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View Full Version : Kyosho Soarus 1600 ???


donjiskra
01-10-2007, 05:31 PM
Anyone familiar with this beautiful v-tailed, aileron version?

OzSloper
01-26-2007, 09:51 PM
Hi donjiskra,
I have one of these ships still in the box. Have not had a chance to put it together yet. There seems to be a lack of discussion on any forum for this bird for some reason. I have not found any really useful information yet about its performance or modifications or anything much else about it yet.

Have you built and/or flown yours yet? I plan on going brushless right from the start on mine.
cheers,
JB

donjiskra
01-26-2007, 10:24 PM
JB, Thanks for your reply!
Waiting for my LHS to get delivery. Expected next week.
I plan on using the SK400XT outrunner brushless motor, 1320 TP 3s lipo, a Graupner 8x4.5" folding prop and a Berg 7 channel (P) receiver, utilizing flaps.

You're right I haven't found much on the internet, that's why I started this posting. Hopefully we will get others soon.
It's a beautiful bird and can't wait to start. All the pieces are waiting.

Here's the E-calc data to give an idea waht to expect with my set-up.
Keep us posted on your progress.
Don

OzSloper
01-26-2007, 10:52 PM
Excellent data Don. I like the look of that program.
I will be using the computer radio so I can dial in some flaperon/spoileron to help bring her home as that bird looks pretty slippery. Not sure yet as too which brushless I will use as I am trying to find out what motor will fit in the ehawk and then hopefully the same one will fit in the soarus.
I have had the instructions on the bed side table for a month now and I think I have read them at least a dozen times! Looking forward to starting the assembly but I am not going to until I resolve the motor thing.
I am going to check right now on the web as to the availability of that brushless you mentioned. I bet I will be unable to get one here in Australia.
cheers,
JB

donjiskra
01-27-2007, 12:34 AM
OzSloper,
Thanks!
This sure is a neat way to help each other out, isn't it!!!!!
The SK400XT motor is available from: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless-skatty.htm and it's a real bargain. shiiping couldn't cost that much to you if you can't find a local source.
They state it's good for models up to 16 ounces, which is really under rated from my experience and other postings.

There is an excellent 4 page review of the Soarus 1600 in the December 2006 issue of "Quiet Flyer" magazine. The writer used the supplied Mabuchi 380 motor, 6x3 folding prop and an 8 cell 800mah NiMH battery.
When I plugged that information into E-calc I was stunned at the inadequate performance, hence my decision to go with the SK400, which works really great with my 26 ounce Hacker "Sky Arrow" and a 1500mah 3s Lipo.

Also, check out this thread: http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5668

Keep us posted,
Don

OzSloper
02-08-2007, 11:01 AM
Howdy Don,
Any more news on your project yet? Did the LHS get one in for you? Even though I have had mine for ages, you will probably have yours airborne before me. I am having real trouble getting any time at all in the shed to build at the moment. My Minister of War and Finance has me pretty busy at the moment.:rolleyes:

donjiskra
02-08-2007, 09:29 PM
Ozsloper,
Yes, I picked it up two days ago and am very impressed.
The SK400 motor will fit very nicely but the motor shaft diameter is slightly larger, so I'll need to drill out the prop adapter slightly. Also the Graupner 7.5x4.0 folding Cam prop blades are slightly thicker so I'll need to file down to fit. Slight problems but easily resolved. The supplied 6x3 prop only provides 19 watts/lb compared to 47 of the Graupner 7.5x4.0.

The diameter of the SK400 fits nicely and will mount to the Kyosho firewall nicely. My 1350 and 1500 lipos also fit without problem.

Now that I finished the E-Flite J3 Cub I can sart on the Soarus. Programming the flaps and ailerons for the Cub with the JR XP642 was a new challenge but now I understand how to mix the channels.

I'll keep updating the post asI progress.

Link to E-Calc: http://www.slkelectronics.com/ecalc/index.htm
and Hobby Lobby: www.hobby-lobby.com (http://www.hobby-lobby.com) for the SK400 motor if you can't find one "down there"

Regards,
Don

donjiskra
02-09-2007, 08:30 PM
OzSloper,
Proceeded with the Graupner Cam folding prop install. The Graupner blades are 3mm thick at the adapter end, so I had to file off 1mm for the blades to fit. Also had to drill out the 2mm hole for the prop shaft to a 1/8" (3mm).
The SK400XT motor can't be mounted to the firewall unless it's reversed.

