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Jeremy Z
10-13-2005, 07:01 PM
First, if there's a link you can give me that explains it, along with unexpected things, can you point me in that direction.

Second, I think I know the basic theory, but doing is different altogether.

I bought the T-Hawk and am awaiting delivery. It has a 3 channel transmitter with a single stick on the right, and a slider for throttle on the left back side.


If I push the stick forward, that is down elevator, right?
If I pull it towards me, it is up elevator, right?
If I push the stick left, that is left rudder, (since there are no ailerons) correct?
..and vice-versa for pushing it right, correct?But mainly, I'm wondering what is going to suprise me. For instance, I read somewhere that when I dial in some left rudder, the plane will start to bank and turn left, but that when I let the stick return to center, the plane will still be turning left. Is that true? Does it also work like that for elevator inputs, so that it will keep going up or down until I apply counter-elevator to level it off?

What about hand-launching? Will have to trim in some up elevator so it doesn't crash as soon as it's out of my hand?

How do I hold the transmitter (I'm righty) when I'm throwing the plane?

I heard that the instructions for the T-Hawk say to climb to 100' or so, then cut motor power and practice some controls on the way to a landing. Is this a good way to start? What's next?

Any other tips or things to watch for? (remember, I'm totally green)

(Assume I don't have an instructor)

Thanks in advance.

Jeremy

PS - I'm going to have my wife take some digital video of my first flights, so you will be able to see how your advice helps, and maybe have a laugh or two, hehehe.

aeropal
10-13-2005, 07:16 PM
Did you try the simulator links (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=14294&postcount=23) suggested in your previous thread?

meegosh
10-13-2005, 09:37 PM
I have only flown a plane once, and that was numerous years ago. I have ordered a slow stick and will be flying for the first time sometime next week. I have found the simulators a good start on grasping the concept of flight, from what I remember from years ago. You seem like you understand that the controls for the elevator are reversed, ie up goes down, down goes up. Some of the newer transmitters have a servo reverse switch that can make it so that when you hit the stick up, your plane goes up. Not the opposite. So if that is what is confusing you then just get a Tx that will allow you to swith the servos.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask, I will try to help, and I am sure the others will too! :D

rcers
10-13-2005, 10:08 PM
Any other tips or things to watch for? (remember, I'm totally green)

(Assume I don't have an instructor)

Without an instructor, you should buy about 5-10 airplanes. You will go through them quickly!

There are likely 10k+ RCers in Chicagoland. Go to a local field and get some help! Ask someone here......get HELP!

If you just can't do that....spend hours on a sim. They help a great deal.

soarr
10-13-2005, 10:58 PM
Jeremy-

[when I dial in some left rudder, the plane will start to bank and turn left, but that when I let the stick return to center, the plane will still be turning left. Is that true?]
The T-Hawk has a bit of dihedral in the wings so it should correct itself if you are in a shallow turn. Steep turns will probably require you to correct the turn in the opposite direction before you lose too much altitude. When you start, keep your turns smooth and try not to overcontrol; when you want to turn left, for example, give it a little left rudder and wait for the plane to bank. Responsiveness will also depend on your airspeed.

[Does it also work like that for elevator inputs, so that it will keep going up or down until I apply counter-elevator to level it off?]

This also depends on your airspeed. If you're climbing at full throttle, then you can slow down to level off. I suggest setting up your plane to fly level at 1/2 throttle.

What about hand-launching? Will have to trim in some up elevator so it doesn't crash as soon as it's out of my hand?
It's best to have your plane trimmed for level flight at 1/2 throttle. Hand launch at full throttle and throw it straight and level. Try to keep it level until to gain enough airspeed for a gentle climb. When you have enough altitude, then you can make turns.

[How do I hold the transmitter (I'm righty) when I'm throwing the plane?]
I hold the Tx with my left hand and throw with my right. Remember, straight and level.

[I heard that the instructions for the T-Hawk say to climb to 100' or so, then cut motor power and practice some controls on the way to a landing. Is this a good way to start? What's next?]

That's not a bad way to start. If you crash, you will have less damage than crashing at full throttle. However, keep in mind that you need to keep your airspeed up. If you cut your power, and don't keep up your airspeed, the plane won't respond well. Do what's comfortable for you. If you prefer to go to 1/3 or 1/2 throttle, then do that. Practice cutting your power for landing. Also practice cutting your power if you see you're losing control and you're too close to the ground.

[Any other tips or things to watch for? (remember, I'm totally green)]
Plan your takeoff, flight pattern, and landings. For example, take off, fly straight into a gentle climb; when you have enough airspeed, fly a rectangular or circular pattern then slow down and start your landing approach. Land, then do it again.

Other tips:
Know what obstacles are around you.
Take off into the wind and land into the wind.
If you missed your landing, plan what you would do. Throttle up and try again? Would you have enough room to land further down?
Don't fly if there is too much wind for you to handle comfortably. It's better to have a short flight or no flight and be able to return another day with your plane (and $$) intact.

Others with much more experience than me will also have valuable suggestions for you.

--

Sky Sharkster
10-14-2005, 03:17 AM
To Jeremy, first off, Good Luck! If you can find some experienced flyers to help you through the initial flights it will increase your chances of sucess. It's not impossible to do alone but it's harder.
That said, Yes, when you push the stick forward, the elevator (and the plane) will point downward. Pull back, Up. Thus the expression "Pull UP!"
Trims are permanent adjustments to the control surfaces. Say you're flying the plane and it always turns slightly to the left. You could hold the stick slightly to the right during the entire flight to compensate but that's hard to remember and will be different at different airspeeds. The trim buttons or sliders will apply a SLIGHT bit of right (about 1/10 of the total movement, also called "Throw" or "Deflection") and when you release the stick (called "Hands Off") the STICK will return to center of the transmitter but the RUDDER will keep however much adjustment you put in the trim button (each increment or detent is called a "click"), in other words it will stay slightly to the right and (hopefully) the plane will now fly straight. It will be much easier to see when you get your transmitter, and start setting up the controls. So, yes, if you put in trims the plane will continously follow them, if you put too much (say, rudder) the plane will keep turning.
Soarr's directions for hand-launching are good, let it climb at it's own rate, don't try to force anything. I'd get it up 200-300 feet, shut the motor down and SEE what the plane does. Always keep the plane in front of you, don't get turned around or let it get downwind of your position. Try making GENTLE turns, first one direction, then the other. As it comes down practice a landing set-up at altitude, then do the same thing when it's lower. If you come in too high or short of the landing area, power it up and try again. It will "float" a long way, be prepared to start your landing a ways off and let it glide in. Don't turn too low, you'll be rebuilding a wing! Have it set up on a straight glide path first and only make minor corrections (if any) below 20 feet. At the very end, just before touchdown, a LITTLE "up" will flare out the landing and it should just gently touch the ground. Don't pull too much "up" or it will lose airspeed and stall.
Try to remember to check the plane between flights: Even a soft landing can pop a control horn or clevis loose. Try all the controls until you can move them blindfolded. It will get easier each time and as you build confidence you won't even have to think of control inputs, your mind and hands will just react. NOW you're flying! Best of luck, keep us posted! Ron

Doppelganger
10-14-2005, 04:01 AM
Download FMS Flight Sim. It's free, and it will give you added thumb time and a bit of confidence. People seem to think flying an rc plane is easy. But gravity, wind, lift, drag, and experience, or the lack of, will accompany almost every one of your flights. I really think you should consider the flight sim route if you're going to go it alone.

The first time your aircraft is flying toward you, you'll want to go left, and you'll end up going right. Be smart, or be prepared to shell out some bucks. Also, once you get your plane in the air, GET SOME ALTITUDE. And lots of it. When in the learning phase, altitude is your best ally. Don't even bother to turn before you get good altitude.

I'm not familiar with your plane, but if it's a "Trainer", then, if you get disoriented, or you loose control, don't panic. Just release the stick. The plane will right itself and you can then take control of it. That is if you had enough altitude. I can't stress that enough. New pilots are leery about flying high up. Don't be.

Steve

meegosh
10-14-2005, 05:23 AM
Excellent advise guys! I have read all your posts and next week when my first SS gets here I will take it way up before I attempt any turns. I think I'm going to a soccer field to practice.. I might have to land on the parking lot seeing that there is so man bumps on their fields. I will post pics of the maiden! :D

admin
10-14-2005, 05:25 AM
Two best things you can get are either a simulator or an experienced pilot. Either will significantly increase your chances of success. If you can do both you are golden :)

Good luck on the maiden there.

debhicks
10-14-2005, 10:29 AM
http://willstech.com/products/product_info.php?cPath=106&products_id=427&osCsid=ef8c2f045860f30a72dc4960d27e8e3f

This book is a very helpful book for all. Beginners and experienced.:)

AEAJR
10-15-2005, 05:34 AM
Whether you have a coach or you are trying to learn to fly on your own, you
will need to be mindful of these six areas if you are going to become a
successful RC pilot. After two years of working with new flyers at our club,
and coaching flyers on the forums, there are a few things I have seen as the
key areas to stress for new pilots. Some get it right away and some have to
work at it. They are in no particular order because they all have to be
learned to be successful.

WIND
Orientation
Speed
Altitude
Over Control
Preflight Check

1) Wind - The single biggest cause of crashes that I have observed has been
the
insistence upon flying in too much wind. If you are under an instructor's
control or on a buddy box, then follow their advice, but if you are starting
out and tying to learn on your own, regardless of the model, I recommend dead
calm to 3 MPH for the slow stick and tiger moth type planes. Under 5 MPH for
all others. That includes gusts. An experienced pilot can handle more. It
is the pilot, more than the plane, that determines how much wind can be
handled.

The wind was around 10 mph steady with gusts to 12. That was strong enough
that some of the experienced pilots flying three and four channel small
electric planes chose not to launch their electrics. This new flyer insisted
that he wanted to try his two and three channel parkflyers. Crash, Crash,
Crash - Three planes in pieces. He just would not listen. Sometimes you just
have to let them crash. There is no other way to get them to understand.

Many parkflyers can be flown in higher winds by AN EXPERIENCED PILOT. I
have flown my Aerobird in 18 mph wind (clocked speed) but it is quite exciting
trying to land it.

Always keep the plane up wind from you. There is no reason for a new flyer to
have the plane downwind EVER!


2) Orientation - Knowing the orientation of your plane is a real challenge,
even for experienced pilots. You just have to work at it and some adults have
a real problem with left and right regardless of which way the plane is going.
Licensed pilots have a lot of trouble with this one as they are accustomed to
being in the plane.

Here are two suggestions on how to work on orientation when you are not
flying.

Use a flight simulator on your PC. Pick a slow flying model and fly it a lot.
Forget the jets and fast planes. Pick a slow one. Focus on left and right
coming at you. Keep the plane in front of you. Don't let it fly over your
head.

FMS is a free flight simulator. It is not the best flight sim, but the price
is right and it works. There are also other free and commercial simulators.

FMS Flight simulator Home Page
Free download
http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html (http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html)

Parkflyers for FMS
http://gunnerson.homestead.com/files/fms_models.htm (http://gunnerson.homestead.com/files/fms_models.htm)

The links below take you to sites that provide cables that work with FMS. If
your radio has a trainer port, these cables allow you to use the trainer port
on your radio to "fly" the
simulator. This is an excellent training approach.

http://www.allthingsrc.com/webshop/ (http://www.allthingsrc.com/webshop/)
http://www.simblaster.com/ (http://www.simblaster.com/)
http://www.customelectronics.co.uk/ (http://www.customelectronics.co.uk/)

An alternative is to try an RC car that has proportional steering. You don't
have to worry about lift, stall and wind. Get something with left and right
steering and speed control. Set up an easy course that goes toward and away
from you with lots of turns. Do it very slowly at first until you can make
the turns easily. Then build speed over time. You'll get it! If it has
sticks rather than a steering wheel even better, but not required. Oh, and
little cars are fun too.


3) Too much speed - Speed it the enemy of the new pilot but if you fly too
slowly the wings can't generate enough lift, so there is a compromise here.
The key message is that you don't have to fly at full throttle all the time.
Most small electrics fly very nicely at 2/3 throttle and some do quite well at
1/2. That is a much better training speed than full power. Launch at full
power and climb to a good height, say 100 feet as a minimum, so you have time
to recover from a mistake. At 100 feet, about double the height of the trees
where I live, go to half throttle and see how the plane handles. If it holds
altitude on a straight line, this is a good speed. Now work on slow and easy
turns, work on left and right, flying toward you and maintaining altitude.
Add a little throttle if the plane can't hold altitude.


4) Not enough altitude - New flyers are often afraid of altitude. They feel
safer close to the ground. Nothing could be more wrong.

Altitude is your friend. Altitude is your safety margin. It gives you a
chance to fix a mistake. If you are flying low and you make a mistake ....
CRUNCH!

As stated above I consider 100 feet, about double tree height where I live, as
a good flying height and I usually fly much higher than this. I advise my new
flyers that fifty feet, is minimum flying height. Below that you better be
lining up for landing.


5) Over control - Most of the time the plane does not need input from you.
Once you get to height, a properly trimmed plane flying in calm air will
maintain its height and direction with no help from you. In fact anything you
do will interfere with the plane.

When teaching new pilots I often do a demo flight of their plane. I get the
plane to 100 feet, then bring the throttle back to a nice cursing speed. I
get it going straight, with plenty of space in front of it, then take my hand
off the sticks and hold the radio out to the left with my arms spread wide to
emphasize that I am doing nothing. I let the plane go wherever it wants to
go, as long as it is holding altitude, staying upwind and has enough room. If
you are flying a high wing trainer and you can't do this, your plane is out of
trim.

Even in a mild breeze with some gusts, once you reach flying height, you
should be able to take your hand off the stick. Oh the plane will move around
and the breeze might push it into a turn, but it should continue to fly with
no help from you.

Along this same line of thinking, don't hold your turns for more than a couple
of seconds after the plane starts to turn. Understand that the plane turns by
banking or tilting its wings. If you hold a turn too long you will force the
plane to deepen this bank and it will eventually lose lift and go into a
spiral dive and crash. Give your inputs slowly and gently and watch the
plane. Start your turn then let off then turn some more and let off. Start
your turns long before you need to and you won't need to make sharp turns.

I just watch these guys hold the turn, hold the turn, hold the turn, crash.
Of course they are flying in 10 mph wind, near the ground, coming toward
themselves at full throttle.

6) Preflight check - Before every flight it is the pilot's responsibility to
confirm that the plane, the controls and the conditions are correct and
acceptable for flight.

Plane - Batteries at proper power
Surfaces properly aligned
No damage or breakage on the plane
Everything secure

Radio - Frequency control has been met before you turn on the radio
A full range check before the first flight of the day
All trims and switches in the proper position for this plane
Battery condition is good
Antenna fully extended
For computer radios - proper model is displayed
All surfaces move in the proper direction

Conditions - No one on the field or in any way at risk from your fight
You are launching into the wind
Wind strength is acceptable ( see wind above )
Sunglasses and a hat to protect your eyes
All other area conditions are acceptable.

Then and only then can you consider yourself, your plane, radio and the
conditions right for flight. Based on your plane, your radio and local
conditions you may need to add or change something here, but this is the bare
minimum. It only takes a couple of minutes at the beginning of the flying
day and only a few seconds to perform before each flight.

If this all seems like too much to remember, do what professional pilots do,
take along a preflight check list. Before every flight they go down
the check list, perform the tests, in sequence, and confirm that all is right.
If you want your flying experience to be a positive one, you should do the
same. After a short time, it all becomes automatic and just a natural part of
a fun and rewarding day.

I hope some of this is useful in learning to fly your plane.

Jeremy Z
10-15-2005, 01:23 PM
...I hope some of this is useful in learning to fly your plane.

Wow Ed, I'm humbled by that response. Thanks a lot. I'm going to start a Word file to put all these great tips in, for later use. Or print them, or both.

I downloaded the FMS program & installed it on my computer. I need to look into how to control it. My 27 MHz radio doesn't have have jack for a buddy cord, so I hope I can get some other type of controller... The program itself looks great, and I have downloaded the T-Hawk model for it.

I've signed up for AMA (the trial deal for $20 for three months) and contacted local club members through AMAs table of local flyers. (though much of the stuff is out of date...)

Thanks a lot for the tips everyone. Maybe this is a candidate for a thread that should be archived or made sticky in this forum? That way, the experienced flyers could put their heart into it, and not worry that some newb will come along every week asking the same question.

Jeremy

watt_the?!
10-15-2005, 02:03 PM
ok here's my bit then.

go to your local PC or toy store and pickup a USB dual analog controller.

plug her in and bam, for $10 you got yourself a psuedo rc controller...mind you it's without ratchet, but just set your throttle to 3/4 or so with the keyboard and fly around.

Tim.

AEAJR
10-15-2005, 03:05 PM
Wow Ed, I'm humbled by that response. Thanks a lot. I'm going to start a Word file to put all these great tips in, for later use. Or print them, or both.

I downloaded the FMS program & installed it on my computer. I need to look into how to control it. My 27 MHz radio doesn't have have jack for a buddy cord, so I hope I can get some other type of controller... The program itself looks great, and I have downloaded the T-Hawk model for it.

I've signed up for AMA (the trial deal for $20 for three months) and contacted local club members through AMAs table of local flyers. (though much of the stuff is out of date...)

Thanks a lot for the tips everyone. Maybe this is a candidate for a thread that should be archived or made sticky in this forum? That way, the experienced flyers could put their heart into it, and not worry that some newb will come along every week asking the same question.

Jeremy

Why Smaug, I am shocked that anything would humble a Dragon. Dragons were flying long before men even dreamed of it! :) I am honored by your words.

As for using FMS, I think watt_the?! makes a good suggestion. Had not thought of that. watt_the?!, can you find one of these on-line and provide a link? I would like to include it in the info I provide to new flyers

Jeremy,

Aside from what watt_the?! suggests, there are two ways to get a proper hook up for FMS.

1) pick up a cheap, used 4 channel radio with a trainer port. Any FM radio should work and it doesn't even have to have a working transmitter. Buddy Boxes are just 4 channel radios with the transmitter removed or left out. I picked up a used Futaba Conquest radio for $10 just for this purpose. If you hook up with a club there may be someone who would loan or sell you an old used radio cheap. The one I have actually works and I could use it to fly a plane if I wished.

2) Commit big time and get yourself a computer radio. This is a $100-$200 commitment and probably more than you want to do right now. See if you can find what watt_the?! suggests.

If you liked the post above you may also find value here:


The New Flyer's Handbook
by Ed Anderson - AEAJR on the Forums

If you are new to RC Flying, this series of articles may be helpful in your
training. Consider them part of a beginners handbook. They are written with
the new flyer in mind.

