"Full contact" combat designs and equip [Archive] - WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums

BMJR

10-07-2005, 10:45 PM

Some of us have put together bluecor constructed combat planes of various sizes and means of power and tried to do some combat. What we found was that simply cutting a ribbon wasn't as much fun as trying to take out the other person plane. Also even when we were only trying to cut ones ribbon there was the ocasional mid air.
About all we accomplished was destroying equip and emptying our wallets.
So I'm thinking about building a design that can handle full contact combat with reasonable survivability.
With that in mind weight seems to be a big factor (the plane needs to be light 8oz. or less) also speed (needs to fly relatively slow) We want to use brushless motors of CDROM class or only slightly larger. With the motor/ESC/battery and other equip mounted in a location so that it is protected as much as possible. A pusher with some type of ring or other means of prop protection seems the best choice.
We will be flying over tall grass, so surface impact will not be an issue. We just want something that we can fly into each other with and not do major damage.

Have any of you tried such a combat format or design? Any advise??
Thanks

flypaper 2

10-08-2005, 03:32 AM

Used to fly contact combat with Zaggies. Real cheek tightening freeforalls. About six up at once. Of course they all looked the same. we'd bang into one another and keep on going. All stock speed 400s and nicad or nimh. batts. this was before lipos became popular. Wacked about 6 ins. off the wingtips to make them more maneuverable and a little quicker. Only thing that killed them in the end was when the nose became to punky. These had the EPP LE. Would like to try it again. Maybe a bit smaller, Little screamer size motor. Lipo buried in the wing for protection.

BMJR

10-09-2005, 03:08 AM

I have thought about something like that. I have looked at some of the small wings like the pocket combat wing, mini speed wing, etc.
They all seem a bit fast though. I might try a similar design with a higher lift wing and lower wing loading.

irone

10-10-2005, 01:50 AM

I was just down to BEST in Texas. Six Zagi wings put on a demo. I must say it was pretty lame. They flew around for 15 loooooong minutes and really never made any close passes. The winner was declared by the last man to land after everyone elses battery craped out. For me I will take streamer action any day over that.

Our group uses planes that take 2hrs to build and $3.00 to replace if necessary. Mid-airs happen from time to time but most all are field repairable and the guy is back in action for the next round.

Just wondering if you have found the right equipment to get the desired results. Check out the RULES thread here on Wattflyer they really work if your group adopts them.;)

Just a thought, Wings can carry streamers and make streamer cuts. You guys don't have to have train wrecks to be happy. Put something stickey on the leading edge of your wings. syrup, honey etc. Tape a streamer to each wingtip and make wing cuts.

slam

10-10-2005, 12:20 PM

we flew the mini speed wing for a while with (dare i say it) brushed motors. we would fly a pattern trying to hit each other. they were so small and fast that it was nearly impossible to hit each other. tough though.

i built a wing more like the fix configuration. slow park flying speed. thought that that would be the answer but no body joined in.

would love some insight into wing combat.

slam

debhicks

10-10-2005, 08:06 PM

Some may or may not have seen this. I found it quite entertaining.

They only require a 7 x 4 prop.

http://media.putfile.com/The-Carnage9

john j smith

10-13-2005, 07:17 AM

We have tried indoor combat using GWS P-Sticks. We used streamers in the beginning ,but then decide thatcontact combat was more interesting. Some have put carbon fiber in the wings and built carbon fiber fuse. Planes are very easily repaired on the spot. We fly one night a week in a local middle school gym during the winter. Some also flew Zagi combat a couple of years ago.

Pyrock

10-15-2005, 07:12 AM

I think I have just what you are looking for. Sub 8 oz. and very manueverable. It can fly slow (pancake landings) or fast (40+ mph) and it's a pusher. It also uses a small brushless motor and small prop. Its prop is mounted mid fuse and prop protection can be added. electronics are protected and it's cheap to fix or make a new fuse. Here ya go...

Pyrock

10-15-2005, 07:14 AM

More pics

irone

10-15-2005, 08:11 AM

Pretty cool planes!:cool:
Do you have plans available?

Pyrock

10-15-2005, 01:47 PM

I knew someone was going to ask that. I dont have plans because I make them from a template. I'm also testing an F35 Joint Strike Fighter version. The key is actually in the setup because there's really nothing fancy about the fuse...it's basically a modified flying wing. It's all about weight distribution and power setup. If you notice, everything is pretty much centralized which makes for great handling. People are always amazed because at first, it looks pretty plane jane but when it gets airborne, it's a whole different story. It doesn't need to go fast in order to be maneuverable yet it can fly pretty fast also. Here's my latest varient...

flypaper 2

10-15-2005, 03:43 PM

Pyrock:
If you have a bit of time why not explain a bit about how you go about setting up the weight dist. and power set up. Looks like it might be a Feigo motor.

Pyrock

10-15-2005, 05:28 PM

Pyrock:
If you have a bit of time why not explain a bit about how you go about setting up the weight dist. and power set up. Looks like it might be a Feigo motor.

I'll be glad too...

