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View Full Version : Refugees from Ezone Gather here!


easytiger
10-02-2005, 04:19 AM
Been banned, abused, removed from moderator status, or just plain dissapointed by what happened to ezone?
Check in here!

Turbojoe
10-02-2005, 04:32 AM
Hehe. I've been here about two weeks. What took you so long?;)
WattFlyer is growing very fast. I think it's going to give RCPoops a real run for its money.


Joe

easytiger
10-02-2005, 04:37 AM
Good question!

I don't know WHAT is happening over there. They had some really bad moderators for the last year(and some really great ones, too) but the whole thing turned south with the warning system. I've seen it before on other boards, it absolutely destroys any real dialogue, and you have these people pushing report buttons all day.
I got absolutely rediculous warnings(and some deserved) but I just got banned for the second time...for nothing.
That's it for me, I'm not the problem(this time!), Rcgroups is.

rcers
10-02-2005, 02:47 PM
But easytiger - Mr. Lin is not here, what will you do?

:D

Mike

easytiger
10-02-2005, 04:44 PM
Thank God for that.
Everywhere you go on that site, you see Mr. Houng-Wen Lin spewing his nonsense, and an army of syncophant LinMings sucking it up.
Saint Lin. Sure.

Anyway, as long as he does not show up HERE, who cares?

What's with all the fired moderators? Did he fire them all?

Turbojoe
10-02-2005, 08:00 PM
I don't know what's up with the warning system there. It's like their minds have been taken over by Jerry Falwell or something.
I got my first warning for describing something as crappy. My last warning was for saying "there goes this thread" when SpencerJ showed up in the Molt Models Tyro thread. Michael Heer called it a personal attack. :rolleyes: You can try to contest the warning but they just ignore you.
I'd like to say some nasty things about Mr. Heer and all the other holier than though mods on RCPoops but I won't. Lets just say that I have a problem with whimps on a power trip that hide behind the internet and leave it at that.


Joe

buzzltyr
10-02-2005, 08:38 PM
Joe, that's why I wouldn't post my Eva graphic on RCG. And I only post in threads where I can offer sound advice (after having been criticized several times for advice which I knew was pretty good). I don't post in the off topic forums, at all. Not worth the hassle. I never had a run-in with a mod, but then I keep my posts very, very tame. Basically just posting in the MM/SA/Molt threads, when appropriate. Probably why my post count is so low there, despite over two years of daily viewing.

Mark

termite
10-02-2005, 10:51 PM
The E-Zone and me are thru. PERIOD

How ya been Joe?????? Nice to see ya postin'

Can't even post a for sale thread over there without someone puttin a bunch of crap in it and when ya tell em what ya think=WARNING POINT

I'll be offering up a couple bargains in the for sale area so keep your eyes open!!!!

Randy
Dynamo Electrics

Turbojoe
10-02-2005, 11:22 PM
Glad to see another good vendor show up here Randy! I always look forward to your sales. Sure wish you had servos as I'm in the market for some of the new Hitec HS-65HB's when they come out.

I took a quick look on your website and saw you now have the EDF Models 303 Airliner. :eek: :eek: :eek: Oh my God what a beautiful plane. I did some reading about it and watched the videos. It ain't cheap but it looks to be worth every penny. If I ever have a bag of money fall out of the sky and hit me you'll be hearing from me for one of these.


Joe

Turbojoe
10-02-2005, 11:24 PM
Let's get a link to your website out here in the open.

Dynamo Electrics (http://www.dynamoelectrics.com/)

Joe

E-Challenged
10-02-2005, 11:43 PM
I have been haunting E-Zone, posting and replying for about 3 years and didn't notice much out and out nastiness. I have gotten tons of useful information and hopefully helped others on E-Zone. I appreciate all the time and effort spent by the moderators and other volunteers who made E-Zone available and hope that it doesn't become so politically correct that it becomes like the model magazines. When you see the way anonymous people drive and react to each other on freeways, it's not surprising that some rub each other the wrong way on internet forums.Trouble makers and trolls live for confrontation, ignore them and they will usually go away.:)

termite
10-02-2005, 11:46 PM
THANKS JOE

Randy

Turbojoe
10-03-2005, 12:35 AM
What's wrong with E-Zone is the lack of consistency with which the moderators rule. They use no set guidelines as to how to run the forum. When I got the warning for saying crappy to describe something I did a search for the word and the moderators themselves were some of the worst offenders for using the same word! There are a lot of people that are sick of the way things are going over there. That's why they're coming here. WattFlyer offers something fresh and new for us. If you're happy there then by all means continue to use the resources they offer. As soon as the few threads I'm involved in run their course I'll be leaving them for good and having my membership removed.

Joe

Turbojoe
10-03-2005, 12:40 AM
Take a look at some of the complaints in THIS (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=259) forum on RCG. It'll give you an idea of what we're talking about.


Joe

Twmaster
10-03-2005, 01:13 AM
A long time ago when I first joined RCG. (*blink* holy makerel! 4 years ago!) that was the place to be. After the onslaught of moderator madness I kinda drifted away. About the only thing I do over there anymore is buy and sell goodies. 'Tis a shame. :(

easytiger
10-03-2005, 02:29 AM
It's a whole weird situation. I hear the moderators complaining about how they got treated so badly by Jim, but on the other hand, it was really poor moderation that created the problem in the first place.

Family freindly...sure. But giving someone a slap for "crappy?" Is that like, QUAKER family friendly?

I also maintain that the whole "point" system is pathetic. Did you see that guy, sensiblenick, who got NINE points for one thread? How sad is that?



Somebody is off their meds, and that site is sinking fast.

easytiger
10-03-2005, 02:36 AM
Let's get a link to your website out here in the open.