How RC Planes Differ from RC Cars
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=17 (http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=17)

Stall
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=31 (http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=31)

Take Off and Land into the Wind
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=43 (http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=43)

Parts of the Plane
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=54 (http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=54)

The Radio - The Pilot's Cockpit
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=59 (http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=59)

Why Join a Club
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=64 (http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=64)

Lost Model Locators
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=67 (http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=67)

Radio Systems Part 1 - Standard Radios
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=44 (http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=44)

Radio Systems Part 2 - Computer Radios - A Better Investment
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=65 (http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=65)

OTHER RESOURCES

Landing techniques
http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=20 (http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=20)

The AMA, the Academy of Model Aeronautics, is an outstanding resource to the
new and experienced flyer. I encourage you to become a member. Here is an
outstanding series of articles published by the AMA that will be really useful
to new pilots. It is called, "From the Ground Up" by Bob Aberle. I highly
recommend it.
http://www.modelaircraft.org/mag/FTGU/Part1/index.html (http://www.modelaircraft.org/mag/FTGU/Part1/index.html)

RC Clubs in the United States:
http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubmain.asp?sid=3D490C78380448B0A15E31DE4FA6F552 (http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubmain.asp?sid=3D490C78380448B0A15E31DE4FA6F552)

International RC Clubs
http://www.fai.org/fai_members/addresses.asp (http://www.fai.org/fai_members/addresses.asp)

An excellent site for new flyers by Ian Pullar of Australia
http://www.newrcflyers.com/ (http://www.newrcflyers.com/)

Another great resource for new flyers by Patrick Plawner
http://plawner.net/3/ (http://plawner.net/3/)

New Electric Flyer FAQs
http://www.ezonemag.com/pages/faq/a105.shtml (http://www.ezonemag.com/pages/faq/a105.shtml)

Electric Motor information
Click on Motor Chart link on this page too
http://parkflyermotors.com/secure/shop/custom.asp?recid=11 (http://parkflyermotors.com/secure/shop/custom.asp?recid=11)

Reviews on electric motors
http://www.rcuniverse.com/product_guide/engineguide.cfm (http://www.rcuniverse.com/product_guide/engineguide.cfm)

Plane reviews
http://www.rcuniverse.com/product_guide/airplaneguide.cfm (http://www.rcuniverse.com/product_guide/airplaneguide.cfm)

Reviews on radio equipment
http://www.rcuniverse.com/product_guide/radioguide.cfm (http://www.rcuniverse.com/product_guide/radioguide.cfm)

Good luck new pilot and welcome to RC flying!

AEAJR
10-15-2005, 03:12 PM
All of what I have provided will help you but when it comes to the fear and frustration of the first flight, this is the one that will make the greatest impact on your first flying experience. Do this wrong and failure is almost assured.

THROWING UP WILL MAKE YOU SICK!

Many, perhaps most of the small electric planes can be hand launched. Many
don't even have landing gear. I take the landing gear off as it tends to grab
in the grass and flip the plane over on landing. I belly land all of mine.

Let's take a look at that hand launch as it can be troublesome for new flyers.

Always launch into the wind. ALWAYS!!!! No exceptions! If the wind is not
blowing into your face, you are facing the wrong way.
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=43 (http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=43)

Motor at FULL throttle. Remember, if you throw-UP, that will make you sick.
You want to send it straight out.

Your plane may actually lose some altitude as it gains speed. As long as the
wings are level and the plane is flat, that is fine. The plane should look
like it just flew past you, not like it is climbing, at least not right away.

Don't pull back on the elevator till it is up to speed. Maybe a TINY bit. It
should start to regain that altitude all on its own as the lift of the wing
kicks in. Until that happens, a big pull back on the elevator is like putting
on the brakes, and it will slow the plane down, the wings will lose lift and
it will stall and likely fall to one side or the other, especially if you
haven't thrown it with the wings level.


Stall?
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=31 (http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=31)

Think of it this way, if you throw the plane up, it is like starting to ride
your bicycle up hill in high gear from a standing start. VERY HARD to do.
Better to start on level ground in a lower gear, get up some speed, then
attack the hill. Same for your plane.

If you throw up, the plane can not gain speed fast enough and the wing will
not get up to minimum flying speed. Getting a firm, flat, wings even throw
takes some work. Send it out like a big dart you are tossing at a board on the
wall.

Try this visualization:

Stand under the goal post of a football or soccer field. With the motor at
full power, throw it straight out so it will fly under the cross bar of the
other goal post.

Under the other goal post? Yes under!

That should give you a nice flat throw! If you are trying to throw it OVER the
goal post, you are tipped up too much. Strong firm, flat throw, not up, or
only slightly up. Those wings need to be flat to gain lift. ( Don't worry,
by time it reaches the other end of the field it will be much higher than
that cross bar, but don't try to throw it over the bar. Let the plane do it.)

This tendency to throw up is a very common mistake that lots of new flyers
make. You will crash and crash and crash and that will just make you sick!

Remember: If you throw-up, it will make you sick!

Don Sims
10-15-2005, 04:05 PM
Fantastic advice Ed!! Thanks for posting all the excellent links!
Don

AEAJR
10-16-2005, 12:35 AM
I hope they help!

Jeremy Z
10-16-2005, 05:53 AM
Why Smaug, I am shocked that anything would humble a Dragon. Dragons were flying long before men even dreamed of it! :) I am honored by your words.

Remember, even the mighty Smaug was once a hatchling who couldn't fly! ;)

I just came home from a long day of shopping, and one of the items was a joystick. It is a big-ass thing, like you'd find in a real F-16, but it was the only proportional one that actually had a stick and was only $20 at Target. I've spent about 3 hours on FMS today, and I'm already 100% more confident in my abilities. That FMS program is fanTAStic. I feel like I really got something good for free. I read the copyright info on it, and it says that it can be given around freely, as long as you don't try to profit from it. The authors of the program even went so far as to give permission to include it with an RC package that someone is selling, so long as they don't try to get extra money for including the program.

In real life, I will be able to see the plane better, because I'm only limited by the resolution of my eyes. However, crashes are higher-stakes, so it balances out.

Jeremy

Don Sims
10-16-2005, 11:55 AM
I use one of those twin stick video game looking controllers that work on PC's. It acts almost like a real radio on FMS. That way you don't get used to using only one stick as you do on the one you picked up. The thing cost me $12 and I got it at Wal-Mart.

hiflyer
10-19-2005, 05:25 AM
First, if there's a link you can give me that explains it, along with unexpected things, can you point me in that direction.

Second, I think I know the basic theory, but doing is different altogether.

I bought the T-Hawk and am awaiting delivery. It has a 3 channel transmitter with a single stick on the right, and a slider for throttle on the left back side.

If I push the stick forward, that is down elevator, right?
If I pull it towards me, it is up elevator, right?
If I push the stick left, that is left rudder, (since there are no ailerons) correct?
..and vice-versa for pushing it right, correct?But mainly, I'm wondering what is going to suprise me. For instance, I read somewhere that when I dial in some left rudder, the plane will start to bank and turn left, but that when I let the stick return to center, the plane will still be turning left. Is that true? Does it also work like that for elevator inputs, so that it will keep going up or down until I apply counter-elevator to level it off?

What about hand-launching? Will have to trim in some up elevator so it doesn't crash as soon as it's out of my hand?

How do I hold the transmitter (I'm righty) when I'm throwing the plane?

I heard that the instructions for the T-Hawk say to climb to 100' or so, then cut motor power and practice some controls on the way to a landing. Is this a good way to start? What's next?

Any other tips or things to watch for? (remember, I'm totally green)

(Assume I don't have an instructor)

Thanks in advance.

Jeremy

PS - I'm going to have my wife take some digital video of my first flights, so you will be able to see how your advice helps, and maybe have a laugh or two, hehehe.

When I and a group of flyers were learning to fly R/C in the early '80's, one axiom we found true was to always fly "3 mistakes high".

I started with an electric single channel foamie that was rudder only. This let me understand better the function of the rudder, and later on with a powered glider, with rudder and elevator together, I learned the functions of both, and how they relate or function together.

We all glued our planes together many times, and I went through about six or so planes, or so it seems now, anyway, before learning to fly well enough to only crash occasionally, and not tear the plane up totally. BTW, if a crash is inevitable, bring the throttle immediately back to zero. This will greatly lessen the damage to the aircraft. It really helps a lot, most of the time, it seems. Also, we HAD to learn by ourselves, as there was no one around to help us. We would have gladly used an instructor if we could have found one.

I still have several nitro planes from that time, but now am trying to go totally electric, and have a plane called the Mini Manta by 3D Kits, run by Will Shepard. It is a bare bones kit and almost indestructible, according to his videos. The MM is not produced now, but a twin version is being sold only through this month, I understand, and maybe next spring for a time, and he seems to be phasing it out, then.

Has anyone out there flown either of these planes? I would like to know their experiences, if they have.

Hiflyer1.

watt_the?!
10-19-2005, 05:33 AM
i once did a stall spin in my slimer corsair at about 5 mistakes high and it didnt pull out, no matter what i tried.

we had to excavate the ground to get the engine.

Combat Drone
10-21-2005, 02:52 AM
I would like to humbly add one more thing for beginners.

Get your hands on a cheap little RC car or truck and practice steering it. Both going away and coming at you. Being on the ground greatly improves the odds of surviving that "wrong way" mistake. It will also get you used to the fact the you must reverse think it when it is coming at you. I got into planes after years of RC trucks and the lessons learned there we invaluable! Just my 2 cents.

Best Regards

AEAJR
10-27-2005, 11:22 PM
http://usairnet.com/cgi-bin/launch/code.cgi?sta=KFRG&model=avn&state=NY&Submit=Get+Forecast (http://usairnet.com/cgi-bin/launch/code.cgi?sta=KFRG&model=avn&state=NY&Submit=Get+Forecast)

I often advise new flyers who are trying to learn on their own, without help,
to avoid wind over 5 mph until they are very comfortable with their plane.
When you can launch and land it without trouble 10 times in a row, then you
can start to think about challenging a little more wind.

Of course the problem is knowing when the wind will be best. Most forecasts
give broad ranges for wind speeds. However the link at
the top will take you to a weather reporting system that can help you predict
the wind within smaller time windows.

The link will take you to the forecast for my club's flying field. Actually
it is for a small airport that is not too far from our field. All the
locations
are airports, as far as I can tell. So pick one that is closest to you and
see how well this tracks to your actual experience.

Note the third pull down has two choices, aviation model and environmental
model. These pull from two different databases. Normally they differ in the
forecast but not by a lot. Sometimes they differ greatly.

Over time you will realize which airport gives the best prediction for your
flying field. And you will decide which model tracks best to your experience.
Then you can use them to plan your flying time.

I publish a weekly flying report for the weekend for our club. I don't know
if anyone reads it, but it helps me plane my flying time and I enjoy doing it.
I typically only have one day when I can fly. By using this report I can best
plane which one it should be.

I hope you find this useful.

AEAJR
10-28-2005, 11:54 AM
First, if there's a link you can give me that explains it, along with unexpected things, can you point me in that direction.

Second, I think I know the basic theory, but doing is different altogether.

I bought the T-Hawk and am awaiting delivery. It has a 3 channel transmitter with a single stick on the right, and a slider for throttle on the left back side.


If I push the stick forward, that is down elevator, right?
If I pull it towards me, it is up elevator, right?
If I push the stick left, that is left rudder, (since there are no ailerons) correct?
..and vice-versa for pushing it right, correct?But mainly, I'm wondering what is going to suprise me. For instance, I read somewhere that when I dial in some left rudder, the plane will start to bank and turn left, but that when I let the stick return to center, the plane will still be turning left. Is that true? Does it also work like that for elevator inputs, so that it will keep going up or down until I apply counter-elevator to level it off?

Thanks in advance.

Jeremy

PS - I'm going to have my wife take some digital video of my first flights, so you will be able to see how your advice helps, and maybe have a laugh or two, hehehe.

This link is posted in the New Pilot's Handbook that I posted earlier but I thought I would post it alone as it specifically answers these questions.

The Radio - The Pilots Cockpit
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=59 (http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=59)

AEAJR
10-28-2005, 11:57 AM
PREFLIGHT AND FIRST FLIGHT PROCEDURES FOR PARKFLYERS
by Ed Anderson
aeajr on the forums

Here are some quick tips and a "check sheet" for preparing your parkflyer for
launch. If you are a new pilot, you really need to heed the wind caution.
If you are experienced, use your own judgment.

Here is how you prepare for your first flights. Skip a step and you open
yourself to problems.

Respect the wind - For new pilots, dead calm to 3 MPH is perfect. No more
than 5 MPH for
early/training flights or you will be fighting the wind, not flying the plane.

1) Make sure no one is on your channel BEFORE you turn on your radio. If
someone is flying on your channel and you turn on your radio, they will crash!
Check first!

2) Do a range check before the first launch of the day

3) Make sure that battery is fully charged just before the launch. Not 3 days
ago. Not last week. Last night or today!

4) Make sure all your surfaces are properly aligned and move properly before
you launch. Check the manual if the surfaces do not appear to be properly
aligned. Also make sure your wing is straight!

5) CHECK THE TRIMS! Check the trim slides on the side and below the stick(s).
Be sure you have not bumped one out of position. A bumped trim can cause the
plane to crash. Make sure the surfaces are properly alligned on the tail and
the wings.

6) Always launch and land into the wind - ALWAYS

7) If you are hand launching, - good firm level throw or only very slightly
up. Never
throw the plane upward - Always use full throttle!

8) Let it fly out and gain speed. I would say a minimum of 50 feet, and 100
would be better. From a hand throw, it will drop a bit, that is OK. It
should start to climb
all on its own. If you use the elevator, only use a small amount.

The plane must get up to speed before applying strong elevator. Apply the
elevator
too soon and you will "stall" the wing, the nose will drop and you will crash.

IF THIS IS YOUR FIRST FLIGHT AND YOU ARE LEARNING ON YOUR OWN

If your field will allow it, launch, fly out 100 feet or so then come back to
about 1/4 throttle and let
the plane drift down for a landing straight ahead. Just before the plane
touches the ground, cut the motor.

Use the rudder to keep it straight. Avoid turns. Do this a few times till
you understand how the plane launches and lands. Then you can go for climbs
and turns.

I fly electrics and gliders. With my gliders, I ALWAYS do a test glide, with
a hand throw, straight out then glide to the ground before launching off the
hi-start or the
winch. This confirms that the plane is balanced and everything works right.
Good idea for
electrics as well using that straight out launch, under power, then land.
Saves much damage and embarrassment.

If the plane is properly trimmed, it should climb on its own at full throttle
or require only a small amount of up elevator.

Use the elevator carefully! Unless you are going for a loop, use small
elevator inputs. Too much up elevator with the plane flying too slowly will
cause the nose to rise, the wing to stall and the nose to drop. Do this near
the ground and you crash.

Flight tips

Keep your control movement smooth and don't over do it. Turn before you need
to so you can give the plane time to react. This is called thinking ahead of
the plane. Plan you moves.

For three channel parkflyers that use rudder/elevator or two channels that
only have rudder, don't hold rudder commands for more than a couple of
seconds. On these planes, rudder commands will cause the plane to bank, or
tip over in the direction of the turn. That is good because that is how they
turn. However, if you hold the rudder too long, the
bank will continue to steepen to the point where the wing will lose lift and
you will go into a dive or spiral in for a crash.

Of course you read the whole manual several times and watched any videos that
might have come with the plane before you fly.

Clear Skies and Safe Flying!

AEAJR
11-19-2005, 12:38 PM
PS - I'm going to have my wife take some digital video of my first flights, so you will be able to see how your advice helps, and maybe have a laugh or two, hehehe.

Smaug,

How goes the flying? Have you spread your dragon wings yet?

Jeremy Z
11-19-2005, 06:34 PM
Ed, it's going OK, though I haven't flown much in the last couple weeks. It's just been too windy & cold (20F!!). Cold, I can deal with. But 15 mph winds + gusts up to 25 or so are just too much for my poor little T-Hawk. It's going to be a long winter...

Nevertheless, I tried flying this morning. It didn't look that windy... But when I got it up there, it was being tossed around like a feather. I was lucky to have a good landing, and go home with everything in one piece.

Oh, and her videos came out horribly. She's a great wife, but has no knack for videography.

I'm still awaiting delivery of my EdgeRC wings: an Overlord and a Pocket Combat Wing. In the meantime, I'm building my GWS Corsair (brushless ;) )and flying in FMS as much as possible.

I'm thinking that instead of another plane, the best bet might be to buy the Ikarus flight simulator. No wind or cold can keep me grounded then, and I have to admit, it seems a lot more realistic than FMS. (though that may be because I was able to use something that resembles a real transmitter more than a dual analog control pad. I'm not complaining though; it was cheap!)

Jeremy

AEAJR
11-19-2005, 09:19 PM
I use my regular radio with FMS. If you have one, you should get a cable to allow you to do that.

Quite a list of planes you have there.

With those kinds of wings, you need to look for slope soaring sites. T-hawks will sope nicely in 10-15 and maybe 20 mph winds. You might need to add some ballast.

I have sloped my aerobird challenger many times. Great fun!

Jeremy Z
11-20-2005, 04:47 AM
Well, you'll be happy to find out that I was able to get a few flights in with the ol' T-Hawk at dusk today. It was quite nice.

I don't have my real radio yet. It is on order with the wings. !@#$%

The throttle channel on the T-Hawk leaves a lot to be desired. It is more like a 4-speed than a true proportional throttle.

When I get the Optic 6, I'm going to look into USB cables to interface with FMS. (as I recall, there are sources in one of your beginner posts...) I just saw one on ebay for like $35, which seems like highway robbery.

I'm considering glueing some sort of sticks to the "mushroom" controls on my dual analog controller in the meantime.

Slope soaring is not bloody likely in my area. Any area that is not completely flat is that way because there are trees. I take that back, there's one sledding hill about a mile away that has taller trees on three sides, and a football field below the other. It's about 75 ft. high or something. If I do any soaring at all, it will have to be A) After I move somewhere with lumpier geography, or B) with a powered glider. (thinking of an Easy Glider Electric some day...)

starcad
11-20-2005, 06:59 PM
Ah, actually the elevator is not reversed. If you were sitting in a real plane then pulling back on the stick would give you up elevetor and pushing forward down elevetor. Your R/C transmitter is setup the same way pulling back on the stick is up and pushing forward down elevator.

I have only flown a plane once, and that was numerous years ago. I have ordered a slow stick and will be flying for the first time sometime next week. I have found the simulators a good start on grasping the concept of flight, from what I remember from years ago. You seem like you understand that the controls for the elevator are reversed, ie up goes down, down goes up. Some of the newer transmitters have a servo reverse switch that can make it so that when you hit the stick up, your plane goes up. Not the opposite. So if that is what is confusing you then just get a Tx that will allow you to swith the servos.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask, I will try to help, and I am sure the others will too! :D

AEAJR
11-20-2005, 08:26 PM
starcad,

good catch on that earlier post. Push for down and pull for up is correct for the elevator.

Jeremy Z
11-23-2005, 11:31 PM
One more question: I've got the basics down. I'm tuned in such that I don't get mixed up when the plane's coming at me.

However, I've just read the article in the latest Model Airplane News called How to Land Like a Pro. It says that once you've got the wings level and you're on final approach, one should control elevation with the throttle and speed with the elevator. Furthermore, it says that you should keep aligned with the runway using only the rudder, and that the ailerons are just used to keep the wings level at this point.

As I said earlier, I'm trained now to react correctly with my right hand for when the plane's coming at me. I'm having a hell of a time getting my left (rudder) hand trained in a similar fashion. I just practiced on FMS for a good while, and made no progress at all.

Do you all steer with the rudder or ailerons when you're landing?

Jeremy

AEAJR
11-29-2005, 02:56 AM
Of course it depends on the plane. Not all of my planes have ailerons.