The setup is as follows:
E-flight Park 370 (4100kv)
Pheonix 10 ESC
HS 55 or 50 servos
GWS 3x2 prop
Kokam 910 (15C) lipo
GWS 4ch rx
CF control rods
Ikarus Shockflyer control horns

The motor is set approx. 4" from the trailing edge and the battery is about 4" from the nose. The CG is about 11" from the nose but the CG hasn't been much of an issue because everything is pretty much in the center of the plane. The servos, rx, and ESC sits right on the CG so that also helps balancing everything in the center. I believe the result is that the plane becomes very agile. Cut the throttle and the plane just floats down on its belly. Pretty interesting. I used 6mm depron and all the parts are glued together using 5 minute epoxy. I used to use hot glue but it's heavier and not as strong. The elevons use internal CA hinges so there no tape. All or most of the edges are tapered and sanded for a smooth edge. I've made so many of them that I can crank out a fuse in about an hour and a half. Another half hour to put the electronics and controls on. If I crash a plane, which usually involves a broken cockpit area, I just graft another piece on with 5 min. epoxy. While testing alternative motors, I've had to graft on a new nose piece 3 time before I gave up on the 4th nose (too much 5 min. epoxy). AUW hovers around 7.5 oz. and flight times are around 10-12 mins of mixed flight. Wingspan is 21". Length is 20".

irone

10-16-2005, 09:21 PM

If no plans, just do me a favor.
put the plane on the floor, stand over it and snap a picture.
Next post the picture and the wingspan.

I have a program that will then scale everything out correctly.

Thanks in advance.................

irone

10-16-2005, 09:30 PM

Cool planes.................
Do you have plans available?
I want to build one for a funfly.

jaguartrax

10-18-2005, 06:33 AM

Pyrock,

If you use a template to make your F-22, you could just show how the parts are layed out on the 19" X 27" sheet of Depron and take a picture from above and others can try thier hand at building it and share the joy with you and post our results and all have a great time together. I believe that is what it's all about here at Wattflyer. Thanks.

jaguartrax

10-18-2005, 06:37 AM

Pyrock,

If you use a template to make your F-22, you could just show how the parts are layed out on the 19" X 27" sheet of Depron and take a picture from above so others can try their hand at building it and share the joy with you and post their results and all have a great time together. I believe that's what it's all about here at Wattflyer. Having fun, learning, and sharing with each other. I'm sure people here have helped you when you asked for it. Have a good one.

inSANe DIEGO

10-21-2005, 12:38 AM

Yeah!!! Please share with us. I've seen numerous posts by you about this plane and they ALL end the same way..."I have this plane...yada yada yada...It's just what you need...yada yada yada...I make them so fast." Someone asks for plans and you say you don't have any. Are you fishing for someone to make an offer? Are they already for sale somewhere? Are you doing the "look what I have and you don't" thing? How about some video of this thing in action. You've advertised it enough, now SHOW us what it can do or how to make it.
Will it really do 40+ mph? With the batt and other components exposed like they are, along with the size of that prop, I find if hard to believe it does better than 25.
Inquiring minds want to know...

Pyrock

10-21-2005, 01:45 AM

sorry guys...I've been busy with the new job. I would love to post a video of it but I dont know how to post it or where to post it. A couple of people have emailed me and I emailed them a couple of short vids and they agree with me that it's definitely a winner. As far as plans, I've never made plans before nor am I an engineer. My brother was going to make plans but he's been busy too with his own business.

...And no, I'm not trying to coax people into making an offer although some have and I may sell cut pieces. This way, if you wish to trace them before you glue them together for future fuselages, that's fine as this is not a "business" for me but keep in mind, it's not as easy to cut as it looks AND Depron is getting more and more expensive. It took me many fuselages and a lot of $$ in Depron to get the cuts just right. I just want to share the wealth. Some people just wish to have someone else get it started by cutting out the pieces rather than going through the trouble to buy the depron, cut it, and figure out how it all comes together.

Anyway, show me how or where to post a vid and I'll be happy to share it. It IS fast and roughly 40 mph considering how fast I past cars in a 35mph speed limit. The internals stay in quite nicely but if you make a hard landing, the battery falls off which is the way i wanted it. I'd rather have the battery come off than crack the fuse.

One more thing...This is NOT my original plan. I copied a friends plane which was pretty "home made" looking and very rough around the edges. I like perfection so I made it differently and mounted the motor entirely different as well as the brushless/lipo setup. Let's just say that I have a ziploc bag full of small brushless motors, batteries, and speed controllers that didn't perform the way I wanted. The setup was inspired by the Concrusher which some of you may know.

BTW, I'm not "Advertising" it. I'm just like a proud father who wants to show off his kid.

irone

10-21-2005, 02:10 AM

Pyrock

10-21-2005, 04:19 AM

There are already some build threads on RCGroups on the F22. Builds the same as those. There are also PDF files there to download if you like. From what I have read about them they will roll climb and dive but won't quite do a loop. They have even tried ailerons tied into the tailerons without great success. I have one laid out from some stuff Pyrock sent to me so I will give it a try.