Dynamo Electrics (http://www.dynamoelectrics.com/)

Joe

That airliner is just awesome.
The new business jet is even MORE awesome. When does that come in?

easytiger
10-03-2005, 02:38 AM
I have been haunting E-Zone, posting and replying for about 3 years and didn't notice much out and out nastiness. I have gotten tons of useful information and hopefully helped others on E-Zone. I appreciate all the time and effort spent by the moderators and other volunteers who made E-Zone available and hope that it doesn't become so politically correct that it becomes like the model magazines. When you see the way anonymous people drive and react to each other on freeways, it's not surprising that some rub each other the wrong way on internet forums.Trouble makers and trolls live for confrontation, ignore them and they will usually go away.:)

Yup. Troublemakers and trolls are not really a big deal.
Overzealous moderators are BIGGER deal.
And what's with anybody who says anything that somebody does not like suddenly get called a "troll" over there? Does anybody there even know what a troll is?

termite
10-03-2005, 04:53 AM
easytiger,
Hope to have the Lear Jet by the end of November!!!!
Can't wait; That is the sleekest sexyest airplane EVER!!!!!

Randy

easytiger
10-03-2005, 04:57 AM
What kind of construction are they? Is it plastic over foam?

Craig
10-03-2005, 05:05 AM
My first post here on this site and looking forward to many more. Been an Ezone user for almost 3 years. I really used to like all the new planes people were building and the different ideas you could always find. But it seems over the past year or so there has only been a couple of people coming out with really nice kits that are worth anything. Seems most companies are all just coming out with variations of the same old designs by a different name.
You used to find new planes designs coming out all the time with really cool covering schemes. So I am hoping to find some new ideas here to build.

termite
10-03-2005, 01:52 PM
What kind of construction are they? Is it plastic over foam?


Very nice molded plastic with EPP formers and other inovative construction methods.

More info here www.edfmodel.com (http://www.edfmodel.com)

I've got the 303 on my website www.dynamoelectrics.com (http://www.dynamoelectrics.com)

Randy

easytiger
10-03-2005, 01:58 PM
My first post here on this site and looking forward to many more. Been an Ezone user for almost 3 years. I really used to like all the new planes people were building and the different ideas you could always find. But it seems over the past year or so there has only been a couple of people coming out with really nice kits that are worth anything. Seems most companies are all just coming out with variations of the same old designs by a different name.
You used to find new planes designs coming out all the time with really cool covering schemes. So I am hoping to find some new ideas here to build.

I saw that, too. That there aren't as many interesting and innovative posts and models coming out on ezone anymore. Not a slight on those who ARE posting interesting stuff, and there are a few. But hardly the way it used to be.

Content is king, and the content ain't what it used to be. May or may not be ezone's fault, but I did notice the lack of content.

Matt Kirsch
10-03-2005, 01:59 PM
Guys, welcome to WattFlyer.com! We hope you like what you see. Rest assured, we are not going to censor you for expressing your opinion about a product, as long as you don't get too colorful (i.e. George Carlin's 7 words you can't say on TV), and we will try to be as fair and even-handed with the moderation as is humanly possible (i.e. obviously we can't read every post).

I know some of you guys are a little bitter over changes that have been made recently at Ezone, but please remember that this site has rules too. We're a LOT looser than what Ezone has allegedly become, but please refrain from using this board as a place to play "beat on" Jim Bourke, Mr. Lin, or any other other Ezone personality. Personal attacks and flaming are not allowed here either, and some of the talk I'm seeing above is getting mighty close to the line...

The rules are right here:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15

easytiger
10-03-2005, 02:21 PM
Be aware that Ezone never had a problem with anybody using THIER site for venting/beating up on/whatever RCU/Wattflyer!
If this thread serves as a place of entry for frustrated ezoners to your site, be glad it's here.
I can't speak for anybody else, but I myself don't seriously lose sleep over any of this web stuff, but it's nice to talk about it now and then. I think many of us had a lot invested into ezone, and are very dissapointed with the way things are going.
It's like this:
I would NEVER have contributed 3500 posts to ezone if I had known it would turn into what it is. Never. That is what is bothersome.
Mr. Lin? As long as he does not show up here spamming, who cares about him? Happy to leave him out of it.

Matt Kirsch
10-03-2005, 02:32 PM
Please re-read my post, easytiger. I never said anything about venting or beating up on a site. The particular issue I addressed is PERSONAL ATTACKS and FLAMING, which Watt Flyer's posting rules clearly prohibit. Yes, even Mr. Lin is protected by that rule.

easytiger
10-03-2005, 03:42 PM
No problem, just don't want to see all the flavor boiled out of the food like over at ezone, is all.
A little bit of spice makes the web forums interesting.
Nothing more boring than:
"Your plane is nice."
"So is yours."
"Isin't this nice?"
"Yes. Very nice."
Yawn!
Slightly tricky to find the balance between boring and just plain nasty. RCU, at the moment, seems to have struck the right balance, ezone seems to have gone off the deep end with sanitization, and others, like Flightlines, were TOO free for all and suffered the consequences.
Not an easy job, I don't envy you, but my general take is that less is more, moderation-wise, and that most trolls and ne'er-do-wells sort themselves out pretty much on their own.

easytiger
10-03-2005, 03:50 PM
easytiger,
Hope to have the Lear Jet by the end of November!!!!
Can't wait; That is the sleekest sexyest airplane EVER!!!!!

Randy

The bizjet is even cooler than the airliner(by a mile....)
I kind of want one, if I get it, I will do a full review for RCJI...
What about retracts?

Tom Korn
10-03-2005, 04:13 PM
Not to beat a dead horse too much, but Randy really got abused by a moderator for no good reason.

I met him at SEFF, and I can tell you that he's a great guy that deserves our business.

