JR/Horizon Hobby Service

[Hemicyon]

I recently bought a JR XP6102 at my LHS. I'm very new to the hobby and it was my first purchase towards building my own planes and getting away from the RTF planes I have flown this past summer. I did my research and checked features etc before I made the purchase so I knew what I wanted. At the time of purchase the radio was take out of the box briefly to show me a few features but the battery died soon after and I was never able to really test it in the store. I never realized what a problem this would cause.

A few weeks after the purchase I decide to take the radio out of its box for the FIRST TIME since I brought it home and read the manual and start learning how to operate and program it. I was starting to order parts for the plane I wanted and I wanted to be ready when I finally saved up enough for the parts I needed to complete the Plane, my first "real" plane. I also had ordered an adapter cable for FMS for my radio and wanted to try it out on that. Soon after starting to familiarize myself with the radio I was using it on FMS and the FMS model starts to spin wildly out of control. To make a long story shorter the radio was defective and the aileron channel was sticking far from center. Not the stick mind you something internal.

The next day Im told at the Hobby Shop (in Nashua, NH BTW) that they don't warranty the Radios and I needed to send it back to JR/Horizon. I wont even get into the argument of whether or not the LHS should have done the right thing and exchanged it because thats another issue.

Anyways I've edited the rest of this post as Horizon has saved the day.

I was initially unhappy with thier generic response to a service request but after pleading my case in lengthy emails they decided to help me out and went above and beyond my expectations.

[Hemicyon]

Just figured out that Horizon owns Parkzone and Hobbyzone, the first plane I ever bought (just a few months ago) at the LHS was a Firebird Commander, then I bought a Stryker and a Slo-V shortly after...the Slo-V motor and ESC/Rx fried about one month after I bought it so I replaced the parts thinking it was cheaper and easier then sending it in for warranty work. The Stryker has been a super fun plane in all honesty, the Firebird Commander was a waste of money(got old too fast), the Slo-V I have mixed feelings on, but when its running its fun to fly.

[Hotshot Charlie]

I've always had "perfect" service from Horizon. No problems what so-ever. Usually NO COST to me other than shipping.

Sorry for your troubles. Horizon should do the right thing, please keep us informed.

[zappedalaskan]

Did you extend the antenna? A sim can mess your radio up if you don't extend it. My Elite4 won't run my hummingbird anymore. It still runs the sim though. I wish you the best, I have always had great luck with JR and horizon. Give them a chance to look at it and send you a new one or fix it.
it appears that you wrote this post before it even got to them. How can they help if it's not even there yet? Give them a chance to help you before coming unglued about it. Good luck with your radio. I am sure they will set it straight.
Jay

[Hemicyon]

It was doing it before I had it on the sim, so it wasn't that. I could see it on the display, just asumed the display was a bit glitchy,and since I've read you can heat up your TX by not extending your antenna yes it was. Not sure if this is true or not because I've heard conflicting opinions. Anyways...

Got a call from them today and they are taking care of me. Good care of, better then I could have asked for actually. So it looks like I'll have my radio back sooner than expected.

I'm editing my post right now....

The LHS still didn't handle it right...

BUT, the happy ending is that today from UPS I got my new Charger, 2 Lipos, first brushless motor and CC ESC with the USB programing cable, Props etc etc etc so now I have plenty to play with while I wait for my radio to get back from Horizon and my first plane will be ready...and I have time off next week! (One other reason I've been so impatient.)

[zappedalaskan]

I am glad it worked out for you! Best of luck with your new plane.
Regards,
Jay

[Hemicyon]

Thanks!
:D

Now I have soldering to do....

[debhicks]

The instructions we get from Horizon on probable defective parts are send it directly to them. As with GWS. Now if we can fix the customer up at the time and then stand waiting for a replacement we will. Not knowing all the facts behind the stock availablility at your LHS or their resoning for not helping you we will never know. It is not the responsibility of the LHS to take care of warranties.

Having said that, Horizon has always been super fast in replacing things that we as a service shop can definatly tell them was absolutely not the customers fault. Like, a glow RTF first flight filled up with fuel and was crashed. Problem......Stopper was inproperly seated in the tank and came out during or before flight. (Very green flyer and took the box as gospel, RTF) Horizon took care of it within 2 weeks. Because of the way the customer handled himself and we happened to have another one in stock we replaced the plane and waited for the replacement to be sent.