Irone,
Thats awsome...at least someone is being resourceful. There's just one thing I dont understand. Mine loops WITHOUT hesitation!! It even does upside down loops with just tailerons. I even do multiple consecutive loops. What setups are those other people using? Maybe their tailerons are not as big a mine.(no pun intended) or their throws are not as drastic as mine. I have to admit that mine is over powered and I like my controls squirley. With a fresh Kokam 910, I have unlimited vertical. The only limit is visual sight. Last weekend I did a bunch of Cobra maneuvers but it took me a few tries to get it back to level flight without dipping the nose. I pull up and go full throttle for a split second to bring the nose vertical than cut the throttle to get the nose back down then go full throttle again when the nose gets back level. Sometimes it takes full throttle to keep the nose from dipping. Anyway, I just finished cutting out a fuse for someone who was interested in getting one started.

jaguartrax

10-22-2005, 04:22 AM

Irone,
Thats awsome...at least someone is being resourceful. There's just one thing I dont understand. Mine loops WITHOUT hesitation!! It even does upside down loops with just tailerons. I even do multiple consecutive loops. What setups are those other people using? Maybe their tailerons are not as big a mine.(no pun intended) or their throws are not as drastic as mine. I have to admit that mine is over powered and I like my controls squirley. With a fresh Kokam 910, I have unlimited vertical. The only limit is visual sight. Last weekend I did a bunch of Cobra maneuvers but it took me a few tries to get it back to level flight without dipping the nose. I pull up and go full throttle for a split second to bring the nose vertical than cut the throttle to get the nose back down then go full throttle again when the nose gets back level. Sometimes it takes full throttle to keep the nose from dipping. Anyway, I just finished cutting out a fuse for someone who was interested in getting one started.

Pyrock, Before you glue or get rid of the fuselage you just cut out, you could lay the white Foam parts on a dark color floor or sheet and take a picture of the parts with a digital camera from directly overhead and just attach the picture to your next post. Many people will be able to scale the picture or freehand it and make something very similiar to yours. Then we could post our results etc with you. Does this sound easier than making plans? Of course you can also trace around the parts to paper and mail them to people who are interested. Just a thought. Does the 370 brushless motor seem to be the best performer of all the ones you have tested? Which ones have you tried so far? Have you tried a Medusa 12mm brushless? I have one but do not have a plane to put it on yet.

irone

10-22-2005, 04:35 AM

Crap! I am still having trouble posting to and reading this thread. The only way I can get here is by answering emails from wattflyer. Is anyone else having the same problem?

Pyrock

10-22-2005, 08:05 PM

Pyrock, Before you glue or get rid of the fuselage you just cut out, you could lay the white Foam parts on a dark color floor or sheet and take a picture of the parts with a digital camera from directly overhead and just attach the picture to your next post. Many people will be able to scale the picture or freehand it and make something very similiar to yours. Then we could post our results etc with you. Does this sound easier than making plans? Of course you can also trace around the parts to paper and mail them to people who are interested. Just a thought. Does the 370 brushless motor seem to be the best performer of all the ones you have tested? Which ones have you tried so far? Have you tried a Medusa 12mm brushless? I have one but do not have a plane to put it on yet.

I've tested the following with the 370 (4100kv) being the best:

Park E-FLight 370 (4100kv)
Park E-Flight 370 (3600Kv)
Park E-Flight 400
Fiegao 12mm (5300kv) I think that's the kv
Various small outrunners from Ebay

Want to try:
Mamba 4200 kv
Himax 2015-4100

Here's the pic you requested...

BMJR

10-22-2005, 09:52 PM

G_Countryman

10-30-2005, 02:27 PM

irone

10-30-2005, 06:41 PM

Good info, guys
I like the F-22 style configuration. I think I'll try one a bit smaller in size so I can use a small brushless motors such as a CDROM conversion or an IPS brushless.
Below is a link I found showing views and pictures of the F-22.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-22.htm

Sorry guys......... You won't gain a thing as far as mid-air destruction with this design. It is a pusher design but other than that it will be possibly more fragile than the planes you are already flying.

I like the design and I have built one for testing. I will maiden it later this week and post a pix or two. I have changed it up somewhat from Pyrock's design but basically the same design and WS. Power comes from a J-250 on 7.4V lipo swinging a 4030 prop. After trimmed out I will introduce a 11.1V lipo to it and see how long the motor lasts.

These are still the most rugged for sport Ebat and fly the best.:)
TopGun Combat Planes
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=brodiejf

Zack999

11-07-2005, 05:15 AM

I think the foam planes that cox sells with a 400 motor and a couple mods or throw a depron somthing up or roadkill models with 5 bottels of ca and remember whatever you do you can never have two much power going vertical and don't make it a money event ceep it cheep

G_Countryman

11-07-2005, 01:27 PM

G_Countryman

11-07-2005, 01:36 PM

JKAerotec had/has some 1/12 scale airplanes that make excellent combat models, made of pink foam covered with packing tape, nearly indestructable, and also use coroplast in construction in the critical areas,so they stay in the air after they get hit. More fun. I wish I could get some of the guys interested around here. Once again, too pretty of a plane, and they don't want to dent them up. I think I will sell my house and move out to where you guys live. Check out the Utah flyers group. They make their own wings for around $13 to $15 dollars from EPP, and just have a ball www.utahflyers.com (http://www.utahflyers.com) they have kits for sale too they are flying wings tho, and fly full contact combat, and have videos to prove the resiliency of those things. Made from 1oo% EPP, hard to hurt that stuff.
Gary

irone

11-08-2005, 04:32 AM

We used to fly the coroplast .25 powered combat planes, and had an absolute blast. That is until the ....other guys...started decorating their planes and making them look so good that they would just fly around and stay away from the action, because they didn't want to hurt their pretty little planes.
Gary.

