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View Full Version : Good .40 sized sport plane to electrocute?


Twmaster
09-25-2005, 04:49 PM
I just bought a wrecked 40 sized SIG Rascal with a -BIG- Kontronik 600 brushless setup and MMS 3:1 monster gearbox. The plane was a missile on 12 cells. Too bad it had a sign post jump out in front of it on final....

Anyhow, since the plane is pretty much trashed I'd like to find a nice kit to build as a sport flyer for this power setup.

Suggestions?

Mike Wizynajtys
09-27-2005, 04:32 PM
Gee, there are lots of options. There are a zillion stick type planes that convert well, like the GP Dazzler or Tower Uproar. Of course, there are all the different versions of the Sig Kadet.

What kind of flying do you want to do this time around?

Wiz

D King
09-28-2005, 11:12 AM
Banchee, E3d, Sig SE, GP ugly stick, ucando, The list can go on and on and on.

I think if you can figure out what kind of flying you want to do then it will be easyer to get you in the right plane.

DK

Twmaster
09-28-2005, 04:40 PM
Hmmm... I thought sport was what I said.

Mike Wizynajtys
09-28-2005, 05:21 PM
You sure did. In my mind the term sport as it applies to RC includes trainers, second planes, funfly planes, pattern type planes, 3D planes and even general aviation funscale planes like a Cub. Again, if you want a specific recomendation for 12 cell power system it would be helpful if you were a little more specific about what you are looking for. Otherwise, your going to get some general recomendations like the ones above.....but than maybe that's all you were looking for.

Wiz

Twmaster
09-28-2005, 06:06 PM
Point taken. It is however my definition of a 'sport' plane to be something of a jack of most trades. As in fly well, perform basic aerobatic maneuvers, etc. Perhaps I am opening the genie's bottle with my original query.

Mike Wizynajtys
09-28-2005, 07:23 PM
Well, with that in mind I'm going to recomend the E3D from Gary Wright. www.gwmp.net (http://www.gwmp.net)

It's a great flying plane for a 12 cell power system, but it may no longer be available as a kit. I think once the ARFs came out the kit was discontinued. I know DK has built the Sig SE with a small-ish power system, but I think if you use 12 round cells it will be to heavy to fly well. He's the better person to ask. I know my glow SE was fantastic! I actually have another SE kit that I plan to electrify one of these days.

There is always the Rob Smith E-Sport 10. I have the ARF, but I'm certain you can still get the plans for it. It was designe around 10 cells as the name suggests, but people fly them with up to 16 cells. I fly mine on a 4S3P lipo pack. It's a little on the pattern side of things, but it's a great flyer.....and only $69 for the ARF + $18 for shipping. http://kionapublishing.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=33&osCsid=45b32785640076682b7a3f0aea265f3f

I guess that's all the more shooting in the dark I care to do. I hope it helps you.

Wiz

jonnyjetprop
09-29-2005, 04:51 AM
Sig 4-Star 40
CG Tiger 2
Hangar 9 Twist

John

Ben
10-10-2005, 01:18 AM
I have built a few Andy Lennon designs for .40 wet - fly great! See "Crow" (MAN Aug '96) and Osprey (Model Builder June '91) @<90 and approx 110 oz respectively! Challenging builds, sharp flers! - - Ben

Twmaster
10-10-2005, 03:23 AM
I think I am going to add the Sig Four Star to my list of planes.

Thanks for the input. lots of good suggestions.

MTwallet
10-12-2005, 04:27 AM
I really liked my OK Models Seducton Freestyle, and my Thunder Tiger Spirit 3D (AKA Expo 3D)

http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14689&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=18777&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

Both came out on the light end with lipos and smallish Megas. (3lbs, and 4.25lbs respectively) Your setup will prolly be a little over the glow weight but doable.


By the way, I am almost finished with my conversion of a Sig Rascal.40, how many watts were you flying yours on and what was your AUW? I've got about 450+W on tap with an AUW of 4lbs 9.5oz so I'm looking at about 100W/pound. Should fly well with this setup. Did you have any problems with yours besides the sign seeking feature wasn't disabled?



MT

Geoff_Gino
10-12-2005, 06:35 AM
Hi Mike

Great looking plane and an excellent maiden. Good job.

Geoff

ragbag
10-15-2005, 03:44 AM
I guess since the G&G Conversion is big now I'll visit with ya'll.
Kadet Lt 25 Conversion about finished. It is listed under the Gas & Glo, if I can figure out how, I'll move it over here.

About to wrap it up and may test fly next week.

