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Mike Parsons
07-20-2005, 12:51 AM
This project has tested knowledge, patience and the laws of physics. At the time of it's completion there were only two setups in the world like it. The owner of Cyclon motors Fabrice was the first and this project was number 2. It most certainly wont be the last though.

The plane is an 30% Yak-54 sold and distributed by Extremeflightrc.com. The power system was sponsored by Atlantahobby.com who imports the Cyclon motors in the US. Here are some spec's on the project.

Plane
Yak-54
87" WS
15.5 lbs AUW
Designed for a 50cc gas engine

Power:
2 Cyclon 160 outrunners ganged to a single shaft
2 CastleCreations Pheonix 110HV controllers
2 6V UBECS run in tandem for redundancy
4 4S3P packs. 2 each motor harnessed in series to form an 8S3P.

Performance:
4800 watts (320 watts/lb)
85 amps
~32 pounds of thrust

Video: Yak-54 Video with stated specs (http://epowerflight.com/Media/87yak/mikeparsons-yak87-050814.wmv)

Nathan
07-20-2005, 03:59 AM
An airplane designed for a 50cc gas engine flying great using electric power, incredible. It really wasn't that long ago this wasn't even a thought any of us considered as a possibility. Incredible.

Nice video too Mike.

Mike Parsons
07-20-2005, 01:22 PM
Thanks Nathan. Technology in Electrics is moving at the computer industry pace. This power package will easily power a 100cc plane ~20 lb plane. I just have no way to transport a 100Cc plane.
I uploaded a new video. I posted one of Chris flying and meant to post one from this last Sunday with me testing the corner stick positions :)

-Mike

JFGrn
07-20-2005, 08:08 PM
Hi Mike,
How much are these twin 160's going for?

I think a 100cc gasser is a little over $1000 US.

I love this stuff

John

Mike Parsons
07-20-2005, 09:17 PM
Hey John,
The twin 160's are $675.00. Then there are the controllers, UBEC's and Batteries. I have never totalled it up...I am kind of scared to actually :D.
http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=5701

wattme
07-20-2005, 09:35 PM
Nice Job! Generally speaking considering all types of flying in a single flight, what is the length of flight time available with your setup? Thank you in advance

Mike Parsons
07-20-2005, 09:42 PM
Thanks Wattme. I normally put two 7 minute flights and then one 5-6 minute flight and put between 4500-5000 back in the batteries. So between 20-25 minutes total.

-Mike

NimbleGimbal
07-21-2005, 05:33 PM
Gotta love the Yaks... I think axi also has a new dual outrunner out now, looks pretty sweet

Speaking of giant electrics, I saw some other giant with FOUR hacker c50xl's and a custom belt-driven gearbox.. the prop was HUGE... and from the pics it had plenty power for all the 3d stuff..

Mike Parsons
07-21-2005, 11:42 PM
That sounds like Mark Leesburgs 40% Extra.

Matt Kirsch
07-22-2005, 11:33 PM
Mike,

It looks like the two bells share a common shaft. Is that how this one works?

Mike Parsons
07-23-2005, 01:13 AM
Matt,
Exactly. There is one common shaft.The two motors are synched up via wiring them up in series with a C battery and then two set screws on each motor secure it to the shaft. One motor is facing forward and the other is facing towards the rear. This is mainly for mounting purposes as each motor has to be secured via the flange (front mounted to the front plate and the back mounted to the back.

-Mike

Jason T
07-23-2005, 04:21 AM
Mike,

Very nice flying in that video. I am noticing more trees in the knife edge passes and the inverted pass. :) I don't want to take a pic of the Yak like the one below. ;)

Jason

Mike Parsons
07-23-2005, 04:36 AM
Ahhhh..my banchee laying down on the job...May it RIP :D.

Thanks Jason. I am getting braver with it...or it is making me feel more comfortable :).

