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Bill G
03-04-2007, 12:05 AM
A bit of interesting trivia is that this plane was flown by James Bond, to Scaramang's island, in The Man With the Golden Gun. Scaramanga blew it up, while demonstrating a to James. James wasn't happy.:D
Also interesing is the Robinson Conversion, where they are installing Corvette V-8 engines in the Seabee. There is a recent replical of a Vietnam Seabee, that has gotten magazine coverage lately.
http://www.v8seabee.com/status.asp

The build started with the 2-view line drawing, and an online build, that had pics which have proved priceless. I even found video yesterday, of that online build, completed and flying off water. That build was from a 1977 RCM plan. Sheer coincidence, a photo of the build was posted in the Public Photo section of AMA's last month mag. Also coincidence that I scaled to 51" span, the same as the RCM plan. The RCM plan is not scale. The online build I've been referencing had mods done to the plan, to make it more scale. Still, the tailboom was off-scale, so thanks to Dave Blum's 2-view line drawing, I got all the correct sections for the tailboom.
http://hangaren.pointclark.net/rchangar/rcseebee.html
http://www.flyingmodels.org/showtime/SeeBee_h.htm

As a scratch build, numerous hours were spent just in developing the plan, and cutting parts, many of them being light ply. For all practical intent and purpose, I started with a 2-view drawing, that had some critical outlines, but no parts drawn into it. For the most part, my basic parts structure resembles the modifed RCM plan build, that I listed above.

At this point, I have the combined main gear and tailwheel retract mechanism working from a single GWS Micro (like HS81) servo. Both the tilt-away tail wheel, and the main gear, all work together. I plan to get a retract servo, but the mechanism removes the strain from the servo in both up and down positions. In the down position, it has a locking knee. In the up position, a progressive helper spring setup can hold it up by itself, without assist from the servo. I need an updated pic.
Flats were filed onto all of the axle shafts and the gear retract shafts also, for positive lock of the set screws, and to hold all the relative positions of the components. Some of the mechanism will not be serviceable when complete, so it better not break.:eek: The indexing flats also make it easy to dissassemble and reassemble the mechanism, without spending time to position all the parts, as this is now done by the indexing flats. The main gear pivot shaft and the gear strut legs can easily be removed and reinstalled on this design. The struts are actually made from Dubro 1/8" axles, with longer shafts made for the struts, since the included axle shafts are not long enough to be used for struts. Fot the wheels, I simply used a collar with a bolt replacing the set screw, for an axle. Aluminum tubing can be placed over the bolt, and the wheel can be drilled a few thousandths larger than the tubing size, for a smooth axle surface. These struts also have indexing flats filed on them, so that they can easily be removed and reassembled, with no time spent on positioning the parts.

The first build pic below shows about 2 or 3 revisions to the retract mechanism, before the current one:eek:, which actually works well now. The second retract pic shows where the linkage connects to the tailwheel torque rod. Still to be designed, is a steerable tailwheel mechanism that will permit the tilt-away retraction. Only some full size Seabees have a steerable tailwheel, and the ones that don't are difficult to track straight on land, with just the rudder force.

The tail feathers were considerable work. They are build using spar construction, to simulate the "ribbed" aluminum sheet, used on the full size plane, once covered with iron-on covering. I plan to simulate these ribs in the wing too.

I'm planning on the blue and white sheme (pic of full-size plane).
Normally I'm not a fan of light blues, but I like it on on this plane, and have the colors in iron-on covering also.

Bill

CHELLIE
03-04-2007, 01:51 AM
Hi BILL :) that really looks like a Challange, Looking great so far, i think I would be afraid to fly it, With all the work and time that goes into a project like that, I will be following you build, take care, Chellie

pd1
03-04-2007, 06:00 PM
Been waiting, glad I finally found this site.
Paul

Bill G
03-04-2007, 07:44 PM
Hi BILL :) that really looks like a Challange, Looking great so far, i think I would be afraid to fly it, With all the work and time that goes into a project like that, I will be following you build, take care, Chellie
I'm afraid to fly a lot of my stuff.:eek:
I usually maiden somewhere between 2 months and 2 years after a build.
Seaplanes, needing water for the real experience, provide yet another excuse.:D

PD1, I wasn't going to bother to continue posting this build, until I checked back there, and found out that there was actually interest in it. I think its better posted over here anyways. This forum here could use some new posts. Over there, if you're not part of the "expert" clique, they could care less about your posts, and in my case, even jump on you.
For some laughs PD1, why don't you copy my pics from here, and post them over there in my other Seabee thread, that I can no longer post in. I'd like to see if they bring up a "technicality" and say that it is not allowed.:D

On the Seabee, I've been experimenting with ideas for the steerable tailwheel. I fabricated the wheel caster mounting block, which attaches to the tailwheel torque rod, using a wheel collar embedded inside it to lock it to a flat spot filed on the torque rod. This part rotates about 90 deg to swing the wheel out of the water. Trying to decide how to make it steer now. So far, the easiest way seems to be a drag link driven by the water rudder, with ball sockets on either end. I wish I could use something that is more inconspicuous, but having the steering mechanism work with a retracting "swing away" tailwheel makes it more difficult.

The real "wrench thrower" is that the wheel should retract from any position in its steerable range. I have some other ideas, but I don't like the idea of having to have the rudder in the centered position, for retraction to work. There's no reason to have to make it like a nosewheel which retracts into a nosebay, where in that case, the wheel must be pointing straight ahead. I wan't to avoid that situation.

Bill

Grasshopper
03-04-2007, 08:10 PM
Bill,

Your work is always amazing to watch. Can't wait to see more pictures of your progress on this one. I also can't imagine why anyone wouldn't think you're an "Expert". You have some of the finest detail work I've seen.

pd1
03-04-2007, 10:30 PM
Bill, the full sized took care of the tailwheel off center, by spring loading the wheel ( to auto center) and the cables, to stretch a little.
If you can use something like a pull pull system, then the cables can "loosen" when the wheel assembly is rotated, with springs to keep a little tension on the cables.

Bill G
03-05-2007, 07:53 AM
Thanks Grasshopper. A lot of the "so called" rc experts hang out at that other place, in the scale forum there. Spend enough time there, and you'll get the drift. If you haven't been published, you're not part of the group. Even the contest they have now, has 2 categories, amatuer and professional. If you haven't been published, your automatically amatuer. I don't buy that, and would not enter under those terms.
Do enough building and you quickly realize that any common fool:eek: can design a balsa airplane. Converting it to a functional rc plane, with all the mechanisms, is the real challenge. Kindof like the Guillows conversions. One experienced builder recently said that he finally figured out why so many folks like Guillows conversions so much. Its because they are often NOT ideal for converting, which makes it a challenge.:D

Bill, the full sized took care of the tailwheel off center, by spring loading the wheel ( to auto center) and the cables, to stretch a little.
If you can use something like a pull pull system, then the cables can "loosen" when the wheel assembly is rotated, with springs to keep a little tension on the cables.

That's pretty much what I've come down to also. I just couldn't stomach the large drag link idea I had. Actually, what I'm thinking now is just a pull cable setup, without even needing "pull-pull", if I use a spring to force the wheel to one direction as a default.

The pull-pull would need springs to loosen when the wheel swings to retract, as you described. I still may end up doing that, but more likely with a single cable and a spring that forces the wheel to one direction, the cable springs would not be needed, since the wheel would simply turn a bit, when it swings to retract.

I still have another thought, which is a take-off of your idea. This would be to use spring wire attached to the steering shaft, to in essence make a control horn. For example, the wire could go through a hole in the shaft, and attach to the cables at the ends of the spring wire. The spring wire would be able to bend a bit, to take care of the cable length change, as the wheel swings to retract.

The one thing that I will probably do now, regardless of what variation of cable method used, is to drive the wheel from the water rudder. Using kevlar pull-pull cable, the setup will be like a "drag link". The cable/s will attach to arm/s coming off the top of the water rudder, at its hingeline. This works well, as it will steer the wheel in the correct direction along with the water rudder. I've used this "drag link" take off method before, to steer tailwheels from the rudder. Its useful where you want to mount the tailwheel a bit forward of the rudder, which can't use the simple method of inserting the steering arm into the rudder, since the steering axis is not in-line with the rudder hingeline. Pretty much the same idea here, except for that the rudder is a water rudder.

The Wheel Caster
I have the wheel caster parts made now. The main pivot block is a section of a nylon wing hold-down block. Embedded into it, is a wheel collar. The wheel collar set screw locks onto a flat spot that is filed onto the torque rod that it mounts on. The flat spot is about 1mm back from the end of the torque rod, so it can't slip off. If you look closeley at the pic, the bottom of this long set screw can be seen in the bottom of the nylon block. It seems to be working well.

The actual mounting caster is a part from an old record player. The steel that the dang thing is made of, is so hard that it will not drill easily. I drilled a hole in one side for the wheel axle, but the other side broke, when I was drilling the hole it it. What I did was to slip oval aluminum tubing over the caster arms, crimped it flat with pliers, and then drilled through the alum for the axle holes, while going through the one good hole that I managed to drill into the wheel caster arm.

Once this part is inserted into the pivot block, I will then press on a threaded linkage shaft onto the wheel caster arm, from the opposite side of the pivot block. Now I will be able to use nuts to attach whatever type of steering arm that I decide to use. For example, a servo control horn is shown in the picture.
These parts are resting on a picture of the tailwheel caster of a full-sized Seabee.

Bill

pd1
03-06-2007, 12:34 AM
Bill, If the tailwheel pivot starts to drive you nuts, you can allways make a well rear of the tailwheel and retract the wheel rearward.
I don't think anyone would ever know the difference, and it should be a lot easier.

Looking at your pictures again reminds me of the first Sea Bee I flew.
The factory gear mechanism is almost identical to yours, just the actuator was ahead of the tranverse tube, and it was under the floor.

You still came up with a system that will do the same, without a hundred engineers taking months to design.

Good going.

The Sea Bee looks great taxiing out of the water and up the ramp.
Yours should look equally as good.

Bill G
03-06-2007, 01:32 AM
Thanks PD1. I bet they did make quite a project out of the original Seabee tailwheel design. As far as I know, it was a modification after the original design.

I know one thing, that it probably did not steer worth crap by just using the air rudder, without a steerable tailwheel. I bent some caster angle on my wheel fork, but could not bend that much, as the steel that the part was made of is diamond hardness.:eek: I didn't want to break it. When I mounted it on the plane, the angle is only a degree or so, since the plane sits down so low at the rear. It eliminated most of the caster angle that I bent into it. If I push the plane, and try to use my hand to simulate side force generated by moving the air rudder, then it would probably need a football field to turn around. :D It will try to turn the caster, but slooowly. Definitely want this steerable tailwheel.

After you told me about the cable operation, I looked at the pic that I printed off of the web, and could barely see the cable on one side. Now it makes more sense. If the cables exit near the mounting shaft location, then the length change will not be that severe. I may do that, as they will be less conspicous, than if they come off of the water rudder. I could run them inside nylon pushrod sheathing, and route the sheathing up high enough in the fuse to be well above the water line, thus no leakage into the plane. My setup may turn out to be very much like the full-scale plane's.

Bill, If the tailwheel pivot starts to drive you nuts, you can allways make a well rear of the tailwheel and retract the wheel rearward.
As far as being nuts as concerned, I must be nuts for making the wheel axle the way that I did, using tiny #0-80 nuts.
It looks nice, but boy was it tedious. I used #0-80 screws, coming in from both forks, that meet in the center of the wheel, to form the axle. These screws actually have nuts on them, tightened against the inside the forks. A short piece of nylon pushrod sheating was installed over the screw threads, as I built the setup, to make a low friction axle. There is small clearance between this axle tubing and the wheel hub ID.

The way I assembled the axles was to install 1 of the 2 screws, and tighten the nut on the inside of the wheel caster fork. Then I loosely inserted the piece of nylon sheathing inside the wheel center, stretched open the fork slightly, and installed the wheel and its inner pushrod sheathing "axle bushing" onto the screw. Now I had to install the 2nd screw from the other side, get the nut inside the fork, and thread it tight.:eek: I did this by CA gluing the side of the nut onto the end of a piece of wire. Now I could get the nut into position, install the screw, and then snap off the piece of wire that was temporarily glued on. I had to perform this gluing operation several times, as the nut kept breaking off of the installation wire, as I was trying to get it into position.

All said, it was worth it, as the screw heads look nice, versus a piece of wire bent over at the ends. Too bad those little screws didn't have hex heads, as they would look really cool (scale) then. Maybe I'll have to glue fake nuts over them.

The setup is shown in the pic below. The wheel mounting pivot block is firmly attached, with its set screw tightening against a flat spot ground onto the mounting rod. The water seal can also be seen, which is a piece of fuel tubing that is stretched over the aluminum tube housing, which extends about 1/4" out of the fuse. A short length of the inner torque rod extends out of the aluminum tube housing, and the fuel tubing diameter is small enough to make a good seal against it.

For an example of a possible steering arm, 2 nuts and a servo control horn are shown. I may not use the servo horn for the steering arm, but it shows the principle. Irregardless, the arm/s will be a lot shorter. Now that I have a threaded steering shaft, I can mount pretty much anything I want onto the top of the steering arm.

BTW,
MikeF, saw you listed as a forum viewer here while I was logged on. Didn't know that you hung out here too.

Bill

pd1
03-06-2007, 12:14 PM
Bill, you're right. The full scale didn't turn worth a darn with the rudder. Most steering on the ground was with brakes.
On a delivery flight, I taxied the full length of Norfolk International, in a strong cross wind.
By the time I got to the ramp, the fire trucks were already there. They saw the smoke from the wheels. The brakes would smoke if used too much.

Make the tailwheel strong, it takes a beating going up and down ramps into and out of the water.

Bill G
03-06-2007, 02:32 PM
http://www.rcfreedom.com/Smileys/default/grin.gif http://www.rcfreedom.com/Smileys/default/shocked.gif only a hacker would figure out that you can use other smiley's here

Bill, you're right. The full scale didn't turn worth a darn with the rudder. Most steering on the ground was with brakes.
On a delivery flight, I taxied the full length of Norfolk International, in a strong cross wind.
By the time I got to the ramp, the fire trucks were already there. They saw the smoke from the wheels. The brakes would smoke if used too much.

Make the tailwheel strong, it takes a beating going up and down ramps into and out of the water.
The tailwheel assembly is definitely strong. The torque rod itself is .072" wire, and only a very short length is exposed. One good thing, is that between the wire torque rod that it mounts on, and the foam wheel, it has a lot of suspension as it is. If you drop the tail, it will bounce like a basketball for a few.:D
As for the brakes, I heard that they floored them when they could no longer keep the plane straight, and were going off the runway. :eek:

The Seabee:

Retracts
The retracts have been working for a while now, but I figured that I'd show a few pics. The first pic shows the test setup energized, with the gear down. In the second pic, I am holding the plane off the table, and the gear is retracted. If you look at the tailwheel, it is retracted by turning counter clockwise about 90 degrees on its mounting shaft. This is why the steering arm at the top is the only thing that can be seen in the left side view pic.

Steerable/Retractabe Tailwheel
I also have the tailwheel steering mechanism working well now. I need an updated pic, but the third pic below shows the principle. I have "cleaned up" the mechanism a bit, and it is now re-assembled with a pull cable. The cable exits a bit above where the mounting torque rod exits the fuse. The pull cable is inside nylon cable sheathing, and the sheathing is tied off at a high point in the fuse, before routing into the main cabin, so that it is above the water level and won't let water in. Gotta think about that stuff here.:D

To make the pull cable work, I fabricated a recoil spring, which is mounted under the steering arm at the top. Its in there, but is tough to see in the pic. One end of the spring is connected to the steering arm, and the other is locked against the tailwheel mounting block, and hooks around the torqe rod. This spring holds the wheel in a left turn, and the pull cable, attached to the steering servo in the cabin, will move in and out to activate the steering. At center postion, the spring does not require much force from the servo, so it will not overwork it. Even at full right turn, it is not very severe, as it does not require a strong spring force to hold the wheel to the default left turn position.

Tailwheel Recoil Spring
The recoil spring did take a while to fabricate. It has a bit more that 2 turns, wound from the points where it connects to the wheel mounting block and the steering arm. It took a while to get the spring rate correct, the end positions at the correct orientation relative to each other, and to make the coils neatly wound and tight together, as there is little space between the steering arm and the steering block. I could have moved the steering arm upward with another base nut, but I want the spring to be as concealed as possible.

Steering Arm
A bit of trivia is that the splined center of the steering arm, an HS81 servo control horn, fits just about perfectly on the steering shaft base nut. It would only move a degree or so, when set in place. This made it easy to get the steering spring in place and the steering arm in the correct position, before snugging it firmly with the top nut and lockwasher.

Updates, New stuff completed this evening:
The last 3 pics show the the tailwheel steering pull cable sheathing in place. It is tied off high in the fuse, before routing toward the cabin, so that it is above the water level. Looking closely, the pull string can be seen loosely threaded through the steering arm. Testing it by hand seems to work well. Also in the fourth pic below, is a small silver painted box that will slip over the torque rod and glue to the wheel pivot block, between the fuse and the tailwheel pivot block. This box was fabbed from thin plastic, and will simulate the I-beam type casting, that is part of the tailwheel pivot block on the full size plane. Note the arrow that points to the area that it will insert into, in the small detail picture of the full size plane's tailwheel.

Water Rudder
I stole my aluminum resting pad for my Monokote iron, to make the rudder from.:D I found something else to use for the Monokote iron stand.
A paper template of the rudder was first contact glued to the aluminum plane, and the reinforcing ribs were stamped into the rudder, using a hammer and a thin spatula with a strong blade. It worked well. In the last pic, the completed rudder can be seen against a full size example.

Rudder Linkage Plan
I plan to use the same pre-loaded spring setup for the water rudder, and set the spring tension so that the default postion is in the opposite direction. At the servo horn, these 2 springs would cancel each other out, when the water rudder and tailwheel are in center position. http://www.rcfreedom.com/Smileys/default/cool.gif
In this case, the opposite side of the servo horn would be used for the water rudder cable connection, and the logic would be reversed, with the rudder set to at "normally right". The servo would "let out" the cable, and the spring would move the rudder.


Bill

Bill G
03-08-2007, 06:35 AM
http://www.rcfreedom.com/Smileys/default/cool.gifhttp://www.rcfreedom.com/Smileys/default/grin.gif http://www.rcfreedom.com/Smileys/default/shocked.gif

Water Rudder

Finished the water rudder setup today. I ended up using a Sullivan Gold Cable, which is capable of driving the rudder in both directions, versus the lighter pull-only idea, with a one-directional spring. I thought about using the light pull cable used in pull-pull setups, and then ruled it out, since I don't want something that has a chance of breaking, where I can't get in there to fix it.:eek: I still mounted the spring on the rudder linkage in the fuse, so that it would cancel the force of the one-directional spring on the tailwheel, to remove the load from the rudder servo.

The first pic shows the aluminum tubing that will slide over the rudder. The tubing has a slit through most of its length, that will slide over the rudder. Two slits about 1/4" deep were cut in the top of the rudder, for the portion of the aluminum tubing that was not slit, to slide into.
The rudder steering shaft has a notch filed into it, that makes a "half-shaft" of the portion which the rudder will mount against. This part slides into the aluminum tube at the top of the rudder, and has an #0-80 screw and nut to secure it in place. It can be seen in the pic, protruding through the fuse.

The aluminum tube is secured to the rudder with thick CA, after it is slid in place. The second pic shows the gluing procedure. First, a wire was inserted to block the mounting hole, in the tab that was cut into the top of the rudder. This is done so that when the CA is injected in the fastening hole of the aluminum tubing, it will only fill on one side of the rudder. An arrow points to this hole, in the pic. The other side has to be kept open, for the "half shaft" portion of the steering shaft to slide into.

The third pic shows the mounting hole being re-drilled, since one side of the alum tube is filled with CA, and needs to have the mounting hole opened again. The last step is to inject CA into the bottom openings of the tubing, on either side of the rudder, so that the tubing does not separate from it, as the tube was slit to slide over the rudder. I also scuffed the rudder surface under the sandpaper, so that the CA would grip. Only a small amount of thick CA was used, so that it would not run toward the other end, and clog the area that needs to slide over the steering shaft mount.

In the last pic, the rudder is in place, with the mounting screw partially inserted. Not in the pic, is a servo control horn that is attached to the top of the steering shaft, used for the cable attachment.

Bill

Bill G
03-09-2007, 06:38 AM
http://www.rcfreedom.com/Smileys/default/shocked.gif

Finally just about finished with the tailwheel/water rudder area of this plane. In the first pic, the completed linkage for the water rudder can be seen. I attached a servo horn to the top of the rudder shaft, for the linkage point, which will also be used a the take-off point for the air rudder linkage, eliminating the need for another pushrod that would need to route all the way to the cabin. This also saves weight, as this plane has a tendency to get tail heavy, which is why I used a nylon Dubro linkage connector, instead of the heavier Sullivan Gold connectors, used to drive the retract linkage.

One major difference between this build, and the 1977 Model Airlane News plan build which I am referencing, is that my tailboom is scale. The existing MAN plan has a simplified boom, where the bottom hull corners are rounded, and the smooth "step" in the boom of the real airplane, at the tailwheel, is squared off. They did this for simplicity. I like the smooth blended transition of the full-scale Seabee, in this area of the boom, and also having the correct shape for the formers. I think squaring this transition really hacks this plane, since it has such nice flowing curves. It does add more work, however, to make it scale.

The most difficult part of making a scale boom is the smooth "step" transition at the tailwheel. It would be tedious http://www.rcfreedom.com/Smileys/default/shocked.gif to attempt to frame this curved area with formers and stringers and then strip plank, so I sculpted filler parts for this area, using soft, light balsa (see second pic). The sheeting will blend into these filler pieces, overlapping it at the edges of these parts.

Bill

newcomer
03-09-2007, 01:35 PM
you're a real craftsman, Bill. love to see a real builder at work.
david

pd1
03-09-2007, 02:33 PM
Bill, It's looking real good.

Have you given any thought to the spray rails?
On the two Sea Bees I flew, they were both modified with the wide spray rails, to keep water off the prop.

Also any thought of a variable pitch prop, with reverse?

The Sea Bee was the first airplane I flew that had reverse.
It was very helpfull in the water.

It also freaked a few linemen out to see the monster back up into a parking spot on land.

Bill G
03-09-2007, 04:04 PM
Bill, It's looking real good.

Have you given any thought to the spray rails?
On the two Sea Bees I flew, they were both modified with the wide spray rails, to keep water off the prop.

Also any thought of a variable pitch prop, with reverse?

The Sea Bee was the first airplane I flew that had reverse.
It was very helpfull in the water.

It also freaked a few linemen out to see the monster back up into a parking spot on land.

Newcomer, I like your work too. If you haven't recognized me, I'm the guy that's into the Luft '46 stuff like you build, at that other place.

The variable prop would be cool. A few $$ too, but cool. I guess there are some stronger ones out there, than the light duty ones that I've seen for foamies. I wonder if folks have used reversing rc car/boat variable speed controllers, and reversed the rotation? The prop is not as good that way, but will still reverse thrust.
I am adding lights though.:D Already have the tail light wired in the rudder.

If I do the spray rails, I'd probably want to build them into the structure before I sheet it, so they won't break off easily. The idea would be to have them notched to insert into the cabin, and glue off a bit inside the walls, so they can't just "snap" off the outer hull. I probably won't add them, but if I do, I'll probably do it as described. Maybe the model will not spray as much as the full size, since the surface tension and other properties of water will not be "scaled" like the model.:D

I was working on the front hull formers a bit last night. I shaped the bottoms to have a curve, like the full-scale plane. This curved front hull will help displace water when it first gets going, before the hull gets out of the water. It also looks better and more scale-like this way. I'll have to look again at the video links I posted before, and see how the water displaces with that plane. Its the same size as mine, and his hull panels are completely flat, with no curve in front.

Bill

pd1
03-09-2007, 08:10 PM
Bill, Here's a repost of exerpts from the factory manual from the other site.
Let me know if there is any other parts of the owner's manual you would like to see.

Bill G
03-10-2007, 06:04 AM
Bill, Here's a repost of exerpts from the factory manual from the other site.
Let me know if there is any other parts of the owner's manual you would like to see.
When I built the front dash support in my plane, I wasn't paying attention as much as I should have been, in the sense that it goes all the way across. I should have put it in lower. I still may mod it. I noticed that there seems to be an old version of the instrument panel, that looks different, as it goes all the way across.
http://www.stinsonflyer.com/prop/irc3-01.jpg
I may do mine that way, since it would be easier to do now. I still may go with the newer version that you showed, as I could still incorporate it into the plane, since the top of it is higher than the window line, where my support is located.

Build progress
I added the front hull section using basswood sheet. I thought about just filling the area with soft balsa and shaping, but the sheeting is actually easier in the sense that you get the right shape with little work, if its done right. I added a few strips of sqare stock wood to the hull formers, to provide a good gluing surface the the lower most portion of these sheets. This part was glued first, and then the sheets were dampened and stretched along the hull curves and CA glued in place. By having the sheets firmly glued to the former first, I was able to stretch the correct compound curves into them. They actually curve in 2 directions, along with the bottom hull profile, and are concave to displace water. Good thing that we have activator, to speed these bonds up.