Kadet 63" wing span
Axi 2826 10
MAS 11x7
polyquest 3s2p4400
Jeti 40
Flying weight 4# 8oz

By George

2636 2637 2638

2639 2640

twostrokin1
10-16-2005, 08:45 AM
Put it in the big bee for clancy,,,,i have a lazy bee but i think your setup might be a little to much for that....I consider it a sport plane

Dereck
10-25-2005, 08:29 PM
If I had to make a choice, I'd have to come down on the side of Sig's Four Star 40.

Mine's over five years old - in the shop right now for another re-cover.

She started box-stock with a 20 cell MaxCim rig, last flew on 16 cells and a Hacker B50 w/6.7:1 clatterbox. In any config, I could take it to any wetty field and leave them with a new idea or so on what an electric can do.

Right now, she is an amalgam of what's left of the kit - the basic structure - my electrocution mods and a bunch of aerodynamic mods I got mostly from THAT Gary Wright ;). Those elevated her from a great first low winger - ideal for the guy who's gotten really bored with his aileron equipped Kadet variant and wants to learn the basics of aerobatics - to a seriously donkey-kicking low winged sports aerobatic that still handles close to trainer-like at low speed.

My Four Star would fly pretty good on 14 x 3000, but she was getting a bit porky - a new build on 12 jugs could come in under 5lb and would move a lot better than my old banger.

Like most Sig kits, it's really a great electric but for some reason, they keep drawing the glow conversion on the plan...

D

MTwallet
10-25-2005, 08:53 PM
Hi Mike

Great looking plane and an excellent maiden. Good job.

Geoff

Thanks Geoff!:)

MT

MTwallet
10-25-2005, 08:54 PM
Like most Sig kits, it's really a great electric but for some reason, they keep drawing the glow conversion on the plan...

D

I noticed that too. I wish they would stop doing that.;) :)


MT

DickCorby
10-25-2005, 09:26 PM
I am flying the Sportsman Aviation Paramount, and it pretty well fits what you are looking for. It's an ARF, and at $99.00 is a really good deal. I think it will fly very well on the setup you listed, My setup is as follows:

Sportsman Aviation Paramount 46
Motor - AXI 2826/10
Prop - APC 13/6.5E
Battery - Duralite 4S2P 5000 mAh
Receiver - FMA FS-5 Bulletproof
Servos - 4 Hitec HS-645MG High Torque Servos
Transmitter - Hitec Optic 6
ESC - Castle Creations 60Amp, BEC defeated and a 2S1P 1500-mAh pack using a FMA VR-1 Voltage regulator for Receiver power
Weight 82 oz
Static Thrust - 107 oz
Static Current Draw - 56 Amps
Watts - (Astro Whattmeter) 485
Wing Span: 50.75 Inches
Wing Area: 685 Square Inches
Wing Loading: 17.24 oz./sq.ft.
Cubic Wing Loading: 7.9 oz./cu.ft.

It has good vertical, and can perform the IMAC basic sequence with ease. Good for 12-15 minute flights on Dymond Hobbies 4S-2P 6000 MAH pack. Very stable plane, and not bad to look at in the air either.

Twmaster
10-26-2005, 12:09 AM
Dick: That sure is sweet looking and sure does seem to fit the bill.

Dereck: Glad to see you over here! Thanks for the plug on the 4 Star. I just love the quality of Sig kits too.

Darn decisions.....

Also, Dereck, where locally can I get QEFI mag? The LHS in Burtonsville no longer carries it :(

DickCorby
10-26-2005, 12:20 AM
For $99 and in the air is less than a week, it was awsome. I like building from kits, but this plane changed my mind. It would have taken me the good part of a month to build from a kit, and most kits of this type cost more anyway.

qban_flyer
10-26-2005, 02:21 AM
For $99 and in the air is less than a week, it was awsome. I like building from kits, but this plane changed my mind. It would have taken me the good part of a month to build from a kit, and most kits of this type cost more anyway.

Absolutely correct. Hard to believe something so good looking sells for under $100.

Makes one wonder why should we spend that kind of money on smaller 3D e-flyers. I just may get my $99 Twist out of its box, look it over and possibly begin to electrocute it.

They recommend a Hacker Innerunner B/L & G/B. I think an AXI Out Runner will be the way to go with it. Besides it will make for a much easier & neater conversion.

jonnyjetprop
10-26-2005, 08:17 PM
Absolutely correct. Hard to believe something so good looking sells for under $100.

Makes one wonder why should we spend that kind of money on smaller 3D e-flyers. I just may get my $99 Twist out of its box, look it over and possibly begin to electrocute it.

