Flawed build/hard left turn-where would you start to re-evaluate?

[K CLOSE]

Greetings all,
OK, I recently did a very modified build on a Kavan D-VIII. This is not my first 3 to 4 channel modifacation, and all my others have gone smooth as silk. This one, however, somehow went awry. The thread is in WWI warbirds here- http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16019 . So, on it's inital hand launch she turned hard left, banking into the ground-dispite full right ailer. Second hand launch had trimmed in hard right ailer. with the same results. Third and final try had HARD right rudder trim. This time she turned RIGHT and left ailer. would not cancel. Tried a touch of up and right to circle and she rolled onto her back and stuffed it. I will rebuild after this bit of a Godsmack, and I am thinking it's a elavator A/O/A issue. It all looked great (checked with 3' sticks), but set up to kit spec's for a rudder/elavator plane.
So, to those with more skill than me---Did I miss something basic? I don't think my alier. are too small and so I think its a major flaw-not lack of ailer. athority. Where would you start?
I will get this sorted, but I though I had it right the first time:Q . Any and all thoughts openly accepted.

[SaucerGuy]

1st, balance the plane to insure you aren't fighting the weight issue, it can vary depending upon how much and what type of glue you are using, wood itself also vary's in that area. If it turns left unpowered, it's obviously a surface area issue and you may have to shim the vertical stab to counter it, if it only does it while powered up, you'll want to counter it by shimming up the motor to point the opposite direction.

I have a few planes that only fly fast, if I try to launch without enough power, they will tip stall and crash every time, so some added speed might help.

I'd like to get a front view of the plane to double check the alignment regardless.

[K CLOSE]

Sause,
I know what you mean about "fast launch" planes, got a few myself;-) . Being camera disabled I'll get some fresh pic's ASAP. Balance is/was good, with a slightly nose heavy bias (as I do on all maidens). She didn't tip stall, though, she flew smoothly in a gental arc to the left into the ground, with me hard on the stick to the right. Power on/off changed nothing, I had enough time to try cutting the throttle. Power did seem OK, not over the top but a clocked 300 on 4.5/1 spinnin' a 9x6--so about 10-12 oz of thrust. On the whole she was way too unstable. With that heavily undercambered wing I'm wondering if the A/O/A needed to be changed to facilate the use of ailer. I'll try to get some pic's soon, headin' to DC for a few days so it'll be a few.

[USAPatriot]

Check for washout in the left wing. It's probably twisted, though it could be an opposite washout in the right wing. Basically one wing has less lift that the other and the wing with the most lift pushes the plane over. It's a good starting point. -Rod-

[Sparky Paul]

I had a scratch-built D-VIII. For its short lifetime, it demonstrated it was mostly a rudder airplane, the ailerons were moderately ineffective.
The rudder could INSTANTLY invert the plane when pushed hard.
My Dr-1 had similar but less abrupt response to the rudder.
These have AXI 2820-10 motors.

[SaucerGuy]

Very nice looking planes you built there, very inspiring. I'd add more distance between the wings on the DR1 for improved independant airflow, I had something similar responses to a quick and dirty biplane I made earlier this year since I didn't have enough.

Rudder has shown to correct it, but it cancelled out the aileron controls, so I'd opt to shim both it and the vertical stab to the right slightly, the combined changes should help correct the problem upon further contemplation, it may also require more in the wing area as USA said as well. I'm still waiting to see more photo's of it prior to making any further reccomendations, ie. I want to see just how on or off it is alignment wise it is regardless.

[Sparky Paul]

Very nice looking planes you built there, very inspiring. I'd add more distance between the wings on the DR1 for improved independant airflow, I had something similar responses to a quick and dirty biplane I made earlier this year since I didn't have enough.

Rudder has shown to correct it, but it cancelled out the aileron controls, so I'd opt to shim both it and the vertical stab to the right slightly, the combined changes should help correct the problem upon further contemplation, it may also require more in the wing area as USA said as well. I'm still waiting to see more photo's of it prior to making any further reccomendations, ie. I want to see just how on or off it is alignment wise it is regardless.
.
They are nice looking.. I have the intention of building a Fokker fleet, adding an Eindecker in that color scheme, having a D-VII already.
The DR-1 was built from Ziroli plans, scaled down from .60 to .40, for an OS 40FP. It flew a lot, and flew even better when I took off the Coverite fabric covering, which I had painted, and replaced it with Monokote. The removed covering weighed 16y oz!
With an AXI 2820-10 and 3C2100 Lipo. both planes are (were) frisky, but difficult to take off and land. Squirrelly on takeoff doesn't begin to describe them, and they both preferred to overturn on their backs while landing.
They're awaiting a re-interest in repairing them, and adding the E-III.

[K CLOSE]

Sorry about the delayed response, but I've been away.
Thanks for the input guys. I will check the wing for washout. This was an EARLY kit obtained off E-bay that had been sitting for years who knows where. Easily could have been damaged.
I still don't have a camera:sad: . Pretty sad I know. Pictures will follow I promise.
Sparky P- First, beautiful job on that d-viii. Second, that sounds like my flights. Half of my problem may be down to airframe, I don't know. It ab-so-loot-ly was a handful, and full rudder SLAPS it on it's back. I've been kinda disgusted with it as I really had high hopes for her, and now she will never be as pretty as she once was.

[SaucerGuy]

Toss some weight into it and see how it fares, put it into the wind to see which side moves downwards and compensate trim wise before launch if at all possible.

I just read that in another thread with the same problem and the guy that posted it was the one that asked. I added both tail section correction and nose weight, ie. a fuse and battery pack since I had the same problem on my latest creation so proves to be good advice.