Guillow's British SE5 Biplane Kit Conversion

[SaucerGuy]

Being a big fan of the Guillow's kits and vintage style planes in general, I happened accross a really good kit these guys put out. It's lazer cut so is a nice change of pace since you don't have to wrestle the pieces out of the stock. I got a good deal on mine at the LHS, it was only $16.00, they normally retail for $30-35, still well worth it.

This is a rather tough e-flight conversion, there is very, very little room for brushless gear and it does require alot of retrofitting of the stock design to accomodate, but when I'm done, I'll have the pride of my fleet that should be a blast to fly. Here is the gear I'm putting into it:

TP2409_12D (https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2046) brushless motor
HXT10003S (https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2103) Lipo
VS-6 (https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2148) servo's
TP18A_BESC (https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=656) speed controller
GWS 6 channel micro receiver

There are too many revisions I did past the original model's specs to accomodate the gear so I won't bore you with a long list, but will answer any questions you might have should one of you guys decide to do your own, the main element I did change was ditching the dihedral and adding carbon fiber tube to the leading edge of the wings as well as adding internal balsa structural supports to maintain the stock look, yet make it very durable especially since the added gear and power system increases the intertia significantly, " regardless, this will handle a crash guys".

Photo shows where I'm at so far with it, I took quite a few build photo's of it for future reference I may post here to show the succession upon request. Everything is simply placed together, I'll be adding the struts to get the wing placed in the proper area, beefing up all of the landing gear and likely not go with the stock wheels, I have some fat park flyer style ones that should absorb the shock should it have to come in hot due to the weight to wingspan "24" and overall plane size ratio.

All in all, I'm not surprized the British were able to give the Germans a run for their money back in the day, keeping the control surfaces via. to the full scale specs, exept for the rudder, really shows this one as a very nimble bird design wise.

[Dereck]

Was on your side until the bit about ditching the dihedral!

The SE5 / 5A flies great as a model at pretty much any size. For a WW1 fighter, it has lots of good moments, decent tail areas though its UC was a tad far back for comfort. I've read all the books on WW1 aviation I have been able to find over the years, and lots of them talk about SE5's being able to out-dive most of the competition and making a good gun platform, but a lot ended up their landing roll-outs inverted.

One of the things that makes it a good model, from FF to RC with or without ailerons, is that dihedral. It was around five degrees, though one was flown with around half that - all it took was a good rigger and a session in the set-up area.

Hate to throw more water on the parade, but biplanes don't do crashes well. Just too many bits sticking out every way to get wiped off...

The mark of a real scale SE - the UC. It was an ingenious sprung set-up, with axles pivotted in the centre of that cross-beam - that was mostly fairings around the rigid parts that held the axle's inner pivots. You can actually achieve most of it at your scale with a piece of suitably thin wire soldered in the middle of the UC cross member, its outer ends running in scale-like slots in the ends of the V fairings.

Still, good luck with it. If you put enough power in, increase the control areas enough, it should be able to hover :)

D

[SaucerGuy]

Thanks for the advice. I'm building this for performance, the power system is beyond overkill for the airframe so yeah, it will hover nicely. I used to require dihedral in all of my planes, now they are just hindering me since I hate fighting the auto correcting tendacies, which is why I ommitted it.

I picked up a piece of carbon strip stock and am going to use those for the struts which will help strengthen it further, it's really a tank at this point with the many revisions I've put in place, so is already very strong, much stronger then any balsa only creation in the past and I haven't even covered it yet, which adds more strength to it. I'll let you know how it holds up should it do a nose into the ground and we'll see.

I'll look into your reccomendations and see what else can be added for the scale appearance. I also agree with you on it's reputation back in the day, this is going to be a fun one to fly. Also, I probably should have posted this one in the WWI section, I think I'll do a build log there, I have plenty of photo's I took along the way.

[Bill G]

SaucerGuy, I'm outta that other place too.:eek:

I built one of these, and its a good flyer. Actually rises off ground, with a micro Dubro tailwheel, that I made steerable (not the micro steerable assembled one that they sell now).
The build thread is at that other place:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197670&page=3&pp=20&highlight=se5a

Of all my conversions, I think it is one of the best engineered of all. Others I would not reccomend following.:eek: Also is one of my most detailed and cleanly built models. A favorite.

It actually went together quite well, with the motor mounting pretty much just falling into place, with a GWS IPS gearbox and short can feigo. The plane balanced perfectly with the battery in a stock unmodified fuse bay, if I remember correctly. The bottom wing center section is not quite flush with the wing, which was perfect, since it just asked to be made into a removable pin latch access panel. You can make scale oval vent openings in the front fuse bottom, which are perfect for motor/batt/esc venting. Another nice feature of the SE5A, is that the front fuse is paneled, so it will look correct when sheeted with 1/32" balsa, and also will take some abuse.