They recommend a Hacker Innerunner B/L & G/B. I think an AXI Out Runner will be the way to go with it. Besides it will make for a much easier & neater conversion.

Several Twists have been converted using either 4120 or 4130 motors. I chose the Astroflight 40G brushless on 6s2p TP and a 15x10 prop. I love the way it flies.

John

qban_flyer
10-26-2005, 08:44 PM
Several Twists have been converted using either 4120 or 4130 motors. I chose the Astroflight 40G brushless on 6s2p TP and a 15x10 prop. I love the way it flies.

John

Mighty fine looking conversion. Great looking plane. Plenty of room for batts. also and easy access to everything. Just ideal. Great photos!

I'll do some research on motors, then bit the bullet and go from there.

Dereck
10-27-2005, 03:16 AM
Dick: That sure is sweet looking and sure does seem to fit the bill.

Dereck: Glad to see you over here! Thanks for the plug on the 4 Star. I just love the quality of Sig kits too.

Darn decisions.....

Also, Dereck, where locally can I get QEFI mag? The LHS in Burtonsville no longer carries it :(

Sorry - wasn't ignoring you, a copydate looms :eek: If Burtonsville is your LHS, I don't honestly know of another HS anywhere around you. Hobby Hangar in Chantilly, VA has QEFI and several other brit mags, but that's a ways away - about 50 - 60 mile round trip from me here in Potomac, MD and none too fun a trip either. There's a "Hobby somethingorother" in Rockville, MD, but it has very little stock of anything and no mags at all. You might want to check the likes of Borders and Barnes & Noble - they sometimes come up with Brit titles, unlikely though it seems.

hope that helps

Dereck

Mike Wizynajtys
10-27-2005, 01:47 PM
Well, if you like Sig kits and you like the Twist conversion you see above then you'd probably be pretty happy with the Sig Somethin' Extra. The Twist is basically the same type of plane. The SE had a wonderful long top hatch for allowing you access to the battery compartment.

I have an SE kit (my 2nd one) that's been gathering dust for awhile now. I think I have just talked myself into bringing it to the top of my build list.

Cheers,

Wiz

Dereck
10-27-2005, 10:57 PM
Idly thinking some more ...

Way back when 20 cell was a bright, new concept hampered mostly by 'only' having SCR1700s, I converted a GP CAP 232, while Ann Marie Cross, then at Great Planes, did the Giles 202. Okay, the latter looks little like a scale Giles, but that's scale aerobatics for you.

Anyway, we ended up with sub-7lb models that flew pretty well. "Ended up" - Ann Marie replaced every piece of wood in her structure with hand-picked light balsa, while I propped the cowl and rudder up on my board and built an entirely different structure inside the same outline. Folk who've seen photos of my fuselage say it looks more like a 10 cent rubber model than a 700W electric aerobatic.

To some of us, this is fairly trivial building stuff ;)

Final observations - GP do great aerodynamics, but no-one there can spell 'weight' plus the CAP is really more 3D inclined and can read your mind, so don't even think about snap rolls unless you mean it, while the Giles is the better "regular " aerobatic machine. I saw her husband Mike fly his prototype CAP 232 with an OS70 fourbanger and it was somewhat eye-opening to say the least...

I published my conversion in QEFI around 1996, AM published her Giles in RCM 96 or 97. Now, I'd use 16 x GP3300 unless the wife wasn't looking, when I'd go for 5S Saphions. A lottery win could entice me into 5S lipos, but then I could afford the fire extinguisher and fireproof charging safe, plus a young hireling to carry them around :)

The final thought - a plan would have been almost as quick!

Regards

Dereck

MTwallet
10-28-2005, 12:22 AM
Sounds like you need to see this video...
http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=16174&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

And read this thread...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333410

This is the same power system I used in my Seduction Freestyle too (video of maiden in post #11) it uses a 5s1p lipo and only draws 25A. Daking did not have to replace much wood in the kit. Pretty much only replaced the ply root ribs with balsa and covered in solite if memory serves. The 5s1p lipos I use are only about $130, I have two of them and get about 10-12 minute flights each. To me, that's plenty.



MT

DickCorby
10-28-2005, 12:35 AM
I have been using AXI motors for the past 2 years, and it's the only line of motors I use. My experience with them is that the company really is conservative in what they list in the specifications. So far I have been able to push a couple of them over 50% above the specs, STATIC, and in the air they are awsome, and come down cool.

I especially like spinning larger props without the worry that a gearbox is going to fail on me.

Twmaster
11-19-2005, 06:24 PM
I'm going to build a Sig 40 size Four Star. The kit has been ordered. I just need to decide if I am going to power it with the Kontronics setup in the damaged Rascal I have or to go with the E-Flight 46 outrunner. I'd like to repair the Rascal someday but I can't help but think the power set would be better suited to the 4*.