Before the sheets were added, the curved frames were added, that are seen in the first pic. I've found that if you soak the 1/8" spruce square stock, you can eventually shape it like a soft pretzel. In the picture of the full-size Seabee below the model, this curved seam in the hull panels can be seen. The idea here is to get the hull as close to scale as possible. The models I've seen so far have not included all the curves to scale accuraccy. The remainder of the front area will probably be sculped from balsa.

On the scale, everything so far is 13oz, which is actually better than I thought it would be, at this point. The lightening holes do not remove as much weight as expected, but the main point was to keep the tail light, which was also one of the reasons not to sheet the tail feathers. The tail lightening is important, since every gram of excess tailweight requires about 2 grams in the nose, to maintain the CG setting.

Bill

pd1
03-10-2007, 12:33 PM
Bill, The picture on the link you have is not a Sea Bee.

It's either a Spencer Aircar, or an Italian Riviera.
http://www.pilotfriend.com/experimental/acft6/37.htm

The Sea Bee landing gear rotated rearward, there was no well for the gear.
The picture shows a wheel well.
Also the Sea Bee had the wing strut ahead of the gear. There is no strut in that picture, I vote it's a Riviera.
http://www.aeromods.com/riviera/

Also, the Sea Bee had a third door in the front for docking, if the panel went across as depicted, you couldn't use the door.

You build looks good, and I bet the lightening holes pay off dividens, it's easier to remove one gram of weight from one hundred parts than one hundred grams from one part.

Paul

Bill G
03-11-2007, 08:07 AM
Bill, The picture on the link you have is not a Sea Bee.

It's either a Spencer Aircar, or an Italian Riviera.
http://www.pilotfriend.com/experimental/acft6/37.htm

The Sea Bee landing gear rotated rearward, there was no well for the gear.
The picture shows a wheel well.
Also the Sea Bee had the wing strut ahead of the gear. There is no strut in that picture, I vote it's a Riviera.
http://www.aeromods.com/riviera/

Also, the Sea Bee had a third door in the front for docking, if the panel went across as depicted, you couldn't use the door.

You build looks good, and I bet the lightening holes pay off dividens, it's easier to remove one gram of weight from one hundred parts than one hundred grams from one part.

Paul
Guess I didn't look that closely.:eek: I looked at the link for a second or 2, and then saved it. I guess I'll be modelling the standard instrument panel then.:D Should still look pretty good, as the top portion with the rounded corners will rise above my existing dash support, and the front of it will be much larger than the small cross tie that goes across the cabin in the same location. I could take out my dash reinforcements and move them down, but I prefer to keep them where they are.

On the lightening, I'm starting a new principle of removing weight from most ALL parts that I can. I may be minor, but weight is weight, and it all adds up. I heard about a redesign of one of the Mazda 262 prototypes around 1990. To lighten the car, the project manager specified a 10% weight reduction of all the parts. Realistically, I'm sure it wasn't every part, but the idea still stands. Keep every part as light as possible. Remember, it has to defy gravity.:eek:


Seabee Tailboom Trussing and Stringing
Most of the tail boom stringers are in place now. Looking carfully at the pic, trusswork can be seen also. The trusswork basically makes it like a bridge, in design. Fuse formers offer little strength longitudinally. One poor solution would be to make the formers out of heavy ply. A much more efficient soulution is to add lightweight trusswork. Another benefit is that stress concentrations can be relocated. Notice the longer truss braces at the beginning of the boom, coming off of the cabin. They tie in to the center keel aft of the point where the boom connects to the fuse. This disributes the stress concentration at the cabin-boom joint, where the stresses are the highest and it is most likely to break.
To get an idea of the potential strength added by trussing, look at the MIT students that put incredible loads on model bridges made of balsa. :eek:

The plane will be sheeted with 1/32" sheeting, which was one of the first decisions made on this plane. Using 1/16" sheeting would make it a tank! http://www.rcfreedom.com/Smileys/default/shocked.gif I'd rather add a few more stringers to support the thinner sheeting and still come out lighter, than to get away with adding fewer stringers by using thicker sheeting. 1/32" sheeting is a lot easier to work with also. I'm not a strip planker. I like working with larger sheets, and am a big fan of sheeting. I sheet everything. It adds challenge to building micro flyers too.http://www.rcfreedom.com/Smileys/default/grin.gif I've already worked out most of the sheeting scheme. Shouldn't be too bad.

Hitting the CG looks right on target at this point, now that I have most of the tail boom weight in place so that I can check it. I taped the tail feathers in place and put a TP 3s-2100PL in front, and I am actually about 2" in front of where the CG needs to be. When the motor is installed later, toward the rear of the wing, it should then be close. While I realize that the CG can still change a bit as the build progresses, I'm at the point now where I believe that I will not need much ballast, if any, to mount the motor on the rear half of the wing. I want to avoid using a driveshaft, so that the motor can be mounted on the front of the wing, but will still do so, if it saves from needing substantial nose ballast.

Bill

pd1
03-11-2007, 01:52 PM
Bill, The Riviera is a nice looking plane, eh?

Looking at your structure so far,I think your Sea Bee will be plenty strong.

Are you planning to give the structure a coat of sealant of some kind, before sheeting?
I used to fly a lot of models off water, the planes would magically gain weight as the day progressed.

Covering with 1/32 sheet, my hats off to you.
I can't work with that thin stuff anymore.
I've had a lot of nerve damage in my hands, and now I'm always breaking pieces off my planes before they are finished, and that's with the heavy stuff.

Why does it seem on this forum that so few people actually leave comments?
I think a lot of people are reading these threads, but they just don't ask or comment.
Just wondering why, this plane is so different that I thought people would be flooding you with questions.

Grasshopper
03-11-2007, 04:11 PM
Bill, The Riviera is a nice looking plane, eh?

Looking at your structure so far,I think your Sea Bee will be plenty strong.

Are you planning to give the structure a coat of sealant of some kind, before sheeting?
I used to fly a lot of models off water, the planes would magically gain weight as the day progressed.

Covering with 1/32 sheet, my hats off to you.
I can't work with that thin stuff anymore.
I've had a lot of nerve damage in my hands, and now I'm always breaking pieces off my planes before they are finished, and that's with the heavy stuff.

Why does it seem on this forum that so few people actually leave comments?I think a lot of people are reading these threads, but they just don't ask or comment.
Just wondering why, this plane is so different that I thought people would be flooding you with questions.

I'm sure watching it! I'm amazed at the talent and skill level on this. I can't wait to see it fly. Bill, you can't wait two years to maiden it though. :D

pd1
03-11-2007, 05:06 PM
Hi Tom, he's doing a fantastic job on a very unusual and difficult plane.

The build has so many departures from normal planes that I was just wondering why there has been so few questions.
I know I have a million questions on this build, and I'm seeing more as he works.
I just feel guilty asking all the questions.

Maine Flyer
03-11-2007, 09:45 PM
Watching also. No questions at this time but I do echo those comments regarding some kind of internal waterproofing. I lost a water rudder on a Seamaster last year due to covering coming loose and becoming water soaked.

Presently I am building a Cessna 195 kit (will have floats) and waterproofed all internal parts I could.

What this thread teaches - I hope - is how light you can build a strong structure. Something I am still learning as I tend to make parts stronger than necessary.
Joe

Bill G
03-12-2007, 04:45 PM
Grasshopper, I will want to fly this plane sooner than that, but the problem is that it may take 2 years to finish.:D A lot of details on this plane that I'm not use to doing on the standard issue warbirds. Construction is just a little different too.:eek:

I was just staring at a can of Balsaloc last night, and wondering if it is a waterproofer. I definitely want some type of waterproofing on at least the lower hull wood. Considering that I actually use water to soak hardwood stringers and basswood and ply sheeting so that it can be formed like a soft pretzel, I think it would be a good thing to waterproof them.:eek:

What are folks using for waterproofing wood?
Can sheeting still be glued to the wood afterwards?

Joe, I really could use some better pics, but the trussed boom structure is probably the best example of using lightweight bracing. A structure like this can be trussed, like bridge construction. To gain the same strength without them, the boom formers would have to be made from much heavier wood. I tend to make stuff much stronger than necessary too. What I'm trying to get away from, is to make one section of a part stronger than needed, while another section is still the weakpoint. In other words, inefficient.

I also thought about the potential of losing parts. My tailwheel assembly is spring loaded with a pull cable looped through the steering arm. I ain't losin' that part! Way too many hours into the little sucker for that to happen. The water rudder has a small set bolt, not screw, but bolt going through it, and the top of the steering shaft is permanently welded (mrg part) to the shaft. Same goes for that part, I'd cry if I lost it.:D

Another thing I started paying attention to here, is reinforcing long stringers. Nothing is worse than breaking one, after your plane is sheeted and finished. If you look at how they fail, its usually in the center, especially when the plane is handled, and a spot is gripped too hard. The wood fails when the far side of the center exceeds the tension and bending limit of the wood, and does not fail in shear. Balsa is not good in tension, in the cross grain direction. What's not as obvious, is that is you can stiffen the stringer to STOP it from bending, then it will not fail nearly as soon. I've found that if you laminate a second stringer of only about 1/3 the length of the stringer section, in the center and on the inside, that the strength gain is substantial. Laminating a full length stringer to an existing stringer is just dead weight, since the section that usually fails is the inner face of the very center, which fails in tension and bending. Another thing I found is that it is the lamination layer of the CA that really provides much of this added tensile strength, just like in the resin engineered beams. The reinforcer added to the center of a stringer does not need to be as thick as the original stringer, for a large gain in strength.

While that may seem like quite a dissertation on adding a small reinforcement patch and a point load in the center of a beam:D, its something I will probably be looking at in the future. Using the idea, a plane could be built with fewer formers and longer spans of stringers in between. The weight of the short splices added to the stringers is less that the reduced former count, and the strength gain is considerable.

New progress is the elevator servo and pushrod are in place. I made an adapter mount for the elevator servo, so that I can remove it and install a larger servo if I choose to, as a drop in replacement.
Bill

Maine Flyer
03-12-2007, 05:16 PM
Bill, I use epoxy thinned with alcohol. It added about 1/2 oz to the fuse when I build my Drake II. AUW ended up at just about 40 ozs. It gave me some piece of mind if I got some water into areas where I didn't notice it.

I'm sure there as many solutions to waterproofing as there are flyers on this forum! A friend of mine had to redo the hull of a Seamaster due to water inside. He ended up with mold in some areas.

Keep up the good work!
Joe

pd1
03-12-2007, 06:05 PM
Bill, I agree with Maine Flyer. Thinned epoxy works good.
I used to thin it with lacquer thinner, alcohol might work better though.

Maybe even spraying the uncovered structure with rattle can clear?
Anything should be a help.

E-Challenged
03-12-2007, 06:06 PM
Bill, glad to see you doing so well on the Seabee, hope to see successful flight shots. I wish my own abilites were as advanced as yours.
I wouldn't trust Balsa Loc to be waterproof. Sig Stiksit or Balsarite would probably work better. BTW, I concieved the idea for the "fun build off "contest" on E-Zone including the amateur and pro categories to bring the range of scratch designer/builders into the competition who might otherwise not give it a try. I have never met Pat Tritle or Charlie Manzano, etc. but admire and respect what they do. As to the "powers that be" on E-Zone, I don't know them at all and have no reason to suspect any "conspiracy theories". I appreciate the efforts of all who keep all of these online modelling forums going an am glad to contribute what little I can.

Bill G
03-13-2007, 08:04 PM
Thanks for the comments. I'll have to try the thinned epoxy. Probably adds a good bit of strength too.

EC,
As for conspiracy theory, the only conspiracy, if that, is that people like Martin who do reviews there, have preference with the staff. Its obvious and normal, as theirs this thing we call "buddies" in the world. Still doesn't fly with me, that they are automatically right, and can send insulting PMs to folks they don't know, about things that don't concern them. As far as I'm concerned with that place, when they lift the temp, I'll go back there and defend the false statements he made AFTER I was gone, and they can hit their little magic buttons again if they wish. As for the powers that be there, I didn't want to know them either, but I sure do now.

Bill

Bill G
03-14-2007, 05:18 AM
PD1 or Maine, what type of alcohol do you use?
Also thought about polyurethane. Not sure how well it works to waterproof balsa, but is light. I may glass the bottom areas up to the waterline also.

Seabee
Carved pieces to sculpt the nose section from. In the first pic, they are not glued in place, and only test fit into place. Was a bit of work making all the parts fit that well. The pieces were made from the same 3/8" x 1" balsa stock, shown in the foreground of the pic. I started playing around with ideas, and arrived on a scheme of parts using that stock size, that fit together as if it was meant to be. I plan to carve out some weight from the rear of them, but leave enough thickness for good strength.

In the second pic, the parts are shown in an "exploded" view on the left, and are fit together on the right. The center part, which is set up on an eraser, is the front most part. Additional balsa was glued to this part, to add material to its front face. This part is stacked on top of the part to the right, when assembled. A section of tri-stock was added to the right most part, which provides more material for the seam area, since the area will get thinner once the final sculpting is done. The left most part is the side piece, which glues against the other 2 parts. The parts were pre-sculped to get the nose shape close, before permanently gluing into place.
The other thing in this pic is my antique wooden "H" puzzle. This nose assembly reminded me of it, since just like the H puzzle, it took a good while to figure out how to make it. When I was a kid, I spent hours with the dumb puzzle, and couldn't get the perfect H. Got some lousy looking ones, but dad said that they didn't count.:D

Did a bit of sheeting in the third pic, since I had to see what some of it would look like with the sheeting. The small patch with blue iron on covering was applied to the tailwheel area after waterproofing the wood underneath, so that I could complete the tailwheel pull cable linkage. The plane will be done in a scheme with this color and white. Normally don't like baby blue, but this scheme looked good, and just as important when you're broke, I have the color.

Bill

Maine Flyer
03-14-2007, 10:52 PM
Bill,
I use Isopropyl Alcohol 91%. Less water in it. 99% would be better if you can get it. I feel it does help strengthen the assembly and I am a bit liberal about applying it!

I have heard that polyurethane works well also. Some use it on glass.

I did glass (with 3/4 oz) the entire hull of my Drake II but found it made it a bit harder for me to cover without bubbles. But if the covering "leaks", the hull is protected by the glass. Works for me!

Joe

Bill G
03-16-2007, 01:30 AM
Bill,
I use Isopropyl Alcohol 91%. Less water in it. 99% would be better if you can get it. I feel it does help strengthen the assembly and I am a bit liberal about applying it!

I have heard that polyurethane works well also. Some use it on glass.

I did glass (with 3/4 oz) the entire hull of my Drake II but found it made it a bit harder for me to cover without bubbles. But if the covering "leaks", the hull is protected by the glass. Works for me!

Joe
That's what I thought. Good thing, as everyone has a bottle of isopropyl they can swipe from the medicine compartment.:D Don't want to buy something special if I don't have to. My LHS owner likes Sig clear dope. The toss up is that epoxy takes effort to mix, but then the dope has to air dry and stinks like hell, and I like things the harden quickly, like 30 min epoxy. I use way to much activator on CA. Harden now!:eek: 30 seconds, to a minute, is far to long to wait.

I've heard of all the WBPU used on glass. This is probably the only case, for waterproofing, that I would glass. I'm a big iron-on fan. Good point about the bubbles, since you can't force trapped air through the balsa as easily.

Got a few more pic I'll have to post later to, after taking Fox out for a walk.

Bill

John Seidelman
03-16-2007, 02:10 AM
Bill,
I use Isopropyl Alcohol 91%. Less water in it. 99% would be better if you can get it. I feel it does help strengthen the assembly and I am a bit liberal about applying it!

I have heard that polyurethane works well also. Some use it on glass.

I did glass (with 3/4 oz) the entire hull of my Drake II but found it made it a bit harder for me to cover without bubbles. But if the covering "leaks", the hull is protected by the glass. Works for me!

Joe

I used to do the coffee table tops and hand painted clocks with polyurethane, and before it dried I would pass a lighted propane torch over the surface to draw out the bubbles. DO NOT TORCH THE SURFACE!!!!!!!!
You just pass the flame near the surface Parallel and it works.

MikeF
03-16-2007, 03:52 AM
Hi Bill.
Remember me.:) :eek: :)

FWIW Denatured Alcohol solvent from the local hardware store is a better choice for thinning epoxy than isopropyl.

Good luck with your build.
Mike

Bill G
03-16-2007, 06:25 PM
Installed and sculpted the nose section. The first pic shows a front and rear view of the assembled parts. I hogged out the rear of these nose parts to save weight, as it looks like I will not need added nose weight to set the CG, and will probably not need to mount the batt all the way forward either.
Scupted to shape in the second pic.

On the "bubbles" thing, we were referring to trapped air underneath iron-on coverings, since the poly coated balsa can no longer pass air through it. I will make sure not to torch any table tops, though.:eek: :D

Hi Bill.
Remember me.:) :eek: :)

FWIW Denatured Alcohol solvent from the local hardware store is a better choice for thinning epoxy than isopropyl.

Good luck with your build.
Mike

Guess you missed this from my previous post:
Quote from post #9:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=164227&postcount=9
BTW,
MikeF, saw you listed as a forum viewer here while I was logged on. Didn't know that you hung out here too.

Maybe you can do me a favor? Tell the folks there about the real reason for the Temp B. I got over there.
I saw MH posting over there, telling false stories as to why it happened. The real reason I got the time off over there, was for posting his picture in my avatar.:D LOL
I had it saying "professional dork", it dissappeared, so I figured maybe something went wrong, I then reloaded it, and before I could get back to the posts, I saw the the little TB note, and the avatar was gone again. They had put a "watch actions" on my account.

Bill

pd1
03-16-2007, 07:52 PM
Hi Bill, Maybe useing denatured alcohol works better than lacquer thinner.

It was a long time ago, I had the thinner, so I just went with it.

I thinned the epoxy so it was like water. I just wanted to fill the pores in the balsa, not fill the grain. I didn't have any bubbles with the covering after that.

I think I saw an add for Ultracote where they claim it didn't bubble over other coverings. That might be another solution.

Build looks better and better.
Paul

MikeF
03-17-2007, 02:06 AM
Yup, I guess I missed that you saw me here. I pop over every few days to check out whats going on. Been following your build but mostly skimming and looking at pics. Actually been spending a great deal of time at the Flying Giants site as well. Between the 3 forums I'm not getting any friggin work done at all.:rolleyes:

As for the "other site" I figure it's best to let it go. I missed the MH avatar trick. Kind of funny, but you had to know that would get you in trouble.:rolleyes:

On all the forums I figure it's best to have a thick skin and try to keep a cool head. Can't let your own self worth be dictated by a bunch of people you don't really even know. Personally I'm just trying to hang a low profile and not stir things up.

Look what one poorly thought out sentence did for you and me!:p

Keep up the good work. I'll be watching.:)

Mike

Bill G
03-17-2007, 07:18 AM
Yup, I guess I missed that you saw me here. I pop over every few days to check out whats going on. Been following your build but mostly skimming and looking at pics. Actually been spending a great deal of time at the Flying Giants site as well. Between the 3 forums I'm not getting any friggin work done at all.:rolleyes:

As for the "other site" I figure it's best to let it go. I missed the MH avatar trick. Kind of funny, but you had to know that would get you in trouble.:rolleyes:

On all the forums I figure it's best to have a thick skin and try to keep a cool head. Can't let your own self worth be dictated by a bunch of people you don't really even know. Personally I'm just trying to hang a low profile and not stir things up.

Look what one poorly thought out sentence did for you and me!:p

Keep up the good work. I'll be watching.:)

Mike

Thanks for the compliments Mike. Also, that's why I like to add pics. I occasionally read things, after looking at the pics, if they're are any in the first place.:D

Been adding the last few stringers, and like any scratch build made without plans, I've been sanding and padding out a few areas, to tweak the shape. Pretty much ready to sheet the plane now. I waterproofed all of the lower framework, and the inside of the tailboom hull bottom. I will add the front hull bottom next and waterfroof it, before finishing the remainder of the sheeting.

The other place:
What amazed me is that it took 5 seconds! They were watching. I mean really watching!:eek: They sure knew it was him, and there were only 2 pics of him on the entire site. What got me in trouble was the he is buddys with the staff there. That's why he has no qualms about sending anybody a nasty PM, even when he doesn't know them. I agree that you have to keep a cool head and lay low. This case was different, since I knew that the guy could get away with murder there. Either way, he got the exposure for it that he deserved. I knew who his friends were, and don't get intimidated by it. What's not worth it, is to put up with that crap, and keep quiet.

They left the profile statement that I put with it, since it looks funny and bad on me, without the avatar. Not cool. Well, when I get back there, the avatar's going back up. Look for it an about 2 months.:D


Bill

Jim Casey
03-17-2007, 02:21 PM
Maybe I'm too late, but for waterproofing I like to use brush-on water-based polyurethane varnish. I use it to stick down my glass cloth, too. It is possibly not as strong as epoxy, but vastly more convenient, less expensive, and doesn't stink. I fly slimers, too, and it is fuel-proof. Film coverings bond well to it.

Bill G
03-17-2007, 02:54 PM
Maybe I'm too late, but for waterproofing I like to use brush-on water-based polyurethane varnish. I use it to stick down my glass cloth, too. It is possibly not as strong as epoxy, but vastly more convenient, less expensive, and doesn't stink. I fly slimers, too, and it is fuel-proof. Film coverings bond well to it.

I found a can of clear poly, and have been using it. I doped the first coat, and then added the poly for the second coat, once I found the can. I still can get in there to coat the hull bottoms. Haven't put the sides on yet, since I plan to add a good few coats.

Bill

Bill G
03-18-2007, 07:17 AM
:eek:

I've got the nose just about the way it should look, with a few coats of sanded primer, and some filler. Been using this DHP filler that the LHS just got in, which seems to work better than the Hobbico that I had been using, and the Goldberg filler.

Painted the steerable/retractable tailwheel assembly with aluminum paint. Looks fairly close to scale, although the fork angle is too straight, and it doesn't have the mechanisms above the main body casting, that the real one has. Still has functional axle bolts (#0-80 screws) like the full size plane, a top jam nut on the steering spindle, and a simulated adjuster on the top rear, like the full size plane. Still much better than just a piece of wire and a wheel.

Finished the main cabin hull bottom sheeting, and waterproofing the inside surface. I made sure to coat everything from the cabin floor and below, all of the fuse and tailboom formers, and the main center keel. This plane should be able to take a mild soaking, without exploding.:eek: I remember how a Dumas boat that I build years ago had leaked and swelled, even after I had thought it was sealed on the outside, with paint. Gotta coat the inside surfaces too. The cabin sidewall sheeting will be coated once installed also. Pretty much every inch of the structure will be coated, by completion. You don't usually get this with an ARF. I will have to coat the tailboom sheeting inner surface, before applying the sheeting, since the area will be inaccessible afterwards.

The front hull is actually curved in like a displacement hull, although it can't be seen well in the third pic. A small portion of this feature can be seen in the first pic, in front of the masking paper. This will not only make the hull look scale, but hopefully will also displace water better than a flat pan hull.

Bill

Bill G
03-19-2007, 07:05 AM
:eek:

Look what I found buried in the house! Thin white cardboard covers for my building board. Anyone who's seen my threads, knows that beat to crap building board right away.:D I even found three of these covers. The make the pics look better, and not small parts will not be camoflauged into the board surface.

Added the window frames today. The "glass" will install from the inside. I'll need to make a mold for the front window, to put a bit of curve into the clear plastic sheet. The cabin sheeting will overlap the side windows, all the way to the front window pillar. This will make the outer surface coincident with the the cabin sides, and the added balsa thickness will provide a bit of latitude to sand the curve that begins at the top of the window frames, which will blend into the roof. The window frames and fillets were made using basswood, light ply, and hard balsa. The idea here is to have a harder material than the outer layer of balsa sheeting that will be applied and cut out, so that it will provide a stiff guide to cut the windows out of the sheeting, and will also strengthen the frames.

The more these details are tackled one at a time, the more I realize why this plane is rarely built, and when built, not often highly detailed.:eek: One good thing, is that there is never a shortage of different tasks that can be done. If your not in the mood to to one thing, there's plenty of other things that can be done, and many of the tasks do not need to be done in a specific order. This build is really like building several planes, or at least several major projects, broken into the cabin - detailed interior, tailboom - tail feathers, retracts, wing assembly with floats, and removable roof and "engine" cover.

For motivation, I look at these videos of an rc Seabee from time to time, the same size as this plane, built from modified RCM plans:
http://www.flyingmodels.org/showtime/SeeBee_h.htm

The main balsa sheets for the tailboom have also been cut out, and waterproofed inside. They will cover the sides of the boom, up to the the stringer where the boom curves steeply over to the top surface. This remaining top area will be sheeted with individual panels for each section between the formers, like the real plane. The boom angle changes between the last several formers, at each former, requiring the use of separate sheets.

I also ran the wire for the rudder tail light. Gotta do that before the boom is sheeted.:eek: I have the wire end sticking out of an opening in the boom where the front frame of the vertical stab will glue into, and a string tethered to it, which routes out of the exit hole in the rear of the boom. This way, I'll be able to pull the tail light wire through the boom with this string, and then solder it to the existing wire that exits through the front v-stab frame mounting opening.

Next pics should show the tailboom sheeted.