There's a lot of wing area also, so it flies light at over 7oz, as I know firsthand. It effortlessly rose off ground at low speed and climbed at an amazing rate. Now you know you won't have to put up with those "it's too heavy" folks.:D

All in all, a great plane to convert.

I'll be watching this one.

Bill

[SaucerGuy]

Let me confirm upon what you said aong being outta that place, are you meaning urc?

Be careful using nasal spray in the dark.
It may be your CA bottle!

I totaly love that signature you have in another forum, I'm still chuckling over it.

[Bill G]

Let me confirm upon what you said aong being outta that place, are you meaning urc?

Be careful using nasal spray in the dark.
It may be your CA bottle!

I totaly love that signature you have in another forum, I'm still chuckling over it.
RCG:eek:

[SaucerGuy]

Your plane looks really nice BTW. I'm glad both of us found a place to hang out, these guys at wattflyer seem to be more mature then the other place.

[SaucerGuy]

I contributed to the WWI section with the build, so far, nobody has responded, it's kinda mute at this point, I think it should be under the Vintage area rather then Warbirds !!!

I'm going to duplicate the uploads here just to make it easy on you all, the build obviously should be here even though it's not as I know now, technically an Old Timer kit/plane, but it will eventually become one, especially with the WWI model it's crafted after.

Input is welcomed gentlemen, I very much love these early warbirds, they are in fact more complex to build then modern designs so hold extra merit, skill wise to construct so my hats off to anybody that purues them. That said, let the Old Timer section show, we are really behind the builder and can show Old School is alive and well. !!!

[smokejohnson]

You do great work SaucerGuy, can't wait to see the finished product.

[SaucerGuy]

I've been taking it out at the end of the day to do little odds and ends on it so I have everything 100% addressed prior to covering it. The ailerons, per the plans with the dotted lines are the only oddball areas that are going to require a little more thought, they taper downwards on the end, but I need them to be level for proper hinge area. I might revise the plans a bit and close that area off on the very tips so that there is a clean, unbroken up wing surface.

Seeing the stuka kit got shown inadvertantly there, I might as well show you how that one came out meanwhile.

[smokejohnson]

Gotta love the teeth! :ws:

[SaucerGuy]

I call it the Stuka Shark, those teeth give it some personality.

[Bill G]

:D The CF spars are always a good idea. The SE5A has a lot of wing, so the weight is not so critical. I added the flying wires to mine, which greatly add strength. I also added individual eyelets to route the control line string through. (Us Guillows guys have tons of that stuff:D) It turned out to be a good thing, as I ended up tying off the wires individually, to set the washout and incidence angles.

Stuka looks good. I bought the little one for the plan, with the hopes of enlarging it and building one like Phil (Smokin Beaver's) version. I got a real kick out of the look of the teeth on your Stuka.

Bill

[SaucerGuy]

I'm trying for a nuetral position for the washout and incidence, glad the wires are there to correct anything should I need them to do so later on if it refuses to fly, the wings are already very strong as is, and again, glad the wires are there to make them even stronger. I know, it's not the traditional way to go, well, until I go inverted then those two elements will be in my way, I just want to give it minor down trim while it's flying inverted since that will be necessary due to the airfoil, otherwise if it only wanted to fly right side up, I'll get bored with it and it will collect dust. My slow flyer the 108, is what I'll be flying for those lazy day's, or if I ever get a video camera to mount onto it.

I'll be making more progress photo's tonight, nothing hugely dramatic has been put in place, I just want to make sure the next builder has a clear reference to go off of when they make their own in a similar manner. I'm getting really close to the covering stage and that's another reason to take extra photo's, I'm going to use opaque covering and am not even going to drag the servo wires through the center of the wing, there simple is not enough space to do it properly without losing too much strength in the ribs so will be pinning them to the underside of the wing. This will also make it super easy to switch out servo's for the aileron's, of which are going to be hinged from the bottom so breaking a bit from the norm here as well. And as you mentioned in another build, there is alot of time you just are sitting there, looking at the thing trying to figure out how to go about the next revision in the most tactful way, future generations won't have to deal with that element as much as long as they have access to this build log.

[Bill G]

I never really thought about flying it inverted.:eek: I fly my Wattage Sopwith inverted and its hillarious.:D
With rudder only, it flys well. The first thing that scared me was that it would seem to want to roll on turns, but I quickly realized that it would only go so far, and was very controllable with a bit of elevator added in the turns. A pretty stable plane, but probably a bit more responsive than needed. I'll have to get my cg point for you. It was a bit of a climber/tail dragger in flight, and probably still needed the cg to be moved forward about 1-2mm.

Ailerons do make a smoother flying plane, but it does fly well with rudder/elevator. I've never bothered with ailerons on micros, since it adds to the complexity and weight of the plane. If you really want them then I'd say go for it, but it will do well without them. If anything, I think the scale factor makes ailerons more appealing to me than the performance factor.


