of the plane and there-by bottom of the battery box.

I plan on sliding the batteries in as two "packs" each of which will contain 4 5S batteries. (Two in series mounted on a board end to end with the other two mounted beside them on the same board and paralleled with the first.) So each pack will be made up of 5S batteries for a 10S2P configuration. (One board/pack for each motor). Then there is the cooling air for this area which I'm still working on the plans for.

I'm sure in the next few weeks I'll be moving forward with the construction of this.

hillbille
12-05-2007, 03:45 AM
Love this thread!

BTW - seems to me i read somewhere that for a high amp switch a guy used DEANS ULTRA connectors. I think it was a setup where he interrupted a power lead with a Female Deans Ultra and then as a "switch" he soldered a battery bar across a male Deans Ultra which could then be plugged into the female completing the circuit. This set up was placed in the bottom of the cowl and a plug was made for static display - but for flying the male was inserted into the female - completing - the circuit and acting as a very positive on/off "switch" and when removed no power!

Just a thought.

Hillbille

firemanbill
12-05-2007, 03:51 AM
Take your time Ray! No need to rush it...

but I can't wait to see it done so hurry up!:p:D

That's a good idea for power and safety HB.

rea59
12-05-2007, 10:06 PM
Love this thread!

BTW - seems to me i read somewhere that for a high amp switch a guy used DEANS ULTRA connectors. I think it was a setup where he interrupted a power lead with a Female Deans Ultra and then as a "switch" he soldered a battery bar across a male Deans Ultra which could then be plugged into the female completing the circuit. This set up was placed in the bottom of the cowl and a plug was made for static display - but for flying the male was inserted into the female - completing - the circuit and acting as a very positive on/off "switch" and when removed no power!

Just a thought.

Hillbille


Great Idea!! Thanks...I didn't think of that.:o

rea59
12-05-2007, 10:09 PM
Take your time Ray! No need to rush it...

but I can't wait to see it done so hurry up!:p:D

That's a good idea for power and safety HB.

Patience, Patience oh hurried one. A work of art is easy but a masterpiece takes time.;-)

firemanbill
12-06-2007, 12:38 AM
Patience, Patience oh hurried one. A work of art is easy but a masterpiece takes time.;-)

So what's taking you so long then...:rolleyes::p

firemanbill
02-05-2008, 01:40 AM
Hey Ray how's it coming along?:D

rea59
02-05-2008, 01:47 AM
Still sitting as I left it last:sad:

Been too busy to even get to it. I have built a half dozen new Foamys for when the weather clears. :tc:

It's not going anywhere, still on the bench awaiting my return to it.;-) I've a lot invested into it and have worked to improve my skills before completing it and getting tempted to fly it.:red::<:

firemanbill
02-05-2008, 01:50 AM
Well we are patiently waiting. Can't wait to see this beauty done!:)

rea59
04-09-2008, 10:44 PM
As the plans for some of the modifications have started to coalesce in my mind I started to itch....wanting to get some progress on this.....OK well theres that and I would really like to have some clear space on my bench.;-)

So guess what? I actually started mixing glue and putting more of this together. I even started making some of the "mod" pieces for the electrical hatch. The bottom of the fuse is now starting to take shape (skeleton).

I'll post more pic's when there's a little more progress....oh and when I get the batteries charged for the camera.:o

firemanbill
04-10-2008, 12:07 AM
Great! I was beginning to think you had given up!;-):D

Looking forward to seeing more!

rea59
04-19-2008, 11:50 AM
Here's some progress.

I needed to modify the front nose bottom for a hatch. This will allow me access to turning the batteries on and filling the air tank. I used neodymium rare earth magnets to hold the hatch closed.

1. Fuse Bottom Bones
2. Tail Gear Section (will get cut out after I sheet it)
3. Wing joiner section
4/5/6. Original Front Bottom Nose Section
7. Modifying Front Nose Section
8/9/10. New Hatch Section

rea59
04-19-2008, 11:56 AM
Heres a close-up of the latch for the utility door. I used 2 neodymium rare earth magnets 3/8" x 1/8" 4lbs pull each on the door side and some 4-40 Bind nuts for the frame side. It works great.:tc:

More to show:$....Just need to take more pic's.:D

1. Close-up of Mag Latch

rea59
04-20-2008, 11:17 AM
She wants to fly!..............I can feel it....................just sitting there.....................all alone on a bench with blue Sky's outside the window.



Makes my fingers itch for the controls.






