HERE I AM!!!! Uber-fast 40+ Wings Video.

[DIALED/CHUCK]

What can I say...but it is great to be here! I was surpsied to already see a Wing/Delta forum...Too Cool!

Here are some of the smokin wings that Chris Klick, Rich Lane, and I were flying in September up at NEAT FAIR....

Quick Q&A:

-Featured are the Demon and TL-42 (40+ inches long each)....
-Both are easily doing 130+ (actually the Demon broke 150 in a dive more than once!)
-Both are 4s powered with 5200mAh's of Lipo juice at their disposal.

Click the X to view the WMV video. (http://chuckandjenna.com/soup/wingbed.wmv)

Again, guys, great to be here...just found out about the site and I am pretty stoked.

The adrenaline continues....

--C

[watt_the?!]

Welcome to the forum mate!

Some fast birds there!

i got the demon via doppler at 118mph and 121 mph.

the others are between as low as 80mph and up to 105mph.

did you record your runs using a radar gun?

because obviously my data depends on the plane going towards, then past the microphone, so at some point they may max out at higher than the average speed, which is what i get, from about 5 seconds.

Tim.

[DIALED/CHUCK]

Hey Watt,

Those passes were the best that I picked up on the DV cam...the lighting was horrible and I left my overcast lens here in VB. The numbers on those passes might be close...but again, I did not have the radar on at that point...I was filming like mad when we got good light.

The speed on one of CK's other wings with the same foil (but 20 inches longer) was GPS'd at 163...course, in a dive, not level.

At NEAT we did bring the bushnell but did not have to take it out...I was standing next to a guy who was 'bushnelling' with his gun on site and he was getting 130+... but with no pictures...there is no way to be exact. I certainly heard "that was 142" on one pass from about 200 feet up that was straght down and across the field into a 5-10 knot wind....

Mind you....I dont fly that fast...I get scared!

Quick sidebar....

Which doppler are you using?

I'll get off topic for a second here:

I have had similar issues using doppler on recorded material. (I started out in broadcast as a recording geek).

A 120+ on a bushnell was showing dopplers of 140+ off a pair of Genelec (high end) monitors. Depends on the sound-card, angle of mic (as you said), if the mic was moving with the source (as it was in the video...can slow down a reading on some dopplers). Factoring in my aforementioned hoo-hah, the quality of sample can play a big factor, too. This audio was sampled at 12k realtime (very low quality) and then rendered at 32k codec which can add all kinds of interference. The most accurate doppler readings (for digital) are from an ADAT or CPU recording at 96K A good way to calibrate dopplers is to get a bushnell or other radar reading and then position the doppler until the reading is +/- no more than 1. Even so...its one of those fussy things where you have to use the same souce, angle, and recording device to keep it simpatico. Like I said, I am a former recording geek (still do it for a business...but more into marketing and broadcast now).


Could you do me a favor?
I will shoot you a link to my server....I have some vid (off topic) that if you get a second, I would like your read on it...

Talk soon.

--C

[DIALED/CHUCK]

Hey Watt,

Plus...I just realized this...There is music behind the recording...the music was produced by me and has a sample of a Mega in the studio behind it; I made an instrument of a 16/15/4! LOL. Like I said...I can be a geek! :)

--C

[watt_the?!]

send the link...no problems.... would love to know how these things affect the readings. mind you, the pitch speeds for your setup suggest speeds of very close to the readings i got.

Tim.

[DIALED/CHUCK]

Which motor setups that I gave you presented those readings?

The Demon (chris's plane) was running a HETRC 4T on 4s5200Mah (10-12c not 20 C :) ) Polys....not the 16/25 app I sent you in the PM on that other plane.

A GPS was a pretty accurate. Unless of course, you get pulled over by the police...then I claim the batteries must be getting low. :)

Thanks for being so cool with all of this.

--C

[watt_the?!]

Which motor setups that I gave you presented those readings?

The Demon (chris's plane) was running a HETRC 4T on 4s5200Mah (10-12c not 20 C :) ) Polys....not the 16/25 app I sent you in the PM on that other plane.