ChuckB
10-03-2005, 04:14 PM
Have we forgotten what the hobby is all about? It appears reading this forum that because you were censored you are unhappy. There is an old saying, "that if you can't say something good about the person than don't say anything at all." True RCG has invoked some of their rules. But we must remember that it is "their" rules and if you want to utilize that website than follow the rules. This hobby has some much going for it why do we want to drag it down with disparaging remarks. We can learn so much from these forums. Lets keep moving up in this hobby with respect and encouragement for one another. Please note I'm not trying to slam anybody but to keep a positive note on our hobby.
ChuckB

easytiger
10-03-2005, 04:15 PM
You're not beating a dead horse at all...it's not your imagination or him having a persecution complex, something is not right over there.
Was just watching the video of the bizjet, it's REALLY impressive. Once in a while you see a model that is really DIFFERENT, really innovative, and to me, this is one of them.

easytiger
10-03-2005, 04:19 PM
Have we forgotten what the hobby is all about? It appears reading this forum that because you were censored you are unhappy. There is an old saying, "that if you can't say something good about the person than don't say anything at all." True RCG has invoked some of their rules. But we must remember that it is "their" rules and if you want to utilize that website than follow the rules. This hobby has some much going for it why do we want to drag it down with disparaging remarks. We can learn so much from these forums. Lets keep moving up in this hobby with respect and encouragement for one another. Please note I'm not trying to slam anybody but to keep a positive note on our hobby.
ChuckB

Hey, I'm still positive, and much more concerned about models than web boards, but that does not mean we cannot talk about certain things that are not 100% positive. As far as "all smiles and sunshine and nothing else", it does not work, it's not the nature of the medium, and it's incredibly boring.
And they did NOT "invoke some of the rules". They changed them. And they enforced them in a random and capricious manner, and many of the people who got slapped did not even KNOW they were stepping over some line.

ChuckB
10-03-2005, 04:34 PM
easytiger,
I'm not saying that everything should be smiles and sunshine. But if you have a problem with them then you should address that directly to them. If they don't listen then leave as you did. I know that you were a member for a long time and knew what was going on over there. You are correct that if they did change the rules they should have posted them. But again I'll say that there are ways of approaching the matter to resolve the issue. We do not have to bad mouth one another to resolve the matter.
Happy Flying,
ChuckB

easytiger
10-03-2005, 04:50 PM
It's not just random badmouthing, it's expressing a wish that they would change their ways for the better.

As for me...I'm kind of bored with ezone drama at the moment...same as you!
So I'm moving on.

admin
10-03-2005, 08:12 PM
WattFlyer will continue to listen to its member and try to strike the best balance while fully maximing the free flow of information. This site aims to bring the fun back to the members. I don't want people to be afraid to post here because they may get a "point" or something. Since there are no advertisers on WattFlyer it can apply the rules to everyone without any bias, politics or whatever. This is a grand experiment that I know will work out well. I think you just give people what they want and many positive things always come from those efforts.

termite
10-03-2005, 10:49 PM
The bizjet is even cooler than the airliner(by a mile....)
I kind of want one, if I get it, I will do a full review for RCJI...
What about retracts?

Tom, Thanks for the support!!!!

The Lear should be able to handle retracts; one of the beta builders is working on that now.

Randy

Turbojoe
10-03-2005, 11:25 PM
After reading all the new posts to this thread I went back and re-read my posts. Mine was a pretty blatant personal attack. I'll apologize to WattFlyer and its members and moderators but not to RCGroups. My opinion of the moderators on that site hasn't changed. I will however try to be more civil here on the subject of RC Groups. I don't think I'm the last you'll see venting about them here though.

On a more positive note......:D It really is a breath of fresh air here. More and more people are showing up. Where it was just 5 or 6 new posts a day when I first signed up I see 76 new posts in the notification box above. I'll bet within a month there will be hundreds of new posts per hour. I see good things ahead. What impresses me most is the moderators getting involved in the threads in a more personal way. They encourage rather than reprimand.

Rest easy Matt and Marc. I pretty much have the venting out of my system. You're the good guys so there's no need for me to start off on the wrong foot here by testing your limits. Testing is over.


Joe

bsoder
10-03-2005, 11:51 PM
Jeez, Joe... save it for the soccer players already. ;)

jrb
10-06-2005, 09:39 PM
I like the speed w/o the overhead of banners (etc.); also being able to search (most of the time) w/o being logged in.


Their E-Flight FAQs & 4x10^6+ posts are a graet source; even the ones about NiCds! Its also great to be able point folks to places where the same things have been talked about dozens of times.


Donít really see a down side there, and a real need here? Canít really speak to the ďoverĒ moderation issue; family friendly is very nice.


But, like some others Iím sure, I feel a little ďdirtyĒ visiting here; could be the hours spent and knowledge gain over there during the past 6 years and 4,966 posts. Not sure how regular Iíll be here?


Jim

uglyplane
10-06-2005, 10:02 PM
I enjoy diversity and was linked to this site a little while back. I like it a lot. I have no beef with RCG at all. I have been on it for over 6 years (can't tell by my ID, as they had a big reset in '99 or 2000). I will continue to frequent both forums. I stay mostly in the heli forums and because of RCG I have met 4 people (directly and indirectly) that I have flown with.
I say the more the merrier and I wish luck and success to this site as well. :)

easytiger
10-07-2005, 01:08 AM
A lot of the most talented people don't post there anymore. I see a site in major decline, which is at the same time saying "everything is fine!"

mauilvr
10-07-2005, 06:33 AM
A lot of the most talented people don't post there anymore. I see a site in major decline, which is at the same time saying "everything is fine!"I don't see that at all. Can you post some information to support your contention?

easytiger
10-07-2005, 01:12 PM
I don't see that at all. Can you post some information to support your contention?

Of COURSE! Everything is FINE over there. You're one of the moderators that got fired, right?
I'm with Jim! Everything is fine, nothing is wrong, as a matter of fact, the site is GROWING faster than ever!

Ben Diss
10-07-2005, 02:18 PM
How about where one poster calls a member racist and only gets an alert while another member uses asterics in place of profanity and gets warning points?

Yea, everything is fine.

-Ben

easytiger
10-07-2005, 03:04 PM
Yeah, everything is fine.

I liked the censoring of the link to nose art. How pathetic is that?