Parkzone has a cub that one of our customers has. He ordered a new fuselage to have an extra plane but the gearbox did not have the appropriate parts on it to allow the proper mounting of a prop. We happen to stock all the gearboxes and parts for this plane so again, the way the customer handled himself and our availability we were able to help him out right away and wait on a replacement gear box from Horizon.

Horizon has always been helpful, supportive of both us the Dealer and our customers. It is all in how it is handled at the beginning. As I stated, our instructions from all of the hobby suppliers is not to handle warranty problems except the advise the customer to send it back to the manufacturer. Hitec is like that as well. Our other part of the business is the same way but because we service alot of things in our business we have the capablity to troubleshoot and if it can be handled at the moment and the customer handles the situation well we will.

Here is a bad example of poor customer handling of a situation. Engine purchased with a RTR Truck (big motor) was not running right. Customer was mad because his son was able to tear up the nylon knuckes of this high powered truck right off the bat. Then the motor wasn't running well. As this was a special order, we did not have another to give him so, after taking a couple hours of unpaid time to tear down the motor to see what was wrong we were able to determine that the seal had not been installed properly. The factory would not send the part to fix it and insisted they get the motor back to do warranty repair. It took 3 months for the factory to get the motor back. This was an expensive motor and since it was a special order we did not mark up the product to the standard or norm selling price. They were friends and we just made enough to make it worth our time to handle the transaction. Now, I will be the first to say that 3 months is a long time to wait for a recreational product. If at the time we were able to order another motor and wait for the defective one to come back then would have. Two things were a factor, we would then have a motor in stock that we would not be able to sell anytime soon (big) and this was a particularly slow time for business. The customer lost sight of two things, It was a favor for us to sell it to him and he knew that from the beginning. He purchased it from us because it was a good deal and two we were at no point in control of the product as the factory is very specific that they get the defective product to repair or replace. He is a lawyer and sent us, his friends, a threatening letter about the handling of the warranty. This was a Thundertiger Truck.

Ironically the letter was recieved two day before the engine arrived back to us. We paid to have it sent back and was charged to receive it back. The engine was repaired but the factory determined improper use and fuel caused the problem. Thier call not ours. They did not charge us for the repair. We did not charge them for the shipping cost and the net profit from the favor was in the negative after all shipping cost were paid. We gave the truck and engine back with the letter and instructions to go to the other LHS for any more servicing or deal directly with the manufacturer for any other warranty issues.

I share this story as a LHS as sometimes the whole story is not told. It is an example only and not reflective of the person who has started this thread. I am not making excuses for the LHS, Horizon or the customer just sharing some insight from the other side. Afterall I am a consumer as well. :)

I can say that nothing sold through our Hobby and CB Shop has a warranty stating that we are responsible for handling any warranty problems that may arrise. We do however take care of what we can right there even if it does mean we loose money, time and perhaps have to eat the defective part. We do try to take care of our good customers to the best of our ability. It is a hard lesson to learn but have learned that we cannot make everyone happy, but a 99% satified customer rating makes up for the 1% that can't or won't be appeased. It does not make the transaction either financially and personally any easier. My going into business handbook didn't have the rules for those rare occassions that are awkward and difficult. :(

[Hemicyon]

It is, however, the responsibility of the LHS to take care of thier customers. I wasn't asking them to take care of warranty service I was asking them to exchange the bad product they sold me for a good one. Warranty doesn't even enter into the situation as the term warranty implies defects or malfunctions that arise from normal USAGE. I never got to USE it unless you count the fw minutes on FMS that luckily let me notice the problem right away, THANK YOU FMS. Believe me the last thing I wanted was to feel I couldn't shop at a nice big hobby shop a stones throw from my house. I already posted all of the details about this LHS experience on another RC forum.

To clarify on this forum, early this past summer I decided to try out RC planes after I bought a 20 dollar toy RC plane from a toy store to play with my daughter in the park.(Ok it was for me mostly) Anyways it gave me the bug and I went to the LHS I had driven past for years saying, "I should go check out what they have." I had always wanted to try R/C planes but the last time I looked the cost for a trainer was too high and not to mention the horror stories about first flight disasters. Plus Im a solitary kind of person and clubs don't interest me, especially since it appears that the ones in my area seem to frown upon the electrics that appeal to me.

