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View Full Version : Minwax Polycrylic Water Base clear Finish


E-Challenged
10-03-2005, 12:22 AM
I found it at Ace Hardware, 32 oz can for $15.00. I think it's sold in smaller cans too. I used it so far to stiffen my GWS Zero's ailerons by coating them with the stuff and applying 1/2 oz fiberglass cloth. That made them considerably stiffer. I'll give them another coat to fill the weave. After final sanding, I'll spray everything foam with the stuff, then airbrush on thinned acrylic color coats before I install the hinges and contol surfaces. Polycrylic is almost odorless, thin and slightly milky colored but gets tacky and dries clear fairly quickly. I got the clear satin version. Somebody else suggested using PVA ( thinned white glue) sold as a coating for drywall.
Probably plain white glue thinned for brushing and maybe with some talcum mixed in would seal foam too.:)

WarbirdColors
10-09-2005, 02:14 AM
WarbirdColors offers a satin-clear coating as well. WarbirdColors is a line of water-based, acrylic polyurethane primers and paints formulated for the RC hobbyist. You can also use the primer in lieu of resin for fiberglassing your airplanes. You can see this in practice in the Vance Mosher forum (under designers) on rcscalebuilder.com. Check out Vance's T-28 build thread, where he glassed the entire aircraft using primer instead of resin.

Crash Test Dummy
10-21-2005, 06:40 AM
I'm in the process of glassing a GWS Corsair. Love using the Min Wax products. Follow the link to some pix.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344133&page=35&pp=15&highlight=warthog+

CTD

rcers
10-21-2005, 03:30 PM
Love the stuff, used it on my Spit and will try others....

Thermal
11-11-2005, 06:47 PM
I like using the Minwax Polycrylic too, and as it's water based, clen-up is easy with just soap and water.

Bob

Twmaster
11-11-2005, 07:43 PM
You can also use silkspan instead of fiberglass.

Crash Test Dummy
11-12-2005, 03:22 AM
You can also use silkspan instead of fiberglass.

What is silk span and where do I get it? Maybe at a fabric store.

CTD

roccobro
11-12-2005, 06:41 PM
I've even heard of fellows using old nylon stockings. Just stretch it over a wing, and then apply the WBPU. Trim away excess after just like FG clothe.

Justin

cyclops2
12-06-2005, 04:23 AM
Nylon stockings DO NOT add any strength. They do stretch across dimples and help hide them. The glass cloths are probably heavier but they can be run as strips on the underside of wings as spars to prevent the wing folding up at some higher dive speeds. Nylons do a lot more for a woman.:D

lindart aviation
12-06-2005, 04:28 AM
Get the clear gloss instead of the satin clear...works the same,yet puts a shine on the Delta Ceram coat color paint I use - or any other water based paint.FWIW. art

roccobro
12-06-2005, 04:56 AM
Nylon stockings DO NOT add any strength. They do stretch across dimples and help hide them. The glass cloths are probably heavier but they can be run as strips on the underside of wings as spars to prevent the wing folding up at some higher dive speeds. Nylons do a lot more for a woman.:D

Is there something about the nylon stocking material that makes it less rigid after applying some WBPU or epoxy on it? My .75oz FG clothe is pretty limp and soft (not spar material) before application of WBPU.

I haven't tried nylon's myself so have no experience, but heard others have with good results.

Justin

qban_flyer
12-06-2005, 05:30 AM
Is there something about the nylon stocking material that makes it less rigid after applying some WBPU or epoxy on it? My .75oz FG clothe is pretty limp and soft (not spar material) before application of WBPU.

I haven't tried nylon's myself so have no experience, but heard others have with good results.

Justin

Don't know about you guys, but to me this nylon stocking stuff discussion evoke ideas of years past in my old brain. :o :o :o

rahtware
12-09-2005, 02:06 PM
How much weight is this adding? I'm getting ready to finish a Stryker and have found that no paint (really) sticks to "Z-foam" (what ever the heck that is)...

cyclops2
12-09-2005, 02:25 PM
Often, it is how light a SPRAY coat you put on each time. A brush of any type is a lot more at the end of several coats. Buy, borrow, or join a club, so you can spray thin coats.

qban_flyer
12-09-2005, 02:30 PM
What is silk span and where do I get it? Maybe at a fabric store.

CTD

YOu get silkspan at a local hobby shop. It's very similar to tissue paper and it comes in colors! :)

qban_flyer
12-09-2005, 02:35 PM
How much weight is this adding? I'm getting ready to finish a Stryker and have found that no paint (really) sticks to "Z-foam" (what ever the heck that is)...

I have been using both the Krylon "Fusion" and "Short-Cuts" spray paints on all types of foam for quite sometime now. It does stick to everything, even stuff you don't want it to stick to.