Wait a minute..........Hold on...........I'm not yet good enough to fly this one. .............But she's an airplane, with wings and controls.......................no, no must resist.




Probably a good thing shes taking so long to build.

rea59
04-21-2008, 10:43 PM
More Pic's....It was hard though to work on this today...(I've been working on getting my new Telemaster Electro ready:$)

This plane needs two servos and air control valves, one for the Canopy and one for the gear. This presented a problem due to the need for 8 5S batteries, I'm just running out of room. So in the first two pic's you'll see that I added a second layer to the Servo shelf. In effect adding a whole second shelf. This allows me room for the valves / receiver and receiver battery. Also remember that this plane was designed for an IC motor and gas tank not batteries.

The second set of pic's show the new hatch area and utility shelf.

1. Servo shelf - original
2. New servo shelf addition.
3. Hatch area before.
4. Hatch area with new Utility shelf.

hillbille
04-22-2008, 01:18 AM
Looks really good! That's the nice thing about these builds along with the size of the plane is that you get to make mods fairly easily as you go along. Isn't it weird ho when you start a project like this you open the box and think "this thing is waaaay too big for MY flying!" and then later as the build progresses you begin to worry that there just isn't enough room for all the gear you want!! LOL!! But also it's the little things thought out and well done now that will make this plane fly well later. Take your time and enjoy the build - we certainly are through the updates and pictures.


Hillbille

Alpea42
05-15-2008, 05:29 PM
This one wasn't so big LOL A Cox Minni AUW 4 oz.

rea59
05-15-2008, 10:44 PM
This one wasn't so big LOL A Cox Minni AUW 4 oz.


LOL...I think my motor is bigger than that::o:Q


I have more progress guys, and more pic's but they won't make much sense till I do a little more. Once I have those pic's then I'll be able to post them showing more progress/features.

If that makes any sense:confused:

Lieutenant Loughead
05-21-2008, 10:22 PM
WOW! Absolutely amazing! :eek:

What's the expected AUW? :confused:

SUBSCRIBED!

rea59
05-21-2008, 10:29 PM
WOW! Absolutely amazing! :eek:

What's the expected AUW? :confused:

SUBSCRIBED!

I'm expecting 28 to 29 lbs but the motor will be good for 33 lbs. That said however the new A123's could reduce the weight even more leaving me with "extra" power....anyone ever seen a "3D" warbird....he he;-)

SkunkyMagoo
05-21-2008, 10:31 PM
I would not even consider anything less than A123 cells, amazing build cant wait to see it in the air :D

rea59
05-21-2008, 10:48 PM
I've done more work but still not quite ready to post the pic's yet (also need to take a few more). After getting my AMA number I joined a local club. Today I received my key to the gate and plan on taking my Telemaster and Chipmunk to the field tomorrow morning (I also spent time working on my Monster Pitts and going to my daughters graduation from 5th grade) The club field has two 50 foot wide by 600 foot long runways (one grass and one paved) I'll be flying there in preparation for someday maidening this one.

firemanbill
05-21-2008, 11:32 PM
She's looking good Ray! Coming along very nicely.

Can't wait to see her done!:D:cool:

BaldEagel
05-24-2008, 11:24 AM
Great build Ray, thought I would share a couple of pics of the Plettenberg in spinner motor in my 2.1M Composite Extra, the front former has been suitalbly braced since the pics where taken.

Have you run up the double motor Axi yet, if so with what sort of results?

Have you looked at he Kodiak switch yet? I just bought four more to convert the rest of my fleet to A123 batteries.

Mike

rea59
05-24-2008, 02:10 PM
Neat!

Haven't run up the motor yet due to no batteries.:o With batteries there is a shelf life so I am waiting till the build is almost complete before purchasing. Also better and lighter batteries may be available by then. Currently the A123's are available in 1 to 4 cell configurations (I will need 8 each in a 5 cell configuration) I'm sure I could make these or have them made up but then by the time this build is ready for the batteries 5 cell should be readily available. I have checked out the Kodiak switch and it does look suitable for some applications but here's the problem area. I really don't want to run 30 to 40 amps "through" the receiver as the Kodiak does. The 'Power Box" runs only the "signal" through the receiver and the "high current" side to the servos bypassing the receiver. Most receivers simply are not capable of "drawing" the amount of current that the Kodiak switch can provide.

BaldEagel
05-24-2008, 02:58 PM
Ray

Its rearly a question of how much power your servo's are going to pull through the Rx bus, most Rx's will happily take 20amps into the servo bus connections, Spektrum have brought out an even bigger capacity Rx for Giant Scale Applications.

