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Mitch
01-19-2007, 08:05 PM
Hi. Well, I finally "took the plunge" and ordered an electric sailplane (my first RC plane). Based largely upon all the positive comments about the MP Easy Glider electric RR as being a good choice for beginners, in this forum and elsewhere, I ordered one from Tower hobbies. But after reading the instruction manual, I am confused. Tower hobbies claimed that all you needed was a four-channel radio, battery, charger, and glue (see the link here: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=lxmyl0&FVPROFIL=++). I have a four-channel Airtronics Vanguard radio that I assumed (naively, I guess) I could use. But when I read the instructions, I was surprised to find that apparently I need either a Y-harness (to combine the ailerons) or a computer radio that can combine the rudder and ailerons. Am I missing something, or is that correct? I guess I assumed that the product would include a Y-harness, if that was necessary, since Tower hobbies didn't list one as being required, or even list one as being an optional accessory. Apparently, however, it is not as simple as buying a Y-harness; the instructions make a rather vague statement that if a Y-harness is used then you have to extend the servo push rods, or something (I don't have the instructions with me at the moment).

Anyway, the "bottom line" appears to be that I can either return the Easy Glider and order a plane without ailerons or I can buy a more sophisticated radio with mixer functions, and combine the rudder and ailerons. I just wanted to make sure I'm not missing something. Any advice about how to set up an Easy Glider will be appreciated. Sorry if I sound like a have an "attitude" at the moment, but I'm feeling either disappointed in the product or else misled by Tower. Thanks.

Sparky Paul
01-19-2007, 10:00 PM
There's no requirement to couple the rudder to the aileron on the Easy Glider.
It flies fine aileron alone.
You can add rudder as you wish.
Since this is your first, keep it simple.
You do need the Y-harness to join the two aileron servos to the aileron channel.
You will also two extension cables to get to each aileron servo, from the y-harness.
On my, I found I had to use the heaviest battery I had that would fit in the restricted space for it. This is the 7 cell 1000 mah Nimh used in the Fire Bird ARF.
It provides more than enough time.
The basic plane doesn't have enough spaces prepared for some of the equipment
On construction.. put each servo in place, connected to its pushrod in the fuselage halves.
Join the halves (without glue).. to see what fits, and where you need to cut space for the other electronic parts.. receiver, battery, speed control.

Mitch
01-20-2007, 02:56 PM
There's no requirement to couple the rudder to the aileron on the Easy Glider.
It flies fine aileron alone.
You can add rudder as you wish.
Since this is your first, keep it simple.
You do need the Y-harness to join the two aileron servos to the aileron channel.
You will also two extension cables to get to each aileron servo, from the y-harness.
On my, I found I had to use the heaviest battery I had that would fit in the restricted space for it. This is the 7 cell 1000 mah Nimh used in the Fire Bird ARF.
It provides more than enough time.
The basic plane doesn't have enough spaces prepared for some of the equipment
On construction.. put each servo in place, connected to its pushrod in the fuselage halves.
Join the halves (without glue).. to see what fits, and where you need to cut space for the other electronic parts.. receiver, battery, speed control.


Quoting the Easy Glider RR instruction manual (if a Y-harness is used, page 13):

"Caution: Electronic aileron differential is not possible with this arrangement; differential must therefore be set mechanically: remove the servo output lever from each aileron servo and reposition them offset forward by two splines. You will need to remove the servos from the wing for this. Slightly longer control surface pushrods are now required."

What are "splines"? If one removes the aileron servos from an Easy Glider, is it necessary to glue them back in, or something? When it says "Slightly longer control surface pushrods are now required", does that mean existing parts are adjusted somehow, or that I would have to buy new pushrods? Figure 22 of the manual refers to use of a Y-harness, and shows a "1" and a "2" position of a servo arm. Is this meant to suggest that the existing control rod is to be adjusted to increase servo movement as indicated, and that no new parts are needed? Thanks for your help.