The attached photo is of my latest Blucor FFF project. All colors, except the blue background on the "plane" are Krylon spray paints.

Available at Ace Hardware and other similar stores. :)

rahtware
12-09-2005, 02:43 PM
Often, it is how light a SPRAY coat you put on each time. A brush of any type is a lot more at the end of several coats. Buy, borrow, or join a club, so you can spray thin coats.

I hear you, but am doing that now... Airbrush, light coats, prep with alcohol and lightly sanding with 220 grit. Still comes off when I mask (low tack tape) for the next color.

hoppy
12-09-2005, 04:10 PM
I'm not familiar with Z-foam but lack of adhesion may be due to a dusty or oily surface - try cleaning with alcohol after a light sanding. If it's compatible with acetone, you could try that. Caution, acetone is very flammable. You could also try going over the painted surface with a heat gun to try and "set" the paint. Not too hot of course.:)

If that doesn't work, I guarantee a foam surface with a light coat of 3M77 will accept colored packing tape and give you a crash resistant pretty surface.

OK, I see it's a polyurethane plastic foam.

cyclops2
12-10-2005, 10:29 PM
I have a admission to make. I only build with the blue or pink foam and final sand all surfaces with 120 grit. NO anything on the smooth surfaces. That is what makes the big difference for me. Did not mean to make confusion.

crast test dummie
12-11-2005, 12:08 AM
I have built 4 of these Strykers over the last 1.5 years. The Stryker is made of EPP foam and it is very hard to get paint to stick. I gave up trying to get paint to stick to it. I now fiber glass mine so I can paint it with what ever paint I want. The down side to FG is weight, however I'm runnung a brushless motor and with that set up she is still very fast. Yet she will slow way down too. Fun plane!:D

Follow the link to a thread I started, theres alot of good mods in the thread. Check it out. The featured Stryker was painted with Chrome solvient based paint. I came out pretty good and the FG will make it very strong.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=507

CTD

I hear you, but am doing that now... Airbrush, light coats, prep with alcohol and lightly sanding with 220 grit. Still comes off when I mask (low tack tape) for the next color.

cyclops2
12-11-2005, 06:09 AM
Has anyone ever contacted a manufacturer of EPP? Or called the kit companies? They do know if anything will really hold.
When you do, post the answer for all to know.

timocharis
12-11-2005, 06:41 PM
If paint won't stick to it, it's probably modified in some way. I've used standard spray paint on both wire-cut and saw-cut EPP no problem. I ain't much of an artist, but it does stick fine.


Dave

Here's my latest attempt on a 28" Slofly Mini:

rahtware
12-12-2005, 02:28 PM
CTD

Thanks, great link, have started a list of modifications to make to #2.

Cyclops

I contacted Horizon (mother ship of Parkzone) about this problem and was told:

"Larry,

Thank you for your recent email. There is no surface prep necessary prior to painting. However we recommend a non-aerosol type paint to paint the fuse with. Some types of aerosol paints can eat the foam."

After I explained how this was incorrect I received:

"Larry,

Thank you for your reply email. I stand corrected. I found out through a different source of information that as you had done you would need to at least wipe the surface down with rubbing alcohol to remove the mold release film on the fuse. Acrylic paint may not adhere to that surface as well as something like Testors paints or Top Flight paint. The fuselage is made of a material called "Z-Foam". It is a proprietary foam designed to withstand the extreme characteristics of flight versus other types of styrofoam which are more brittle."

So I gave up on getting help from "the source".

Dave

The paint is sticking, but not good enough to use even low-tack friskit to mask off for graphics. I have also noticed that tape (to cover the servos and wires) tends to start pulling loose after a few flights.

E-Challenged

I apologize for hijacking this thread, but figuring out the answer to this has become an obsession with me.

rahtware
12-12-2005, 02:49 PM
At least it makes it easy to see...

4598

rahtware
12-12-2005, 02:56 PM
So I didn't mask, and just freehand airbrushed an edge.

4599

Yes it has been in the ground... having so much fun I pulled "up" from 20' up, while inverted!

The CF and balsa elverons came after the crash.

rahtware
12-12-2005, 03:52 PM
I have been to the source... Here is one of the most informative threads I have ever read.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161218

cyclops2
12-13-2005, 05:50 AM
Maybe the planes are being pulled out too soon or too late from the molds. That can cause finish problems. I know that, as I once worked in a plastic bag company. It drove us nuts.

qban_flyer
12-13-2005, 05:11 PM
I have been to the source... Here is one of the most informative threads I have ever read.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161218

Very informative thread. I have bookmarked it for future reference, though I am not in the habit of visiting that site often. :)

Jollyroger
12-14-2005, 07:37 PM
I used the same method w/half oz. glass on my GWS BF 109. I also mixed some baby powder in with the Polycrylic to use as a weave filler. People remarked how smooth the final finish was, besides it smell nicer when sanding.
Adds almost no weight.

timocharis
12-14-2005, 08:08 PM
Larry,

For the paint to look that bad, I really suspect they have some weird surface or finish coat on it already. I've never had anything like that happen to my EPP! But who knows?