Also, I don't land on a runway, so alignmnet is not as critical.

Having said that, on an aileron plane, for final approach, ailerons are to keep wings level and rudder is for steering.

timocharis
11-29-2005, 04:08 AM
Jeremy,

On a full-house airplane with landing gear and other such luxuries, one is well advised to do as the text said. I know from seeing photos that I do a sort of Tai Chi when I land, leaning and moving very slowly to get a rhythm.

Get on approach and in line, make sure your wings are level. You may have to crab a little with the rudder, but with practice you can hold that line and start easing the throttle off while giving a bit more up to hold level. This will alter the crab, and might very well require a little aileron correction too.

These things all happen at once, and frankly, making a clean landing on a true line is a wonderful and difficult thing unless circumstances are ideal. When I succeed, it's a great rush!

Alas, most of my planes don't have wheels, and my typical landing is to just pluck it from hover. Or, alternately, miss my catch and crash.


Dave

AEAJR
11-29-2005, 08:44 PM
One more question: I've got the basics down. I'm tuned in such that I don't get mixed up when the plane's coming at me.

However, I've just read the article in the latest Model Airplane News called How to Land Like a Pro. It says that once you've got the wings level and you're on final approach, one should control elevation with the throttle and speed with the elevator. Furthermore, it says that you should keep aligned with the runway using only the rudder, and that the ailerons are just used to keep the wings level at this point.

As I said earlier, I'm trained now to react correctly with my right hand for when the plane's coming at me. I'm having a hell of a time getting my left (rudder) hand trained in a similar fashion. I just practiced on FMS for a good while, and made no progress at all.

Do you all steer with the rudder or ailerons when you're landing?

Jeremy

To train your left hand, get the plane high and fly it arond using the rudder only. If there is some dihedral in the wings it will bank but it will be sluggish compared to the ailerons.

If the wing is flat you can yaw the plane around. You will be redirecting the thrust of the motor to make your turns. Weird but fun.

Do this enough and you will be able to switch back and forth with no problems.

And of course, that simulator can help too.

Jeremy Z
11-29-2005, 09:52 PM
Thanks Ed. It's so simple I hadn't thought of it.
I was trying to land, over & over, hehehe.

I'll try that on FMS tonight. I have access to all sorts of planes. None of my planes have both ailerons & rudder, so I should be jolly good at it by the time I need to do it.

Jeremy

AEAJR
11-29-2005, 10:23 PM
If none of your planes have rudder AND ailerons then you will NOT be doing what the instructions tell you to do. :confused:

Let's go back to basics.

Pitch
Roll
Yaw

On a plane with ailerons, they provide the roll.

On a plane with rudder only/dihedral in the wings, the rudder provides the roll by working with the wings. ;) You have no isolated Yaw control.

If there are no ailerons, then the rudder is roll, not yaw and should be on the right stick, if you are flying mode 2, the standard in North America, there should be throttle only on your left stick.

ONLY if you have ailerons AND rudder can you practice what your article tells you because only then can rudder be used for yaw alone. :confused:

Your landing instructions are REALLY saying that roll control is only used to level the wings during landing. Yaw control is used to allign the plane. The document you are reading ASSUMES a 4 Channel plane. If you don't have a 4 channel plane, you can not do what that document describes.

Jeremy Z
11-30-2005, 01:23 AM
If you don't have a 4 channel plane, you can not do what that document describes.

I do get what you're saying. But either way, I'm using the rudder to do the final landing. ;) I do understand how dihedral/rudder and ailerons work.

I can see it firsthand in FMS. On the Formosa, (or any other plane with no dihedral) rudder just yaws the plane. No bank. On the T-Hawk, it does a slight yaw at first, then the plane gently starts to bank afterwards.

Does the shape of the wing also have to do with the rudder causing a bank, or just whether it has dihedral or not? For example, would a plane with a symmetrical wing with dihedral bank with rudder input? Would a plane with flat-bottomed or undercambered wings but no dihedral bank with rudder input only?

From what I've read, it makes it sound like dihedral causes the rudder to cause bank, and symmetrical wings make it fly "symmetrically upside-down". But you don't generally see symmetrical or semi-symmetrical wing designs with dihedral. Also, most flat-bottomed wings have dihedral, so I wonder if these traits go hand-in-hand.

rocket_jim
12-06-2005, 12:08 AM
Let's go back to basics.

Pitch
Roll
Yaw

On a plane with ailerons, they provide the roll.

On a plane with rudder only/dihedral in the wings, the rudder provides the roll by working with the wings. ;) You have no isolated Yaw control.

If there are no ailerons, then the rudder is roll, not yaw and should be on the right stick, if you are flying mode 2, the standard in North America, there should be throttle only on your left stick.

ONLY if you have ailerons AND rudder can you practice what your article tells you because only then can rudder be used for yaw alone. :confused:

Your landing instructions are REALLY saying that roll control is only used to level the wings during landing. Yaw control is used to allign the plane. The document you are reading ASSUMES a 4 Channel plane. If you don't have a 4 channel plane, you can not do what that document describes.

I've been flying a 2-channel HZ FB Commander II. Throttle on left stick and rudder on right stick. No idea what mode that might be called.

I have in the works two different new to me planes, one in two different configurations, and I am confused how best to set up and fly them so I don't get confused when switching from plane to plane and back.

1) The Slow Stick will be 3-channel, so I would assume throttle on left stick and rudder and elevator on the right stick. A friend let me fly his that is set up this way and it made sense at the time.

2A) The BeginAir with the Wing Dragon wing will be 3-channel, suggesting the same setup as for 1).

2B) BUT when I put the real BeginAir wing on it with ailerons, then it will be 4 channel, suggesting use Mode II. Going from 1) or 2A) to 2B) means suddenly moving the rudder from the right stick to the left. This seems like it would be very confusing, to say the least.

Any suggestions how to set up and fly these 3 to avoid confusion?

Sky Sharkster
12-06-2005, 02:31 AM
To Jim, first let me post the 4 standard R/C aircraft modes;
MODE 1 Left stick, Vertical-Elevator
Horizontal-Rudder
Right Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Aileron
MODE 2 Left Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Rudder
Right Stick, Vertical-Elevator
Horizontal-Aileron
Mode 3 Left Stick, Vertical-elevator
Horizontal-Aileron
Right Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Rudder
Mode 4 Left Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Aileron
Right Stick, Vertical-Elevator
Horizontal-Rudder
So there's many ways you can set your model up. If you're used to the rudder and elevator on the right stick, leave'em there. Put the ailerons on the left stick until you're used to using them. There's no law that says you HAVE to use Mode 2, Mode 4 is fine. It really all depends on what you're comfortable with and what port you plug the servos into. Receivers made for the U.S. market are commonly marked for Mode 2 but that's only a suggestion. Set it up the way YOU want to control the plane! Good luck! Ron

timocharis
12-06-2005, 04:59 AM
Jeremy:

Complicated question.

First, shape of the wing does have bearing on "dihedral," but in more ways maybe than you suspect. But before we dig into that too hard, if you look around you'll notice war birds with semi-symmetrical wings and dihedral ... but they're usually low wing planes! The dihedral is not to make them into rudder-onlies, but to offset the instability of the low wing (not necessarily a problem -- a well designed low flat wing plane need not be unduly unstable).

Further, strictly speaking dihedral is not necessary for self-correcting and/or rudder maneuvering. A high wing will do that, even if straight, and even if symmetrical. But not enough to make a trainee happy.

Another interesting tidbit: a swept wing (such as a delta) will act as if it has some dihedral (but again, not as much).

All these things work together, but not all are required at all times. For example, the Stevens DiddleRod is a mid-wing design with severe undercamber and strong dihedral. It's very stable and flies only with rudder and elevator, and works great!

The short version is: wing shape, wing position and dihedral can all create a roll effect using just the rudder. Another factor: fuselage side area. On a high wing plane, the fuse side area will also create a roll effect.

Okay, enough already.


Dave

sawadee
12-13-2005, 03:13 PM
One thing I learned was When the plane is COMING TOWARD you always "FLY TO THE LOW WING". If you try to think left and right close to the ground you will usually crash. If the LEFT wing starts to drop, move the stick to the LEFT. If the RIGHT wing starts to drop move tne stick to the RIGHT. This will get your wing back to level without thinking about left or right whick are reversed when the plane is COMING TOWARD you.

sawadee

rca
01-20-2006, 05:02 PM
The information Ed posted earlier in this thread with links to all his explanations looks like exactly what I need as a noob to electric flight and RC airplanes. It appears however that the website www.rcezine.com is no longer available. Does anybody know if these articles can be found anywhere else?

Also, if you have a favorite book you can point me to that would help explain the basics of RC Airplanes, terminology and theory I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to educate myself to this hobby.

timocharis
01-20-2006, 06:34 PM
Start to finish, this book will do the job:

http://www.stevensaero.com/shop/product.php?productid=16645&cat=262&page=1


Dave

shortfellow
01-20-2006, 09:50 PM
Crosswind landings with a 4 channel plane.
I read some pretty wild stuff about crosswind landings in this forum. Well unless you have 4 channels just don’t do it.It’s that simple.Land upwind. With 4 channels it isn’t easy but it can be perfected. This will take practice.
What you have to know.
The ailerons cause the airplane to bank.So moving the stick left causes the plane to bank left. That causes the plane to slip to the left.Initially the nose will yaw to the right a small amount. Then it will follow around to the left thereby starting a left turn.So to keep this awkward event from happening we use left rudder at the start of the turn to keep the nose from yawing to the right and we can produce a coordinated turn. What does this have to do with landing crosswind? Nothing!
It explains what the ailerons and the rudder really do.Now here’s how a 4 channel plane makes a nice crosswind landing.
What you have to do.
You’re flying comfortably above the stall speed.While you’re still high enough to have time to make these adjustments line the plane up with the runway.Keep it over the center of the runway
WITH THE AILERONS. Keep it pointed straight down the runway WITH THE RUDDER.This is called cross controlling.Let’s say the wind is comming from the right. The stick will be leaned to the right.(into the wind) Causing the plane to bank and slip to the right.But after it yaws left a bit it will want to turn to the right so to keep it from turning right you apply enough left rudder to keep it pointed straignt down the runway.Now the plane is banked to the right but left rudder is keeping it from turning. By continuing to cross control untill touchdown you can reduce speed, flair, even stall, and a perfect touchdown is possible. I hope this is of some help.
Shortfellow

TManiaci
01-20-2006, 11:46 PM
Some of you guys have WAY too much time on your hands. Go put on a coat, and fly! These posts are monsterous... and I thought I was bad :rolleyes:

Jeremy Z
01-21-2006, 08:41 AM
Some of you guys have WAY too much time on your hands. Go put on a coat, and fly! These posts are monsterous... and I thought I was bad :rolleyes:

That was shortfellow's first post to the forum, and HE'S criticized as having too much time? One could argue that HE is not the one with too much time, hehehe.

Also, it is quite commendable that he would try to actually help someone with his first post. Perhaps he noticed that this thread is sticky, and figured it would be worth the time, since it would stay for newbies to see and learn from.

As for myself, TManiaci, I plan to get my coat on and go fly in the snow as soon as it's light out. TwinStar II + Rise Off Snow = FUN.

I don't consider myself a newbie any more, thanks to threads like this.

Cheers!

shortfellow
01-22-2006, 03:46 AM
Thanks jeremy Z. I had no idea that someone would resent my posting.

Don Sims
01-22-2006, 03:05 PM
I think he was just teasing, so don't sweat it gents!! Welcome to the site shortfellow!!

stah
03-17-2006, 06:35 PM
A small comment:

If you're a total noob pick the mode everybody in your club uses: That way when you get help & instruction they will be used to your Tx setup.

Just my 2c...

:rolleyes:


To Jim, first let me post the 4 standard R/C aircraft modes;
MODE 1 Left stick, Vertical-Elevator
Horizontal-Rudder
Right Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Aileron
MODE 2 Left Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Rudder
Right Stick, Vertical-Elevator
Horizontal-Aileron
Mode 3 Left Stick, Vertical-elevator
Horizontal-Aileron
Right Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Rudder
Mode 4 Left Stick, Vertical-Throttle
Horizontal-Aileron
Right Stick, Vertical-Elevator
Horizontal-Rudder
So there's many ways you can set your model up. If you're used to the rudder and elevator on the right stick, leave'em there. Put the ailerons on the left stick until you're used to using them. There's no law that says you HAVE to use Mode 2, Mode 4 is fine. It really all depends on what you're comfortable with and what port you plug the servos into. Receivers made for the U.S. market are commonly marked for Mode 2 but that's only a suggestion. Set it up the way YOU want to control the plane! Good luck! Ron

Bill G
06-11-2006, 06:29 PM
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/misc/navbits_finallink.gif (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1777&page=2) How do I fly, exactly?

I don't use the exactly method, I Just Fly.

The best advice is to forget about down elevator at first. With a properly set up plane, you should not need it, and it just confuses the issue. Its easier to remember the one direction you will need, UP. As you gain experience and want to dive and loop, the down direction will come naturally.

thomdoe
06-11-2006, 10:41 PM
Bill G, DOWN is the one I always hit FIRST. Keith

Bill G
06-12-2006, 04:53 AM
Bill G, DOWN is the one I always hit FIRST. Keith

Must be ROG. I hand launched everything.

Hitting down immediately after launch has wonderful results. This can regularly be seen when the elevator channel is accidentally reversed.:eek:
BTDT

thomdoe
06-12-2006, 06:18 PM
Always A Hit

Slowdoc
08-17-2006, 12:22 AM
Ed: I just signed up today and read your discussion. I have a dumb question.
You say always keep the plane upwind from you. I take it upwind means wind in your face? I understand you take off and land into wind but how can you fly upwind and not turn to fly with the wind? Still confused??

Solid Hit
08-17-2006, 01:58 AM
I think he means he wants you to fly with the wind in your face. Of course you will have to fly it down wind but you will want to keep it in front of you.

The only exception will be on final when you will fly it down wind from where you are standing and bring it back up.

stevecooper
09-16-2006, 05:54 PM
Heres how I get the kid's in my club MULLETS MAURDERS ( mostly 5-13 year old nab'erhood young'ins) to get past the dreaded "revevse control fly'in back prob" is to push control stick toward the dipp'in wing, even the youngist seem to "get it" almost right away! It's a trick I've used for years teach'in folks sail'in boats wing-on-wing (dead down wind) where one points the tiller at the flapp'in sail, It seem to help folks from hav'in to take the time to think ( which way was it soppose to go???) works for grown-ups too!!!!!your bub, steve

Broken Balsa
09-30-2006, 12:24 AM
I started flying r/c models in 1961 or 62. In all those years I have only seen one person pick up a transmitter and fly a plane cold turkey and he designed the Lance Air. I still cannot believe he did it. Please listen to the gentlemen who tell you to get help from an instructor. That person with a buddy box will make the hobby enjoyable and most likely a life long love affair. Many people have tried it on thier own only to fail and throw the remains in the trash can or in a back room at home to be forgotten. This is not whats its all about. You would have to live in a very remote area not to have a flying club with in driving distance. These folks are in it usually for the long hawl and like all who love thier hobby cannot wait to pass it on to some one else. Go there, ask questions and you will be supprised at the response you will get. Just like on this forum there will be those there who cannot wait to help you learn the right way and you will enjoy the hobby the rest of your life. I did and I still do...Ron

fezz
02-25-2007, 04:31 PM
here is a tip i picked up recently at my club field.

i've been flying my SC for a couple of months and flying it well. i've always controlled the right stick with my thumb. i was smooth on the inputs but the flight of the plane was always "notchy."

well, i was told to grab the stick with thumb and forefinger - and it has made all the difference. real small moves and much finer control of the plane. the flight notchiness is gone and the plane is moving smoothly through the air. if you aren't flying like this - give it a try.

airmail wf
02-25-2007, 07:11 PM
I started flying r/c models in 1961 or 62. In all those years I have only seen one person pick up a transmitter and fly a plane cold turkey and he designed the Lance Air. I still cannot believe he did it. Please listen to the gentlemen who tell you to get help from an instructor. That person with a buddy box will make the hobby enjoyable and most likely a life long love affair. Many people have tried it on thier own only to fail and throw the remains in the trash can or in a back room at home to be forgotten. This is not whats its all about. You would have to live in a very remote area not to have a flying club with in driving distance. These folks are in it usually for the long hawl and like all who love thier hobby cannot wait to pass it on to some one else. Go there, ask questions and you will be supprised at the response you will get. Just like on this forum there will be those there who cannot wait to help you learn the right way and you will enjoy the hobby the rest of your life. I did and I still do...Ron

Ron I'll bet you a dollar to a donut that guy knew how to fly RC before he picked up that TX. ;) :D

shortfellow
02-26-2007, 09:46 PM
Fezz, you are to be commended for your wonderful contribution. I remember the difficulty I had controlling my trainer on take-off. It would zigzag from one side of the runway to the other. One day I was watching one of our best pilots and noticed that he had a thumb and forefinger on each stick. I guess you know I tried it and what a difference it made.
This site could use more contributions like yours Fezz.

markind
02-26-2007, 11:57 PM
Ron I'll bet you a dollar to a donut that guy knew how to fly RC before he picked up that TX. ;) :D

Maybe not!

I am total nOOB and I put together my first 4 channel plane with ailerons, rudder, elevator and throttle just recently.

I had perfect success on my first maiden flight - reasons include spending MANY hours on the simulator FIRST, and making sure the plane was balanced and had correct CG placement.

Also, I had a old-timer pro look over my new plane and he made sure the linkages and control throws were all good.

I was nervous at first, but the plane really did behave like the simulator, and I had already mastered the art of near-perfect landings. My very first two flights were flawless (the first was a bit rough at first but then turned dreamy after a little trim setting).

The old-timers around me when I accomplished this could not believe it! :D

fezz
02-27-2007, 03:17 AM
thanks, i'll try to make my comments worthwile.

i've always been the kind of learner that only had to be told once. ;)

stevecooper
02-27-2007, 05:10 AM
fezz:: I have bubs that fly that way and they swear by it, After read'in your post I tried it and it was kinda fun, Been fly'in rc an C<L< for over 40 years and this old dog liked your new trick, your bub, steve

fezz
02-28-2007, 01:51 AM
fezz:: I have bubs that fly that way and they swear by it, After read'in your post I tried it and it was kinda fun, Been fly'in rc an C<L< for over 40 years and this old dog liked your new trick, your bub, steve

awesome.

