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View Full Version : Hot/Warmliner choices???? HELP! :)


wollins
01-20-2007, 01:57 PM
What's the best electric Hotliner ARF for $200 or less ... in terms of a balance of BOTH thermaling AND speed retention capabilities? Is there such a one? I've heard about ones that can thermal pretty well.

I've heard of others that can hold their energy really well and are speed demons, but what's the best one to give the best balance of BOTH capabilities?

Can one find such a bird for 200 bucks or LESS? Does such an exotic creature exist? ;)

I've been looking at quite a few ...

There's the Siren
(http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bi...p?&I=LXHPD0&P=7)

Filip 400RG
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=2796

Nike 2
http://www.espritmodel.com/index.as...ROD&ProdID=1913

The Sprinter
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=1568

The Supersonic
http://www.precisionaerobatics.com/...aspx?prodID=889

Mefisto Electro
http://www.espritmodel.com/index.as...ROD&ProdID=2842

BTW, is there a build/discussion thread on the Mefisto Electro anywhere? I even checked the ezone and all I seem to find is some other type of Mefisto? :(

All of the above are US $200 or less ... I just need to know if I missed any and if not which of the above (or any that I may have missed) have the best combination of BOTH thermaling AND speed retention capabilities.

I like the Scorpion as well (http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2841) but just wondering if it can/will thermal since its kinda smaller? :confused:

IDEALLY, I wish I could find something that:
- Has a two piece wing for transportability
- Is $200 or less
- Does not require removing its wing for battery changes
- Has a good combination of thermalling/speed/energy retention abilities
- Does not have a Carbon fiber fuse

I thinking this might be a dream to have ALL this in ONE plane! :D

Sky Sharkster
01-21-2007, 01:35 AM
Hello Woolins, Welcome to Wattflyer!
Out of the models on your list, I like the Filip RG and Nike 2 best, and believe they would meet your needs. The Sprinter is a good intro Hotliner but doesn't have the gliding ability of the Filip.
I wouldn't really consider a model with built-up wings, (Siren, Mefisto) no matter how well reinforced, a true "Hotliner". In addition to the tremendous stresses imposed by a 100 mph pull-out, which is mainly compression/extension forces on the upper/lower spars, there is the ever-present and potentially destructive danger of "flutter" which built-up film-covered wings do not resist well. A foam-core, sheeted and 'glassed wing is basically a solid or honeycomb semi-solid structure and will absorb these forces without transfering them locally.
I've never seen (or heard of, before now) the Supersonic, but I'd be sure to get the composite version, if you decide on that model.
The Scorpion looks more like a pylon racer to me, but with a 25 ounce weight, should thermal well.
Here's a link to another glider distributor;
http://www.soaringusa.com/cart/cart.php
Some of the same models, some different ones.
Whatever you choose, Good Luck!
Ron

radralph
01-21-2007, 08:35 AM
Check out the Bandit!

http://plawner.net/video/videos.html

Huge thread at rcg. Mine just got here 2 days ago. Very nice ship. Guys have gone out and tried to tear the wings off these in flight and haven't been able to. That's not exactly true of some of the others on your list. My 1st choice was a siren and then an ion. I changed my mind after reading the stories of wing failure in flight. Contact soholingo on the thread. He just did a group buy and may have one available.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=402258

wolw
01-21-2007, 09:16 PM
I went with the Bandit too after looking around for one that could take some abuse :o
I prefer to go with a model that everone has good things to say about.
Mine will ship on Monday :D

//Peter :)

Jason T
01-21-2007, 11:33 PM
I had the Filip 400RG when I got into hotliners. I think it meets your requirements. I have seen several Sirens fly and I think the Filip holds energy better.

I also flew one of the Supersonic prototypes. It thermalled great but did not retain energy as well as the Filip. I think they have made some changes to the wing to help with that. However, the fuse on the Supersonic is all carbon like the Siren but the fuse on the Supersonic is larger so there are more power system options.

wollins
01-22-2007, 01:22 AM
wolw, everyone seems to like the Bandit, however it's a little out of my price range. :o

Hmmm ... seems like I might be leaning towards the Filip ... it was actually my FIRST choice but then I started leaning towards the Scorpio. So is the Filip that you guys are talking about the same one that Nesail is calling "The NEW Filip 400 RG"? (http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=2796)

I'm a little confused by their description ... within the body of the description they start talking about Vtails. :confused:

Quote: "Just glue together the two V-tail halves and you’re ready to go."