As to getting tape to stick, it simply must have a substrate of some sort to really do the job. I use white glue, but if your plane tends to get wet a lot, you'll want to try something else ... for such applications I have used left over GWS glue. The idea is to just put a thin layer on the EPP and let it dry. Then the tape will stick to that very nicely. (I hate the traditional 3M spray, and it gives out after a while anyway).

The two best tapes I've used are Blenderm and the "EPP Tape" from slofly.com -- the latter is just a particularly sticky Canadian strapping tape. Excellent where you need heavy support and don't much care about the weight. (It will actually stick to raw EPP pretty well without a substrate, as long as there isn't anything that's trying to pry up the ends -- such as field rash).

Dave

qban_flyer
12-14-2005, 09:01 PM
I used the same method w/half oz. glass on my GWS BF 109. I also mixed some baby powder in with the Polycrylic to use as a weave filler. People remarked how smooth the final finish was, besides it smell nicer when sanding.
Adds almost no weight.

I like your approach to weave filler. I must try Johnson & Johnson Baby Powder just to see how it does. :)

rahtware
12-15-2005, 09:25 AM
I have built 4 of these Strykers over the last 1.5 years. The Stryker is made of EPP foam and it is very hard to get paint to stick. I gave up trying to get paint to stick to it. I now fiber glass mine so I can paint it with what ever paint I want. The down side to FG is weight, however I'm runnung a brushless motor and with that set up she is still very fast. Yet she will slow way down too. Fun plane!:D

Follow the link to a thread I started, theres alot of good mods in the thread. Check it out. The featured Stryker was painted with Chrome solvient based paint. I came out pretty good and the FG will make it very strong.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=507

CTD

CTD I forgot to thank you for the info about the great link. Can't find the lighter glass cloth local so picked up some thin polyester at the fabric shop. Quite strong, but still have time to decide if I am going to use it or order FG cloth.

crast test dummie
12-16-2005, 03:39 AM
CTD I forgot to thank you for the info about the great link. Can't find the lighter glass cloth local so picked up some thin polyester at the fabric shop. Quite strong, but still have time to decide if I am going to use it or order FG cloth.

I'm glad I could provide some useful info for you. Either cloth will work for glassing. I like .05 or .075 glass the best. What mods did you do? Did you use any of the stuff/mods in my thread?

CTD

rahtware
12-16-2005, 06:40 AM
I'm glad I could provide some useful info for you. Either cloth will work for glassing. I like .05 or .075 glass the best. What mods did you do? Did you use any of the stuff/mods in my thread?

CTD
CTD

At this point I am so saturated with ideas I'm not sure where I got them, but I know some of yours (or variations of your ideas) are included.

Being an "Old school" E-pilot where everything I flew was over-weight and under-powered I really resisted adding any extra weight to a Stryker. Now that I have some airtime on #1 I can see that an once of weight isnít going to return me to the "good ol days"...

Planed changes on #2 include:

1. Glassed fuselage, Minwax poly and 3/4oz fabric. I've given up on the fabric I picked up as it came in at 1 1/2 oz / sqyd.

2. Added reinforcement to the wings... I have a piece of carbon fiber cloth (used in boat building). I am able to pull it apart and end up with strands that are about 3/16 wide by 1/64 thick. The strands are longer than the wing is wide and are flexible until glassed. I am thinking of using these instead of adding a rear spar, and fuse rods.

3. Motor / mount upgrade. I have a BP21 on order (and a CC Phoenix 18 ESC) so have to come up with a new mount. I am considering flattening the top of the aft part of the fuselage and using a piece of angle aluminum for the mount. The other Idea I had was to mold one out of carbon fiber and resin, a bit more trouble, but would look cool. Either way I plan on reinforcing the mount area with carbon fiber both top and bottom. Tried that on #1 with great results.

4. Balsa elverons! I HATE THE NEW STOCK HINGES!!! Stiff hinges with a big gap between the control surface and the wing? What were they thinking? With my table saw I can knock out a set in less than an hour that are far superior to the stock ones.

5. I have ordered a complete hatch set, but am trying to figure out a way to mold one out of fabric and resin. Still working on that idea. any way I have already glued the two forward hatch sections together (on #1) and think it saved that hatch when I corkscrewed in. The battery came out with such force that it ripped the posts off the motor, but the hatch survived.

Thatís about all I can think of now, am thinking of starting a thread that shows the build.

Larry

rahtware
12-16-2005, 06:43 AM
Oops, I got the CTDs mixed up!!!