As to the A123's I source them from DeWalt 36volt batteries and solder up my own packs, lots of information on how to do this on the web, I will look up some links and post them for you.

Mike

EDIT: to add link: http://www.slkelectronics.com/DeWalt/index.htm

Gryohead
06-19-2008, 02:55 PM
Any update on this plane yet? Have you hadit in the air yet? No post on this thread since May.
Gryohead????

rea59
06-21-2008, 12:03 AM
Haven't done much in the last six weeks. (It is after all flying season:D)

I added a couple of bulkheads to both sides of the nose. This was a 'dead' area but I'm going to use it to direct airflow to the batteries. Note the holes added into the battery area. The utility shelf is also complete. It's also removable in case anything is in the way I can re-route it. Added the forward skins to the bottom of the fuse and used painters tape on the wing saddles to prevent changing the shape while sanding the same shape into the outer skin. (this area will also get a 1/16 ply covering to fill the gap between the outer skin and plywood saddle former thus creating the area that rests on the wing.) Taped all the way around the hatch area before putting the skin on it to prevent the skin from accidentally adhering to the fuse. Last a pic of the nose bottom covered and shaped. You can see the firewall and clearly see the right thrust built in. (plane is upside down)


1. Vent area
2. Wing saddle
3. Utility area
4. Taping the utility area before skinning
5. Nose skinned and shaped.

rea59
06-21-2008, 12:11 AM
Any update on this plane yet? Have you hadit in the air yet? No post on this thread since May.
Gryohead????

Welcome to Wattflyer!

As you can see this plane is still under construction. I also plan on detailing it so it'll probably be another year or longer before it's maiden flight. (during the build of this one I've built 20 others both balsa (ARF) and foamys (scratch) Have to increase my flying skills before this is ready.;-)

jonloe
06-23-2008, 04:26 PM
wow it is looking spectacular,i just read through this entire thread, and im crazy impressed at what you have done

ill definitely be following this one!


jon joe

rea59
06-23-2008, 10:43 PM
wow it is looking spectacular,i just read through this entire thread, and im crazy impressed at what you have done

ill definitely be following this one!


jon joe

Thank you for your interest. As stated in the first post this will be a long slow build. The plane is a monster and takes up all of my bench. Soon I will have to combine the wing and fuse to do some work on the belly pan. Room to work will be a real issue then:(. However she is looking real good and tests my skills at every turn.::o I too watch and wait for it to be completed.;-):D

jonloe
06-23-2008, 10:58 PM
sounds great

i hope one day i will do something like this. maybe even a corsair im a sucker for corsairs

Grasshopper
07-28-2008, 05:03 PM
Any more progress Ray? I'd be more than happy to come back to Kentucky and fly it off that nice paved runway when it's done.:Q:p>

rea59
07-28-2008, 09:57 PM
No recent progress.......Building/Flying/repairing.......and of course spending too much time at work. Hope to get back to it soon though.


Hmmmm...I wonder if that runway is big enough.;-)

Grasshopper
07-28-2008, 10:10 PM
After seeing the motor you're putting in it, I think all you will need is the taxi way.:D

bladerunner1955
09-19-2008, 04:24 AM
REA59,
I really didn't want to clog your great thread up with my stuff but when I tried to send you a private email though this site it said I could not because I did not have enough post yet. I would really like to talk with you about some motor information when you get the time.
And again sorry to have to drop in like this.
Don Hofeldt here in Huntington Beach California. I sure would like to talk with you about your double AXI set up. I have been using the new AXI 5345/16 on 12 cells and have had good luck flying my 24 pound P-51 and a 24 plus pound Sky Shark P-40. My email is bladerunner1955@verizon.net . I didn't want to clog up your great thread with my planes but I would like for you to see some clips. I'll try to stick one here you can copy and put into your address bar to see a You Tube clip of a couple of my warbirds. Hope to hear from you and good luck on your corsair,looking great! I just picked up an older Byron Corsair last weekend and maybe we can share some information with each other.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q1JCb-i8Xs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWs8ZfS7xbg
Later from Don Hofeldt
Oh I might mention I was one of the 3 guys who did the motor work on the 275 pound model of the Spruce Goose used in the movie"The Aviator" Thats another story,but sorta cool.

RogerC
11-16-2008, 10:22 PM
While we wait for rea59...
I want to get a large Corsair and am about to order the TopFlite Giant kit. I would like to use a AXI 5345/16 on 10 or /18 on 12 instead of the dual 5330/20. My idea is to build light for electric and cover with Monokote. I would also consider Neu or Hacker etc but don't know anything about them I only have AXI motors and I use only Castle ESCs. I have a hv85 and hv110 available for this project. What does anybody think?