Airhead
02-28-2007, 04:58 AM
Thanks Fezz for the tip. I'm a pretty new RC pilot and appreciate all the suggestions that I have gotten here at Wattflyer.
When I go to the field I'm usually alone (actually, I'm always alone) so its like I always fly with my friends here at WF...:)

stevecooper
02-28-2007, 02:52 PM
airhead:: I fly alone alot and it sucks sometimes ( sometimes it's great) I started a kids RC club a dozon years or so back an have had over 40 kids from the area ( 99%, underprivledged,) and what a bunch fun they are , two of my little bub's dads were in my club when they were kids! back on the subject, Always go nose heavy on the C.G. when teach'in kids as they pull out better than they recover from stall'in and it's better for them to land fast than upside-downzee, I go'in to try out thumb'in- forefinger control out on some of the kids this weekend, which around here shall for ever be dubbed after my bub FEZZ as FEZZ CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! your bub steve

fezz
02-28-2007, 05:50 PM
FEZZ CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i certainly cant take any of the credit for myself - just passing along what I thought was a pretty good technique. But, I am flattered by the whole thing. :D

Air Trucker
03-06-2007, 01:07 AM
The real flight Simulator Is what I used, it come with Control box like the one you will use in real flight. I did a few hours on it and solo the week last on first flight with a slow st. Built an easy star last friday and flew it sunday for several hours. No crashes no broken part. I think the real flight was the real reason I did well. With A lot of help from crash9. The first flight he got the plane air bore and handed over to me. Went great. Like some of others have written. Go and find a local r/c field and ask, maybe some one will take you under there wing, MM

mtdoramike
03-14-2007, 11:15 PM
I agree, WOW I feel like I can almost fly the Superstar EP after reading Ed's response. BUT, I have to agree with everyone, get a flight simm or a local trainer to help you out. Take it from someone who KNOWS. I too take my first maiden flight with the Superstar EP and lets just say it was a disaster. I was in an open field of about 10-15 acres ate least and thought it was plenty of room. WRONG, I hand launched the Superstar for a fellow I had met who had a little more experience then I did, but not much more. The Superstar climbed and was flying very well, Ted handed the controls over to me and told me to bring it back over the field and try a landing approach. BIG MISTAKE, I gave it a little left rudder bump and the Superstar went straight into the ground from about 40 feet up before Ted could grab the controls from me.

Needless to say, I didn't have an experienced trainer nor had I played on a simm either. The Superstar was in pieces, well at least from the wing forward was snapped off. It crashed inside a fenced in business that sells luxory motor homes and all I could think of while driving over there was, GOD I hope I didn't hit anyone or anything other then the ground. The plane was not important at that moment. But fortunately it crashed in some weeds next to the fence. This was last Monday a week ago. I have just rebuilt the entire nose section of the plane and awaiting the monokote to finish it. A fellow forum member sent me a new motor since the shaft of mine got bent in the crash.

I since have joined AMA and in the process of joining a club where they have trainers and trainer planes as well as buddy boxes.

I attached some before and after pics of the Superstar.






Wow Ed, I'm humbled by that response. Thanks a lot. I'm going to start a Word file to put all these great tips in, for later use. Or print them, or both.

I downloaded the FMS program & installed it on my computer. I need to look into how to control it. My 27 MHz radio doesn't have have jack for a buddy cord, so I hope I can get some other type of controller... The program itself looks great, and I have downloaded the T-Hawk model for it.

I've signed up for AMA (the trial deal for $20 for three months) and contacted local club members through AMAs table of local flyers. (though much of the stuff is out of date...)

Thanks a lot for the tips everyone. Maybe this is a candidate for a thread that should be archived or made sticky in this forum? That way, the experienced flyers could put their heart into it, and not worry that some newb will come along every week asking the same question.

Jeremy

olbinder67
03-20-2007, 08:16 AM
I just flew my Hobbyzone Commander 2 for the first time today and I really like it, I had a couple of hard landings but no damage thank goodness.

Does any have any suggestion to make my plane more visible? I made the mistake of flying it between me and the sun and lost sight of it completly!!!! I thought it was a gonner but a nice sagebrush caught it for me. I will make sure not to do that again, but everyone says that altitude is your friend, it would be nice to have something easy to see when its way up there.

I can see where the tail might be a weak spot, has anyone tried the replacement tails on sale at Ebay? They are black or blue and are supposed to be very durable, and due to a larger flap make your plane more responsive, They are supposed to make it easier to fly in wind too.

Any thoughts or comments to a new guy regarding the Commander 2 would be much appreciated.

Thanks

kuzikood
03-21-2007, 10:24 PM
one word of advice about the t-hawk ...for a complete green person it will be very fast but is a great flying bird and once you learn to thermal you can easily keep it up in the air this spring for 30 mins or so at a time...i know my neck started hurting long before the battery went down but trust me its a great plane

arniep
07-08-2007, 02:49 AM
I have read some threads that advise to reduce the throws of servos in order to make the controls less sensitive.
The question is, which way do I move the control rod on the servo arm and/or control horn to reduce the throws?
I am a complete newbie to this and hope somebody can give this basic info. Thanks in advance!

brnyrbbl
07-08-2007, 02:58 AM
Move them in on the servo horn or out on the clevis/control horn end. It shortens the arc resulting in less throw.

arniep
07-08-2007, 03:30 AM
Thanks for the quick reply. I thought that was the case for the servo arm, but was not sure about the other end of things. Thanks for clearing that up. Now....to the bench to make the adjustments.

RacerPaul
07-08-2007, 03:37 AM
airhead:: I fly alone alot and it sucks sometimes ( sometimes it's great) I started a kids RC club a dozon years or so back an have had over 40 kids from the area ( 99%, underprivledged,) and what a bunch fun they are , two of my little bub's dads were in my club when they were kids! back on the subject, Always go nose heavy on the C.G. when teach'in kids as they pull out better than they recover from stall'in and it's better for them to land fast than upside-downzee, I go'in to try out thumb'in- forefinger control out on some of the kids this weekend, which around here shall for ever be dubbed after my bub FEZZ as FEZZ CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! your bub steve
Steve,

You're a good bub!

Paul

Sam_K
07-08-2007, 12:23 PM
I started flying r/c models in 1961 or 62. In all those years I have only seen one person pick up a transmitter and fly a plane cold turkey and he designed the Lance Air. I still cannot believe he did it. Please listen to the gentlemen who tell you to get help from an instructor. That person with a buddy box will make the hobby enjoyable and most likely a life long love affair. Many people have tried it on thier own only to fail and throw the remains in the trash can or in a back room at home to be forgotten. This is not whats its all about. You would have to live in a very remote area not to have a flying club with in driving distance. These folks are in it usually for the long hawl and like all who love thier hobby cannot wait to pass it on to some one else. Go there, ask questions and you will be supprised at the response you will get. Just like on this forum there will be those there who cannot wait to help you learn the right way and you will enjoy the hobby the rest of your life. I did and I still do...Ron

While I certainly appreciate that this is good advice, it is not the only way. I am well on my way to being a confident RC flyer and I have never had any 1 on 1 instruction from another RC flyer. (EDIT: And I have not destroyed any planes yet either)

I have recently just started in RC and I don't personally know anyone else who is into it and I don't beloing to a club. I have a Silverlit X-Twin (Air Hogs Aero Ace) that I have done about 20 hours of stick time on, but I quickly outgrew it and yearned for a real RC plane.

While I planned my big purchase I flew somewhere between 5 and 10 hours on the FMS simulator using a PC Joystick.

I then bought a Multiplex Easy Star and a Spektrum DX7. The first time I threw that plane in the air was the first time I had ever used a real TX (I hadn't got the sim cable for the DX7 at that stage). I guess the time spent on the X-Twin and FMS with the PC Joystick must count for something as I flew for half an hour on my maiden flight without crashing and 1 of the three landings I did on that day was smooth as silk. (The other two were a bit rough but were not crashes)

To this day I have a total of 3hrs and 40 minutes flight time on the Easy Star (I log all my flights) and in that time I have had only 2 rough landings (touched the wing tip and cartwheeled) and only 1 real crash on a final approach when flying in way too much wind. (Sudden gust of wind pushed the nose down as I was flying low over some trees, I panicked, overcorrected, stalled into a wing over and hit a tree)

For me, my path to confident piloting has been as follows.

Step 1: Buy an Air Hogs Aero Ace / Silverlit X-Twin and fly (and crash) the crap out of it. This is how I bedded down the ability to fly towards myself without getting disoriented. These things are dirt cheap and virtually unbreakable, there is no reason not to do this, besides they are a lot of fun!

Step 2: Read EVERYTHING you can find on the Internet about flying RC planes. I spent over 2 months doing this before I finally had my own plane to fly and I learnt A LOT in that time. It's a good way to kill time while you are planning and saving for your purchase.

Step 3: Practice with a simulator such as FMS. Obviously using your real TX is the best but using a PC joystick or even the keyboard is still wothwhile! Find a beginners model and practice flying towards youself and landing (both at once). Do this again and again until you can do it easily without any frustration.

Step 4: Buy a plane that is built for beginners, is easy to fly and can bounce back easily from a crash. This is the most critical step and will ultimately determine your success or failure. The Parkzone Supercub and Multiplex Easy Star are both well regarded as rugged beginners planes.

Step 5: For your first few flights, find the biggest, flattest, most treeless possible area you can find. I would say a minimum of 4 sports fields square and that is not an exaggeration. Also, just as important, don't fly if it's even slightly windy!

That's about it, the rest is up to you. If you practice with a beginners model in FMS you will know wether or not you are ready to fly your real plane. If FMS is frustrating to fly, then you are not ready. Can't land the plane reliably in FMS? You won't be able to do it in real life either. When you are cruising around comfortably in FMS and can land several times in a row without problems then you are ready to take a shot at the real thing.

Stan-the-Man
12-07-2007, 02:17 AM
Without an instructor, you should buy about 5-10 airplanes. You will go through them quickly!

There are likely 10k+ RCers in Chicagoland. Go to a local field and get some help! Ask someone here......get HELP!

If you just can't do that....spend hours on a sim. They help a great deal.

Good thought about the using a simulator...

Another, thought, too, if you don't mind... I agree about having to buy the planes...

If you don't have a trainer, or can't find one, and decide to make a purchase of a good plane to start with... I have bought one HobbyZone Super Cub to my two Firebird Phantoms and four Aerobird 3's. The Super Cub has my beginner vote. It may cost a little more, but in my case, it has outlasted all the others, and out performed them, to boot. For a readily available RTF (Ready to Fly) model for starters or returnees, all I can say is "It has worked for me". :tc: My first one is still flying with a chipped left wing, cracked engine cowling, tilting rear rudder, and missing wing struts... and a pilot that may be 100 yards short of the runway. :rolleyes:

Stan-the-Man
12-07-2007, 09:04 PM
Whether you have a coach or you are trying to learn to fly on your own, you
will need to be mindful of these six areas if you are going to become a
successful RC pilot. After two years of working with new flyers at our club,
and coaching flyers on the forums, there are a few things I have seen as the
key areas to stress for new pilots. Some get it right away and some have to
work at it. They are in no particular order because they all have to be
learned to be successful.

WIND
Orientation
Speed
Altitude
Over Control
Preflight Check

1) Wind - The single biggest cause of crashes that I have observed has been
the
insistence upon flying in too much wind. If you are under an instructor's
control or on a buddy box, then follow their advice, but if you are starting
out and tying to learn on your own, regardless of the model, I recommend dead
calm to 3 MPH for the slow stick and tiger moth type planes. Under 5 MPH for
all others. That includes gusts. An experienced pilot can handle more. It
is the pilot, more than the plane, that determines how much wind can be
handled.

The wind was around 10 mph steady with gusts to 12. That was strong enough
that some of the experienced pilots flying three and four channel small
electric planes chose not to launch their electrics. This new flyer insisted
that he wanted to try his two and three channel parkflyers. Crash, Crash,
Crash - Three planes in pieces. He just would not listen. Sometimes you just
have to let them crash. There is no other way to get them to understand.

Many parkflyers can be flown in higher winds by AN EXPERIENCED PILOT. I
have flown my Aerobird in 18 mph wind (clocked speed) but it is quite exciting
trying to land it.

Always keep the plane up wind from you. There is no reason for a new flyer to
have the plane downwind EVER!


2) Orientation - Knowing the orientation of your plane is a real challenge,
even for experienced pilots. You just have to work at it and some adults have
a real problem with left and right regardless of which way the plane is going.
Licensed pilots have a lot of trouble with this one as they are accustomed to
being in the plane.

Here are two suggestions on how to work on orientation when you are not
flying.

Use a flight simulator on your PC. Pick a slow flying model and fly it a lot.
Forget the jets and fast planes. Pick a slow one. Focus on left and right
coming at you. Keep the plane in front of you. Don't let it fly over your
head.

FMS is a free flight simulator. It is not the best flight sim, but the price
is right and it works. There are also other free and commercial simulators.

FMS Flight simulator Home Page
Free download
http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html (http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html)

Parkflyers for FMS
http://gunnerson.homestead.com/files/fms_models.htm (http://gunnerson.homestead.com/files/fms_models.htm)

The links below take you to sites that provide cables that work with FMS. If
your radio has a trainer port, these cables allow you to use the trainer port
on your radio to "fly" the
simulator. This is an excellent training approach.

http://www.allthingsrc.com/webshop/ (http://www.allthingsrc.com/webshop/)
http://www.simblaster.com/ (http://www.simblaster.com/)
http://www.customelectronics.co.uk/ (http://www.customelectronics.co.uk/)

An alternative is to try an RC car that has proportional steering. You don't
have to worry about lift, stall and wind. Get something with left and right
steering and speed control. Set up an easy course that goes toward and away
from you with lots of turns. Do it very slowly at first until you can make
the turns easily. Then build speed over time. You'll get it! If it has
sticks rather than a steering wheel even better, but not required. Oh, and
little cars are fun too.


3) Too much speed - Speed it the enemy of the new pilot but if you fly too
slowly the wings can't generate enough lift, so there is a compromise here.
The key message is that you don't have to fly at full throttle all the time.
Most small electrics fly very nicely at 2/3 throttle and some do quite well at
1/2. That is a much better training speed than full power. Launch at full
power and climb to a good height, say 100 feet as a minimum, so you have time
to recover from a mistake. At 100 feet, about double the height of the trees
where I live, go to half throttle and see how the plane handles. If it holds
altitude on a straight line, this is a good speed. Now work on slow and easy
turns, work on left and right, flying toward you and maintaining altitude.
Add a little throttle if the plane can't hold altitude.


4) Not enough altitude - New flyers are often afraid of altitude. They feel
safer close to the ground. Nothing could be more wrong.

Altitude is your friend. Altitude is your safety margin. It gives you a
chance to fix a mistake. If you are flying low and you make a mistake ....
CRUNCH!

As stated above I consider 100 feet, about double tree height where I live, as
a good flying height and I usually fly much higher than this. I advise my new
flyers that fifty feet, is minimum flying height. Below that you better be
lining up for landing.


5) Over control - Most of the time the plane does not need input from you.
Once you get to height, a properly trimmed plane flying in calm air will
maintain its height and direction with no help from you. In fact anything you
do will interfere with the plane.

When teaching new pilots I often do a demo flight of their plane. I get the
plane to 100 feet, then bring the throttle back to a nice cursing speed. I
get it going straight, with plenty of space in front of it, then take my hand
off the sticks and hold the radio out to the left with my arms spread wide to
emphasize that I am doing nothing. I let the plane go wherever it wants to
go, as long as it is holding altitude, staying upwind and has enough room. If
you are flying a high wing trainer and you can't do this, your plane is out of
trim.

Even in a mild breeze with some gusts, once you reach flying height, you
should be able to take your hand off the stick. Oh the plane will move around
and the breeze might push it into a turn, but it should continue to fly with
no help from you.

Along this same line of thinking, don't hold your turns for more than a couple
of seconds after the plane starts to turn. Understand that the plane turns by
banking or tilting its wings. If you hold a turn too long you will force the
plane to deepen this bank and it will eventually lose lift and go into a
spiral dive and crash. Give your inputs slowly and gently and watch the
plane. Start your turn then let off then turn some more and let off. Start
your turns long before you need to and you won't need to make sharp turns.

I just watch these guys hold the turn, hold the turn, hold the turn, crash.
Of course they are flying in 10 mph wind, near the ground, coming toward
themselves at full throttle.

6) Preflight check - Before every flight it is the pilot's responsibility to
confirm that the plane, the controls and the conditions are correct and
acceptable for flight.

Plane - Batteries at proper power
Surfaces properly aligned
No damage or breakage on the plane
Everything secure

Radio - Frequency control has been met before you turn on the radio
A full range check before the first flight of the day
All trims and switches in the proper position for this plane
Battery condition is good
Antenna fully extended
For computer radios - proper model is displayed
All surfaces move in the proper direction

Conditions - No one on the field or in any way at risk from your fight
You are launching into the wind
Wind strength is acceptable ( see wind above )
Sunglasses and a hat to protect your eyes
All other area conditions are acceptable.

Then and only then can you consider yourself, your plane, radio and the
conditions right for flight. Based on your plane, your radio and local
conditions you may need to add or change something here, but this is the bare
minimum. It only takes a couple of minutes at the beginning of the flying
day and only a few seconds to perform before each flight.

If this all seems like too much to remember, do what professional pilots do,
take along a preflight check list. Before every flight they go down
the check list, perform the tests, in sequence, and confirm that all is right.
If you want your flying experience to be a positive one, you should do the
same. After a short time, it all becomes automatic and just a natural part of
a fun and rewarding day.

I hope some of this is useful in learning to fly your plane.


I left this quote in it's entirety so beginners will have a better chance to wander upon it. Good stuff.

You even explained away my crash two nights ago with my AB3... holding the plane in a wide turn with a good head breeze. She dove into the ground beautifully, and didn't bat an eyelash! Darn, how I wanted to blame the plane!

Sincere thanks. Of course, I learned the hard way a little late, but it's nice to know why. :red:

Stan-the-Man
12-14-2007, 10:01 AM
How Do I Fly, Exactly?

I find a tall cliff, extend my arms, and have AEAJR, Coop, Monk, Elfi, or various other volunteers give a push... into the wind, of course.

The answer: "Not well." I need new batteries, Monk's bananas, and one of Coop's famous paint jobs.

Sorry, trying to fly with dead batteries for the second time this week, I'm in that kind of mood this evening. Grrrrrrr. And it's all the plane's fault!!!!

CrashKing
12-16-2007, 06:17 AM
Hi guys, I'm new here and a rank beginner at R/C flying. I flew control-line and dabbled in free-flight back when R/C meant rudder-only and rubberband escapements for the non-wealthy, digital proportional was in it's infancy, and no-one had yet succeeded in flying an R/C helicopter. I got interested in R/C a couple of years ago and now have an Easy Star which I can barely manage to keep from crashing on a good day. I have several hundred hours of flight time in "real" airplanes, a commercial pilot license, instrument and multi-engine ratings, and flight instructor certification, and I don't think any of that does a bit of good when it comes to flying R/C. It's just a totally different thing, like typing and playing the piano: you use your fingers for both but that's about the only similarity. I definitely believe that a beginner should start out with a slow and stable plane that basically flys itself once trimmed correctly and only needs minor control inputs for altitude and directional changes. I'm sure there are people with fast reflexes and great hand-eye coordination who can learn on a ducted fan flying wing model. Student pilots have been known to buy Bonanzas and Mooneys and even twins and get their private pilot licenses in them, too, but it's not the best way. Dealing with retractable gear and cowl flaps and controllable pitch props and a panel jammed with avionics can be very distracting when you are trying to learn basic aircraft control. I'm dreaming about that 1/10th scale B-58 with 4 ducted fans and 8 channels, but meanwhile I'm having lots of fun with my Easy Star (and I could install a big brushless motor and clip the wings if I get bored....).

Grasshopper
12-16-2007, 06:22 AM
Very insightful post Crashking,

I'd love to see an RC B-58 Hustler. I built a plastic model version of it when I was a kid. You rarely ever see them.