Bill

[SaucerGuy]

The cg point would be helpful, there was simply no room for play in that area so it's likely going to be nose heavy regardless. I prefer super tight response from my planes so I just barely breath on the controls and it responds instantly. The drawback is if it's out of trim, it will be radically out of whack, but the plus side, I can usually make up for it with the TX adjustment alone.

The rudder is fixed, at least for now, so I have to use the ailerons and the servo bays were quite a task to engineer since there isn't enough room in the wing itself to stuff them in, in a traditional manner. I'm getting close to the final sanding and covering. The next revisions are going to address the landing gear system, and I may make the struts out of carbon fiber stock and have them bolted to some basswood stock, of which I already have a set created, so only need to cut them down.

[E-Challenged]

Converting Guillows kits to micro electric R/C is good training for building larger scale models ( AerodraomeRC, Peter Rake, Pat Tritle, etc) that have been designed to fly well. If Guillows would put their mind to designing somewhat larger EP scale models, based on current motors and battery packs, it would benefit us all. I converted the Guillow PT-17 bipe in the round cell, geared 280 , days, too heavy, tip stalled like crazy. When I converted to Medusa 12mm brushless in GWS DXA gearbox and 400mah 3S lipo, 7x4 GWS SF prop, it became a *****cat. Had to mount the pack protruding from firewall to get balance right and use modelling clay in nose. I gave up on single servo and flex cable for ailerons, wouldn't center properly. Plane ROG'd and flew great with dihedral in both wings , rudder and elevator control with steerable tail wheel.

[SaucerGuy]

I literally chatted on the phone with the VP of Guillow's, they aren't really geared towards what you and I are thinking of when it comes to their kits, or business for that matter, I guess they just are stubborn to move forward, yet this one is showing promise in that area since it's lazer cut. I guess it's some overly conservative, don't rock the boat clause that's held high in their corporate structure or something.

I'm showing a few more photo's since I move onto finish sanding and covering it next, I haven't assembled the landing gear yet fully, I want the wings mounted prior to doing so, so that I have the alignment perfect. I'm showing the key areas that future builders are going to have to address on this conversion done with ailerons in a more traditional manner, I hope they take note on the fuse, there is a series of internal support struts in place that really tie in all of the formers and help to reinforce the key areas that are going to take the most abuse in a crash, this makes the base uncoverd fuselage strong on it's own regardless.

I didn't take any photo's of the tail gear, just bend and glue a wire around the stock set up if you are going to add a tail wheel there, otherwise, epoxy coat the stock skid prior to covering it after it's attached to the fuse and call it good. You'll see photo's of it covered afterwards regardless, it's just adding a few extra pieces of covering to the equasion going the route I am with it.

[SaucerGuy]

I'm used to paper, then along the plastics, Ultracoat, I just used Solite Microlite on a foamie with good results, but it's a flying wing so not alot of challenge there, I used it on the wing and tail feathers on this one, it is delicate to handle and I found out you have to really stretch it to make it work correctly. The monocoat I had the majority of a roll from when I bought it to fix an ARF that is transparent yellow, needless to say, not my best choice for a covering and this job shows it, I still consider Ultracoat to be the best all around alternative, yet if weight if an issue, the Microlite may be the way to go, just be very, very gentle on the stuff and tactfully stretch it as hard as you can when ever possible.

The tail feathers, I was thinking Ultracoat so burned through a few spots which were easily patched up. The monocoat, the same thing, yet I applied alot more heat to, I mean, "ALOT" and it pulled against where I patched together the pieces of the fuse, I'll baby it before hand much more if I use it on another stick build. It's actually quite strong so is adding to the strength of the fuse which is the only reason I'm leaving it in tact, otherwise, I'd yank it, it's simply not up to my own personal standards.

The wings came out will with the Microlite, I tested the top section by keeping things lax along pulling in the slack area to test just how far this stuff can shrink, needless to say, it goes on and on in that area, just don't get impatient with it. The lower area, I pulled hard on and didn't even need the heat gun to shink out the wrinkles. Given a little more practice, I would have zero wrinkles to begin with. It's good material to work with, just takes a more delicate approach. I like the fact that it's not adding a whole lot to the weight equasion, just hope it's not trading off durability field wise.

[SaucerGuy]

Ok, so I got the hang of Monocoat, luckily was able to do so on the first roll. Apparantly, you don't rely upon it to shrink at all compared to ultracoat or solite, it's advantage being extra thick is that it's easier to handle and trim. I yanked the solite from the lower wing because I stuck it onto the fuse crooked, so had to remove it, the solite was really easy to remove, so it has advantages in that area as well and covered it with the Monocoat instead, it's durability should pay off should it have to endure rough treatment "likely" out in the field.

