West Wings Hawker Hunter

[easytiger]

Anybody built one? About to start in on mine. Takes the 480 fan. Will go brushless/lipoly. Thinking of adding landing gear, I don't like to bungee...

[easytiger]

Started in on it last night. Three hours later, most of the fuselage is done.
I have to say, I have built a lot of balsa kits, this may be the BEST one I have ever done. Parts fit, instructions, plans, engineering, all dynamite.

[easytiger]

I have more pics, but they are too large to post here.
What's the most powerful lipoly-480fan setup? I have a wattage fan already, waste of time to use that?

[termite]

Hey tiger,
Try the Mega EDF 16 or for a little more the 16/20/2
Go 4s with either in the minifan and ya won't be dissapointed!!!

Light set up use the 16/15/2 on 3s

Randy
Dynamo Electrics

[easytiger]

What kind of thrust, what kind of weight?
Not sure which way I want to go, depends on landing gear. I may go light and hand-launch...

[termite]

Thrust, not sure.
Weight, That's up to you!!!!!!

16/15/2 = 450 watts

EDF 16 = 500 to 600 watts

16/20/2 = 600 to around 700

I've got the 16/20/2 Kyosho T-33 Stock fan on 4s - 40oz with PolyQuest
4400N 4s and it allmost flies out of your hand - 735 watts

Randy

[easytiger]

Not sure which way I want to go...super light and hand launch, or maximum power and retracts...or build two of them...

[easytiger]

All framed up, just needs a final sanding.
I played around with retract installations for a while yesterday. Mechanical is no good, no way to make the linkages work. I don't have air retracts small enough. I settled on OK mechanicals actuated by Clippard air cylinders. Overall weight gain would be on the order of 7 ounces, by the time all was said and done, and the mains would have to be flat wheels such as Williams Brothers to fit in the very thin wing...
In the end, I decided it was not worth it.
I do think I will put in maple blocks for fixed gear, so at least I have the option.
Anyway...everything fit together PERFECTLY, engineering was SUPERB, and I have about eight hours in it to get to this point...

[Andy m]

Easytiger,

Your model is looking good!
I am at the covering stage with my Hunter using Poly-C and tissue to keep the weight down.

Power for mine is Mega 16/15/3 and 4s Lipo.

[easytiger]

Looks just like mine! I am going to do the same thing, covering-wise. Sort of wish they had just sheeted the entire wings, I may do that, to do the whole thing in tissue.
How much power from that setup?

[watt_the?!]

I have more pics, but they are too large to post here.
What's the most powerful lipoly-480fan setup? I have a wattage fan already, waste of time to use that?

the wattage fan will be fine.

Tim.

[watt_the?!]

Thrust, not sure.
Weight, That's up to you!!!!!!

16/15/2 = 450 watts

EDF 16 = 500 to 600 watts

16/20/2 = 600 to around 700

I've got the 16/20/2 Kyosho T-33 Stock fan on 4s - 40oz with PolyQuest
4400N 4s and it allmost flies out of your hand - 735 watts

Randy

We added thrust to Luc Dietvorst's FanCalc version 2.0. Not sure if its out yet, but it'll have it when released.

Tim.

[easytiger]

the wattage fan will be fine.

Tim.

The Wattage fan is equivalent to the Wemotec 480? I can put 700 watts into it?

[watt_the?!]

well, itll do the same up to the point where it fails...

dunno if it can absorb 700W, but it is on a par with the minifan at least up to 500W.

Data is available up to 500W that ive found so far.

might have to ask around about what others have put into it. On the efficiency side, its good.

Most of the RBC kits do well on 400W- im sure you know.

Tim.

[easytiger]

Judging by the much more sophisticated design of the Wemotec over the Wattage, I suspect the software is not really giving a real-world figure, the Wattage fan seems awfully primitive. But who knows?

I have built some RBC kits, I like them very much.
This thing is much more sophistacated, though, in plans, instructions, packaging, decals, and, above all, the plastic parts are MUCH better.
I'd build another RBC kit, though, those guys are supercreative and keep cranking them out. That F100 is tempting.

[watt_the?!]

ET, i know our past revolves around this, but im trying to help, not mislead. the data to 500W are test, not software.

from that data it can be extrapolated to 700W and beyond, but i wouldnt post that as i dont know of anyone who has run them that hard.

What would be great is if you put 700W into it, held it over a digi scale, and measured V, I, thrust, and rpm. Then we'll know. my bet is that itll do it well, but as i qualified it, i only know of someone doing 500W and getting great results.

Tim.

[easytiger]

I think for this project, I will stick with the Wemotec, which LOOKS to be more efficient, and the plane is designed around it, and I know it will take the power and not put out anybody's eye...

[easytiger]

Well...I put in fixed removeable gear, and fully sheeting the wing.
The LG blocks only added an ounce and a half, and the sheeting lets me cover the whole bird with just tissue and dope. Tissue on open areas is not great for a jet, too many holes.

[termite]

Any progress Tiger?

Randy

[easytiger]

Absolutely. Ready to paint. I did silkspan and eight coats of clear nitrate dope. Pics later this week.

Did I mention how nice this kit was? Really love it...

[easytiger]

All ready for paint...

[termite]

Lookin' good my friend.

Let me know if I can help with the power system:p

Randy
www.dynamoelectrics.com

[easytiger]

I actually got it painted already, but did not photograph it yet...

I WILL need help with the power system, I have bought none of that stuff for this plane yet, but I will hold out for a few weeks, been spending too much, I want to buy another turbine first....

[easytiger]

Coming along, panel lines are next...

[Andy m]

Easytiger,

Looking really good with that paint job............................I must get mine finished! :o

[easytiger]

Super easy paint job. I used testors spray for the white and the gray, and brush from the bottle for the green.

[Bill G]

Started in on it last night. Three hours later, most of the fuselage is done.
I have to say, I have built a lot of balsa kits, this may be the BEST one I have ever done. Parts fit, instructions, plans, engineering, all dynamite.

Looks like a real busy plan sheet. I keep thinking about building one of these. Was between the Hunter, Vampire, a bunch of Luft '46 stuff, and Mig 21. Chose Mig 21. Looked up a thread you may remember, Easytiger. Was laughing my butt off when I found this one. Saw your comment about the NVA making dummy Migs to draw wasted US bombs. When I first started construction, as a usual no plan scratch build, I went through the "can I make this work?" thought process. Then I saw this thread and said, "Yeah, I can't do that bad".
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150260&highlight=mig21

[easytiger]

Just looked up that thread, it was so long forgotten...yeah, pretty funny, though!
Scratch and kits are such different things...this kit is such a HUGE step up from plans, or drawing your own...I mean, everything FIT, and it was really well engineered. This kit may be a lot of work compared to the arves out there nowadays, but for me, it was a piece of cake, scratching something out is a much harder endeavor.
Speaking of Luftwaffe 46, I am seriously considering the rbcmodels Horten flying wing. Neat kit, a real flying freakshow. Anybody built one?

[U812]

Curtis she looks great man! Good job.

The Morgan I can see back there too! What a beaut!

Steve

[easytiger]

I need to ink in some panel lines, then give it a flat clearcoat.

Very little progress on the morgan lately, I have it buried under many cases of vintage balsa kits I need to get rid of. I really need to do a good cleanup, I am out of room! I also need to get a big ITP Crusader packed up and shipped, it's such a hassle shipping a big plane...

[U812]

Sorry to hear that about the Morgan but it's not going anywhere.