Bill

Bill G
03-21-2007, 04:10 AM
I was ready to start sheeting, and I slowed myself down, to add needed insets to support the sheeting, and sanded and padded out some areas on the boom, to get the shape correct. Usually I get in a big rush at this stage, but it will pay off later on. From a top view, the boom sides are straight. My boom had a slight curve going inward at the beginning of it, and the rear area had some contours that were a bit off. They are now corrected, and I won't have to look at it later, with afterthoughts. A build with hand drawn plans and hand cut parts does not quite go together like a CAD drawn laser cut kit.:eek:

In the first pic, some insets were added to the front seam where the sheeting will butt against the nose block, for support. The second pic shows the ply insets for the wing strut attacment clevises, which are easier to install now, than later. I think I finally have everything ready, and the sheeting is pre-cut and waterproofed, ready to go on.

Bill

Bill G
03-21-2007, 11:58 PM
Sheeted the main cabin. Turned out pretty well, and since the pic it has been filled and sanded smooth. I used reinforcement strips inside the cabin to push out a few low spots, which are ran across the sheeting grain direction. They stiffened the areas so well, that I filled all the areas between the formers and stringers with these stiffeners. The plane is being sheeted with a thick grade of 1/32" balsa, which is still a good bit lighter than 1/16" sheeting. Later, the cabin interior walls will be sheeted with very light 1/32" sheeting, and a scale interior added.

At this point, I can pretty well estimate an AUW of 45oz, with a 51" wing span. This will give a wing loading of about 18oz/sq-ft, which is high enough as it is. This is the main reason for the 1/32 sheeting.

Bill

Bill G
03-22-2007, 08:35 AM
http://www.rcfreedom.com/Smileys/default/shocked.gif
Mostly finished with sheeting now. Since the pics, I've added the right side sheeting of the boom, and have the top section of the boom to complete. In the pic, the lower rear of the tailboom sheeting had not been glued yet. It is now, as it was a secondary operation, where a relief cut was needed at the rounded step in the boom, where the tailwheel is located. It was then dampened and curled under the bottom, and glued in place. The top of the boom will be sheeted in 3 sections, like the full size plane, since there are 2 points where the contour changes. The sheeting was a procedure, since its difficult to do it all in one gluing session. The more time taken to determine your procedures large panel sheeting schemes, the better.

I also decided that the front cabin structure was strong enough to cut away the passenger side of the dash, back to the first cross support. This area is supposed to be open, for passengers to exit through the docking door. The other side is where the dash and instrument panel are located. The dash had 2 cross supports originally, so if removed 1/4 of the dash, going back to the first support, to make the interior look more scale. To add strength, I added another front cabin cross support at the level where the false floor will be mounted. On the real Seabee, the right front cabin area is open all the way to the nose, for ease of exit through the docking door on the passenger side, but I'm not going to eliminate the entire dash :eek:, since I want the cross support that is still there.

I'm really glad that I added numerous extra sheeting support splints that run from stringer to stringer, in each bay between the formers in the tailboom, in essence adding extra formers for the sheeting by making a perimeter support. They were added since the last pics posted. Since this heavy 1/32" sheeting is not exactly as stiff as 1/16", the support was good. I did not press the sheeting in hard, to contact every spot, since I was more concerned with a wave free smooth contour. What I did afterwards, is drop bomb:D thick CA onto these splints, and other spots where there was no contact, to fill the voids. Without these added splints, I would have had a very springy sheeting job, but it is quite stiff now, since it has many supports points. I don't do everything exactly 100% orthodox, since I'm more concerned with the final result, than having my build published as master modelling quality bare bones work.:eek:
(I've never seen the thick CA drop bomb fill method described in mags)

Bill

pd1
03-22-2007, 01:41 PM
Bill, it keeps getting better.
Because I'm too cheap to buy the thick CA I tried this.
Use baking soda as a filler, then drop a few drops of CA on it. It fills voids, and acts as an accerator for the CA.
Just don't have your eyes too close, it kicks off and smokes, the smoke irritates the eyes. Don't ask me how I know.

I put baking soda in a squeeze bulb and I use it just as an accelerator as well.

Bill G
03-22-2007, 04:04 PM
Bill, it keeps getting better.
Because I'm too cheap to buy the thick CA I tried this.
Use baking soda as a filler, then drop a few drops of CA on it. It fills voids, and acts as an accerator for the CA.
Just don't have your eyes too close, it kicks off and smokes, the smoke irritates the eyes. Don't ask me how I know.

I put baking soda in a squeeze bulb and I use it just as an accelerator as well.
Thanks for the comments PD1.
BTW,
I once got the bright idea of mixing a bit of plaster with CA on a piece of cardboard, to fix a chip in porcelain. I did not know that it (I think the lime in the plaster) was an accelerator. The plan was to mix it with my finger and apply it. It started smoking on my finger!:eek:

Here's a more recent pic of the sheeting. The tailboom sheeting went well. A small balsa patch which needs to be sanded, barely seen at the top of the beginning of the boom where it blends into the cabin, is the only spot I had to pad out a bit with balsa to fill a low spot. The boom sides sheeted so well that I only had to sand a small amount of balsa thickness to remove any waves. They were certainly more work to sheet than the cabin, but actually required less sanding than the cabin to straigten, and no filler as of yet. Sheeting around an area with continuous curves actually keeps the balsa from getting dimples and high spots, since the curves add strength to the sheeting.

Bill

Grasshopper
03-22-2007, 04:28 PM
That's looking great Bill! A 2:35 AM Post? You need to get some sleep so you don't pass out in a blob of CA. I would hate to see the next picture of it glued to your forehead.

pd1
03-22-2007, 04:33 PM
Tom, that's a terrible thing to say.
Imagine how much that would hurt, having to cut his forehead away to save the plane.

But it would look funny though.
Probably get printed in the tabloids too , "man has giant airplane growing out of head".

Grasshopper
03-22-2007, 04:35 PM
Maybe we could all chip in and buy a snorkel and a tub of CA Debonder. :D

Bill G
03-23-2007, 01:08 AM
:eek:
Go look at my post times, and you'll get a real kick. :D
My life story lately: Got a couple hours?:eek:

Bill

Bill G
03-23-2007, 07:13 PM
Finished levelling the sheeting on the boom, and shaping the curve in the rear boom area. Still have the top boom area to finish. Also shown is a poor pic of the blends where the boom meets the fuse. These actually were less difficult to fill and shape than I expected, and needed only a small wedege of sheeting to fill the void left where the sheeting was slit. Good thing that I backed this area with balsa first, before sheeting.

The thing's starting to look like an airplane, but still have a long way to go.:eek: Haven't even started on the foam core wing and more difficult curved parts like the removable roof and engine cover. Still, I'm finally starting to feel like I'm getting somewhere with this project.

Bill

flypaper 2
03-24-2007, 01:48 PM
Bill:
If you want paint that looks like real aluminum instead of painted aluminum, try the Testors chrome paint in the spray bombs. I do my GWS orange props with it and people ask where I got the aluminum props from. Also, throw a small piece of real sponge in the bottom of the fuse and it will soak up any water sloshing around.

hakanf
03-24-2007, 01:52 PM
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newcomer
03-24-2007, 11:06 PM
Bill,
no matter what forum you're using, i Always enjoy (and learn from) your threads.
david

Bill G
03-26-2007, 12:51 PM
Thanks for the comments guys.
Newcomer, any new Luft builds? Always like to see your work too.

Never used Testors chrome paint. The tailwheel has Testors alum paint, but is so small that irregularities are hard to see. I've found that mixing it well, and applying in straight strokes can give a good "brushed aluminum" effect. For cast aluminum parts, the spray would be more realistic.

As for a sponge, the bottom has so many individual bays, it would not be practical. What I have done is to add so many coats of waterproofing to make sure that I didn't miss anything, that I'm convinced that I could use it as a fish tank if I wanted to.:eek: Just have to seal the windows pretty well, that's all. I would want to seal them, since its where you would look in and see the fish.:D

Seabee Progress
I have the last piece of boom sheeting cut out and ready to apply at this point. I've kept the dope and Balsarite on the front of the workbench, so I don't forget to brush the inside of the panels before gluing them on. Of all my builds so far, I've put more effort into tweaking perfectly fitting panel seams, than any in the past. Takes a while to get them to fit like a glove.

In the pic, is also a hand drawing of the engine cover, since the 2-view I used did not have it. I'm looking forward to starting on it and the wing, since I've been on this fuse forever. After a number of fill and sand operations and a few sanded coats of primer, the fuse should be pretty straight now. Balsa sheeting does not lend well to levelling, since the glue seams are so much harder than the rest of the sheeting, and the filler is never exactly like the surrounding balsa. You pretty much have to give it a consistent base of primer, or some other sealer, from time to time as you go through the fill and sand process. Otherwise, every time you fill and sand to straighten an area, any area next to it that has already been sanded to perfection gets ruined in the process.

I may have stated this before in the thread, but this DHP filler I've been using seems better than the Hobbico or Goldberg that I've used in the past. Good stuff.

Bill

pd1
03-26-2007, 02:09 PM
Bill, are you going with the stock airfoil?

Bill G
03-27-2007, 06:23 AM
Bill, are you going with the stock airfoil?
Pretty much. The foam core I am using is from a FlyZone Cub. I'll have to add the Horner tips onto the ends, which will extend the span to 51", but otherwise its the correct size and shape, and basically a Clark-Y.

I finished the last sheeting section today, and also added the fillets to the front window frame corners, and small ledges to the bottom of the frames, to retain the glass which will be installed from the inside. I also realized that I had not yet added these ledges to the bottom of the side windows, so that was done also, and they were blended into the bottom fillets. Details galore on this plane.:eek:

Bill

pd1
03-27-2007, 12:50 PM
Bill, the glass on the full sized was held in place by a rubber gasket,like old cars did.
If you let the student drop the plane onto the water from 10 feet, the windshielp pops out. Don't ask.

I flew two Sea Bees, one had the stock rounded wingtips, the other had the tips removed and flat tip plates added.

The one with the tip plates had a much better roll rate. Go figure.

Bill G
03-27-2007, 04:04 PM
Bill, the glass on the full sized was held in place by a rubber gasket,like old cars did.
If you let the student drop the plane onto the water from 10 feet, the windshielp pops out. Don't ask.

I flew two Sea Bees, one had the stock rounded wingtips, the other had the tips removed and flat tip plates added.

The one with the tip plates had a much better roll rate. Go figure.

I've seen pics of the window detail, which looks similar to how car windows are installed. From reading about the plane, it was engineering with automotive assembly techniques. I guess the cabin must flex enough to let the gasket pop off of the flange, with a hard landing. I thought about painting the window perimeter black, to simulate the rubber gasket. Definitely too small for a sane person:D to attempt to build it with a real gasket, at this size.:eek: Thought about that idea too, for a second.

In the first pic, believe it or not, the side windows are temporarily installed after a few hours:eek: of trimming each one for a perfect fit. I thought a reflection would be seen in the pic, but they really are in there. They fit the entire frame area from the inside, which is considerably larger than the window cutouts. This will give a good area for gluing, without making a glue mess of the area in the window cutout. The only delicate operation will be gluing in the bottom, where the window retaining ledges are about 1/32" high. I'll need to run a small bead of glue along that area. The front windows will be heat formed to shape over a mold, since a flat sheet will not fit well or look correct.

The instrument panel and cover are now completed as an assembly. It fits neatly into place without glue, although I probably will glue it in permanently, at a later time. Its a slight comprimise between my original plan, and the full size instrument panel, since my T-beam window pillars are thicker than those on the full size plane. On the full size plane, the instrument panel cover runs flush along the inside of the window pillar and inner door panel. My door panels will also be thicker than the full size plane's, considering scale.

Bill

pd1
03-27-2007, 04:37 PM
The new instrument panel looks real nice.

The original full sized instruments look like the came put of a 49 Hudson though, very art deco.

Are you going to try to make the panel look chrome-ish?
Or are you going to make the panel look modern.

The tachometer was useless, there was this really long cable from the panel to the engine, at least 10 feet long.
Who would have thought that it would cause the tach needle to shake when it needed lubrication?

But it looked pretty.

Bill G
03-28-2007, 05:49 AM
The new instrument panel looks real nice.

The original full sized instruments look like the came put of a 49 Hudson though, very art deco.

Are you going to try to make the panel look chrome-ish?
Or are you going to make the panel look modern.

The tachometer was useless, there was this really long cable from the panel to the engine, at least 10 feet long.
Who would have thought that it would cause the tach needle to shake when it needed lubrication?

But it looked pretty.

I thought about using aluminized duct tape for the instrument panel. I have the dash assembly painted Panzer grey now, but I still may use the aluminum tape. Since I'm replicating a real plane, I may use what it has. I know the dash on it is a dark grey flat color. I cut out some Jtec instruments for the panel, since I can't find one to print, without the steering wheel (whatever they call that thing:eek:) in the way. This is pretty much the last panel that I'll make out of the Jtec set, since its pretty well pirated now. I heard you say that the instruments were a bit old fashioned, but I still decided against using the WWI instruments that are still on the Jtec label set.:eek:

I looked at that website again where I saw an old style dash, that I decided against using. It actually is a Seabee dash, according to the site, but its from a prototype version. It looked real old fashioned, like from a Model-T.

I guess they would have geared down the tach cable, but at 10' anything would bind-release-bind-release....
I imagine many have replaced it with an electronic tach with an inductive pickup coil.

Started sculpting the engine cover mold out of foam, since I decided to go with glass. At this point, its further along than in the pic, and has a coat of filler on it, ready to be sanded. For this mold, I'll wrap it real good with saran wrap, so I can use it again. I molded a Hellcat cowl that turned out great, since the resin fortunately set up before it ate the mold:eek:. The mold for that cowl is shot.:D

Bill

pd1
03-28-2007, 12:56 PM
Bill. the ,"steering wheel," is actually called a," control yoke".

The full sized had a fan up in the front of the cowl, to force outside air back over the engine.

The first Sea Bee I flew I ended up delivering it to Florida. I got the job because the owner couldn't wait until the plane was finished being repaired. He was planning to fly it to Florida himself.

While he was flying it with the mechanic that just completed some work on it, the fan assembly froze and broke.

The fan shot fan blades down through the cabin like shrapnel. No one got injured, but he decided he would like someone else to fly the plane about 25 hours and work the bugs out, before it went to Florida.

I think what really made up his mind for him was on that landing, the gear collapsed as well.
No damage, the plane slid along the runway and didn't hurt the pavement at all.

On the plus side, I got a job, and an adventure. The Sea Bee always had a few more tricks up it's sleeve.

Bill G
03-28-2007, 05:31 PM
Bill. the ,"steering wheel," is actually called a," control yoke".

The full sized had a fan up in the front of the cowl, to force outside air back over the engine.

The first Sea Bee I flew I ended up delivering it to Florida. I got the job because the owner couldn't wait until the plane was finished being repaired. He was planning to fly it to Florida himself.

While he was flying it with the mechanic that just completed some work on it, the fan assembly froze and broke.

The fan shot fan blades down through the cabin like shrapnel. No one got injured, but he decided he would like someone else to fly the plane about 25 hours and work the bugs out, before it went to Florida.

I think what really made up his mind for him was on that landing, the gear collapsed as well.
No damage, the plane slid along the runway and didn't hurt the pavement at all.

On the plus side, I got a job, and an adventure. The Sea Bee always had a few more tricks up it's sleeve.
That term makes less sense than a "steering wheel".:D

I imagine the fan is only needed at low speeds, such as when "boating" in the water? I guess the blades must spin with a good few rpm?:eek: Maybe the plane could use a thick plate for a "scattershield" bellhousing, like manual transmission drag cars.

Was the gear not "locked" down. From what I see, the mechanism takes advantage of a "locking knee" effect in both up and down positions, with 2 separate retract cylinders, but I guess it would not hold, if the hydraulics do not hold.

Seabee Progress:
I detailed the insrument panel to somewhat resemble pics from the actual plane that I am replicating. I didn't make the lower gauges in the aluminum bezel plate rectangular, like the real plane, and the alum plate is a bit out of scale, like the gauges. I cut out the data plate from a pic of the real instrument panel, and made an attempt to arrange everything to resemble the full size plane that I'm modelling.
The little insrument panel locks in place quite well without even being glued, with a flange that locks onto the fuse former along the window pillar line, and a cut that slides over the front dash frame. Maybe I'll keep it removable and use it as a stash area in "smuggling operations" over the border.:D

The engine cover mold is moving along. I've been using thin coats of DHP filler, as I slowly sculpt it to shape. The filler is nice, even if it is all eventually sanded off, as it makes a good "guide" for sanding when at the nearly finished stage. Pretty much give the same "guide" effect as spraying 2 different color primer colors on top of each other. When you sand high and low areas, you see the color difference between the filler and the foam. Before final sand, I'll add a thin coat of filler to sand smooth, making a tougher mold surface than the foam.

The wing core will need the ends extended and shaped as Horner tips. Other than that, this FlyZone Cub wing is a good fitting core, with basically a Clark-Y airfoil. I stuck it on, just to see how it looks as an airplane, versus the boat I've been staring at for weeks.

Bill

pd1
03-29-2007, 01:43 PM
Bill, that panel looks great.

You should have been the mechanic on the Sea Bee, you spotted the problem in the landing gear system immediately.

Needless to say the mechanic didn't.

When the tail wheel retract piston leaked, the hydraulic pressure dropped. The main gear piston then moved back.
Causing the knee joint to move back from over center.
Causing the main gear to collapse.
Whew.

The mechanic got it after the second gear collapse.
That one was while I was taxiing up a ramp from the river.

That's when I found reverse on the prop to be very helpfull.

And this was the boring part, putting the plane back in the water was the really interresting story.

Your Sea Bee looks better and better, keep up the good work.
Paul

Bill G
03-29-2007, 06:12 PM
Thanks for the comments Paul. Would be nice to have reverse. Maybe I should get one of those variable pitch prop setups and I could hover.:D Actually it would be pretty cool.

I thought I had this "loaf of bread":D engine cover shaped to where I wanted it, and I ended up sanding off almost all the filler, for the second time.:eek: I think I'm finally happy with it. It was too wide, and the front did not curve in sharply enough. The 3-view outlines just aren't enough to make this thing from, and no matter how many photos you look at, it never seems to look quite right. I put a "paper roof" on the plane, so I could get a more realistic view to compare with the photos.

Bill

pd1
03-29-2007, 06:25 PM
Reverse is a wonderfully thing to have.

I think it's like having electric windows and door locks on your car, nice but not necessary.

The surprise to others factor is nice too.

Your cowl looks right, with the cowl seams and the front cover seam and grill it will look perfect.

It really looks like a Sea Bee now.

Bill G
03-31-2007, 06:35 AM
Reverse is a wonderfully thing to have.

I think it's like having electric windows and door locks on your car, nice but not necessary.

The surprise to others factor is nice too.

Your cowl looks right, with the cowl seams and the front cover seam and grill it will look perfect.

It really looks like a Sea Bee now.
Thanks Paul. That cowl was tough. It is now about 2mm thinnner, and tapers in a hair more at the front, and is perfect. I clear coated and painted it with Testors, so it will have less chance of being eaten as a mold. It still will be covered with Saran wrap, before glassing over it. If I slit the bottom of the prop opening hole in the glass part, after it is made, I can slip it off the mold, and use it again. After all the effort, I plan to.:eek:
The engine cover seams really should be detailed on it also, for scale look. Maybe I'll make a functional flip open cover, like the full size. Definitely will have a wire grill.

Started working with the foam wing core. Its EPP from a FlyZone Super Cub. The foam will accept standard thick CA and activator, which is a bonus. I glued a perimeter frame around it, and will probably sheet the wing with 1/32" balsa. Looking closely in the pic, there is a rear mounting plate fabbed from balsa airfoil stock, that is glued into an area cut out in the back of the wing, and under the engine cover. This will provide a reinforced area for a hold-down bolt. The front of the wing will be plated, and locate to the plane with indexing pins. The perimeter frame will also create a wing with a longer chord, when sheeted over. This wing is basically like the Clark-Y on the full-size Seabee, but is quite thick, and the maximum camber point is pretty far forward. The dowel rod that is glued along the front, and a few stringers that will be added above the dowel rod as shims, will create a slightly different airfoil profile when sheeted over. The idea is to get it closer to a Clark-Y, while also extending the chord about 3/8", since it needs to be anyways, for correct scale.
The wing span needed to be extended with flat airfoil shaped plates on the end, which will be used to attach the Horner tips, which have not yet been made. This was also done to achieve a 51.5" span when completed. Some additional balsa formers will be made, which will be cut to mate against the wing panel end surfaces, where they taper off, and will glue to the end plates. These formers will, in effect, act as stringers also, for the sheeting to glue onto, filling in the void area. The work involved in modifying this core is worth it, since I already had it before I thought about this project:D and don't need to spend more loot, but more importantly because its almost perfect for the plane.

Bill

pd1
03-31-2007, 10:56 PM
Bill, what are you going to cover this with?

I read in one of your other posts, over at the other place, you painted "Microlite".
What kind of paint did you use?
What were the results?

Chris F
04-01-2007, 12:08 AM
Hi Bill,

It's taken all this time for the people here to fix my account so I can post messages. It looks like I'm just in time because you're almost finished :eek: .
It's looking great, you have done a fantastic job and I look forward to seeing it in the air. Good to see you here too pd1.

Chris.

up_ya_go
04-01-2007, 12:38 AM
Pardon (the intrusion) .... But I just cannot resist saying you guys have an incredibly interesting, infact incredibly fascinating thread here .
Bet there will be much celebrating !!!!
Cheers
Ray

pd1
04-01-2007, 01:10 AM
Hi Chris, welcome to WattFlyer. Nice to have you here as well.
Nice to have some help in pushing Bill along.

Bill G
04-01-2007, 06:29 AM
Chris, I'll still be a good while, this thing moves along very slowly.:D Actually it may start to move along faster now, after the last major mod, which is what I had to do to make this wing core work, is now mostly finished.:eek: Thanks for posting. I was amazed to see all the interest today.

Up ya go, thanks for the comments. I like to build, and see, different stuff that we don't see everyday.

Paul, the Coverite is tricky to paint, as you have to paint it slooowly, or it will wrinkle, and then you have to very carefully heat shrink it with a hair dryer. Too much heat will pull seams. I started using it, since it is very light, and will paint well with a very light coating. I got into it for small EDF foamies, where weight is critical. I used Testors spray enamel and Testors Model Masters enamels on the Coverite. One nice thing about it is that you can easily stretch it over any surface, with low heat, which foam likes. My GWS 262 in my gallery is an example of a painted Microlite plane.
This plane will be a Monokote job.

Cutaway Ailerons
I got talked into ailerons at another site, which is a good thing, since I may as well go the extra effort at this point.

Looking at the wing extension framing in the first pic, I added an extra plate at the aileron hinge line, which is not glued to the first plate. I will cut through the sheeting between these two plates, after it is sheeted, and the aileron will separate from the wing, with a partial hinge plate on both the wing and the ailerons.

In the second pic, a hinge plate can be seen, that will be glued to the wing, at the hinge line, which will cover the exposed foam, and make a complete frame that will accept hinges. I also laminated an extra piece of 1/32" balsa behind this plate, where the inner most hinge will insert, since the hinge would rip out of a single layer of 1/32" balsa. A small recess was cut into the foam on the hinge line, to allow for this added laminated piece. Plates like the one just described will be added to the hinge face on the ailerons that are cut away also.

Looking again at the first pic, a balsa insert can be seen, that was inserted into a slot cut into the wing, which will be the aileron perimeter frame along the cutout on the wing. Glue was added only to the wing side of this part as it was slid in, so the aileron can "fall" away, after the sheeting is cut through at this line. A plate like this will need to be added to the aileron also, after it is cut away. The side of the aileron will be shaved down by the thickness of this plate plus a bit of clearance, so that the aileron will be the correct width for the cutout, when completed.

For what its worth, since its not often that folks modify a FlyZone Super Cub wing core this way, it did work well for extending the ends and adding ailerons to a foam core wing.
The additional effort of working ailerons into the wing extensions was fairly easy, since the parts only required a few perimeter plates to be added, after cutting the ailerons away from the wing, after sheeting the ends. The benefit is that the wing extension was sheeted as a single entity before cutting away the alierons, so that everything would be straight and true. I've learned the importance of building wings without warps, where both panels are symmetric from the center, in the past. http://www.rcfreedom.com/Smileys/default/shocked.gif :eek:

Finished the ailerons and cut hinge slots. (Pic 3)
4.5grams each is definitely better than using solid balsa. :eek:
The airfoil front profile is now closer to the actual Seabee. The bottom sheeting still needs to be added to the wing extensions.

Bill

Bill G
04-02-2007, 07:50 AM
Working on the wing saddle and removable roof with skylight design. This stuff moves slooow. In the pic, there are 2 header plates made for the wing front dowel pin locators. The wing will have to be shimmed up to simulate the compressed height of the foam seal that will go under the wing, before drilling the dowel holes. The sealing scheme, and building the roof itself, will be a bit of work. Just making the 2 dowel pin plates, and tweaking the shapes was a few hours:eek:.

Two notched areas can be seen, looking at the cutout on the wing (an arrow from a pen marking is at the spot), where it locates onto the fuse. These areas will require fillets that will mate against the curved roof below. The pic of the real Seabee shows this small area on the top of the wing and near the front of the engine cover, which is painted the same blue color as the top of the wing. Just another example of all the little parts that need to be made.

Not in the pic, is some padding done to the roofline flange. I don't want to make a roof with a bunch of custom made dips:eek:, so I had to
straighten the flange surface by padding with hard, thin sheet balsa, and block sanding. This area is yet another area that needs to seal perfectly.