I've just been tinkering away with this build, not trying to get it all done at once so it's taking alot longer then what I normally do and it's not like I don't have other planes to fly, so am not worried about it. Getting really close to final assembly regardless and I picked up a set of very small swivles from the fishing tackle isle I'll be modifying into tie down spots for when I feed in the stringers.

I'll get new photo's of the progress the next time I take it out, hopefully this time, with the wings finally joined together and mounted onto the fuse.

[pd1]

The build looks very nice, looking forward to more pictures.

[SaucerGuy]

I made the mistake by not putting it up after working on it, my cat, Apricot, opted to chew on the tail fin. He did a decent amount of damage to it so I opted to use it as a template and cut out a solid piece of balsa stock to replace it, covering it with Monocoat and imbedding a piece of thin basswood for structure to counter the grain tendacy.

I can use the now damaged piece to make replacements in the future if need be, just not happy with kitty for doing that. I'm showing it's present status, I didn't have the time to join the wings together and onto the fuse due to the cat-astrophy, but as you can see, still coming right along.

[smokejohnson]

It's looking great Brian. I have a scratch built Wasp from AMA plans that I started a long time ago that I never finished. Watching this build is going to motivate me to finish it. That is after I get some more stick time on foam.;-)

[SaucerGuy]

I wish you luck on your build, I've put this one away, only to come back later and ponder what's going on next with it, so progress has been slow. Just a little bit at a time and eventually it's coming together.

Now, time for the struts, and I gotta get it right the first time since there is no going back once they are in place and I'm going with a nuetral angle of attack on both wings to make inverted flight doable without having to add down elevator. Once that element is addressed, everything else should be easy to finish up. I'm ditching the landing gear for now, I may put on some removable gear, but my favorite field has rough cut grass, so they will get in the way and this is supposed to be my regular flyer. Also, getting a little antsy about finishing it up so I can fly her.

[smokejohnson]

I'm going with a nuetral angle of attack on both wings to make inverted flight doable without having to add down elevator.


That's what I'm talking about. Little things like this that I don't know is why I think my scratch builds are so much trial and error. Thanks again for all the great info.

[SaucerGuy]

I error plenty, the mistakes have taught me more then the successes believe it or not. Keep making them, they will get you thinking more along what to plan for ahead of time. This is one of the reasons I took so long to cover it, I didn't want to leave something out, regardless, don't get too married to the fuse covering on this one, absolutely my worst all time job on it, I'm waiting on it flying correctly before prettying it up.

Meanwhile, post what you are working on in a new thread topic, I'll do my best to help you along completion, just don't blame me if a suggestion doesn't work, I have not done any AMA plan based projects yet.

[Bill G]

I error plenty, the mistakes have taught me more then the successes believe it or not. Keep making them, they will get you thinking more along what to plan for ahead of time. This is one of the reasons I took so long to cover it, I didn't want to leave something out, regardless, don't get too married to the fuse covering on this one, absolutely my worst all time job on it, I'm waiting on it flying correctly before prettying it up.

Meanwhile, post what you are working on in a new thread topic, I'll do my best to help you along completion, just don't blame me if a suggestion doesn't work, I have not done any AMA plan based projects yet.

That's what micros are all about. I howl at the stuff I tried to pull off, on some of my first micros. I'm hoping all those lessons will result in my new Cox 190 staying a nice looking, epoxy repair void plane, from lessons learned on the FlyZone 109.::o

Guess I better do what I said. I keep forgetting to take the batt upstairs to check the SE5A CG point. The problem has been that its not in the hobby room, so I think about doing it, and then forget, since I'm too lazy to take the walk upstairs whenenver it comes to mind. This evening it came to mind, so I took the batt out of the box, and went up there before I forgot.:eek: Mine flew well and responsively with the CG at 15mm back from the LE of the bottom wing. I have about 1 degree of both right and downthrust set in the prop. It probably would be a good thing to point the front of the elevator up about a degree from the Guillows setting, to reduce some of the speed induced pitch up. No lack of climb on this plane. It was up a good 100 feet so fast after ROG, that it gave me plenty of time to get the hang of it. I'd do the steerable tailwheel mod with a Dubro 3/8" micro tailwheel. ROG was nice, and this plane is too nice to hand toss.:eek:

Hey, I just noticed you're online now.

Bill

[SaucerGuy]

Thanks for the COG reference point and other tips, it's saving me from trial and error in that area, which is pretty common with new builds. I still haven't made the ailerons, it's kind of a puzzle where I can think of two different ways of building them that I should have thought about prior to modifying the wings to accomodate them, I was following the Guillow's plan and they only had dotted lines for those areas that were extened to the end of the wing tips, but they should have stopped on the edge of the tips due to the taper, but looking at the profile, something has to give somewhere to make them work correctly, the bevel on the leading edge of them being in place, yet having to round down the tips past it makes for an impossible combination, you get one or the other, not both.