Sparky Paul
01-20-2007, 04:21 PM
Differential refers to having one aileron move up more than the one on the opposite side moves down.
The adjustment to the servo arm position on the servo accomplishes this.
Ths "splines" are the serrations on the servo output drive axle that engage similar splines inside the servo arm. These are what keeps the arm from slipping on the servo arm.
Differential is a nice feature to have on a long-spanned airplane, but not essential for learning how to fly. It corrects a slight aerodynamic situation you most likely won't notice until you get some flight time.
And, as both aileron cables are accessible, the y-harness can be removed and each aileron controlled by its own channel in the receiver, which can be programmed to give the electronic differential mentioned.
I didn't bother with it.
Pushrods are easily made from wire available at the LHS.

Mitch
01-20-2007, 04:47 PM
Sparky:

I'm afraid I'm not quite following you. Are you saying that the plane can be flown (at least at a beginner level) by simply connecting the aileron servos with a Y-harness and not doing anything to the pushrods/splines at all?

Sparky Paul
01-20-2007, 05:15 PM
Yes.
Nothing fancy at all, two servos, one y-harness.
Finessing the system comes later.

kaindub
01-20-2007, 08:16 PM
Hi Mich
welcome to the world of RC.
Any person can build an RC glider and fly it. It's no big deal.
However as with any endeavour there are the tricks of the trade.
If you have never built a plane before (CL, free flight etc) then you have to go through the learning experience.
That learning experience will take a long time if you do it just on this forum.

I'm assuming that you bought the plane mail order from Tower? If not and they are close by then go back to the store and ask them to help you. If Tower is too far away then get acquainted with your local model store. You'll want to make the acquaintance of these guys because you are going to be in there a lot, particularly in your learning phases.
Secondly, find out where your local model club is. Even if you don't want to join the club now, go down there and speak to the local flyers. I'm sure that you can find someone who will be helpful enough to answer your questions and even to check over your handiwork.

Going it alone in this hobby is possible and many people have done it. But it is a lot easier and less frustrating to get some local help.

TassieDevil
01-20-2007, 09:07 PM
Hi Mitch,

If I can add a little, for clarification...

The differential that is being discussed is merely the ability for the ailerons on your model to have more range of movement upwards than down (as opposed to being equal movement in both directions, like the elevator). The idea is that when your model banks to the left (for example), the outboard (right) aileron goes down and the inboard (left) aileron goes up. Effectively, the camber of the outboard wing has now increased, and thus so does the lift created by that wing, hence the model will start to roll to the left.

Now because your ailerons always move in opposite directions, this means the inboard aileron has now moved upwards, so it's decreasing the camber on it's wing. That wing loses a little lift, aiding the roll to the left.

With some aileron differential (the ailerons being set up to have more upward movement than down), the drag on the inboard aileron is more than on the outboard aileron, and this slows the inboard wing down relative to the outboard wing (it's actually creating what's called secondary yaw in the direction of the turn). Essentially, as Sparky said, for models with high-aspect ratio wings (like most sailplanes) this helps the aircraft turn in the direction of the roll.

The issue you've been discussing is how to achieve this differential. There's usually 2 methods for doing so. One is done from the transmitter (if you've got a computer radio that has this function) and the other is mechanical, which is what the instructions are talking about when they mention changing the length of the aileron pushrods and moving the control arm on the servos.

As you're a beginner, I wouldn't worry too much about it at this stage. It's not at all necessary for the model to fly properly. You're not missing out on anything, and it's something U can change at a later date if U so desire (it's pretty easy once U understand the concepts..) :)

Just remember that all your control surfaces have mechanical linkages to the servos that move them, and as such, changing the way these linkages are set up will often change the way the control surface moves. When U think about it, control linkages are often all about fulcrums (pivot points), circular motion and geometry.

I hope this helps, but feel free to keep asking questions if you're not sure about anything.

Good luck with your project, and happy soaring !