Sorry

rahtware
12-16-2005, 06:50 AM
Wait a second, are you the same guy??? Or am I dealing with split personalities here?:o

Crash Test Dummy
12-16-2005, 06:54 AM
Oops, I got the CTDs mixed up!!!

Sorry

I'm the same CTD, My work computer sucks and I signed up with a new account, so Dummie and Dummy are the same. I have the 2nd gen fuse. I havnt seen the 3rd gen in person yet. I make my own elevons too. The stock ones are fine for stock power, but for BL I feel balsa is best.

CTD

rahtware
12-16-2005, 07:05 AM
CTD

Does this look familiar?

Heres my finished Stryker. The mods are as follows.......

1. Fiber Glass Fuse 2oz. cloth applied with thinned epoxy.
2. Carbon fiber plates top and bottom- support for motor mount.
3. 2-10 inch Fiber Glass rods inserted in the rear fuse. This will stop your motor from ripping off in a less than perfect landing. [I mean puttin her in on her nose :eek: !!!]
4. Steel control rods and clevis's. Like putting a road race supension on her. Handeling is super crisp. Be sure to leave out the slop.
5. Balsa elevons attached W/CA hinges and tape to seal gaps.
6. Small vertical stabs. This thing rolls almost like a micro Jet!!!
7. HS-81 Servos [non metal gear type]
8. Electron 6 receiver- I routed the antenna wire along the wing, I used a razor blade and cut a gusset and pushed the wire inside the foam. The rest hangs off the wing.
9. I also put 2-10 inch rods in the wing tips. My last fuse had wing tips that had a bad bow in them from all the Yankin, Bankin, and Crankin. I hope the FG and rods help.

Thanks for all the great ideas... I have this on my desktop.

rahtware
12-16-2005, 08:54 AM
Here is a closer look at one of my elverons . (coated in poly)

4760

crast test dummie
12-17-2005, 06:06 PM
Wow! Your set up is just like mine, I know you will like it.

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
01-10-2006, 09:36 PM
I orderd a new Stryker fuse the other day, I think the LHS is placing the order today. I will get a look at the 3rd Gen fuse for the 1st time. This build will be very light. I'm not glassing this one, or maybe I will just do the LE and nose section for those unexpected doinks, he he he. It will be a few weeks before I can start her, I'm busy not finding time to build my A-10 project. I'm hoping to get the A-10 started tonight.

CTD

rahtware
01-11-2006, 03:39 AM
CTD

I orderd a new Stryker fuse the other day, I think the LHS is placing the order today. I will get a look at the 3rd Gen fuse for the 1st time. This build will be very light. I'm not glassing this one, or maybe I will just do the LE and nose section for those unexpected doinks, he he he. It will be a few weeks before I can start her, I'm busy not finding time to build my A-10 project. I'm hoping to get the A-10 started tonight.

CTD
Perfect! I'm at the start of a build for a friend who not only says that he doesn't want to upgrade above the stock motor, but swears that he will be using the batteries from his Ventura, 7cell 1100s! I flew #1 on one of those just to see if it could be done... It can, but I definitely want to build his verrrrrry light!

About the only upgrades I will be adding are a carbon fiber reinforcement for the motor mount, a CF rod across the wing and another rod down the length of the fuselage.

And... of course, a set of my homebrew elevrons!

P.S. CTD have you checked your alteregos E-mail?

Crash Test Dummy
01-11-2006, 05:56 AM
No which E-Mail? Did you send me something?

CTD

rahtware
01-11-2006, 08:36 AM
No which E-Mail? Did you send me something?

CTD
I think I sent it to "crast test dummie".

Anyway, all it was about is I would like to send you a set of my elevrons. I'm in the process of building two Strykers and have kinda got off on a side interest of perfecting the elevrons. I would appreciate your input, whether you use them or not.

crast test dummie
01-12-2006, 03:49 AM
I think I sent it to "crast test dummie".

Anyway, all it was about is I would like to send you a set of my elevrons. I'm in the process of building two Strykers and have kinda got off on a side interest of perfecting the elevrons. I would appreciate your input, whether you use them or not.



I got the E-Mail and I sent you one back.

Thank you,
CTD

rahtware
01-12-2006, 11:25 PM
I got the E-Mail and I sent you one back.

Thank you,
CTD
CTD

Got it and sent the elevons today, should reach you next week. Am sending another E-mail to you.

crast test dummie
01-13-2006, 12:07 AM
CTD

Got it and sent the elevons today, should reach you next week. Am sending another E-mail to you.

Larry,

I got the E-Mail, Thanks again. I'm looking forward to receiving the elevons. The LHS juat called 2 seconds ago to tell me my new fuse has arrived!!
It will be my next project. I am currently working on an GWS A-10. Take a look at the thread I started, any and all feed back is welcome.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3545&highlight=warthog

CTD