The problem with ROG's, the field I fly at most of the time has tall grass, the ones that I can do rolling take offs are normally occupied and I found people in general, not using common sense when I'm out there flying, just walking out to the middle of the field below the plane which makes me really uneasy, you just never know what can go wrong so I'm not willing to take that chance and it's rare to be able to go through an entire pack at once in those areas. Luckily the monocoat surfaces are going to be the only thing contacting the grass, which is durable, and I did build it tank style so it should be able to handle some abuse should the landing be less then optimal. I do have another biplane arf that I've flown out there without the landing gear and it fared well, so will likely keep it ommitted.

[Bill G]

One nice thing about a bipe like this is that it can be landed pretty slowly. I took advantage of the breeze that picked up during the flight, and landed into it. The plane was almost at a standstill on touchdown, so it just tipped over in the grass with no damage. I took off from the paved park road.

If you haven't done the ailerons yet, you could still consider rudder, since it is very controllable that way. Ailerons would be cool, but a lot more work for a plane this size.

Bill

[SaucerGuy]

I was hoping for slow upon landing, that's why I left the airfoil in tact, it's packing around alot of weight with the battery pack I'm using so was hoping to use the lift produced from them for that purpose alone. I've already engineered and installed the servo's for the ailerons and made no accomodations for rudder control so there is no turning back now on that element.

[SaucerGuy]

I started this build in January, it's now mid June and it's still being worked upon, this is the "Old Timer" perspective, it doesn't have to get done quickly, just correctly.

I'm pushing it towards performance, but it's still in the same context as Old Timer world yet has merit for future generations that want more performance out of an old bird, yet retain the stock look.

I have built a few planes between this one, I'm very close to completion on it to show all of them up now and one of the reasons it has taken this long as well... :) :) :)

I'll show photo's before the maiden, just wanted to let you all know, I have not abandoned it, just taking an Old Timers pace at it all, it's going to whip you youngens back in shape showing us old farts can build and fly with the best of you. :) :) :)

Happy landings, Brian

[SaucerGuy]

After joining the wings and tail feathers, this one is coming to form now, I kept the stock angle on the uipper wing "incidence" correct, will hope this one is a floater at low speed in spite of the fact, it's nose heavy.

I opted to build on this one tonight since my microjet with all of my gear is spending the night on top of the roof of a Local Highschool because I got too impatient and opted for the closest field. Learn from my mistakes, if you are building at the gun to get some flight time before the sun sets, relax, give it another day or you'll look like an idiot as I will tomorrow to yank my plane off of a roof, hehe. :)

Photo's show this bad boy coming together, it's not going to be a slow flyer by any means, just hoping for some form of gentle landing control that's not utterly hot regardless.

The ailerons, I rounded both ends and gave them a little gap, the combo worked in that area and I was able to sand down the wingtips to conform to this particular scale. Keep this in mind if you want to do your own kit based e-conversion on this particular one.

[smokejohnson]

It's looking great Brian. Looking forward to seeing a flight report. Any idea on an AUW?

[SaucerGuy]

I managed to get the jet off of the roof, had to use a ladder stacked on top of a table to be able to climb up on to it. I'm glad I was able to retreive it before the ominous clouds overhead started a downpour. It's still fixable, can't wait to take it up again, this time in the regular, much larger field I normally fly at. Needless to say, even with that short of a flight, I'm more then impressed, I plan upon making more in house since it's discontinued. Amazing what a plane design can do for enhanced performance, that same gear worked well in other planes, but this really was a good match for this one, I'm glad I yanked it from the rafters and put it back in commission.

On the sae 5, since I didn't bolt the struts in place, they made a solid connection and in fact, it's alot stronger then I thought it would be, adding the wires is going to be done for scale appearance alone since the structure doesn't really need it, the basswood was a good choice for those over balsa as well. Along the ailerons for your's, let me know if you want me to take a photo of how I did mine, it's a lower tech way of doing it as far as routing the leads, but there is more work involved with the mounting plate, I did this partially to reduce the profile but mainly so I can switch out servo's more easily. The esc will be fed from the cockpit since there simply was not enough room to feed it in from the front, if was a tiny brushed one, I could get away with either direction, but it's not.

[smokejohnson]

That would be great if you could put up a picture of how you routed the leads. I wish I would have thought about dual servos before I skinned the middle of my wing, oh well.

[SaucerGuy]

Just want to show, nothing competitive on any level......

[alienx]

Looks great! That prop is a monster. Good luck on the maiden.