Sparky Paul
01-21-2007, 12:23 AM
Couple pictures of mechanical differential..
The servo is electrically neutralized, all trims set to zero.
The arm is installed off perpendicular... towards the front, the surface moves less in that direction, which for a bottom-mounted servo provides differential in the proper direction.

FoamCrusher
01-28-2007, 05:31 PM
Mitch:

One additional thing to consider if you are trying to decide between the servos each on an individual channel versus going with the Y-harness is the ability with individual aileron servos to make both move up at the same time to act as spoilers. You need to have a computer radio to do this, and that function is on a separate switch or slider. You set the up movement of the spoiler function to be about 85% of the full aileron movement so you still retain some roll control so you can still turn the plane. Ailerons used this way are termed "spoilerons".

With both ailerons moving up, the forces are the same on both the left and right wing panels but the air flow over the wings is disrupted killing the lift and increasing drag. The net result is that the plane slows, goes a little nose down, and sinks at a much faster rate at about the same air speed.

Why do this? If you get caught in a thermal and want to get out before the plane gets lifted out of sight (yes, that can and does happen) or since the EZG has such a low sink rate that it can be difficult to land if you have a field with a limited approach, or even landing it just where you want it. Trying to land by just dropping the nose without killing the lift increases the planes's airspeed making for a hard landing.

With a good computer Tx, you can also mix in a little up elevator to compensate for the nose dropping as the ailerons both go up, so the plane continues to remain in level flight and just slows and sinks. Landings are sooooooo much easier this way. With a little practice you can drop it right at your feet, or once you get real good, you can hand catch it!

Like full ailerons, spoilerons are not necessary to have in order to fly the plane, but like power steering and an automatic transmission on a car, it makes it easier to drive.

FC

Mitch
02-06-2007, 06:37 PM
Thanks, all of you, for your help. I have a few more questions, if you will bear with me. Unfortunately, the people at the local hobby store don't seem to know (or care) much about RC airplanes. I'm trying to figure out how to connect the electrical components of my Easy Glider.

1. The plane (Easy Glider electric RR) comes with a speed controller ("Multiplex X-16") that is connected by a black wire and a red wire to a white, polarized, plastic male connector. Is this called a Koyosho connector? The battery I have is the one Tower Hobbies recommended for this plane (see here: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=lxgbm3&FVPROFIL=++&search=Go). The connector on this battery is a "Great Planes electrify male 2-pin red" connector. I have some corresponding female 2-pin red connectors, since Tower Hobbies said I would need some. My question: How do I connect the battery to the speed controller? Do I need to buy a Dura Trax connector (see here: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD171&P=M), solder its ends to the ends of the female 2-pin red connector, and place this combination between the male connector of the battery and the white connector of the speed controller?

2. Assuming the answer to the question above is "yes", then all I have to do after that (with respect to connecting electrical components) is to plug the black three-wire lead from the speed controller into the "throttle" slot on the receiver and plug the servo leads into their respective slots on the receiver (using a Y-harness for the aileron servos)?

EDIT: Or, on second thought, I guess I need to include the switch-harness, somehow. How does this work, with a battery-elimination circuit, which eliminates the receiver battery? Do I plug the Z-connector coming from the speed controller into the switch harness, or into the "battery" slot of the receiver, or into the throttle slot? Does the male lead from the battery go into the switch harness, which is somehow adapted into a female Koyoso, which connects to the motor?

3. I also bought a battery charger (Hobbico Accu-Cycle Elite Battery Cycler (see here: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=++&FVSEARCH=lxeyd4&FVPROFIL=++&search=Go)). How do I connect the battery to this charger? Do I need to solder another female 2-pin connector to banana plugs (such as these: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXL362&P=ML), and insert those into the output holes on the charger?