Dereck
11-19-2005, 10:55 PM
I'm going to build a Sig 40 size Four Star. The kit has been ordered. I just need to decide if I am going to power it with the Kontronics setup in the damaged Rascal I have or to go with the E-Flight 46 outrunner. I'd like to repair the Rascal someday but I can't help but think the power set would be better suited to the 4*.

The best performance I ever got out of my 4*, regular or clipwing, was with 16 BRJ (Big Round Jugs) into a 15 x 10 prop that did a hair under 7,000 full out. I've flown it on about every prop going from 11" to 16", all pitches inclusive, and that one beat the lot.

The model doesn't actually care what is spinning the prop at all, for some odd reason ;)

Now, if I could find the time to build my 5*16 - which is barely a 4* anyway. "5*16" is basically the above with a different wing section, completely different structure, full motor cowl and cooling, fully rounded top deck and several other odds and ends. Should be fully pattern capable, but less of a PITA to haul around than E-Rotica, which is a very l-o-n-g model in the fuselage region.

D

qban_flyer
11-20-2005, 12:48 AM
I'm going to build a Sig 40 size Four Star. The kit has been ordered. I just need to decide if I am going to power it with the Kontronics setup in the damaged Rascal I have or to go with the E-Flight 46 outrunner. I'd like to repair the Rascal someday but I can't help but think the power set would be better suited to the 4*.

Having seen and having flown the particular Rascal in question, powered the way you got it from B, I would have to agree with you 100%. Its power plant would be better suited for the the Sig 4*. :)

Twmaster
11-20-2005, 01:35 AM
Excellent. I just happen to have a bunch of good GP3000 NiMHs and that 2S2P 2100 Kokam 20C pack for the juice. That Four Star should be a blast!

Dereck
11-20-2005, 06:18 PM
Excellent. I just happen to have a bunch of good GP3000 NiMHs and that 2S2P 2100 Kokam 20C pack for the juice. That Four Star should be a blast!

Get to it! I've never heard of anyone who didn't like their Four Star - any size, including several of the little known "home grown" "Four Star 20" versions. Bruce Tharpe never designed that one, but true aeromodelling ingenuity had to produce one anyways. Bruce told me he didn't mind as long as no-one tried to benefit commercially from the name, which is reasonable enough.

I have come across two modellers who really didn't like the Lazy Bee, but nary a one who disliked Bruce's all time classic.

I guess now I'll have to re-design my "5*16" again, to take Saphions!

D

Twmaster
11-21-2005, 12:27 AM
Dereck thanks for the information and encouragement. I am expecting the big brown toy truck to bring me my kit this coming week. I'll clear the build table and whip out some glue! :)

One question though. You mentioned a Hacker motor on your 4*. What gearbox and ratio were you running?

Thanks again!

Dereck
11-21-2005, 01:21 AM
Dereck thanks for the information and encouragement. I am expecting the big brown toy truck to bring me my kit this coming week. I'll clear the build table and whip out some glue! :)

One question though. You mentioned a Hacker motor on your 4*. What gearbox and ratio were you running?

Thanks again!
B50 13S, 6.7:1 - their epicyclic 'box

D

Twmaster
11-25-2005, 03:54 PM
Well my 4* kit arrived today. Wow this is typical classic Sig all the way. Everything looks really nice for having sat in an attic for 10+ years! Even came with a roll of powder blue Monocote and a bottle of Carl Goldberg medium Jet CA! (already set into a plastic bottle shaped lump of CA too! ;))

Now I have a couple of questions. As far as servos go can I get away with using lighter servos like Hitec HS-81's or should I not worry and use standard full size servos? I am trying to determine where I can save weight without sacrificing the strength and integrity of the ship. Dereck: How much trouble did you have getting your 4* to balance?

Time to clear the build table and remove the power plant from the Rascal.

:D

Dereck
11-26-2005, 12:07 AM
Well my 4* kit arrived today. Wow this is typical classic Sig all the way. Everything looks really nice for having sat in an attic for 10+ years! Even came with a roll of powder blue Monocote and a bottle of Carl Goldberg medium Jet CA! (already set into a plastic bottle shaped lump of CA too! ;))

Now I have a couple of questions. As far as servos go can I get away with using lighter servos like Hitec HS-81's or should I not worry and use standard full size servos? I am trying to determine where I can save weight without sacrificing the strength and integrity of the ship. Dereck: How much trouble did you have getting your 4* to balance?

Time to clear the build table and remove the power plant from the Rascal.