-Mike

Boomerang
07-23-2005, 04:57 AM
Just one more example that electrics are the next step in the evolution of model aircraft. Sure they (the IC brigade) will say it doesn't sound right (does sounding like a chain saw mean right?) but they always fail to mention the quietness, cleanliness, the reliability, the convienience, the lack of tuning, no fiddly mufflers, no fuel proofing.......................:rolleyes:

Very, very impressive! - John.

Jason T
07-23-2005, 02:55 PM
Sorry Mike,

I had to post that pic. :)

Jason

Mike Parsons
07-23-2005, 03:55 PM
Its all good :D

Fly-n-3D
07-24-2005, 07:43 PM
That's great! The only Yak I have is an E-flite Yak 54F foamy.

Mike Parsons
07-25-2005, 03:22 PM
The E-flite Yak-54 is a great plane. Both of mine that I owned flew great. Both died a valiant death at my hands. I need to pick up a third :).

-Mike

Matt Kirsch
07-25-2005, 08:22 PM
Mike,

I'm interested in this whole "sync" thing. Is it crucial/critical to have both motors synchronized? What constitutes synchronized?

Mike Parsons
07-25-2005, 08:41 PM
Mike,

I'm interested in this whole "sync" thing. Is it crucial/critical to have both motors synchronized? What constitutes synchronized?
Matt,
Below is the process and a very crude illustration of how it is wired up. It is crucial to have both motors synced. A better terminology of the process is "phasing or timing" the motors. This ensures that both motors are on the same phase so that both motors are firing at the same time. Without syncing the motors, one could be fighting the other as it turns.

"Syncing the motors:
The first motor is slid on the shaft and the set screws are marked. Remove the motor and flat spot the marks. Reinstall the first motor and install the setscrews.
Take the second motor and slide it on the shaft. Take a single cell battery (I used a C battery) and wire it as depicted by the diagram. This locks the first and second motor into sync. Mark the locations of the setscrews from the second motor and remove the battery and second motor. Flat spot the marks and then reinstall the second motor on the shaft and secure the setscrews. Now the motors are synced to the shaft. "

Jason T
07-26-2005, 01:04 AM
Mike,

That is very interesting. Can more than two of those motors be wired in series?

Jason

Mike Parsons
07-26-2005, 01:24 AM
Jason,
Yep. The only limiting factor is the shaft and there is nothing limiting how long a shaft can be. I have personal knowledge that a 44 lb aircraft will be flown in a few months with a three motor system in tandum. It will be the first in the world of its kind. Somewhere in the neighborhood of the upper 8000 watts :)

-Mike

Jason T
07-26-2005, 03:11 AM
Man, that is awesome! Is that happening across the pond or here?

Mike Parsons
07-26-2005, 03:12 AM
It'll be on this side of the pond, but on the west coast.

-Mike

nick.wright
07-26-2005, 03:18 AM
I saw the Yak at the SEFF this year. SWEET PLANE!!! The outrunners flew it with authority.

Mike Parsons
07-27-2005, 12:28 AM
Thanks Nick. I am having a lot of fun with it. Chris did a great job of opening it up at SEFF...even though it was really windy.

-Mike

nick.wright
07-27-2005, 04:02 PM
Mike,

I want one of these Yak's REAL BAD!!! Seeing the electrified Yak at the SEFF made the want factor go sky high. Where can I find one at? I have some pics that I'll try to post later tonight.

Mike Parsons
07-27-2005, 04:15 PM
Chris is sold out as of now. Last word I had was that Chris was going over to find out what the hold up is. It could be mid Fall before they hit the states :(

nick.wright
07-27-2005, 04:53 PM
Chris is sold out as of now. Last word I had was that Chris was going over to find out what the hold up is. It could be mid Fall before they hit the states :(

I hope the issue gets fixed. BTW, how much does the dual outrunner set up run?

Mike Parsons
07-28-2005, 03:06 PM
I hope it gets resolved too. Chris is a heck of a guy and has amazing products.