Bill

pd1
04-02-2007, 01:26 PM
Bill, You're right about sealing the roof hatch.

Transitioning from displacement taxiing to getting on the step, a lot of spray can go up.

That's why a lot of the Sea Bees had larger spray rails added.
Even with the wide spray rails water can shoot up over the wing.

After all this fine effort we wouldn't want to see the equipment get wet.

How are you going to mount the tip floats?
What are you going to make them out of?

Bill G
04-03-2007, 04:14 AM
Bill, You're right about sealing the roof hatch.

Transitioning from displacement taxiing to getting on the step, a lot of spray can go up.

That's why a lot of the Sea Bees had larger spray rails added.
Even with the wide spray rails water can shoot up over the wing.

After all this fine effort we wouldn't want to see the equipment get wet.

How are you going to mount the tip floats?
What are you going to make them out of?

The flight videos I previously posted of a Seabee from modified RCM plans show quite a bit of spray.:eek: The model is the same size as my build. Looks like it takes a good bit of both power and time to take off also. As for sealing, I'm trying to build this so that it can be darn near submerged without leakage.:D I don't want a single drop in there.

I've been thinking about the float tips. One thought is to make them from molded half parts, like the Guillows pilots and bombs, except using fiberglass. The full size floats are made this way, with a seam in the center. The easy way would be to sculpt them from balsa and waterproof them with a coating, but this thing is getting heavy enough as it is.:eek:
Haven't thought about the mounting convention yet. I'd like to mount them with a flexible/spring setup that can give way, if needed, versus breaking off. Other thought would be to hinge them and make the support strut with something like an EZ link on one end, so they could be folded against the wing, for transporting. I'll be thinking about the floats for a while.:eek: Too many options.

Bill

Bill G
04-04-2007, 07:40 AM
The first pic shows the wing saddle parts and dihedral braces, with the notched wing core standing up in the background. The foam wing core is tough to visualize in the pic, since its on a white table.:eek: The dihedral braces will be glued to the wing saddle plate. The braces aren't really necessary since the plane will have wing struts, but will stiffen it a bit, increase the adhesion area of the wing saddle plate when epoxied onto the foam core, and make the wing a stronger when removed from the plane. These ply parts were all lightned with holes, which I've tried to do with any parts I can. The fuse mounted plate has light balsa inserts glued into cutouts in the part, for weight savings, and all parts were coated for waterproofing when finished. The locator pins are mounted in the cabin wing saddle plate, since the wing seal will be on the wing bottom surface, and water could leak in around the pins, if the convention was reversed. They are mounted low enough on the saddle plate to not interfere with the removable roof, which will be made soon. I didn't want to mount the front wing seal between the mounting plates, since it would create a gap in the roofline, detracting from appearance. A continuous seal on 1 single surface will work better too. The wing saddle locating plates will also serve as formers for the curved roof.

The second pic shows the wing sitting on its mount, and the locating pins on the cabin. The pins were difficult to locate, since both the wing bottom sheeting (not yet installed) and the compressed seal thickness had to be simulated with a sheet of balsa used as a shim, while locating the holes.

There will be some type of removable hold down bolt/s in the rear of the wing mounted under the engine cover. One method is to use 2 bolts mounted a bit forward of the rear cabin "V" point, and on the sides to make the bolts accessible, since the prop shaft will make the center area inaccessible. This will be needed, unless there is enough clearance to get in there with a wrench.:eek: More issues.

The last pic shows the taillights with removable 12V bulbs in the rudder. The wings will have red and green tip lights also.

Bill

pd1
04-04-2007, 01:25 PM
Hi Bill, I used to fly a lot of R/C seaplanes before, one trick we used to help keep water out of the cabin was to cover the fuselage opening with scrap Monocote.
If we had to access the inside we just cut it away, then replaced it.

If you have to have continual access to the interior, maybe you can tape some Saran Wrap over the opening. It won't stop a flood, but it should help stop spray from entering.
Paul

Bill G
04-04-2007, 05:54 PM
Hi Bill, I used to fly a lot of R/C seaplanes before, one trick we used to help keep water out of the cabin was to cover the fuselage opening with scrap Monocote.
If we had to access the inside we just cut it away, then replaced it.

If you have to have continual access to the interior, maybe you can tape some Saran Wrap over the opening. It won't stop a flood, but it should help stop spray from entering.
Paul

The removable roof will have a seal, since it will have to be removed every flight for the battery. It will be the same scheme as the wing seal, being a compression seal on the flat flange on the top of the cabin. This plane will be submergeable when finished. The wires for the rudder lights will be sealed at the exit point of the fuse. The tailwheel is sealed with fuel tubing stretched over the torque rod sleeve at the exit, where the inner rod can rotate inside the tubing, but with a water tight fit. The same thing will be done with the main pivot rod for the front wheels. I even tested the pushrod fit, and with 2 inches minumum of sleeving at points that exit the fuse, the surface tension is enough to keep water from leaking past the pushrod inside the tubing. This is unless it would be under a depth deep enough to create significant water pressure, but then again, considering the air volume inside the plane, it would be like trying to sink a beachball:eek:. I'm building it like a submarine:D.

The good thing about building yourself is that you can design sealing, and other features, that you would not get with a Great Planes ARF. On the other hand, it builds a lot slower too.:eek:

Bill

Bill G
04-05-2007, 05:24 AM
Made the attachment plates for the wing struts and float mounts, which need to be epoxied in place before sheeting. The foamcore surface has been recessed for these plates, to create a continuous sheeting surface. I used aileron clevis parts for the wing strut mounts, which are secured with epoxy underneath the mounting plates. The mounting tabs for the wing floats are made using Klett aileron horns. This is the first EPP wing core I've used, and I'm quite impressed with how well parts can be both epoxied and CA'd to the foam. Much better than cheap bead foam where the parts rip out. The wingtip lights are now wired, also with a landing light on the left wing outer leading edge. Still need to route the aileron cables before sheeting.

Bill

Bill G
04-06-2007, 05:48 PM
Finished hinging the ailerons and tail feathers. The ailerons had a large flat hinge surface, so I added and shaped 1/16" sheet balsa to the hinge face on the ailerons, and rounded it (first 2 pics). The mating face on the wing was dished out to mate with this rounded face, by adding strips of sheet balsa to the top and bottom of the hinge face, and dishing the area out with sandpaper. The ailerons can now move a reasonable distance up and down, without a large gap.

Slotting the tail surfaces for hinges was easy. Usually, you have to be careful to hold the frames while slotting to not crush them, with light non/sheeted, stringered frames. These frames have so many stringers:eek: (which will simulate the metal sheet ribbing when covered), that the slotting tool could easily be pushed through the frames, with the frames standing vertically on the table.

The wing landing light can be seen in the third pic. The tinted plastic light cover was made by scuffing with fine paper and rubbing with pastel (grease pencil) to tint the plastic. The full size plane I am replicating has a tinted cover, and it also hides the imperfections in the aluminum light dish in the wing, made by working aluminized duct tape into the light recess area. The outside perimeter of the light cover will be neatly trimmed over with the iron-on covering, which will be applied last, over the plastic lens cover perimeter. This landing light can be seen in the last picture, on the full size plane.

At the rate that all these little details move along, I'd say this thread will be easily going for at least another month or 2.:eek:

Bill

ElectricFlyGuy
04-06-2007, 06:28 PM
Awsome job Bill!!!!! I want to build me some planes to fly off my small lake! Where did you find that pic of a real seaplane? Take care and I hope you win that contest :) :). Scott.

Bill G
04-07-2007, 07:18 AM
Awsome job Bill!!!!! I want to build me some planes to fly off my small lake! Where did you find that pic of a real seaplane? Take care and I hope you win that contest :) :). Scott.

Thanks E-FlyGuy
Airliners.net and some other sites have some interesting info. I was surprised, that there are a few dedicated non-profit Seabee sites and owner society sites, that are simply incredible, with a wealth of info and pics. The one I'm replicating is actually in several sites, and the owner seems to be a regular at Fun-in-Sun fly-ins also.
http://www.republicseabee.com/
http://www.seabee.info/seabee.htm

Seabee Progress
Well the picture's crap:eek:, but I installed the aileron cables, and am now ready to finish sheeting the wing. I teetered between either using individual servos, or a single servo with Sullivan Gold cables, for a while. The E-Z links used on the aileron horns are HobbyZone thumbwheel threaded links. I've been using them for a while now. They are fine threaded, unlike the Dubro E-Z link screw threads, so you can get incredible tightening force on the pushrod with just your fingers turning the ribbed thumbwheel. Fine threads don't back off as easily as coarse threads do either. I'm convinced that they will tighten as well by hand, as the screw versions do when using a screwdriver. They also seem to be made of high grade steel, and are only a buck for 2 of them. You can tighten the crap out of them, and the threaded thumbwheel screw will not break. They are much easier to adjust with your fingers, than needing a screwdriver for the Dubro links.

The second pic is about as much as its looked like a Seabee as of yet. Every now and then, I have to throw it all together to see a real airplane instead of a bunch of parts, to keep motivated.:D

Bill

Chris F
04-07-2007, 09:45 PM
Hi Bill,

It's looking fantastic. It's the best, most scale looking Seabee I have seen yet. It looks to me like you're still making good progress.

Chris.

Bill G
04-08-2007, 05:59 AM
Thanks Chris. Making good progress, but slow.:D Everything's different than other planes I've built. Today's work is about as good as an example as it gets, as I've never mounted a motor on the top rear of a high winger, with a cabin that comes to a point underneath.:eek:

I was about to start sheeting the wing today, and I thought it might not be a good idea to mount 300W of takeoff power on foam.:eek: Anyways, I had to take a step back once again, and design the motor mount and decide on the wing hold down location. Its a lot easier to build the mounting structure into the wing core now, than to cut into it after sheeting.

I started by adding a hard balsa brace of rectangular stock from the wing leading edge to trailing edge mounting plates, which was shaped to blend with the airfoil. This piece runs down the top center of the wing chord, and will also give a point for the sheeting to fasten to, in the center. I also extended the ply plate on the top rear of the wing, which is glued over the brace just described. I need the added area for the wing hold down bolts, since I don't want the bolt to be trapped under the motor. Originally I wanted a single bolt in the rear, but the motor would have to be removed to access it, so I'm going with 2 bolts, 1 on each side, about 1-1/2" forward of the trailing edge. I'll attach blind fasteners to the top cabin flange on the inside face, for the wing hold down bolts to thread into, with a cross-brace across the underside of the flanges for strength.

I found some light aluminum computer brackets with threaded PEM fasteners already installed in them, in my hardware drawers. Scratch builders collect junk like this with a passion.:D I bent them for the motor mount brackets as seen in the pic, and are obviously not finished. They will need to be mounted on a shim block, which will lift the motor to the correct height, and downthrust angle.

Bill

Bill G
04-09-2007, 05:47 AM
Well its not exactly a laser light setup:D, but I made a crude tool to adjust the motor mount block to produce 3 degrees of downthrust, like the full size plane. Still better than that TLAR stuff. The custom made motor mount has 4 threaded inserts in the aluminum frame, that will accept screws installed from the wing bottom surface. The foam wing core has been reinforced with hard balsa and ply in the motor mounting area and also has a brace that runs though the center chord, to tie the front and rear mounting plates of the wing together.

The wing mounting holes, tubing liners that are glued inside the holes, and the placement of the threaded inserts in the cabin top flange were located with a high degree of accuracy. This is the kind of stuff that makes these scratch builds take forever.:eek: If you don't try to work within a tolerance of +/-.010", then you will end up with a wing saddle plate that does not butt perfectly with the cabin, and bolts that require game playing to get the threads started. The 10-32 nylon wing bolts drop into the tubing inserts and thread effortlessly. When fully tightened, the unthreaded bolt shank at the top fits inside the tubing with only a few thousandths clearance, for a precision fit. The tubing inserts are located inside ply plates which are attached to the wing center balsa framer, since they would rip through the soft foam core, without this positive support.

The top wing sheeting panels have been pre-cut to fit like a glove, so I pre-drilled the motor mount and wing hold-down holes in them, so I won't have to find them later, since they would have been buried under the sheeting.

Custom Gearbox City:eek:
The gearbox came with my Great Planes foam ARF Hellcat. I used a different drive gear, and have a final ratio of about 3.1:1. I drilled out the gear and machined a small half-round on the inside surface of the inner gear hole. Using the correct size of wire to make a keyway, it can be pressed in-between the flat on the motor shaft, and this half-round hole, which locks the gear on the motor shaft. It is tight and works well. My only concern is that there is not that much meat left in the gear body after the machining, so I hope it doesn't explode under power, but it is working well. Stop collars were used on either side of the gear, to stop it from sliding on the shaft. Opposing the set screws of these 2 stop collars 180 degrees apart keeps them in balance on the motor shaft.

If you get a kick out of this gearbox, you outta see what's in the Hellcat now.:D
It has an LPS gearbox, which suffered some melting damage in a Feigao meltdown, with a 180 brushed motor now custom mounted on it with wire tie and globs of CA. Has many great flights (over 30) on it, using 3s lipo to boot!

The Motor
I'm not betting the farm on the motor,:eek: but it is a Maxx 4011 cobalt. I've been trying to hide this motor from the thread, since I know that it will be questioned skeptically and will cause a million "go brushless" comments. I may end up doing that anyways. They are good for about 250W on 3s lipo, and can peak at 300W for takeoff. Theoretically, I can run at about 9500rpm with a Master Airscrew 9070 3-blader, using my 3.1:1 gear ratio on 3s lipo.

Moto Calc Anyone?
While some of the motor calc software is a bit conservative, I'd be interested to see the results of the setup, if anyone wants to run it?

Why use it? Because I have it.:D Also, by using a geared setup, the motor is moved forward, which helps avoid the need for added noseweight. If I use an outrunner, then the motor will either fit in the very rearmost part of the engine cover area, or will require a driveshaft extension with a carrier bearing.

note: engine cover: full size plane. Don't correct me, and say motor now.:D

Bill

ElectricFlyGuy
04-09-2007, 05:54 AM
Very awsome job Bill!! I gave you Rep boost and hope others that see your fine work here, will also!! I will be watching this thread grow for sure. Awsome job you are doing!!!!!;) Scott.

Well its not exactly a laser light setup:D, but I made a crude tool to adjust the motor mount block to produce 3 degrees of downthrust, like the full size plane. Still better than that TLAR stuff.

The wing mounting holes, tubing liners inside the holes, and the placement of the threaded inserts in the cabin were located with a high degree of accuracy. This is the kind of stuff that makes these scratch builds take forever.:eek: If you don't try to work within a tolerance of +/-.010", then you will end of with a wing saddle plate that does not butt perfectly with the cabin, and bolts that require game playing, to get the threads started. These nylon 10-32 wing bolts drop right into the tubing inserts and thread effortlessly. When fully tightened, the bolt shank fits inside the tubing with only a few thousandths clearance, for a precision fit. The tubing inserts are located inside ply plates which are attached to the wing center balsa framer, since they would rip through the soft foam core, without this positive support.

The top wing sheeting panels have been pre-cut to fit like a glove, so I pre-drilled the motor mount and wing hold-down holes in them, so I won't have to find them later, since they would have been buried under the sheeting.



Bill

Bill G
04-10-2007, 07:21 AM
Thanks for the comments EFG.

I fabricated the bottom balsa sheet for the wing, and all of the through holes are cut, so I'm finally about ready to finish this wing. The top sheet has been ready for a few days.

I added some CF strips along the bottom of the foam core, which are glued to the bottom of the motor mount. It had a bit too much flex (meaning basically any), even with the wing center brace, and I wanted to eliminate it. Its much stiffer now. If you torque the motor mount upward at the rear, like the motor will, then you can actually watch the EPP foam core flex a bit, along the line that the CF tape is glued to. These CF strips are long enough to distribute the load very well.

I also realized that there is no need to try to route the wing seal all the way to the very rearmost "V" point of the cabin. I added a piece of ply to the top cabin flange to fill in the rear "V" area, and now the rear wing seal will run across the cabin directly behind the wing mount bolts. The 2 front motor mount screws should not interfere with the seal compression, since they will be recessed in the sheeting, and the foam seal will probably not compress thinner than the remaing protruding screw head. I still may have to grind a hair off of the screw heads to ensure good seal compression. The 2 rear motor mount bolts are not located between the wing and the top cabin flange, so they will not be an issue.

There are also nylon flange bushings glued into the motor mount holes on the bottom of the wing. The flange adds support area so the screws do not pull through the wooden mount in the rear of the foam wing core. I also got a lucky bonus when I realized that the threaded inserts in the rear of my aluminum motor mount bracket are split-lock PEMs. They hold a screw from backing out, like a deformed aircraft nut. The 2 rear motor mount bolts are the ones that I really want to stay in place.:eek:

Bill

Bill G
04-11-2007, 06:42 AM
:eek: Well it happened at last, I got the wing sheeted.

Sheeting the foam core wing
The fabrication work for the panels was quite a job, since I had to join several sheets of 1/32" balsa, due to the size of the wing panels. I use the painter's tape to first join the seams on the side that will be face-up when sheeted. The CA glue is applied to the other side. Before applying glue to the seams, first rub the seam line with your finger, so that the panel surfaces will be flush on the side that will be exposed after sheeting. Balsa sheets are not always exactly the same thickness.

The first pic shows painter's tape applied to the balsa perimeter frame and the wooden dowel rod on the LE. These areas need to be masked off, since the contact spray reaks havoc on wood, if you intend to CA glue anything to it in the future. Learned this the hard way in the past. After spraying the 3M77 contact spray to the foam wing core, the tape is removed, and the sheeting is carefully applied. Since you basically only get one chance:eek: at laying the sheeting, the panels were pre-trimmed to fit perfectly. Looking closely, a temporary dowel locator was added to one of the motor mount bolt holes in the wing, to help locate the sheeting. The cutouts for the wing float mounting tabs were used as locators for the outer part of the sheeting panels, when positioning them. As expected, these cutouts in the sheeting required tweaking to make them into precise locators.

The second pic shows a few stringers added to the wing extension bottom area. The top of the wing ends were sheeted with the grain running in the direction of the chord, so the sheeting used the formers for support in the cross-grain direction. On the wing bottom, there was simply not enough support for 1/32" sheeting without the added stringers, since the sheeting grain runs in the opposite direction.

Last pic: A sheeted wing. Still far from completed.:eek: Still needs the aileron servo to be mounted, and the Horner tips with lights, support struts, and floats to be fabricated.

Wing-Cabin Seal
The third pic shows the consistent gap for the foam seal between the top cabin flange and the wing bottom. With the wing located in place on its dowel pins, the gap is perfect. The wing will gently compress the seal as it is slid in place. Too small of a clearance, and the wing will try to push the foam seal out of place, as its being installed. Obviously, the wing will have to be held up at a small angle while sliding it in place on the dowels. Once in place, the rear hold down bolt will apply pressure to the remainder of the sealing area.

Bill

ElectricFlyGuy
04-11-2007, 07:03 AM
Wow Bill, you been busy!!!!!!!!! Awsome job so far. Chat later :), Scott

Bill G
04-11-2007, 07:18 AM
Wow Bill, you been busy!!!!!!!!! Awsome job so far. Chat later :), Scott
I'm amazed, there's actually people online now.:eek: 2 views on the pics already, at this time of night.

Bill

Bill G
04-12-2007, 05:25 AM
More sculpted parts made. Only the roof to go!:D It's not exactly like it will be done in a week now:eek:, but the difficult parts are slowly being knocked out.

The Horner wing tips are basically finished, with a bit of fine sculpting that will be done after gluing them to the wing ends.

I decided to make the floats from a series of laminated sections, that will be sculpted after gluing them together. I found some light 1/4" sheet balsa to cut them from. After cutting out 8 of them, I'd about had enough of them.:eek: Still had to make a few more sections from thinner balsa, to make them thick enough. I cut away the center of the inner sections for lightening. The parts weigh a bit less than 1-1/2 oz total, and will be a lot lighter after sculpting.

Bill

Bill G
04-13-2007, 05:53 AM
Not much new progress, but still forging ahead on the wing floats. After sanding off most of the excess material to shape the floats, they are now down to less than 1-1/4oz for the pair. To make these parts look scale, it requires finding a number of pictures taken from different angles. They look different in every shot, and confusing the matter more, there appears to be different styles.:eek: They will take a while to shape the slightly dished out hulls and get all the contours correct. I thought about molding glass parts from the balsa floats. I could join 2 halves together and leave a small flange seam, which would look just like the center flange seam on the full size floats. May do this later and make an extra set of floats, AFTER:eek: this thing is finished.

BTW, the second pic's a real one. I hope mine look that good when done.:D

Bill

Bill G
04-17-2007, 07:41 PM
Not much new, since I've been away for a few days.
But...they had a hobby shop there!:D Just a mile away.

I got some aluminum oval struts for the wings, a H9 pilot, and some other stuff for the project. The floats are now mounted on their struts. They will need farings made to blend into the floats and will be rounded at the edges. The struts were made by laminating 3 sections of square stock balsa together, since I didn't have large enough rect stock. I bought a pile of fittings to spread out and stare at, to decide how to attach the struts and floats, which is mostly worked out now.

One thing that worked well, was using laminated layers to make the float bodies. The center of the hull has a lamination layer of CA, which hardens the centerline of the hulls. This makes it much easier to shape the "V" peaks of the hulls and make them sharp, without nicking them or accidentally sanding dings into them.

Still deciding how to finish these floats. May prime-sand-paint, or may glass the wood cores with lightweight cloth. I'm a big iron-on fan, but I'm not going to try to cover the floats with iron-on.:eek:

Bill

Chris F
04-18-2007, 10:22 PM
Great work Bill, you're making good progress. It looks very much like a Seabee now.

Bill G
04-19-2007, 06:35 AM
Thanks Chris. I really need to stay motivated on this project now, since it seems like it will be going forever.:eek:

I'll try to make this the last wing float post, since they're probably getting old.:D Getting old on this end too. There's just too many steps to making good looking scale floats that have all the stamping lines/curves of the originals properly replicated. They started with the laminated sheets which were rough carved to shape. They were then rough sanded and fine sanded, and primed.

The first pic shows the floats after the first coat of high build primer. Thin primer would get you nowhere fast.:eek: They still look pretty rough. The second pic shows the floats after sanding the first primer coat, and repriming. Much better now. They will still need yet another prime and sand, after this second coat is sanded, and should then be presentable.

I also installed the HS81 aileron servo, stolen from another plane. It was larger than that plane needed anyways, so I replaced it with a lighter one, for an even trade. The servo was basically stuffed into a cutout, and then captured around its perimeter with thin basswood that is glued to the sheeting, which holds it firmly in place. I don't like to epoxy servos into place, in case they need to be removed in the future.

This will be the best cable job I've done to date. After learning the ins and outs of cables, I've found the 2 main rules are: route the cables at 90 deg to the aileron horns, and keep the exposed lengths short. Routing at an angle to the aileron servos makes the ailerons flappy.:eek: To keep the exposed lengths short, the trick is to attach the cable to one of the inner holes on the aileron horns, thus requiring short throws at both the ailerons, and the servo. This will minimize the "arc" that the aileron and servo horns will need to travel through, and keep the motion more linear, thus allowing for short exposed cable lengths without bind. When the exposed cable length at the servo is too great, the cable will tend to "s" bend, and will create both slop and poor centering of the ailerons.

Bill G
04-20-2007, 06:11 AM
Made some scale oleo struts today, using plastic tubing and pinpoint hinges. They are not functional, but look better than a piece of bare wire for a strut leg.:eek:

The strut piston (center section) will be silver, with the other parts painted to match the plane. The bottom of the struts have wheel collars pressed into them, which are used to mount the wheel axle bolts which lock against a flat on the inner strut leg. The axle bolts are threaded into the collars, after sliding the struts over the inner wire strut leg. All of the strut parts are indexed with flats filed on them, so assembly is easy.

I also made the strut pivot arms using some pieces of plastic square stock, which were glued to pinpoint hinges and then slit down the center, spread open to make 2 separate arms. Triangles were glued inside these arms. They will be glued to the strut covers.

Bill

Bill G
04-21-2007, 07:10 AM
Finished my gear struts. All these details were made from simple parts: plastic and alum tubing, nylon shoulder bushings, pinpoint hinges, square plastic stock, wire, and aluminized duct tape. In the background of the second pic, is a cardboard template with a hole cut out, used for painting the wheel hubs. This worked much better than the masking tape I've used in the past, since it will stay on the hum after pushing it over the outer rim.

I may add simulated brake lines, and I loosely hung a piece of wire over the gear struts, just to see what it would look like. In the last pic, I slid pieces of aluminum tubing over the wire, to simulate the attachment clamps and the tubing connector where the brake line will connect to the outer fuse. I'll probably add this detail.

The second pic shows a rubber tubing seal installed over the pivot rod that exits the fuse. It slides over the aluminum tubing housing and seals against the inner rod surface. There is little clearance between the two parts for water to enter in, but I dont want the inner steel shaft to rust, and seize. A simulated seal flange slides over the tubing seal (seen in the foreground), which is made from a nylon shoulder bushing. Black prop spacers were slid over the plastic shafts that inserts into these bushings, to simulate the water seals on the full size plane.

Bill

Grasshopper
04-21-2007, 01:08 PM
Very Nice Bill. Keep up the good work.