Gary......... I have found that there are two costs or expenses to consider with a combat plane. You mention Spads and JK Aerotech. The first cost is the expense of the plane and that may be bearable by some. The next cost is emotional attachment. Building either of those planes requires many, many hours of work. One just hates to think of tearing up all that time, money and energy. Which is why I developed the TopGun Park Fighters. The TopGuns build out in two hours, scratch emotional attachment. They cost less than $100.00 with all new servos, reciever, chrystal, speed controller, motor and prop. A second or third/fourth etc. airplane will cost $3 to $4 dollars and 2 hours building, scratch $ cost.The only thing that is left is the fun and excitement of E-Combat.

TopGun Park Fighters
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=brodiejf

G_Countryman

11-08-2005, 01:26 PM

You will be hearing from me very very soon. I only hope I can convince my fellow flyers to do the same.
Thank you very much, irone, it's guys like you that make this hobby easier, and more fun.
Keep up the good work.

irone

11-10-2005, 12:08 AM

Pyrock........ Here is my F22. It has the same WS as yours, however many changes were made for a more scale-like plane. I maidened it last Sunday. The J250 on 2S lipos seems to have good power for most general flying it does mush out on loops. With a 3 cell pack it is much faster with good loops and rolls. The J250 on 3 cells 11.1VDC makes the motor and battery run very hot. I may have to go to a BL motor for the best performance.

BMJR

11-14-2005, 04:29 AM

Sorry guys......... You won't gain a thing as far as mid-air destruction with this design. It is a pusher design but other than that it will be possibly more fragile than the planes you are already flying.

I like the design and I have built one for testing. I will maiden it later this week and post a pix or two. I have changed it up somewhat from Pyrock's design but basically the same design and WS. Power comes from a J-250 on 7.4V lipo swinging a 4030 prop. After trimmed out I will introduce a 11.1V lipo to it and see how long the motor lasts.
Looks good.

What I'm looking to do with the mid or pusher mounted motor is avoid prop/esc/motor damage. Not really concerned about airframe damage.
The main problems we were having are
1) lots of broke props from contacting the other plane(s)
2) Bent motor shafts, damaged gear drives, rotors, etc.
3) Lots of damage from the prop blades striking the esc, wires, battery, etc.

Here is a picture of my take on the F-22.
I first powered it with an IPS direct drive turning a 3X3 prop on 2S. It flew good, but was low on power.
It now has a CC mamba turning a 4.5" prop.
Flies great and the elevons were more effective that I expected in terms of roll authority.
I need to go to a slightly larger prop for better power/efficiency and then put some type of guard around the prop to avoid the problems above.

Pyrock

11-14-2005, 04:49 AM

Looks good.

What I'm looking to do with the mid or pusher mounted motor is avoid prop/esc/motor damage. Not really concerned about airframe damage.
The main problems we were having are
1) lots of broke props from contacting the other plane(s)
2) Bent motor shafts, damaged gear drives, rotors, etc.
3) Lots of damage from the prop blades striking the esc, wires, battery, etc.

Here is a picture of my take on the F-22.
I first powered it with an IPS direct drive turning a 3X3 prop on 2S. It flew good, but was low on power.
[/EMAIL]
It now has a CC mamba turning a 4.5" prop.
Flies great and the elevons were more effective that I expected in terms of roll authority.
I need to go to a slightly larger prop for better power/efficiency and then put some type of guard around the prop to avoid the problems above.

You should try my setup:
Park 370 motor (4100kv)
Kokam 3S 910
CC Pheonix 10
GWS 3x3 prop.

If you want to see a video of it buzzing around at 40mph, email me with your email address. I actually have a couple of BlueCore fuses for sale if anyone is intersted
[email]RandyP3of3@yahoo.com (RandyP3of3@yahoo.com)

irone

11-14-2005, 04:54 AM

Looks good.

What I'm looking to do with the mid or pusher mounted motor is avoid prop/esc/motor damage. Not really concerned about airframe damage.
The main problems we were having are
1) lots of broke props from contacting the other plane(s)
2) Bent motor shafts, damaged gear drives, rotors, etc.
3) Lots of damage from the prop blades striking the esc, wires, battery, etc.

Answers:
#1. Use a prop saver and an APC prop. GWS props break easily.
#2. To prevent bent shafts, cut the shaft or shorten it just past the prop saver. Plastic spur gears are subject to damage from dirt. Keep it clean.
#3. Those components should not be left out in the open and subject to damage. The crucible construction of the TopGun planes offer enough protection for the parts mentioned above.
Note: There is no way to completely bullet proof a combat plane but I feel that a plane should last one at least two dozen sorties before reaching retirement age. I usually get a full day in with the loss of only one prop. When I play golf, I loose a half dozen balls.