So I plan to install a GWS 2208-18T motor, which I have, It also fits nicely into the fuselage.

It can provide 46 watts/lb at 6.5 amps with the Graupner Cam which is identical to the SK400XT.

I would suggest you look at the GWS motor instwead of the SK400XT because of this mounting problem. It costs round $20 US and I suspect you could easily find one there.

Don


Don

donjiskra
02-09-2007, 11:04 PM
OzSloper,
Latest update:
The GWS motor wires exit the front of bell housing which presents a mounting problem.

I'm going to go back to the SK400XT and position the shaft through the end bell so I can mount the motor to the firewall.

I found this excellent tip in a post from "CORSAIRJOCK" on Jan 2006.

Don

OzSloper
02-09-2007, 11:34 PM
Howdy Don,
Great news that you got your Soarus. And I'm glad you found that good advice on the motor. You are making me want to get mine out of the cupboard and get started on it.
I have a Mega 16/15/3 still in the box and I am going to try and see if it fits in the fuse today.
Sure is motivational knowing that someone else out there is going through the build. I'll keep you posted of my progress also.
cheers,
Oz

donjiskra
02-11-2007, 10:06 PM
OzSloper,
Made great progress today.
I've decided to use the SK400XT. Pushed the motor through so I could mount it to the firewall.
Here's a bit of advice for you.
I made the second (inner) firewall 2mm less diameter, then epoxied them together. I did this so the inner firewall would fit INSIDE the fuselage and allow for a more secure mounting, when it is epoxied in place. I had to cut a notch in the front fuse bottom so the motor wires could pass through.
Next step to install the motor connectors for the ESC leads, then epoxy the firewall to the fuse.
Don

donm
02-16-2007, 02:24 PM
Hi guys, I am building a sourus as well. I was wondering what you think of this motor: Multiplex 480-6G with the 3.3:1 gear box http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJCK6&P=7

It should be able to spin a 10X8 prop for 29.6 oz of thrust at 9.9 amps. With a 12X8 it comes out to 41.9 oz of thurst at 16.2 amps.

Is this motor too heavy? Is it overkill?

I'm really confused about selecting a motor for this plane!

:confused:

donjiskra
02-16-2007, 06:06 PM
Donm,
You won't need a gear drive with a brushless motor.
Gear drives are needed for brushed motors to swing a large prop.
The motor you are looking at can be ordered without the gear drive:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJCL1&P=0
However it's diameter 30mm, is too wide to fit inside the Soarus, try and find a brushless motor that's around 25 to 28mm wide.
An AXI 2208 will work great.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/brushless-axi2208.htm
I use this motor in my 26 ounce float plane pictured in my avatar, great power!!
See the attached E-calc data chart below. Note the Watts/lb figure, that's what determines performance.
Good luck,
Don

donm
02-16-2007, 07:54 PM
Thanks for the reply, that AXI 2208 is actually 33.2mm wide (including the wires) according to the diagram at Hobby Lobby.

My first impulse was to put an eflite park 450 outrunner (have that on another model), but it is also too large when you consider that the wires have to run beside the spinning bell inside the fuse.

Then I cosidered using this cermark inrunner: http://www.cermark.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=C&Product_Code=CEM-480BL-3

But, I it pulls more amps than I would like.

Arg!

donjiskra
02-16-2007, 11:02 PM
Donm,
The actual diameter of the AXI motor is slightly over 27mm.
Yes the wires are larger but all you need to do is cut a notch in the bottom of the fuselage to allow for the wire to enter and clear the motor housing.
If you aren't happy doing that then you could look for a 22mm wide motor. such as:
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/littlescreamers.htm

The motor you suggested is an in-runner. In-runners are not as powerful as an outrunner and require a gear drive.

Your concern for watts should be determined by the size of your ESC (Electronic Speed Control).