E-Challenged
04-22-2007, 03:15 AM
The gear is looking great. I have had problems with centering using single aileron servo and flexible cable. I used two 4.3 gm Blue Arrow aileron servos in my Tritle Cessna 140 with EZ connectors at the aileron horns. Very easy to adjust. Aileron horns are angled forward to give more up than down motion. Haven't tried mixing to get true differential aileron yet.
I like using aileron rudder mix to counter adverse yaw.

Bill G
04-22-2007, 06:52 AM
The gear is looking great. I have had problems with centering using single aileron servo and flexible cable. I used two 4.3 gm Blue Arrow aileron servos in my Tritle Cessna 140 with EZ connectors at the aileron horns. Very easy to adjust. Aileron horns are angled forward to give more up than down motion. Haven't tried mixing to get true differential aileron yet.
I like using aileron rudder mix to counter adverse yaw.

Thanks for the comments Grasshopper.

E-C, I actually thought about using 2 of my 4.3 Blue Arrow servos that I have laying around, for the ailerons. Its all a trade-off. Individual servos with hard wire linkage are always tighter, but then you have to run the wire harnessing, and they are installed in an exposed portion of the wing, which makes removal more difficult. They could be mounted to be removable, but then again there is the water issue with this plane. The main reason I went with the single center mounted servo is to mount it inside the cabin in an unseen area, away from the water, where it can be removed and reinstalled without having to make it pretty. With my luck, if I set something in stone, it will have to come out again.:eek:

This cable setup is the tighest one I've done yet, but there is still the slightest bit of "s" bending in the cable, when moved in either direction from center. I've found the solutions for good centering are to use the inner servo and aileron control horn arm holes for short movement/fast response, and to keep the exposed cable lengths short. Since the servo arm travels through an arc, you have to shoot for a happy medium. Mount the servo such that the E-Z link on the servo arm is aligned with the bottom surface of the wing, where the cable routes along the wing surface. As the servo arm rotates, it will bend the cable a bit, causing some friction at the point where they enter the cable sleve, but at center position the cable will be perfectly in line with the cable sleeves, minimizing flex and bind.

All said, there is still a bit of centering slop, mostly due to control arm flex. The darn E-Z link holes are obviously not in-line with the servo horn, so they torque it. With s-bend linkage rods, or rods with clevises, this problem does not exist, such as with individual servos in the wing panels.

The bottom line is I'm pretty happy with the minimal freeplay/slop in this cable system, but they are fussy and have to be done right. This setup only has a mere 1 inch of free cable on either side of the aileron horn, and I've determined that is about the max unsheathed cable length allowed for a tight setup. Not much leeway in these cable setups. I have a few that were done a while ago in my cable learning process, that are pretty mushy.:eek:

Bill

E-Challenged
04-23-2007, 05:46 PM
Didn't think about servo arm exit /water entry hole in wing. I imagine a piece of ballon rubber tied to servo arm and glued to wing with canopy glue to keep water out. Would probably last a few months before needing replacement. Maybe there are some kind of bellows-like rubber toggle switch covers for marine applications that would work. Model boat item?
http://www.amazon.com/7050-Marine-Black-Rubber-Boot/dp/B000AU4SJ4/ref=sr_1_278/002-1416823-3246466?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1177347457&sr=1-278

E-Challenged
04-24-2007, 04:56 AM
I actually found some toggle switch rubber boots that might work. Guys on E-Zone suggested using a piece of condom or a piece of finger out of latex glove. I was even wondering about using a piece of creepy crawly plastic bass fishing worm somehow.:D

Bill G
04-24-2007, 05:41 AM
I actually found some toggle switch rubber boots that might work. Guys on E-Zone suggested using a piece of condom or a piece of finger out of latex glove. I was even wondering about using a piece of creepy crawly plastic bass fishing worm somehow.:D
I was actually thinking about water getting into the sheeting as well as the servo itself, since the plane has sheeted foam core wings.

I saw some Parkzone aileron linkage wire covers today at the LHS. I was thinking that they could be used to cover a linkage wire, with the aileron servo already sealed well into a wing panel. If you made a slit rubber flap at the opening, kindof like the rubber flaps on the parking brake lever box on a car:D, it would keep the water out pretty well, although not perfectly. I bought a few that I may use to simulate the the type of lever arms used on a full size Seabee's ailerons. The idea will be to use them to hide the aileron cables where they are exposed at the wing. Won't exactly look like the scale lever arms, but will look more cerrect than the exposed cables will, from a distance.:eek: I'll have to see how they look when I get home tomorrow.

Bill

Bill G
04-25-2007, 08:38 PM
I finally have this brushed, of all things, power system up to par, if it holds up and doesn't explode.:eek:
The gearing was originally 3.1:1, which I pretty much knew would be too steep, since I've used the setup with a 9070 prop with 2.5:1 gearing. I figured that a 9070 3-blader would add sufficient load for the 3.1 ratio to be practical. It didn't, and was not much over 115W on 3s.

I changed to a 1070 3-blade prop, which required the making of an 1/8" shim to lift the motor mount up a bit higher off the wing, for needed prop clearance. Got the power up to 175W, but still probably not enough. The Maxx 4011 cobalt lists the motor at 23.5A using a 6x4 prop with an 8V constant power supply. I wanted the 3s setup to reach the 23.5A figure, with hopeflully more for short takeoff burst.

Next, I got out the Dremel to modify the custom gearbox once again,:D to accomodate a new drive gear. I found a larger drive gear that was a Parkzone replacement part. It was better than the first gear that I used, since it pressed tightly onto the 1/8" dia motor shaft, and did not need a keyed setup like the first gear did. I thought that the 9070 3-blader would now be useful, with the new 2.1:1 ratio, but it just didn't have the gains I wanted, and was still less than the original gearing with the larger 1070 3-blader prop, so I put the 1070 prop on and re-tested:
Reached 265W on 3s and still not at full throttle!:eek: I don't want to destroy this motor, although it is a strong motor, so I stopped there. Should have plenty of power now, for an airplane that may go a few ounces over 4 pounds.

Bill

Bill G
04-26-2007, 07:14 AM
Made the inner linkage for the wing struts. I found some aluminum tube that is perfect for the job. The tubing is reinforced with wooden dowel rod, for strength, and makes a good attachment point for the linkage at the ends of the struts.

The first pic shows the assembly scheme. The pic's a bit flushed, but the top strut end in the pic shows the "exploded" view of the parts. When finished, the strut ends will have farings made over the ends, like the farings in the picture of the full size plane. In the second pic, I filed the ends with a taper, to meet the fuse wall flush when assembled in postion. The linkage hinges are recessed into the aluminum body, so they will not be seen, when the farings are added, and the struts are assembled to the plane.

Also in the background are covering pices cut for the tail feathers. I figured that I better start doing some of the covering, so I don't have to do it all at once, at the end.:eek: Still debating on whether I'll cover the fuse, or finish it with a good dope paint system, since it will be a bear to cover.:eek:

Bill

Bill G
04-27-2007, 05:20 PM
Finally put a retract servo in this thing. I set the gear up with an intermediate size non-retract servo, since it was what I had. Works much better with a real retract servo. Like everything that you touch on this plane, I spent a good few hours tweaking the installation. I've always used non-retract servos on my smaller plane's retractable gear sets, so this is actually the first retract servo I've ever bought. The slow steady action looks fairly realistic.

Bill

Bill G
04-28-2007, 07:25 AM
Earlier I had metioned that this plane was flown by James Bond, in the Man With the Golden Gun.
Unlike James Bond, I found out today that Sig Sanding Sealer is to be "stirred, and not shaken".:eek: :D
Didn't sand very well, as it was pretty hard, being mostly just butyrate dope. I got a good result after stirring up the solids at the bottom of the bottle, and applying a second coat and then sanding.

Also covered the tail feathers today. The spar construction worked well at simulating the ribbed aluminum skin on the full size Seabee tail feathers (3rd pic). Both white marker lights are lit on the rudder, in the second pic below.

Bill

Bill G
04-30-2007, 06:23 AM
Made the wingtip lights from cutaway sections of a Guillows prop spinner, which worked well for the lens housing shape. I've found the thin Guillows plastic to be quite useful for things like this. The wing Horner tips are now glued on and the lights are working

Finished the float detail. The floats were painted with flat white Dollar Store buck-a-can paint:D that I had laying around, and then clear coated with Testors clear. Worked well.
The light blue was sprayed from Testors, you guessed it, Light Blue, and the dark blue stripes were applied with decal trim, which adheres quite well to fresh paint. It should stay on just fine in the water.
These floats are really giving me an idea of what this thing might look like, when its finished.

Also in the float pic is the brake lines, which have been attached to the landing gear. The ends will be glued into hole drilled into the fuse, after the fuse is finished.

Discovered Dope and Sanding Sealer is not only for doped finishes:
I've also been impressed with the Sig Sanding Sealer and dope. I should have used these dope products a long time ago. (ok so that didn't quite sound right:eek:) I've always been a sheeting fanatic, but I figured that I did not need to use these products, since I use iron-on coverings. The major benefit of the sanding sealer is that it provides a consistent surface for finish sanding. Otherwise, its nearly impossible to get a perfect result when sanding sheeted surfaces, since the balsa, CA seams, and filler is all of different hardnesses. I've killed myself in the past, trying to get these surfaces smooth.:eek:
The other benefit besides waterproofing, is that it strengthens the balsa and adds dent resistance. I'll be using these products in the future.

Bill

Chris F
05-01-2007, 06:15 AM
Hi Bill,

It's looking great! Just the finish on the floats is mighty impressive. The rest of it will be truly fantastic. You should enter it in the RCG build off :D. The Dblum build stopped when you left. No one will have a Seabee as nice as yours ;), karma maybe?:p

Bill G
05-01-2007, 08:24 AM
Hi Bill,

It's looking great! Just the finish on the floats is mighty impressive. The rest of it will be truly fantastic. You should enter it in the RCG build off :D. The Dblum build stopped when you left. No one will have a Seabee as nice as yours ;), karma maybe?:p
Thanks for the comments. Actually the guy who owns the full size Seabee that I am replicating will have a Seabee as nice as mine, but his won't fit in a car.:D

I would need a plan to compete in the build off.
I thought about designing an ACAD drawing for the plane, but it would probably take months. I used DBlum's 2-view drawing, and drew in the parts by hand with a pencil. Some of the part outlines were in Dave's drawing. I referenced an online build of the Tom Mountjoy plan for ideas. That build was heavily modified, but the boom was still not scale. That said, it would be nice to have a good scale Seabee plan out there, which would be my motivation, if I were to draw up this design.
I have gotten in touch with the builder of the build that I referenced, and he is now working on an impressive glass fuse design:
http://hangaren.pointclark.net/gallery/scale-seabee

If I did design a build plan, it would probably be a clean design since I could tweak the current design, now that I already have built it. My problem is that I like to get right down to building, without spending much time on designing, so my plans are usually enlarged 3-views with a bunch of stuff sketched on them.:eek: It would be difficult for me to get motivated to put the CAD time in, to draw up this build.

As far as RCG is concerned, after the nonsense I got there, I will post a completed picture of the plane when it is finished, after I am allowed to log on again in about 2 weeks. I'll show it with the view count from here, and note that it would have been about 10 times that in their RCG Scale Forum. Their loss, I'm happy keeping it here.:D

New Progress:
I made the interior panels, and will probably start working on a removable floor with seats, which can be removed to service the servos underneath. The plane will have a scale interior, where the only disruption is that some of the battery may be seen if you peer way into the front of the interior. The passenger seat and a small portion of the floor around it will probably be a single removable part, for the battery access. When I get this scale interior completed, the H9 pilot will look stupid, since he has no legs.:D

Bill

Bill G
05-02-2007, 07:24 AM
The first pic is just a "slap together" assembly of what everything's starting to look like.

Engine Cover
I glassed the engine cover mold, and had to make a decision on what resin to use. I've used USC glass resin before, but I'm an impatient fool who does not like the 12 hour cure time. Also, the glass tends to get bubbles and wrinkles that have to be continuously worked out, so the faster it sets, the better, as you have to pay attention to it during that time.

I thought about thinned epoxy, but haven't experimented with it, to be familiar with it. Then I found this System Three boat epoxy trial kit that dad must have acquired about 20 years ago. It had everything, inculding various fillers. The stuff is an absolutely odorless waterbase system, which was nice to work with.

I didn't want to add multiple layers of Saran wrap, as it inevitably has a few wrinkles, even after stretching, and multiple layers just add more imperfections to the finished glass piece. In the past, I've had pinholes and/or tears that I had not seen, which allowed the USC resin to eat the mold. One time I was very fortunate that the resin had set before it started eating the mold. I got a perfect cowl for a Hellcat, but the mold was half-gone:eek: when I removed it. This System Three epoxy does not eat foam.

I started brushing it over the glass, and had a bit of concern with the hardening of "age old" epoxy. I had to filter the resin, since it had some flakes in it, which is a sign of aging epoxy. Some resins will literally turn to 100% hard crystallized junk, after time.

Well my concerns disappeared when the mixing pot cup next to me started smoking.:< I hurried it outside and returned to completing the application. The next step will be a coating of bondo and sanding.

I had wanted to preserve the foam mold, but I'll probably end up hogging it out. Still can always use the glass cowl to make a mold, in the future. Still may be able to work the cowl off of the mold without destroying it. Since the front grille vent will be cut out, I could slit that area, and would only have to reattach the small area of the cowl frame below the vent opening.

Bill

Bill G
05-04-2007, 06:58 AM
The thick primer on the engine cowl was sanded with the cowl still on the mold, and gave a good result and was actually still a complete coat, unlike it is now with it almost all gone.:eek:
I ran into a small problem after removing the cowl from the mold, since the epoxy was not stiff enough to hold shape as well as the part required. I added a layer of glass to the inside, but also got a bit of waviness in the outer surface, in the process. The thick scratch filling primer was then almost completely sanded off, which allowed for filling of the worst low areas. Another heavy prime and sand, and it should be ready to paint.
The epoxy used probably would be good for glassing foam wings.

The part fits the wing well, and now has the front and rear openings cutout. I shaped a wire loop for the rear opening, which is CA glued inside the opening to stiffen the area. Also dampened and shaped 1/8" balsa square strip and glued along the bottom flange, to allow for minor shaping for a perfect fit to the wing. This balsa will have to be doped like the rest of the balsa used in the build, for waterproofing.
Also checked to make sure that the motor mount and motor would fit properly, with the cowl installed over the motor. Don't want to find problems here down the road.:<

Bill

Bill G
05-06-2007, 06:46 AM
About time I post agian. I didn't plan on my last "Cubs on Floats" post to stay there that long.:eek:

Finished the fiberglass engine cowl, and painted the white basecoat. Will need the light and dark blue striping to be added to complete. The rear bottom lip locks in place under the motor mount when installed in place, so I may simply use a rare earth magnet to lock the front down to the top wing surface. Keep it simple and easily servicable.

The interior side panels are also installed. They were made from dope treated 1/32" balsa sheet, and covered with iron-on covering, which was painted over. The interior will have a false removable floor with seats. The passenger seat and floor section under the seat will be a removable piece, for battery access. I'm even thinking of mounting the lighting switch assembly behind the instrument panel, since it will fit behind it. I'm using a pull rod switch mount, with a ball that is mounted on the pull rod. Should be a nice scale feature to have the pull switch mounted on the instrument panel.

Bill

Bill G
05-06-2007, 02:55 PM
In the first pic, the raised ribs in the sheetmetal below the window line were added, which were made from strips of thin 1/32" balsa sheet. The white spots on them are paint, used to cover the pen markings which would otherwise show through the white covering. The balsa strips were doped to harden them, before gluing them to the plane, so they will hopefully not be crushed/dented by the iron when the covering is applied over them. They will add extra effort to the covering job, but the detail should be worth it.

The second pic shows the basic removable roof framing parts, with the base and the rear former made. Foam seal tape will be applied to the bottom of the base frame, and to the rear former which will seal against the wing saddle plate on the cabin. These are basically the last of the parts that take forever to shape precisely.:eek: Woohoo!:D

I made a list of all the remaining parts and tasks yet to be completed, and it is still a mile long.

Bill

E-Challenged
05-07-2007, 04:45 AM
Your Seabee is looking great. Your are an innovative designer/craftsman. Hope you make the plans available after sucessful maiden and subsequent flights.

I made a list of things to do on my "build off" P-26 Peashooter with hour estimates for each totalling about 56 hours or two weeks worth of fairly steady work, must maiden before end of month. Bought a larger low KV Scorpion 2215-22 outrunner motor at a model swap meet that will interchange with my AXI 2212/26 if needed, same mounting hole spacing. Saw videos of E-Zoner's Short Sunderland trying to take off, not quite enough urge, hope you have planned for some surplus of power.

Bill G
05-07-2007, 08:23 AM
Your Seabee is looking great. Your are an innovative designer/craftsman. Hope you make the plans available after sucessful maiden and subsequent flights.

I made a list of things to do on my "build off" P-26 Peashooter with hour estimates for each totalling about 56 hours or two weeks worth of fairly steady work, must maiden before end of month. Bought a larger low KV Scorpion 2215-22 outrunner motor at a model swap meet that will interchange with my AXI 2212/26 if needed, same mounting hole spacing. Saw videos of E-Zoner's Short Sunderland trying to take off, not quite enough urge, hope you have planned for some surplus of power.

Making plans for this plane would simply be insane.:eek: If I ever did document all the individual add-ons that I put onto this plane, versus other more simplistic builds that I've seen, then nobody would ever build the 4 page plan airplane.:D

The problem with this plane is that there are so many custom carved, sculpted, and fiberglass parts and custom operations, that just can't really be documented on a plan. If a builder has the skill to take on all those tasks, they probably will find scratching the basic plane together from a 3-view, to be the easy part.

What I would reccomend is to take the Mountjoy plan, and stretch the cabin to make it scale. That is what another builder did, with their build of the Mountjoy plan. I followed that build online of the Mountjoy plan, as a basic reference. For the tailboom, I would simply (well maybe:eek:) modify the plan's tailboom formers to make them scale, versus the simplified boom of that plan, that just looks wrong. Since my build is the same scale as the Mountjoy plan, I think that a good contribution to future Seabee builds would be for me to make and offer glass floats and engine cowls, using my parts to make molds. As far as I know, I have the only truly scale sculpted floats for the plane at this scale.

There is also a Cleveland plan for this plane, although I know nothing about it. If it is a good plan, I would reccomend starting from there, and adding whatever customizations that the builder desires. Another option is a glass kit that is available. The cost could be very high and still be worth it, when you consider all the work of building this plane's fuse.

I'll have to look at your Peashooter. Still haven't flown mine, and was actually debating it today. Too much sentimental value.:<
Edit: Just looked at it. Looks good, and pretty far along now. Looks like you have a lot of effort into that cowl. Are you going to glass the outside? Also, the Sterling kit I have uses a sheeted structure for the gear pants, and has small molded plastic parts for the wheel covers, which is an easy route. Trust me, I know firsthand how much effort goes into these sculpted balsa parts.:eek: :eek: Ask me how I know this.:D I guess If you're making a plan for the contest, you would have to offer the parts, if you put that type of design on the plan.

As for power, I have ran my setup to 265W on 3s, and did not want to push it harder, but could have. I'm hoping to have enough at about a 4-1/2 lb airplane. The planned setup is a 2900kv motor geared 2.1:1 with a 10x7 3-blader. Feels pretty powerful on test, which I've done. A little scary holding the motor and mount in your hand.:< Off top of head, it seems about the same as my AXI 2820 outrunner with the same prop, on a Hellcat.

Seabee progress:
The basic removable roof frame is complete, and will be sheeted over the framing. The opening in the front area is for the skylight window. It will be framed in to support the glass, and the framing is now underway after this pic was taken.
To install, the roof slides under the engine cover, and against the wing saddle bulkhead. The small area of the roof that blends into the wing still needs to be fabbed, and will be part of the wing.

Bill

Bill G
05-08-2007, 08:02 AM
The roof is now sheeted and mostly complete. The first pic shows the balsa sunroof framing added to the front. The glass will be glued along the perimiter, and will be overlapped slightly with the iron-on covering for a clean outline, with the glass blending in with the roof surface.

The sheeted roof in the second pic required a bit of planing on the bottom flange, to create a flat seal surface for the foam seal. Like most parts on this plane, the custom fitting often takes almost as much time as building the part. The fit at the wing and against the engine cowl turned out quite well, after a bit of tweaking. Still need to add the remaining part of the roofline to the front of the wing, where the roof blends into the wing.

Bill

ElectricFlyGuy
05-09-2007, 12:06 AM
Awsome looking JOB you are doing on that SeaBee!!!!!!!!!! See the enclosed address to send it to, when you are finished :D> Take care, Scott

Bill G
05-09-2007, 05:42 AM
Awsome looking JOB you are doing on that SeaBee!!!!!!!!!! See the enclosed address to send it to, when you are finished :D> Take care, Scott
Thanks EFG
How 'bout giving me the address to that video? I'd like to see it, but I'm not going to search that monstrous nonsense site trying to find it.:D They keep giving me points after I've left.:eek: I'm not logging on to a site, that gets money (in so many words) for viewer logon numbers from their advertisers. Even after logging on, I still can't search there. I don't miss that place at all.

As for sending the Seabee, I think this one will be a keeper.:D I did once ship a guy a 262 for free, minus shipping. He had bought another plane from me. There still may be hope. GP now has a Catalina, of all things. Maybe somebody will pick up this oddball subject, someday. I think it would sell. There is a kit out there, but its a high end, high cost kit. Would be nice to have a parkflyer version.

There's always this very inexpensive version below, but it doesn't quite get it::D
no, I didn't accidentally run over my Seabee

Bill

Bill G
05-09-2007, 07:35 AM
Fillets

Finished the roof fillet that blends into the wing and engine cover today. The initial fillets made for the wing did not quite do the job, since there was an area of the roof that was too low.
My new method for finishing low areas beyond 1/32", is to pad with balsa sheet first, sand close to shape as possible, and then add filler. In the past, I would try to do "bondo bodywork":eek: by adding a pile of filler, sanding, adding more, oversanding:eek:, etc...
The first pic shows the low area of the blend between the 2 parts, filled and sanded with sheet balsa. Next (second pic) the area is covered with a thin layer of filler.
Also in the pic is the template made for the wire grille, yet to be fabricated.

The wing positon is held constant by the dowel locators, and will compress the Hayes wing saddle foam that will be installed. For the roof's installed position, I approximated the thinner 3M Microfoam one-sided stick foam tape, by shimming the roof with thin cardboard. This was necessary to ensure that the roof seam would be aligned, after the foam seal is installed. I would like to use the thicker wing saddle foam for the roof seal also, but I don't care for the appearance of a thick seal in this mating area. I spent a few hours planing/padding areas of the roof-to-cabin mating flange, so that the seal gap would be consistent within a few thousandths, where the hold down area has a slightly larger gap, to ensure compression of the entire seal.

I'm planning to use strong 3/8" dia rare earth magnets at the front window pillar area, on both sides of the roof. Since the full size plane has an antenna on the roof, I will probably add a scale antenna to be used to pull open the roof.

The 3rd pic shows the finished result of the roof blend. I think this is the last of the difficult fits, with only the interior subfloor and seats being the major remaining parts to go.

Bill

ElectricFlyGuy
05-10-2007, 04:05 AM
Video? I have no videos posted in any forums, only pics of my free flyer conversion. The photos are here in this forum now also. I will post the link for you when I find em' :). Take care, Scott.OK, found it>> http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=153234&postcount=24

Thanks EFG
How 'bout giving me the address to that video? I'd like to see it, but I'm not going to search that monstrous nonsense site trying to find it.:D
Bill

Bill G
05-10-2007, 07:14 AM
Video? I have no videos posted in any forums, only pics of my free flyer conversion. The photos are here in this forum now also. I will post the link for you when I find em' :). Take care, Scott.OK, found it>> http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=153234&postcount=24
Sorry, I got your post confused with E-Challenged's post about a Short Sunderland video.:eek:
You were probably wondering what the heck I was talking about.:D

Seabee magnetic roof hold down
After thinking about this a bit, I decided to add a center brace to the top cabin window line, for mounting the cabin side magnet. The added cross-brace is not a bad idea in itself, since I've had nightmares about the roofline being demolished in a light mishap.

For anyone who has ever seen the cartoon where the Cuyote turns on the massive magnet that starts drawing ships out of the ocean:eek:, these 1/2" dia rare earth magnets are that strong, so I determined one magnet pair would be enough. In the first pic, a cutout was made for the magnet in the cross-brace, which meets the inner roof inside the skylight. Since this area can be seen through the glass, I wanted the cross-brace to closely meet the inner roofline for a clean appearance, when the roof is installed in place. Notice that the half-circle cutout is deeper than the magnet that will be glued into the cutout. This is to lock the roof magnet in alignment with the cabin magnet, so that pressure will be maintained against the rear foam seal of the roof. Also notice a small drill bit in the center of the cabin magnet mounting area. The roof was next installed, and the drill bit was turned by hand, to mark the center spot for the roor magnet's location.

In the second pic, the roof magnet can be seen in place. The ply braces on the sides of the roof center spar were not originally in place, when the magnet was lightly tack glued in place. I did this so that I could break it off and relocate it, if the alignment was not perfect. Well I hit it perfectly on the first shot, and without the added ply braces, I could quickly tell by the sound of shearing balsa that the magnet would tear right off if I tried to remove the roof. I used a knife to carefully pry them apart, and then added ply spars along the center spar of the roof magnet mount, for a strong permanent installation.