The one that I like is the one they have in the pic (T tail) ... is this the same plane that you guys (Sky Sharkster and Jason T) are talking about? If so ... how well can this one thermal? :p

Sky Sharkster
01-22-2007, 03:23 AM
Hi Wollins, The link you provided (Filip RG T-Tail) is the one I've seen fly, and it flys very well. At one time they offered it either a "V" or "T" tail, I've never seen a "V" tailed model, though.
I believe it will glide as well or better than any of the models on your list, except possibly the Scorpion, which has a (Mfg listed) weight 9 ounces lighter.
Ron

Jason T
01-22-2007, 03:26 AM
Mine was the T-tail.

wollins
01-22-2007, 04:32 AM
Thanks guys! Jason ... since you had one maybe you can answer this. What would be the biggest outrunner that it could take, diameter wise?

kkens4
03-16-2007, 03:16 AM
My first hotliner was the Filip 400 T-tail.
Three years later, I just bought another one today.
Back then, I used a Multiplex 480 4D w/gb and the Kokam 3200 3s lipo.
Now, I'll use a Neu 1509. Probably go with a 1D and 3s lipo. the biggest one that will fit.

I have an Axi 2826/12, and I'm not too impressed with outrunners for hotliners. Just my personal taste.

The only other ship I'm interested in on your list is the Nike 2.
I've never flown a full flying stab, and I'd like to try.

wollins
03-16-2007, 06:48 AM
I guess if you're buying another one then it must have been good! :) How did you find its durability? I'd heard somewhere else that it was somewhat fragile?

Colin.

radralph
03-16-2007, 08:28 AM
If an axi 2826/8 will fit I would certainly recommend that outrunner based on many peoples' use of it for that application.

kkens4
03-16-2007, 10:49 AM
I guess if you're buying another one then it must have been good! :) How did you find its durability? I'd heard somewhere else that it was somewhat fragile?

Colin.

It's totally durable. Thw wing is two piece and stiff as a board. I'll tape my rudder though, as I don't think this ship needs it.(I'll be doing more hotlining than thermalling). I also put my elevator servo in the tail, as I don't like long linkages.

The only reason I crashed it long ago, was because I used flaperons, not spoilerons, to slow for landing.
Sure, it slowed down with flaperons, but the washout was affected so much that it tip stalled with disasterous results.
That was before I knew what was really going on.:o
Before I found forums, and while I was alone.
That's how I learned to fly. Alone.

kkens4
03-16-2007, 10:53 AM
If an axi 2826/8 will fit I would certainly recommend that outrunner based on many peoples' use of it for that application.

Lots of people swear by outrunners.
They are a good inexpensive choice.

My main gripe is their inefficiency.
With the power levels that I like to run, heat is a concern.
For me, the higher efficiency, the better.:)

wollins
03-16-2007, 05:18 PM
It's totally durable. Thw wing is two piece and stiff as a board.

That's awesome. How about the fuse though? This is where my concern really lies. Even though I had finally narrowed my choice down to this one, this was really the only thing I was concerned about. I like the look, cost AND performance of this plane over all the others "generally speaking".:D

I haven't bought mine yet (in a month or so when our season starts:rolleyes: ) but I intend to use a Hyperion 2220-10 brushless outrunner in it. Based on your experience (don't know if you have the new one in hand yet) I was wondering if you could help me out with a couple of questions:

1. Could you tell me if you think this motor will fit?

You can see the dimensions at the bottom of this (http://www.allerc.com/g22all.htm) page. The reason for my concern is that it seems to me that this motor is somewhat long at 47mm. Just wondering if with the thrust angle of the firewall (assuming that it has built in thrust angle) if the back end of the motor might rub against the side of the fuse?

2. What's the width of the inside of the fuse? To fit the receiver I want to use (AR7000 receiver which will have to fit crossways) it has to be at least 47mm.

3. Did you buy yours from NE Sailplanes? If not where? (I have a slight concern with NE sailplanes' customer service. :( )


Thanks!

Colin.

Jason T
03-16-2007, 06:20 PM
Mine Filip came from NEsail.com. I have had good luck with them with 3 sailplane purchases. However, I called them for every order and did not use their website. Not to say that they do not honor web orders but I felt more comfortable talking to someone there to make sure the item I wanted was in stock.

kkens4
03-21-2007, 11:04 AM
That's awesome. How about the fuse though? This is where my concern really lies. Even though I had finally narrowed my choice down to this one, this was really the only thing I was concerned about. I like the look, cost AND performance of this plane over all the others "generally speaking".:D

I haven't bought mine yet (in a month or so when our season starts:rolleyes: ) but I intend to use a Hyperion 2220-10 brushless outrunner in it. Based on your experience (don't know if you have the new one in hand yet) I was wondering if you could help me out with a couple of questions:

1. Could you tell me if you think this motor will fit?

You can see the dimensions at the bottom of this (http://www.allerc.com/g22all.htm) page. The reason for my concern is that it seems to me that this motor is somewhat long at 47mm. Just wondering if with the thrust angle of the firewall (assuming that it has built in thrust angle) if the back end of the motor might rub against the side of the fuse?