I was also thinking of the Brian Taylor plans and parts from Bob Holman but understand they are getting hard to get now.

Any other candidates for an 80"+ Corsair?

Thanks.

Don - have you flown the Byron yet?

bladerunner1955
11-17-2008, 01:21 AM
Rodger your right on the money thinking this big ol bird will be in the 30 pound range. I talked with John at Iron Bay about the expected weight of 30 pounds on my Byron. He said that is what they fly at. My Byron is running the AXI 5345/16 on 12 cells and a 22/12 carbon fiber prop. The carbon fiber really adds some power as you have zero flex like with the APC props. I have the 22/12 WE, wide meaning it has just a touch more bite. I have not flown it yet but hope to in the next couple weeks. I needed some extra weight as far up front as possible so I had my friend make a metal prop nut that will go inside the spinner. then I got a dummy engine that weighs 12 oz. Lets see if I can stick some pictures in this reply. I had the wings on and balanced it at 31 pounds. I have the cowl set up to come off with 4 allen heads and then the firewall, motor, lipolys, esc,cowl are all one unit.

RogerC
11-17-2008, 01:59 AM
Looks good Don. Maybe you could build a 14s2p pack of A123s and arrange the cells inside and outside of the plywood tube in front of the firewall so all your weght is up front instead of using those long lipo packs.
The A123s don't burn and are steel cased so you don't have to protect them so much. I was thinking that the TopFlite Corsair would need an A123 pack like that because it is supposed to have a big heavy 40-70cc gas engine that weighs 3.5 to 5.5 pounds and the AXIs are so dammed light.

RogerC
11-17-2008, 02:03 AM
I worry that I will lose momentum if I buy this TopFlight kit but I'm tired of waiting for a H9 monster. (they canceled the big P-47) H9 builds light big ARFs.

RogerC
11-17-2008, 02:06 AM
Here's a Byron Corsair build... did Iron Bay buy the Byron design?

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6900322/mpage_13/key_/tm.htm

RogerC
11-18-2008, 02:52 AM
I ordered the TopFlight Corsair yesterday. I have started a build thread here (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=955122).

ENUT
11-19-2008, 04:01 PM
BLADERUNNER,What about a 4 blade scale prop? That is what I like about e-power.It lets you the builder dictate what prop to use.looks good.
ENUT.

bladerunner1955
11-19-2008, 04:14 PM
E-Nut,
If I knew more about multi bladed props I would go for the 4 blades. I have had such good luck with these carbon fiber 2 bladed props I don't want to rick ANY lose of power with this conversion. I really think I am pushing the limits of the AXI 5345/16 power set up. I will use 12 cells and do fly a couple other 25 pound planes with this set up but this corsair is going to weigh 30 pounds. If I had a pot of gold I know their is motor set ups that can deliver more power. But I hae to draw the line somewhere on spending money to get an airplane in the air. I beleive my set up is going to fly it but that first turn might be interesting???? I flew this set up next to a P-51 that had a DA-50 in it and I was even maybe a hair faster than the DA-50. The P-51's were both Top Flight 1/5 scale ARF's and weighed the same.

CHAD VEICH
12-28-2008, 01:41 AM
Subscribing to the thread and looking forward to updates.

Chad Veich

rea59
12-28-2008, 10:18 AM
OK guys, I'm here
I know it's been a while ...... been concentrating on my flying and building (ARF's mostly and a scratch built 55" ws ), hoping to get back to the corsair in a couple of days. Yea it's still on the bench and I need the space for a nice crop duster I want to build. :-) At least I'm landing more than crashing now he he but I know my skills are not up to the corsair .....yet, so the build is not really 'pressing'. Been flying mostly in the 6 to 8lb range and having fun with it. Still though I'm itching to get back to it.

Mr-Electric
01-25-2009, 09:19 PM
Great work bladerunner1955

nice to see someone get on with it and get it done

nice start rea59 (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/member.php?u=8469) just need a big finish:roll:

P.S. very good videos bladerunner1955

bladerunner1955
01-26-2009, 05:28 PM
Great work bladerunner1955

nice to see someone get on with it and get it done

nice start rea59 (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/member.php?u=8469) just need a big finish:roll:

P.S. very good videos bladerunner1955
As not to clog up this thread with question from me could I ask you Mr. Electric to email me at bladerunner1955@verizon.net to talk about some Spectrum questions,and some large projects Iam doing at this time?
Thanks from Don aka bladerunner

rea59
10-18-2009, 02:15 PM
This has been a great flying season!! My skills have dramatically improved. I'm starting to get the itch now to complete this project and get it in the air. We'll see how much time I have this winter to devote to working on this................................