I think King Of The Hill was one of the most INTERESTING members, too.
I never found anything he said offensive in the slightest. I DEFINITELY found calling him a racist QUITE offensive. But I would not report him. But if someone did, for him only to get an alert, while others get warnings for totally preposterous stuff, that's pathetic.
Jim Bourke just went through all my old posts and gave me a dozen warnings, all by himself. Now I have seventeen! Proud of it!
Glad he has nothing better to do with his time!

What IS the deal with Jim Bourke and Houng-Wen Lin? How much, exactly, does Lin give to Bourke?
I mean, he was suspended from the site a few years ago, because of his constant spamming over all the forums.
Then he comes back, and he is given his OWN forum? And he still spams all over the place, and gets no warnings? Something's rotten in Denmark...and China.

How many moderators do they have now? Any?

rcers
10-07-2005, 03:09 PM
It's not just random badmouthing, it's expressing a wish that they would change their ways for the better.

As for me...I'm kind of bored with ezone drama at the moment...same as you!
So I'm moving on.
easytiger - I thought you were moving on?

Mike

easytiger
10-07-2005, 03:11 PM
easytiger - I thought you were moving on?

Mike

Evidently, YOU found it interesting enough to post.
Others did, too.
So, you can pass up this thread or participate as you like, if it's not interesting to you, what do you care?

rcers
10-07-2005, 03:13 PM
I care because I like GWS products, and got really tired of your constant off-topic discussion in the GWS threads on the eZone.

Direct quote from you, I guess your not bored with the drama, you flock to it. So be it, but you were the one saying you were moving on.

Mike

easytiger
10-07-2005, 03:25 PM
I care because I like GWS products, and got really tired of your constant off-topic discussion in the GWS threads on the eZone.

Direct quote from you, I guess your not bored with the drama, you flock to it. So be it, but you were the one saying you were moving on.

Mike

I care also because I don't like Houng-Wen spamming every forum with promises of new products that don't exist, or pretending that problems with his products don't exist, or basically using an entire web board as a sales tool. I also don't care for members who hang on his every word and take it as gospel and then blind themselves to any and all facts that might disprove their argument. I don't care for a company that borrows and copies anything and everything they can when it suits them spewing off against other companies that might have the nerve to do the same back to them. Enough said.
So...what IS the deal with Houng-Wen Lin and Jim Bourke?

What's the deal with Jim's "personal problems?"
Is it all really about the money? Is it simply a case of the site not making enough to stay afloat?
No idea.

mauilvr
10-07-2005, 03:27 PM
You're one of the moderators that got fired, right?
Wrong again. ;)
Everything is fine, nothing is wrong, as a matter of fact, the site is GROWING faster than ever You're right about that, it's still growing quickly every day.With that growth are the normal growing pains.

The biggest problem for any site, whether it be RCG or Watt Flyer, are those users who constantly violate the rules, taking up the valuable time of volunteer moderators.

Jim Bourke just went through all my old posts and gave me a dozen warnings, all by himself. Now I have seventeen!A perfect example of someone who takes up an inordinate amount of the admins time.

Perhaps if you didn't violate the rules you wouldn't get all those warnings?

easytiger
10-07-2005, 03:31 PM
Wrong again. ;)
You're right about that, it's still growing quickly every day.With that growth are the normal growing pains.

The biggest problem for any site, whether it be RCG or Watt Flyer, are those users who constantly violate the rules, taking up the valuable time of volunteer moderators.

A perfect example of someone who takes up an inordinate amount of the admins time.

Perhaps if you didn't violate the rules you wouldn't get all those warnings?


YOU seem to have PLENTY of time on your hands, and YOU seem to actually REVEL in the whole moderating thing, so what are YOU complaing about?

Of course! RCG is growing! Everything is FINE!

Mike Parsons
10-07-2005, 03:39 PM
Everyone take a deep breath <inhale........exhale...>. Lets keep the thread addressed on issues and not turn it on eachother.

Mike (keeping my good eye on the thread)

Ben Diss
10-07-2005, 03:42 PM
easytiger- Ric resigned in protest to the mod purge. Ric was the mod of the glider forums and did a good job in our quiet little corner of RCG.


I think our strong emotions in response to Jim's actions is due to the apparent inequity that it brings. Where something is wrong in one case, yet allowed in another we take notice. When these inequities touch us personally we tend to take offense. I have never received a warning point because I rarely post anymore. I used to post build threads, but I fear that I may inadvertently overstep some invisible line drawn in the sand and get punished for it. I avoid this by not participating.

The earliest example I can recall of Jim's unfair moderating is the Sal banning. Love him or hate him, the fact remains that the incident occurred two weeks after a big blow up that caused Sal to pull his ads from RCG. Others with multiple accounts had the accounts merged. Sal was banned. Sal's guilt or innocence is not the issue. The issue is that the punishment was meant to do harm to him and his business, was unprecedented and unfair.

-Ben

easytiger
10-07-2005, 03:50 PM
easytiger- Ric resigned in protest to the mod purge. Ric was the mod of the glider forums and did a good job in our quiet little corner of RCG.


I think our strong emotions in response to Jim's actions is due to the apparent inequity that it brings. Where something is wrong in one case, yet allowed in another we take notice. When these inequities touch us personally we tend to take offense. I have never received a warning point because I rarely post anymore. I used to post build threads, but I fear that I may inadvertently overstep some invisible line drawn in the sand and get punished for it. I avoid this by not participating.

The earliest example I can recall of Jim's unfair moderating is the Sal banning. Love him or hate him, the fact remains that the incident occurred two weeks after a big blow up that caused Sal to pull his ads from RCG. Others with multiple accounts had the accounts merged. Sal was banned. Sal's guilt or innocence is not the issue. The issue is that the punishment was meant to do harm to him and his business, was unprecedented and unfair.