Stan-the-Man
12-16-2007, 07:56 AM
Hi guys, I'm new here and a rank beginner at R/C flying. I flew control-line and dabbled in free-flight back when R/C meant rudder-only and rubberband escapements for the non-wealthy, digital proportional was in it's infancy, and no-one had yet succeeded in flying an R/C helicopter. I got interested in R/C a couple of years ago and now have an Easy Star which I can barely manage to keep from crashing on a good day. I have several hundred hours of flight time in "real" airplanes, a commercial pilot license, instrument and multi-engine ratings, and flight instructor certification, and I don't think any of that does a bit of good when it comes to flying R/C. It's just a totally different thing, like typing and playing the piano: you use your fingers for both but that's about the only similarity. I definitely believe that a beginner should start out with a slow and stable plane that basically flys itself once trimmed correctly and only needs minor control inputs for altitude and directional changes. I'm sure there are people with fast reflexes and great hand-eye coordination who can learn on a ducted fan flying wing model. Student pilots have been known to buy Bonanzas and Mooneys and even twins and get their private pilot licenses in them, too, but it's not the best way. Dealing with retractable gear and cowl flaps and controllable pitch props and a panel jammed with avionics can be very distracting when you are trying to learn basic aircraft control. I'm dreaming about that 1/10th scale B-58 with 4 ducted fans and 8 channels, but meanwhile I'm having lots of fun with my Easy Star (and I could install a big brushless motor and clip the wings if I get bored....).

*******************************
We're glad you're here. Welcome to Wattflyers... We hope you brought along a good sense of humor... It helps us cope with our techniques, or lack of them. :D

If you're looking for a good plane to get accustomed to RC, and enjoy more relaxed flying with less need for fast reflexes, many of us recommend the HobbyZone Super Cub for stability, control, size, and plain fun. (pun intended) It's available at HobbyZone for about $159.00, sometimes offering a spare battery, plus shipping, or www.diversionhobbies.com for about $120.00 delivered, no spare battery, and shipping may vary per state. (I'm not in sales or receiving any reimbursement, it's just the latter will not be undersold.)

If you're into ailerons, many opinions will vary. The PZ T-28 is currently a good seller as an RTF (Ready-to-Fly) model. For advice, just ask our group and you will receive many views and much knowledge on many topics.

You seem to have an extensive aeronautical background which should prove interesting to us, as well. :)

If we can be of any assistance, we have bands of merry men and women ready to pounce at a moments notice.

Have a great time. That's why we're here. ;)

CrashKing
12-16-2007, 04:02 PM
Thanks for the advice, Stan and Grasshopper. I did consider a J-3 Cub, but read somewhere that the Easy Star was probably the best trainer for a beginner (and less likely to break props on hard "landings"). I actually bought a Beech Staggerwing almost-scale model first, because it looked cool (and was cheap). I imagined that my flying experience would enable me to bypass the usual learning phase and just go out and do a ground takeoff followed by a vertical 8 point roll, then some inverted flight, etc. Well, the first flight did have vertical and inverted components to it, but not quite the way I imagined::o. Are short-coupled biplanes with stubby wings, no dihedral and no ailerons really flyable? If your 8 year old neighbor with no experience flew one of these things perfectly the first time, I'd rather not hear about it. LOL! One of the biggest problems I'm having is getting used to the twin stick transmitter controls. This is just completely weird and un-natural to me after flying full-size airplanes. I still have to think about which stick controls what???? I'd buy one of those cheap 3 channel single stick transmitter systems, but then I'd have to learn the twin stick thing anyway if I decided to upgrade to better equipment and more channels later. Like every hobby I've ever taken up, there's much more to this R/C flying than meets the eye.

stevecooper
12-16-2007, 04:12 PM
bubStan::www.diversionhobbies.comhttp://i.ixnp.com/images/v3.7/t.gif (http://www.diversionhobbies.com/)I checked um out and at first they pricey but if you go to check-out and the price goes WAY down, thanks for the link my bub, I go'in shop'in! your bub( got ten bucks, and I ain't scared)steve

Air Trucker
12-16-2007, 04:21 PM
welcome crashking. I to started with En easy star, then a minimag, twin star 2 now and gemini. I to had a bit of time with it in the start nbut I felt flying past help me to so what. I started with pipers and work ed up to warbird tag. 25,p51 etc. It just practice the more you fly r/c the better you get. And the easystar is great airplane to start with. Crash9 has two fpv stars with 450 I think brushless e-flight what a hot rod. Fly with pride Max

Alpea42
01-03-2008, 06:41 AM
Hey crash if R/C is completely foriegn to a commercial rated full scale pilot .Would you say full scale is also impossible to an R/C pilot .I like to fly Microsoft Flight Sim.#10 and have flown it best from the R/C perspective

CrashKing
01-04-2008, 01:43 AM
Learning to fly full-size aircraft would be no more difficult for an R/C pilot than for anyone else; they would just have to learn to do it, like I'm having to learn to fly RC. Actually, good eyesight and reflexes and coordination are an advantage in learning either, and the R/C pilot would at least already understand the basic flight principles of lift, angle of attack and stalls, banking to turn, control functions, etc. They really are two different things though; when flying a plane from inside it you see everything but the airplane and can feel what's happening as it happens.
R/C is entirely visual; there's no feedback through the controls and you only know what the plane is going to do after you see it happen. (At least that's how it is with me; I'm sure good flyers know exactly what their plane is doing without even thinking about it. But I suck at video games, too). BTW, for a look at a GREAT pilot, go to YouTube and search for "Bob Hoover aerial suite 3". This guy does stuff that I wouldn't believe if I hadn't seen it.::o

Alpea42
01-23-2008, 03:23 PM
I've seen Bob Hoover fly his twin engine Aero Commander( I think ) at air shows ( it was El Toro Marine Corps. Air station) many years ago .But i thought he met his maker in that plane a while back.The best trick I remember him doing is a low altitude slow roll with one engine feathered.Heck the both engines feathered and 2 min. of stunts and dead stick landing on that video was even better.Everytime I go to U tube I end up watching a 1/2 hour of aviation video :D

RacerPaul
01-23-2008, 03:38 PM
I've seen Bob Hoover fly his twin engine Aero Commander( I think ) at air shows many years ago .But i thought he met his maker in that plane a while back.The best trick I remember him doing is a low altitude slow roll with one engine feathered


...he does that slow roll while pouring (ahem) iced tea from a pitcher into a glass on the top of the instrument panel... awesome!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp2Uc9XvmjY&feature=related

Alpea42
01-23-2008, 03:56 PM
Yeah Bob Hoover was the MAN

Air Trucker
01-24-2008, 12:19 AM
The last time I saw Bob he was still alive and well but retired from flying.

Led Zeppelin
02-29-2008, 06:35 AM
Dear participants in the forum, first of all I would like to thank you for sharing your experience with unskilled pilots like me. I’ve been reading your tips for few weeks now and they have been really helpful when I fly my Super Cub. I have five questions drawn from my recent experience and I’ll be very thankful if you could give me some tips:

1) After hand-launching, my Cub tends to fly in clockwise circles without any input on my behalf. This continues even after trimming it (sliding the trim all the way to the left). How can I correct this if the trimming does not help? Does this happen because of strong side-winds or because the vertical stabilizer needs to be fixed (thugh it looks perfectly vertical to me)?

2) Sometimes when hand-launching the plane into the wind it tends to climb in a very steep almost ‘unnatural” trajectory as if it is going to make a loop by itself. I suppose this extreme lift is caused by gusts of front wind. Should I live the Cub to climb at this steep rate or should I rather limit its angle of climbing by reducing the throttle a notch or slightly pointing down its nose?

3) How to approach a situation where I launch the plane thinking that the wind conditions are calm (they look so on the ground) but it turns out that the weather up there is rather windy? So far I have been launching my Cub only above frozen lakes in Northern Canada. I've read Ed's recommendation to try to point down a bit the plane's nose against the wind to gain speed. But what should I do to land it safely after it gained speed?

4) Last week, I had a great time watching how my SuperCub glided freely as a bird for couple of minutes when his power was automatically cut off due to low battery. I even landed it safely without reengaging the motor! My questions is: isn’t it more safe for the plane to land it with a cut motor (this was my experience) as opposed to trying to ‘flare’ it with engageing the motor, which in most of the cases is hard to execute correctly as usually this prolongs the landing approach as the nose of the plane goes up more than intented?

5) Finally, how do you select where to land the plane when flying over empty fields? In my case it is alwas at random. Where should one be positioned when landing the plane (behind it? the plane coming streight to me? The plane landing sude to me?) In general my question is where should I be when 1) I start executing a landing approach and 2) when landing the plane on the ground? I've noticed that for a newby it is easier to be positioned behind the plane but I'm not sure if this is correct.

Thank you very much in advance. I'll be waiting for your tips before I go to fly my Cub again. I love this plane and I want to respect it and prevent it from crashes by flying it properly :)

Air Trucker
02-29-2008, 01:49 PM
First check rudder for being centered. Plug batt and everything should go to center of sevo. if not make adj to either sevo or at the rudder.

@. You control what the plane does. It will always want to climb onto the wind with power in less you trim it or power back and adj your flight path.

I alway try to land with power, Power is control where you want it. Saves on long walks.I line plane up facing it off to one side on landing app. Hope this helps.

Alex Moore
03-05-2008, 11:51 PM
I'm looking at getting the Areobird swift has any one had experience with this plain

ps i have had a experence with the blade cx2
but not with plains

madwebtvscientist
03-14-2008, 07:29 AM
CrashKing, Great to see so many encouraging posts since your first post. Sorry my responce is so late. I hope you can enjoy it anyway. Here goes . . .

wow! can I ever identify with you! I designed and flew Control-Line aerobatics aircraft, read almost everything about all kinds of airplanes including R/C since the Fifties, stumbled upon Air Hogs Aero Ace about two years ago and it has be down hill ever since. It was so frustrating to be trying to fly straight and level with my first not-so-appropriate-for-beginner-3ch airplanes and simply fly right into the ground! I also added to my miseries by insisting on learning to fly park flyers in a "park size" park - big mistake! I developed some really detrimental neurotic control reactions as a result of crashing so much that it took me months of training to overcome my irrational behavior.

Fortunately, in your case you are now flying one of the recognized best possible trainers. The key to success that you are already involved in is dogged persistence. I suspect that you intuitively know this but could use a little reassurance that you really are on the right path because things seem much more difficult than you thought they ought to be.

It is amazing how the body and mind can ever so impreceptively be trained over time with continual determined practice. A big problem with us older R/C beginners can be our emotional reactions to flight (and crash) phenomena.

As I shared with two other retirees that I flew with yesterday who are both beginning R/C modelers with concerns about whether they would ever be able to become proficient flyers, I told them that in the beginning after I completed a simple shallow "S" flight path from center field to the infield of a baseball field that I literally became weak in the knees when the plane landed. Even now as I pointed out to them as they stood beside me while I was demonstrating "warbird maneuvers" with my modified motor powered glider, I get so excited when I attempt an outside loop that can barely be performed without rolling out one way or the other that I can't always tell what the plane is doing. I have to repeatedly try the maneuver before I can be sure of what is actually happening.

Sometimes I can actually perform a really convincing outside loop. I am fairly certain that the plane I flew yesterday rolled out to starboard about 2/3rds of the way around the loop. I ironed a big translucent red "meatball" to the underside of the right wing panel to help prevent disorientation and I am sure it rolled the meatball direction. I am still adjusting and trimming for best performance. At some point I hope to become a competent "warbird maneuvering" R/C pilot. My first warbird will be a ducted fan Mig-15.

Your B-58 sounds like an awesome project, but I have no doubts but that you will be successful with it. My thing is fighters for socializing purposes. At the moment I really love high flying soaring with only a few maneuvers thrown in just for fun.

I hope you will be encouraged to know that you are perfectly normal and that most all (probably all) of us "old timers" suffer from the very same doubts and stresses as we do the impossible - teaching old dogs new tricks!

madwebtvscientist

____________________________________________
Modeling Promoting Blog:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/profile.cfm?section=blog&memid=266748

Modeling's rendezvous with destiny will surely be unstoppable when something greater than the narcissistic pleasure of an esoteric chosen few is adopted in modeling.

AeroSurfer
03-14-2008, 11:43 AM
Lot of useful Info:<:

CrashKing
03-16-2008, 04:51 PM
Thanks for the encouraging words, "Mad Scientist". It does seem that it's harder sometimes for us older guys to pick up new skills; probably because our brains are already so jammed full of other (mostly useless) stuff. I remember that I had a hard time learning to fly control-line planes when I was a kid, too. BTW, I think my flying buddy and I invented "3-D" about 45 years ago when we crashed his control-line P-40 and broke off a wing, then decided to break off the other wing in the interest of symmetry. With the little .049 motor screaming the wingless p-40 would hover about 20 feet up while spinning furiously and going through all sorts of wild gyrations. The fun ended when his Dad came out and read us the riot act; the usual "somebody's going to get hurt" nonsense. Adults were so unreasonable back then! LOL! I've been practising flying with the simulator a lot and it really is a BIG help. Actual flying isn't really the same but it's so much easier once the controls become instinctive and you don't have to think about which stick does what anymore while your plane crashes. My Easy Star has gotten easy enough that I've done some mods to it over the past month of bad weather, including ailerons and a good-sized brushless outrunner motor in the nose. I haven't been able to test it in this configuration yet but hopefully nicer weather is on the way.

madwebtvscientist
03-19-2008, 12:11 AM
Crash, tremendous life story! Your experiences are both inspirational and encouraging for us "older" modeling enthusiasts who sometimes tend to allow emotion rather than reason to influence our decisions. One of the beautiful things about your situation that jumps right out of the thread is the fact that you are a retired airline pilot. The kind of discipline you have developed in the past is a quality that virtually guarantees your success at anything you might set your mind to do in the future regardless of any "flack or fighters" along the way!

In the beginning over half a century ago none of us would-be modelers in Nehalem, Oregon could get our engines to do much more than pop at us. Big dry cell batteries died easily, etc. In spite of all our dismal failures I was determined to learned to fly.

I "invented whip-powered control-line flight" that allowed me to learn flight control skills well enough so that when I finally figured out how to get my engine to run I was able to fly successfully. The entire minute of successful heavier-than-air-powered flight, give or take a few seconds, was pure unsurpassed joy! Success after such a long period of failures of various kinds really helped intensify that final ultimate victory experience in the wild blue yonder! Since then I perfected my ULTIMATE FRUGAL FLYER whip powered stunter that I use to teach people how to fly. Pictures of one of my students can be seen on: http://community-2.webtv.net/RICHARDPORTER/THEEXCITEMENTOF/page2.html

Speaking of 3-D, out of pure loyalty to Air Hogs for their affordable high quality flying saucer and Aero Aces, I bought their "3D performing" Rolling Fury - it has some fun possibilities in mild weather conditions. I don't quite have a "handle" on it yet with its "blip" adjustable elevator or proportional vectored thrust directional control, but not both control functions at the same time.

Here are the instructions about how to fly the "wonderful 3D stunt action:" "Fly your jet at about 8 m (26') above the ground, pushing the left lever stick upward [full power] and pushing the right lever stick downward in a very fast action which will make the jet perform the above 3D stunt action" [simple loop]. Quotes are taken from Rolling Fury instructions with my comments in square brackets.

Okay, since I am actually only a Simi retired control-line guy rather than a real bona fide R/Cer would you please tell me what a "real" 3-D maneuver is?

When I did your trick with a wingless fuselage the forces were so great that the engine crank shaft broke at some point in its vertical spinning climb.

I believe you are probably right about flight sims, at least for us older students. I've read that some kids (and somewhat older people) actually learn how to fly very well from flight sims and they have had very little trouble with the "real thing" afterwards. Us older folks may be much more prone to emotional responses to the differences between sims and our "priceless real airplanes."

Good to hear about your ES. I am a little concerned though about the idea of mounting that new motor on the "front" of your plane. The c.g. could be brought badly out of tolerance. I'll bet you meant to say in the plane's motor pod.

Gotta run,

madwebtvscientist

____________________________________________
Modeling Promoting Blog:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/profile.cfm?section=blog&memid=266748

Modeling's rendezvous with destiny will surely be unstoppable when something greater than the narcissistic pleasure of an esoteric chosen few is adopted in modeling. :)

CrashKing
03-19-2008, 05:43 AM
Just wrote a long reply to "mad scientist", complete with pics of my modded EZ Star, then it all disappeared before I could submit it, when AOL decided my mail had "Timed Out"! I hate when that happens! I hate AOL! Oh, the motor is on the nose but the battery is in a compartment under the wing, and the CG is right on.

velojet
03-19-2008, 08:46 AM
Just wrote a long reply ... then it all disappeared before I could submit it, when AOL decided my mail had "Timed Out"! I hate when that happens!Yes, not nice at all! Here's a suggestion: write your posting offline, in a text editor or word processor, then when you're happy with it, copy it to the clipboard, then go online, paste it into the message box, add your piccies, and you'll get it all done long before AOL decides your time is up.

Love those ailerons!

Neko
03-19-2008, 03:59 PM
...he does that slow roll while pouring (ahem) iced tea from a pitcher into a glass on the top of the instrument panel... awesome!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp2Uc9XvmjY&feature=related

Wow! And I can't even rub my stomach and pat my head at the same time. The next video up on YouTube was this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRt6UnNzR6I&feature=related

That's what I want to be when I grow up, or at least be able to fly RC in that graceful, unhurried way, with perfect control. Maybe having someone play music like that when I fly would help.

madwebtvscientist
03-20-2008, 10:55 PM
Dear participants in the forum, first of all I would like to thank you for sharing your experience with unskilled pilots like me. I’ve been reading your tips for few weeks now and they have been really helpful when I fly my Super Cub. I have five questions drawn from my recent experience and I’ll be very thankful if you could give me some tips:

1) After hand-launching, my Cub tends to fly in clockwise circles without any input on my behalf. This continues even after trimming it (sliding the trim all the way to the left). How can I correct this if the trimming does not help? Does this happen because of strong side-winds or because the vertical stabilizer needs to be fixed (though it looks perfectly vertical to me)?

2) Sometimes when hand-launching the plane into the wind it tends to climb in a very steep almost ‘unnatural” trajectory as if it is going to make a loop by itself. I suppose this extreme lift is caused by gusts of front wind. Should I live the Cub to climb at this steep rate or should I rather limit its angle of climbing by reducing the throttle a notch or slightly pointing down its nose?

3) How to approach a situation where I launch the plane thinking that the wind conditions are calm (they look so on the ground) but it turns out that the weather up there is rather windy? So far I have been launching my Cub only above frozen lakes in Northern Canada. I've read Ed's recommendation to try to point down a bit the plane's nose against the wind to gain speed. But what should I do to land it safely after it gained speed?

4) Last week, I had a great time watching how my SuperCub glided freely as a bird for couple of minutes when his power was automatically cut off due to low battery. I even landed it safely without reengaging the motor! My questions is: isn’t it more safe for the plane to land it with a cut motor (this was my experience) as opposed to trying to ‘flare’ it with engaging the motor, which in most of the cases is hard to execute correctly as usually this prolongs the landing approach as the nose of the plane goes up more than intented?

5) Finally, how do you select where to land the plane when flying over empty fields? In my case it is always at random. Where should one be positioned when landing the plane (behind it? the plane coming straight to me? The plane landing sude to me?) In general my question is where should I be when 1) I start executing a landing approach and 2) when landing the plane on the ground? I've noticed that for a newbie it is easier to be positioned behind the plane but I'm not sure if this is correct.