A GPS was a pretty accurate. Unless of course, you get pulled over by the police...then I claim the batteries must be getting low. :)

Thanks for being so cool with all of this.

--C

hey no probs...but im still getting 85mph for the pitch speed.

and the other one was 16/15/2 i was calculating.

this is what i get:

see if this is what you are getting:
16/15/2 on 3s 3p 2100 approx, on 7x5 prop, 16600rpm, about 80A= 85mph pitch speed.

16/25/2 on 3s3p on 7 x 5 , 80A, 106mph, 22000rpm.

16/15/4 (HET RC 4T) on 4s 2p on 7x5, 45A, 85mph, 17800rpm

mmmm...interesting eh?, remember though that the speeds i take are average between approach and pass, not instantaneous.
they need to be long enough to get a fix on the frequencies, normally about 5 seconds minimum.

[watt_the?!]

checkout the videos here:

http://www.relexaustralia.com.au/rcstuff/

[flypaper 2]

ChuckD:
Saw you at NEAT on Fri. Very impressive. Made my old Zagi look like it was flying backwards:D Wondered when you fellows were test flying these thing, whether you ran into flutter problems and how you fixed it if so.

[DIALED/CHUCK]

Nice Vid, Watt!!!:eek: I WANT THAT F16!!!! pls send it to me as soon as possible!!!! ;)

About those calcs...I'll get CK in touch with you too on those. I was stupified when I put a mega 3 turn on a wing with a calced pitchspeed of 123 and I was cracking 136 with it...I remember sitting there going 'what?'...I have a feeling a few of the calcs may be just a touch off.

Not to say calcs stink...I use them all the time before I slap an app on anything...Mega's calc is the closest for their motors. It is on Megamotorusa's site...but even it has a +/- of 3-10 percent on a few of their motors.

a good cheap and free one is:
http://brantuas.com/ezcalc/dma1.asp and it uses relatively the same method as the commercial calcs....not much room in the mod-ing department though...


ChuckD:
Saw you at NEAT on Fri. Very impressive. Made my old Zagi look like it was flying backwards:D Wondered when you fellows were test flying these thing, whether you ran into flutter problems and how you fixed it if so.
__________________
Gord.


Gord, Were you the guy who gave me ballast? If so...thanks...I just bought 25lbs of it and am ready to reciprocate!

I started on a zagi and they are great wings for the purpose...my problem was I decided to put a mega on there with a 4s and try one of those terminal dive and yanks (I did not know better)...POP...POP....POP....took me three wings and 2 setups to realize it was not my building...it was my NOT reinforcing. They also did not like it when you got them above 105 or so as the pitching and twisting required me to 'really fly it'...

Mine (the TL 40) was maidened there at NEAT...I had one flight before in Roscoe for about 2 minutes and then Iust gave it a go. CK has refined some of the foils even more and he is releasing them at some point through his means. If I had some more venture capital (just bought a house...so for get that idea)...I would totally be all over his endeavors. The amount of tech support and advice he has given me for free over the past 8 mos has been insane. (Hence why I picked them up when they flew from AZ to Philly...put a pop-up rental on the back of my truck...and went to have a great weekend in Downsville...he and Rich are fun, humble giants in my eyes.) Soon as I get out of being house-broke :) I plan on getting them out here a few more times. ...gosh, I am starting to sound like I would 'drink the cool-aide' if he offered. Ha!

--C

[flypaper 2]

Chuck:
Must have been someone else with the ballast, I was just an admiring pedestrian:p Had my old Zagi do that ZAGI FLAP in a dive and just about dropped my transmitter laughing. Got flapping so hard it threw the batt. out. Carbon fibre spar fixed that.

[DIALED/CHUCK]

http://www.chuckandjenna.com/soup/482011

Hello Brothers,

Here is that 'pudding' I promised. This is one of of the pictures after a landing with the 50 inch foil and a Garmin GPS.