Can't wait to see your bird with the panel lines and weathering. I here they fly very well. Have fun with it.

Steve

[easytiger]

What do you guys think about the HET motors in the 480 fan? They seem to be a very good deal....

[U812]

I hear they work fine but I haven't tried one yet. I'm mostly a Hacker kind of guy.

Steve

[termite]

Hey Curtis
Let me know if ya want an Het motor as I do have them in stock but not on my web site.

Randy

[easytiger]

Oy, this gets complicated! Which hacker would you use?

Three different motors: Mega, Hacker, HET. Which one? What do they do and what do they cost?

Randy, did you ever get the money I sent you for that stealth? Beleive it or not, I found TWO of them....

[U812]

Hacker B40-11s I believe on 10 cells flies this ME P. 1101 with authority.

And what's this about a stealth? Scale I hope.

Steve

[easytiger]

ROG's, no problem? What kind of top speed?
The Stealth is the Walkera one..."Scale" is somewhat relative. I have two on the way, one will be kamdax gas, the other electric...neither has shown up yet, but I only sent out the money last week.

[watt_the?!]

i saw those stealth f117s from walkera a while back...they look pretty good...but the shipping cost from china were huge...is randy stocking them?

[U812]

http://www.sneill.com/me_p_1101/me.wmv

Yep! She does. And mind you this is on 10 CP 1700's.

Steve

[termite]

It's on the way Curtis.

I'd put a Mega 16/20/2 on 4S for a little over 600 watts or if ya want more use the Mega 16/17/2 on 4S for 700 plus :D

Randy
www.dynamoelectrics.com

[easytiger]

Had some time last night, built some landing gear, installed the canopy, hooked up all the control surfaces....

[easytiger]

i saw those stealth f117s from walkera a while back...they look pretty good...but the shipping cost from china were huge...is randy stocking them?

I know! I would not pay what Walkera wanted for freight, I do not beleive it costs as much as they say...
I got one from Randy and one from AWLhobbies, the AWL one arrived today, it's pretty interesting, I will start another thread when I get a chance. I don't think either company has any more, they both were getting rid of unsold stock, and both gave me a very good deal.

[termite]

I'm not stocking the Walkera kits.

Got a few in as samples and didn't like the way they handled things.
(hard to get straight answers)

Randy
Dynamo Electrics

BTW; Lookin' good Curtis

[easytiger]

I know, I was talking to the factory, and for a company that is so large, it's hard to beleive they were so perfectly clueless on the marketing side of things.
They could eat GWS for breakfast if they wanted, but it looks like that won't happen.
A whole bunch of interesting airframes, though...
The 117 is a hoot! I love it! I will do one for electric and one for twin Kamdax. Will shoot some pics soon.
No CG shown anywhere, though.

[easytiger]

It's on the way Curtis.

I'd put a Mega 16/20/2 on 4S for a little over 600 watts or if ya want more use the Mega 16/17/2 on 4S for 700 plus :D

Randy
www.dynamoelectrics.com (http://www.dynamoelectrics.com)

The 16/17/2 sounds good. How much? In stock?

The hacker seems like the best(I had one in a sailplane) but very expensive...

[rccees]

Hi EasyTiger,

Looks very good! I am busy with the hunter as well and I will take some pictures tomorrow. I am still looking for a suitable pilot. Where did you get yours?
By the way, for powering I will use the HET-RC Typhoon EDF 3W,

Cees

[easytiger]

He's from Guillows! They come with the larger Guillows kits, the Dauntless has two of them. I bet Guillows will sell them seperately, too. Previously, this guy saw service as a gunner in a Fairy Swordfish, but I stole him for the Hunter.
I am using this Mega motor Randy recommended, which reminds me, I forgot to send out the money for it...

[Bill G]

The Guillows pilots look very good, when detailed. I think someone should market them separately. The light weight is the desirable feature. There's not much else available in their small approx 1/12 scale either. After doing a few, they're not too bad. I've gotten pretty good at progressively CA gluing the halves together using activator, and immediately sanding the seams with rolled 80 grit paper. Can't do it all in one shot, however.

[easytiger]

I cast one out of West Systems filler and epoxy once, to avoid the seams, it came out well, but heavy. Friend of mine used some other casting resin, or Epoxolite, to cast a pair for a Ju-188, they came out nicely, but, truth be told, unless you are going to really go to town detailing them, the vacuform looks almost as good.

[rccees]

I have looked at the site of Guillows but as far as I can see they do net sell these figures seperately. Guess I have to look further.

[St. Martin]

Nice lookin' jet, Curtis! Try the HET 2W EDF mtr with a PQ-3700XP 3s. I have one in my RT MiG-15. 50A@510W. Nice and light combo. The HET is hotter than the Mega/2. 4750Kv vs 4600Kv.

Steve

[easytiger]

I think you have to call or write them for parts. Never ordered myself, but have heard from not one but several different reliable people that parts are no problem, the company is easy and generous to work with, but they are old-fashioned and not web-oriented. If you stuck a ten dollar bill in the mail with a note, I bet they would do right by you, and you can save the call from the Netherlands...

[rccees]

OK, Good suggestion. I'll try that.

Cees

[St. Martin]

I have looked at the site of Guillows but as far as I can see they do net sell these figures seperately. Guess I have to look further.

cust_service@guillow.com Address Michele. Nice lady. They get 1.50 each. I usually tell her to send me 20bux worth. Decals are 1.50 a sheet, also.

Steve

[easytiger]

Hey, St. Martin, how goes it?

Did you see that Swedish Saab Tunnan kit? Expensive, but right up your alley...

[St. Martin]

Cool brother, I'm real cool.. What SAAB Tunnan? I built Dave Rees SAAB. My first EDF.

Steve

[easytiger]

http://www.mjd.se/

He's got other stuff that will make you drool, too...I know you are a conniseur of all things balsa...
Good to hear you are doing well....

[St. Martin]

Thanks, Curtis. That is a beautiful structure.

Steve

[easytiger]

Kind of lost my motivation on this bird, picked it up again the other day.

Assembled the Minifan 480. Have some concerns, as the fan shroud does not seem perfectly concentric. I have the mega motor in it.

Now all I need is a pack and speed controller. What pack won't cost me an arm and a leg? Is anything but a CC 80 esc a waste of time?

[St. Martin]

I had a few shrouds that had the same problem, Curtis. What Mega? This has a bearing on the packs you will use. And, the size of the ESC. I'm using the HET 2-W(slightly hotter than the 16/15/2, 4,600 VS 4,750 Kv) And the Hyperion lites are the best cells I have used to date. Will run 15C through out the discharge cycle, and only get warm. I have tried two 1500's in 3s2p and the one 3700 in 3s1p.

I'm using a CC 80. If a lower Kv, like the 15/3, a CC 45 will suffice.

Steve

[Bill G]

Kind of lost my motivation on this bird, picked it up again the other day.

Assembled the Minifan 480. Have some concerns, as the fan shroud does not seem perfectly concentric. I have the mega motor in it.

Now all I need is a pack and speed controller. What pack won't cost me an arm and a leg? Is anything but a CC 80 esc a waste of time?

Looks good. I was wondering where it was at. Probably like me, working on 5 things at a time. Eventually, they all get finished. There is one in the last issue of Flying Scale. The surprising part is that the guy claims it few well at 40oz, 30in span, and 200W. I guess it does have a generous wing area for the size.

CC80? Are you planning on 600+ watts or so?