:D

Here we go - the accumulated wisdom of the Four Star 40 rolls out for a new member once again!

First off, the really good news. It balances pretty easily. The only one I've come across that had a balance issue was built with the central aileron servo and torque rods. This meant that a 14 jug pack couldn't be moved far enough aft to give a correct CG - the model was flyable, but not that much fun - so he had to use a 12 jug pack for best handling in pitch.

My hatch went from 1" aft of the firewall to just ahead of a canopy that was moved back around 3/4" - a hatch length of 11". However, I'd recomend starting the hatch from 2.5" aft of the firewall - this will stiffen up the front end better and still allow for pack access. My canopy is now 12.5" aft of the firewall where it touches the fuselage top - I sprayed it silver inside, to get out of not being able to fit a decent looking pilot figure.

Okay - call me old-fashioned, but in a decent society, anyone flying a model with a clear canopy or open cockpit with no pilot figure should be at least struck down by a thunderbolt in front of their biggest club gathering.

My hatch is little beyond the kit's top deck with a 1/16" balsa bottom to it. The bit of top fuselage aft of the firewall I made from a piece of scrap balsa - this comes easy for me, I have more balsa in my shop than most LHS run to nowadays.

Servos. Latest DW take is to use Hitec HS225 on rudder and elevator, HS85 on aileron - this is for aerobatic models of this size. However, if you have a pair of handy standards, give them the fuselage job, the model won't really mind.

I put my fus servos in the first fus bay aft of the wing, suitably modified with servo rails, somewhere to Velcro the RX to and gussets around the new hole. The wing servos are out in the wings, mounted into the ribs at the ends of the centre section sheeting. The ribs are doubled with Liteply (it does have the odd use :) ) and the new servo bay is covered in use with a 1/16" balsa hatch taped in place. Another of my Cantankerous Old Ph@#t ideas is that the last airplane to look good with external controls was the Tiger Moth and servos should therefore be kept inside. I don't care what IMAC and those idle beggars who design BARFS think.

I cut the fuselage doublers down to make a ledge over the wing aperture, this ledge runs parallel to the fuselage side top edges and is where the 1/16" Birch Ply battery tray sits.

Battery tray placement goes thus: Make up tray 1" longer than your pack. When model is covered and rigged, place tray with pack mounted centrally into the fuselage and slide around until balance is achieved. Glue tray in here. Use pack movement to fine-tune CG in flight tests.

Weight saving. Mine didn't really have any! It was my first 'big' electric and was built in a hurry to get my then-new MaxCim system airborne while I converted the GP CAP 232. In the end, the 4* was so much fun that I bought another MaxCim set for the CAP. The CAP was given away a while back, the 4* has flown the most of any of my electrics.

If you need any photos, give me a yell. I have the gear out the 4* right now, but you can see enough from my shots if that'll help. Are you going stock or clipwing? Warning! the Clipwing is just way too much fun :)

Regards

Dereck

Dereck
11-26-2005, 12:55 AM
OKay, dinner's over - turkey chilli, would you believe? First easy weight saver, after looking at my old favourite.

Aft of the wing, there's top and bottom pieces of cut-out liteply, that have little tabs sitting in matching depressions in the fuselage side's edges. Lose them, use balsa strip cut to match the mounting depressions instead. Just pull the fus sides in at the tail end and let them take up their natural curve.

Refinement - note the top deck stringers are 1/4" balsa strip. Fill the slots for these in the formers, and use 1/8" square spruce instead, making slots appropriately. THese are at least as light as the balsa they replace but more important for a sports model, they are far more tolerant of handling issues. If I did another, I'd even go so far as to use 1/8 x 1/16" spruce strip for those stringers.

Plan on running strips of 1/4 x 1/8" spruce inside the fuselage side top edges, on the inside of the fus. These will go a long way to putting the strength back into your fuselage that the open top loses. Mine run from the front edge of the hatch to just aft of the hatch opening's back edge. For good engineering practice, these strips should ideally be tapered off at their rear ends, to avoid building a 'stress riser' into the airframe.

On my first try, which was by far the best looking, I cut the fuselage sides off ahead of the firewall, and cut the doublers down to 3/8" wide tabs ahead of the firewall. The remains of the doublers got tossed, while the cut-off sides went on to star in a lovely hand-crafted box cowl around the MaxCim - which fitted into the firewall and was adjustable enough to allow the prop to closely match the kit prop position - though the latter is somewhat over-rated and it won't matter a hill of beans if your prop is an inch or so either side of the kit position.