Note...this 3 meter GPS does not track vertical and it takes at least 3 meters to get a reading.

This is with that 16/25/2 app: Here is the flight report from the guy who owned it:

<<Hi Chris,

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Your Lightning 50 delivers today nice Mothers Day fast passes.
At a MAX Speeds of over 161 mph at the Little Mountain site in San Bernardino...
... I told you we will push it hard through Southern California air ...
... For now it is 161 mph , but with proper tuning and aerodynamic improvements this wing will have no choice, but go over 180 mph and maybe if we will really push it hard with stronger power plant over 200 mph!? ...

We went today afternoon with few friends to the Speed testing site and we've done it!!! …

Coincidently there was some very nice guy --- Cezar --- who was flying there his Wing Warriors with Multiplex brushless/NiCad's set up.

He has witnessed our crazy speeding. He said, you have taught him how to fly his RC wings last year. He also said, once he saw my Lightning 50 buzzing the mountain site first thing he thought it could be you --- Crazy Fast Chris Klick!!!

He was partially right.

It was your LIGHTNING 50" Wing cutting air in a similar crazy fast style that he's witnessed when he's saw you performing not long ago somewhere along California coast!!!

Congratulations again,

Mark>>


I sent a PM to CK to come in sometime.

I'll have some more when I can dig it up...gotta go mow the lawn here at the beach. It FINALLY stopped raining and I have a 'Red-Neck's' forest out front.

Talk soon,

--C

(chuck, not Chris, here...)

[DIALED/CHUCK]

Watt,

Sorry I missed the call...sent you a PM...looking forward to chatting sometime soon. ...and about that DF f16...I still want one. HAND LAUNCH ON THAT SIZE = some serious 'snot' under the hood, I suspect.

--C

[watt_the?!]

Nice Vid, Watt!!!:eek: I WANT THAT F16!!!! pls send it to me as soon as possible!!!! ;)

.....I was stupified when I put a mega 3 turn on a wing with a calced pitchspeed of 123 and I was cracking 136 with it...I remember sitting there going 'what?'....
--C

herin lies the reason for my handle...watt the?! (the exclamations/question mark are/is mandatory)

always learning. my reliance, as we spoke about , on mcalc has been built up after lotsa good, almost uncanny predictions.

but i too use it as a ballpark, then modify parameters accordingly if RL data is available and apply greater weighting to that.

it is amazing how far off this appears though, and the doppler also.

statistically it could be something like the doppler reading as much as +/- 10% plus the video variables adding another 10% or so and then couple with motocalc.

what prop are you using? We had an issue with that before in motocalc as it doesnt allow greater than certain parameters like thrust/power coeff. Even though we found stuff that wouldve worked out right if we could surpass those numbers...eg. CamProps.

Tim.

Ps , as you now know, and for the benefit of others, the F16 is bungee, its just hard to see...:D

[Klique]

Hey watt chukee said to check this place out and here I am post #1 for me yay!
It was a 6/5.5 E apc.And the wingspan is 50' inches.
Here is a few pix of my new version.With 2 diff motors.Also one pic of me holding a sloper.Look at the size of the motor in the first pik OMG it is huge!
Chris.:)

[watt_the?!]

good lord, you look like me....i thought there was only one of?

i managed to get the nickname ''sheeves'' ala dukes of hazard recently due to it.

enough about me...are you guys speed junkies, or wing junkies?

Tim.

[Klique]

Slope junkies,and speed junkies.Along with few slower electic wings that handle like a dream too.But mostly like to push it farther than we should LoL.It is only money rite?And the adrenalin is well worth it Imho.:p
Ck

[DIALED/CHUCK]

Klique!!!

Glad to see you made it. Thanks for being such a mentor with the wings.

Went out to see a show with the wife and I am afraid that I should not be on the computer right now...

I'll check back in later,

--C

[DIALED/CHUCK]

Back up after a LOOOONNNGGG Night....

Wife and I went to the comedy club and someone else at the table started 'buying'....I had to get on and look to make sure there were no Typos like "Flygn wingz r nown tp...."