PaperAirplane
11-12-2009, 02:32 AM
Complete it!!! I will try to build a (GWS) Corsair this winter as well.

V6Goose
12-02-2009, 02:44 PM
I'm signed up too... :D

I'm bashing an H9 and have just decided to convert it to electric (my first) hence my spending so much time in here crash learning how it all works...

Best of luck

Goose

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9290245

UGLYPUG
04-04-2011, 05:14 PM
Well,,, where is the rest of this build?? I am working on one myself,,not with all the fancy mods like this one,, but will be electric ,, electrifly 65cc equivalent size, with two 6s, 5800mah batteries, a two hundred hobbyking esc. I started adding on to another guys giant TF build, Floopy, that stopped posting just like this one. I started last June. It is on RC universe Top Flite F4U corsair gold giant scale project. I started adding on page 2, and some pics. If anyone wants to see,,,, I sure wanted to see how he did his panel lines,,, too late now I guess,,,http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8166714/anchors_8185932/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#8185932

krtf4u_corsair
04-04-2011, 09:23 PM
I'm a lil late, but I'm subscribed. I guess my names give it away, but the Corsair has been my dream plane since I started flying RC. The gull wing gets me everytime!

UGLYPUG
04-05-2011, 08:05 PM
I'm a lil late, but I'm subscribed. I guess my names give it away, but the Corsair has been my dream plane since I started flying RC. The gull wing gets me everytime!

Have you seen anymore updates on this thread?? I would love to see how it turned out.

krtf4u_corsair
04-05-2011, 09:13 PM
Have you seen anymore updates on this thread?? I would love to see how it turned out.

I sure haven't, I didn't realize that this thread was so old. Or I wouldn't of subscribed! haha. Oh well :(

UGLYPUG
04-06-2011, 03:20 PM
I sure haven't, I didn't realize that this thread was so old. Or I wouldn't of subscribed! haha. Oh well :(

I SENT THE GUY AN EMAIL AND ASKED HIM WHAT WAS GOING ON,,, NO RESPONSE YET,,, IT WAS SURE A NICE START ON THE PLANE,,,

I AM POSTING ON A ANOTHER THREAD,, I PUT THE LINK BELOW,,,
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8166714/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm
I TRIED AGAIN,,, I STARTED POSTING ON THE SECOND PAGE OF THAT THREAD, POST 35. SOME GUY FLOOPY STARTED LIKE THIS GUY, AND QUIT. SEE IF YOU CAN CHECK OUT MY POSTS,,, I AM NOT ADDING ALL THOSE FANCY MODS, BUT IT IS ALL ELECTRIC!! I DID NOT KNOW THIS POST WAS HERE, OR I WOULD HAVE STARTED HERE! MAYBE I CAN FINISH HERE?? AFTER ALL, IT WILL BE ELECTRIC. I AM JUST STARTING TO PUT THE FINISH AND SANDING ON THE WINGS AND FUSELAGE. I STILL HAVE A WAYS TO GO, AS I AM MOUNTING THE BATTERIES RIGHT BEHIND THE FIRE WALL, AND WILL HAVE TO MAKE A TOP HATCH THERE,,, I WISH THIS GUY WAS STILL POSTING. I NEED ADVICE ON TRYING TO MAKE RIVETS FOR PANEL LINES. OH WELL,,, WHAT SAY YOU AND I START OUR BUILDING POSTS ON HERE??? I FORGOT TO ASK ARE YOU GOING TO START BUILDING ONE OF THESE??

krtf4u_corsair
04-06-2011, 03:41 PM
WHAT SAY YOU AND I START OUR BUILDING POSTS ON HERE??? I FORGOT TO ASK ARE YOU GOING TO START BUILDING ONE OF THESE??
Haha nah I don't do the building thing. I've only put together some ARF's.