Regards

D

Twmaster
11-26-2005, 05:20 AM
Dereck,

Thanks for the info. Much to digest. What I fear at this point is the suggestions you are making are going to be more than my thus far accumulated building skills are up to. I will be putting the servos out in the wings as I've never been fond of a single servo in a plane that large. As for the rest of the mods suggested I think some cogitating is in order. Additionally I cannot quite visualize some of your suggestions and may ask for you to forward some specific photos to help me 'get it'. So far the kit looks to be a straight forward build. The only thing I can see missing from the kit is the darn decal sheet :(

I too can only wonder how an airplane is supposed to fly without a pilot! :)

The only other question for you. What's on the dinner menu tomorrow? Turkey burgers perhaps? ;)

Thanks!

MTwallet
11-26-2005, 05:34 AM
Mike N, I have never flown a 4* before but I have done a few conversions of .40 size ships. IMHO I would stay away from HS81's if you care about this plane. To save some weight you might consider (believe it or not) GWS servos called "Park HPX". I have used them with excellent results. about as much torque and twice as fast as standard Futaba servos and only a little more weight than HS81's. AND they're only $14.88!!
http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=585

Mike

Dereck
11-26-2005, 03:05 PM
Dereck,

Thanks for the info. Much to digest. What I fear at this point is the suggestions you are making are going to be more than my thus far accumulated building skills are up to. I will be putting the servos out in the wings as I've never been fond of a single servo in a plane that large. As for the rest of the mods suggested I think some cogitating is in order. Additionally I cannot quite visualize some of your suggestions and may ask for you to forward some specific photos to help me 'get it'. So far the kit looks to be a straight forward build. The only thing I can see missing from the kit is the darn decal sheet :(

I too can only wonder how an airplane is supposed to fly without a pilot! :)

The only other question for you. What's on the dinner menu tomorrow? Turkey burgers perhaps? ;)

Thanks!

Photos will make it much easier. Right now, the fus is sitting on my downstairs office desk - wifey doesn't come down here much these days ;) However as COO/IT/coffee boy/office painter for her new company, I don't either! However, if you want photos, plonk your request up here and I'll be happy to try and help you out.

The Four Star is a pretty easy going plane to build and modify - the structure is easy to build, quite 'agricultural' in fact, and the model flies so good that no-one's ever managed to mess one up! The aerodynamic mods that were worked out by a bunch of guys down in Florida, the ones I got from Gary Wright hisself, really only change the model's character at the fun end of the envelope - roll rates, snaps, spins and so on. Basically, though pretty capable, the design is really only a 'first low winger', a follow-on to an aileron equipped Kadet type model.

The biggest irritant of the 60" wing is that the bugger won't come down easy! Get the speed too high on approach and, even at the 6lb odd my 20 cell one weighed, it will float on down the strip and off into the distance without settling down.

If it all gets too daunting, a clubmate of mine built one completely box-stock! He lashed an AF25G Cobalt into the glow engine beam mount and stuffed the nicad through his one 'conversion' - a bigger hole hacked into F2 - and held the pack in with foam rubber jammed around it. No hatch, no diddle. Durn thing flew as well as any other Four Star. He even used the kit gear, which is far too short for our usual props and spec'd for a sub-5lb model on glow, not a 6-odd pound electric.

Which reminds me - bug me for how to best to lash the UC into place. You can get a custom gear from TnT for a not too silly price for great workmanship, and better take it from me that the kit gear mount is pretty punk, especially on rough grass. www.tntlandinggear.com is their place.

I use a compo curved gear I bought in an English LHS, but if you go with 11" track, 5" height, you can clear a 15" prop. 1.5" wide at the top, tapering to 3/4" wide at the axle, from 1/8" alloy will do you fine. TnT has a downloadable order form where you write in your required dimensions, mail or fax it in and they quote you a price before you agree on having it done. I've had a couple of UC from them, service has always been good.

Regards

Dereck

Unbalanced prop
02-28-2006, 02:50 AM
Well I just found this thread and I think this post should fit in just right. I finally finished my winter project, a Sig Four*40. I made a few mods during the build. The main mod was to make the fuselage out of balsa to save weight. The Four* comes in the kit with a liteply fuselage. The other mods I made were half the wing dihedral and two aileron servos. I also put a carbon fiber main landing gear on it and made the ailerons and elevator a little larger. I wanted to keep the weight down because I wanted to fly it on 3S2P packs. I have a 56oz AUW with TP 3S2P 4200 packs. It is equipped with the following equipment. Can't wait to see how she flys.:D

Hacker A30 10XL
Hitec Electron 6 rx
CC Phoenix 45
2 HS 81 MG servos
2 HS 85 servos
APCE 12 x 8

Doug

Twmaster
02-28-2006, 03:09 AM
Oh that's sweet Doug. Less than 4 pounds too. Wow.