[easytiger]

I had a few shrouds that had the same problem, Curtis. What Mega? This has a bearing on the packs you will use. And, the size of the ESC. I'm using the HET 2-W(slightly hotter than the 16/15/2, 4,600 VS 4,750 Kv) And the Hyperion lites are the best cells I have used to date. Will run 15C through out the discharge cycle, and only get warm. I have tried two 1500's in 3s2p and the one 3700 in 3s1p.

I'm using a CC 80. If a lower Kv, like the 15/3, a CC 45 will suffice.

Steve

It's the really hot one, Randy supplied it, I think 16/15/2? SOmeone needs to provide a totally different system for numbering these stupid motors.
Astro bob was not dumb...the 02, the 05...

I also have the HET 2WEDF. I need a pack, and for that matter, a project, for that one, too. I bought two of them with their controllers, ended up not doign the project.

I belive my mega is 700w plus. I think the HET 45 amp controller will fry..

[termite]

Curtis,
You have the Mega 16/17/2 = 16 = rotor Diameter - 17 = rotor lenght and it is a 2 turn.

You can use your het controler with 3 cells but you'll get much better performace with 4 cells and at least a 60 amp controler.

Randy

[easytiger]

I think I will save the HET setup for something else, don't know what yet. Maybe the K&A F-84 Thunderjet...

In for a penny, in for a pound. I need to get the good controller and batteries for the Hunter. I know we talked before, but I lost track, so what do you recommend? Would be nice if the pack could be split, will make it more versatile, and my charger will only handle 5s anyway...

BillG, what did the guy say about his hunter?

[easytiger]

I had a few shrouds that had the same problem, Curtis. What Mega? This has a bearing on the packs you will use. And, the size of the ESC. I'm using the HET 2-W(slightly hotter than the 16/15/2, 4,600 VS 4,750 Kv) And the Hyperion lites are the best cells I have used to date. Will run 15C through out the discharge cycle, and only get warm. I have tried two 1500's in 3s2p and the one 3700 in 3s1p.

I'm using a CC 80. If a lower Kv, like the 15/3, a CC 45 will suffice.

Steve

Certainly APPEARS that the motor and rotor are mounted quite concentrically, and the problem is the shroud is not properly round. Maybe just run it in anyway and let the rotor tips blend down a bit?

[Bill G]

Certainly APPEARS that the motor and rotor are mounted quite concentrically, and the problem is the shroud is not properly round. Maybe just run it in anyway and let the rotor tips blend down a bit?

Pretty much about it. I would imagine the plastic injection molders have a hell of a time as it is, to get these housings within .030 concentricity. I played around with a piece of aluminumized duct tape shimming on the motor, on my last fan. Got it a bit better, since it was way too far out. There was still enough clearance to still fit the motor in, with a small piece of the tape on it. Those high quality GWS housings, huh. Well, for 10 bucks I can't ask for much either though.

[termite]

Curtis,
Get the Phx60 and 2 TP2100 4S packs and you'll be good to go.

Randy

[easytiger]

Can I run this motor 5s or 6s?

[St. Martin]

What mota? Cut a perfect ply circle. Insert it into the front of the shroud. Immerse it in very hot tap water. Let sit for a few minutes. Drop it into cold water. It will be as perfect as the ply piece.

Steve

[St. Martin]

Can I run this motor 5s or 6s?

/2=3s 3000Mah or larger or 2p smaller

[easytiger]

What mota? Cut a perfect ply circle. Insert it into the front of the shroud. Immerse it in very hot tap water. Let sit for a few minutes. Drop it into cold water. It will be as perfect as the ply piece.

Steve


Neat trick!

I hate to start with an out-of-round system. Better off taking the time to fix it now. 700 watts, after all.
Have messed around with shims and such on many an ICDF...but in this case, I think the motor itself is very much centered, it's the shroud itself...

[St. Martin]

I had one shroud that actually had the mounting ears not perfectly level. Could not fix that one...

[St. Martin]

Besides.. you have been around as long as I have. Remember the white Top-Flite nylon props??

[easytiger]

Curtis,
Get the Phx60 and 2 TP2100 4S packs and you'll be good to go.

Randy

Can't think of a better place to get them than from you. PM me a price. May be a few weeks, I have overspent my hobby budget and then some, fitting out some models for reviews, in the past month. This one, though, has been all but ready to go for quite some time now, not only am I getting bugged for the article, but I very much want to fly it already!
A single one of those TP21004s packs will run one of the HET2w setups very well too, no? That really helps.

[easytiger]

I had one shroud that actually had the mounting ears not perfectly level. Could not fix that one...

But THAT you could shim out...IF you knew it was the problem! A tough one, as the thing does not distort until you screw it down, and then when you remove it, all seems fine! Hate that kind of problem!

Still use TF white nylon props...of course, I boil them before use! My diesels really like those props. But it's been at least a year since I started one!

[termite]

A single one of those TP21004s packs will run one of the HET2w setups very well too, no? That really helps.

NO
Still need 2 packs parellel

Randy

[easytiger]

NO
Still need 2 packs parellel

Randy

Rats. But these two packs paralell will run the HET motor fine?

[termite]

YEP,
Low 40s amp draw with the HET and low 50s with the Mega.

Randy

[Bill G]

I think I will save the HET setup for something else, don't know what yet. Maybe the K&A F-84 Thunderjet...

In for a penny, in for a pound. I need to get the good controller and batteries for the Hunter. I know we talked before, but I lost track, so what do you recommend? Would be nice if the pack could be split, will make it more versatile, and my charger will only handle 5s anyway...

BillG, what did the guy say about his hunter?

Was reading my Flying Scale today, got me thinking about this one. Seems like my Mig project, nice plane, but on hold, due to other projects. I get the Flying Scale at my LHS. They save the 1 month old issues for me for a buck. When there are even more, they put them out for a buck, and I get a few extra for anyone when possible. I have the last few, including the Hunter article. PM me if you want them. Not worried about the couple bucks. Might give you that "pick up" motivation to get back on it.

[easytiger]

This plane is giving me a headache. She is all ready to go, except the fan, which was tested before and after installation, suddenly will not run anymore, and it's a fair bit of surgery to remove and check it...

Sure, I will take the mags!

[Bill G]

This plane is giving me a headache. She is all ready to go, except the fan, which was tested before and after installation, suddenly will not run anymore, and it's a fair bit of surgery to remove and check it...

Sure, I will take the mags!
PM me with address, I'll send them. This mag is quickly becoming my favorite.
I could see the fan change being a pain. The whole design of the mig I'm working on is built around a front load, easily removable fan. I did that after changing a few in planes like you're talking about, that require surgery.
Another scratch build one I did got an access hole, for the rotor adapter allen head set screws. The fan housing was permanently mounted, but the motor shaft was turned down, for a nice slip fit. This way the rotor could be tapped out through the front. Still a bit tricky. A few thousandths comes off the motor shaft real easily, with a fine file against the shaft and the motor running. Makes for slip off rotor adapters.

____________
It seems that I have no signature ablility now. Well, there's still the old clipboard and control-v paste thing. Hey, its like my friend's motto, that never had a driver's license. "If you don't have one, then they can't take it away".:eek:
Looks like I'll just have to keep good ol' MS Word open now, when here.

[easytiger]

The reason its a big deal to get the fan out is it is siliconed in place, as per the instructions, to seal any gaps with the ducting. Were it not for that...
Oh, well, guess I will just have to attack it.
nice yak!