Pyrock

11-14-2005, 04:54 AM

Here's a pic of what I have...

Oldpilot

11-17-2005, 11:17 AM

HERE is a pic of my bluecore F-22. Built from a $50.00 kit I got from the States. Flys like a demented bumblebee and is VERY resistant to incipient damage.

Sorry about the 'Holder" but it is the only pic I have of this plane.

http://www.oldpilotsairport.com/images/F22raptor_pose1.jpg

gouch

11-17-2005, 01:39 PM

Sorry about the 'Holder" but it is the only pic I have of this plane.

You're sorry? It's the best photo so far :D I wouldn't expect any less from you Patrick!!

Seriously though, it is good news to hear your daughter is recovering after the accident Patrick.

Cheers
Paul

Pyrock

11-17-2005, 03:14 PM

Oldpilot

11-17-2005, 10:33 PM

Thanks Paul. She is getting there ----Slowly.
Here is the Parkzone P-51.

http://www.oldpilotsairport.com/images/pzmustang_jerusha.jpg

jaguartrax

11-19-2005, 11:23 PM

irone

12-07-2005, 05:56 AM

Irone,

I was curious. I noticed that the cutout for the prop is more hourglass shaped than rectanglular. Is this for performance, sound or cosmetic?

I have learned through past experience with this type of model to allow plenty of room for the prop to wander around. The motor can loosen and turn a bit or the prop can get skewed and cut into the plane. It mostly is just insurance and doesn't effect the flight charastics at all.

What you probably didn't pick up on is the camber cut into the leading edge of the wing. This really does something. Makes it faster and flies better. It fools the flat wing into thinking it has an airfoil.:)

Pyrock

12-07-2005, 06:04 AM

[quote=irone;26940
What you probably didn't pick up on is the camber cut into the leading edge of the wing. This really does something. Makes it faster and flies better. It fools the flat wing into thinking it has an airfoil.:)[/quote]

I did the same thing with my F22 but it was mainly for appearance as it is much too small to effect lift characteristics.

irone

12-08-2005, 05:37 AM

Pyrock......... If you make your cut at 20 degrees it truley does provide lift and about 5mph more speed. I first noticed this on the combat planes. Believe it or not. It works!

Pyrock

12-08-2005, 05:41 AM

Pyrock......... If you make your cut at 20 degrees it truley does provide lift and about 5mph more speed. I first noticed this on the combat planes. Believe it or not. It works!

Really? Hey, I have no problem with that! ...And all this time I did it all for looks. Thanks for the info!!

irone

12-08-2005, 05:46 AM

Pyrock.....I just put an A+ on your reputation.

Oldpilot

12-09-2005, 12:39 PM

I HAVE just got an EPP full contact combat CORSAIR Streetfighter from Northeast Sailplanes. To save a lot of my chatter just go to their website http://www.nesail.com Go to "Electrics" in the menue then "Combat". Whole bunch of models both warbirds and jets. Almost indestructable with "breakaway" motor mounts to save the prop and motor in a prang.

BadTroll413

12-18-2005, 08:53 PM

OK....I did a little bit of research into this.....and talked with a brother in law of mine who works with carbon fiber. He belives that if you make this plane from all carbon fiber.....the cost will be a little bit more....but in the end will be far more resilient to crashes and repairs. From what I ahve seen and done with carbon fiber....its not that hard to work with....it just take a little time and learning to deal with it....but it is rock solid and dependable along with being very light. In addition you can drill mounting holes to place brackets in for placement adjustability with out lowering the strength of the fuse. We did this with an experimental A-10 years ago and never had the fuse break. You can make it increadbly thin or thicken it up with a filler layer. To fix it, all you so is sand and reseal in most cases so yer not really adding much if any weight.

Just my 2 cents. I like this plane and am thinking of building it after my A-10 is done.

BadTroll413

12-18-2005, 08:56 PM

sorry forgot to add this......as for cost as I said above...initially it will cost more....but I think you will not ahve to replace as much in the long run so over all the cost should be loswer ove the life of the plane. Another thing to remember....with carbon fiber you can make the edges increadbly sharp. Sharp enough to slice yerself open if you try and catch a moving plane with uneased edges.

jperch

01-03-2006, 09:44 PM

Have you guys seen these?

www.superflyrc.com (http://www.superflyrc.com)

DISCLAIMER ON: SuperFlyRC is a company in Georgetown Texas that makes small electric powered foam delta planes. The proprietor is a friend of mine. Beyond that, I don't receive any compensation for my comments. DISCLAIMER OFF/

I have owned several of these planes for quite some time. They are incredibly durable because of the EPP construction. When something does break, it is generally repairable with a shot of CA. It doesn't even have to be foam safe. The medium sized plane, the SuperFlea, is my favorite. It can be flown indoors or outdoors even in moderate winds. With the props situated above the fuse and to the rear, collisions with people rarely cause an injury (not that I advocate such practice).

The stock power system is brushed but many folks, including me, have modified them for brushless operation. My brushless flea uses a LensRC 17T and I built a 16T 20mm single for a buddy of mine. But I actually like the stock setup best for combat.

A 2s lipo pack is fairly well protected inside of the EPP canopy. They are not really fast and can be flown quite slowly when needed.