Sadly life has been in the way of late and I have got exactly bupkus done on any of my projects. :(

TKG
02-28-2006, 03:29 PM
Bruce Thorpe who designed the 4* kits has done all the aero improvements that Dereck taled about and calls the plane the Venture 60. Every so often he kits an E version of it. A llittle biger that you asked about , but...
www.btemodels.com

rclark
03-03-2006, 12:29 AM
A kit for 'next time' ... Don't forget the nice light SA CAP232 40E.... You'll love the build and is a very nice flyer. Dial the rates down for nice sport performance and dial up for wild performance ...

http://www.stevensaero.com/shop/product.php?productid=16479&cat=253&page=1

Here is mine...

Unbalanced prop
03-03-2006, 01:31 AM
Richard..............NICE looking Cap & pooch. What kind of power you got in the Cap and what's the dog's name?

Doug

rclark
03-03-2006, 03:45 PM
Powered by AXI2826/10 3S2P APC 13x8E prop.

Dog is a female Corgie, Ginger by name. Kennel name is Gingerveria Bun Bun :rolleyes: ... Powered and modivated by any edible piece of food :) .

N3CLI
03-03-2006, 06:14 PM
Powered by AXI2826/10 3S2P APC 13x8E prop.

Dog is a female Corgie, Ginger by name. Kennel name is Gingerveria Bun Bun :rolleyes: ... Powered and modivated by any edible piece of food :) .


What is that white stuff on ground?????:D

Have not seen that down here in Florida.

Nice Dog and plane:)
Fred AMA 68196

Dereck
03-20-2006, 08:16 PM
[quote=Unbalanced prop;48963]Well I just found this thread and I think this post should fit in just right. I finally finished my winter project, a Sig Four*40. I made a few mods during the build. The main mod was to make the fuselage out of balsa to save weight. The Four* comes in the kit with a liteply fuselage. The other mods I made were half the wing dihedral and two aileron servos. I also put a carbon fiber main landing gear on it and made the ailerons and elevator a little larger. I wanted to keep the weight down because I wanted to fly it on 3S2P packs. I have a 56oz AUW with TP 3S2P 4200 packs. It is equipped with the following equipment. Can't wait to see how she flys.:D

Hacker A30 10XL
Hitec Electron 6 rx
CC Phoenix 45
2 HS 81 MG servos
2 HS 85 servos
APCE 12 x 8

That should be fun. I've come across 4*s with down to 8 x 800AR packs, and superlight building, but it always came across as a model that needed some serious power otherwise you might as well have a Kadet. At your weight, if you find a need for further speed, you could, I imagine, drop a 4S of some description in there and really strike a small donkey by foot.

Could see your biggest problem being getting it to stop flying! Even with 20 x 2000mA sub C nicads, my 6lb-odd long wing 4* could ocassionally decide she wasn't having any of that descending business and float the entire length of the Mt Trashmore (MD) strip, and some more. That was the best part of the clipwing mod - the durn thing comes down to order!

Love your colour scheme! Red and white sometimes pales, and a thousand (or thereabouts, who's counting?) curses on see-through model aircraft. Yours is a great balance of striking and tastefull, plus you know which is yours in the pits :)
Regards

Dereck

Unbalanced prop
03-20-2006, 08:51 PM
Thanks Dereck

I still haven't got to maiden yet because of the crappy weather. Soon I hope! If she floats too much, guess I'll just get the hack saw out.;)

Doug

rclark
03-20-2006, 09:42 PM
Does look nice Doug! Forgot to comment on your nice looking 4* .

Twmaster
03-21-2006, 12:20 AM
Yes same here. Looks mahvelous!

:D

Twmaster
05-19-2006, 02:33 AM
Well my building the 4* problem has been solved. A fellow that used to fly with us was having a massive clean out and I got a very nicely built 4*40 from him. Just needs the wing covered, radio gear and power system installation as well as the final bits of assembly. I picked up a roll of matching covering material and will get busy on her this weekend. I hope to have it ready to fly for the holiday weekend. Will be powered by a Kontronik 600 brushless on a MEC SuperBox geared 3:1.

:D

Dereck
05-19-2006, 02:40 AM
Well my building the 4* problem has been solved. A fellow that used to fly with us was having a massive clean out and I got a very nicely built 4*40 from him. Just needs the wing covered, radio gear and power system installation as well as the final bits of assembly. I picked up a roll of matching covering material and will get busy on her this weekend. I hope to have it ready to fly for the holiday weekend. Will be powered by a Kontronik 600 brushless on a MEC SuperBox geared 3:1.