I bought a Hobbyzone Plane and a month later a Parkzone Stryker and Slo-V. I had been in the shop all summer for parts, books, magazines, videos, batteries, extra chargers, add-ons for my planes, you name it. I also asked advice etc explaining that I was new every time I spoke with them.

So when I was ready to finally start trying to build my own plane I decided on getting a radio first. Never once was I told they had a no return policy. The batteries in the radios weren't even charged enough to even test them thoroughly in the store anyways. They knew me, knew I was new, knew I was saving for the rest of my plane etc...

So when I brought in the radio to show them it was broken after taking it out of the box for the first time what I got was "Sometimes those new ones stick a bit, just try using it for a while", then when the owner or manager looked at it, "oh no this is defective you need to send this in for service, we dont handle any warranty work". I got no apology, or even a drop of sympathy, all I got was an enriching story of how the manager (I'm asuming manager because he made the call not to exchange it) once had a radio problem and heroically saved his plane at the last second, all while he held my radio and fiddled with it preventing me from even walking out so as to not be subjected to his rambling. The clerk who was helping me with the radio even started to tell the manager how he just sold me the radio etc etc as if to try and convince him to do the right thing. He even pulled me aside when I was on my way out after I made it clear I was unhappy that he would take care of the shipping cost if I brought in the reciept. Feel guilty much? Good....Amazing how I went from good customer to lying cheat in an instant when some effort on thier part was at risk.

Now lets address "Just try using it for a while", a bad radio? I may be new but thats not even safe. Thank god I didn't listen because it got much worse the next time I tried it on the sim. The more I tried it the worse it got. Its just good that I never tried it on a real plane.

As I believe you pointed out it would have been easy for them to take one of the stack of radios like mine of the shelf and exchange it and deal with it rather then make me. It would have cost them nothing or very little at best. I was told the same thing by a manufacturer.

I know there are great shops out there and I'll find one, got 4 more in the area to try. It's clear this shop only cares about thier big spender gas customers a I'm sure it would have been different if I was spending piles of cash, I just can't afford that.

I admit, I'm new the the hobby and ignorant, but I know whats bad business. You would think a shop would look out for new guys as we are thier future revinue source. I did nothing wrong here and refuse to be hosed without someone making it up to me, Horizon has because they know whats bad business too. Am I still angry witht he shop, you bet, and if they close tomorrow it would bring me nothing but joy. I have to make the most of my hobby dollars, I dont have 10k worth of toys to amuse myself while I wait patiently wait for a monster company with unlimited funds to take thier time replacing a defective product.

I used to own my own business and I don't accept bad business practices just because "this is how most places handle it" or "thats thier policy" those are terms used to hide behind. They always have a choice and thier choice was to leave me out in the cold.

I want to finish by reminding everyone that Horizon picked up the slack the LHS left behind.

[debhicks]

I am sorry you had a bad experience. It does sound like you were not treated as the loyal customer you were. Our policy is customer service first then the sale. I will admit that I probably loose 50% of the sales because of the come look feel and go buy somewhere else syndrome but the 50% we retain are happy with us. That is more rewarding that the $$.

Here is an interesting story, had a customer come in and have me take down a big ARF the "TaylorCraft" and unpack it from the box so he could look it over. Get all the spec's off of it and said he'd think about it and went to another Hobby Shop in town and purchased everything from them. Guess what he did then, called and asked if we would go out and help him test fly it. :) Isn't that just precious. :)

Our goal is to retain customers not rob them and run. As a matter of fact one of our loyal customers is going to get a good customer bonus tomorrow if or when he stops in. My husband and I sit in the evening discussing our customers and how we can show them we appreciate them. When times are tough in the retail time like they are now, it's not that easy to do that. Hopefully soon, the gas prices will drop back down and people will start going out shopping again. But we remember the ones who do visit and catch up with them when we can. :)

Hopefully your problem will soon be resolved as well. Glad to see it hasn't turned you completly off of the hobby. :)

[Hemicyon]

North Carolina is it? Might be worth the drive from NH for a shop like that. :p

First of all I hope you told that guy that wanted you to test that plane exactly what he could do with it? If not get me his email address and I'll do it for you! (JK JK I think I've sent enough scathing emails for a while, I'm usually really not a bad guy unless someone messes with my limited play time.)