Here is a link to the dual outrunner motor system from www.Atlantahobby.com. http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=5701.

ron_van_sommeren
07-29-2005, 03:33 PM
... Below is the process and a very crude illustration of how it is wired up. It is crucial to have both motors synced...Easier to give each motor it's own controller, syncing is not needed.

Mike Parsons
07-29-2005, 04:27 PM
Ron,
Good to see you here. Each motor has it's own CastleCreations 110HV. The manufacturer still recommends syncing the motors for the reasons mentioned above.

-Mike

CGRetired
07-29-2005, 05:53 PM
Very impressive! Thanks, Mike!!

One of our members, a pattern type, built an Electric from scratch using the Tiger II plans: shortened the wings, lightened it considerably by using balsa instead of ply for the fuselage, balsa with carbon for the spars, very nice design. Not on the same size category as yours, but all in all, they put on one hell of a show. It was funny because he clipped the tips of the ailerons and elevators so the plane would fit in his car.

DS.

Mike Parsons
07-29-2005, 06:11 PM
Thanks DS and welcome to Wattflyer!!
I am just dying to get some electrons flowing through a pattern plane. Maybe one day soon :).

-Mike

pcphill
07-30-2005, 12:35 AM
Is it just me, or are you omnipresent on the net? I don't know where you and Jason find the time.

Great flying bird and glad to see the updated artwork on the nose!

Happy flying,
Phill

Mike Parsons
07-30-2005, 01:26 AM
Hey Phil and Thanks! Time seems shorter these days, but I am making due :).

Here is the new nose art that Phil is referring to. Just shy of 5kw....maybe not for long :).

bwillhite
07-30-2005, 05:09 AM
Mike, your Yak is awesome!

I am flying a Funtana 90 under e-Power, but feel the need for something larger, plus I want to glue some balsa sticks together.

How well do you think the dual setup would fly the Great Plane Giant 330L? I have wanted to build this kit for a long time. http://www.greatplanes.com/airplanes/gpma0250.html

Thanks!

Brian

Mike Parsons
07-30-2005, 09:06 PM
Hey Brian! Thanks a lot. It has been a fun project for sure.

Funny you should mention a 100" ws plane. I was actually researching the very same thing today. A friend of mine is selling a Planes Plus 103" Extra that I was doing some math on this power system in it. Even if it comes out to be on the heavy side of 25lbs, that is still 192 watts/lb. 150 w/lb is my general benchmark for ballistic 3D performance. Anything over that is just gravey :). The good thing is that you could build it and make it lighter. Anything you save under 25 lbs is just a plus for better performance. I would love to have a 100CC plane converted by SEFF next year.

-Mike

atlav8r
08-05-2005, 02:51 AM
It'll be on this side of the pond, but on the west coast.

-Mike

Shipping the 3 Cyclon 160 F3A motors in the next few days for this project. Trying to figure out the best prop size right now as big carbon props are expensive. This aircraft will be atthe Neet Fair in September if all goes well with the testing.

Mike Parsons
08-06-2005, 05:46 PM
Shipping the 3 Cyclon 160 F3A motors in the next few days for this project. Trying to figure out the best prop size right now as big carbon props are expensive. This aircraft will be atthe Neet Fair in September if all goes well with the testing.
I cant wait to see the final project!

ForestCam
08-23-2005, 03:15 AM
You should fly IMAC with this! You'd get the quiet points without throttling back like the big boys have to!:cool:

Just watched my brother compete with is 42% Extra 260 on Saturday.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfiles/57478/Mr42355.jpg

Mike Parsons
08-23-2005, 03:45 AM
That is beautiful! :) Send it to me...Ill have the conversion done in no time ;)

ForestCam
08-23-2005, 04:50 AM
Dalton Aviation 42% Extra 260
Wing Span 123"
Wing area 2850 sq. in.
Engine Size 150cc
Finished weight with canisters 37 lbs. -/+
$1145.00 Available right now

First QUAD cyclon motor?:D

BTW, the plane was also designed by my brother and he is working on a 30% kit.