[easytiger]

Turned out to be a bad ESC. Bit the bullet and changed it. Got as far as some taxi tests yesterday...range check was no good with the 12" micro antenna, soldered the full antenna back on, seems okay. Need to get the right battery pack before flying it, it's very tailheavy, needs more weight.
Also, I think I want to run 4s instead of 3. While I think it will take off, it's seems like it could use a little more margin of error...

[Bill G]

The reason its a big deal to get the fan out is it is siliconed in place, as per the instructions, to seal any gaps with the ducting. Were it not for that...
Oh, well, guess I will just have to attack it.
nice yak!

We use silicone quite a bit in contracting. Yeah, its in there good.
I just had to steal an esc from a plane the other day. User fu. When soldering to Deans 2 pins, one of the single protruding connectors is pos, the mating one is NOT positive. The perils of 4:00 AM soldering. I always check polarity anally. Well, never say always, as there's a first time for everything. I was only a $25 CC9 for a low-po outrunner. Good thing.
You should get the Hunter article in the next day or so.

I found this one, if you haven't seen it. Takes the cake, even over the "Wise Word By..." quote. Leafing through mags on low traffic interstates on the way home from work, this type of thing always picks up your mood when you see it. In my computer its saved as GWS_4_Curtis.

No eeks of smileys needed, those will happen as soon as you enlarge it.

[easytiger]

I don't know what happened to my Typhoon ESC, perhaps it was not built with enough careness!

I just went and checked out the GWS forum, after laughing at your post...

Seems like more and more people are waking up to the GWSBS!

My favorite photo, though, was the one that the moderators removed here, of the "enthusiastic" chinese workers lined up for a morning lecture from Lin...

[Bill G]

I don't know what happened to my Typhoon ESC, perhaps it was not built with enough careness!

I just went and checked out the GWS forum, after laughing at your post...

Seems like more and more people are waking up to the GWSBS!

My favorite photo, though, was the one that the moderators removed here, of the "enthusiastic" chinese workers lined up for a morning lecture from Lin...

Things do get removed here. I'm now in the habit of saving things that mysteriousl disappear in Notepad, so they can be retrieved.

I'm working on a FW189 scratch build using some GWS parts. Just for kicks, I'm planning on posting this thread there:

New GWS Scratch Builder's Kit Series
To expand our line, we will now be offering undelivered promised planes in the form of Scratch Builders Kits. In the first kit, the FW189, we give you a DC3 wing, an A10 tail section, 2 ME109 canopies, and 2 P51 canopies. Since we have now hackable cowls available, YOU WILL NEED: 2 Parkzone J3 Cub cowls, requiring some hacking, but you buy fah only 2 dolla fifty cent each. You simply cut off the nacelles, build your own booms, shave down the tail parts, cut up and glue the canopies together for the cocpit section, and Voila!

[easytiger]

Uhu looks good! One of my favorite airplanes!
Ever read the story of the one still in existance, under restoration? Crashed in a russian forest during WWII, the pilot had a two-week walk back to friendly lines. He was reunited with the plane in London a few years ago, he said the throttles were in the same position as when he left them...
It's a major restoration, but it will be done. Very important aircraft type, a very, very successful aircraft, this is the only one that exists...

[Bill G]

Uhu looks good! One of my favorite airplanes!
Ever read the story of the one still in existance, under restoration? Crashed in a russian forest during WWII, the pilot had a two-week walk back to friendly lines. He was reunited with the plane in London a few years ago, he said the throttles were in the same position as when he left them...
It's a major restoration, but it will be done. Very important aircraft type, a very, very successful aircraft, this is the only one that exists...

I read a recent story by the pilot, Lothar Mothes. I believe 2 others died in the crash. As far as I know, he is still alive. Must have been an 18-19 year old pilot. He looked real youn in his Luft military photo.

[Bill G]

Hey Curtis,
Speak of the devil,
Lin just put up a "dream on" thread showing a very rough looking FW189. He has the typical "How about an FW189?" opening.
Well, I guess it was perfect timing. I put up the GWS Scratch Build Series.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528494

[jonnyjetprop]

Searched the web but I could find a US supplier of the kit. Anybody know were I could find one?

John

[easytiger]

I got mine from Peck Polymers, nice ladies there.

Nice UHU, bill, looks great.

I love how I got banned from RCG over picking on Mr. Lin, or rather, calling out Mr. Lin for continuous BS.
Now it seems like there are dozens of guys coming out of the woodwork, understanding they are being had by Lin...too many to ban them all!

Wasn't I right, though?
There ain't no GWS jets coming, nor any P-38...nor is Houng-Wen our "modelling buddy" like so many make him out to be...

Nuthin' wrong with running a bidness, for a profit, but don't stand there and tell me how you just want to do it for fun and be my pal!

Anyway, that company is going down the tubes. Just as well, most of their "great ideas" were swiped from other people anyway.

My Hawker Hunter is ready to fly, aside from the batteries. I did some taxi testing the other day, using 3 TP3s1320. Feels like it will fly, but could use 4s, and it certainly needs weight in the nose, so I have to order up a proper battery for it. I ended up using the HET EDF 16 motor. Beware of taxi tests, though, they are a stupid idea, I accidentally got a foot into the air, with a plane I knew was very tailheavy. Almost killed the thing before even getting to fly it.
I need to order up proper batteries, this project is due for a magazine review...besides, I'd just like to FLY it already....

[Bill G]

It appears goofs has lightened up on being Lin's bodyguards. I guess they had to, as the numbers of people tired of the nonsense are rapidly growing. All things considered, he fully ASKS people to call him on a number of things, in ALL FAIRNESS. As long as its not foul, which is against the rules in all cases, its legal to call him on:
1. His underlivered promised planes
2. Showing 1 day of progress on foamie scratch builds, as if they are some kind of real prototype, in reality built by some Tai buddy of his, probably much like myself in modeling these scratch builds. I can whip out most of those "nonsense appetite wetters" he shows in 1 day or so, and often look much better too.
3. Dissing threads. Now that's just overposting at its worst. They don't want us overposting over there, but he starts a new thread every 5 minutes, only to ditch it forever. Its plain rude to start threads to get peoples interest, and religiously blow them off and NEVER, and I mean NEVER, return to respond to people, after the first 5 minutes or so. I guess that's because he has 5 minutes to respond, before he starts a new "would you guys like this?" thread.
4. "Would you like this?" threads.
Sure, I'd like to win 1 Million dollars (say like Austin Powers) in the lottery, and I don't even play. That said, I still stand at least an equal chance of winning, than the promised planes do of coming out of production.

Bill on taxi testing:
Taxi tests are not just a stupid idea, they're boring. One guy led us following his K&A ME262 thread for months. Posted taxi test posts more numerous and boring than all the reruns of tv's "Taxi". Ended up never getting it flying anyway.

[easytiger]

What's the story with the K&A 262? Has anybody flown one?

[Bill G]

What's the story with the K&A 262? Has anybody flown one?

That's what I'd like to know. I was really thinking of getting one, until that thread. The guy put a lot of effort into it. I think in summary, it needed a boatload of power, and the retracts make it a bit heavy, for the size. I actually bought the same nose retract the guy used. Pretty beffy for that size plane, although there's not that many available. An oz here, an oz there, adds up on that size of plane.
It is really nice, with the glass fuse and nacelles. I'd really think of getting one, if I knew what setup would make it fly well.