[SaucerGuy]

I stuffed the gear in it last night, hooked up the upper ailerons and elevator, I'm getting radical throws with it so it's going to give me the control I'll need. It's really nose heavy so now I'm debating if I should just fly it rocket style, or add some weight to the aft section to get the cog set up better. I'm also debating if I should connect the lower ailerons and take it on it's maiden as is, finishing up the rest of the details after the fact since if it does crash, it will be alot harder to repair with all of those in tact.

It's nice to power it up, seeing it come to life like this really motivates me to take it up now. I'll see if I have a smaller prop, the current one maximizes the thrust ratio, of which, is overkill for this size of a plane. If I can get it flying, it's going to be a blast, I love overpowered planes.

[Bill G]

Saucerguy, the plane should slow just fine. I had a headwind breeze, and was almost able to stop it completely, at 7oz. The bipes will flare and slow down real nicely at the last second, as long as its not done too early.::o
Is that an authentic WWI British scheme?:D

Smokejohnson, cut that center wing panel open and make an access panel, and then you can do whatever you want in there. This plane is just asking for a removable wing pan. It uses L-brackets in the rear, and a slide latch in the front.

Bill

[SaucerGuy]

Bill, this is the reason I'm posting this build in the old timers section, it's not necessarily now a vintage, old timer plane, but it's done in a manner you old timers can apprieciate, being, it's done a little at a time, no rush at all and it's been many months since this one was formally started. Also, the experience and input you guys give, especially from an old timer is better then gold. I really look up to you guys as being pioneers and in many cases, us along the next generations are just reinventing the wheel, and I'm sure other readers as well are learning from all of your input and I've been surprized on many occasions as to your "old timers" ability to produce solutions to any build project should an obstical come up against us next generation builders.

It's ready to technically maiden now, everything else I add on, barring having to fix something in a crash will be purely asthetic at this point. I'm holding back from going that route entirely because I have the plans on hand, I may do a 3 channel tail feather controlled bird next, but that will be done once I enlarge the plans, and even then, may still go back to aileron control due to the fact, it will be much easier to deal with gear wise, perhaps will have it set up to do both at that point.

This has been one fun build regardless, wish me luck on the maiden, it's ready to go now and I'll likely take it out today/tomorrow depending upon which side of the globe you are on time frame wise. The new prop keeps it scale looking, and in fact, delivers plenty of power for normal flight, I'm going to maiden with it due to that, what's cool, I can just change props for a huge performance boost after the fact, previous photo's show that one. I hollowed out the intake/front grid on the cowl and filled it in with some scrap window screen material, it looks cool going that route and is quite practical since it's taking in the oncoming air to cool the esc and motor.

[SaucerGuy]

I took her up, blasted it at full speed and put in a hefty amount of up elevator trim. She went up immediately, did an unexpected loop, and I trimmed it down, and slowed it down. It fly's perfectly, I should have brought the camera. I took it down, she landed at my feet very slowly, you are right Bill, this one can fly very slowly even though I have the gear overkilled. The COG didn't feel like it needed any adjustment at all, so I'm happy to not have to revise it in this area.

On the second flight, I didn't give it enough power so it crashed, tearning some of the monocoat in the front of the fuse and the struts gave way. I'm now going to attempt to remove the monocoat from the fuse itself and replace it with some blue clear Ultracoat I have on hand since this one has proven to me that it deserves extra TLC, making this something I'll be proud to show off and will keep it around for a long time. The rigging and decals will be put in place on it as well before I take it up again. I'm just thrilled that it's such a good flyer, it's nice to have my hard work pay off this way.

[smokejohnson]

Congratulations Brian on another successful build. Good job.

[SaucerGuy]

I just finished yanking off the original covering on the fuse, have put in the Ultracoat in it's place, man o man, it's now looking much better, and in fact, took fewer pieces to cover it with.

I won't feel so insecure about showing this one off in person, much less photo wise now. I'm proceeding forward now with putting it all back together to get it flight ready and be able to add onto it between flights, it's a unique way of building since I have planes I fly and was only able to doodle on them after the fact in the past with no general direction. I have a family reunion Friday which is one of the reasons I want to make sure it's flight ready for that occassion.

I keep referencing to yesterdays maiden and think, I rarely smile, but I was grinning the whole time while this was up in the air, this sais alot. :)

SJ, how is your build coming along, I haven't received any notifications along progress for it lately?

[smokejohnson]

I gave my YardStik a new power system and have been busy flying it. I'm still debating on a power system. All I have been using are the Tower Pro bell motors and I think I'm ready to move on in that category. They're ok but I know there's a lot better out there.

[Bill G]

Congratulations on the flight. I guess you found how well it climbs, when it looped. I was amazed at how quickly it gained 100 feet or so.
I took flight pics of mine, but they turned out pretty small,:D with this small plane.