Sorry if this sounds too much like a commercial. I just really like these planes for combat. If you find yourself in central Texas, drop me a note. We typically fly indoors twice a month at a local middle school. I will even let you try mine out.

Joe

Oldpilot

01-03-2006, 10:24 PM

I live in Australia and have a Superflea. I can only agree with what JOE says.

Cheers. Patrick. :cool: :) :D

Deepguy

09-08-2006, 11:23 PM

Created a pdf to use:)

I think I have just what you are looking for. Sub 8 oz. and very manueverable. It can fly slow (pancake landings) or fast (40+ mph) and it's a pusher. It also uses a small brushless motor and small prop. Its prop is mounted mid fuse and prop protection can be added. electronics are protected and it's cheap to fix or make a new fuse. Here ya go...

Deepguy

09-08-2006, 11:31 PM

I've tested the following with the 370 (4100kv) being the best:

Park E-FLight 370 (4100kv)
Park E-Flight 370 (3600Kv)
Park E-Flight 400
Fiegao 12mm (5300kv) I think that's the kv
Various small outrunners from Ebay

Want to try:
Mamba 4200 kv
Himax 2015-4100

Here's the pic you requested...

Here is my pdf version for everyone to print:D

hauts

12-20-2006, 10:09 PM

http://www.zipworld.com.au/~dazb/dAzi/dAzi.html

This folded coroplast wing is very durable. Does fly fine and slowly with a speed 400, and has great speed range and is totally aerobatic with a cheap bell-type brushless and some 6x5 - 7x6 prop. The construction technique is easily adopted to less sweep, more plank-like forms too, so you can have even more agility.

It's worth to use 4-5 mm coroplast for the inside doubler and spar, and surround the battery and receiver with foam so they cant move or be crushed. 2-3 mm coro for the wing itself.

I got like 7 planes from 20 euros worth of coroplast, and so far only three have been totally destroyed despite all kinds of crashes (I also learnt to fly with these same planes...)

I suppose you could protect the propeller with duct, but they're really pretty safe back there. Or you could put large enough vertical stabilisers on both sides of the motor/prop to protect them from most hits.

chrono_war02

01-12-2007, 04:00 PM

Have any of you see the products by windriders there all EPP foam, industructable as hell takes anything even powercables ( i tested that) the mini bee they have will be great for this combat 380 motor 15-20 amp ESC with litium batterys i have 2 of them been doing combat with knifes atached every thing all braiage is on the spot repairable. just check them out dont bother with the Eli- Bee its too fast.

check it out
http://www.windrider.com.hk/products/product.cfm?id=9

Epp foam.... the worlds laughing

Airhead

01-12-2007, 06:44 PM

Morning chrono,

Welcome to the site,:)
Those planes look pretty good. big too.

Thats quite an airliner on teh top of the page.
See ya'

mikegabin

01-16-2007, 12:36 AM

Transitioned from gas to electric and really appreciate tjhe difference.

chrono_war02

01-16-2007, 12:19 PM

it might seem a good idea but it ends up costing toomuch and then you dont want to combat it..

TheHobbyGuy

04-22-2007, 03:44 PM

HI guys, I thought you would like this pic. This was my BlueCor wing vs EPP wings. Enjoy the carnage.... :)

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/103/264977480_c58542e1b0_o.jpg

rocket_jim

04-22-2007, 08:12 PM

HI guys, I thought you would like this pic. This was my BlueCor wing vs EPP wings. Enjoy the carnage.... :)

Is there a "before" photo around?

Thanks!
Jim

TheHobbyGuy

04-23-2007, 04:26 AM

Sure..actually I had did a whole article on the build...

http://blog.thehobbyguy.tv/2006/10/09/5-dollar-wing/

The airfoil was invented by Dick Kline and has a step in it - you can read more about how he invented it here:

http://blog.thehobbyguy.tv/2007/03/29/kline-fogleman-origins/

Enjoy!

Bluebird

10-15-2007, 12:50 PM

Our e-club is using a Bluecore knockoff of the .superflyrc.com "Superflea" for full-contact combat. We velcro the gear on the bottom of Delta and use a pair of dbl. thick bluecore runners which act as landing skids/ gear protectors. We use 3/16" dowels along leading edges, hotglued & wrapped w/ colored ducttape. 2 spars are used, one on top abt an inch aft of the prop slot, also ducttaped, and on the bottom just forward of the prop slot. Wood or carbon rod for spars.C.G. at 7" aft of nose point, we use the cheapie TP 2408-21 motor. Fin angle is unimportant but fin Area is, we use GWS DD8060 w/ 2s or DD8040 w/3s. We also use propsavers. With the 22" wingspan you can cut 3 wings and 6 fins from 1 -2'X4' section of fanfold, scraps for runners. No paint, the brightly colored ducttape adds enuff color for definition. They fly GREAT and are extremely TUFF! Wt. is around 10 ozs. RTF. Hope this helpful

rocket_jim

10-15-2007, 02:19 PM

Very helpful info! Thanks!

Have any photos handy?