2. What's the width of the inside of the fuse? To fit the receiver I want to use (AR7000 receiver which will have to fit crossways) it has to be at least 47mm.

3. Did you buy yours from NE Sailplanes? If not where? (I have a slight concern with NE sailplanes' customer service. :( )


Thanks!

Colin.


No problem checking that out tonight Colin.:)
I have my Filip 400 at home, and it did come from NESailplanes.

wollins
03-21-2007, 11:56 AM
No problem checking that out tonight Colin.:)
I have my Filip 400 at home, and it did come from NESailplanes.

While you're at it could you also tell me the size spinner that it takes? :D (I guess that would be the exact diameter of the firewall/nose?) That would help out a lot! Thanks!

kkens4
03-22-2007, 02:06 AM
Hi Colin,
Here are a few pictures.

They show a Neu 1105/2.5Y 4.4gb (The one I intend to use)
also a BL480 4D/4,4gb (The one I used on my first one)
and an Axi 28/26/12 for size comparison.

The Axi is the same length as your linked outrunner except with an extra 5mm length on the Axi shaft. Your motor also is more narrow towards the front.
If you can find room for the motor wires, you should be OK. I inserted the Axi into the fuse in one of the pictures.

The JR R700 Rx. is 50mm wide with the crystal inserted. It seems to fit fine where it sits, and can be moved back much further.

I had a 5s 2070 lipo lying around and inserted it into the fuse so you could see how spacious it is. Certainly, there is enough room for as many lipos as you will need.:D

For a spinner, in my case, it seems it will be determined by me. Depending on which motor I choose. Since I'll be using the Neu 1105, a 30mm spinner should do me just fine. The Axi would require around 38mm.

My Filip comes from NESail.
I love those guys.:) (I have to, I'm from the Northeast);)
Even though they sometimes get a bad rep., I've never had trouble.
If you want a fuse that is precut, I suggest you talk to them in person.
In fact, I would talk to them in person anyway. Sal is not the only one there who knows their stuff.:)

I hope this helps some, and we look forward to your build!
Regards,
Ken

wollins
03-22-2007, 05:08 AM
Hey Ken,

Thanks for the info and pics ... it's really helpful. As far as my build, I was hoping that YOU will make a build thread of it since my build won't be for another month or two and I could learn from YOUR build! ;)

See, this is my first "skinny bird" (ie. hotliner or glider for that matter) ... my "go to" plane right now is a 13lb Yak drawing 3000+ watts. :D Lots of space to put my stuff inside etc. Not so much fiddly stuff.

I was actually surprised to see that it comes with the nose still attached etc. I thought it would have come with the firewall and with the thrust angle already built in. (if necessary) Guess I'll be doing more "fabricating" than I thought! :p

I actually didn't realize that it could actually take a bigger motor than the one I linked to but now seeing the axi fitted inside I may have to rethink my motor choice and go up a size. ;)

Hey, just to confirm ... it is a two wing setup right?

Colin.

kkens4
03-31-2007, 03:53 AM
Yes Colin, it's two piece.

I'm still thinking about mine.
I'm looking to put a HS125 mg in the tail for the elevator, and taping off the rudder. I hate to put too much weight in the tail because I don't want to snap it off during harsh landings.

I found I will be able to fit an Axi and 5s lipo and all the bells and whistles that go with it, but I'm still undecided on how I will attack the problem of the wires from the motor. I may just cut a hole in the fuse and run the wires out, then back in.

I plan on using Voltz Wing Max for the ailerons.:)
I just love the Voltz Wing Max!

If I get to my build before you get to yours, I'l be sure and post it. OK?

Chris F
04-01-2007, 12:42 AM
Hi Guy's,

What about the Hyperion Z-3007? Read half way down this page about this motor in the Filip 400 Sport. It looks like any of the Z-30 series will fit.
http://www.aircraft-world.com/prod_datasheets/hp/z30/z30all.htm

Chris.

wollins
04-04-2007, 12:43 PM
I found I will be able to fit an Axi and 5s lipo and all the bells and whistles that go with it


Hey Ken,

FIVE cells?! Wow, and I was worried about if my 4S pack (34mm X 98mm X 38mm) would fit! :D What do you think your AUW weight might end up being ... or should I say what is your goal weight? :)



I'm looking to put a HS125 mg in the tail for the elevator, and taping off the rudder. I hate to put too much weight in the tail because I don't want to snap it off during harsh landings.