Thank you very much in advance. I'll be waiting for your tips before I go to fly my Cub again. I love this plane and I want to respect it and prevent it from crashes by flying it properly


Zeppelin, I finally stumbled upon a PF Cub that I must have, and I can appreciate your pleasure with this classic piece of aviation history. Literally decades passed in my life while I vainly attempted to promote modeling joy using Control-Line aircraft, all the while promising myself a four channel Cub some fine day. That day is today or tomorrow depending upon the deal I can get.

Okay, lets get to your questions that might need more discussion. With all of the trimming and adjusting done on my current planes, trimming my new Cub should be a pure pleasure. So, I am now pretending that your Cub is identical to mine as I do some checking and testing. I don't think gusts or side winds are our main problem. In my case since I love to soar windier weather aloft is really neat because of all the thermals that allow no/low power soaring.

First, check the c.g. position. Is it in tolerance fore and aft. In the beginning it is best to locate the c.g. slightly more forward. The side to side c.g. can be a problem also. Add weight to the opposite wing tip to minimize turning in the opposite direction when aerodynamic adjustments alone aren't working. I also check to see if the horizontal stabilizer and wing are not warped or out of alignment with each other. Just a very slight amount of washout or wash-in differential in the wing panels can make a frustrating difference in flight performance.

Because I enjoy light airplanes that can glide nicely and fly slowly, My Cub will start its "life" using light LiPo batteries. If I can do a reasonably nice job I will also remove some "dead wood" from the structure, use carbon fiber push rods, etc., so that I can improve my chances of enjoying comfortably hand launch gliding to check trim before powered flight..

My experience with hand launch gliding has proven to work very well with my motor powered gliders. I am going to be very disappointed if I am unable to enjoy at least limited success hand gliding my Cub. Assuming hand launch gliding is practical, I will adjust the neutral control surfaces positions so that the glide path will allow me to wag the wings, wiggle the tail, and enjoy a little up and down control before the craft settles in for a nice soft touch down. At this point I will nervously, with heart pounding, throat drying, terror, shove the throttle forward to full power and hope for the best! I will attempt to climb out at a reasonable angle that does not bleed off "too much" speed that could result in a stall, level out and throttle back at a "resonable" altitude and then experiment with the controls to get comfortable with flying characteristics. I will try to remember to start my landing sequence when the battery just starts to loose power so that I will have that little extra control that can be useful for landing. Untill now all of my R/C landings have been "dead stick."

The excitement of R/C flying and the exercise of not only walking back and forth to the car for battery replacement but also walking out after the airplane after landing in various places is great for keeping my weight down to healthier levels. So, other than always trying to land into the wind, I don't bother too much with where to land. That is probably not the most "politically correct" attitude to have but then I do tend to be a bit of a maverick, so you might take this with a "grain of salt." Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! LOL!!!

HAVE FUN! I CAN'T WAIT TO GET MY NEW CUB!

madwebtvscientist

____________________________________________
Modeling Promoting Blog:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/profile.cfm?section=blog&memid=266748

Modeling's rendezvous with destiny will surely be unstoppable when something greater than the narcissistic pleasure of an esoteric chosen few is adopted in modeling.

Inspired_Art
03-25-2008, 11:50 PM
I started with an electric single channel foamie that was rudder only. This let me understand better the function of the rudder, and later on with a powered glider, with rudder and elevator together, I learned the functions of both, and how they relate or function together.
.

hiflyer, do those "rudder only" planes actually fly? I understand the concept behind them, but can't imagine how they get any altitude.????

oimmuk
03-26-2008, 12:26 AM
Many Moons ago when Buffalo still roamed the planes < just how they got on the planes I haven't a clue>..... We had single channel radio control basically it was an escapement that was either spring or rubber band powered and the radio would send out a signal and the escapement would allow turn *** In Only One Direction*** to move the rudder, you had to blip the stick to go from center to right to left back to center it was fun in those days.

Now those airplanes were modified Free Flight planes and they would climb by means of a little up elevator built into the plane and usally a bit of right or left rudder to slowly circle as it climbed out. When it ran out of fuel it would glide back to the ground, yes back then they built planes that actually were aerodynamically sound not flat pieces of foam or what have you. For the Free Flight models those they had timers or snuffer tubes to deploy a spoiler to cause it to come back down < you would like the snuffer tube in it you placed a piece of cotton cord that you lit with a match or lighter and it would burn down till it cut thru a rubber band holding the Spoiler down>.

Lift was achieved thru Airfoils that had a shape to them usually more akin to sail planes undercambered so that you had maximum lift and the wing loading was real low so with the forward thrust from the motor it would just naturally climb out. I would recommend that you google free flight planes or look at some Model magazines like Flying models or free flight <if it is still published> Model airplane news used to have some sections on free flight.

Yes back in those days they really built planes that could actually fly with little to no input from the Modeler...sigh I miss those days...sometimes....

Inspired_Art
03-26-2008, 01:30 AM
ok, Oimmuk, so I am assuming that this plane has a lift system built in already? So there is actually no need for an up/down control? Really the fan jet would take care of this by either cutting or applying the throttle?

oimmuk
03-26-2008, 06:24 AM
ok, Oimmuk, so I am assuming that this plane has a lift system built in already? So there is actually no need for an up/down control? Really the fan jet would take care of this by either cutting or applying the throttle?

This link (http://www.airfieldmodels.com/) should give you a bit more indepth information about model plane designs and what makes them fly, true you can take a flat board and with enough power make it fly, but not with grace and style.

madwebtvscientist
03-28-2008, 03:17 AM
Zeppelin, now that I am also a proud Cub owner I must attempt to make amends for "not exactly providing the kind of positive information" you were looking for.

After I realized that I had a "real model airplane" coming in the mail it dawned on me that I had better get some flight sim time taking off and landing with real landing gear. It also dawned on me that except for extending the landing path the throttle is not used for landing. The "flair" is performed just before touch down to pull the nose up for a three point landing with "Light planes." Landing a jet on a carrier does not count!

CrashKing, did I get the flair right? By the way I can still feel your composition pain. The only thing that makes me madder than web stuff that goes wrong is when I push the wrong button and lose work that has to be done over again. By following some of the above post's suggestions and a "few" tricks of my own, I finally have made "peace" with the web.

My new Cub is ready for its very first powered flight. With a 1.5 ounce Lipo battery The Cub can be hand launched for a gliding flight that is almost half as long as my motor powered gliders. Being totally inexperienced with using my left hand to operate the rudder I was unable to get my hand on the transmitter quick enough to test rudder and elevator/ailerons on the same flight. A few right hand launches demonstrated some rudder side slip behavior and the ability of the Cub to sustain some fairly hard "landings" (?). I need some training under power at altitude to get used to left handed rudder operation.

oimmuk, great post work! Love those LOL buffalos! My rudder only airplane was capable of turning right with "one blip" and left with "two blips." I lost my first polyhedral wing free flight airplane that climbed up into a thermal and flew away back in the late '50s.
I would stick around more but I gotta do some more stuff to my beautiful new Cub. Mainly I just have to look at it a lot.

madwebtvscientist

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retiredjb
04-01-2008, 05:25 PM
Jeremy,
We all have been where you’re starting and in many cases have had to rebuild or purchase parts or even worse, buy a new model. I read the comment from rcers and agree with him; you will go through many a plane unless you get proper training. One method that I used is purchasing a good flight simulator. I personally use the Great Planes simulator Real Flight and have had great success. At first you may say the simulator is expensive however, keep in mind the cost of replacing a plane or buying parts. They can cost far more in the long run than the original cost of a flight simulator. There are many other simulators on the market that cost less. Some of those require that you have a transmitter so they will cost less and that’s not a bad thing. Another good simulator is FS One; I have tried it and it works well. The other thing to keep in mind is, you can keep up the flying skills during the winter months when you cannot fly. And if you do crash, and you will, you press a button to rebuild the plane. A fun thing I do is keep track of the crashes and the cost of the destroyed plane. After awhile you will see the amount of money you have saved.
Now having said all of that, I would strongly suggest that find a RC pilot who is willing help you learn to fly. Look for an AMA flying field and you should be able to find a pilot. Many AMA sites have training programs available. I think one of the most important things to do is going the AMA and this will include insurance. They now have a Park Flyer version that cheaper for those who want to fly at local parks. This a great program and having AMA membership is required at any AMA sanctioned filed. AMA stands for Academy of Model Aeronautics. Their web site is www.modelaircraft.org (http://www.modelaircraft.org/). the phone number is 1-800-I-fly-AMA (435-9262).
The one thing I have been told over and over again is if the cost of this hobby drives you nuts then you should not be flying RC aircraft. However, when things go well you can’t beat it for fun. I hope you enjoy it as much as others do.
Happy landings

CrashKing
04-04-2008, 12:16 AM
I've also found that time on a simulator makes a big difference, even though it's not really the same as flying a real model. Also, expensive Lipo batteries and brushless motors are not essential to have fun flying, especially when learning. Brushed motors, ESCs, and Ni-MH batteries are dirt cheap these days and still work as well as they did when they were The Latest Thing. I recently lost a brand new $60 Lipo battery when my plane spent 3 days 75 feet up in a tree. While jockying the throttle trying to dislodge it, I somehow got into programming mode and couldn't get it out. When the wind finally blew the plane down, the battery was junk; under 1V per cell. A Ni-MH battery would have been much cheaper and could have been recharged.

retiredjb
04-04-2008, 04:18 AM
CrashKing,

The cost of LiPo batteries is one drawback to electric flying if you go above the 40 size motors. This is one reason that I have decided to stay in the 25 size motors. This is one reason that I make sure my batteries are charged stored correctly.
I agree with you regarding flight simulators. Before I returned back to RC flying I would have lost a great number of planes. The flight simulator helped me get the basics down and save money at the same time. When I see someone who is looking at a RC plane and I find out he doesn’t have any flying experience I recommend that he finds either a good instructor or and friend who has a flight simulator or better yet, find one that fits into their budget. I feel its money well spent.
A few weeks ago at the flying site I visit a flyer crashed an Ultastick and the battery pack was bent in half. The pack cost him around $150 and he said it would be awhile before he could purchase a new one. This is a great hobby, but can be an expensive one.

madwebtvscientist
04-04-2008, 08:45 PM
Jeremy Z, as a self taught R/C'er I always recommend that beginners start their "aviation training program" with something like the "virtually indestructible Air Hogg's Aero Ace." The low price, high quality EXCEED-RC ACCIPITER BADIUS is my particular "weapon of choice" for the second plane, though now it has a lot of competition. All of my R/C airplanes are still flyable, many of which have been crashed and repaired a lot. My last two (2) ABs have never been crashed. Yes, it was time for me to move up to something a "little more stressful" to fly - enter the scale Cub with wheels.

Something that might be useful for other beginning flyers that I don't ever remember learning about is to be sure to allow at least a brief period of time "skimming over the runway" just as the plane lifts off before hauling the stick back. I blamed most of my crashes on take off to "side winds," lack of experience using my left thumb to control rudder, and an out-of-trim airplane. Although all of these factors surely played a part in my disasters, after careful "flight recorder data" examination I am now convinced that most of my recent trauma could have been avoided by simply disciplining myself to "skim over the grass" briefly to build up enough air speed to avoid any stall inducing circumstances before "gingerly" easing the stick back.

Using rudder instead of ailerons is vitally important when flying near stall speed. I got so spoiled flying with coupled aileron/rudder control on my modified motor powered gliders using right stick only, that it is taking time for me to "unlearn" an otherwise instinctive reaction that can destroy.

An unintended benefit from all the above adventures was to gain experience in structural reinforcement improvements that helps provide a greater level of confidence against the increasingly unlikely event of a crash as a result continuous flight training. Confidence based on solid facts eventually pays off in valuable flying practice that builds even more confidence which, in turn, provides motivation for continuing experimentation and growth.

Although I still have one "400 speed" size airplane that is "very happy" using NiMH batteries and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future, All of my other planes have demonstrated a very noticeable improvement that is well worth the $20 price of the "new generation" LiPo batteries. I enjoy the slower flight characteristics possible with the lighter wing loadings, as well as the tendency to sustain less damage when attempting to fly "outside the envelope."

One of my main reasons for using LiPos has been to see just how much aerobatics performance I can "squeeze" out of airplanes that are otherwise mainly intended for beginning pilots. Because LiPos have so much power capacity that, in addition to astonishment at daring unusual maneuvers, spectators tend to also be surprised at how long your flights are.

Modeling really is the ultimate way to excite scientific activity. Once science rather than the "religious defense of the status quo" becomes the emphasis in culture, modeling is going to really take off!

madwebtvscientist

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matador527
05-17-2008, 06:11 PM
I'm just learning to fly r/c, but I can't think of any rules that I can foresee being more important than what I learned right off the bat from an Air Force instructor: There's NOTHING more useless than the sky ABOVE you, the runway BEHIND you, or 5 seconds AGO! (Hmmm...seems like that rule would apply to life its ownself... )

Stan-the-Man
05-19-2008, 09:17 AM
I'm just learning to fly r/c, but I can't think of any rules that I can foresee being more important than what I learned right off the bat from an Air Force instructor: There's NOTHING more useless than the sky ABOVE you, the runway BEHIND you, or 5 seconds AGO! (Hmmm...seems like that rule would apply to life its ownself... )

Hi Mat,

Welcome to R/C flying. We fly in the sky above us, often land on the runways behind us, and wish we had sight of the plane we started with 5 seconds ago.

Stan-the-Man

Balil
05-19-2008, 09:22 AM
ah i remember the first time i flew/crashed an rc plane.... now if i can just stop crashing heli's i will stop spending so much money... oh wait nvm i just need to learn the heli stuff... the money is spent anyways :D

madwebtvscientist
05-19-2008, 09:37 PM
:)matador, your statement of wisdom would make a fun post signature. Welcome to the emerging new edifying approach to enjoying modeling. Virtually everyone associated with this web site is loaded with helpful ideas and encouragement for new modeling enthusiasts.

The only thing I can think of that you might find useful that tends not to be discussed much is a problem I am still having with certain airplanes.. ORIENTATION (brain thinks plane is in a different orientation than it is) - although flying experience eventually helps, some ideas that might help prevent some "anguish of spirit" include the usual admonitions for beginners to fly slower airplanes with adequate power to weight ratios in order to gain "life saving altitude" fairly quickly. Some of the newer motor powered sail planes fit the bill very nicely and they can easily be aesthetically modified to provide a different enough color on one wing to minimize orientation difficulties.

I haven't actually crashed my newest warbird yet but the increased speed, lower stability, etc, of this machine really makes me nervous. I really hate getting disoriented with it. Naturally, I wouldn't dare mess with it's impressive aesthetics so I am stuck with trying to overcome orientation problems with sheer will power.

The "joy" of overcoming challenges is what makes modeling so priceless (I have to remind myself of this when things don't go quite as well as I think they ought.
madwebtvscientist
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madwebtvscientist
08-09-2008, 05:40 AM
THIS IS REALLY IT!

TRIANGLE LOOP WITH ROLLS ON THE STRAIGHT SIDES AND A "REAL ENERGY MANAGEMENT VERTICAL FIGURE EIGHT" WERE FINALLY ACCOMPLISHED TODAY! (8/8/08)

Temperature was in the mid '70's at near sea level air density, airplane weight was 22.5 ounces with a 2.5 ounce 11.1 volt LiPo battery during these two final maneuvers that "needed" to be performed by my ParkZone Spitfire.

The vertical eight is flown by diving at full throttle into an outside loop that begins the figure eight at the bottom of the loop which forms the intersection of the eight. Power is chopped at the top of the outside loop and the Spit performs the rest of the maneuver dead stick. Just as the bottom inside loop is completed at the intersection with the plane inverted, approximately 2/3 throttle is applied and either an inside or an outside barrel roll can be used to bring the craft back to normal level flight.

After climbing to a maximum comfortable cruising altitude from launch this vertical figure eight maneuver will start my "air show performance." Next, a horizontal figure eight with first an inside loop and then an outside loop, are both flown at approximately 2/3 throttle. I find it amazing that this is possible.

At some point near the beginning of the flight while the battery is still at peak power, our "P-38 flying demo triangle with rolls on the straight sides" can be attempted. From about 600 feet altitude gain some speed in a shallow dive at full throttle and perform the maneuver - my final crowning glory with the Spitfire. I am so happy with this airplane words fail me!

I always like to throw in a square loop just for fun before I slack off to 2/3 throttle for all the rest of the maneuvers except consecutive aileron only victory rolls that are performed while climbing and require extra power. Five to fifteen mph winds today had me making a few extra attempts in order to make some of the rest of the maneuvers recognizable.

A HEARTY "TALLY-HO" TO ALL!!!

madwebtvscientist

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Dancingeagle
08-30-2008, 12:27 PM
I am having a problem with the third Parkzone P-51 I have bought. (Cheap enough on e-bay thank god) anyway the first one was a diaster crashed and burned several times before I got the hang of it. The second one was much better however the landings are rough for me and it seems thats where I alway run into a problem. The present problem however is very different and I have it on a couple of my planes. When I hand launch the plane it tends to roll to the left and flip over How do I prevent this from happening???? It does this on my jet also. I have been in this sport or hobby now since March 2008 and have spent many many , many hours on the flight sim with different models. I have bought many , many , many planes and have around 20 in my hangar. Most are park flyers but one is a 60 scale. I am great at building the things and repairing the crash damage but flying them is another story. I have a hobby zone cub that flys really great and have been training on it for a while now and have just recently put a brushless motor in it. WOW!!!! what a difference. Was a little hard to control at first but one I got it trimed out it did just great. Still have a landing problem with this one tho. Landing is not kind to me most of the time.Any way my point is the roll over how do I stop this action on the planes??????? I have planes in my hangar that I have not flown yet because I don't want to crash them and I know that I do not have the experience to fly them yet but boy it is hard to stay away from flying them. We don't have a lot of flyers where I live and I usally fly in a old corn field. Very rural where I am so experienced flyers are real hard to find let alone a flying field. Any help would be great .

madwebtvscientist
08-30-2008, 06:59 PM
Eagle, this is what exciting modeling is all about! First you must tell me about your HZ Cub. I have added larger front wheels on mine and can keep from flipping over more than 50% of the time landing on short grass. I plan to add still larger, lighter hollowed out streamlined carbon fiber reinforced balsa wheels with skinny rubber washer tires when I have time get serious about really making it talk to me.
Please tell me what I need to know about your brushless motor and what must be done to the Cub to make it work without burning anything up inside the plane. I use 1.5 - 2 ounce LiPos in my Cub and if I land before running out of power I can usually do a fair job of touching down on landing. I kill the power immediately to prevent burning out the ESC in case the grass is to high and flips me over.

Okay, while you are doing that I will look up the urls for the lighter batteries you need to get the weight down on your Mustang. With 2.5 ounce 11.1 volt LiPos you should be able to launch the P-51 successfully at 2/3 - 3/4 power. Also dial in a little right trim just for the launch phase of the flight, then trim to neutral as you are safely climbing out.