Hope this helps?
Don

OzSloper
02-18-2007, 06:06 AM
Howdy Don,
How did the motor fit? Hope it went well. You must be neally ready for test flying. Mine is still in its box. I have just added an e-hawk to the collection and I was presented with a Multiplex Easy electric a little while ago. 3 great sailplanes to put together and so little time.
I finally have my workbench clear (just finished a slope soarer) so now is the time to decide. I'm leaning toward the Soarus with the Mega 16/15/3 but I have not committed to it yet. It's kind of nice having nothing on the bench for a change. If your build keeps going well though, I just may be tempted to get cracking on mine.
cheers,
JB

OzSloper
02-18-2007, 06:08 AM
Howdy Donm,
Welcome to this thread. Keep us informed of your progress as there is very little about the Soarus anywhere on the entire Internet.
cheers,
JB

olmod
02-18-2007, 01:20 PM
Dont know if you guys are interested in a good quality motor kit or not but this wound correctly would be perfect imho
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6886331&postcount=276

donjiskra
02-18-2007, 01:26 PM
OzSloper,
The motor fits well, I had to make a notch in the front bottom, behind the firewall, to allow for the motor wires to pass through.
I'm using the SK400XT which necessitated the reversal of the motor to mount to the firewall. In order to do this I had to remove the circlip near the bell housing, and push the shaft to the other end, then reverse the motor leads to the ESC in order for the motor to turn in the proper direction. (Clockwise looking forward from the aft of the Soarus).
The motor clears the wires and rotates without touching. A larger diameter motor would be a problem. Your Mega motor has a diameter of 16mm so that will not be a problem. I've entered it into the Ecalc program and am amazed at the outstanding 159 watts/lb performance with a 3 cell lipo direct drive (no gear box), and with the 6x3 prop it draws 26.4 amps. Becareful using a larger prop, it might overload your ESC. What amp size are you going to use?
I would advise using a 2 cell lipo which will be more reasonable and produce 69 watts/lb at only 15.2 amps at 11, 160 rpm. Do not use a larger prop without a gear drive!!!!!!

I did not install Part H, the battery support tray, because without it, there is more fore & aft room for adjusting the balance CG.

The firewall is made up of the two supplied plywood pieces. I made the inner piece two millimeters less diameter so that it can be epoxied to the inner fuselage and the outer piece fit flush against the front of the fuselage. This makes for a more secure mounting of the firewall.
Regards,
Don

donm
02-21-2007, 12:24 AM
I have a new motor combination that may work well. The multiplex BL-4008D + 3.3:1 gearbox, with a 10X8 prop. The motor weighs 74 grams and the gearbox weighs 46 grams, so there is a slight weight penalty.

What do you think?


Motor Calculated:
Motor Amps: 16.761
V to motor: 9.74
Motor RPM: 23589
Watts In : 163.29
Watts Out: 137.67
Efficiency: 84.3%

Prop Calculated:
Prop Eff Diameter: 10
Prop RPM: 7148
Prop Static Thrust oz: 40
Prop In-flight Thrust oz: 20.6
Prop Pitchspeed: 54.2 mph

donjiskra
02-21-2007, 12:43 PM
Donm,
Ecalc doesn't list the Multiplex motor you mentioned, so I can't provide a performance chart for you.
If it is a brushless motor is it an inrunner and that's why you are using a gear drive?
Perhaps others can reply?
Don

donm
02-21-2007, 02:34 PM
Hi Don, yes it is a brushless inrunner. The specs are here on the multiplex web site:

http://www.multiplexusa.com/motors/Brushless%20Motor/400/400_SFS.htm

They also have an online calculator here: http://brantuas.com/ezcalc/multiplexcalc.asp

Have you completed yours yet? I am done with the main airframe pieces. It was kind of stressful putting on the tail and trying to ensure that it is aligned.

What kind of servos are receiver are you using?

donjiskra
02-22-2007, 01:43 PM
Donm,
I checked the multiplex site and found the motor you plan to use.
With a 28mm diameter it will fit inside but I couldn't find the gearbox diameter. You better check this out.
I'm amazed at the 250 watts output, and the high rpm with the 3.3:1 gearbox. This maybe too much power for the Soarus?

I have been progressing quickly, still working on the servo tray install.
Will not use the battery tray, since it's non-use will allow for positioning the battery fore & aft for better CG location. The tray wont allow this.
I haven't gotten to the wings and tail feather assembly yet.

I will use 4 E-sky servos from Hobby-Lobby (cost factor). I'll use two in back for rudder-vator operation. Using only one with a "Y" cable will work but I want to try full control and also will use flaps on the wings, which requires individual seros also.