4. I have an old (circa 1991) Airtronics Vanguard 4-channel FM (channel 16) radio and receiver I had hoped to use. These apparently use "Sanwa" connectors (I think they are called), and apparently Airtronics, and the servos that came with the Easy Glider, now use something called "Z-type" connectors. Is there anyway I can use this old radio and receiver? I mean, for example, are there adaptors that would permit Z connectors to be plugged into Sanwa (old Airtronics type) slots on a receiver? If not, if I buy a new receiver, can I still use the old transmitter? Or would I be better off to just buy a new radio/receiver combo, such as this: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEUM1**&P=ML)? I do hope to eventually get into more advanced electric sailplanes, with all the mixed features (flaperons and whatever). I guess if I get a new computer radio then I could mix the ailerons and rudder, and forget about the Y-harness. Or would it be better for a beginner to just get a new receiver and a Y-harness and keep it simple?

Thanks again, and in advance. I'm sorry to ask such (probably) foolish questions, but the instructions seem to skip over mundane details such as these.
Mitch

AEAJR
02-07-2007, 01:44 AM
Oh boy, you have truly run into the incompatible plug hell. I think you have it worse than anyone I have ever spoken to.

Let's see if we can get you out of connector jail.

First, battery, ESC and battery charger connectors.

I am going to suggest you toss 'em all and swithch to Deans Ultra Plug connectors.

Male/female pkg
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKX39&P=ML
Female/female
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGDU8&P=ML
Male/male
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHGL9&P=ML

I too had this problem. I have now standardized all battery connections that will run more than 5 amps on Deans Ultra. No matter what speed control or battery I get, I snip off the connector and solder on Deans.

Batteries get female. ESC and Chargers get male. Then everything works with everything.

If you want you can use the small red BEC/GWS connectors on small stuff, but those connectors are really on good to about 5 amps, then they start to heat up and waste tons of power.

Female
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGXA1&P=7
Male
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGXA2&P=7

But, unless you are going to get into micro planes, just stay with the Deans Ultras as your standard plug. This is what a LOT of Lipos use and a lot of larger battery packs.

As for your receiver. Yes, they do sell adapters
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLX67&P=ML
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLX66&P=ML

BUT, they are $3.75 each for about $15.

Is that Airtronics an AM or an FM radio. If you are in the US, I hope it is on 72 MHZ.

If it is 72 MHZ FM, you might be better off scrapping the old receiver and buying a new one. Hitecs Micro 05S should work this a Airtronics FM radio. Just get a crystal on the same channel. $30 for the receiver and $10 for the crystal. Who knows what the condition is of that receiver.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGZT0&P=ML

FoamCrusher
02-07-2007, 04:38 AM
If it is 72 MHZ FM, you might be better off scrapping the old receiver and buying a new one. Hitecs Micro 05S should work this a Airtronics FM radio. Just get a crystal on the same channel. $30 for the receiver and $10 for the crystal. Who knows what the condition is of that receiver.
AEAJr is right on with his advise. I would add that rather than buying a reciever that works with only one type of shift (some brands use + shift and the others use - shift) buy a receiver that will auto-shift to whichever shift the brand of transmitter you have is using. That way if you later decide you want that great Tx and it is a different brand with the opposite shift, you don't have to replace all your Rx's. You can also save some $$$$ and buy used Rx's without regard to which shift they use.

I have had great luck with Berg brand Rx's now made by Castle Creations. They have been almost interference free for me, where some of the other brands were less than worthless due to constant glitching.

Most internet sellers have the Bergs or you can order direct from CC. Use a Berg crystal since some of the after market crystals don't have tight enough tolerances to work well with the Bergs. You can also shorten the antenna wire with Berg's were you cannot do that with some of the other brands. Max distance will drop proportionally to the what you cut off, but some brands use the antenna as part of the tuned receiving circuit so the antenna length is critical.

FC

Up&Away
02-07-2007, 12:17 PM
and Do not Use The Tail Weight Ball!!!!!!!!!