Bill

[SaucerGuy]

Smoke, I found out it's not as much the gear as much as the plane design itself that makes the difference. I put my little cheap TP bell motor and even a weak 1000 mah lipo pack into my microjet and it's so darn fast, it's going to be one that I have to actually get used to performance wise which is a really good thing I've been looking for, for a while, so don't knock going that direction if that's what you are going for. IE. get another plane design itself for those primal needs we all have, hehe. :) The original set up with that jet by default was horrible so the body collected plenty of dust before I re-outfitted it.

Bill, I'll get some flight pics on this for you soon, it's so docile when you power it down, yet a real acrobat powered up, I'm just digging the fact it can do both and keeping the scale size prop on it to boot really makes it look just like a shrinked down full version SAE5, well, at least one they wished they had in WWI.

I rebuilt the outer wing struts, this time with more precision and out of light ply stock and made revisions to their mounting sections to provide a much better fit. It's more precise of a set up now and I pulled out some stock from the battery tray to allow for being able to stuff in the esc/motor connections better. I glued in the struts using a combo of CA and Sumo Glue, the CA just holds it in place while the Sumo Glue does it's thing, needless to say, they aren't going anywhere.

I guess this one is a first along using ailerons from the guillow's kit, at least documented online, it definoutly is the most recovered build to date. Photo's shows the latest in this area.

[SaucerGuy]

Just wanted to show you how far I'm taking it, rigging is just getting started, it's not stopping me to take this one out.

[alienx]

The plane looks great! Nice job on the covering.

[Bill G]

Just got this month's Flying Models in the mail. They have a Guillows SE5A conversion article.
I think its a butcher job!:Q

They mounted all the components on a plate, including the motor, and inserted it into the fuse, kindof like a fuse crutch.

I found that the IPS geared setup fit so easily into the stock Guillows fuse formers, that it only required a tiny bit of cutting, as if it was made to go in there.

The SE5A has a wing pan, underneath the wing. It just asks to be made into a removable cover for access.

They put the servos in the cocpit area. I like my Guillows pilot in there better.:D

The battery opening is cut into the pretty cowl.:eek:
Sure, Guillows got the rad lines going in the wrong direction, but that's not a reason to hack it. I found the battery went in perfectly right in front of the wing, with a small cover, and balanced well there too. Still room in front under the fuse, to cut out the scale cooling vents that the full size plane has.

All in all SaucerGuy, either of our builds would have been much better builds for them to feature, for this conversion article.

Bill

[SaucerGuy]

I'm deleting 3 paragraphs I just wrote knowing, that magazine is trolling these threads looking for ideas, that or can't figure out the Se has simply been mainstream this year, last year it was the Camel, next is what you and I say it is and the DR line has been done to death.

I want to say, my intentions to build the next will be

[SaucerGuy]

I just got a negative rep point for this thread, also on another, did I do something wrong?

[Bill G]

I just got a negative rep point for this thread, also on another, did I do something wrong?
There should be no NEGATIVE POINTS. Only Positive. Either way, I don't think any of it makes that much sense, because we all eventually have to decide for ourselves, who the meaningful posters are.

I once got a negative point for this:
A guy called me on a setup, telling me I was full of crap. I wasn't.

Then, his buddy stepped in to jump on me. I guess he wanted to rule "All threads of that plane."

I told him what I thought, and got a negative point.

I then went to his thread for the same plane, made a little crack, and got in trouble.

This is nonsense.
I THINK WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO CALL FOLKS ON FALSELY GIVEN POINTS WITH THE ADMIN.
If they can't defend it properly, then their point posting abilty should be taken away.

Bill

[SaucerGuy]

It's that ehobby character that's doing it, apparently he's allowed to break the rules, abuse the system and has problems when his business dealings are brought to the surface here. I'm thankful someone posted a thread in regards to him, I am now enlightened. If I get any more negatives from him, I'm starting a thread with a poll to vote upon if he should be allowed to stay here and hopefully, the mod's will take note and we'll be done with him and his games once and for all. People like that are what us Watt flyer members strive so hard to avoid in the first place and don't want to be brought down due to some undesirable's childish games. Let him go back to RCG, we don't want him here, bottom line................

I also agree when it comes down to differences in opinions, or facts themselves, if you can't fully back it up with tangable, verifyable sources, it's all heresay.

[Mark_Who]

Lets see if we can't get this back on track here...

First, thanks for all the great info. I've been toughing out the details on a scratch build project in the same scale. This, and other threads here, have been a lot of help.

I was wondering where you located the servo's for the ailerons stabilizer and rudder, it didn't show in the photo's you so generously posted.
I'm getting nervious about CG issues

Thanks and hello

Mark

[SaucerGuy]

Welcome to Watt Flyer, I'm sure you are going to enjoy it here, alot of good people.

If you see the first photo on post 8, and the photo on post 36 you'll see where I put the servo's in. I didn't go with rudder on it, I've been ommitting incorporating it build wise these days, so it's only showing the elevator servo installed.