[easytiger]

That's what I'd like to know. I was really thinking of getting one, until that thread. The guy put a lot of effort into it. I think in summary, it needed a boatload of power, and the retracts make it a bit heavy, for the size. I actually bought the same nose retract the guy used. Pretty beffy for that size plane, although there's not that many available. An oz here, an oz there, adds up on that size of plane.
It is really nice, with the glass fuse and nacelles. I'd really think of getting one, if I knew what setup would make it fly well.

You hit the nail on the head, though. Glass and foam just weighs. Nothing you can really do about it. Keep that kind of bird basic or you will have a heavyweight beast. Bungee only and often a very limited lifespan. You got it, though, an ounce here, an ounce there...
I have the Flying Styro one inbound, should be within a few weeks, from HL. Different story. It's foam, it's in a totally different weight class, and my retracts only weigh a couple of ounces, all inclusive.

I love that now EAM, of all people, is criticizing Houng-Wen for showing things he will not produce...EAM is the KING of vaporware!

[Bill G]

Everyone is catching on to the foam scratch builds presented as GWS prototypes. The funny part is that many of them aren't even convincing, in recent times. Product development cycle is supposed to be DOCUMENTED. If they were really doing this, and had the CAD files, then some of these successful prototypes could potentially be production. Sure they showed a few cute graphic artist's renderings, but not 3D CAD files from something like Pro-E, that could be exported to CAM.

Its not a new theory, just a different twist on it: With all the really nice looking depron planes out there, and other cleaner, better quality foam moldings than theirs out there, I think they just want to get as much money as they can out of it, and just let the company fade out. New products are an investment. I think they realize they just can't compete with all these new Eflite, Ultrafly, FSK, Alfa, and even the cheap, but good looking Great Planes foamies out there, with their box packaging foam construction. Somehow they think that pushing all this press about vaporware, will keep interest in the line they have.

The FSK 262 should be really nice. If I were to get one, I would be half-tempted to try to keep it feather lite, and use something like EDF40s with 12mm LPS brushless motors. Need to use light foam for centering the smaller EDFs. Sure it would not be a rocket, but at the light weight of the FSK, it would probably fly extremely well, benefitting from the low weight and smaller lipo needed for the LPS brushless motors.

[easytiger]

I can't beleive how many people can't see that these things are hot-wired or carved, which is a lightyear from actual tooling.
As far as the actual expense and time of tooling up a foamie plane, it's no longer $50k and up...it's more like $10k or less. And a month or two.

It's absurd, already. When you look at one of the other Chinese companies are doing(take FeiBao as an example), they are cranking the stuff out at such an incredible rate. Berkeley used to do one kit a month, and their kits were INFINITELY more complex than ANYTHING GWS has ever attempted. They just DID IT. And they did not have any R&D staff of 25, either.

I don't think GWS is going to go under, they will find other markets and other products besides models. There are many more profitable markets anyway.

My 262, well, depends what HL sends me with it for power. We shall see. But I definitely want to put in my warbirds-rc retracts, that's given.

[Bill G]

I don't think GWS is going to go under, they will find other markets and other products besides models. There are many more profitable markets anyway.


I don't think so either. It is obvious that they are just trying to keep name recognition to maximize profits from existing products until they fade out. I'm sure Lin has other business ventures going.

One shame is the turkeys he's blown so much effort into, when he should have done what people asked for. They got blown away in the micro heli market, but better cost-comparable stuff. They have released a few models in the past few years, that I didn't think were that high on anybody's list. They definitely don't listen. What they have going is a good EDF, for the price. I really believe the cool factor of EDF will continue to grow faster than some, including obviously them, think. For GWS, lipo timing couldn't have been better. They have a low cost performing EDF line. Now with lightweight high-power lipos, its possible to make these jets perform. Instead we get Cargotrans, whoopie!

[St. Martin]

Howdy, Bill..

Steve

[easytiger]

Okay! Flown!
First I flew her at floyd bennet off the landing gear in a 30mph headwind. Gained altitude upwind, was in REAL trouble downwind, had to put her down.
Tried her again off the gear at Liberty Bell Jet Ralley, ground handling was no good, constant ground looping, and it was obviously nominal with the gear on anyway.
So, I took the gear off, and we put it on Chris True's bungee just as it was getting dark...
And off she went. Awfully dangerously tailheavy, and the sun set...managed to get her around the patch a bit, and in for a safe landing, but I almost killed the four guys standing behind me on landing, if they had not all had good reflexes, someone would have been hurt. It was a really stupid flight, a case of getthereitis. Dumb.
At any rate, the next day, she bungeed off nicely and flew around for four minutes, now she is noseheavy, I can split the difference and remove half the weight I added, but handling was very nice, and speed was good, maybe 80mph, but I feel like I can use more power, will swap out the HET 16 motor for a Mega I have, should be double the power...

[easytiger]

Great thanks to Uncle Joe Balabon for the flight pics...
And to Chris True for great bungee assistance...

[U812]

Looks great Curtis!

Steve

[Mr. Boogie]

Looks good in the air Curtis.

It was nice meeting you at Liberty Bell.

Al

[easytiger]

Nice meeting YOU, too...you should post a thread about your F-35.

Uncle Joe got a ton of nice flight shots of the Hunter, look for it in the next issue of RCJI.

Some lessons learned with this model...like stick with what the designer intended, a bungee-launched bird.
I really liked this kit, one of the BEST I have built.

[Mr. Boogie]

Nice meeting YOU, too...you should post a thread about your F-35.

Uncle Joe got a ton of nice flight shots of the Hunter, look for it in the next issue of RCJI.

Some lessons learned with this model...like stick with what the designer intended, a bungee-launched bird.
I really liked this kit, one of the BEST I have built.

Curtis,

I've got a thread going at RCG, until I take it out to FBF for a test hop there isn't much new to report. Here's a link (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=405792)for interested parties.

As for your Hunter, it really is a nice looking bird up close and surprisingly light in my opinion.

Looking forward to the review in RCJI.

Al

[easytiger]

It's not heavy for what it is...
Balsa is light, so is the tissue and dope finish.
I am going to install the Mega 700w motor Randy recommended in the first place, I will enjoy it more with more power. Should have listened to Termite Randy!
I just got frustrated with getting the right mounting screws for the Mega, and concerned that the ESC would not hold up, a 45a, but I think it will be okay.

[easytiger]

Wow! Your F-35 is IMPRESSIVE. Very scale!
It's very very similar in dimensions and weight to my Oakdale one, you should have no problem with ROG out at FBF, just give it a decent takeoff roll, and you probably have more power than mine, should perform great. Don't change to stabs and elevators, they look awful compared to full flying stabs, just use a ramp if you want to bungee it.
Oh, and don't use tape to hold in servos! But I guess you found that out already!
Let me know when you are heading out there.

[easytiger]

PS re-think your flying technique...roll into a turn, then use elevator to actually make the turn.

[easytiger]

PS PS...

Use BVM Aeropoxy, AKA Loctite Hysol, to put in your formers. You ARE going to be re-gluing your LG mounts after the first hard landing because you used polyurethane glue. It's not the right call for putting formers into a fuse, in my humble opinion.
Also consider making molds for the flying surfaces. They can be done pretty lightly. Foam cores with balsa sheeting then glassed and finished, they are not really light. A balsa rib and spar wing is lighter. But I'd say the weight difference between properly done composite wings and the foamcore ones is not much, if any.

[Chris True]

Dunno about that, I've used polyurethane glue on formers in glass fuses before and not ever had a problem. Nose gear formers and main wing spar formers, the mains were in the wing. The mains in the wing of the Century Hawk were put back in with polyurethane when I repaired the stock weak setup :) .