You will probably finish before me, so keep posting your progress.

Regards,
Don

donm
02-22-2007, 03:13 PM
Hi Don, the gearbox diameter is 22mm according to the Tower website so it should fit. The plane may well be overpowered with this setup, but I can always use throttle sparingly or even go with a 2 cell pack instead of a 3 cell.

NE Sailplanes recomments a similar setup for many of their planes with the same wingspan, so I'm using that as a guide. I actually ordered the motor and gearbox from NE Sailplanes, but when I called to confirm I got a message saying they were gone to some show in NY until Feb 27th? :confused:

So I guess it will be a while until I get my stuff...

I'm planning on using HS-55s in the wing and HS-81s in the fuse. I'm hoping the HS-81s fit because I already have those and this project is getting expensive!:)

donjiskra
02-22-2007, 04:44 PM
Good!!!
Sounds like you're on track.
Best wishes.
Don

OzSloper
02-27-2007, 09:28 AM
Howdy Don,
Just wondering if you have her Airborne yet? My Soarus is still on the shelf in the box. Just collected an EasyStar that has jumped the queue and put the Soarus down to 2nd place for building. Not that the Easy Star will take long to assemble.
cheers,
JB

donjiskra
02-27-2007, 01:10 PM
Making progress but will be awhile before maiden flight takes place.
Epoxied the firewall in place, waiting for the 24" servo extension wires to come, then install the aileron servos, (I'll be using two channels in order to have flaps) Next step drilling the two holes for the wing blind nuts then epoxy the servo tray in position. Not using the battery tray will allow for CG positioning the 3s 1500 lipo battery.
Looking forward then to wing install and the V-tail install.
Taking my time, spring weather hasn't arrived yet.
Don

donm
03-13-2007, 02:00 AM
Hey guys, I actually maidened my Sourus this weekend.

I ended up with a Hyperion G2220-14 motor, 10X6 prop, and a ThunderPower 1320 3S battery. All up weight is exactly 24 ounces.

This motor is designed for sailplanes and has a tapered aluminum spacer to make room for the wires. I got it from AlleRC for $65. They seem to be out of stock right now, but you can see the details here:

http://wiredrc.com.au/shop/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=89

With a 10X6 prop it draws 15 amps and produces 170 watts.

The plane flew great, it really floats! With that motor it climbs very well at half throttle and at full throttle it will easily go vertical until you turn it arround.

I also have 2 servos for the V tail (for yaw and pitch control) and spoilerons on the wings. The spoilers came in really handy when landing.

I flew it 4 times on Sunday. The longest flight was 25 minutes, using the motor sparingly. When I landed the battery still read 11 volts, so I think I could easily fly for 30 minutes.

I'll post some pictures soon.

donjiskra
03-14-2007, 01:01 AM
Donm,
Great report with that motor. Glad it worked out for you!!!
Sounds like it's a neat flyer and I'm looking forward to completion.
Mine will be set up like yours with flaperons and twin servos on the V-tail.
I'm using the SK400XT motor with an 8x4.5 folder, a 3s 1500mah lipo and the wattmeter tell me it's drawing 8.8 amps at 98 watts and putting out 81 watts/lb. That's not as "hot" as your combination, but I'm happy with those figures for now. If I need to change I'll certainly switch over to your set-up.
At the moment I'm installing the wing servos. Did you epoxy your wing halves together? No mention of doing that in the manual, perhaps it's not needed or is that an unintended omission?
Thanks again for the update. I'm impressed!!!!!!!
Don

RogerNZ
07-03-2007, 11:39 AM
How is the soarus going now? I read another post on this forum from early 2006 about a guy who had a problem with putting a brushless into one of these with the Fuselage just ahead of the wings. The local model shop has got one in at a good price (standard motor I think). Will be buying it as it looks fantastic and will try it standard first as it will be my first powered machine - I've flown slope and handlaunch for years. Will however go for a lipoly battery!

donm
07-03-2007, 03:02 PM
Hi Roger, I never flew mine with the stock motor. There was a review in one of the major magazines (Quiet Flyer I think), where they flew it with the stock setup. As I remember, the author stated that it flew well.

I have flown mine quite a bit now. I would estimate about 20 flights. It glides really well and though I am a novice sailplane pilot I have managed to catch a few thermals.