Jim

Our e-club is using a Bluecore knockoff of the .superflyrc.com "Superflea" for full-contact combat. We velcro the gear on the bottom of Delta and use a pair of dbl. thick bluecore runners which act as landing skids/ gear protectors. We use 3/16" dowels along leading edges, hotglued & wrapped w/ colored ducttape. 2 spars are used, one on top abt an inch aft of the prop slot, also ducttaped, and on the bottom just forward of the prop slot. Wood or carbon rod for spars.C.G. at 7" aft of nose point, we use the cheapie TP 2408-21 motor. Fin angle is unimportant but fin Area is, we use GWS DD8060 w/ 2s or DD8040 w/3s. We also use propsavers. With the 22" wingspan you can cut 3 wings and 6 fins from 1 -2'X4' section of fanfold, scraps for runners. No paint, the brightly colored ducttape adds enuff color for definition. They fly GREAT and are extremely TUFF! Wt. is around 10 ozs. RTF. Hope this helpful

Bluebird

10-16-2007, 04:03 AM

Thanks for the interest Jim. I don't have any pics now but we are planning to post some on our club website next week. It's http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ww2ecombat/ Simply join the group to access "photos". We call them the NoMercyDeltas and will label an album as such. Mike

Buzzsaw

10-16-2007, 03:03 PM

Mike I posted or double posted pictures of our planes on our web site under new photo's also a line up of our WWII planes. I'll try and work up a plan on foam and take a picture of it and post .

Buzzy

Buzzsaw

10-16-2007, 04:12 PM

Very helpful info! Thanks!

Have any photos handy?

Jim

Jim I hope this helps.If you run a 9-7 prop you will have to make the slot a little wider so the prop won't hit and move the fins out a little. This plane has taken more than 20 mid-airs and has hit the ground that many times more.
Buzzy
http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_19263863/d051/__sr_/e842.jpg?grYDMJHByHpOZTul
http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_19263863/8196/__sr_/826a.jpg?grg4zIHB7yLI.vnx
http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_19263863/d051/__sr_/9959.jpg?grII0IHBLG3Os9LU

sawatt

10-16-2007, 10:53 PM

I'm suprised that none of you have seen this: http://www.lightflite.com/
I'm just getting into the hobby, and have watched 6-8 of these flying in a former skating rink doing full contact. A little hot glue works great for repairs

I have no realtionship to the site other than I know the owner.

rocket_jim

10-17-2007, 04:01 AM

Jim I hope this helps.If you run a 9-7 prop you will have to make the slot a little wider so the prop won't hit and move the fins out a little. This plan has taken more than 20 mid-airs and has hit the ground that many times more.
Buzzy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ww2ecombat/spnew

Thanks so very much for pointing me to your Yahoo Group and the great photos!

Jim

Bluebird

10-18-2007, 03:50 PM

Welcome to our Club Site S.W., my "Call Sign" there is Lucky. The Bug looks interesting and EPP is very tough! Tnx for posting that Site.

mike

10-23-2007, 06:04 PM

We have been combating using 10' of thread followed by 20' of 1" wide crape paper. We started out with Great Planes Fun Force planes but they were "disappointing". Now we've gone to the BP Hobbies Hammer planes and they are working out great. They fly good and they are cheap ($19.95). We are using GWS or other cheap outrunner motors. The object is to cut the streamer and not have a midair. We do have some midairs sometimes but the planes being so cheap keeps it fun.
Mike

Bluebird

10-23-2007, 11:23 PM

Mike, glad you're having fun w/ e-combat! If you want to build even cheaper planes that fly excellent, check out the TOPGUN warbirds Mark and John sell at www.2dogrc.com (http://www.2dogrc.com). We buy our fanfold foam from Lowe's Home Improvement stores. That's 50 planes for under $40.00! The P-51 B/C model Mark sells is an excellent flyer, IMO the included CD is worth the price of the kit. We use medium temp hot glue in a low temp glue gun only ,for construction & repairs. Great idea on the thread trailer to your streamer, Mike. BE CAREFUL!! This Combat stuff is ADDICTIVE! Best Wishes and as always, "watch your six!"

aqkhana2002

01-29-2008, 01:17 AM

thanks for you that much great help, but as i m very new person in this fun, need some info, can you tell me what form you use for that and what glue?

cheers

Buzzsaw

01-29-2008, 02:59 AM

thanks for you that much great help, but as i m very new person in this fun, need some info, can you tell me what form you use for that and what glue?

cheers

We build with mostly fan fold we get at lowes and we use low temp. hot melt glue. Maybe someone else can tell you what they use on other foams.
Buzzy:)

Tram

02-02-2008, 07:03 AM

If you guys are looking for a full contact combat design, the Fleas from SuperflyRC.com are hard to beat...

Jeff
www.CommonSenseRC.com

lmopar69

02-02-2008, 05:30 PM

No doubt about that! i love my flys and fleas!

Laine.

hardlock

02-12-2008, 02:44 AM

There was mention of building with CF earlier in the thread.

We duke it out all the time with little to no damage with our Carbon Traveler Bipes.