TassieDevil
02-08-2007, 02:58 AM
As for your receiver. Yes, they do sell adapters
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLX67&P=ML
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLX66&P=ML

BUT, they are $3.75 each for about $15.

Mitch, if I could make a suggestion that'll save U a few dollars... as there's really no need to buy things such as these adaptors.

If U look at the pictures of the adaptors in the links above, you'll see that all they really do is swap the red and black wires around. The idea is to merely reverse the polarity of the power, so remember that concept in any of these modifications.

If you're careful, and take a little bit of time to study how the connectors are placed inside the usual 3-way plastic plugs that our RC equipment employs, it becomes clear U can use the tip of a hobby scalpel to gently lift the plastic tags which hold each of the 3 connectors in place, and the connector can then be removed from the rear of the plug. Simply swap the red and black connectors and you should be OK.

I used to do this quite often when I wanted to use a Sanwa receiver with HiTec (Airtronics)/Futaba servos, and it works just fine. (Note: the opposite situation could not be done because the Sanwa servo plugs were larger and of a different shape than HiTec/Futaba plugs and, as such, would usually not fit into the receiver). Do be aware that you'll need to do the same with battery connectors as well, and that U should be very careful specifically when removing the connectors wired to a battery that they do not touch during the whole process - if U do, it'll short and get very hot very quickly.. and U might even see some sparks.

Essentially, once you've made your modifications, when U look at a receiver and the plugs connecting into it, U should see all the black wires lined up together, all the red wires lined up together, and all the signal wires (can be various colours) lined up together. Don't turn anything on unless they are. And if you're using a switch harness, note that there's no need to modify the battery's connector itself - just the harness' plug that fits into the receiver (remember the idea is simply to swap the power polarity).

If U convert any of your equipment in this way, I suggest U use a small, brightly coloured household adhesive sticker to wrap around the servo/battery/switch harness leads near the plug to indicate at a glance that you've swapped/modified the connectors. And if U wish to swap them back to original condition at a later time, simply remove the sticker.

Hope this helps.

Good flying,
TassieDevil

Mitch
02-08-2007, 02:28 PM
Regarding connection of all the electrical components of the Easy Glider electric, please tell me if this is correct (using adaptors or changing plug types as necessary; I just want to know if I have the circuit figured out correctly):

1. The battery connects to one end of a switch harness.
2. The other end of the switch harness connects to the power connection of the motor.
3. The z-connector from the speed controller goes into the throttle slot on the Rx (I guess I'll get a new Rx with z-type connections).
4. The aileron servos connect through a y-harness into the aileron slot, the rudder and elevator servos go into the corresponding slots on the Rx.

Please confirm or correct this circuit. Thanks again.
Mitch

AEAJR
02-09-2007, 03:11 AM
Sounds like you have the right set-up.

This is probably in the ESC documentation and/or the Easy Glider documentation too, so you have a reference.

IDodd
04-18-2007, 10:53 PM
Advice on the tail weight ball
I've got an Easy Glider Electric that I bought as a ready for radio version. This worked out fine for me as it was easy to get to the flying stage. I've been flying the plane on a computer radio for some time now and I love it. I notice that on quite a few threads it says to NOT install the tail weight ball. Mine is somewhat tail heavy and I generally fly with about 30 to 40 grams of lead fixed to the underside of the canopy. I assume mine will have had the tail weight ball pre-installed. If I wanted to somehow remove it, exactly where would it be and what would be the best way of getting it out without destroying the plane

Up&Away
04-19-2007, 10:47 AM
You can find the ball with a magnet. Just cut out with a X-acto knife, and glue the plug back in.