-Ben

ABSOLUTELY.
I was STAGGERED that the Salbashing was allowed to continue for so long. He may not be perfect, but what was going on in the Vendors forum was outrageous. ANY time someone started a thread mentioning NSP, good or bad, you had the same crew of people chime in and say how awful he was. At what point do you say "you have already SAID your piece, now you are just bashing?" That line was crossed long, long ago. It was absolutely unfair to Sal. It was an ugly business. He could not win. And the moderators (and Jim) did a BAD job of it. They created an environment where you could say anything bad you wanted, as often as you wanted, about Sal.
And at the same time, Sal was paying for ads. Can't blame him for pulling his ads, can you?
And yes, the punishment was totally petty, as was the crime, totally petty.
It's Jim's loss. Sal had a lot to offer.
It's Sal's gain, as he would have sooner or later given himself a heart attack over that forum! It was a totally stacked deck against him. It was sickening.

easytiger
10-07-2005, 03:51 PM
Everyone take a deep breath <inhale........exhale...>. Lets keep the thread addressed on issues and not turn it on eachother.

Mike (keeping my good eye on the thread)

No problem.

mauilvr
10-07-2005, 04:25 PM
Ric resigned in protest to the mod purge. Ric was the mod of the glider forums and did a good job in our quiet little corner of RCG.Thanks, Ben, for the kind words. :)

The advantage I had in moderating all the sailplane forums is that most all glider guiders are mellow people and rarely cause any trouble at all. A great group of people.

I did moderate the off-topic forum (LTU&P) for quite awhile (also during the lead-up to the elections :eek: ) and had more than my fair share of out of control posters.

MRRC
10-07-2005, 04:48 PM
ANY time someone started a thread mentioning NSP, good or bad, you had the same crew of people chime in and say how awful he was. At what point do you say "you have already SAID your piece, now you are just bashing?"

Gee, kinda like someone I know and Mr. Lin from GWS :rolleyes: Maybe you should take your own advice?

Weren't you banned from RCU a while back also??

easytiger
10-07-2005, 05:32 PM
I don't see that at all. Can you post some information to support your contention?

"I used to post build threads, but I fear that I may inadvertently overstep some invisible line drawn in the sand and get punished for it. I avoid this by not participating."-Ben Diss.

LOTS of people feel that way.

Of course. Everything is fine.
But you resigned in protest, no?

easytiger
10-07-2005, 05:34 PM
Gee, kinda like someone I know and Mr. Lin from GWS :rolleyes: Maybe you should take your own advice?

Weren't you banned from RCU a while back also??

Absolutely. Banned! And they ASKED me to come back.
And they changed the way they moderated the site, and the site is much better for it.
They can let me back onto RCgroups, but I still would not go back under the current system. There are some obvious changes that need to be made. If they want to pretend everything is fine, great. But they will keep losing people, and sooner or later, lose the whole site.

MRRC
10-07-2005, 05:43 PM
But they will keep losing people, and sooner or later, lose the whole site.

No they won't :rolleyes:

easytiger
10-07-2005, 05:45 PM
No they won't :rolleyes:

Of course not. Everything is FINE!

Look at the way NSP was handled, then look at GWS. Big difference.

mauilvr
10-07-2005, 06:44 PM
But you resigned in protest, no?I resigned in protest of how the mods who were "dismissed" were treated. Nothing more, so quit trying to turn it into something it isn't.
I openly posted why, so if you find it so fascinating then go look up my posts.

Is everything perfect at RCG? Of course not - any site of that size has growing pains. Nothing abnormal about that.

It's still a great resource for anyone interested in RC and will remain so for a long, long time. I personally use it everyday.

If you could abstain from making personal attacks you could use it too. :)

easytiger
10-07-2005, 06:54 PM
But I thought everything was fine!

I guess all that stuff against Sal was not "personal attacks". I see consistent inconsistency.
Thanks for the invite, but I don't approve of the "point" system, or many other things going on right now at RCG, so unless there are so changes, I will pass on coming back.

mauilvr
10-07-2005, 07:32 PM
Thanks for the inviteYou're clearly misunderstood my post. That wasn't an invite, it was just a comment.

RCG doesn't need members whose sole purpose is to stir up trouble. I'm sure Marc and the admins here feel the same way. Both sites are all about RC. :)

I will pass on coming back.I'll hold you to that. :p

Mike Parsons
10-07-2005, 08:41 PM
I am moving this to Off-topic since it is not a topic related to e-power RC flying as is General Electrics. I have left a redirect however in the original forum.

Thanks,
Mike

Dreamer
10-07-2005, 10:06 PM
ET, in your opinion, what defines a "good" moderator?

Martin

Tom Korn
10-07-2005, 10:47 PM
Thanks for the info about Sal, Ben, I never could understand the beating he took.

ET and Malivr, Look, over there, MID-AIR! (Tk's feeble attempt at distraction.)

Electroman7
10-07-2005, 10:57 PM
Hey guys, I have also stopped using the LTuP forum at RCG. The thread is dominated by about 1/2 dozen people who control all threads. Other than that I see some problems with moderators here and there, but I still look at the on topic forums frequently. This site is a breath of fresh air.

admin
10-07-2005, 11:15 PM
I really want to ensure this site maintains a friendly and inviting atmosphere that everyone looks forward to reading and posting. Moderating is always a tough job and my strategy has always been to listen to the community first to help establish the rules and guidelines then work with mods to find that delicate balance but I'm confident that the members and moderators here will prove to be the integral component in making this all happen "just right" here.

easytiger
10-08-2005, 12:44 AM
Thanks for the info about Sal, Ben, I never could understand the beating he took.

ET and Malivr, Look, over there, MID-AIR! (Tk's feeble attempt at distraction.)
It wasn't right.
And there was more to the backstory than the public was told.
As is happening now.
"Personal problems". Sure.
And whassup with Mr. Lin? I think there was an under the table deal there.

easytiger
10-08-2005, 12:47 AM
Hey guys, I have also stopped using the LTuP forum at RCG. The thread is dominated by about 1/2 dozen people who control all threads. Other than that I see some problems with moderators here and there, but I still look at the on topic forums frequently. This site is a breath of fresh air.

