Alfa's EDFs

[tashley]

Starting this thread to discuss the Alfa EDFs. Mig, Sabre, etc.
I am building an F-86 at present done up in a Fury naval scheme just to be a little different. Equipment will be Himax 2025-5300-CC 25-and TP 3s 2100 Pro-Lites.

[HORNET FLYER]

just got my alfa-183 huck....similar to the mig....it can rog to......so far all i have gone is open it up and it is one hell of a plane, very light and for the detail it has....rivits, the cokpit and paint job, $169 doesnt get any better,

i ordered mine of e flight line.com as there package deal and was at my door in 5 days...sweet, thanks eflightline

it came with a hi maxx 2025-5300 2 pico naros and cc-25( hell of a deal)

so far ive only had time to take out stock motor and put in the hi maxx....great fit.

more later
paul

[Jagzilla]

I have my electrical setup exactly the same as you are putting together in my F-86, Tashley. I think you'll love it!! Easy hand launches, decently fast, and very responsive. I started out at about 2/3 of the control movemements that the instructions recommended, and found that to be quite fine to start with. Look for long landings with the heavier weight of the package you are putting together. The thing will glide forever when it gets a foot or so off the deck, sorta gets that "ground effect" thing happening. You can run out of runway before you know it. Keep it in mind to come in slow for the landings. Good luck, I know you'll love your Alfa.
J

[tashley]

What weight did yours finish out at. Mine came in at 17.5oz.
I just had to do something other than the same old same old so I went with a Fury. Not as bling as an 86 but different.

[Jagzilla]

MInes around 18.75 flying weight. I fibreglassed the entire front end to the wings. A little extra weight there, but well worth it. I also extended the rear thrust exhaust tube.
J

[tashley]

I found the fuse nose a little fragile myself and this is the action I took for a little re-inforcement. I put a one inch ring of BVM Magna Lite around the inside of the nose ring and soaked in a little thin ca. It's stiff for sure now without much added weight at all.

[tashley]

Another change I made has to do with the equipment tray. To use the larger batteries the tray needs to be at or near the bottom of the stringers for battery to canopy clearance and some have done this by moving the tray down and using tri-stock to fill the gap. I made a new tray that fits tight to the fuse sides when placed under the bottom of the stringers but since it's wider it has to be made in two pieces. The rear piece goes in first and then the front piece can be installed. One benefit from doing it this way is that the tray pieces can be tacked to the stringers and easily cut out and removed if you want to remove the front duct from the fuse entirely.

[watt_the?!]

my mig and huck v 2.

huck v1 is reviewed at RCU.

Tim.

[tashley]

Very nice Tim. What paints do you like.

[watt_the?!]

thanks mate.

actually the paints are just regular old water based acrylics.

i dont worry too much about the added weight as these things have power to burn anyways with the brushless setups.

i spray using compressor. i did use a tamiya paint on one initially but the camo from the huck reacted with it. So i sanded it all back and went over again with the acrylic.

i did see a thread where someone used a damp metho soaked cloth to remove the camo before painting with the tamiya type aerosol spray paint.

the arylics are alot harder to get a good finish though, as they need more paint and take days to properly dry (i.e. days before you can hanlde them and not leave a fingerprint).

Tim.

[tashley]

Try using a heat gun or hair dryer after each coat. I primarilly use Createx acrylics and after each coat I flash dry with a heat gun. Ready to handle in minutes.;)

[watt_the?!]

you dont notice that the oils from your fingertips actually mark the surface?

i can pick up an otherwise dry model days later and if i apply pressure it marks the surface with a print indentation.

i was attributing this to the high water content.

??

[tashley]

Not with Createx. No joke, minutes after flashing, it's completly cured.
I painted both colors on the Fury above, applied decals, and shot a mist coat of clear oveall in one day.

[watt_the?!]

createx eh?

im off to find this stuff!

thanks mate!

Tim.

[tashley]

Tim, when you find a source, buy only the Auto Air type.
http://www.dixieart.com/CreatexAutoAir.html

[GentleBen1952]

Good old Krylon Fusion after sanding all the silver paint off.

[tashley]

Looks good, Fusion dosen't suck on foamies. I sanded most all the silver off my 86 before I shot it with Createx also. Something I don't think I care to do again.

[shakey thumb]

Got my Alfa F-86 today. I was impressed with the kit. I have been in rc models for over 30 years, but I have never had a electric or a ducted fan so i hope you all can help! I haven't got the motor or any of the electric equipment yet so first which is better motor to get the Himax 2025-5300 or the AC 25/25-26 MK2? I will have a lot of questions as I build this one. Thanks

[tashley]

You know what I think.;) How fast do you want to go, how much do you want to spend. Mph=$:D

[watt_the?!]

easy one. himax .

[watt_the?!]

Good old Krylon Fusion after sanding all the silver paint off.

very nice!

[shakey thumb]

I like a scale like speed doesnt have to be super fast. Also one that will work with the fan unit without any mods.

[tashley]

Ok shakey, I'll give my opinion one more time and bow out for others to give you their feed-back.