I would recommend the 2 servo V tail setup for pitch and yaw as well as spoilerons, if your radio equipment allows. I have this setup on mine and it really helps while landing.

RogerNZ
07-03-2007, 09:26 PM
I have a non-computer 6 channel Hitech set, capable of V tail mixing, but not Crow braking (Spoilerons, Flaperons which ever you call them.) I can however achieve this by using a plug-in mixer for a flying wing. I simply mix together the aileron and 5th channel inputs, only problem is I would have to manually ballance the elevator controls on the way down. I will have a word to a friend of mine, it should even be possible to rig this also.

donm
07-03-2007, 09:55 PM
Hey, yep I don't have mixing for the elevators with the spoilers deployed. It's not that big of a deal, just have to input some down elevator.

One note though, you want spoilerons not flaperons. Spoilerons deploy up flaperons deploy down. I have heard that putting flaperons that far out on wing will induce tip stalls. The spoilerons reduce the lift of the wing at the outboard secton, which will reduce lift and should also reduce the chances of a tip stall.

RogerNZ
07-03-2007, 10:11 PM
Also reduces chance of damage on landing too!

RogerNZ
07-06-2007, 11:16 AM
FYI: Have just seen on a Kyosho website a kit listed as No. 10103, Soarus 1600 BLS Aileron Version - they are releasing an updated version fitted with a factory brushless motor and updated wing design.

donm
07-23-2007, 09:44 PM
Hey, I mounted a CVS camera to my Soarus this weekend. It worked out pretty good for a first attempt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YD8WQ12sTKo

RogerNZ
07-24-2007, 02:24 AM
Very cool! You want to watch those power lines and the substation - don't want to crash & burn on video eh! (Frequency spikes etc). Does the camera mount on top of the plane and transmit to a recorder?, etc - do you mind showing us how to etc

donm
07-30-2007, 10:55 PM
Ha, yes those powere lines and substation look closer than they actually are. I'm posting another video today from the local RC club where I normally fly.

I will take some pictures of my setup the next time I am at the field. However if you just google 'CVS Camcorder' you will find out all about it.

I mounted my camera on top of the wing center section. It is just rubber banded on, so I can take it off for normal flying.

RogerNZ
09-04-2007, 02:04 AM
Have just got myself one of these, second hand but only flown a few times so fairly good condition. I'm going to run it up factory to start off with until I'm used to it. I've flown slope and hand launch for years, but this will be my first foray into electric sailplanes - I'm hoping it won't be too different from my handlaunch other than no winch needed for high launches. Have got a Kontronics Easy 3000 speed controller and planing on using a 3Cell Lipoly battery, not sure of the voltage or discharge rate yet. Factory motor is a 380/400 if I'm not mistaken - not sure what the factory prop is, but it hardly looks big enough! Still a few weeks away from flying yet while I wait for the weather to settle down and finish off the last few bits of assembly.

scubabri
10-17-2007, 07:18 AM
Does anyone know where I can find one of these? Kyosho USA says they are no longer in production.

RogerNZ
10-17-2007, 08:24 PM
I'm in New Zealand and I just typed the model name in a google search and found several online shops listing them for sale over in the States still. Also there was a new brushless version released recently, has a "BLS" suffix on the end of the model name. I'm still waiting for the weather to come right here to test fly mine, and I have to get a new battery as the lipoly has already blown a cell! I'm going back to NiMH, much more reliable! Currently are getting 4 seasons in one day at the moment, cold in the morning, sunny and warm by mid morning, Rain and thunder storms in the afternoon (and some snow further south) and all the time blustery wind!) And this is spring!

scubabri
10-17-2007, 08:28 PM
The few places I checked where all out of stock, and I've not been able to find the BLS.

I'm in New Zealand and I just typed the model name in a google search and found several online shops listing them for sale over in the States still. Also there was a new brushless version released recently, has a "BLS" suffix on the end of the model name. I'm still waiting for the weather to come right here to test fly mine, and I have to get a new battery as the lipoly has already blown a cell! I'm going back to NiMH, much more reliable! Currently are getting 4 seasons in one day at the moment, cold in the morning, sunny and warm by mid morning, Rain and thunder storms in the afternoon (and some snow further south) and all the time blustery wind!) And this is spring!