UGLYPUG
04-06-2011, 03:48 PM
I almost wish this had been an arf. If i was covering this thing with monokote, i would be a lot farther along. All this sanding is killing my right arm, which has a 60 percent tendon tear at the acromial clavicular joint, as the mri says,,, i guess after the flying season is over, i will have to get the operation,,, but for now,,, i am gonna finish this sucker !! I also have a bonanza, which will be electric, i bought it from a guy who built it from a tf kit, and the a-26 arf, twin, also going to be elec. It is a big, i think around 90 inch wing span. But, i have to finish this thing before i think about those two....
I have built two of the tf 60 size kits before. I lost the last one when, and two other planes, with a futaba 6ex radio transmitter, that futaba finally replaced with a new transmitter, and i got this from a guy that won it but doesn't like to build. So,,,, here i am,,,, did you check out my posts on the other thread??

krtf4u_corsair
04-06-2011, 04:19 PM
i guess after the flying season is over, i will have to get the operation,,, but for now,,, i am gonna finish this sucker
Sounds like your gonna fight through it. Keep it up!

id you check out my posts on the other thread

I'm gonna keep a look in on it. Looks like your doing a pretty good job so far. It's looking good.

UGLYPUG
05-22-2011, 03:56 AM
Well folks. I am getting near the time to start installing my wiring and battery compartment. I have mounted the motor, and removed to finish up the other stuff. I have not permanently installed the tail feathers until I get the battery compartment and wiring completed. I am painting everything with the blue and white colors, but I think I will try to fly this thing before I install the cockpit and radial motor, and doing the panel lines and top coat of semi gloss clear. If it doesn't fly, at least I will not lose all that work time! I also assembled some partial carbon fiber push rods for the elevators! The last two feet are carbon fiber and the first is a threaded metal push rod screwed into the carbon rod and glued with JB weld, as recommended by some website that sells these rods. I was going to buy some 38 inch rods from this guy, but he said I had to glue on the ends,, I said, I thought he was selling a finished product, so I would not have to be worried about my glue job, and if I had to glue it, I may as well build one from scratch myself.
..The first foot of metal rod, is near the center of the plane, so it won't add weight to the tail,, and these things are a lot lighter than those rods that come with this thing!
,,Now, my main subject,, I am planning on using two 4MM shorted connectors for an on/off switch , like a deans plug on my smaller planes. My esc has two pos and two neg wires, so I figure on separating the pos wires, and using two "switches" for each one,, so half of the 150 or more amps will travel through each one,, And the negative will just be direct wired of course,,,What do "ya'll" think?? Any other suggestions?

UGLYPUG
07-01-2011, 02:59 AM
Well,, it is ready for a test flight tomorrow,, will let you know how it goes,, wish me luck guys,,,, UglyPug

Nitro Blast
07-06-2011, 02:32 AM
UP, I'm with you in spirit brother...

Do well, and be respectful for the first flights. Don't go up hunting Zeke's on the maiden!

Fair wind and following skies for ya...

UGLYPUG
07-06-2011, 03:57 AM
WELL,, Ran up the motor for 4 minutes at 3/4 throttle the night before to make sure the batteries had enough power to get up and back down,, That went well,,, Then out to the field, and ran up for 30 seconds,, then out for some taxi tests,, found the gear out of alignment, and Kevin helped fix that problem, and found that the robarts were not tight! Then installed fresh batteries,, and rolled out to the runway,, then,,,, a little blip of the throttle,,, and and , and,, the ESC went up in smoke! 180 bucks worth of Hobby King Monster 2000 , 200 amp ESC smoked, no other damage, and, I bought all the parts to build last Apr 2010, so out of warranty, 3rd time to power that thing up! Just ordered the Castle Creations HV 160 amp ESC, got a discount through tower, than goodness. Well, maybe next week,, Some time to work on my top flite, discontinued Beech Bonanza Giant scale,, Till next time,,,,, will update on next try..

rcers
07-06-2011, 01:53 PM
WELL,, Ran up the motor for 4 minutes at 3/4 throttle the night before to make sure the batteries had enough power to get up and back down,, That went well,,, Then out to the field, and ran up for 30 seconds,, then out for some taxi tests,, found the gear out of alignment, and Kevin helped fix that problem, and found that the robarts were not tight! Then installed fresh batteries,, and rolled out to the runway,, then,,,, a little blip of the throttle,,, and and , and,, the ESC went up in smoke! 180 bucks worth of Hobby King Monster 2000 , 200 amp ESC smoked, no other damage, and, I bought all the parts to build last Apr 2010, so out of warranty, 3rd time to power that thing up! Just ordered the Castle Creations HV 160 amp ESC, got a discount through tower, than goodness. Well, maybe next week,, Some time to work on my top flite, discontinued Beech Bonanza Giant scale,, Till next time,,,,, will update on next try..