The third pic (fuzzy) shows the roof in place, with small pieces of the seal material in place, to verify proper seal compression. The window glass is also cut and laying in place, but not glued down yet.
Why some pics are fuzzy I haven't figured out yet. There will be no more yellow pictures, however. I determined they were due to the 250W sun lamp that lights the area:eek:, so I turn it off now when taking pics. That lamp's beam is carefully aimed to be away from any planes hanging in close perimeter, since it will literally vaporize any covering within 1 foot of it.

The real challenge of this build
What makes all these fits such a job is that the plane is a scratch build made for hand cut parts derived off of a 2-view drawing, and not even a plan.:eek: Had this been a CAD designed laser-cut kit, these areas would only require a bit of adjustment. Since its not that, these critical mating/sealing surfaces, such as the wing and roof, require massive work to hold one directional tolerances of as little as .010", so that the seals will work properly, and so that the parts align properly.
Well all those areas are finished now, so I get to do easy things like make seats for the interior now.:D

Bill

E-Challenged
05-10-2007, 03:58 PM
Nasal spray does not bond balsa worth a darn! I have had the same experience doing basic design from three views, then more detailed design, building, redesigning and keeping up building momentum in completing my Peashooter before the contest deadline. It would have helped if I had prior designing experience but I had to translate old Comet kit building experience to designing a three dimensional fuselage etc, that not only looks like the real thing but has some hope of flying well. Without the deadline, I probably would have stalled at some point due to laziness, model flying activity and other activity. Your project is much more involved and you don't a deadline pushing you. Kudos!

Bill G
05-11-2007, 05:43 AM
Nasal spray does not bond balsa worth a darn! I have had the same experience doing basic design from three views, then more detailed design, building, redesigning and keeping up building momentum in completing my Peashooter before the contest deadline. It would have helped if I had prior designing experience but I had to translate old Comet kit building experience to designing a three dimensional fuselage etc, that not only looks like the real thing but has some hope of flying well. Without the deadline, I probably would have stalled at some point due to laziness, model flying activity and other activity. Your project is much more involved and you don't a deadline pushing you. Kudos!

...and CA does not do a very good job of opening clogged nasal passages either.:blah:

As for the redesign part, that is one of the reasons why this build would not translate into a good plan. Originally, I was tracing all my parts to document them. Then ended up changing so much, often after being glued onto the build, that it just became a hopeless effort.:eek:
The other problem is that for a plane like the Seabee, I would need a copy of ProEngineer at home (anyone care to buy me one:D). I spent enough years doing the 3D ProE thing, that I would have no desire to design this plane in 2D, like Autocad. Once you design the 3D model, you get the 2D views for free. I'm far to lazy to break out my old copy of ACAD LT97, get back up to pace with the junk, and then draw up a plane like this.:D

No kidding there!:D Much more involved than I expected it to be, and I knew I was in for a lot, at the start. I envisioned it just flying together, after the completion of the fuse. Well the fuse has been completed for quite some time now, and I still have a good ways to go before all the detail are done. You make a part for this thing, and there's still 10 more operations to be done to it, before it is complete.:eek:

Seabee progress, if that's what you want to call it::eek:
Striped the engine cover tonight. I cheated and used decal trim for the dark blue, after spraying the light blue, which saved a good bit of effort. Probably made the stripes come out a lot cleaner than if I had tried to mask all of them twice as a 2-tone paint job.

MAN AM I TIRED! I fell asleep while adding the last paragraph of this post, woke up, and didn't know what was going on. Did I post it yet? Was I going back in once again to edit the post? Clueless!

Bill

E-Challenged
05-11-2007, 02:46 PM
You do better much with graphics in your sleep than I do while awake. I keep wondering if the Seabee is going to fly based on details per cubic inch. Hang in there.

Bill G
05-13-2007, 06:47 AM
You do better much with graphics in your sleep than I do while awake. I keep wondering if the Seabee is going to fly based on details per cubic inch. Hang in there. The problem will be braving flight after all these details.
I wonder if crashing into water is very forgiving?::o

Finished covering and installing the skylight glass today.
The bottom was first covered with white Econokote. Next, the glass was glued onto the frame. A small flat area of about 1/16" was sanded onto the glass frame area, before gluing. After installing the glass, the edges of the window glass (really clear plastic) were carefully tapered to meet the contour of the roofline. This way, the glass will blend into the roofline after covering the top of the roof with iron-on. The final step is to score the iron-on covering with an exacto blade to make the window perimeter, and then peel off the covering to expose the window. To make this easy, the covering was ironed onto window about 1/16" past where the window line was to be scored. You definitely don't want to iron the covering onto the entire window, as it would be tough to pull off, and the iron heat would warp the clear window plastis.


Bill

Bill G
05-14-2007, 06:30 AM
Figured I'd get the motor housing magnetic mounting out of the way. The same magnets that hold the roof down were used. A 1/32" ply floor was made inside the front of the cover for magnet mounting, and for a cleaner look, when viewing inside the front cooling air opening. The rear of the cover is held down by a recessed cut at the bottom of the motor mounting block. The cover can be removed after removing the prop. The roof foam seal was also added to the roof bottom, and seems to be sealing well, verified by sealing my mouth around the roof mating area:D, while blowing to check for leaks.

It's becoming obvious that I'm doing whatever I can now, to put off the iron-on covering tasks.:eek:

Bill

Bill G
05-14-2007, 01:10 PM
Started on the wing ribs, simulating the ribbed aluminum sheeting used on the full scale plane. Now say it like Austin Powers, "One Million Wing Ribs!".:D

The ribs were made from cutting strips from 1/32" light balsa sheeting.
Anyone ever cover something like this with iron-on?:eek:
I'm thinking of 2 different methods:
1st method would be to cover the wing by tacking down the entire covering sheet at low temp across the ribs, and then tack it down between the ribs, leaving the higher temp shrinking ability for the last step.
2nd method would be to only tack the covering across the ribs, and leave the space between the ribs as open framework, by not tacking it down to the wing surface between the ribs. Hopefully the ribs would be pronounced enough to still get the effect. This is the way the rudder and elevator were done, since they were not sheeted, but only spar covered.

What I don't believe can be done is to gradually tack the covering down completely, while moving across the wing panel. I think this would turn into a big ball of mess. Kinda like trying to move across a sheeted gull wing like on a Corsair, with one sheet of covering. It can be done, but not that easily.

Bill

Bill G
05-15-2007, 08:15 AM
Started on the removable floor sections. I decided on 2 floor sections, 1 front and 1 rear, with the seats attached to each floor section. The plane has 4 seats total. Everything will be removable for component access, and the front floor and seats will be removable for the battery installation/removal, since it will be hidden under the floor.

Also finished the 1 million wing ribs on the top wing panel, with the bottom panel still to go.

Bill

Bill G
05-16-2007, 07:09 AM
Finished the bottom wing ribbing. The ribs had to be cut around the strut and float mounts, to provide ample tacking area for the covering. For this side of the wing, I marked the centerlines of the ribs, instead of just a start mark for each rib. This way I could lay the glue lines for 4 or 5 ribs at a time, instead of just 1 or 2. Went much faster this way.

The aileron cable covers are a Parkzone part that I found at the LHS. They were intended to be wing skids, but work perfectly for aileron cable covers, with the ends cut open. Since the full size plane has lever arms that work the ailerons and flaps, they looks better than exposed cables.

The E-Z links on the aileron horns are a FlyZone part. They have a fine thread and tighten better by hand, than the Dubro flat head screw type which has a coarse thread. They also only cost a buck for 2 of them, and you get some FlyZone control horns to boot:D, whether you need them or not.

Bill

Bill G
05-17-2007, 07:41 AM
Made the rear seat and the steering yoke frame today.

The seat was made from 1/32" sheet, with balsa tri-stock added behind the corner seams, adding material to allow for rounding of the edges, which has been performed to the upper backrest of the seat. When finished, the rounds will be much larger, like a real upholstered seat. The servo arm cutout on the floor will be covered with a small raised area. This was done to keep the majority of the floor as low as possible, since I'm trying to keep the interior as scale as possible.

The steering yoke was made to telescope into the instrument panel with a rubber o-ring used for friction. I wasn't sure what the correct depth should be, so this way I can adjust it.
I also devised a method to connect the 2 "steering wheels", yet to be added, so that they turn together in sync (I know its not a car, but close enough:D). Control line string was used to create a cable spool setup around the 2 rotating outer shafts, so that they turn together. As one could guess, it was a bit of a sonofabits to put together:eek:. The setup allows them to turn about 45 degrees in each direction. The extra string hanging out of the right side of the yoke still needs to be cut off. I actually thought of connecting this cable loop to a rotating shaft in the center, to be driven from a micro servo under the dash, which would be connected to the aileron servo port. Would be pretty cool to watch them turn with the ailerons. Oh well, maybe next plane:D.

Bill

pd1
05-17-2007, 12:14 PM
Bill now you're going to have to put a full bodied pilot inside.
When the yoke moves his arms can move.

Now I see why you don't want to fly these planes when you're done,
it's way too nice.

Bill G
05-19-2007, 06:05 AM
Bill now you're going to have to put a full bodied pilot inside.
When the yoke moves his arms can move.

Now I see why you don't want to fly these planes when you're done,
it's way too nice.
Thanks for the comments. It will be shown for a few, before I risk it.
Im working on the yokes now (steering wheels).
You can barely, and I mean barely, see the center part (sculpted balsa) of one of them behind a white wing, cut out from a photo that I took of another plane on the bench:D.
They have the square indents in the center part, like the full size. I'll probably make the hand grip loops from black vinly covered #12 copper house wiring tonight. Stiff enough to hold shape, but easy to shape. I also have drawn a templat to shape them over.

I thought about that:D, meaning servo operated yokes and an action full bodied pilot. I bought a 1/9th scale H9 pilot, but he is a hair too big. Should had bought a 1/8th scale. I have a 1/8th scale Williams Brothers pilot that I may use. I'll at least add a torso to him, although I'll look around for a full bodied figure, at this point.

I should have made the yokes move from a servo. They move together, but I came up with the idea after installing the telescoping friction tube mount for the yoke shaft, under the dash. I could still rework it, to run the yokes from a servo under the dash. The dash is removable for service, since the light switch is mounted behind it also.

I've taken a little Seabee break the past day, to rework my AR234 scratch build. The FlyZone Cessna 180 wing is perfect for the Arado, so I had to get one for a 20 dollar investment.

Bill

pd1
05-19-2007, 11:46 AM
Bill, you've exhibited craftsmanship and attention to detail on this build that's second to none.
I'm disappointed that you spent $20 on a foam wing.

Why don't you cut your own?
Why don't you build from balsa?

I know you have the skill and patience.
If you want to cut your own, I can give you a lot of foam, for free.

$20 just seems like a lot of money for a small foam wing.

I know what you mean about taking breaks, I shelved the HE-51 for now.

I've since built a Sidewinder delta and I'm about half way through a 70% Taurus.
Sometimes it feels nice to have a change of scenery.

Bill G
05-19-2007, 03:28 PM
Bill, you've exhibited craftsmanship and attention to detail on this build that's second to none.
I'm disappointed that you spent $20 on a foam wing.

Why don't you cut your own?
Why don't you build from balsa?

I know you have the skill and patience.
If you want to cut your own, I can give you a lot of foam, for free.

$20 just seems like a lot of money for a small foam wing.

I know what you mean about taking breaks, I shelved the HE-51 for now.

I've since built a Sidewinder delta and I'm about half way through a 70% Taurus.
Sometimes it feels nice to have a change of scenery.

I'll have to take a look at your current builds. Feel free to post links so I can see your builds, since I don't go to that other place anymore. When I finish this build, I may post a smaller than thumbnail size picture:D of this build in the Seabee thread that my buddy:eek: killed off over there, with a link to come here if they really want to see it.

20 bucks isn't much money for anything, these days.:D Probably should have been $15:), but the LHS has to pay premium rent at their location.

I can appreciate the point of not using a ready made wing, and building a frame-up wing. For whatever reason however, I enjoy building fuses much more than wings. I've built a number of parkflyer sized planes, where I pasted a modified $20 replacement wing on a fully scratchbuilt fuse. I just posted in the Jet forum here yesterday, about the new FlyZone Cessna 180 wing:Q that fits perfectly on my older Arado 234 EDF parkflyer build. The retrofitting is in progress right now.

The EXACT answer to why I don't cut my own foam:
Because it would involve investing time and money on building the cutter that is not spent DIRECTLY in building a plane. You asked for it, you got it.:D Same reason a lot of other things don't get done around here either.:eek: Still would really like to build one someday, as I've been threatening for a good while now.

When I first started building, I would never have touched foam, and was a balsa purist.
There are a number of reasons that master modelers all over the world use foamcore wings, and foamcores for entire planes, for that matter. Most of those folks were probably pretty reluctant in the first place, just like I was, until finding the advantages. For the balsa purists, Hey, at least my wing tips and Horner tips are fully frame up construction.:D

For this specific build which is a sea plane, the idea of having a giant surfboard, versus a structure that can break up and fill with water, is a good reason in itself. Foam also made the complex mounting and sealing of the wing to cabin mating easy to reinforce and tweak. The bottom line is that once sheeted, or at least covered with iron on, a balsa constructed wing has nothing on a foam one. That's the main thing that got me into foam. I think bare foam is ugly, and bare EPP is the ugliest.:eek:

After 30,000 pages, I guess the build history has been lost:eek:
As for this wing core, it is EPP and has worked well so far, easily accepting standard CA and activator, with no issues. The wing core came before the project, and actually motivated the project at first. It was kindof like, "Well I have this core that looks like it could be used, and I see this decent, uncompleted 2-view that this guy's posted that I could enlarge and scratch build from, so what the heck, let's get started".
I never envisioned what this build would turn into, since I had no clue of how it would come together. The very nature of the build would have gone fully against a frame wing. Without a plan, things are constantly being changed and revised. Building a framed wing would have involved making a detailed plan, and having to work out all the future details for the wing at that time, which would have gone entirely against the method in which everything has been done.

Hope all that makes sense, since this isn't exactly the usual building method.

pd1
05-19-2007, 09:15 PM
Bill, I'm with you as to what materials to use.
I'll use anything.
I got a free stash of white foam, looking for some project to use that stuff in.

I built a couple of GWS kits last year and I'm having a ball.

The Sidewinder thread is in the general plane discussion site over here.
I'll do the Taurus after I get some more work done on it.

I think I want to get the plane finished or close to finished before starting the build thread.
Resizing the pictures and typing at my speed take too much time out from building.

Bill G
05-20-2007, 06:09 AM
Finished the steering yokes today. The #12 copper house wire worked well for the handgrips. The only problem with the setup now, is that it is tricky to get to the light switch below the yoke shaft on the instrument panel::o.
The pics flashed too bright, but the embossed detail in the center sections of the yokes is actually there.

The first 2 pics show how the wheels turn together by the internal cable spool setup, made using control line string. The 3rd pic shows the setup in place, installed in the instrument panel.

The last pic shows, well you guessed it:D, I know somebody's gonna mention it, so might as well just get it out of the way.:eek:

Bill

Bill G
05-23-2007, 09:14 AM
I've returned to the Seabee, after having some fun with some other projects.::o pic3

Back to Doll House Furniture Making 101.:D
Finshed the front seat. The interior is pretty much complete now, less paint and adding magnets to hold the seat/floor assemblies in place. Both seats unpainted are 1/2 oz. I wish I had mounted the steering column a hair higher, but the seat still fits. I can adjust the mount, but unless I use a pilot with legs, there will be no problem. As of now, the pilot will be a torso body pilot.

Bill

pd1
05-23-2007, 01:51 PM
Ah, the dreaded tri motored FW.

The interior of your plane is more detailed and better than the exterior of mine.

E-Challenged
05-23-2007, 08:58 PM
I am beginning to feel like a monk translating ancient greek to latin and illustrating each page with ornate graphics and illustrations. You must be talking to yourself and getting wierd answers too. My P-26 is finally taking shape as you saw on E-Zone. I am not looking forward to doing all the swoopy multi-colored graphics but if I can keep slogging along I'll get 'er done. I'm hoping to get our club pres, who does graphics, to make me up a set of roundels, numerals and letters U.S.Army etc. in the next few days so I can get it done and ready for maiden flight and in-flight pictures before the end of the month contest deadline. Your Seabee is going to be too purty to put in the water and attempt to commit aviation with it. I see it hanging in Kenmore Aviation's office at the seaplane base.

Bill G
05-26-2007, 04:53 PM
I am beginning to feel like a monk translating ancient greek to latin and illustrating each page with ornate graphics and illustrations. You must be talking to yourself and getting wierd answers too. My P-26 is finally taking shape as you saw on E-Zone. I am not looking forward to doing all the swoopy multi-colored graphics but if I can keep slogging along I'll get 'er done. I'm hoping to get our club pres, who does graphics, to make me up a set of roundels, numerals and letters U.S.Army etc. in the next few days so I can get it done and ready for maiden flight and in-flight pictures before the end of the month contest deadline. Your Seabee is going to be too purty to put in the water and attempt to commit aviation with it. I see it hanging in Kenmore Aviation's office at the seaplane base.
They do have some schemes that would require some work on the P26.
I spent forever finding and rescaling the correct Indian graphic for the fuse. Still didn't look quite like the original Sterling version.:D

PD1, its my old Arado234 wing, with the fans stripped out, mounted on a Guillows 190 fuse. Flys like all hell's get out.:eek:

Bill

Bill G
06-02-2007, 09:05 AM
Finally back on this, after a hiatus of maidening a number of planes that have been hanging from the strings for a number of years. Fortunately, they are all still in one piece, but maidens mean repairs and rework.::o
I'm going to have to quit flying, to finish this project. I can't seem to leave a repairable plane unrepaired for any length of time, and they're hogging all my time.

Finished covering the Seabee floor sections with Econokote. I opted for 1/32" balsa with covering, since the end result is more durable than 1/16" without covering, and weighs about the same. The seats will be painted with Sig dope. I thought about covering them, but I'll have plenty of covering to do soon, as it is.:eek:

The interior is held in with 2 sets of magnets. The rear seat will be glued to the back panel, which attaches with magnets to the rear cabin (pic 2). These small 1/8" dia Hobby Lobby RE magnets are good for the task, since they will hold the parts in, but did need to be fitted well, since they are not that strong. That will be good, since I don't want it to be like pulling teeth, to remove the parts.

The front seat will be glued to the front floor, which has a post mounted magnet to hold the floor in place. This assembly will be removed for batt access. (Pic3) There is a small area of frontmost floor that is permanently installed, since the scale pilots won't want things falling under the floor, if a large void is left. At the very front, there is an opening above the batt for venting. The rear seat assembly will normally be left installed in the airplane, since it does not need to be removed for batt access.

Bill G
06-05-2007, 07:36 AM
Took a pic of everything loosely fit together. Gotta do that every now and then, for motivation.:D

Getting ready to start covering the fuse. The strip pattern is roughly penciled on the plane, so I could write down the dimensions, and determine where to overlap the blue and white covering that will be used. The dark blue stripes will overlap the covering seam.

Finished painting the seats, and glued the seats to the pans. The front seat and floorpan assembly are a bit tricky to r&r for battery access, now that they are glued together as one part::o , but it simlifies having to r&r both parts separately. Now that I have the trick down pat, on how to finagle it in and out, its not too bad. The interior parts are held in place with RE magnets.

I bought a H9 pilot, but at 1/8 scale, its too big, and should have got 1/9th. I'm using a Williams Brothers pilot, which I always liked, but you have to make the torso, if you want one. The torso was made with 1/32" balsa, worked around a frame consisting of 2 side pieces and top and bottom frames, made to match the torso perimeter of the pilot. A little sanding and filler, and the seam's not too bad. I painted his shirt with paint that was made for my Alfa FW190. It doesn't match the Alfa all that well, but looks good on his shirt, to go with the plane's scheme.:D

Grasshopper
06-05-2007, 02:10 PM
Looks very nice Bill. Maiden in two weeks?:D

Bill G
06-05-2007, 07:48 PM
Looks very nice Bill. Maiden in two weeks?:D
Thanks
If I stayed at it.:eek:
It been easy to get distracted with other projects, since I'd rather build, than have to work on covering 2-tone schemes with striping. Covering's one of those things you've gotta really be in the mood for.::o

Bill

newcomer
06-05-2007, 08:34 PM
Bill, have been following this build since you started it on the "other" site. always enjoy your builds and admire your craftsmanship. keep up the good work.
david

Bill G
06-06-2007, 07:44 AM
Thanks for the comments David. I guess I should take a look to see what you're doing over there. Any new Luft builds?

Seabee:
Well its not going to cover itself,:D so I finally got started. As they say, the hardest part is getting started. Could have made this easier by painting the blue and white 2-tone, but paint has limited success bonding to iron-ons. It probably is actually easier to work with smaller pieces on the fuse anyways. Still may end up painting the blue a bit darker, but it will have a good base color, so that any inevitable paint chips won't stand out too bad.

Started by laying in corner seams, in the rear cabin area where the covering sections will join. The stripe pattern dimensions have been determined, since I needed to pencil the seam line between the white and blue on the fuse sides. The dark blue top stripe on the fuse side will overlap the seam. Actually wasn't as bad as I thought. I'm convinced that its ok to poke pin holes to remove trapped air, since they tend to seal up before you can even get the air out. The iron-on backing glue seems to have no problem sealing the tiny pin tip holes, although I didn't need to make too may of them. Not too worried about the wood, since its been soaked from both sides with many coats of dope.

The fun part:eek: next will be to apply the upper fuse white covering, and work it around the raised ribs, which were added to simulate the ribs on the real plane. I may cover the ribbed wing as if it were a form and stringer build, and not push the covering down to the sheeting below the ribs. Depends on how pronounced they look if done this way. I'll experiment with the ailerons.

newcomer
06-06-2007, 03:02 PM
hi, Bill.
have got the layout done for a Ju 128 in depron - probably for the new hobby lobby fan and jetscreamer motor. need to clean up the work area to have room to do it.
david

Bill G
06-11-2007, 07:23 AM
Trying to get back on this thing again, since I took a break to do a little Cox Wings 190. Keep realizing the Seabee will not cover itself. Since the toughest part is always getting started, I may have the motivation now to keep going.

Got the main fuse cabin covered now, which will still need blue striping, after the rest is covered. The junk seen on the blue is there since I haven't cleaned the covering grime off yet. Was actually easier to work the covering than I expected. Using Econokote for the white was a good choice, since it was much easier to work around the curved nose and the raised ribs. The raised ribs turned out pretty well, adding a nice touch of detail to the fuse. I'm now glad that I didn't decide to glue them on later, as it looks better with them seamlessly under the covering job.

Bill

Grasshopper
06-11-2007, 02:42 PM
Bill,

You're going to have to put that in a museum when you're done. I can't imagine actually sending that beautiful piece of work up in the air. And you just "threw in" a 190 for fun too. You're doing a beautiful job. You should give lessons to those of us that are more build challenged.

Bill G
06-11-2007, 06:14 PM
Bill,

You're going to have to put that in a museum when you're done. I can't imagine actually sending that beautiful piece of work up in the air. And you just "threw in" a 190 for fun too. You're doing a beautiful job. You should give lessons to those of us that are more build challenged.
I probably will have to stare at it for a good while, before I brave flying it.::o
My reccomended building method is to start the way I did. Start out doing Guillows conversions, balsa sheeting, iron-on covering and all. They may never fly worth a nickel, or even at all:Q, but at least you get the building spirit going.

Bill

ElectricFlyGuy
06-14-2007, 12:18 AM
Hey buddy: Always did like the look of those COX planes. Nice job and may you get much help to boost your rep points for this great thread!! I have never seen someone with soooooo much patience as you to bing us this great education you have shared with us!! Keep up the great work!, Scott.

Trying to get back on this thing again, since I took a break to do a little Cox Wings 190. Keep realizing the Seabee will not cover itself. Since the toughest part is always getting started, I may have the motivation now to keep going.

Got the main fuse cabin covered now, which will still need blue striping, after the rest is covered. The junk seen on the blue is there since I haven't cleaned the covering grime off yet. Was actually easier to work the covering than I expected. Using Econokote for the white was a good choice, since it was much easier to work around the curved nose and the raised ribs. The raised ribs turned out pretty well, adding a nice touch of detail to the fuse. I'm now glad that I didn't decide to glue them on later, as it looks better with them seamlessly under the covering job.

Bill

Bill G
06-15-2007, 06:13 AM
Hey buddy: Always did like the look of those COX planes. Nice job and may you get much help to boost your rep points for this great thread!! I have never seen someone with soooooo much patience as you to bing us this great education you have shared with us!! Keep up the great work!, Scott.
Thanks Scott. I'm going to try to get back on covering this thing tonight. I had a BEC shutdown due to a motor lockup on my little 262. You know how that is.:D Can't rest or work on anyting else, until its all repaired.:eek:

Bill

Bill G
06-15-2007, 09:23 PM
Slow progress, but should pick up, now that I have the fuse covered. Getting the trapped air out while covering has been a job, since you can't just push trapped air through the sheeting, when it has 30,000 coats of dope on it.

Pic2: Bet you can't do this?:D
I cut off a scrap of covering, and the point stuck straight into the carpet by my feet. It was standing straight up, but started bending over before I could get the camera.

Bill

pd1
06-15-2007, 10:03 PM
Bill, there is only one thing wrong with your pictures, there too dang small.

Is there anyway you can up the size so I can enlarge the pictures so I can see some detail?