Now, I like aeropoxy too and use it a lot. It is very strong and a heck of a lot neater than poly-U foaming all over the place!

[Mr. Boogie]

Let me know when you are heading out there.


Curtis,

I'm planning to go out to Warbirds over Brooklyn on August 26. Don't know if I'll fly the F35 (maybe after the official event is over) but I'll definitely bring it along.

Al

[easytiger]

Dunno about that, I've used polyurethane glue on formers in glass fuses before and not ever had a problem. Nose gear formers and main wing spar formers, the mains were in the wing. The mains in the wing of the Century Hawk were put back in with polyurethane when I repaired the stock weak setup :) .

Now, I like aeropoxy too and use it a lot. It is very strong and a heck of a lot neater than poly-U foaming all over the place!

Don't lissen to this clown. He has only fifteen posts, obviously, he don't know what he is talking about!

See you on the 26th, I should be there.

[Chris True]

Don't lissen to this clown. He has only fifteen posts, obviously, he don't know what he is talking about!




:) Correct, I'm worthless :p

[termite]

Curtis,
If you install the EDF 16 (16/17/2) you may want to use a Phx60 as this motor on 4S will draw in the low 50s.

Randy

[easytiger]

:) Correct, I'm worthless :p

You're invaluable...

Always good to have around if I need a bungee or a Diet Coke!


Randy...will the Mega be pretty doggy on 3s? I have a 3s3p 3100 pack...I could get a second and run 6s...

[termite]

6S is way to much and 3S just isn't enough.

This is a 4S motor!
Randy

[easytiger]

Oh, now I have to SPEND MONEY? Alas!

[termite]

You know who to call :p

Randy

[Mr. Boogie]

See you on the 26th, I should be there.


Curtis,

Are you bringing your F35 along, would love to see it up close.

Al

[easytiger]

That's a good idea, I'll see about bringing her along. Have not flown her in half a year. Does not look as nice as YOURS, though!

[adrenaline]

Uncle Joe got a ton of nice flight shots of the Hunter, look for it in the next issue of RCJI.Some lessons learned with this model...like stick with what the designer intended, a bungee-launched bird.
I really liked this kit, one of the BEST I have built.

Just seen the review.......almost made me want to get my kit out of my pile and start building......

Not surprised your 'mods' caused problems though....I think this model was designed before LiPos and needs nicads to balance the position of the fan/motor unit......

Dammit...of into the loft now to get it out.......!! What a nice looking kit...!!

[easytiger]

Really a SUPER kit.
Yep, my mods with the LG did not help. Much better with the gear off.
Have not seen the review myself, hopefully, my copy is in tomorrow's mail. Just hammering out some articles for the NEXT issue, almost done.
The fan unit could be moved up without too much trouble, and you could end up with a lighter, hand-launchable bird. I did like infilling the wings, though, I much prefer not having the open bays.
West Wings has a Hawk in the works, I will ask when it will be ready. I'm not anxious to take it on right now, though, too many ARF projects to finish, no real time to dig into all-balsa projects right now.

[adrenaline]

Have it in front of me now......three pages.......
My kit now is modded to have wing servos...not sure why they had those original inboard ones....

I don't know....!! When I used to write for the mags you were under strict instructions......'no deviations from the plan/instructions'....I guess things have changed....seems different for jets.....

I was recently building another model for review when I saw some instructions I considered to be very bad. I contacted the importer to be told....'any experienced modeller knows not to do that...and how to modify it.....!!'

My point was that ARTF's put complex models in simple hands......sometimes with simple minds.....

If it wasn't half two in the morning I would be in the loft already...but I don't think the rest of the house will be amused.....

Composites and ARTF's are OK, but 'proper modellers bash em from balsa'........

Bet that'll stir up some debate........!!

[easytiger]

Have it in front of me now......three pages.......
My kit now is modded to have wing servos...not sure why they had those original inboard ones....

I'd think it was so you could use cheaper 9 gram servos...from the days before the really thin cheap ones of today...

I don't know....!! When I used to write for the mags you were under strict instructions......'no deviations from the plan/instructions'...

Who are you? I really don't actually know your name!
They are RIGHT about "no deviations". When I put the LG on, I very purposefully made it removeable. There is one magazine where I have seen builders deviate and essentially ruin the model, then give it a negative review, when the problem was really with the builder. I have seen that a LOT with online reviews, too. You really need to be careful about modifying anything, one common thing is putting in an engine that is way too large, then complaining the plane does not fly well. I messed up one project by converting it from EDF to gas DF power. It did not work out. But, as it turns out, the model has never actually flown with EDF power, either! Only pusher prop power, and it was kind of falsely represented as an EDF model. So, I sort of dodged a bullet...but I will build another soon, I want to see the review work out.


.I guess things have changed....

Not really, for the two mainstream US mags!


seems different for jets.....


RCJI gives me a tremendous amount of leeway. I write whatever I want, they don't ask me to tone anything down or pull any punches. Another factor is I really PREFER writing for them, because you are writing to a more accomplished breed of modeller, you don't need to dumb it down.
They are not afraid to lose an advertiser, and they HAVE done that, by saying something critical about something. It's really a joy that way.


I was recently building another model for review when I saw some instructions I considered to be very bad. I contacted the importer to be told....'any experienced modeller knows not to do that...and how to modify it.....!!'

Yikes! I have had mostly the OPPOSITE. I have had importers and manufacturers change their products, instructions, whatever, in response to my reviews. I like to send them a copy of the review before publication, and give them the chance to remedy any problems...and they have been almost universally responsive. I'd rather the problems get FIXED, and then I can write a more positive review. While slamming products is FUN...like slowing down to watch a car wreck, it's irresistable...there are enough GOOD products for me to review that I would rather just not submit it until the problems are fixed. The editors prefer it that way, too. I have a few projects on hold for publication until they get some problems sorted out. Most of them WILL be sorted out, and we will all be better for it.
What I like is when everybody benefits...when I get to build a good model, when I do a good review of it, when the manufacturer gets good exposure from it, the magazine gets new advertisers and readers from it, and lots of people buy the model and enjoy it. And I have been lucky enough to get enough flow of GOOD products. There is so much nice stuff out there nowadays.

My point was that ARTF's put complex models in simple hands......sometimes with simple minds.....


Absolutely. Pretty scary with some of the turbine jets and giant scale nowadays, too.

If it wasn't half two in the morning I would be in the loft already...but I don't think the rest of the house will be amused.....

How much noise can drying glue make?

Composites and ARTF's are OK, but 'proper modellers bash em from balsa'........

Absolutely. I get nothing like the satisfaction from a composite arf model than from something I did up out of balsa. Apples and oranges. But, these days, my time is not my own, and the balsa projects just take so much more TIME. I also just have my slate so full with arf projects to finish for reviews right now that the idea of starting in on another balsa project is just not that realistic. I want to do a big balsa jet this winter, maybe the Chris Golds Supermarine Swift for MW-44 power. But we shall see.

Bet that'll stir up some debate........

Not with me! I totally agree!

[adrenaline]

because you are writing to a more accomplished breed of modeller, you don't need to dumb it down.

Woah.... I have to disagree......I think the main distinguishing feature of turbine and jet modellers is the size of their chequebooks......

The inference that they are somehow more 'accomplished' is a huge leap......spending many thousands on a model does not make a modeller accomplished...