You actually potentially cooked that ESC by doing a nearly 5 minute ground run of the system. NEVER EVER, EVER do that!

As you know now - it is very hard on the power system components especially with hot summer temps.

I am not a huge fan of the Hobby King stuff anyway so not really sure of the reliability of their high amp stuff. In fact all of the high amp stuff tends to be a bit of a crap shoot. Castle makes excellent stuff so that was a good backup choice.

IMHO these high dollar aircraft are worth high quality components.

Sorry about the smoke - but again I limit ground static tests to less than 30 seconds with 10-15 seconds being more the norm.

Mike

UGLYPUG
07-06-2011, 09:10 PM
Thanks for the info,,, Won't do that again,, but, the run up was the night before. The day of the test flight, I only ran it up for the 20 to 30 seconds,, then did some taxi tests for over a minute, and all was well. It acted like the starting capacitors went bad, but they are still fine. The prop just did a little jiggle, and that was that. Why should it decide to go poof, after all the little testing of below 1/2 throttle, on that day, in the early morning while it was still cool? And, the ESC did not even get warm to the touch the night before. The motor did get warm, but not the ESC. I did not run it up wide open the night before, just between 1/2 and 3/4. I will be sure not to do that again, anyway, just in case. I would have worried if the ESC had gotten hot the night before. Also, I got an over sized, 200 amp ESC just to prevent such a thing from happening. It only needs a 160, at most. I am just very confused by it crapping out, when it never got hot. I am worried about the motor maybe getting hot and causing some kind of a problem, but, I ohm check all leads, and each one has the same ohm reading,, so no problem with one set of windings causing a synch problem with the ESC. Thanks,,,, Fried in Florida,,

rcers
07-06-2011, 11:44 PM
Well it does not sound like heat was a big issue then.

Sometimes stuff just fails. I am not a big fan of HobbyKing stuff - so I think your CC 160 is the right way to go.

How many amps are you pulling with the setup?

Mike

UGLYPUG
07-07-2011, 06:21 AM
I haven't made the adapters to hook up the meter yet. I still have 4mm connectors on the meter , and the batteries have the 5.5 or 6mm connectors on them. I will take care of that before my Castle ESC arrives so I can check on that. According to the advice I got from some folks that have been using the same set up I have, I should not have a problem with amp draw. The folks using my motor have been using up to a 26x12 prop, and I am only using a 24x12 prop. I am going to connect a 100 amp esc I have to the motor without a prop and make sure it works before I connect my new 160 amp with a prop and check the amp draw. Do you think if it works like that, it should be ok to test the new one?? If it runs up with no prop, that should mean the motor and the ESC are able to stay in sync? That the windings are OK?? Something funny,, on another site, I was talking to a guy, that had connected his new Castle 120 ESC , and 30 seconds later, it caught fire, and he was not even running it up,,, so, I guess you just never know, like a gasser throwing a rod, or the carb diaphragm crapping out. Gasser or electric,, they all have problems. My sixty size hanger 9 corsair with a HK 100 amp and HK 120 size motor and 3 blade 16x10 prop have been running great for over a year,, my favorite plane! I am looking forward to this thing doing the same. thanks again,,, fried in fla,,

rcers
07-07-2011, 02:19 PM
Yep the high power stuff just tends to fail suddenly and without much warning. It is strange and unpredictable.

The issue with trusting others is you are at their measurement and accuracy mercy. While this is generally good - sometimes they are WAY off. I have a buddy who makes remarkable models but still uses the "finger" test for amp draw. Finger on the motor, ESC and battery - "O that seems OK". I have watched him fail many times due to that.

You can test with no prop - I do that frequently to test the ESC and motors. I usually use a much smaller battery (i.e. 3 cell on a 6 cell setup) since I am just testing anyway. That usually just means I can hold the motor in my hand.

I can't remember if the 160 CC esc has data logging but if it does you can use that for amp draw. I use the ICE ESC's for that data logging - then no meter is needed!

Also - when you get to 100+ amps you really need to get a DC clamp on type meter IMHO. The in-line meters add wire (BAD) and can cause ESC voltage ripple (bad that is what the caps are trying to smooth out) and can smoke stuff too.

Isn't high voltage/amp stuff fun! Random testing, smoking equipment motors failing etc... YEA!