Okay, let me get back to you with some url's for possible use that should help solve all of your challenges.

madwebtvscientist

p.s. My Cub is a FlyZone not a HobbyZone Cub. Sorry about the mistake, I hope you did not go to too much trouble. As excited as I get it's a good thing models not full scale is involved here.
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madwebtvscientist
08-30-2008, 09:31 PM
:D Eagle, below are urls for batteries that will help make hand launches easier. It is important to launch straight ahead rather than at a climbing angle that can allow torque to stall out that left wing panel. Another adjustment that can help is to trim both ailerons deflected slightly up. This minimizes "aileron reversal" at slow speed due to tip stalling.

My planes are so light that I don't even take a step during launch, but it is a very good idea to take a couple of steps and put on some serious "oomph" in order to get safely above stalling speed on launch. If it is practical as you face upwind always launch slightly to the right of the wind direction.

Landings should always be into the wind as much as is practical. Due to "trauma induced neurotic responses" from previous aeronautical disasters I often find it necessary to look over my shoulder in order to maintain good control on landing approaches. Using a little power just before touchdown can help the plane fly slower and land more softly than straight dead stick landings. Watch out about applying power too quickly at slow speed, torque can kill. I am not very good at landings myself. Flying is my thing, any landing I can walk away from is a good landing. (LOL).

Here are some killer battery possibilities.

I have two of these and really like them. I added "deans" high current plugs in the place of the little ones that came with the batteries.
http://www.raidentech.com/119015cercfu.html

This battery requires a charge connector adaptor or a connector substitution in order to work with the same chargers as all the other batteries do... I also had to use my Monokote iron to elongate the battery holder on my Spitfire in order for the battery to fit.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXRVP8&P=6


Here are some interesting choices. I really like the 1500mAh size for long flights.
http://www.raidentech.com/high-performance-lithium-polymer-batteries-for-rc-helicopter-rc-plane.html

Here is a battery I may try in the future.
http://www.all-battery.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2259

Hope all this helps. We have some fun flyers posting over on the HZ Cub and Spitfire threads on the RCU forum who would enjoy reading about your adventures. Drop by and say Hi if you can. The FZ Cub thread would enjoy your experiences also.

madwebtvscientist
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Dancingeagle
08-31-2008, 05:47 AM
The battery that I am using is a 1300 mAh 18 c li poly. How much it weights is a guess at "Oh"... 2.5 oz's or less. The motor is a brushless 3550 KV and weight is about 1 1/2 oz but the thrust is out of this world. I am clocking the cub at about 40 mph right now at 1/2 to 2/3 throddle. I am using different servo's that are 9g with 17 oz of tor. one for the rudder and one for the elev. I use the JR synth 790 rx because My TX is the JR Xp 7202 and can hold up to 20 models including heli's. I have 14 models on it now. The Cub was OK with the stock 400 motor that came with it but as I was collecting planes I was also collecting a lot of transmitters to go with them and room became a problem not to mention all the AAA batteries. So I broke down and bought the JR transmitter on E-Bay for 25 bucks. Got a good deal if I do say so myself. Also get all my recievers on E-Bay as well as ESC's and motors. I rarely go to the hobby shop for a part as it cost to much for anything. I can usally pick up a 100 amp ESC for about 40 dollars and 30 amp's for as little as 5 bucks and the motors are pretty cost effective also. Everything else on the Cub is pure stock. I live in a very rural area but there is a very large park 1/2 block from me and a paved road runs right next to it and it is perfect for a runway as very little traffic comes down this way. I like to think of it as my own private little airport runway. It does come in very handy. I made a perfect thre point landing tonight and was just thrilled to the max about it. I use the Cub as my practice plane and it is the first one that I fly each tim eI go out to fly. I figure that If I can fly the Cub I can fly my other warbirds. I have the Parkzone P-51 and FW -190 as well as the Spitfire as I said and they are all great to fly the Spitfire is outragious as I also put a 4000 brushless motor on it. It was wild at first trying to handle it as it was all over the place and trimming it was a bear because it just refused to go slow. I finally got it trimmed out alright and just love to fly it because it handles better than the P-51 and the FW 190. I also have a P-40 warhawk (balsa) anothe rP-51 (balsa) an F4U (balsa) and another spitfire also balsa. I just finished a .60 scale Zero that is fiberglass and balsa but I haver not flown any of the balsa planes yet. They are so pretty and I don't want to crash any of them so I figure once I get good enough on the foam planes I will then got to the wood planes. I also have the Diablo jet that I am training on for ducted fan jet flight and it is my second one. It is not a bad plane but the motors on the dual jet overheat and you lose power after about 200 yards. Guess it is time to change those motors out also. I also have an foam F-18 Hornet jet (the nose has disapeared due to many crashes) that I am using as jet training. Not very good on this one yet. I have one slow flyer the S.E.A 15 bi plane but I can not seem to get it off the ground. I also have a P-40 thunderbolt that has gotten up twice but is a real bear because I bought it as a lot item and got two of them but the motor mounts are awful and the motor kept falling off so I had to try and make my own and so far it has not turned out the way I would like. I have a F-22 raptor waiting to be flown but that will be after I am much better with the jets. I also have the Sapac Griffin JAS 39 that is my next build. I have an F-15 and a Mirage waiting to be built also as well as a Folkker red baron tri plane. Those are my winter projects. My favorate plane is the E-flite P-38 with counter rotating props. What a plane !!!!!!! Takes off smooth as you could want and with the brushless motors it just zips across the sky the way you see them do in the video's. I can do rolls and flips and even fly inverted with that plane and the landings are a dream come true...... so easy. I should have bought this plane first. I am looking to buy a balsa and plywood P-38 but that is down the road. I figure that if I get the Mitchell B-25 or the B-17 for christmas I will be one happy man and my hangar will be complete. Oh I almost forgot also have a Yak 360 that need to be built but I have that on the back burner as I really like the warplanes mosts of all. I guess you can tell that I really have gotten into this hobby since my son got me the little heli last christmas. I have planes all over the garage and the wife just shakes her head and smiles when I talk about them. She's actually happy that I have finally found a hobby that I can throw myself into. I just like all the aspects of this hobby. Building , repairing , upgrading and most of all the flying. I do have a friend who I told about my hobby and he went out and bought a foam A-10 warthog which he left in the box for four months until he finally brought it over to me and I put it together. It's still in the garage as he has not come to get it yet. Ok I am rambling on now. I do prefer to have wheels and roll into the sky rather than hand launch as I feel that I have better control if I can guide it down the runway and get it up. I will take your tips and apply them and see what happens and keep you informed. I will try and get a look at the other threads you mentioned also. As I said I am still fairly new at this hobby about four or five months on the planes so I look to get better with the years and the experience as well as tips from all the nice people here. It's nice to meet you and I am glade we had time to have a little chat.

Darrell D. King
Dancingeagle
Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
Anton Chekhov

Air Trucker
08-31-2008, 01:54 PM
The p-51 Model flies like the real thing. You drop the power on landing and it will drop like a rock. Then most people try to power out to hard and it will roll over the same dir as the prop. the same is on take off and to much power it will roll over. you have to build up air speed and power slowly or she will roll over. I have flown both the real thing and the model. Max

madwebtvscientist
09-02-2008, 12:10 AM
:) Eagle, thanks for all the information. I got especially excited about your report on the P-38. Please let us know how your P-51, etc., end up flying for you.

With all your enthusiasm, I hope you won't burn out. Your success in such a short time is pretty spectacular! Please try to not get too stressed about anything, modelers like yourself are just too neat to lose.

Air, your experience as a full scale P-51 pilot is priceless. Could you tell us some more about your experiences and your impressions about the P-51?

I do have a question though. I noticed that the torque phenomena on my practice landing approaches always seems to try to force the plane to roll in the opposite direction from the propeller rotation as opposed to the "same dir as the prop" indicated in your post. Could you enlighten me a little more about this matter,"

Thank you very much for your information. My need for a P-51 will probably be delayed until I start learning something a little more positive about it's flying performance qualities. I am really addicted to my PZ Spitfire.

The p-51 Model flies like the real thing. You drop the power on landing and it will drop like a rock. Then most people try to power out to hard and it will roll over the same dir as the prop. the same is on take off and to much power it will roll over. you have to build up air speed and power slowly or she will roll over. I have flown both the real thing and the model. Max

madwebtvscientist
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Keith wilson
10-04-2008, 02:42 PM
:) Eagle, thanks for all the information. I got especially excited about your report on the P-38. Please let us know how your P-51, etc., end up flying for you.

With all your enthusiasm, I hope you won't burn out. Your success in such a short time is pretty spectacular! Please try to not get too stressed about anything, modelers like yourself are just too neat to lose.

Air, your experience as a full scale P-51 pilot is priceless. Could you tell us some more about your experiences and your impressions about the P-51?

I do have a question though. I noticed that the torque phenomena on my practice landing approaches always seems to try to force the plane to roll in the opposite direction from the propeller rotation as opposed to the "same dir as the prop" indicated in your post. Could you enlighten me a little more about this matter,"

Thank you very much for your information. My need for a P-51 will probably be delayed until I start learning something a little more positive about it's flying performance qualities. I am really addicted to my PZ Spitfire.



madwebtvscientist
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Modeling's rendezvous with destiny will surely be unstoppable when something greater than the narcissistic pleasure of an esoteric chosen few is adopted in modeling.

Think he means the opposite of the direction of the prop. It will try to go in a left bank if you apply too much throttle quickly. And im talking about the real one too.

...Keith...

madwebtvscientist
11-21-2008, 06:32 AM
Yes, I suspected as much, but I was hoping to make friends with a real Mustang pilot. I am really impressed with the "scale like speed" and with careful stick inputs, "scale like maneuvers" possible with ParkZone WWII warbirds as well as other historic fighters. My Nitro Models F-15 Eagle is actually easier to fly than the WWII fighters and seems to be even easier to fly and maneuver realistically.

It seems a bit strange how difficult it is on this thread to keep a growing conversation going with possible new flying friends. Hopefully the situation will change as modeling takes on a more culturally relevant roll.


madwebtvscientist
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Dancingeagle
11-21-2008, 02:09 PM
well flyers I can't say that I have any new news to report on the P-51 as I have not yet had the opp to get out and fly it . Weather and other factors have been keeping me away from my beloved hobby for a while now but I am hoping to find some time soon to get back to the workbench as I have many project to complete. I will however keep you all posted on the tips I get .

Kavurcen
12-23-2008, 09:25 PM
you should buy about 5-10
Ummm, do you want to spend a thousand dollars?

HERNAN
01-19-2009, 07:22 PM
Hello, in order to easily control the plane with a transmitter, i usually move the elevator stick (one on the right) thinking like this:
If i want the nose of the plane to go up i just pull.
If i want the nose of the plane to go down i just push.

So better this way, instead of thinking of up elevator and pulling the stick down and down elevator and pushing it up, this way is kind of
confusing the mind.

So, better if i think of nose down and up, and pulling for up and pushing for down.

Try it !!!

Keith wilson
01-19-2009, 08:34 PM
The p-51 Model flies like the real thing. You drop the power on landing and it will drop like a rock. Then most people try to power out to hard and it will roll over the same dir as the prop. the same is on take off and to much power it will roll over. you have to build up air speed and power slowly or she will roll over. I have flown both the real thing and the model. Max

If you punch the throttle dont you mean it will roll opposite the prop direction?

...Keith...

airmail wf
01-19-2009, 11:49 PM
This seems like a landing thing rather then a plane thing. Trim is a very important aspect of landing. How are you trimming your plane for landing? Also I find in better to fly the plane in for a landing as opposed to coming in as slow as I can. This way the wind doesn't affect the plane as much. After you become more proficient the slower you can go. Trim the plane for straight and level flight at half throttle this is very important. When you back off the throttle for landing the plane should start to loose altitude. If it's coming down to fast you can either give it a little more throttle or a little more up trim. I would go with the throttle myself. But you do what you feel comfortable with. The main thing is keep the speed up on the plane while loosing altitude. Don't go to fast but don't go to slow. You should be able to use the ailerons to keep the wings level and the nose slightly down or level with the elevator. Nose is NEVER up on landing. Stay like this till just before touch down then just ease back on the throttle and as the plane slows down ease back on the elevator and you are down. Most newbies slow the plane way down and hold the nose up. This is not good on any type of plane. Next time you fly try to fly the plane in for a landing and see what happens.

Phat Max
03-09-2009, 01:02 AM
Thanks for this sticky...very helpful for a beginner! :tc:

madwebtvscientist
05-18-2009, 06:36 PM
It has been a while since I dropped by and find this is as good a time as any to share some new stuff that has been useful to inspire newbies. Please click on:
RE: Badius Owners Club (CONTINUED)
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5202911/anchors_8769166/mpage_581/key_/anchor/tm.htm#8769166
Please Page down to post # 14505

Please don't hesitate to ask any questions you might have. Aircraft modeling is on a roll and is seriously involved in the culture war in a way that will surely have a positive influence on the inevitable outcome in the triumph of truth.

I am "temporarily" unable to respond to all the neat stuff on the RCU forum so assuming this forum is able to continue to drone on toward the target area, it will have to serve as my current weapon of choice.

Thanks for keeping this forum alive!

madwebtvscientist
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Modeling's rendezvous with destiny will surely be unstoppable when something greater than the narcissistic pleasure of an esoteric chosen few is adopted in modeling.

hungryjoe56
07-18-2009, 02:18 AM
Hope this goes in the right spot: When Ed Anderson says to keep your plane "up wind" from you does that mean that I'm facing into the wind at all times? Why can't you let the plane pass you?

soarr
07-18-2009, 06:09 AM
Hope this goes in the right spot: When Ed Anderson says to keep your plane "up wind" from you does that mean that I'm facing into the wind at all times? Why can't you let the plane pass you?

Yes, you should try to face into the wind and keep your plane from drifting downwind. The problem is that if you get too far downwind, you may not have enough power to fly into the wind to get back.

Mike

madwebtvscientist
07-18-2009, 07:31 AM
Hope this goes in the right spot: When Ed Anderson says to keep your plane "up wind" from you does that mean that I'm facing into the wind at all times? Why can't you let the plane pass you?

hungryjoe, yes, flying upwind is the ideal strategy for most flying. There are cases, however, where the wind is coming out of the sun in morning or late in the day. Beginning flyers can find these conditions difficult, so can some of us more experienced flyers. I maidened a new plane recently and was forced to fly mostly down wind or 90 degrees from down wind to keep the sun out of my eyes. Fortunately, I was able to regain control after becoming disoriented with the unfamiliar plane down wind as I had let the plane get too far away. This is the real danger of down wind flying.

Proper landing technique is the most comfortable for me to circle down wind and attempt to land flying up wind past myself so as to not have to walk so far to retrieve my plane.

Happy flying!

madwebtvscientist (< :
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Numbthumbs
07-18-2009, 08:30 AM
HI Madweb, yes, flying into the sun is dangerous for beginners! Her is a video of what happens when one flies into the sun! I did this with my Trojan here and my Super Cub as well. Always fly with sunglasses, and never directly into the sun. I lost sight of the Trojan for about one second and well...you will see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DToMFlbW0kY

madwebtvscientist
07-21-2009, 04:21 AM
thumbs, Sorry about your T-28. My Web TV media reader won't allow me to see your plane. I hope it won't be too hard to repair or replace.

I should wear sun glasses myself especially under the above mentioned conditions. I always choose to fly "down sun" regardless of where the wind is blowing without sun glasses because I enjoy seeing my plane more clearly. I have enough experience now that I have myself convinced that I don't have to be overly concerned about "minor" wind or sun conditions. Extra horsepower can provide that little extra margin of safety that can be useful in marginal conditions.

Having totaled a beautiful SPAD recently in windy conditions did turn out to be a rather humbling experience, so I do need to pay attention to possible dangers and not allow myself to be quite so cocky sometimes.

madwebtvscientist (<:
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Numbthumbs
07-26-2009, 06:56 PM
Thanks Madweb! The plane glued up nicely and still flies like a champ. Got over 30 packs through her now, and feel much, much more confident in flying it. Long ways to go to get where I want to be though!

hungryjoe56
07-27-2009, 07:53 PM
I need help. Maybe I'm too old (over 70) to pick this hobby up. Maybe this is a game for kids who grew up on video games. I've been into model planes all my life, but not the r/c variety. Now that I'm retired and have the money, I've leaped into r/c, and I'm one frustrated dude. I've tried to read these threads and follow their recommendations. I've loaded FMS and tried to gain flight experience. Seems I'm as bad at FMS as I am with my Parkzone j-3 cub. My wife feels for me and wants me to start over with a different plan (Super Cub?). But I want to work this out first with my j-3 cub. I've wrecked so many times my plane looks like a relic from the junk pile. I own three motors, and I've gotten quite good at straightening propeller shafts, and rebuilding my plane.

I paid a kid at the hobby shop to give me a flying lesson and all that amounted to is his showing off with loops etc. and then landing my plane on a dime. He handed the controls to me once but I gave it back when I had the plane headed straight down.

First problem. I try to hand launch and the plane just nose dives ahead of me. I think I've read that you are not supposed to over control it at launch so only the throttle is on. Next, I try to take-off from the pavement. I have trouble getting the plane to taxi and speed up in a straight line. Finally, today, I got it airbourne by hold full up elevator and favoring left rudder. But as soon as I had it in the air, I overcooked the full up elevator and stalled nose first into the gravel road. Ouch!

I'm not whining. I'm a big boy. But does anyone see anything here, other than keep doing it?

Keith wilson
07-27-2009, 08:29 PM
I need help. Maybe I'm too old (over 70) to pick this hobby up. Maybe this is a game for kids who grew up on video games. I've been into model planes all my life, but not the r/c variety. Now that I'm retired and have the money, I've leaped into r/c, and I'm one frustrated dude. I've tried to read these threads and follow their recommendations. I've loaded FMS and tried to gain flight experience. Seems I'm as bad at FMS as I am with my Parkzone j-3 cub. My wife feels for me and wants me to start over with a different plan (Super Cub?). But I want to work this out first with my j-3 cub. I've wrecked so many times my plane looks like a relic from the junk pile. I own three motors, and I've gotten quite good at straightening propeller shafts, and rebuilding my plane.

I paid a kid at the hobby shop to give me a flying lesson and all that amounted to is his showing off with loops etc. and then landing my plane on a dime. He handed the controls to me once but I gave it back when I had the plane headed straight down.

First problem. I try to hand launch and the plane just nose dives ahead of me. I think I've read that you are not supposed to over control it at launch so only the throttle is on. Next, I try to take-off from the pavement. I have trouble getting the plane to taxi and speed up in a straight line. Finally, today, I got it airbourne by hold full up elevator and favoring left rudder. But as soon as I had it in the air, I overcooked the full up elevator and stalled nose first into the gravel road. Ouch!

I'm not whining. I'm a big boy. But does anyone see anything here, other than keep doing it?


Joe:

Your not to old im 78 going on 79, where do you live im in Pa

Think your prob is too much up elevator, you are stalling it and nose drops to the ground. Take it easy on your up elevator,dont let the nose climb so much and get some altitude and you sould be ok to start with. Cant you get somrone with a buddy cord to help you out?

...Keith...

hungryjoe56
07-27-2009, 09:58 PM
Thanks Keith. I'm in it for the long haul. I'm begining to think that my cub is so battered that things are out of alignment. For one thing, the wing as several wrinkles in it. Think I'll buy a new wing to see how that goes. I'm getting pretty good at this mechanic stuff, but I think I've knocked the gliding ability out of the poor thing. You shouldn't have to give the plane full up elevator just to get it in the air, should you?