Here's a sample with a good head to head crash at the end. No damage BTW, these things just plug back together! :tc:

http://www.acesim.com/rc/ctc/CTCs-armory-1s-06.mpg

(Yes, shameless plug for my design) :o

arguspanoptes4

02-27-2008, 12:33 AM

I am Really wanting to get into RC combat aircraft and these F-22's seem to be the coolest/cheapest way to go. what I was wondering is if anyone has tried a ducted fan to protect the motor and reduce prop damage to other planes? This is what I found.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLXA2&P=FR

http://www2.gpmd.com/image/g/gpmg3910.jpg

P.S. This is for a 370 size motor.
P.S.S. If anyone has a suggestion for a cheap startup system (radio,motor,battery, etc.), I have about 100$ (birthday money) drop me a message. Thx!

irone

02-27-2008, 03:10 AM

check out the combat planes and equipment at www.2dogrc.com (http://www.2dogrc.com)
otherwise you will drop over half of your money just on a motor and fan unit.

Where did you get the idea that combat was not about doing damage to the other guys plane......Dauhhh !

arguspanoptes4

02-27-2008, 04:10 AM

???? Man I must have missed that day of class... lol. I guess destruction is quite entertaining. Thanks for the site, it helps a lot.:D

Buzzsaw

02-27-2008, 03:05 PM

If you go to our combat site below: it costs nothing to join and go to members photos you will see a delta we use for full contact with cheap motors.You should be able to build one out of fan fold real cheap.
Buzzy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ww2ecombat/

10-16-07

http://us.a2.yahoofs.com/groups/g_19263863/d051/__sr_/e842.jpg?grAhaxHB1ScTZTul

arguspanoptes4

02-28-2008, 11:11 PM

So if i wanted to make one of these depron/EPP Raptors, would anyone advise putting the motor on the elevators like has been done in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JRybDfCLYc&feature=related
And if it is a good idea could I adapt it to a delta wing (cuz to me there doesn't seem to be drastic leaps in design between these Raptors and a delta)?

Buzzsaw

02-29-2008, 12:31 AM

In our club we use the Deltas for full contact combat. The F-22's & F-16's are for sport flying and mounting an airwars system on them. I have a Mig-29 that Dave sells it fly's pretty good with the thrust vector. I think first you have to decide what you are going to use the plane for. The WWII planes we build,we fly streamer combat with them.
Buzzy

iflyrc1012

03-11-2008, 04:34 AM

hey buzzy where can i get plans for these? i like the raptor!!

iflyrc1012

03-11-2008, 04:35 AM

and what is an airwars system???

Bluebird

03-11-2008, 01:39 PM

The Airwars system is produced by CSM in UK. It is an infrared combat device which consists of a micro processer the size of an average ESC connected to an infrared bulb for the fore end of the combat plane and an infrared sensor for the aft end of the aircraft. The entire device weighs apprx. 1.3 ozs.. It has a range of up to 30 ft.. You "fire" the "gun" w/ an aux. trx. channel and when the infrared beam "hits" the sensor it scores a hit. Programmed into a laptop the device can keep track of up to 30 units at a time. Airwars is available thru www.advantagehobby.com (http://www.advantagehobby.com) . We're new to this form of combat here in Muncie and have only flown a few rounds due to a cold & windy winter. It is absolutely a hoot! I fly w/ Buzzy and he can tell u more about his F-22. I can tell you it is an excellent flying model. If you don't want to scratch build an F-22, www.yardbirdrc.com (http://www.yardbirdrc.com) produces a fantastic lazer cut depron kit that I have built. That and their MiG 29 are both excellent flyers and easy to build. :D

Jasta

03-13-2008, 02:06 PM

Hi guys!
Ill soon be releasing a series of "combat" planes.
The first two are show below. They are Rudder/Elevator/Throttle controls,
are very durable and easily field repaired.
They feature a KF airfoil wing that provides outstanding flight properties.
They are 38-40" Wing Span, and weigh about 12 oz with battery, ready to fly. I believe they will be able to take on many ounces of glue/tape from repairs and still be very flyable.
On top of that, the prototype plane is the most gentle flyer I have ever flown. Better than a Super-cub, no kidding. I can fly it in my front yard; I even handed the sticks to my neighbor and let him fly over our neighborhood. He yanked too hard on his first turn and the plane went into a spinning dive. I just said "let go". He did, and the plane recovered itself in a blink of an eye.
So...please be looking for these in about two weeks...available on my site
www.arrowplanes.com (http://www.arrowplanes.com)
Also I carry pusher profile jets. My highly manueverable Draken would be a good foe for those Raptor/MiG29s in jet combat.

Thanks!

Jasta

Bluebird

03-14-2008, 01:20 AM

Great looking planes Jasta! I've checked your site before prompted by your Draken thread on RCG. I've built gpw's Draken( 20" WS) & Skyray( 23" WS). They fly well but I personally prefer the Skyray for Airwars. It's a great "gun platform". So smooth and stable! We're trying the EMax C2805 w/ 2840kV outrunners and 4-5" APC props . 180+ watts w/ 3s LiPo & 25 A ESC. Will look forward to checking out your ww2 jobs on your Site! I love streamer combat w/ elliptical winged planes. I've done up the Spit, HE-112, Avia B-35 and Tempest. Don't mean to be immodest but they all fly great. Best of luck.:)