My experience of jet modellers is that they, as you, seem to think they are more accoplished....a better breed.....where have we heard that before......??

There are accomplished modellers at the pinacle of every discipline within modelling...free flight, control-line.......more so in fact because ARTF is so more prevalent in jet flying

Some of the guys flying sub-micro indoor models...that they have rolled themselves, designed, trimmed are more 'accomplished' than they, me or even you may ever be.......I know a guy who produces an indoor P38, fully moulded with panel lines in depron and flies it indoors.....

A thermal flyer who flys his model for hours using the black-art of thermal lift..can't learn that reading a mag whilst assembling your ARTF.....

Having read all the jet mags for many years I am shocked at the number of 'losses' of aircraft on test flights or early in the flight testing....

Some of these losses have been for ridiculous reasons.......lack of building skill and awareness featuring quite heavily in those reasons.....basic kiddy stuff........dare I even say, common sense......

To cap it all, these problems have then been blamed on poor kitting, poor design, component failure when quite clearly this is just not the case....

I once lost a review model, because of my own stupid fault....you have to have a small ego and broad shoulders to admit that in print so I can see how tempting it would be to lay the blame elsewhere.....BTW I admitted to a stupid mistake........

I will not name examples as that would be wrong, but you write for the mag so I assume you read it.....you will know who and what I mean

And these are just the ones that are written about.........

These are skills that you learn through experience.....

I started modelling an awful lot of years ago flying chuck-gliders and moved on through the various disciplines..... I like to think that this has given me a huge awareness of what works and what doesn't....I know what makes an aircraft fly......I know how to trim one using CofG and surface changes

Perhaps you didn't mean to infer what your words say, perhaps I should have given you the benefit of the doubt.......but then....NO...you, by your own admission are a magazine columnist, you are one of the people the less 'accomplished' .......the unwashed majority.....rely on to write accurately and honestly......

[easytiger]

Woah.... I have to disagree......I think the main distinguishing feature of turbine and jet modellers is the size of their chequebooks......

The inference that they are somehow more 'accomplished' is a huge leap......spending many thousands on a model does not make a modeller accomplished...

Point taken. But at least I don't need to talk to the Slowstick crowd. Generally, most jet modellers(not all!) know what a clevis is!

My experience of jet modellers is that they, as you, seem to think they are more accoplished....a better breed.....where have we heard that before......??

Well...point taken, again. I'm not of that breed, I have seen some real knucklehead jet flyers...but I'm not writing for them. I'm writing for the core user, who has quite a few models under his belt, knows how to set up pneumatic landing gear, etc.

There are accomplished modellers at the pinacle of every discipline within modelling...free flight, control-line......


You are preaching to the choir. I've seen rubber models at the Flying Aces Nats that easily exceeded the accomplishment of 99% of jets.

.more so in fact because ARTF is so more prevalent in jet flying

No, I'd say ARF is prevalent in EVERYTHING except FF. Nowadays, it's even taking over CL! But not just jets, in my opinion.

Some of the guys flying sub-micro indoor models...that they have rolled themselves, designed, trimmed are more 'accomplished' than they, me or even you may ever be.......I know a guy who produces an indoor P38, fully moulded with panel lines in depron and flies it indoors.....

I've flown my share of indoor. My last one was the Falcon Models Cirrus Moth. Maybe somewhere close to the WW Hunter in quality. Beautiful.
Indoors, I see the same range of skills as, say, with jets. I see guys with SlowSticks, for the most part, and then once in a while, you see a Joe Malinchak or something with a really scale plane from his own plans. But, like jets, 80% of the guys are just flying ARFS indoors.



A thermal flyer who flys his model for hours using the black-art of thermal lift..can't learn that reading a mag whilst assembling your ARTF.....

Actually, if they had more affordable ARFs in the Seventies, 90% of the Wanderers, Windwards, and Aquilas would never have been built! Most of the thermal duration guys were building so they could have something to FLY. Remember the huge success of the Hobie Hawk? The only thing that really held it back was cost. Flown an awful lot of thermal duration myself, built most of the old classics. Have a big stack of leftover wings to prove it! But I think ARFs were what everybody always WANTED. Since the beginning of modelling.
That's just an honest assesment of the true situation...coming from a guy who is 60% a builder and 40% a flyer. I think I am in a minority in my preferences.

Having read all the jet mags for many years I am shocked at the number of 'losses' of aircraft on test flights or early in the flight testing....



I think what you are REALLY shocked at is actually the honesty. The other mags have just as many crashes...they just don't TALK about them. I find it totally refreshing to hear the truth, that a model was pranged on the test flight.

Some of these losses have been for ridiculous reasons.......lack of building skill and awareness featuring quite heavily in those reasons.....basic kiddy stuff........dare I even say, common sense......


All the stuff we deal with every day. Me, I am fighting my common sense all the time!


To cap it all, these problems have then been blamed on poor kitting, poor design, component failure when quite clearly this is just not the case....

Now THAT I cannot stomach. That's what I hate. I don't mind making mistakes. I screw up now and then. What I could not bear is screwing up and then blaming somebody else. This is a factor in why the major magazines won't publish negative reviews...because half the time, it's the reviewer's fault. One of the smaller mags, I USED to read it, then I was too disgusted by too many incidents of the reviewer screwing up the model and then blaming someone else. This magazine is printed on pulpy paper, and therefore is construed as some sort of oracle of truth, but the reality is, they are, in a word...unprofessional. Everybody suffers because of it. And the online reviews...same thing. I just went through one, where some knucklehead with only a few planes under his belt slammed a new airplane because he did not know about downthrust and upthrust. It killed me...here I am, arguing online with idiots who don't understand the most basic modelling principles, slamming this plane that has nothing wrong with it at all, except a high idiot-builder-to-weight ratio. I'd say that HALF of the negative reviews I have read can be chalked up to the builder himself.



I once lost a review model, because of my own stupid fault....you have to have a small ego and broad shoulders to admit that in print so I can see how tempting it would be to lay the blame elsewhere.....BTW I admitted to a stupid mistake........


Me, I'm affably proud of screwing up. I could care less. It's a hobby to me, I'm allowed to screw up! I save perfection, or the attempt at perfection, for my real job! You can read that loud and clear in my articles. Many I time I have surprised people by immediately shouting "pilot error!" in lieu of "interference!" Hey, it's only a model. One of hundreds I have built, flown, and crashed. Dozens that I have never finished, dozens that I have messed up. I'll get over it! I don't call it "crashing" anymore. I call it "freeing up a receiver!"

I will not name examples as that would be wrong, but you write for the mag so I assume you read it....

I write for a few...

.you will know who and what I mean

I don't....PM me!

And these are just the ones that are written about.........

So true. There are a ton of models given to reviewers that get screwed up and never published.

These are skills that you learn through experience.....

I started modelling an awful lot of years ago flying chuck-gliders and moved on through the various disciplines..... I like to think that this has given me a huge awareness of what works and what doesn't....I know what makes an aircraft fly......I know how to trim one using CofG and surface changes

You are the guy I am writing for. Not the guy who can't figure out what downthrust is. My point was not that jet modellers are more accomplished than any other type, only that the majority of people who READ RCJI or JetPower have a certain level of accomplishment(I concede...not ALL people who read it do!), and the magazine never asks me to dumb it down to the lowest common denominator. Not being a snob...I just don't ENJOY writing that way. I am currently working on an instruction manual for a plane, that's real WORK for me, to explain where each clevis goes and such. I can do it blindfolded, to have to EXPLAIN it is a pain!