2025-5300 :D

[tashley]

thanks mate.

actually the paints are just regular old water based acrylics.

i dont worry too much about the added weight as these things have power to burn anyways with the brushless setups.

i spray using compressor. i did use a tamiya paint on one initially but the camo from the huck reacted with it. So i sanded it all back and went over again with the acrylic.

i did see a thread where someone used a damp metho soaked cloth to remove the camo before painting with the tamiya type aerosol spray paint.

the arylics are alot harder to get a good finish though, as they need more paint and take days to properly dry (i.e. days before you can hanlde them and not leave a fingerprint).

Tim.

What the heck is metho? Short for ???

[watt_the?!]

lol...maybe an australianism?

methylated spirits.

[tashley]

Jeesshh, I should have figured that one out.:o

[tashley]

My Fury is finished. Waiting on weather to maiden.

[shakey thumb]

Tashley your Fury looks great good luck with the maiden. I have started building mine. Got the himax 2025-5300,cc25 and tp3-2100 battery. I will be posting some questions about the fan unit.

[shakey thumb]

ok

[shakey thumb]

Questions about the fan unit for alpha F-86 I have the Himax 2025 motor which is the best way to attach the fan to the motor, glue the metal plug on that came with the fan unit or use the one that came with the motor. Also is there anyone in the charlotte nc area that has built one or has experince with electric jets that could look at mine IF i get it together .

[roccobro]

If you have the resources, I would drill and tap the adapter for 2.5mm setscrews. I do it for friends as it makes such a dramatic improvement in balance and in servicability.
http://static.rcgroups.com/gallery/data/500/19897MVC-847F-med.JPG

Justin

[tashley]

That's a must do mod. I never signed on to using a collet/spinner nut. This is a much cleaner, easier, lighter way to do it rocco.

[shakey thumb]

thanks roccobro good idea.

[roccobro]

Just a little hint, when tapping for M2.5, use some of GWS's M2.6 setscrews used in their EDF-55/64 hub. It makes for a better thread gripping screw. I haven't stripped a m2.5 setcrew in the alum adapter, but I get cranking on these little guys and don't want to risk finding their torque limit. :o

Justin

[shakey thumb]

roccobro, another question please, do u drill and tap just one hole or do you drill the other side also to keep it balanced. thanks

[tashley]

I would think it would be wise to drill through and tap both sides. Then there would be no balance issue and you'll have twice the gripping power.

[shakey thumb]

ok thanks for all the help guys its great to get all this info. This old dog is learning new tricks.

[roccobro]

Toms right. I drill all the way through and then tap all the way through so there is two opposing setscrews. I'm hoping to make some adapters myself so the shaft hole is tight like a WeMoTec fan adapter. Just the setscrews make a big difference from the loose stock adapter that gets glued on. :D

Justin

[tashley]

I must have gotten lucky with my adapter as it's a very snug fit on the shaft of my 2025-5300. I used locktite to mount mine but when it comes off for maintenance or whatever I'll be doing the set screw mod.

[watt_the?!]

dang...ive always used the collet/spinner that comes with the motor itself for zero problems...

[tashley]

There's nothing wrong with using the motor supplied adapter/spinner, it's just more mass and weight.

[watt_the?!]

actually im pretty sure it weighs less.

[tashley]

Well, actually it dosen't.;)
The Himax prop adapter/spinner weighs in at 40 grains and the stock hub weighs in at a scant 38.3 grains, but who's counting.:D

[watt_the?!]

lol..well ill be!

''feels'' lighter...maybe coz its in two bits...

1.7 g eh?....lol...thatd be right...egg on my face....glad i wrote ''pretty sure''...rather than ''it is lighter''...

[tashley]

Jess messin wit ya Tim :D , I actually thought it would be lighter than it is and with the weight of the spinner screw it prolly would come out the same weight. Course you could use the Himax unit and leave off the stock Alfa spinner and come out lighter.

[Bmiller]

Hello Everybody!
This is a video of my Minutemen Alfa F-86 2025/5300 using 4S!
Hope you like it.
Regards, Bruce
http://aeneas.ps.uci.edu/edf/a10gws/f-86-alfa-bruce.wmv

Much thanks to Herb for video:)

[roccobro]

Thanks for posting that Bruce! You've got a screamer there (literally)! :D

Welcome to WattFlyer!!!

Justin

[Rockpile1022]

Just about to finish up on my K & A F-86- I am useing a KRESS Jet Fan 709E, The Motor is a Mega Brushless 16/15/2 ,the speed controller is Jeti Advance 77 -3P OPTO. Over all flight weight (without Batterys) is 23- 1/4 oz. The jet is covered with Aluminun tape. The fuselage is Fiberglass, the tail fethers are balsa, and the wings are foam balsa covered and then fiberglased.
What I'm Looking for is what type of battery should I use? I will get some pictures posted as soon as I get the battery chared in the camara.
Thanks for the help.
Rochpile1022:rolleyes:

[roccobro]

Do you have any battery packs that you could hook up to and see what the rough current draw would be? The Kress fans are hit and miss, and I don't know what you are expecting out of it thrust wise. SOunds like you've got a nice F-86, I assume this is the "park" sized one? I amlost bought one a month back.