UGLYPUG
07-07-2011, 04:42 PM
You are taking all the fun out of this!! I may have to think about putting in a (gasp) gas motor,,,, but, I have seen them conk out on take off too,,,, And they are so messy,,, Have you run many 65CC equivalent size electric motors? What kind of luck have you had? http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1225415&page=5 This is where I have been talking to some guys that have been having some success with my particular motor. They sounded pretty enthusiastic. Hope the link posted and you don't have to type it in,,, Ah,, it worked,,,

rcers
07-07-2011, 04:51 PM
Don't get discouraged everthing has pro's and cons. Gas/glow is messy and smelly. Large electrics are expensive. So it is what it is.

I don't run anything that large. 8s is my max to date. Most of my bigger stuff is 4-6s as that is the stuff that fits in my car nicely.

:D

Mike

UGLYPUG
07-07-2011, 05:07 PM
Ok,, thanks for giving me back my courage to proceed! The other biggest I have is an E-flite Power 160, running on an HK 100 amp esc. I used to use just two 4s packs, but have stuffed a 6s and 4s in for 10s! Oh, it is in a CMP Cessna 182, 83 inch wingspan. It has been running great except for one little glitch. The other day, I took off , and had a 120HK esc,, and the prop nut was loose,, when the prop slipped and the motor was wide open with no load,, I think it over sped, faster than the esc could compensate, and fried the esc! I barely made it back to the runway with no damage,,, Scared the crxx out of me! But is working fine on the 100 amp esc now. My other two favorite planes, are a Hanger 9 corsair and spitfire 60 size. Both running on 100 amp HK ESCs . The spit has an e-flite power 90, and the corsair an HK 270 rpm/volt, 120 size motor,, The spit with the higher kv motor really screams! It is my fastest, and best flying plane, but, I enjoy the corsair more. If it just did not have those crappy H-9 retracts! I am building, er, assembling a TF bonanza kit I bought at a swap meet, the guy has done a super job building, and I am just putting it together, installing the motor and electronics,, not much to do really,,, It looks beautiful, and will have a Eflite power 110, running either 9s or 8s,, 8s will probably be enough.. And then I have this 90 inch A-26 ARF I need to get around to someday,, twin HK sixty size motors too,,, Wife doesn't know I have that yet,,,,

UGLYPUG
10-23-2011, 04:42 AM
Finally got the TF Giant scale corsair in the air! Finally got my Castle 160HV ICE2 back from castle, and ground tested it. Then went to the field and tried it out. The first flight was around 3 1/2 minutes. It took off great, and had only a slight roll to the right. The landing was not great, but still in one piece. Had to land without flaps, as it pitched down when deployed. Found out I had to adjust the elevator to not move as the flaps are moved down. Finally got about 5 minutes on the third flight, and should have had about one more minute without over taxing the batteries. I am using two 6 cell 30C 5800 mah Zippy's in series from Hobby King. I may order a couple of the 6000 mah nano techs. AUW is currently 27 lbs. So far I haven't had to add any weight to the nose. I still need to do the finish work now that it flies. I wish I could do the detail work like you guys do. At least it flew!!

hemlock
01-29-2012, 05:09 PM
OK guys, I'm here
I know it's been a while ...... been concentrating on my flying and building (ARF's mostly and a scratch built 55" ws ), hoping to get back to the corsair in a couple of days. Yea it's still on the bench and I need the space for a nice crop duster I want to build. :-) At least I'm landing more than crashing now he he but I know my skills are not up to the corsair .....yet, so the build is not really 'pressing'. Been flying mostly in the 6 to 8lb range and having fun with it. Still though I'm itching to get back to it.

Dear Rea59,

This is the last post I can find on your TF Corsair build. Is there a continuation somewhere?

Thanks in advance...

UGLYPUG
01-30-2012, 04:58 AM
Hi Hemlock... I was also wondering what happened to Rea59. I got 4 good flights on my TF Corsair, and am back on the bench to do the "finish work". So far I have just rewired the switch compartment. I have put on all the new 6mm connectors on the batteries and now have those on the esc. These have connector plugs like the 4mm plugs, so the ends cannot touch. I have been flying so much that I haven't really been able to get motivated to get moving. I have been trying to find where to get the best pics to use in locating the panel lines and rivets. It won't be all that great looking, as I am not a master builder, but I want to see how good a job I can do. I hope I can keep the weight below 28 lbs, as I am currently at 27 lbs. I don't know if I said or not, but the Rimfire 65cc (equivalent) motor and the CC 160 ESC provided plenty of power. You just have to keep up the landing speed to make a good landing. Don't worry about over running the end of the runway. That is where I make my mistakes on landing. Hope Rea59 gets back to his build. I would like to see how a really good build turns out......