:D

Better get a move on - the Spring Sizzle is next weekend ;)

Which reminds me - I either go out for a crafty practice fly, or show up with my camera and act surprised when I tell folk I forgot my models :mad:

Heck, I might have a scout through the shop and see what's up for hauling along for a carboot sale...

You going to amputate the tips on that Four Star? Sounds like you're in an ideal position right now. Your drivetrain sounds good - how many firestarters/BRJs are you going to use?

D

Twmaster
05-19-2006, 03:34 AM
Looking like 16 BRJ's for now. Don't have enough Pesos for sufficient 'fire' power. ;)

Propped for 28A will give >500W.

I'm going to leave the wing alone on this one. The next plane will have loads of mods.

Twmaster
05-19-2006, 03:35 AM
Oh, one more thing. Servos. What servos will be safe to use? HS-81's or standard sized?

Dereck
05-20-2006, 01:52 AM
Oh, one more thing. Servos. What servos will be safe to use? HS-81's or standard sized?

Mine ran about 40 - 45A on WEP :D

81s should be fine on the ailerons, but I'd use 225s or some such mini on the big wagglers on the back. Mine actually had FMA 200s all round for much of the time, but they were older, slower movers than 225s. FWIW - I top hinge all my ailerons and elevators with either tape or film, only the rudder gets centreline hinging, 'cos they look odd with a tape hinge on one side.

Lose that steerable tailwheel on the rudder too - beats up on the rudder servo real bad. I fit one one of those cheapy steerables on the fus ahead of the rudder, couple it to the rudder with a skinny rubber band - it'll steer at taxy speeds, de-couple the rudder from the wheel if you get out of kilter. At Mt Trashmore, the only way to stop on the short tarmac is a full stall landing on the threshold, and groundloop her - have never messed up a servo with that set-up.

Once you've watched her float down the runway refusing to stop flying because you came in a MPH or two overly fast, you'll understand why the hacksaw job on the wingtips :cool:

But what the heck - it's the only model I've ever heard of that no-one didn't like - and my column even unearthed a couple of fliers who didn't like the Lazy Bee. And that's like enjoying kicking a puppy ;) Go enjoy. Am going to rebuild mine this winter, if I don't get a move on and build my "5 Star 16" design...

Regards
Dereck

Glo4U
08-25-2007, 03:42 AM
Dereck,
Would you reccomend building it with balsa instead of ply if you were scratch building instead of kit. Gloria

Dereck
08-25-2007, 04:36 PM
Dereck,
Would you reccomend building it with balsa instead of ply if you were scratch building instead of kit. Gloria

Hi Gloria
Might be able to tell you for sure after this building season! Have a set of 4* plans and canopy on route from Sig...

Intend to scratch a refined version of what's now hanging from my shop ceiling in retirement. Will 'power' it with either 14 or 16 BRJ or 6S RBRJ (Really Big Round Jugs - A123 cells :) )


The usual aerodynamic mods:
Clip wing to 53" - minus one bay each end
3/8" wider ailerons
25% larger tailplane/elevators mounted low on fuselage
30% or so larger vertical stab/rudder
big battery hatch
taller UC
Fus servos + RX just aft of the wing - servos on the inside too!

Perhaps a deeper fuselage, to enhance KE

Plus:
D Box wing frame, section as yet undecided. 1/4 x 1/8 Spruce mainspars, 3/32" ribs, 1/16" D box and TE cap sheeting, capstripped ribs, two aileron servos inside wing section.

Stripwood fuselage from 1/8 x 1/4 spruce longerons, ditto balsa uprights / diagonals, minimal 1/8 sheet balsa to hold big bits (wing, motor, UC). I/64" minimal ply doublers so as the heavy bits are hanging off plywood, not balsa.

Stab - built up from 1/4 x 1/2 and 1/4 sq diagonals, verticals from sheet, though maybe a strip balsa rudder.

Real quick version from kit - copy fus sides in 1/8" balsa, use the Liteply doublers, but cut down some to minimally support firewall, UC, wing mount and battery tray. Sub liteply fus top and bottom pieces for strip balsa cross members. Apply aerodynamic mods - makes it more fun to play with, does't degrade low speed handling any I noticed.

Collectively, we must have written a book on this model!

Regards

Dereck

haze_b
08-27-2007, 09:27 PM
For a "jack of all trades" sport plane, the H9 Pulse XT is a good choice.
I love mine :Q

Dereck
09-15-2007, 12:31 AM
I should have built this when I first thought about it!