Justin

[Rockpile1022]

Thanks for the reply Justin.
what I have for a battery right now is an Electrifly1500mAH 11.1V 3-cell in sears Lithlum-Polymer battery pack. Charge at 1.5 A max.

[watt_the?!]

on the kress website, they have a 9s setup running 33A for 23000 rpm...plus they also show data for 9s at 18 amps for 23000rpm...

very confusing.... if 23000 rpm is (for case 1) 900W, and (for case 2) 510W...then get this...

on the mega 16/15/2 on 3S you can expect 10V x 4600 rpm = 43000-46000 rpm.

This is approx double the rpm they have tested. Double the RPM = four tiume the thrust change, and 8 times the power requirement.

So, if you work backwards...delta rpm = 2. Therefore delta thrust = 4. Therefore delta power = 8.

So you'l get their thrust (35.7oz) x 4 = 142oz!!!!!!
But you'll need their power (500-900W) x 8 = 4-7.2kW.


has kress tested for rpm in excess of 40k?...they slipped off the shaft at 28k during our ICDF testing.

Tim

[Bmiller]

Don't wish to rain on your parade Rockpile but,
I believe the typical draw for that motor on other fans @12volts is anywhere from 25 to 35+amps! Depends on the fan. I have no experience w/ the Kress fans. But I'm pretty certain your pack is
NOT capable of handling the /2 motor. If you have an ampmeter you can do a quick testrun with it in the fan unit....
Bruce

[shakey thumb]

Ok guys I finished my Alfa F-86 on 12-10-05 . It has the himax 2025 5300 tp 3-2100 The weather cleared enough today for a quick test flight. I decided to do a ground take off for the first flight. Placed it on the grass runway and gave it full power after about 150 ft. it lifted off and climed out great. Had to put in a lot of down trim for level flight but no other trim needed the jet flies like on rails. Flew around for about 4 min and while making a turn noticed the ailerons stuck in a right turn thought I had lost it but recovered just in time and made another turn and came in for a beautiful landing. This plane is great, got to check out the ailerons before I fly again but I LIKE IT!

[tashley]

YeeeHaaa!:)

[roccobro]

Congrats!!!

Justin

[Air Support]

I have the MiG-15. I love it. Everything from the packaging to the flight characteristics- all great. Really pay close attention to the instructions. I use a 3S-2100mah and a himax 2015-4100. Love the steep dive low flyby. very fast!

[roccobro]

Air Support, have you check your current draw? I found the 4200 on 3s pulled around 12-13A. On 4s she would kick it up to 17A and 53k rpm. This 4s TP1320 package gives more rpm than the 5300 on 3s, at a lower weight (1oz less with ParkBEC) and overall cost was less too. In case you ever want to kick it up a notch. *BAM!* :D

Justin

[Son of Paleface]

Hey Tim , How do I get FRAPPRD ????

[watt_the?!]

click on the link in my signature mate!

and there you go!

Tim

[Air Support]

Air Support, have you check your current draw? I found the 4200 on 3s pulled around 12-13A. On 4s she would kick it up to 17A and 53k rpm. This 4s TP1320 package gives more rpm than the 5300 on 3s, at a lower weight (1oz less with ParkBEC) and overall cost was less too. In case you ever want to kick it up a notch. *BAM!* :D

Justin


no I have not checked, and yes i do want to kick it up a notch, where can i find info about a 4s? speedspeedspeed!!
thanks

[toxdoc]

Mini AC 1215/12...fitting the motor?
Got the F86 for Christmas...sweet! HL advised the Mini AC 1215.12 for a motor upgrade and also advised wrapping the motor can with automotive detail tape so as to fit it into the MOTOR RECEIVER housing (motor is smaller diameter, 24.8mm). I'd certainly appreciate advice from you pros out there on that, or alternative, approaches. I'd thought about wedging carbon rod of an appropriate diameter between the motor can and the housing, but HL advised that would likely cause electrical noise I didn't need....

So, how best to take up the space between the motor and the housing to keep the motor centered.....
I'm all ears...this is too pretty to sit in the box and I'd like to start the build!

thanks, Steve

thanks

[Bmiller]

You can center the motor using the 2 motor screws. Glue some wood pieces(not balsa,too soft)hardstock or something to support the stators to motor, and you will still have airflow around the motorcase especially if you drill a few holes (4-8) thru the sides of motor receiver tube for added cooling.
Have fun!
Bruce

btw, IMO that tape around motor is an awful idea. Works but ...yuck!

[roccobro]

Some have suggested some appropriate gauge wire in strips running lengthwise so the airflow is not blocked from cooling the motor.

Justin

[watt_the?!]

i dont wrap mine at all....just use the stock screws at the front and let her sit there....maybe not a good long term strategy, but it hasnt failed yet...

[Bmiller]

You might get some vibration at hi rpm with no support,
And flexing especially during bumpy landings or hi "G" manuvers,
But if it works for you thats cool!:)