I'm in Montana summers, and Arizona winters. Tough life, huh?

Joe

madwebtvscientist
07-30-2009, 10:06 PM
WOW! This thread is really getting HOT! I hope everybody will hang in there.

In an attempt to be fair I will try to respond with edifying comments in the order the new posts came in.

thumbs, you are definitely on a roll! Interestingly, the next url brings up (most of the time) a parallel discussion with this thread about the dangers that can be lurking in the sun. In the beginning of my R/C career a few years ago I also managed to crash a couple of times due to the blinding effects of the sun.

I highly recommend that all fun loving warbird enthusiasts visit this thread and enjoy fighting the Battle of Britain with us. You will find that your favorite airplane is also being flown by some Spitfire enthusiasts on the thread. RE: Parkzone Supermarine Spitfire Mk11B
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4949251/mpage_49/tm.htm

Ryan, I bought a little, almost indestructible "Air Hoggs" R/C airplane from "Target" for an 8 year kid that seemed to work out very well. There are so many really good choices now as you might have already noticed on this thread that it would be presumptuous of me to recommend any single product. Part of the excitement of flight is that "little whiff of danger" that can intensify the emotion of possible new flying experiences. DARE TO BE A GREAT PILOT! (<:

hungryjoe, as a senior citizen like yourself I can identify with you a lot better than some of our young 60 year old modeling whippersnappers. (LOL) I highly recommend that you pick out a tough aesthetically appealing motor powered glider and practice hand launch gliding and wiggling the controls during the gliding flight as it settles in for a landing. I have developed a left hand launching technique that allows me to have control of my planes from the instant of launch. I often demonstrate this with new modeling prospects and can easily get the plane to fly 40 - 60 yards of smooth graceful gliding. Practice doing this until you begin to feel comfortable and in control.

Next, turn the motor on briefly then shutting it down for longer gliding flight. Continue this training until you begin to feel comfortable again. Okay, at some point when you are really beginning to think that this is a piece of cake, try to control the plane to fly an "S" shape path. The first time I successfully did this I literally felt weak in the knees.

Once you can fly out and perform a circle flight path back to yourself in either direction you are on your way to winning your wings. The final hurdle is to fly a figure eight flight path, then, after the nerves settle down, practice consecutive figure eights. You will now be unstoppable.

Please keep us posted so we can vicariously enjoy your inevitable progress.

FLY! FLY! FLY!

madwebtvscientist
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Rolling Thunder
07-31-2009, 01:11 AM
I'm not whining. I'm a big boy. But does anyone see anything here, other than keep doing it?

Hi Joe:).Let me give you an idea to consider which will surely get me flamed by my fellow wattheads like nobodys been flamed before:<:

Try reversing your elevator switch on your radio so when you push up on the stick the plane goes up.Push down & the plane goes down.Seems logical to me.How bout' you:D

This is how I taught myself how to fly when I first started.Your brain(or at least most brains) are naturally wired to think this way.We have to "unlearn" this when we want to fly are toy planes like the real pilots fly;)

Now that I am fairly proficient at flying I can fly either way

Oh...and if you dont think this is controversial just take a look at this pole I did- Poll-what style are you with the sticks (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43721)
Good Winds Buddy-RT

Sabrehawk
07-31-2009, 01:44 AM
Well if ya wanna know how to fly,...........exactly, then get and read this.
Its all you will ever need to know, and then some. Written in 1944, and still the best book on flying ever written.

http://books.google.com/books?id=CPdDju21zt0C&dq=stick+and+rudder&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=0cBNL4CDi0&sig=qBasekcdgHk1XBSfSR40YK3W9iU&hl=en&ei=8D1ySojVKobWtgOnz9DGCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=&f=false

hungryjoe56
07-31-2009, 03:02 AM
Thank you Keith Wilson, Madwebtvscientist, Rolling Thunder, Sabrehawk: You guys have inspired me. I just finished a workover on what's left of my J-3. Before I try it again, I'm looking for a powered glider. I've also noticed when my plane starts to auger-in that I instinctively give it more of what it does not need! And on take-off when my plane starts to wander off line, I give exactly the wrong command. I think I'll try reversing some of the connections. Have to go to my brother's 80th birthday, but I'll be back flying in 10 days.

Sabrehawk
07-31-2009, 03:29 AM
Hehe yeah, and the connections that need reversing is the ones in our minds.
This is one of the things brought out strongly in Wolkgangs's book, that the wing is such an odd and strange thing to us, and it's behavior so contrary to common sense. So much so that as Yoda once told Luke "You must unlearn, what you have learned".
And so much of what we have learned is so ingrained, it takes a lot to break it. I like what he said where if he had only two hours to teach someone to fly, he would devote it to making him understand "Angle of Attack", for it is all there is to flying. And once understood, the rest all falls into place.
Once I understood this, I stopped stalling my planes and the unexplained crashes also stopped and the only thing that has brought them down since has been equipment failure of some kind.
And all those crashes of the past, I know what caused all of them......me and my well honed "ground sense". But now I think with "Air sense", and the ground no longer scares me, but welcomes me back.

madwebtvscientist
08-01-2009, 12:59 AM
hungryjoe, your situation is identical to what I experienced in the beginning of my R/C training. I couldn't believe that my neurotic emotional state was literally causing me to apply control inputs opposite of what I wanted and/or just standing there watching my pride and joy fly right into the ground!

My big problem was my insistence on learning to fly in too small of space, and trying to fly too slowly. The stress of my self imposed constraints lead to crashing and emotional trauma that ultimately lead to even more crashing.

In addition to the recommended "training procedure" using a motor powered glider suggested in my last post, I also highly recommend the use of as large a flying space as possible to minimize stress. Another very useful concept for us older eyes guys is to provide a very visible different color on one wing to minimize disorientation when flying at "altitude."

If my past bad decisions that forced me to spend extra time to train/tame my emotional reactions to R/C flying turns out to be useful in your flight training, all that extra frustration I suffered through will have been more that worth it!

So, you now have no choice. FAILURE IS NOT AN OPTION! (<:

madwebtvscientist

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velojet
08-01-2009, 03:01 AM
... I think I'll try reversing some of the connections. ...Oh please don't, hungryjoe, in the case of your elevator stick. Just get into the way of thinking, "I lean back as I'm going up and lean forward as I'm going down." It will soon seem very natural.

And, as with all learned physical skills, you need to talk yourself through them while you're learning, but they soon become instinctive - and that's when the real pleasure begins.

Stick [pun intended] with it!

John V

netjunky
08-10-2009, 03:30 AM
you can use a joystick on fms set aileron 1, elevator 2, and throttle 3 it flys ok but weather it helps with the regular controller i dont know
similar up down left right and might work with orientation

just dont go over the hill or you will be flying under the scenery

netjunky
08-11-2009, 04:07 AM
"I lean back as I'm going up and lean forward as I'm going down." It will soon seem very natural.




John V


what happens when you fall over???

madwebtvscientist
09-22-2009, 07:14 PM
Numbthumbs, I hope this will post. As indicated below I tried and failed once before. Join us on the Spitfire thread for some fun if you can.

RE: Parkzone Supermarine Spitfire Mk11B
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4949251/anchors_9072143/mpage_51/key_/anchor/tm.htm#9072143

Squadron, below is a communiqué response post that is currently being blocked off the next url. If one or more of our unit could go behind enemy lines and deliver the vital information we may be able to hasten the defeat of the enemy. Time is rapidly running out for me so I must avoid direct contact with our forces for days and maybe weeks at a time.

Fire at will!

I wish you well.

Over and out.

How do I fly, exactly? - Page 6 - WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=623121#post623121post623121

[QUOTE=Numbthumbs;623121]
HI Madweb, yes, flying into the sun is dangerous for beginners! Her is a video of what happens when one flies into the sun! I did this with my Trojan here and my Super Cub as well. Always fly with sunglasses, and never directly into the sun. I lost sight of the Trojan for about one second and well...you will see.

Numbthumbs, I AM A CONVERT! Yes, my mother gave me a set of "HD VISION" dark glasses that I had previously dismissed as "sales hype" and WOW! I could not only clearly see my planes in the air while not even realizing that I was wearing them over my regular glasses but enjoy some good sun protection as well.

Yesterday, I flew two (2) WWI planes over a small "two soccer field" size area and decided that this size area was too small for me with these planes under the shifty wind conditions I had to endure. I fell in love with these dark glasses. They might have even played a part in avoiding some near disasters.

I will continue to test these dark glasses and report as opportunity provides.
Hope you are still enjoying the conquest of the air.
madwebtvscientist
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Modeling's rendezvous with destiny will surely be unstoppable when something greater than the narcissistic pleasure of an esoteric chosen few is adopted in modeling.

Numbthumbs
09-22-2009, 07:35 PM
Hehe Madweb,

glad to see the glasses worked out for ya! I am still ripping up the skies, enjoying it more and more, and making my own Depron/Balsa foamies at a feverish rate. Loving every damn minute of it!

May your landings always be good!

madwebtvscientist
09-22-2009, 07:46 PM
Numbthumbs, I hope this will post. As indicated below I tried and failed once before. Join us on the Spitfire thread for some fun if you can.
RE: Parkzone Supermarine Spitfire Mk11B
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4949251/anchors_9072143/mpage_51/key_/anchor/tm.htm#9072143

Squadron, below is a communiqué response post that is currently being blocked off the next url. If one or more of our unit could go behind enemy lines and deliver the vital information we may be able to hasten the defeat of the enemy. Time is rapidly running out for me so I must avoid direct contact with our forces for days and maybe weeks at a time.
Fire at will!
I wish you well.
Over and out.

How do I fly, exactly? - Page 6 - WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=623121#post623121post623121

[QUOTE=Numbthumbs;623121]
HI Madweb, yes, flying into the sun is dangerous for beginners! Her is a video of what happens when one flies into the sun! I did this with my Trojan here and my Super Cub as well. Always fly with sunglasses, and never directly into the sun. I lost sight of the Trojan for about one second and well...you will see.

Numbthumbs, I AM A CONVERT! Yes, my mother gave me a set of "HD VISION" dark glasses that I had previously dismissed as "sales hype" and WOW! I could not only clearly see my planes in the air while not even realizing that I was wearing them over my regular glasses but enjoy some good sun protection as well.

Yesterday, I flew two (2) WWI planes over a small "two soccer field" size area and decided that this size area was too small for me with these planes under the shifty wind conditions I had to endure. I fell in love with these dark glasses. They might have even played a part in avoiding some near disasters.

I will continue to test these dark glasses and report as opportunity provides.
Hope you are still enjoying the conquest of the air.
madwebtvscientist
____________________________________________
Modeling Promoting Bog:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/profile.cfm?section=blog&memid=266748
Modeling's rendezvous with destiny will surely be unstoppable when something greater than the narcissistic pleasure of an esoteric chosen few is adopted in modeling.

madwebtvscientist
09-22-2009, 08:40 PM
This is my second attempt to apologize for the duplicate post that I did not realize had already posted. For some reason I seem to be running into a lot more trouble in my efforts to communicate than usual. Any ideas why this may be happening?
Thank to all of you in advance for sharing any reassuring thoughts you might have.
madwebtvscientist [sm=lol.gif]
[sm=cry_smile.gif]
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http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/profile.cfm?section=blog&memid=266748
Modeling's rendezvous with destiny will surely be unstoppable when something greater than the narcissistic pleasure of an esoteric chosen few is adopted in modeling.

cliffm
09-23-2009, 07:47 PM
Great advise.

hungryjoe56
09-28-2009, 06:32 PM
Just want to thank those of you who gave words of encouragement when I was down having crashed my J-3 cub so many times. I gave up on the J-3 because it was no longer flight worthy. I bought a Super Cub and am very happy with it. (I turned off the ACT.) It seems more durable, and I can keep it on line for take-offs. Now have two straight sucessful take-offs and landings. I know most writers prefer the outrunner brushless electric motors to the gearbox which is in the SC, but IMHO those outrunners do not survive a crashes. The outrunners seem to crack easily, rendering the motors useless. I have three useless motors from my J-3 days. Anyway, thanks for your support, and good luck to you all.

canada94
03-10-2011, 01:18 PM
Hi guys

After reading this, im even more nervous.lol

Keep on flying

Kevin

kevinm
03-10-2011, 03:45 PM
All of what I have provided will help you but when it comes to the fear and frustration of the first flight, this is the one that will make the greatest impact on your first flying experience. Do this wrong and failure is almost assured.

THROWING UP WILL MAKE YOU SICK!

Many, perhaps most of the small electric planes can be hand launched. Many
don't even have landing gear. I take the landing gear off as it tends to grab
in the grass and flip the plane over on landing. I belly land all of mine.

Let's take a look at that hand launch as it can be troublesome for new flyers.

Always launch into the wind. ALWAYS!!!! No exceptions! If the wind is not
blowing into your face, you are facing the wrong way.
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=43 (http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=43)

Motor at FULL throttle. Remember, if you throw-UP, that will make you sick.
You want to send it straight out.

Your plane may actually lose some altitude as it gains speed. As long as the
wings are level and the plane is flat, that is fine. The plane should look
like it just flew past you, not like it is climbing, at least not right away.

Don't pull back on the elevator till it is up to speed. Maybe a TINY bit. It
should start to regain that altitude all on its own as the lift of the wing
kicks in. Until that happens, a big pull back on the elevator is like putting
on the brakes, and it will slow the plane down, the wings will lose lift and
it will stall and likely fall to one side or the other, especially if you
haven't thrown it with the wings level.


Stall?
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=31 (http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=31)

Think of it this way, if you throw the plane up, it is like starting to ride
your bicycle up hill in high gear from a standing start. VERY HARD to do.
Better to start on level ground in a lower gear, get up some speed, then
attack the hill. Same for your plane.

If you throw up, the plane can not gain speed fast enough and the wing will
not get up to minimum flying speed. Getting a firm, flat, wings even throw
takes some work. Send it out like a big dart you are tossing at a board on the
wall.

Try this visualization:

Stand under the goal post of a football or soccer field. With the motor at
full power, throw it straight out so it will fly under the cross bar of the
other goal post.

Under the other goal post? Yes under!

That should give you a nice flat throw! If you are trying to throw it OVER the
goal post, you are tipped up too much. Strong firm, flat throw, not up, or
only slightly up. Those wings need to be flat to gain lift. ( Don't worry,
by time it reaches the other end of the field it will be much higher than
that cross bar, but don't try to throw it over the bar. Let the plane do it.)

This tendency to throw up is a very common mistake that lots of new flyers
make. You will crash and crash and crash and that will just make you sick!

Remember: If you throw-up, it will make you sick!
real good stuff- my hand launches, (as opposed to normal takeoffs), have always been hectic - huge hurry to get away from terror firma - so i havent asked my poor, beloved, no LG, vintage ex- slimer Cox Centurion with a 2208-08 2600kv on 11.1 to fly for me much , (much to my chagrin), its sooooo nice looking flying by- i need to make field time with my mentor to work on nice easy 1/2 + throttle hand launches , instead of the way i was doing- the 2600kv will take it almost vertical from hand , so that was the MO- but skimming the earth (5-6 ft elevation) out of hand is beautifuler - thanks

NJSwede
03-10-2011, 03:46 PM
Hi guys

After reading this, im even more nervous.lol

Keep on flying

Kevin

Don't be nervous. You'll bang up your planes a few times for sure, but it's almost always fixable with glue and tape. You should see my Super Cub! It's a miracle it still flies. It actually flies really well now that I figured out how to set it up, but it looks pretty bad...

After the first few disasters, you'll get the hang of it and you'll have to resort to aerobatics to break your planes. ;) I love every minute of it!

JackM
07-08-2011, 11:54 AM
Great book is 123D Manual available from http://www.rcflightschool.com/Manuals_Page.asp

Usual disclaimer.

Jack

Crumpet46
08-01-2011, 12:13 AM
thanks

Softfx
08-28-2011, 09:17 PM
lotta homework to be done ...

Fishbonez
08-29-2011, 03:46 AM
Trust me when I say. If i can fly you can fly. I have crashed more times than I can count. Like NJ said my SC does not look the same. Been real blast. Just go for and do no get frustrated. Life is to short for that besides its a hobby it is suposed to be fun so have some fun
Fish

1geo1
07-30-2013, 07:13 PM
O.K.- Just some thought for anyone who HAS to learn to fly alone like I did
( did not "have" to- just hard headed )
1- wind is BAD 2- too little input is usually better than a lot. 3- buy extra parts and planes. 4-a "CHAOS" 60- is not a beginners plane 5- and my best (IMHO) at first always hold the transmitter with top( antenae) IN LINE with the plane( at 1st )- if u are coming toward yourself- inputs reversed- just keep anten. in-line- no reversal. yes, u might look like a noob at first, but if you are learning alone who cares, It works.

madwebtvscientist
08-01-2013, 08:46 PM
Dear everybody,

The title of this post says it all. With all of the different good ways there are to learn to fly today everybody here with the burning desire to fly will surely be fulfilled. My overwhelming preference for learning to fly almost any model, etc. is computer flight sims. During unflyable weather I enjoy "flying" full scale airplanes and being reminded of how much better my models fly than ponderous full scale flying machines.

As I'm sure you all are very well aware, the world is changing at breath taking speed. Modelers have a very unique opportunity to influence events like never before in history. Please Google < madthorium > to see what is causing "Future Shock" all over the world to see how our irresistible aircraft are on the right side of history.

Breaking off the attack now.

Out.

:tc:

Rockin Robbins
08-01-2013, 09:43 PM
\ Please Google < madthorium > to see what is causing "Future Shock" all over the world to see how our irresistible aircraft are on the right side of history.
Not much there really. Mostly two year old stuff. Make that up to four year old stuff, almost all of it between 2009 and 2011. If there was anything to it the world would have been transformed by now!:D Looks like the future of the past to me.

pizzano
08-02-2013, 12:24 AM
"As I'm sure you all are very well aware, the world is changing at breath taking speed. Modelers have a very unique opportunity to influence events like never before in history. Please Google < madthorium > to see what is causing "Future Shock" all over the world to see how our irresistible aircraft are on the right side of history."

Excuse my ignorance, but after having read through the majority of the previous threads on this topic (some very informative but not earth shattering advice) , I fail to see how or where any "future shock" applies here.....maybe it was those sunglasses the OP was looking through at a time of enlightenment, that gave him this vision!.....I'll keep my bi-focals primed for the next revelation.....:D

1geo1
08-02-2013, 12:37 AM
Well my two cents... Come back to this after 20yrs- there is some shock.
Just unpacked my new ( granted- entry level) computer radio, TRIED to read whole
manual first and thought " why did I give my old futaba 4-ch- 72 mhz away"
Next it was "foam" aircraft- WTH ? Much reading later, "why did I not think of that ?"
" how much are servos now ? " On the other hand that 7 cylinder radial engine for
glow( i assume that's "nitro" now) is still ONLY 3,500 USD -LOL, still, the basic principles Are the same, thank goodness right ?

velojet
08-02-2013, 02:37 AM
Not much there really. Mostly two year old stuff. Make that up to four year old stuff, almost all of it between 2009 and 2011. If there was anything to it the world would have been transformed by now! Looks like the future of the past to me.
Amen. Just a blind alley with the blind leading the blind.