The eyes are getting older.
Paul

Bill G
06-17-2007, 07:04 AM
Bill, there is only one thing wrong with your pictures, there too dang small.

Is there anyway you can up the size so I can enlarge the pictures so I can see some detail?

The eyes are getting older.
Paul
Talk to Wattflyer, they're the ones who make the file size limit, and loaded this viewer that doesn't enlarge much. My file sizes are all saved right near the limit. One of the reasons folks go to that other place, and they can add descriptions there too. Yo do know that you have to click on the pics to enlarge them here at Wattflyer?

I've been fortunate that my eyes have weakened at distance. Under 5 feet I'm as good as a microscope.;-) Glasses would drive me nuts for hands on work.:blah:

Window Glass
Well this plane cut me a break.:D I made all the side windows a while back, but though I would have to mold some curve into the front windows, to get them to fit properly. Not so, as the flat cutouts fit in just fine. I think the designers of the original Seabee worked out the body shape so that the glass could simply be curved, and not require complex molding along with the process.

I actually worked the covering into the window flange, since I wasn't sure if I was going to paint the window seal in, or not. The covering was trimmed right at the inside edge of the flange, since I wanted the windows to glue in well, since covering is a lousy gluing surface. Don't need them popping out of place.::o The windows were glued in well, as neatly as possible, but since some glue could be seen around the perimeter, I masked off the flange area and painted on the window seal with flat black. Looks more scale, since the full size plane has a black window seal.

The nose glass was good to get out of the way, since it is the last thing that I wasn't sure of how it would go. The list of things needed to complete is still pretty long though.:eek:

pd1
06-17-2007, 12:06 PM
Hi Bill, I knew the front windows were from flat stock, I also know they can pop out on hard landing in the water.

It just means you matched the original curves exactly.
Well done.

I use photoshop on my pictures and make the original photo about 15 to 20 inches wide, still at around 125 kb.

I think it fools the program and allows the picture to really expand when you click on the picture.

My eyes are working exactly opposite of yours.
I still can see things in the distance sharp.

But up close I have to use the glasses.
I really don't like glasses.

As always, you're doing a fantastic job.

Bill G
06-18-2007, 07:00 AM
Hi Bill, I knew the front windows were from flat stock, I also know they can pop out on hard landing in the water.

It just means you matched the original curves exactly.
Well done.

I use photoshop on my pictures and make the original photo about 15 to 20 inches wide, still at around 125 kb.

I think it fools the program and allows the picture to really expand when you click on the picture.

My eyes are working exactly opposite of yours.
I still can see things in the distance sharp.

But up close I have to use the glasses.
I really don't like glasses.

As always, you're doing a fantastic job.

Thanks Paul. The window pillars and openings are as scale as possible, from the 2-view. The curved pillars were definitely worth the extra effort.
Doesn't sound too good to have windows popping out on hard landings.:eek:
Mine are overlapped with glue on the inside, to ensure they stay in there.
I imagine the seal is like some cars have used, a Chevette for example. The seal fits over the spot welded window frame seam, and then has another groove further out, for the window to be worked into. They probably made the window groove with too small of a rubber lip around it, to make the window installation into the groove easy.

Slow progress as usual, since these detail tasks are timetaking. I painted the dark blue rudder striping on, and only have the white top area to paint on now. Didn't think it would be too easy to have to mask it all off and paint, with the rudder already mounted on the plane. Making the ribbing placement scale made the striping a lot easier, since I could actually match the pattern with my reference drawing, rib for rib.

Next I can mount the elevator and rudder. The rudder will require that the lighting wires be soldered to the wiring harness in the fuse, before mounting. I have a string routed through the fuse tail, so I can snake the rear rudder light wire through. There's a light on the top and the rear of the rudder.

Not sure how I will run the fuse striping on the plane. May very well be done with decal trim. Its hard to get clean lines with mask and paint, and iron on is quite difficult too. I have decal trim, iron-on covering, and a dark blue paint that all match pretty well, so they can be used together.

I like this blue and white scheme, but was thinking, if I had gone with the "Man With the Golden Gun" movie's Seabee scheme, my pilot would have looked good. He actually does look like James Bond, with the part on the correct side of his head too.:Q
Last pic is James' plane from the movie.

Chris F
06-18-2007, 07:22 AM
Looking fantastic Bill, I'm extremely impressed. I wish I had the patience you have.

Bill G
06-20-2007, 05:08 AM
Looking fantastic Bill, I'm extremely impressed. I wish I had the patience you have.
The truth is I actually am one of the world's most impatient people.
The way I get these things done, is that I'm also horribly obsessive- compulsive.:eek:

Finished all the glass installation. If you can't see The glass, then that's a good thing:D.
Just need to paint on the rest of the black window seals.

If I were to ever document plans for one of these, I'd have to change the design a bit to make the tail feather assembly procedure a bit easier.
I had all the balsa spars and sheeting in place, and then had to work the rudder frame and corresponding spar notches into the rear of the sheeted fuse. I had originally planned to mount the rudder first, and then finish the sparring and sheeting, but that was before I decided to run 2 lights into the rudder. Making all this trickier, the wire for the rudder's tailmost light has to be constantly pulled taut, while gradually working the rudder in. Knowing what this would be like, I wisely decked the elevator and rudder mounting surfaces a while back, so they would mount straght and true, without tweaking.

At times in the past, I've slammed::o these tail areas together, while having to torqe the rudder and elevator, blasting glue into seams to build up gaps:eek:, while activating the hell out of it, all ending up with out of alighment, half-ass tail surfaces. I'm tired of rushing the job at this point, and have learned to slow down at this point. It easy to get into the bad habit of just wanting to get those parts on there as quickly as possible. If not done well, you get real sick of looking down at an elevator that is not straight with the fuse.:blah:

Looking closely at second pic, a very short lenght of the wire running from the rudder into the rear fuse can be seen. Also the point where the 2 light wires and the main feed can be seen, at the front of the rudder. This is where the slack is pulled. When finished, this wiring is tucked away, and the front rudder joint will be filled and blended in with the fuse. This blend work can also be seen in the rear, where a fill block was carved (pic 3) to fill the void behind the elevator. The last pic shows the area, after adding soft 1/32" sheet over the block, sanding it level, and filling the seams. All these little operations are what add hours to this build.
I can easily see a few more hours blending in the covering to the tail feathers, and painting the dark blue pattern down onto the fuse below the rudder.

Edit: Made the filler pieces for the front of the rudder. Had the front rudder spar been made to exact scale, it would have been thicker and not required the flared farings. Still, there would always be some work needed at a joint like this. Unbelievable, the time spent in carving 2 filler farings like these. I've used balsa filler, shaping as if it were clay, for stuff like this before, but its heavy in large chunks, and melts and dings, when iron-on is applied over it.

Threw everything together once again, for a motivational look at it all.:D
I emailed the pic to the owner of the real plane. Maybe he's a millionare, and will want to buy it for 20-30k or so.:Q

E-Challenged
06-21-2007, 04:12 PM
I'd like to see GWS or Alpha eventually come out with a very light foam version of the Seabee with detachable wheels and a water rudder option. A built up model of the Seabee like yours is only for OC guys like you and maybe me and a few others who happen to be fascinated with real thing.

RacerPaul
06-21-2007, 04:17 PM
Wow...great project!

Paul

Bill G
06-22-2007, 08:58 PM
EC, boy would that be nice! GP just did the PBY, which I never believed anyone would do. Maybe this will be next. Heck, if I knew the GP was coming out, I may have not killed myself doing a Guillows PBY conversion. Still haven't flown it yet. At this point, I need to heat shrink the wings a bit, to correct slight panel warping. I just did this to a Piper Cherokee, that would not turn right AT ALL. That's not fun, so I know how important straigt wings are.
The built up version is certainly for OC folks.:eek: Good thing I didn't really know what I was in for at first, or I probably wouldn't have built it.:Q

Foam version?:
I orginally had always planned to do a foam version of this plane. Part of what talked me into built-up, is that it would be a difficult shape to just TLAR and scratch out from foam. Usually I can come up with a workable foam concept, and then commence the snowstorm:Q.
The engineering in this one just seemed overwhelming, to do a decent, "no plans-have at it", foam scratchbuild. After this build though, I have a million ideas for how to do one from foam.I could see GWS doing one, now that they have shown the kind of engineering and design innovation they have made in their 262 and 15. It actually could be made quite robust, since the cabin has a large overall size. I would make the interior much smaller, just for needed component room, and then the thick foam walls would make it quite strong. Carbon or glass rods could line the fuse halves, to strengthen the tail boom.

New Models:
I think we are seeing a good trend, that model companies are realizing that we don't need yet another Cub or P51. The sad thing is that folks say they want the "oddies", but don't buy them in numbers when they come out. The good thing is that I think they are starting to hit a brick wall with selling the current popular planes, and have seen the need to make the oddballs, even if they don't get the numbers they want. I think this is part of what happened with GWS. Part of the delay was the new factory, but the other was the fact that they could keep selling Beavers, P51s, ME109s, Zeros, and Spits. I think a large part of their business was repeat customers, who would simply keep replacing their GWS planes after mishaps. The new buyer market was decreasing from the ARF competition. I'm convinced they had to exhaust that market, before they needed the sales from new models.

Well after all that nonsense:Q, I just hope we get some new oddball models out there, like the Seabee.


Racer Paul, thanks for the nice comment. Nice to hear from folks. I see the views, but don't know who too many of the people are.
I looked at your Project Globtrotter. Cool idea. I've had an idea for a long time, to fly a plane a mile or so at a time, with pilots on the same frequency stationed just close enough apart to see and take over the approacing plane. They could use walkie talkies or maybe even cell phones to coordinate the transmitter takeover, after verifying that the communications are working properly::o, of course.

Seabee Progress:
Would you believe I spent over 3 hours last night, just finishing the covering on the front rudder faring (yeah, I know, its like 1 square inch::o of area) and repainting the tiny area of the dark blue striping, that the covering patch covered over? (Hey I actually remembered for once, to end a long question with a question mark:D) I also masked and painted the top center boom stripe that continues from the front rudder spar, and the fuse area under the elevator that is dark blue, continuing from the rudder. It takes unbelievable time to mask off these detail areas for striping scheme.

Now that the dark blue striping on the rear of the plane is finished, I can decide if I'm going to use matching trim decal material to complete the rest, or paint it on. I probably use decal material, since the edges are so much cleaner. I used a blue paint that matches the decal dark blue.

RacerPaul
06-23-2007, 01:17 AM
New Models:

Racer Paul, thanks for the nice comment. Nice to hear from folks. I see the views, but don't know who too many of the people are.
I looked at your Project Globtrotter. Cool idea. I've had an idea for a long time, to fly a plane a mile or so at a time, with pilots on the same frequency stationed just close enough apart to see and take over the approacing plane. They could use walkie talkies or maybe even cell phones to coordinate the transmitter takeover, after verifying that the communications are working properly::o, of course.



Bill,

I'll be following the build... just an awsome job!

Project Globetrotter IS a great idea!!!... but not mine! Good ole 'Stinkweed' started the whole shebang! Lotsa good folks helpin out too!

Whatch out for that Zap in the dark..LOL!

Paul

rawy
06-25-2007, 03:25 AM
Nice Job Bill ! I'm very impressed, should fly as good as it looks

rawy

Bill G
06-27-2007, 07:01 AM
Nice Job Bill ! I'm very impressed, should fly as good as it looks

rawy
Thanks for the comments. I'm trying to get back on it. My club has pushed me to finish the second trainer I'm doing for them. They got these 2 half built donated trainers, built by a butcher. I don't like to belittle folks skills, but you gotta see these things.:Q
If any of you have kids between the ages of 6 and 8, their building skills would definitely blow this guy's away.
I never met the builder, so I don't have to be nice.:Q I think someone was trying to get like 2 bucks for them at a swap meet, so they ended up just donating them to our club.

Well I'm finishing the second one up, to get it out of here. Like they say, "Garbage In, Garbage Out".
I'm actually thinking of using various letters from old lettering kits and writing that slogan on the wing of the plane.:D

Bill

Bill G
07-01-2007, 07:28 AM
The club's been pressing me to finish the half-done trainer they gave me, so I've been trying to get the pig:Q out the door. Cutting into Seabee time.

Covered the ailerons, and decided that there's no way I'm going to work the covering down to the sheet surface, between the raised ribs. It would be a ton of work. The ribs can still be seen when covering across the ribs, although not extemely pronounced. It still gives the look of the ribbed sheetmetal on the full size plane, so it was worth the effort of adding all the ribs, versus just covering a plain sheeted wing. They actually are a bit more visible, than the lousy pic below would indicate.

On to covering the wings now.

E-Challenged
07-10-2007, 05:08 PM
Horizon replaced my DX-6 transmitter so I'm about ready to maiden the P-26. Yesterday, my ancient Aeronca Chief bit the dust on 72mhz Ch 13. I think it was a recurring tip stall problem and not an R/C thing but all these crashes make me think twice about comitting aviation with my pride and joy. It takes real guts to fly something that you have obsessed over for so long and fallen in love with. Electric scale models have special challenges i.e. cooling, speed control/servo count/battery pack and linkage, etc. I installed a Park BEC in the Peashooter in hopes of preventing "unexplained loss of control" crashes as I have experienced with other small scale models with three or more servos. There seems to be a trend of using flight battery packs or add-on switching type BEC's and not relying on " iffy" linear BEC's . If you haven't done so, recommend you install a Park BEC or UBEC in your magnificent Seabee project.

E-Challenged
07-12-2007, 03:53 PM
I sent them an e-mail congratulating them on the PBY and asked them to consider producing a foam ARF Seabee around 48" w/s for moderate sized outrunner and maybe a 9-cell Nimh pack for balance. I suggested the the whole lower forward part of the fuselage could be solid foam and that the upper fuselage/window area be of clear plastic with framing factory painted. Window area could be removable for battery pack, etc. access, and with battery, etc. sealed in baggies for water flying. I further suggested that tip floats be breakaway and held on with Velcro and linkage to tail feathers could be by pull-pull. Ailerons would be optional and landing gear could be manually retractable. If I were experienced in foam model making I'd give it a try myself.

Bill G
07-14-2007, 08:00 AM
Horizon replaced my DX-6 transmitter so I'm about ready to maiden the P-26. Yesterday, my ancient Aeronca Chief bit the dust on 72mhz Ch 13. I think it was a recurring tip stall problem and not an R/C thing but all these crashes make me think twice about comitting aviation with my pride and joy. It takes real guts to fly something that you have obsessed over for so long and fallen in love with. Electric scale models have special challenges i.e. cooling, speed control/servo count/battery pack and linkage, etc. I installed a Park BEC in the Peashooter in hopes of preventing "unexplained loss of control" crashes as I have experienced with other small scale models with three or more servos. There seems to be a trend of using flight battery packs or add-on switching type BEC's and not relying on " iffy" linear BEC's . If you haven't done so, recommend you install a Park BEC or UBEC in your magnificent Seabee project.

Don't worry EC, I have planes that haven't flown after 2 years of building. The problem's me, not the equipment though.:Q

A foam Seabee would really be nice. I think they would sell on the incredible uniqueness alone.

I've been taking a Seabee break for the purpose of, believe it or not, getting some planes flying that I built 2-3 years ago.:eek: Its about time eh?

I know about the obsess/maiden stress thing. I've been terrified to fly my Yak23, since I knew it would be hot, and if it didn't go well, it would probably be killed. Well I got it flying well after a lot of hassle, and thanks to the cushioning of 3 foot weeds on the test launch. Great flight this past evening, after making some adjustments from the maiden 2 days ago. Was looking forward to a few final adjustments and what do you know, the motor shattered its shaft magnet. Glided in safely, so I still have a plane. Can't complain I guess.

I missed all the pics that would have been closer.:{
You still can see the chrome reflecting off the setting sun though.:D

E-Challenged
07-18-2007, 09:55 PM
It flew like it was towing a banner, a little too slow but stable, no trimming needed. The AXI 2212/26, 9x5 GWS DD prop and Tanic 2200 3S lipo didn't have quite enough grunt for the 38 ounce auw and 350 sq inch wing area. The 6" diameter dummy Wasp and ring cowl plus rigging wires probably add a lot of drag. Motocalc Wizard said it was too heavy to fly and recommended a lighter 3S pack and 9x7 prop. ( It doesn't know about the dummy Wasp). Anyway I have a larger Scorpion 2215/22 outrunner that may get 'er flying at in a more authoritative manner, may try a TP Prolite 3S pack, couldn't hurt.

pd1
07-18-2007, 11:11 PM
It flew like it was towing a banner, a little too slow but stable, no trimming needed. The AXI 2212/26, 9x5 GWS DD prop and Tanic 2200 3S lipo didn't have quite enough grunt for the 38 ounce auw and 350 sq inch wing area. The 6" diameter dummy Wasp and ring cowl plus rigging wires probably add a lot of drag. Motocalc Wizard said it was too heavy to fly and recommended a lighter 3S pack and 9x7 prop. ( It doesn't know about the dummy Wasp). Anyway I have a larger Scorpion 2215/22 outrunner that may get 'er flying at in a more authoritative manner, may try a TP Prolite 3S pack, couldn't hurt.

Congratulations, E-Challenged.
Before going too crazy could you up the cell count to a four cell pack?

That would give a large boost in power without a lot of weight gain.
If the set up can take it.

E-Challenged
07-29-2007, 04:49 AM
I dunno, that's almost as drastic as the switch to brushless and lipos. :Q I might just try that. The Scorpion 2215 can handle 4S lipo and Phoenix 25 can handle 4S if using a switching BEC. I'm a little concerned that the motor being buried in the dummy radial engine might not get enough cooling even though the Scorpions are supposed to be able to take heat without meltdown better than other outrunners according to Innov8tive Products. I have yet to try the 11x7 prop and new Tanic 2220 3S that is in the mail. They might do the trick.

Update, I have ordered a larger 3008/32 Scorpion outrunner, an XCaliber 2220 3S 20 C lipo pack and a Scorpion 55 amp speed control. This setup should yield about 100 watts per pound with 12x6 GWS DD and APC 12x6 E props according to Lucien Miller, Mr Scorpion, which will fly the Peashooter with authority despite 6" dummy radial and speed ring prop blanking and drag issues. We'll see!!

Bill G
08-06-2007, 06:35 AM
I dunno, that's almost as drastic as the switch to brushless and lipos. :Q I might just try that. The Scorpion 2215 can handle 4S lipo and Phoenix 25 can handle 4S if using a switching BEC. I'm a little concerned that the motor being buried in the dummy radial engine might not get enough cooling even though the Scorpions are supposed to be able to take heat without meltdown better than other outrunners according to Innov8tive Products. I have yet to try the 11x7 prop and new Tanic 2220 3S that is in the mail. They might do the trick.

Update, I have ordered a larger 3008/32 Scorpion outrunner, an XCaliber 2220 3S 20 C lipo pack and a Scorpion 55 amp speed control. This setup should yield about 100 watts per pound with 12x6 GWS DD and APC 12x6 E props according to Lucien Miller, Mr Scorpion, which will fly the Peashooter with authority despite 6" dummy radial and speed ring prop blanking and drag issues. We'll see!!

As of late, I wouldn't trust the BEC in any Castle ESC.:eek:

Bill

pd1
08-06-2007, 04:10 PM
Gee Bill, When I saw your name listed on this thread again I was hoping to see some more progress on the Sea Bee.
Always like seeing your work.

Looks like someone at the other place is out to make life more difficult for you.
Are there reviews by the owners? Or even appeals?

Good luck
Paul

Bill G
08-07-2007, 06:38 AM
Gee Bill, When I saw your name listed on this thread again I was hoping to see some more progress on the Sea Bee.
Always like seeing your work.

Looks like someone at the other place is out to make life more difficult for you.
Are there reviews by the owners? Or even appeals?

Good luck
Paul

One thing the mods at RCG and God have in common, is that they are both NEVER WRONG.:Q Must be quite a life.
I'd like to never be wrong. Wouldn't that be pretty cool.
Probably works out real well in their married lives.:eek:

Bill

FlyingMonkey
08-07-2007, 12:27 PM
I quit a forum that was like that. I am so glad this one isn't

Chris F
08-13-2007, 09:44 PM
Hi Bill,

Sorry to find they are still giving you a hard time at RCG, it appears they have no sense of humour. I can't believe they would ban you for that, well on second thought maybe I could :{.

You must be on the home straight with the Seabee. Have a good break from it, but please don't make us wait 2-3 years ;-) .

Bill G
08-24-2007, 08:31 PM
Actually Paul I'm going to try to get back on it this weekend. At least finish covering the wings. Covering's something I'm good at putting off:D,
so if I can get past it, I'll probably keep going.

RCG
It was something, to logoff one day with my new profile statement posted, then logon the next day, only to see that Mr. from Hell had replaced it with their "on a vacation" crap.
When you look at all their new and highly insulting warning point categories, it makes them guilty of worse personal attacks than anybody else on the site has ever done.

Bill

FlyingMonkey
08-24-2007, 08:33 PM
Do share, Bill, what are the categories?

I don't post there enough to learn these things. Always disheartening to see sites like that go in that direction.

Bill G
08-24-2007, 08:38 PM
Do share, Bill, what are the categories?

I don't post there enough to learn these things. Always disheartening to see sites like that go in that direction.
There's millions of them. Go look over there at the categories page. I'd be typing for an hour to post all of them here.:eek:

FlyingMonkey
08-24-2007, 08:59 PM
I can't find the categories page.

I did go to the support page, and was making myself ill reading all the complaints about the system.

And reliving the problems of mods sticking up for the problem causers, while the victims are made to look like the bad guys.

Seen that happen more than once. Experienced it when I made the mistake of speaking up against it as well.

Bill G
08-25-2007, 07:21 AM
I can't find the categories page.

I did go to the support page, and was making myself ill reading all the complaints about the system.

And reliving the problems of mods sticking up for the problem causers, while the victims are made to look like the bad guys.

Seen that happen more than once. Experienced it when I made the mistake of speaking up against it as well.
I can't remember exactly how I got to that page over there.
Probably was linked automatically to all the warnings I got.:Q

Bill

FlyingMonkey
08-25-2007, 08:16 AM
that's because you're a bad man, Bill...

Bill G
08-25-2007, 02:51 PM
that's because you're a bad man, Bill...
That's a line in an old Bad Company, or maybe Foghat song, isn't it?
Well it was just the first thing that came to mind:D

Bill

Bill G
08-27-2007, 06:01 AM
About time I put a Seabee build pic back in this thread.:D
Covered the bottom of the wing, which is the tougher side, with all the cutouts. The balsa spars that were added to simulate the ribbed sheetmetal do not show very well through the covering, but still better than no simulated ribbing at all. If I was completely out of my mind, I could have ironed the covering down to the sheeting between each spar:eek:, but that would have taken days.
The covering should show the sparring underneath much better on the wing topside, since the airfoil curve will cause the covering to dip between the balsa spars, and do a better job of simulating the ribbed sheetmetal on the real plane.

The pic of the assembled plane is an older picture, posted to show the wing sparring.

Bill

Biplane Murphy
08-27-2007, 06:25 AM
Hi Bill......Nice Build......I always wondered about the "Needing seabee motivation" user title.....then I came across this thread...:Q
Looks extremely cool as usual!!!:)

pd1
09-15-2007, 12:42 PM
Hey Bill, I flew into Newport RI, yesterday and one of the old Sea Bee's I used to fly was there.

I tooks some pictures, so if you want any for detail or what not, just say so and I'll post them

Paul

ripster327
09-16-2007, 02:58 AM
Bill,

Today I attended the Curtiss Seaplane Homecoming on Keuka Lake in Hammondsport and snapped a few of the Seabees pulling in. They are attached. That's Jim Poel and his blue one shown in two pics. Thought you'd enjoy seeing it. (It looks like your colors are exact!) The twin is a turboprop. Shown also is the "America" built by the Curtiss Museum volunteers (including Jim) over the past year plus. It should be flying soon. Glenn Curtiss built this in 1914. Wing span is 72 feet. It was built to fly the Atlantic but WWI broke out. Several were then sold to the U.K. for sub patrol. BTW, I along with several hundred others have been following your Seabee build. Fantastic!

Paul

Biplane Murphy
09-16-2007, 07:52 AM
Hi Bill...... "Ripster's" photos look like some pretty good motivation.....;-)

Bill G
09-20-2007, 05:49 AM
Yeah, I see the photos of mine that he included. I really need to finish this build. Really not much left to do, although nothing goes quickly on it.:eek:
Noticing that the landing gear is still in the water on "my":D plane, in the photos. He must have just taxied in from/ready to beach onto land, since you don't want to land in the water with the gear down.:eek:

I would have really liked to be there too, since we used to have a cottage on a neighboring lake in NYS. Nice country. You have to be there to experience it.

E-Challenged
09-30-2007, 04:19 AM
I stumbled upon a lot of You Tube videos featuring Seabees, nice interior views during takeoffs and landings, plane to plane views, waddling in and out of the water, etc. Great inspiration to get that Seabee finished and hopefully flying.