I'll get over it...its just a bummer because I really wanted to stick with that shop. The prices were comparable to online and if not the shipping made it even and I always liked the idea of being able to go back to the store if something was wrong. Since now its obvious I cant, what possible reason do I have to go there? Just so they can smile while they swipe my credit cards and bail out on me the first hint of a problem?

The other thing is, the guy who made the choice to not help me out (the one I assume was the owner or manager, its a big place so who knows) was one of two guys I never really dealt with much except to pick up parts I'd ordered. The rest of the staff had helped me out on several occasions and were at least familiar with me.

Maybe they disliked my electric favortism, it was obvious the way the place was set up with all the big gas/glow whatever you call them planes up front displayed on shelves and hanging from the ceiliing. While the electric stuff was mostly piled on a table and few shelves in the back, sharing the space with the car and helicopter stuff :confused: . Bah I'm just speculating lol. It could happen !

I remember the last thing I said with a big smile on my face walking out the door with my brand new shiny XP6102, "Thanks so much guys for all of your help you guys are always great !".

I just trusted them...too bad the feeling wasn't mutual...

[debhicks]

In the end the plane did not make but one flight and then it was crashed. He didn't charge his batteries. I told him. I think he just forgot who he bought it from.

He is an elderly man and I don't have a grudge but it is a scenerio that happens all the time. I know what to say to them now, instead of getting upset, please call the shop you bought it from and see if they will help or resolve the problem for you. If they won't then please come see me. I'll see if I can do something for you. :)

I try not to stay mad long as it stresses me out:)

[Hotshot Charlie]

Hey Debbie,

No reason to stay mad. Only worry about the things you can control. I think you handled the situation very well. Hey why don't you open a hobby shop in my home town ! :-)

BTW, the one flight, crash....... sort of reminds me of the new NBC sitcom, Earl...... Karma ?????

[debhicks]

I got a better idea:) Why don't you open a hobby store in your local area:)

One is enough for us.

However we are just phone call away, email away or a hop skip and a jump.

[Hotshot Charlie]

Why don't you open a hobby store in your local area

Hey Debbie,

One thing keeps me from doing just that......... $Money$ ! :-)

We have had two or three hobby stores here in Tupelo, and there is a market for it here, just seems no one wants to "hang-in there" with one. I recently helped our local hobby store owner out for an hour here and there to free him up to do personal things during the day. I didn't take pay for it, just counted hours and got some merchandise occasionally. But the owner decided he wanted to use his Master's Degree and go back to teaching and sold the store out..... the new owner moved it to south Alabama (Foley) so there you have it.

If I had the funds, I would open one !

Good luck and God Bless !

[Hemicyon]

Hey wasn't Elvis born in Tupelo? Maybe his daughter would spot you a loan !

:p

[Hotshot Charlie]

Yep, Elvis was born and lived here for quite a few years, seems like until he was 13 years old. I am friends with the hardware store (Tupelo Hardware) where Gladys bought Elvis his first guitar. Elvis wanted a .22 calibre rifle, but his mom said no and worked out a deal to get him the guitar. heheheee

Anyway, back to subject..... Funding and I would start a hobby shop.... I have 30 years in at my present job and wouldn't mind starting a new career. Now..... money....... heheheeee $$$$$

[debhicks]

We can tell you the only way you can open a hobby shop and keep it viable is to either sacrifice greatly personnally or be able to have independant income that will support you and allow you to borrow from to fund the hobby business. We would not be able to keep ours going as it is our sole source of income if we didn't have two other divisions, and sometimes that can be tough as well.

It's not easy but I really like the customers we have in the hobby business and in our other endeavours as well. As we have a pretty loyal mail order base as well. Sometimes I mess up and forget to update the quantities on the site as we are selling to walkin customers but the mail order customers have been great. I usually pack and ship the same day I get the order. I talk to each of them personally as if they did walk in the shop. And unless they are bast the midwest they usually get their stuff within two days.

Horizon, even if I do disagree with the way they are in the hobby business as well as being a major distributor, has stuck with us during the thin parts, and have pulled through when there were problems, all three of them, over the last 7 years. I am not going to make excuses for your LHS for not taking care of you because I am not sure of their situation. It is odd that Horizon is so slow unless they are mandated to send the radio in to the manufacture. Actually Will would have looked and seen what was causing the problem while you waited and determined what it was. Then we call our sales rep, just to keep him in the loop, and then tech support. I would have strongly suggested to them to go ahead and send out a replacement and then I would know why they could or couldn't do just that. That is just the way we do business. Then you would have been a well informed consumer. Afterall, I am a consumer as well and would have to go through the same hoops you would to get something I got defective replaced.