Yeah, it got taken over by a few people. The moderation went downhill in THAT forum, for sure. Feels VERY biased. It's boring, you can predict what people are going to say before they say it, and some of the people there are downright scary fanatics.

Nice to see THIS forum, we do need some fresh air.

easytiger
10-08-2005, 12:50 AM
ET, in your opinion, what defines a "good" moderator?

Martin

If Mauilover is Ric Duley, he was aok by me.
Some of the others really stunk, though.
But the moderators are not at fault for everything, not by a long shot. Blame the owner, for not paying attention when there was bad moderation, and then changing all the rules on them, and emasculating all the good moderators.

Rugar
10-08-2005, 05:38 AM
If Mauilover is Ric Duley, he was aok by me.
Some of the others really stunk, though.
But the moderators are not at fault for everything, not by a long shot. Blame the owner, for not paying attention when there was bad moderation, and then changing all the rules on them, and emasculating all the good moderators.

You still did not answer his question.

SaMx
10-09-2005, 11:06 PM
one thing I noticed is that whenever J Bouke gives out warning points they always seem to be angry and spiteful. The thing with Kingofthehill is a good example. With the squirrel avatar, Bouke just gave him 3 warning points because he didn't believe it was really Kingofthehills pet squirrel. It is Bourke's site, but he seems to get really emotionally involved in every dispute. He should find some good moderators, and let them handle the warning points.

SaMx
10-09-2005, 11:07 PM
Also, the point systemisn't that great. The warnings are supposed to be just warnings, but in reality they really are punishment. It's worse now because the mods can't just post or pm people to calm down, they can only hand out points. I like that here the mods can pop in and tell people to tone it down a notch.

Turbojoe
10-09-2005, 11:43 PM
I know it's trivial and beating a dead horse but I got my first RCG warning for describing something as crappy. Then I see Jim Bourke use the word crap in one of his posts! It simply isn't consistent over there. THAT is what burns me up. I'm not expecting to get away with a potty mouth here on WattFlyer. I'd just like to be treated with a little human respect and not be "spanked" in public. What's wrong with editing an offending post and sending a P.M. to the offender? Why does it have to be a public slap in the face?
I've already seen here where the mods have had to step in and "advise" to be careful about what is being said. While not targeted directly at me I realized I was the offender. I made my apology and have nothing but respect for the mods for pointing out to me that I was "on the edge" of what is acceptable here. Had RC Groups done that I wouldn't be bad mouthing them like I do.
It's very simple. Just treat people with respect rather than contempt!


Joe

easytiger
10-10-2005, 12:07 AM
Getting a warning over "crappy" is not moderating. It's CRAPPY.
They said "crap" back in 1976 in "The Bad News Bears" and got a G rating.
That's just pathetic. Not "family friendly", just petty and pathetic.

Does anybody know...is this a religious thing? Several people suggested to me that SOMEONE had a religious revalation and that is behind this...any clues?

easytiger
10-10-2005, 12:10 AM
one thing I noticed is that whenever J Bouke gives out warning points they always seem to be angry and spiteful. The thing with Kingofthehill is a good example. With the squirrel avatar, Bouke just gave him 3 warning points because he didn't believe it was really Kingofthehills pet squirrel. It is Bourke's site, but he seems to get really emotionally involved in every dispute. He should find some good moderators, and let them handle the warning points.

Yup. He gave me seven all at once, then changed my "label" to "on vaction" from "banned". Seemed nothing but petty, personal, and spiteful.
Did kingofthehill get banned over his avatar of some guy's buttcrack showing? How goofy is that?

admin
10-10-2005, 01:37 AM
Well one thing I will guarantee here...we won't be using the warning point system. It is a 5 minute install that I won't touch with a 10 foot pole after reading the comments you guys have about it in this thread. It reminds me of calling a company and getting those voice prompts instead of actually talking to a human being operator. I don't believe moderating is like driving a car where you get "points". It is about human interaction and is a fluid and ever changing art. If done right everyone including the membership should feel ok about a little direction here and there when it becomes necessary.

Turbojoe
10-10-2005, 02:03 AM
Marc,

Absolutely! P.M. or e-mail and beat me up for doing something stupid. I'll understand and comply then. Just don't make me go stand in the corner or try to embarrass me in public like the points system does. You're doing it right here. Keep it up!

Joe

easytiger
10-10-2005, 03:07 AM
Well one thing I will guarantee here...we won't be using the warning point system. It is a 5 minute install that I won't touch with a 10 foot pole after reading the comments you guys have about it in this thread. It reminds me of calling a company and getting those voice prompts instead of actually talking to a human being operator. I don't believe moderating is like driving a car where you get "points". It is about human interaction and is a fluid and ever changing art. If done right everyone including the membership should feel ok about a little direction here and there when it becomes necessary.

That's about the size of it. The whole "point" system is untenable. And it seems like it was the start of the real problems at RCgroups.
But Jim refuses to accept that. Oh, well.
NOBODY is saying "no moderation". But the "point system" is not the way.

Mike Wizynajtys
10-10-2005, 02:19 PM
That's about the size of it. The whole "point" system is untenable. And it seems like it was the start of the real problems at RCgroups.
But Jim refuses to accept that. Oh, well.
NOBODY is saying "no moderation". But the "point system" is not the way.


I don't agree that it's untenable, if the mod pulling the trigger on the warning just uses a little common sense.

I also think posters who come on strong and consistantly post just bearly within the rules of the website are part of the reason the rules get turned into kindergarten rules. The mods continually have to redefine rules for those few individuals that operate like a bull in a china shop and eventually the entire site suffers for it. IMHO, that's a big part of what happened over at RCG.

Hopfully, Marc dosen't let that happen here.