I have got a few new cores coming from various vendors...and got a message from Mr. Speed (CK) that I should be expecting a few of his newest cores soon. Have a few pimped-out mods that I am planning to test out in the looks and control department. After all...with the purchase of the new house and my beloved monitoring my cash outlay (for the first time in 5 years...you know how much new houses cost)...I found PayPal to be a trusted friend. :)

Here's how it works...

I had like 12 extra lipos laying around from old Stryker Mods and sold off most of them using paypal. The money was collected and spent "under the radar", so to speak...and I have boxes arriving at the house daily. 3 Wing style slopers and servos, some Monokote, Some Ultra and Econo for trim... She looked at me with the raised eyebrow... "HONEY?"....

"These are I.O.U.'s, babe" I responded. (theoretically, I am not lying...I sold lipos and was owed money...I just reallocated the cash into materials for investment and cultivation of a skill.) Hey, if the lingo works for Corporate Amercia...it works for me.

Out to the field for a day of flight.

--C

[Rugar]

I had like 12 extra lipo laying around from old Stryker Mods and sold off most of them using paypal. The money was collected and spent "under the radar", so to speak...

Out to the field for a day of flight.

--C

And your welcome too! :D

Raining cats and dogs today :mad:. Oh well, maybe next weekend.

Gerald

[watt_the?!]

hmmm..not saying that the gps is wrong, or that your planes arent doing these speeds, but the videos ive seen of 160mph planes look very much faster than yours...

im wondering if you can take the video and record how many body lengths are travelled per unit time, then do a math calc to see how it corresponds.

also, since the gps needs 3m for a reading, what is the accuracy?...i.e. how many times does it update per second, and to what resolution please.

again, just grasping at straws to try and find out how/why your planes exceed pitch speeds.

Tim.

[watt_the?!]

just checked this out, theoretically if you have a spear with a prop on the back of it, you can exceed the pitch speed as there is still some pitch speed and thrust at the equivalent speed when compared to static pitch speed, this is due to unloading i would think.

perhaps mcalc does not model unloading well.

anyways, if it does, you can exceed the static reading by approc 15-20%.

i.e. an 85mph pitch speed can give a spear a flying speed of 100mph.

do you guys have inflight rpm readings and static rpm readings?

that might help also.

Tim.

[DIALED/CHUCK]

Hey Watt,

Just got back in from a day at the field. Sorry I missed your call. The weather was windy...but I needed to get out to fly for a day. It was just what the doctor ordered...adrenaline.

First, let me say this...if it gets too uber-technical, you're going to lose me in aeronautical theory. I understand the plus and minus side of doppler/calcs/gps/and radar on a technology level...but it looks like it is going to be an ultimate stalemate when it comes to theory. Doppler/Calcs say no...Radar/GPS say yes...we have a zero score -2 to +2.

I can say this...when i first heard of Chris' wings after calling the company he was doing work for and asking them for the "fastest most sick wing you have" and being referred to Chris...and him telling me he had a wing that did 160+, I had my initial doubts. But, having been in a similar predicament (as I told you on the phone on another site), I suspended disbelief.

I don't 'get' how the wings go that fast...and I prolly never will. In the video: the shots I put on the tape were the best visual quality of the flying that CK and Rich did...they may very well have some passes only at 120 miles per hour on that field...so that info may very well stand.

I do not get it either how my lighting 36 wing does 135+ with a calced pitchspeed of only 117...I scratch my head to this day on that one.

About in flight prop speed...you'll have to check with CK on that one...I never calced an in-flight prop...

I really wish there was an easier way to make it clear. To put it in the most plain terms "I don't get it either...but I have seen it'.

I'll be around for a while if you want to try and give another holler (on the house line)...I heard the phone ring a few minutes ago and I am guessing it might have been you as the caller ID said 'out of area'. (I need your #)

Talk soon,

--C

[DIALED/CHUCK]

RUGAR,

2 slopers...and you bought my servos!!! LOL!

Good to see you here!