Perhaps you didn't mean to infer what your words say,


Not meant the way you interpreted it, but still an interesting conversation...and I can see how you could interpret that the way you did...no offense taken at all.

perhaps I should have given you the benefit of the doubt.......but then....NO...you, by your own admission are a magazine columnist, you are one of the people the less 'accomplished' .......the unwashed majority.....rely on to write accurately and honestly......

Yup! Shoot me if I ever claim to be an "expert" at anything. "Expert" implies you know it all, and I sure don't. I generally know where I am going, but I am constantly learning and re-learning. That's what keeps it interesting to me. I write accurately and honestly, if I'm going to ***** myself out, it's not going to be over a lousy model airplane. If I'm going to be dishonest, I want to be WHITE COLLAR dishonest. I want Enron type money in exchange for my integrity! Always blows me away when I see somebody bought off for a freaking free model airplane.

Ah, well...

[adrenaline]

And the online reviews...same thing. I just went through one, where some knucklehead with only a few planes under his belt slammed a new airplane because he did not know about downthrust and upthrust.


I know what you mean there...a very recent review, online I hasten to add, features your above described chap testing a slope soaring glider by throwing it off a small bank because he had no idea what slope soaring was about..... how on earth does this happen.....

Fun this isn't it........:) :)

Seriously, seems when you stick your head above the parapet, there is always someone waiting to knock it off.....

The UK mags seem to be going bad ways with just a small group of people writing for all the mags and doing all the reviews....makes me angry to read a re-worded review in several diferent magazines

You talk about writing your instructions, been there and done that too.......but thinking about that makes me think that sometimes we are not the best equiped to review some of the stuff that comes our way as we have a wealth of experience that soemtimes makes us not see the pitfalls that will befall the inexperienced guy....

Anyway, nice to talk to you and swap a few ideas.......suppose this isn't the correct place to be putting the world of 'journalism' to rights

BTW did your Saab Tunnan ever arrive......I really fancied the look of this kit, but have not got around to ordering one yet........

[easytiger]

[quote=adrenaline;107786]I know what you mean there...a very recent review, online I hasten to add, features your above described chap testing a slope soaring glider by throwing it off a small bank because he had no idea what slope soaring was about..... how on earth does this happen.....

I suspect the distributor did not realize that the guy was mostly talk. Which is great...unless he screws up the product, and the talk turns out to be negative! I did not see the slope thing, though...

Fun this isn't it........:) :)


Well...it IS fun! Certainly I don't do it for the MONEY!

Seriously, seems when you stick your head above the parapet, there is always someone waiting to knock it off.....

So true. I usually don't talk about magazine stuff on the online forums, I generally treat them as seperate lives. Too many whackos out there. This thread is an anomaly, I usually keep well under the protection of the fortress walls...

The UK mags seem to be going bad ways with just a small group of people writing for all the mags and doing all the reviews....



Traplet or MAP? I would say the ONLY reason why that happens is because of lack of material. There are only a few guys who can get the articles DONE in a timely fashion. People might be aghast if they knew how many kits went out for review...either from the editor, or directly from the manufacturer...and never got built or finished. Much less written up.
So I am not surprised that you keep hearing the same names...they are the guys who actually get the job done. My take is that they very MUCH want contributions, and are willing to look at anything anybody sends in. The US mags are different...but you see the same names over and over again.
That's fine. People will give the planes to people who have a track record of getting the job done....


makes me angry to read a re-worded review in several diferent magazines

I have not seen that yet. I would never do that. To me, it's just wrong. I'd feel like the magazine owes me, I'm not paying for the same article in two different magazines.

You talk about writing your instructions, been there and done that too.......but thinking about that makes me think that sometimes we are not the best equiped to review some of the stuff that comes our way as we have a wealth of experience that soemtimes makes us not see the pitfalls that will befall the inexperienced guy....


Depends what plane, what article, for me. I'm doing one now that is definitely aimed at beginner/intermediate flyers for a mainstream US mag. What I am writing for THAT is quite different from what I might write for RCJI. Different audience, and I'm trying to be sensitive to that. I am even building two versions of the plane, and one has a pusher prop, which I cannot stand. I just felt like it was appropriate for the audience, that more of them would want the prop version, so I am building and flying one like that, even though as soon as the flight testing and photos are done, I will rip that prop out and put in EDF for myself. In the end, though, I much, much prefer talking to a more experienced crowd. Just more interesting to me.

Anyway, nice to talk to you and swap a few ideas.......suppose this isn't the correct place to be putting the world of 'journalism' to rights

Well...it's easier if you have your eyes open. There are a few magazines that are really thinly disguised product guides. If you go into a review with them UNDERSTANDING what the drill is, things are a lot easier. It's not quite DISHONEST, usually...it's just business. The magazine is a business, supported by advertisers. They sell toy model airplanes. It's not the Christian Science Monitor or the London Times, some oracle of truth, it's an entertaining form of marketing. I have had a very different experience with RCJI...more towards actual "journalism" that advertorial! But I still don't think I will be getting a Pulitzer just yet.

BTW did your Saab Tunnan ever arrive......I really fancied the look of this kit, but have not got around to ordering one yet........


You know what? Either the money did not make it there, or the plane did not make it here! Just sort of forgot about it. I sent cash, like a dummy. will have to follow that up. I could do that this winter, I have an Alfa Sabre I could retire, and put the gear in the Tunnan.

[Bill G]

Woah.... I have to disagree......I think the main distinguishing feature of turbine and jet modellers is the size of their chequebooks......


Got that right! As cool as I think they are, I don't even think about them at all beyond that, due to the checkbook thing.

Bill

[monkamarm2000]

although my 120mm setups these days I could have a turbine! lol


Barry

[easytiger]

although my 120mm setups these days I could have a turbine! lol


Barry

No exaggeration there. You really could.

As an aside...turbine modellers are just like any other modellers...you have a diverse crowd, those who slap together an ARF and can't do it without five guys helping them, and those who carve their own plugs and mold their own fuse and build their own turbine and are just as accomplished as just about ANY modeller in the world. It varies.

[rccees]

Yesterday I had the second flight with my hunter. It flies very well. The first flight ended in a crash due to a malfunctioning servo. The canopy was shattered and one wing broke off. I mailed to westwings and they supplied me with some spare parts free off charge! Very good service.
I have painted and applied decals of the dutch air force (325 squadron, 1959)

see image below.

regards,

Cees

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/e:\fotos\mei 2007\dsc03088.jpg

[Boomerang]

As an aside...turbine modellers are just like any other modellers...you have a diverse crowd, those who slap together an ARF and can't do it without five guys helping them, and those who carve their own plugs and mold their own fuse and build their own turbine and are just as accomplished as just about ANY modeller in the world. It varies.

Thanks for pointing that out ET, SOME turbine flyers do actually use balsa for other things than mixing epoxy. And SOME actually do use batteries for other than an ECU pack! Some are actually fabulous modellers, some, like in every sport, are just well off plonkers!

Woah.... I have to disagree......I think the main distinguishing feature of turbine and jet modellers is the size of their chequebooks......


You don't have to be rich to fly turbines (but it helps!) I know a few control line & free flight (and electric flyers) who probably spend more than me on their toys.

Likewise I also know there are also a few free flight or indoor flyers with lots of the folding stuff but fly the cheap, skill intensive models because, beleive it or not, that's what they like to do. - John.

[elitheiceman]

Does anyone know if the West Wings kit is available in the US?
Thanks.