Some ask me why I stay in business as ours is solely dependant on those who have disposable income. I just simply say our whole life savings hangs on the walls and sits on the shelves so we don't have a choice. :) Understand $$ very well. :)

[qban_flyer]

The next day Im told at the Hobby Shop (in Nashua, NH BTW) that they don't warranty the Radios and I needed to send it back to JR/Horizon. I wont even get into the argument of whether or not the LHS should have done the right thing and exchanged it because thats another issue.

Most Hobby Shops won't exchange electronic equipment since their supplier will, in all likelihood, not take it back from them. Hobbico happens to be one of those suppliers, they want the customer to deal with them if the item is deffective. I had two defective G/P Li-Po battery packs that Hobbico replaced after a few e-mails back and forth. Horizon/JR is the same way.

In the old days things were a bit different, the LHS and the product manufacturer (most were US made) accomodated the customer and went out of their way to have the item replaced at the store level.

Not anymore.

[Hemicyon]

As I said in another post that you may not have read I was told by Horizon Service it would have been no problem for the LHS to return it ot them as they (Horizon) do it all the time.

[qban_flyer]

As I said in another post that you may not have read I was told by Horizon Service it would have been no problem for the LHS to return it ot them as they (Horizon) do it all the time.

Not so with the three bad JR servos I got from one of my LHS in the area. I bought twelve of them for three new 3D e-planes I was putting together, three of them were "chattering". The LHS would do nothing about it (three days after I bought them) so I had to deal with Horizon directly. They made good on the servos but I wasted 10 days of good flying weather waiting for the replacements.

I agreee that the LHS should be the one exchanging a brand new deffective item, after all they are the ones getting my money, not the manufacturer. They are the ones I am dealing with, not the distributor. Times have changed, I no longer deal with that LHS. I have switched to another one that is 12 miles further from home, but one that is willing to satisfy my needs.

[qban_flyer]

The instructions we get from Horizon on probable defective parts are send it directly to them. As with GWS. Now if we can fix the customer up at the time and then stand waiting for a replacement we will. Not knowing all the facts behind the stock availablility at your LHS or their resoning for not helping you we will never know. "It is not the responsibility of the LHS to take care of warranties".

:(

Hi Debb,

I have added quotations marks to the sentence in your post that I am replying to. It's the last one above.

The LHS I am now dealing with will exchange any and all deffective merchandise, then deal with the distributor directly in solving the issue. Furthermore, they will even solder connectors I have bought from them to ESC (both bullet and battery types), to motors and/or to batteries purchased at their establishment. They do this at no extra charge to the customer.

This is what I call a service oriented business, one that is packed with customers every time I go there.

I like that type of service and don't mind driving the extra distance to get it.

[Hemicyon]

Qban, I think I'm not making my point clear, which is, Horzion will take the defective parts from a LHS. What I thought you were saying was that they wont accept the parts and the LHS has no choice. THis isn't that case. I see what you were trying to say now and I think we both agree.

As in most businesses vendors want you selling thier product and they should go out of thier way to insure you continue to do so. Especially a large shop like the one I was dealing with. So believe me I know as you do the LHS can refuse to handle it for you, but dont let them fool you into blaming the vendor for the lack of customer service, its thier choice not to, as I think Deb's posts clearly show...

So as I said they COULD have they just didn't want to and thats why I have a problem and why you lost 10 days of flying much like myself. I mean thats like saying if they got a shipment and tested one of the products in it in the shop and found it defective they coudn't get it replaced by the vendor. Of course they could ship it back for credit or replacement, its ridiculous to think otherwise because no one does business that way and if they do they don't stay in business very long. The vendor never even needs to know it was sold and probably wouldn't care, its all internal at the LHS. Horzion has no way of knowing what a LHS sold or didn't.

How they would PREFER to handle it is not my concern.

Qban I want a store like that! kinda like the soldering and stuff though...

[PhilipShum]

I know what to say to them now, instead of getting upset, please call the shop you bought it from and see if they will help or resolve the problem for you. If they won't then please come see me. I'll see if I can do something for you.

Dear Debbie,

I like your approach. Perfect.

Philip Shum