--C

[Rugar]

RUGAR,

2 slopers...and you bought my servos!!! LOL!

Good to see you here!

--C

No, actually I bought a pair of your TP 1900's.

Gerald

[DIALED/CHUCK]

Yes, but the $$ from the lipos bought servos for two of the three slopers.

I now consider you my 'underground connection'.. LOL!

Let me know how they work out and you have the #'s if you ever want to chat. RAINING IN C.A.? Is that not against the law?

--C

[Rugar]

Yes, but the $$ from the lipos bought servos for two of the three slopers.

I now consider you my 'underground connection'.. LOL!

Let me know how they work out and you have the #'s if you ever want to chat. RAINING IN C.A.? Is that not against the law?

--C

Well enjoy my new servos then :rolleyes:. If I wasnt such a tightwad I would have bought you servos for all your slopers :D.

Raining here is rare this time of the year, but must be expected when you have plans. Always something to ruin a flying weekend.

Gerald

[DIALED/CHUCK]

Hey...it was a fair deal...and you werent the guy PMing me asking to give 22.00 for all three of the 1900's with less than 10 flights on them. Hence, why you got em. ....far from tightwad, my friend.

We got home Saturday and there were another 2 boxes on the porch....
"You show me where I spent from..." ...she could not. LOL!

On a quick sidebar....for those who have not yet bought their first home in this inflated market...I don't care how much you make...yer gonna be broke for about six months so start stashing a few hundred weekly in your underwear drawer NOW..... 'comin from a man who knows....:D

--C

[frvrngn]

Off topic - Housing depends on where you live. My new home (bought 3 mos ago) is twice the size of my old one and not much more! Plus my property tax is half on the 2X bigger home. Now the hot spots like Cali and such are just nuts. I dont understand how anyone could purchase a 1000sq ft home for $750K!?!? or more!!! I cant imagine anyone being able to move out there unless they were coming from another hot market like NYC or Vegas.

Back on semi topic - I too use Paypal as my "fun fund". My only problem now is I am running out of stuff to sell to replenish my fun money. I keep looking around asking "do I really need that or can it go on eBay?"

Back on the real topic - I have been following your thread on the other forum for a while now. CK makes some very sick wings. I am still flying a couple "lowly" speed 400 wings and one of these days would like to try a CK with BL setup. I need some more practice first though!

[WingTips24]

Hey Chuck,

Nice video, you got anymore!

Tips

[DIALED/CHUCK]

...oh yes, more are coming... I am finishing up some shooting and wings now that the 'slow season' has hit...

Good to see you here, brother....you need to show the boys here in the builders forum or parkflyers some of your FFF madness...I was truly impressed....

On anothe note: I chuckled as I remember you calling me and asking tons of questions about Strykers and how to 'build them'....now look who's getting all the questions, Tips! Way to go...you are doing some downright cool stuff...when you get time...now I HAVE QUESTIONS FOR YOU!!!
As my first boss told me "the cream always rises"...and tips, you're foamin over the side of the proverbial cup! Rock on brother!

--C

[WingTips24]

...oh yes, more are coming... I am finishing up some shooting and wings now that the 'slow season' has hit...

Good to see you here, brother....you need to show the boys here in the builders forum or parkflyers some of your FFF madness...I was truly impressed....

On anothe note: I chuckled as I remember you calling me and asking tons of questions about Strykers and how to 'build them'....now look who's getting all the questions, Tips! Way to go...you are doing some downright cool stuff...when you get time...now I HAVE QUESTIONS FOR YOU!!!
As my first boss told me "the cream always rises"...and tips, you're foamin over the side of the proverbial cup! Rock on brother!

--C

Thanks man, you know me the questions never stop, I guess maybe I started finally asking some of the right ones.:p I think I will do a JL II build thread in the foamy area, should be fun. Glad to see there will be some more videos, I saw the Mancave one but I did not have sound so I'll play it again when I get home. I should be getting a camera soon so I'll be shootin some video myself in a short while. Can't wait!:D

Tips