Wiz

easytiger
10-10-2005, 02:40 PM
I (respectfully) disagree. I think the points system is childish and lazy, and I think the rules are unclear, childish, and petty. I think "crap" is a perfect example. It's not un-family-friendly, it's just weird.
Who is offended by "crappy?"

easytiger
10-10-2005, 02:47 PM
Another thing is this...all credit to Marc Vigod for recognizing that too much moderation and too "family friendly" is not the way to go. He absolutely CHANGED the way he did things a few years ago...he was smart enough to recognize that the core audience is NOT nine year old altarboys and that people can speak with reasonable freedom and nobody will die. There is still a line that can be crossed, of course, but it's more like at least PG, not sub-G rating.

Mike Wizynajtys
10-10-2005, 03:02 PM
I (respectfully) disagree. I think the points system is childish and lazy, and I think the rules are unclear, childish, and petty. I think "crap" is a perfect example. It's not un-family-friendly, it's just weird.
Who is offended by "crappy?"

I think the point system could work just fine. I don't however think that is has been working all that well so far. I don't want a G rated site either. I got a warning for saying that sometimes people have to take a little @#it. That seems a little childish to me, but I can live with it.

I know there are people that have been treated unfairly at certain times. That said, I'd be willing to bet most of those same people were let slide on many other occations. I think people who continually complain about the site moderation over at RCG ought to walk a mile in a moderator's shoes.

Wiz

easytiger
10-10-2005, 03:15 PM
@#it, well, we all know the word underneath it, if you had said "crappy", who could complain?
I don't know about people being given a walk in the past.
As far as walking a mile in moderators' shoes, well, some of them were/are just great(Chris True comes to mind) and some are not so great. But if they take on the job, the job is not to just zap any and all possible violations and reports. Well...maybe that IS the job over there, now...the job is to MODERATE. Not just punishate.

Mike Wizynajtys
10-10-2005, 03:54 PM
The job ought to be to let people know when they post outside the rules. A point given without loosing ones ability to use the site is simple a warning, not a punishment. It's really no different than the moderator sending you a little message saying tone it down......they will be keeping an eye on you.....and If you continue to do this you'll have your privileges suspended or even removed, as the case may be.

Of course, a warning point isn't as personal as a note from the site moderator, but as a site grows it's not beyond comprehension that sending those personal notes can become quite a burden. It would also become very tiresome if the offenders are the same people over and over again. Like I said, walk a mile in their shoes and then tell us how you feel.

Wiz

admin
10-10-2005, 03:56 PM
Well I got my username changed from "rcuniverse" over there to my real name. I had used rcuniverse originally there for full disclosure and had posted for years that way. All of a sudden when wattflyer sprung up it got changed over. Odd timing or just some selective moderation by the site owner there. I wasn't over there promoting rcu or wattflyer. I was defending myself from a troll over there spewing lie after lie which was allowed to go on.

This username change put me in a spot because people didn't necessarily know who I was. I wasn't allowed to have the rcuniverse username I had for years over there nor could I put anything in my signature to disclose who I was. This is something we require here and on rcu. EVeryone is entitled to know who a poster represents if they are financially involved in the rc industry. If that information isn't disclosed then the next guy who comes on here pushing some product might ONLY be doing it because he makes money on it instead of the fact he really just believes in the product.

Mike Wizynajtys
10-10-2005, 04:05 PM
Mark,

I'd have to say THAT change was a bad one. If they wanted you to do something like that all they had to do was talk to you about it. I'm sure if you used your name along with a the proper identification underneath it, would have served both purposes. It's these types of stories that worry me about RCG.

I for one am glad to see that religion and politics aren't allowed in this forum.....if for no other reason than to see how that works out. I suggested that over there, but the suggestion fell on deaf ears.

Wiz

admin
10-10-2005, 05:23 PM
Mark,


I for one am glad to see that religion and politics aren't allowed in this forum.....if for no other reason than to see how that works out. I suggested that over there, but the suggestion fell on deaf ears.

Wiz

Religion and politics have always been topics that divide people. I wanted WattFlyer to bring people together with something we ALL have in common which is flying radio controlled aircraft. There is enough to disagree with in our hobby alone without the need for those two powder kegs to be discussed!

easytiger
10-10-2005, 06:00 PM
I see the signature thing over there as a real problem. If you are selling something, it should say so in your signature. Period.
The GWS forum over there is LOADED with "helpful average joe modellers" who just HAPPEN to also be GWS dealers.

Mike Wizynajtys
10-10-2005, 06:40 PM
ET

I never ran into all the GWS dealers you've been talking about and I think I've been a member there longer than most. Although, I'll admit not being as invloved in the early years.

Wiz

jrb
10-10-2005, 08:37 PM
Wonder how some folks deal with the very enjoyable music that is heard while on hold when purchasing from New Creations? Also enjoy the tunes I hear when I walk into our warehouse; just not what I listen to in the car.

Seems like some here have allowed themselves to really get caught up in some things in a major way; too bad, its really not good for our small (very) community.

Donít particularly like reading flames back and forth, donít see the purpose; know I wonít see much if any of that elsewhere.

Some have moved for personal reasons, and some wonít; I remain mixed, but donít like the feelings I perceive in what I read here as an anti RCG agenda.

Mike Wizynajtys
10-10-2005, 08:43 PM
Well, there is always good and bad anywhere we go in life. All we can hope to do is our best. We'll never please everyone.


Wiz

admin
10-10-2005, 09:43 PM
Well, there is always good and bad anywhere we go in life. All we can hope to do is our best. We'll never please everyone.


Wiz

new feature...link in quotes to lead back to original

admin
10-10-2005, 09:44 PM
Cool! it works!!! see example in post above. just needed a post to test it on.

Mike Wizynajtys
10-10-2005, 09:49 PM
It does work...and I likes it too. :)

But how did you do it? Is it automatic?

Wiz

Mike Wizynajtys
10-10-2005, 09:51 PM
Cool! it works!!! see example in post above. just needed a post to test it on.


OK. I see. It is automatic. Nice feature!