Sparky Paul
04-19-2007, 04:08 PM
The ball is located just ahead of and below the leading edge of the vertical fin. I poked a pin thru the fuselage until it hit the ball.. then poked around that location to determine the size of the hole needed.. I have a photo to post for that, but the option seems to have disappeared from this forum. http://www.angelfire.com/indie/aerostuff/EasyGliderTailWeight.jpg

Crash N Burn
05-01-2007, 01:54 AM
Well, I was thinking about purchasing the Multiplex Glider but after all this chatter about it, I'm scared to death to buy it. I originally came to this post just to ask a question: What is a Horizontal Pin Reciever and what is a Vertical Pin Reciever? I need to order one for this plane. I will be using a Futaba Skysport 4 channel TX. I prefer to use GWS recievers & crytals because they are inexpesive. So if anyone could shed some light on the Horizontal VS Vertical, it would be very helpful. I'm still on the fence about making the puchase. And what's the difference between the two they have listed? Seems like the lesser priced would be the better choice, links below. Sounds like this glider leaves much to be done to get it flying. Thanks, Crash N Burn


http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMYL0&P=ML


http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMYK9&P=ML

Sparky Paul
05-01-2007, 02:15 AM
Horizontal... servos plug into the end of the receiver. Takes up less space around the receiver. Good when the fuselage is slender.
Vertical.. servos plug into the top of the receiver. Requires more space for the receiver top and servo wires.
Either will be quite happy in the Easy Glider.

Crash N Burn
05-01-2007, 02:21 AM
Thanks very much for the information on the H vs V recievers. That's what I was thinking but figured I'd ask anyway. CnB

FoamCrusher
05-01-2007, 05:01 AM
I have found that the vertical pin units are easier to use with the EZG since you have to plug in the aileron servo connectors each time you set up the plane. I have little numbered tags on the servo wires and I can just plug them in straight down without removing the Rx. Since my Tx can assign any channel to any function, I use channels 1 and 5 for the ailerons so they are at opposite sides of the Rx and are easy to get in the right place.

With a horizontal pin unit you must have it installed with velcro because each time you go to plug in the connectors you have to remove the Rx to make sure you can get at the socket to get the connector properly plugged in.

The less you handle the Rx the less chance there is for some other wiring to go wrong. I like things as simple and idiot proof as possible since Mr. Murphy is my copilot.

FC

AEAJR
05-01-2007, 10:09 AM
Well, I was thinking about purchasing the Multiplex Glider but after all this chatter about it, I'm scared to death to buy it. I originally came to this post just to ask a question: What is a Horizontal Pin Reciever and what is a Vertical Pin Reciever? I need to order one for this plane. I will be using a Futaba Skysport 4 channel TX. I prefer to use GWS recievers & crytals because they are inexpesive. So if anyone could shed some light on the Horizontal VS Vertical, it would be very helpful. I'm still on the fence about making the puchase. And what's the difference between the two they have listed? Seems like the lesser priced would be the better choice, links below. Sounds like this glider leaves much to be done to get it flying. Thanks, Crash N Burn


http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMYL0&P=ML


http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMYK9&P=ML

The difference between the two is that one has a motor and one is a pure glider. which did you want?

I agree the verticle pin receiver would be more convenient but either will work. I have a Hitec Mini 6S in mine.

As for GWS receivers, I would recommend against the 4 or 6 channel recievers as they don't have enough range for this plane.

The GWS 4 channel has a range of 500 feet.
http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/receiver/r4p.htm
The GWS 6 Channel has a range of 1000 feet.
http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/receiver/r6n.htm

If you plan to fly it as a thermal soaring glider you could easily fly it as much as 2000 feet out and 1000 feet up while riding thermals. If you are only going to slope soar with it then the 6 channel might be adequate but I would still want more range.


The GWS 8 channel at 1650 feet would be Fine for the slope and but would be barely for thermal soaring and only if you plan to keep it close.

Here are a couple of better choices in Hitec receivers.

Mini 6S This is what I use.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXKYK1&P=7

Micro 05S would also work.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXGZT0&P=ML

They have a 1 mile range.

I am curious as to what about this thread scares you. Easy Glider and Easy Glider Electric are wonderful planes. I think you will find that most people are very happy with them.