I'd like to take a look at the progress you have going on with your plane, I also may be doing a foam version soon.

[Mark_Who]

Thanks for the welcome, and the info.
I'll start a thread right here in the V&OT forum as soon as I get the parts together.
The sketches I started out with turned out to be so close to the SE5a, I'm thinking maybe I should grab the kit from Guillow's or maybe DCPM and mod it.

I've got a soft spot for Guillow's. I'll bet I built every kit they made back in the 60's. (some of them twice) When I decided to design a bipe with a narrow fuse, the image must have been stuck in my head because it's pretty much the same craft.

I'll be back soon.

M

[Bill G]

Thanks for the welcome, and the info.
I'll start a thread right here in the V&OT forum as soon as I get the parts together.
The sketches I started out with turned out to be so close to the SE5a, I'm thinking maybe I should grab the kit from Guillow's or maybe DCPM and mod it.

I've got a soft spot for Guillow's. I'll bet I built every kit they made back in the 60's. (some of them twice) When I decided to design a bipe with a narrow fuse, the image must have been stuck in my head because it's pretty much the same craft.

I'll be back soon.

M
Yep, I've built about 15 of them at least.:D Just started a 200% scratch build version of their 17" Stuka.

Flying Scale just published the Rake SE5A plan. His plans are easy builds. I got the mag for a buck. The HLS may have a few more one-month old issues for a buck. I buy them whenever I can. Got a bunch of these park size plans.

The SE5A is one of my favorite Guillows builds, and a good flyer.

[Mark_Who]

One more question...
What did you choose for a prop?

[SaucerGuy]

I used an 8" prop on mine, it was pretty close to scale and worked fine.

[Mark_Who]

Thanks.

[Bill G]

I used an 8" prop on mine, it was pretty close to scale and worked fine.
Any pics for motivation?

I just picked one of these up and got started building today, after a previous evening removing parts from die-cut sheets. The wood was pretty consistent, versus planes like my Guillows P47 with iron wood for hlf of the fuse formers, and lighter than contest wood for the other half.:D Only had 1 wing strut that I had to throw out, as it has less strength than a 1/4" square section of carrot. Made two spars from better wood I had here, and will use theirs for the rest.

I've been flying my Guillows SE5A and DR1 regularly as of lately, and wanted something a bit larger with ailerons.
The little DR1 is amazing! Constantly rocks from side to side while in flight, but is overall very stable.:D

[SaucerGuy]

I'll build another, but only after I finish my current plane, it's a 39" biplane, I'm going wwI era, no plans, no model to model after, just raw inspiration, experience and fun. I'll take progress photo's of it then, for now, mine is trashed in a non flying mishap.

[Bill G]

I'll build another, but only after I finish my current plane, it's a 39" biplane, I'm going wwI era, no plans, no model to model after, just raw inspiration, experience and fun. I'll take progress photo's of it then, for now, mine is trashed in a non flying mishap.That's the most rewarding way to build. I've done a few that way.
I've been getting more into the WWI planes lately, as they are so majestic. Saw a photo of the Bristol M1c a few months back that is now on the cover of Flying Scale this month (not mine, but maybe I can fool some people :D ). Had to have one, and built one just like it. Beautiful planes.

[SaucerGuy]

Bill, I had to shift gears recently even from the current build and play grown up for a while and place much more focus along my business since I exited this local operation punching their time clock. In the latter context, I've been chatting over the phone with their recently laid off head foreman, if I knew then what I know now I would have ran screaming lol.

Anyway, I'm doing a total rebuild of an espresso machine (can continue when my parts supplier figures out all of the gaskets I need, so it is currently in around 200 different pieces awaiting re-assembly on one of my workbenches, refinishing and sending back out for another tour of service an espresso cart built by the company I currently own, it was made in 1989 that I was only recently acquired, it was running very strong in the heart of Seattle the whole time, but its cool it only requires little more then cleaning, playing exclusive IT for a guy that owns a couple of little operations, ie. a Shell gas station and a Taco Del Mar that is so close I don't bother even driving to it and of course, he already has me bidding on build projects, he has no idea how overqualified I am with both of those matters. Bill, I'm not even discussing what I'm doing on the web, or in particular, as you note from my signature, getting much more heavy duty with computer land, oh yeah, I also launched a computer repair and data recovery division, :) If that is not enough, I play guitar to ridicoules levels and that really fun hobby has also taken up much of my time, at least I'm at the stage of simply having fun with it rather then still trying to learn the basics.

That said, here is a photo of the current progress, excuse the mess, I have finished gutting out my shop and putting everything back in order since then. Before I move forward with corner, struts and additional scale style bracing and running the scale pull pull cable assemblies through it, I'm going to dream up a nice looking fuse for it so that step is done most tactfully.