Dreamer
10-11-2005, 05:35 AM
For what it's worth, when I was a moderator on RCG, we were told that "crap", "crappy", and derivatives thereof weren't to be moderated as they're very common and generally not offensive. Unless things have changed, "crappy" shouldn't have received a point.

Martin

easytiger
10-11-2005, 02:57 PM
And yet he DID receive a point for it.
And...
What kind of person would REPORT somebody for saying "crap?" The Church Lady?
And what kind of moderator would ISSUE a point for "crap"?
It's pretty baffling to me.

Mike Wizynajtys
10-11-2005, 03:50 PM
And yet he DID receive a point for it.
And...
What kind of person would REPORT somebody for saying "crap?" The Church Lady?
And what kind of moderator would ISSUE a point for "crap"?
It's pretty baffling to me.


He recieved a point. So what! How many points does someone need before they loose privledges? I don't recall the number, but it's a good many. All he had to do is be good for awhile and the point goes away. Why make a mountain out of one silly point?

Now, if he'd been issued several points for things as small as that and lost his privledges then that would be a problem.

Wiz

easytiger
10-11-2005, 04:08 PM
"all he has to do is be good for a while..."
But he was not "BAD" in the first place.
Sorry, but it creates a stifling atmosphere of pettiness, of punitive punishment, that many people find uncomfortable, and don't wish to be a part of.

Mike Wizynajtys
10-11-2005, 04:22 PM
Everybody talks about needing to have a thick skin when it comes to being in on-line discussions and this is no different. Again, if a pattern of being mistreated by the moderators is established then there is a problem. This one little instance establishes nothing. As I said above, I was issued a warning for something I found childish, but I didn't bother making a issue of it. Maybe if I were the type to get issued points on a regular basis and this one point put me over the top I'd feel differently, but I'm not in that position......and never will be.

Wiz

easytiger
10-11-2005, 04:44 PM
Actually, you don't know if you are "that type" or not. Sometime, they may change the rules on you, and suddenly, you ARE "that type".
I know the board I signed up for a few years ago and the one that they now are are two different things, and I would NOT have signed up in the first place if it was what it is now.
I think it's pretty "crappy!"

Mike Wizynajtys
10-11-2005, 04:49 PM
Don't I? I think I do.

Enjoy your new found freedom to use that word as much as you like in your on-line discussions about RC airplanes or whatever floats you boat.

Cheers,

Wiz

Turbojoe
10-11-2005, 10:24 PM
Mike,

I'm the one that got the point for saying "crappy". I was mad but I got over it. Then I got a warning for saying "there goes this thread" when SpencerJ stepped into the Mike Molt Tyro thread. That warning is still in effect. It was called an ad hominem personal attack! If you've been on RCG for any length of time you know what havoc that kid wreaked in every thread he invaded until he was finally permanently banned. I wanted to say something MUCH worse but didn't. Now you tell me, did I deserve warnings for either of these infractions? If you don't see these as petty, trivial and downright ridiculous then I give up. In fact I did give up. I found a much better place here at WattFlyer. Once the very few threads I'm still involved in at RCG have run their course I'll be done with that site.

I'm just one of many, many, many other people that have had to deal with the inconsistent and unusual policies the moderators created for their own purposes. No two moderators operated in the same way. You usually know when you are pushing the limits but what are you supposed to do when you get punished for something that wouldn't offend your grandmother?
I honestly couldn't care less about the points. It's the way they are handed out with no way to defend yourself that irks me. I feel like I've been spanked and told to go sit in the corner. I don't appreciate being treated like that and I don't have to put up with it. Again, that's why I'm here now. Not so I can say crap or make personal attacks if I want. It's just a matter of not feeling like I'm on egg shells everytime I come to this site.

Like easytiger said, RCG is a much different place than when I joined back in 2002. I don't like what it's become either.


Joe

Mike Wizynajtys
10-11-2005, 10:42 PM
I honestly couldn't care less about the points. It's the way they are handed out with no way to defend yourself that irks me. I feel like I've been spanked and told to go sit in the corner.

No way to defend yourself?

From the RCG rules:

Appeals Users may appeal their warnings by posting a thread in the Site Suggestions / Complaints forum, which is monitored by the site administrators. Please provide the administrator with a link to the post and a brief explanation of why you are appealing.



I think you are taking the warning system over there too personally. Yeah it's a somewhat automated system, but it's a big site. If you got a little out of line *edit* admit it. If you didn't and it bothers you then make a proper appeal.

Oh well. There is always this site. Hopfully, you'll find it more to your likeing.

Wiz

Turbojoe
10-11-2005, 11:20 PM
You know I just have to ask the question everyone else is thinking. How much is Jim Bourke paying you to troll here? We all have our reasons why we are at WattFlyer and here you are trying to tell us all why we are wrong. Do you expect us to go back on our knees begging forgiveness? If you are so happy at RCG then by all means stay there. I've stayed out of this thread for a few days even though the argument has been over a warning point I got. Then I get my manhood insulted. **edit** :mad:


Joe

ozace
10-12-2005, 02:40 AM
Its been a nice read boys, hope you enjoyed the vent. I have enjoyed the read. I think ,aybe some take this forum stuff to seriously. I go to the forums for assistance and up to date info. I will go where the "product" is. I have noticed a change in rcg too but its not my life just a hobby. Time to move forward. Joe, i am looking forward to some of you build threads, they provided lots of interesting help and info over there, now we can have some here. Same to Buzz.

Turbojoe
10-12-2005, 03:00 AM
Yeah, I don't know why I let these guys get under my skin. Better to just ignore them I guess. Let me be happy here. Let him be happy at RCG. Then we're all happy! :)


Joe

Mike Parsons
10-12-2005, 03:00 AM
I normally would send a PM for parties to edit posts on their own, but since I feel this thread needs a break, I am editing a couple and am closing this thread down for an undetermined amount of time. I will PM users individually.

Thanks,
Mike