I'm gonna tape off the rudder as well ... who needs it in a hotliner? :confused:

I'm still undecided on how I will attack the problem of the wires from the motor. I may just cut a hole in the fuse and run the wires out, then back in.

That's why I'm gonna start with the smaller motor (which I can push to about 60A in a crunch) but if I had a motor with that problem I think I would do the exact same thing you're planning.



I plan on using Voltz Wing Max for the ailerons.:)
I just love the Voltz Wing Max!


What's Volts Wing Max? I'm assuming servos?

Colin.

wollins
04-04-2007, 12:51 PM
Hi Guy's,

What about the Hyperion Z-3007? Read half way down this page about this motor in the Filip 400 Sport. It looks like any of the Z-30 series will fit.
http://www.aircraft-world.com/prod_datasheets/hp/z30/z30all.htm

Chris.


Seems like it would fit as well Chris, however there is a POSSIBILITY that the wires may rub which I imagine would be the potential problem with a lot of these skinny fuse planes. In any event my little 2220-10 should be guaranteed to fit based on Ken's pics etc and since this is my first hotliner the power it should give me should be more than enough. (over 600 watts which should be just under 300 watts per pound! :eek: )

I don't know much about desired power to weight ratios on these types of birds or this type of flying so I'm going by my "normal" power to weight ratios in my aerobatic planes. (where 200w per pound is plenty) Maybe Ken could chime in with this.

Colin.

Philscbx
04-04-2007, 01:11 PM
I'm still undecided on how I will attack the problem of the wires from the motor. I may just cut a hole in the fuse and run the wires out, then back in.

Hi KKens4,
I haven't finished my Thermic Sport 2.5 meter sailplane yet, but one of these days when I return to Germany.
I too toyed with all sorts of ideas to how to deal with the Axi's wires in a crowded fuse at the nose.
The solid fiber plate was used for the motor mount, and glassed in place.
Pre-jigged dry to make screw mounts go in from the front to the motor.
I positioned the motor so the wires are going upward to one side.

To manage the wires, I used the same servo guide channel that goes down
the wings.
This channel was then glassed in flush along the inside, and just below the edge of the canopy.
Being the channel is rectangle in shape, it allows all 3 wires to fit snugly.

Once the channel is solid glued in, I then make a knife slit along the top
narrow edge of the channel. The channel is soft enough to flex within
the fuse to follow the curve of the fuse.

The channel's length maybe 2-3 inches long, depending on length of wires from the motor. The wires are organized flat. No twists or cross overs.

With the slit made in channel, I then use a wide knife or scraper blade to
open the slit, flexing it open to insert the wires.
They are now captured very securely as the channel flexes back to a closed
position.

I'm sure other types of material for channel could be used.

I attached a view of the motor and prop that I use.
Unfortunately I don't have the glider here to make other images.
I could have my Son take a few shots of it, as it sits in Germany, to show the motor in place.
Testing the motor's performance was very impressive.
A one handed grip wasn't safe enough at full thrust holding it vertical.

Good luck, and waiting to see these builds myself.
Phil
Mpls Mn

wollins
04-04-2007, 05:56 PM
Hi Colin,
If you want a fuse that is precut, I suggest you talk to them in person.
In fact, I would talk to them in person anyway. Sal is not the only one there who knows their stuff.:)

I hope this helps some, and we look forward to your build!
Regards,
Ken


Ken, I just re-read this.

Question: Does the fuse come standard with the nose NOT cut? (like yours) If so, is the fuse precut a special request? If so, do they install the firewall etc as well? Also what do they charge for these "extra services"?

Colin.

Chris F
04-04-2007, 10:38 PM
The Filip should come in both electric or slope versions. If only the slope version is available it is easy to modify it to electric. I expect this is what Ken has done

tramp8754
05-27-2008, 01:49 AM
http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2842
wingspan: 79.5" (2000mm)
length: 44" (1120mm)
motor: AXI 2826/10
prop: Aeronaut CAM folder 12X6
esc: Phoenix-45
battery: Poly-Quest 2500mAh 25c
power: 364W/38A
auw: 46 oz (1304g)
servos: 4 x HS-65HB
flaperons/spoilerons