Bill G
10-06-2007, 05:30 AM
I stumbled upon a lot of You Tube videos featuring Seabees, nice interior views during takeoffs and landings, plane to plane views, waddling in and out of the water, etc. Great inspiration to get that Seabee finished and hopefully flying.
This family video is entertaining. From the 40s or 50s.

http://web.mac.com/chankwitz/iWeb/BlueHorizons/Movie.html

E-Challenged
10-14-2007, 03:32 AM
Full of nostalgia for me, I was ten years old living in south Milwaukee in 1949. My folks and I moved to CA in '53. My friend Jim and I used to ride our cruiser bikes out to Mitchell Field and watch P51's and later F-80's practice flight ops there. Wonder how they kept boaters from blundering into the path of the Seabee at Lake Okauchee. All those shots flying over Milwaukee brought back a lot of memories. Thanks!!

E-Challenged
11-27-2007, 03:44 PM
Are we ever going to see the Seabee fly? After 25 years I am finishing a Sig 1/6 scale Cub that I let languish in a closet with wing and fuselage framed up while I built a series of fun-scale P-51's. Instead of the .40 glow power, I am using an old geared Astro 25 and two 2200 3cell lipos in series for power. I expect 5-8 minute flights. My point is , that if you let your Seabee sit too long, a mental block against finishing it can set in. Even if you don't fly it, you can taxi it and run it around the pond. My Peashooter is flying well but still has a tendency to snap roll out of loops and rolls. It's happiest just making antique pursuit plan ciruits of the field

Stan-the-Man
12-02-2007, 06:47 AM
RE: The Seabee

Your photos of this plane brought back a family treasure for me as this style plane, or a close earlier relative, was docked at Lake Tahoe on the east shore back in the 60's, offering rides. It was taxi cab yellow. My dad treated us to a ride over the lake which I recall took close to 20 minutes.

There was a medium wind blowing, which later produced medium size waves when we landed... It sounded and felt like being in a metal trash can as we skipped like a stone across the water. I thought we were going to break apart.

That's the one big lesson I learned about seaplanes... You may take off in calm water, but when you return, Mother Nature may have raised the ante, and you may opt to turn into a submarine. The experience, however, is one of my favorite and most treasured memories. :)

Thanks for the pics.

Stan-the-Man
12-02-2007, 06:58 AM
Bill,

Today I attended the Curtiss Seaplane Homecoming on Keuka Lake in Hammondsport and snapped a few of the Seabees pulling in. They are attached. That's Jim Poel and his blue one shown in two pics. Thought you'd enjoy seeing it. (It looks like your colors are exact!) The twin is a turboprop. Shown also is the "America" built by the Curtiss Museum volunteers (including Jim) over the past year plus. It should be flying soon. Glenn Curtiss built this in 1914. Wing span is 72 feet. It was built to fly the Atlantic but WWI broke out. Several were then sold to the U.K. for sub patrol. BTW, I along with several hundred others have been following your Seabee build. Fantastic!

Paul

I've just posted my story about the Seabee, but I wanted to thank you for the photos. The plane we rode in was quite rounded in the nose, typical of early models of most designs, before they become more streamlined.

You sure brought back memories of a fun ride. :$ :$

ripster327
12-04-2007, 12:31 AM
Stan,

Thanks for the nice note. I'm happy those pics brought back such warm memories. Yeah, when you do things like that with your dad 40 years ago, those memories grow fonder and fonder as the years go by. They are real treasures. Glad you could do that with your pops.

Paul

Stan-the-Man
12-04-2007, 05:19 AM
Stan,

Thanks for the nice note. I'm happy those pics brought back such warm memories. Yeah, when you do things like that with your dad 40 years ago, those memories grow fonder and fonder as the years go by. They are real treasures. Glad you could do that with your pops.

Paul

You're more than welcome. You don't realize that I've gone all of these years never knowing the name of the plane we flew in until I saw your pictures. I've been looking through Flying Magazine and other sources, but haven't seen it. The Seabee or Sea Bee seems to be a rare plane as I've often seen other types of seaplanes, but I think have seen only one Seabee since our flight in all that time.

It was a little tin "bucket", but you just couldn't help but like it. If I remember correctly, the plane docked head on and the whole front end opened up like one large canopy so we could get in through the front, like those mini-cars.

Since then, I've always been fond of seaplanes and push props. My Aerobird 3 reminds me of the Seabee. When in flight, I took pictures with my little Brownie Starflash camera, and got a little woozy from trying to see side to side. I took pictures of the newly developed Tahoe Keys resort area, at that time.

I wish I could share them with you, but I don't have the computer means. I even took a pic of the plane as it brought the other half of our family back to the dock from our separate flights.

I remember this plane being a two passenger plus the pilot in front. As I remember, it had split red pin striping down it's yellow sides. What a crate, but it had a cuteness to it like a favorite Teddy Bear or model plane. I've always wanted one since then, however, there are sleeker types I've drooled over, too! It was one event in my life that really spawned my interest in aviation. I had made all sorts of plastic plane models and knew every Air Force plane in their '60's fleet, but I never found a model of the Seabee until your posting. It's especially nice to have these thoughts back at this time of the year. :ws:

Thanks, again, Paul.

As a surprise update this December 4th, I Googled the Republic Seabee to find a picture resembling the very plane I described above. I tried pasting the picture of a yellow Seabee marked "sold", but the photo wouldn't transfer. You can see it (the N2TB) at:

http://www.republicseabee.com/Buyseabee.html

Strange how my memory remembered the two red pin stripes exactly as pictured in this photo for at least 40 years -- never seen since that time except for my black and white photo on occasion, when I've gone through my pictures a couple of times. Anyway, thought you might like to see it.

E-Challenged
12-06-2007, 03:28 PM
I'm trying to order Cleveland plans for a 56" w/s Seabee and a 60" w/s Stinson Model A Trimotor. Have decided not to design my own. No water near here so will make gear substantial but removable on Seabee. I'm nearly finished with the Berkeley Aeronca Sedan build for the Plans and Kit Build contest on E-Zone, awaiting graphics from Callie.

E-Challenged
12-29-2007, 04:22 AM
Bill, what's happening with Seabee. I just got Cleveland plans for a 60" Seabee, and Stinson Model A Trimotor Seabee set has 2 huge sheets, 8' x5'

Bill G
12-29-2007, 05:46 AM
Bill, what's happening with Seabee. I just got Cleveland plans for a 60" Seabee, and Stinson Model A Trimotor Seabee set has 2 huge sheets, 8' x5'
Still sitting there 90% done.:D It will be moving again soon, since I ABSOLUTELY want it flying this coming year. I would expect to see the dang thing published at meets, since there literally are none. That alone can be the sole motivation for you to build the Cleveland, if for no other reason. Nice to have unique stuff.

I also bought a nice 330W outrunner and CC36 for it just 2 weeks ago, so there is some motivation now. Figure if you spend money on it, it will movtivate you, since we hate to see dollars just sitting there that we know we didn't have to spend.:D

Still building though. I finished a 34" Chipmunk scratchbuild from enlarged and highly modified Guillows plans, and had a beautiful Christmas day maiden.

CHELLIE
12-29-2007, 06:58 AM
Still sitting there 90% done.:D It will be moving again soon, since I ABSOLUTELY want it flying this coming year. I would expect to see the dang thing published at meets, since there literally are none. That alone can be the sole motivation for you to build the Cleveland, if for no other reason. Nice to have unique stuff.

I also bought a nice 330W outrunner and CC36 for it just 2 weeks ago, so there is some motivation now. Figure if you spend money on it, it will movtivate you, since we hate to see dollars just sitting there that we know we didn't have to spend.:D

Still building though. I finished a 34" Chipmunk scratchbuild from enlarged and highly modified Guillows plans, and had a beautiful Christmas day maiden.

Very nice chipmunk Bill, I maiden my Hyper Mini Bee Christmas day too, It flies yea,

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28242

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50037&d=1198404546

Bill G
12-30-2007, 11:38 PM
Very nice chipmunk Bill, I maiden my Hyper Mini Bee Christmas day too, It flies yea,

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28242

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50037&d=1198404546
Thanks.
Bee looks good too. I have one other red/white plane besides the Chipmunk, and I've decided they are really easy to keep track of in the air with those 2 colors.

gearz
12-31-2007, 12:12 AM
Good job on the Seabee Bill. Excellant work. (oops spelling). Hope to see more of your great work posted.

Bill G
02-01-2008, 05:25 AM
Thanks G.

Well I got the top wing covering mostly applied tonight, and finally got myself back on this plane. Covering is something I always get burnt out on, and since this is the last of the covering work, it should get me over the hump.

FlyingMonkey
02-01-2008, 12:09 PM
Took you long enough... ;)

Bill G
02-04-2008, 12:32 AM
Took you long enough... ;)I think you outta try one and see how long it takes you to get burnt out.:D
There are single parts in this plane that take longer than many entire airplane builds. Actually one of the main reasons I got burnt out is that I knew I would never fly it last summer, even if I had finished it. You need to let all that work sit at least 1 year, before you get the courage to maiden, since you've somewhat forgot about all the hard work by then. I just maidened a Guillows Spitfire for a great flight. The plane was built 3 or 4 years ago.:D

Seabee:
Now that the wing is covered, I can get the ball rolling again here. Covering those Horner tips was a fun time.:eek: The wing has now been test fitted in place with the wing seat seal installed. Should seal out every drop, even if the plane flips. The cabin roof is pretty tight too. The pencils in the photo are pointing to the 2 roof seals and the wing seal. The roof is upside down, and you can see that the base seal will meet the rear roof seal that is mounted on the cabin bulkhead. Even if turned over, the roof should be well enough sealed to not let more than a small amount of water in, and not very quickly. The front roof magnet is quite strong, and the wing pushes down the rear roof, once installed.

I wisely decided to scrap the idea of using the Maxx 4011 cobalt, and bought a 330W Electrifly outrunner for the Seabee. Fortunately, it fit right onto my original motor mount that I originally fabricated for the geared cobalt. I installed a prop adapter, and it will only need about a 1/16" thick washer to shim the prop out a bit, to not rub the engine cowling.

Bill G
02-11-2008, 12:42 PM
Finished the wing and float struts. Had about 3 or 4 ideas for the floats, and finally decided that the blind nut idea would be the best. The floats each have 2 blind nuts pressed in from either side and CA glued in place. #2-56 all-thread was used for the foat strut braces, which is simply bent at the float end, with enough thread left after the bend to thread into the blind nuts. With the blind nuts on either side of the float body, they can't easily rip out. After fitting in place with the adjustable clevis links set to length at the wing mounting points, I made aluminum tubing covers for the all-thread strut braces.

The few details left to do in this area are:
1. The clevis points in the main struts will either be pinned or bolted
with 2-56 screws at the joining points.
2. The inboard end of the main struts has an aerodynamic "triangle"
shaped faring that will fit over the inner area of the the strut.
3. The actual strut attachment to the wing as of now, is simply slots cut
in the strut tops, slipped over flanges mounted to the wing. I'll
probably mount a blind nut in each strut top, and simply screw in place.

rawy
02-11-2008, 02:05 PM
Very nice Job Bill, can't wait to hear from your maiden, should'nt be an issue if she only partly fly's as good as she looks.
Could assist to some ROW and waterlandings of a fullscale Twin Bee last summer, very impressing noise and endless acceleration run for liftoff.


rawy

Bill G
02-12-2008, 07:36 AM
Very nice Job Bill, can't wait to hear from your maiden, should'nt be an issue if she only partly fly's as good as she looks.
Could assist to some ROW and waterlandings of a fullscale Twin Bee last summer, very impressing noise and endless acceleration run for liftoff.


rawyThanks.
At the point its at now, I really could test fly it if it wasn't so lousy outside. Actually am kindof anxious to see it fly.
There's a GP glass scale rc kit that has a twin option. Looks nice.

Grasshopper
02-12-2008, 02:32 PM
Hey Bill,

How did you finish the floats? Are they painted? Did you cover them with something first. Details please.

Bill G
02-12-2008, 08:07 PM
Hey Bill,

How did you finish the floats? Are they painted? Did you cover them with something first. Details please.Those were a job.:eek: I don't blame you for not wanting to look back through 5000 pages.:D

They were made by laminating 4 layers of 1/4" hard balsa, with the center sections hollowed out to save weight. After shaping, they got several coats of sealant, and then numerous prime and sand operations. Getting the front of the hulls correct, where all the lines meet together in a "frown" type of shape was very tedious. I think I spent a good week or 2 on those things. they were painted at the end.

The last picture of a real one really helped. Its tough to find really good photos of some of these parts.

Grasshopper
02-12-2008, 08:38 PM
Thanks Bill,

What type of sealer and paint did you use?

Bill G
02-23-2008, 03:41 AM
Thanks Bill,

What type of sealer and paint did you use?
Guess I need to get back on this an look here also.:D

I used Sig (butyrate, I believe) dope on everything, and multiple coats too. The paint is simply Model Masters Can bombs, over sanded automotive primer. Went on fine.

E-Challenged
04-05-2008, 05:01 PM
I am no one to talk. I am trying to force myself to finish my ole Sig 72" Cub project that I revived after some 20 years. It is all framed up with scale instrument panel, dummy engine, and latching side door and window. I "just" need to solder up the landing gear, assemble wing struts and attachments and cover the dang thing. My wife has a serious health problem, prognosis is good, but this has lowered my energy and enthusiasm for hobby projects. We are also starting extensive home remodelling activity that has also been put off for years.

Hope you finish the Seabee and have a successful maiden. Be sure it aint tail heavy and keep climb gradual. Land with power until you get to know it's stall speed.

pd1
04-05-2008, 11:13 PM
E-Challenged, Sorry to hear about your wifes medical problems.
I know how that feels.

Stan-the-Man
04-06-2008, 10:39 AM
I am no one to talk. I am trying to force myself to finish my ole Sig 72" Cub project that I revived after some 20 years. It is all framed up with scale instrument panel, dummy engine, and latching side door and window. I "just" need to solder up the landing gear, assemble wing struts and attachments and cover the dang thing. My wife has a serious health problem, prognosis is good, but this has lowered my energy and enthusiasm for hobby projects. We are also starting extensive home remodelling activity that has also been put off for years.

Hope you finish the Seabee and have a successful maiden. Be sure it aint tail heavy and keep climb gradual. Land with power until you get to know it's stall speed.

*************************
Sorry to hear about your wife. You can always fly, but wives can't be replaced... at least the real good ones. Time spent with her will hopefully bring back better memories than a few model planes. Of course, some of our planes brought back memories of many a female (e.g. "The Memphis Belle"). Hope she improves so you can both get flying.

E-Challenged
04-13-2008, 04:58 PM
Thanks guys, we are also starting a long planned for major home termite repair and remodel ( not a DIY project), will be living in the motorhome in the driveway, etc. and shuffliing stuff between garage and rooms including my hobby mess. BTW, if you want some encouragement to finish the Seabee or start one, go to You Tube and enter Seabee in the search block. Amazing how many Seabee videos are there now.

Here's an old stall spin test video on a full scale Seabee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-T0zuV3pg0

Bill G
04-15-2008, 06:31 PM
Actually the Seabee is flyable at this point. I need to either cut trim tape or paint on the striping, and mount the floats. The floats already fit over their mounts and stay in place, but I'm thinking of something easier to remove than just plain screws and nuts for the mounting hardware. Just got a quality 35A ESC for it the other day, and I promise not to steal it from the project again this time.

Other details not needed for flight are things like fabbing the motor vent intake wire grille. I have patterns drawn/dimensioned for both this part and the striping scheme, so it's just a matter of getting to it. I definitely plan to fly it this summer. Last year their was the Roy Hansrote Seaplane meet not too far from here. I need to look and see if they have it this year. It would motivate me to finish all the details, since I don't want it to be seen without the finished paint scheme.:(

EC, I could really see having a motor home as a build room/combination event hotel, if I had the loot.:D

Bill

E-Challenged
04-18-2008, 06:42 PM
I always advise newbie mh'ers against buying too old and/or too small bsed on personal experience. An oldie can be a moneypit unless you are a good truck mechanic, plumber, HVAC, carpenter, electrician and RV roof and siding leak damage repairman and can do most repairs and upgrades yourself. A 2-3 year old rig that needs nothing major and that you can buy for cash can be the best deal for most of us. You also need to think about the typical 8 miles per gallon @ $4.00 per gallon. It would be kinda neat to modify a motorhome to serve as a mobile model plane transport and work shop, but most 27 footers and smaller don't have much extra space in them. I stuff five small models and field gear and my folding mobility scooter in my Toyota Camry Wagon to go flying nowadays. I wish I had our old Dodge Maxi Van camper with bubble top to modify as a model plane vehicle.

FlyingMonkey
04-18-2008, 10:11 PM
Hey Bill, I saw your plane at Sun-N-Fun.

I took pictures, and I will post them on here when I get the chance.

Bill G
04-19-2008, 06:01 PM
Sounds good FM. I guess he's there a lot with the Seabee.

EC, I couldn't agree more. As an ex mechanic, I've always said you never want used trucks/vans/rvs unless they are in excellent, low mileage condition. Otherwise a money pit with constant problems. Personally, I wouldn't want any of them other than new.

Bill G
05-12-2008, 05:11 AM
Finally got the motivation to finish the paint scheme. Not even quite sure how I got it :D but glad I did. I had the dimensions worked out a year ago, which was a job in itself, to match the plane that I'm replicating. Definitely the toughest taping job I've done for a stripe scheme. The masked off pic below makes it look much easier than it really is. The fact that everything is "reversed" really screws with you head.

This time I stood far back and used almost an entire Model Masters can, applying slowly. Only had to scrape a bit of bleedoff away here and there, for pretty clean strip lines. I probalby should invest in expensive tape, but the standard mask does pretty well, as long as you don't bomb the paint on.

Still a number of details to go, like making the engine grille and inboard strut joint covers, but basically flyable. Now that the painting is complete, I'll be much more motivated to finish the plane.

Maine Flyer
05-12-2008, 09:45 AM
Hi Bill,
Really good to see you going on this project again!:) Great job on the painting.

Keep at it....

Joe

Bill G
05-12-2008, 05:15 PM
Hi Bill,
Really good to see you going on this project again!:) Great job on the painting.

Keep at it....

JoeThanks Maine Flyer

I'm amazed to see 13 views on the painted pic of the fuse. Maybe I should get on this and finish. There are actually people here at this forum, viewing the works.

There is a large float meet not too far away in 2 weeks I believe. It may give me the inscentive to finish the plane for the meet.

FlyingMonkey
05-12-2008, 07:14 PM
darn right there is Bill, me being one of them, so get going! :D

FlyingMonkey
05-12-2008, 07:43 PM
here are those promised pics from Sun-N-Fun

Bill G
05-13-2008, 02:57 AM
here are those promised pics from Sun-N-Fun
Looks great. Thanks.
I don't think I'll be modelling all those rivets though.:D

FlyingMonkey
05-13-2008, 03:08 AM
don't wuss out on us now... :D

Bill G
05-18-2008, 07:02 AM
don't wuss out on us now... :D
Well I fabbed the inner wing strut aero farings, which you can sorta see in your third pic Fred.:D

Wasn't too difficult, as they are made from 2 triangles of 1/64 ply, CA glued to the aluminum struts. After gluing the plates in place, the space between them was basically filled with CA, so they shouldn't water swell, as they are basically solid plastic now.

Bill G
05-23-2008, 03:39 PM
Here's the white struts on it now. I think I need to get the grille out of the way now.

pd1
05-23-2008, 05:50 PM
Hi Bill, What's it weigh?
Where's it balance?
What's the wing loading?
When you going to fly it?

Paul

Bill G
05-24-2008, 04:30 AM
Hi Bill, What's it weigh?
Where's it balance?
What's the wing loading?
When you going to fly it?

Paul
Hopefully it will fly soon. The biggest holdup is the lack of lake around here.:D There is a large state park lake nearby, but I believe you can only fly there in the off seasons. It is flyable as of now.

I'm away from home, so I don't have access to specs, but it isn't light. Probably a solid 5 pounds AUW as I remember. May very well be around 25oz/sq-ft, but I've flown smaller stuff with loadings that high before. The constant chord Clark-Y airfoil at should be fairly efficient at this large of span also. Wing loading for a 30" parkflyer is a lot different than on a 52" plane. The outrunner is rated at 330W also, which should be ample, although probably needing every bit of it.

As for balance, I'll set a conservatively far forward cg of 20%. The good thing is that it seems to balance at around 20% center chord now, with the batt installed in its forward postion, with room to move the cg more aft if needed. Shouldn't need any lead to set the cg, as it looks now.

Bill

katobaggins
06-24-2008, 10:15 PM
Thanks for referencing this tread on the other board. I've come to believe while reading your tread that the Seabee is too much of a leap for me to make for never having scratch built anything in the past. But I just love the looks of her and will do it sometime in the future. But for now, I'll find something a little easier to deal with. (Edit: I have built an all composite Terminator hand launch glider before, including making a fuse mold and casting the fuse pod, and vacuum bagging the wings. So, I'm not a complete newbee to scratchbuilding. ;-) )

I'll be following this built to the end. Hope you put her in the air soon!

BTW, you've done an excellent job on this ship. I'll take me many planes to get me to your level of competence.

E-Challenged
08-09-2008, 04:05 AM
I would be happier if you had about 100 watts per pound ( 500 watts ) considering the fat fuselage, overall drag and the the desirability of water takeoffs. The standard motocalc numbers like 70 watts per pound work ok for standard/streamlined type models but not necessarily for "exotic" and somewhat heavy and draggy scale models. Nothing scarier than a scale model struggling to take off and climb with a tendency to tip stall due to lack of sufficient air speed and no extra power on tap.

Bill G
08-19-2008, 01:45 AM
Thanks for the comments Kato.
You know I was very fortunate to have some unusual level of Seabee desire and motivation which I still have no idea where it came from, when I started this build. That was the good part. The bad part is after going through it, I don't know if I'd ever be insane enough to do something like it again.

EC, I too think it should be just powered well enough. Or I hope.:D
One nice feature is the large constant chord wing, as far as the tip stall thing is concerned. The Horner tips may help a bit too.

There is a another Roy Hansrote seaplane fly-in coming up this year, so I think I really should try to get there.

Bill

Son of Paleface
08-25-2008, 07:17 PM
Does it have any washout in the tips ???

Bill G
08-26-2008, 05:11 AM
Does it have any washout in the tips ???
I usually am a big fan of washout. Since I had to build the the wing ends onto the foam cores, there is a bit of washout incorporated, but not much. The constant chord/high wing planes are a less tip stall prone, and hopefully the Horner tips will help even more.

Bill

flicka5
09-02-2008, 03:02 AM
It Flies! :p>:p>

Bill G
09-04-2008, 04:57 AM
It Flies! :p>:p>
Well I tried to add a lot of detail, but I don't have an opening front hatch.:D

pd1
09-04-2008, 12:36 PM
When I saw the Avatar I got a good laugh.
I wonder how long that will last.

Any progress on the See Bee?

Paul

FlyingMonkey
09-04-2008, 12:47 PM
Yeah, I noticed it too, I was wondering if there was some new development that spurred the avatar change.

Bill G
09-07-2008, 06:45 PM
Hi Paul and Fred,
If I had a lake by the house, it would have been flown.:D
My best bet is probably a large state park lake nearby, called Moraine. Seaplanes are only allowed in the off-season, so I think it is starting soon.

I think the avatar will be more like a "pop-up". Knowing the strong arm mentality of that place, they will probably come here and have something to say.

E-Challenged
09-07-2008, 07:45 PM
Bring a foamy like an Easy Star for the cops to fly. I would fly off a smooth pave field and get to know it's quirks before attempting water take-offs and landings. I have the Cleveland plans for a future Seabee project but still in the middle of home remodel with no place to build. Still flying my Peashooter and the others.

Bill G
02-15-2009, 07:33 PM
Okay, so it hasn't flown yet, but it is ready to fly this year. I've had a few excuses in the past, being that I need all the scale details on it for pictures, before flying.:D
Of the few details left, the engine cover grill was the major piece still needed. I made a frame from wire, taking a hour or so to bend to fit, and then soldered the joint. I tried soldering the bars on, but found that to be a pain, and just CA glued them on. With all the grille bars interconnected, they seem held together well enough with CA glue. Just a few decals and small details to go.

Chris F
02-26-2009, 09:30 AM
Looks great Bill. Glad to see you're back on the job.

Bill G
02-27-2009, 05:40 PM
Thanks Chris. You know I may have some renewed interest in this plane, after building a Saro A1 jet flying boat, and starting my current Macchi M33 flying boat build. The seaplane thing is really starting to catch on with me. Add the good ol GWS Beaver float plane, and I'll have 4 that I could take to the water.
The only water flying I've done, is when the park field was flooded out. Just enough to take the Beaver off from.:D

E-Challenged
03-05-2009, 06:10 PM
Yahoo Bill!, glad to see you are back at it. Recommend that you hook up with a "real" veteran scale model builder/flyer (preferably electric scale flyer) to look it all over and make sure that cg and wing and tail surfaces and thrust offsets give it a fighting chance at a successful maiden flight. If possible, have this person conduct high speed taxi tests on a smooth runway to determine whether the power is sufficient with some leeway for takeoff and safe cruise speeds. Let him maiden it and trim it out, then hand it over to you at altitude on a buddy box, so you can get the feel of it and begin to relax. Let him land it and have a conference with tips about takeoff, safe climb angles and trim settings for takeoff, cruise and landing. Same thing for water takeoff and landing attempts. Don't try to fly in gusty conditions, with a big audience ,and with other air traffic, and before you are confidant and ready. Keep the climb angle shallow during takeoff and keep the airspeed up for a fighter type landing until you know it's stall and snap roll tendencies. Best of luck, don't do anything impulsive like taxi testing and saying "what the heck" and giving 'er the gun.