Mike Parsons
08-23-2005, 02:11 PM
First QUAD cyclon motor?:D

BTW, the plane was also designed by my brother and he is working on a 30% kit.
I think a set of triplets might do it :D

Joacim
08-25-2005, 04:24 PM
What prop doas the dual and trippel swing, and what rpm?

Mike Parsons
08-25-2005, 05:44 PM
Joacim,
I think the prop for the triplet is going to be in the 26-27" range and ~6k. The dual swings a 24X12 at 5900 RPM or a 22x12 at 6100 RPM

Fabrice displayed his 3m Comparf Extra at the World's this week. Three Cyclons on 10S each.

Joacim
08-25-2005, 06:27 PM
The dual shows almost exactly same performance as one Actro 60-175 on 12s Lipo.

Do you know the amp and voltage, would be very interesting to know!?

Mike Parsons
08-25-2005, 06:35 PM
I am running an 8S3P on each motor (16S3P total) with the 24x12 for 80 amps and 70 amps for the 22x12. The 24x12 has been measured at 4800 watts and the 22x12 at 4000 watts.

Joacim
08-25-2005, 07:50 PM
So its 8s3p for one motor... 2x80amp = 4000+watts on a 24x12" prop, 5900rpm.

My setup is :
40,9v
69A
24x14" Menz wood
5700rpm (think it will be 6k on carbon 25x12")

Mike Parsons
08-25-2005, 08:15 PM
Correct..8S3P per motor. Amps right off the charger are 82a.... 2 x 82a x 29.6v= 4854 watts and ~5900 rpm and some change. About 34.5 lbs of thrust.


Is that setup on the Actro 60? They are amazing motors.

Joacim
08-25-2005, 09:41 PM
Ok then i understand!

Yes the setup is on a actro 60-175, have tryed on 14s also but its abit high KV for this, a 140kv will be better.

60 motors avalibul now is:
140 (10-14s..maby 15s)
160(10-14s)
175(10-12s)
and soon 200(10s)

Recomended Lipo is what i think will work fine, soon i will test the 200kv version, maby i get simular performance as the 175 on 12s but with higher amp draw.

Greybone
08-26-2005, 12:02 PM
Hi.
Actro 60-175 installed in my Hangar9 Extra 330S 33%,going whit 13s4p TP Prolite.
/R

Mike Parsons
09-08-2005, 02:44 PM
Hi.
Actro 60-175 installed in my Hangar9 Extra 330S 33%,going whit 13s4p TP Prolite.
/R
GB,
Have you flown this one yet?

Greybone
09-08-2005, 02:48 PM
Hi,
Not yet,waiting for my batterys.
/R

atlav8r
09-08-2005, 03:00 PM
Hi,
Not yet,waiting for my batterys.
/R

What batteries do you need?

DickCorby
10-08-2005, 05:45 PM
Indeed Big Birds are coming out electric all the time. Last week I maidened, and lost my QuiQue Sominzini 72" Yak 54.
It flew for about 3 minutes absolutely perfect. Hands off, half throttle level flight with not a bit of trim anywhere. Then about 3 minutes into the flight all control was lost and it went in from about 200 ft. Total loss. Wasn't thumbs. Havent found any reason for it to happen, but it did.

The great thing is that it was flying so well on an AXI 5130 brushless outrunner motor, direct drive. It weighed exactly 11 Lbs. and flew like it was a 5 lb plane.

I'm on the list for another when they come available. It was one of the best built ARF's Ive seen, and if I can keep it in one piece next time will be a wonderful plane.

The point is that 3 years ago I could not have flown such a model electric. But now the sky's the limit.

Joacim
10-08-2005, 06:00 PM
http://www.brainless.org/MultiMedia/RC/Pictures/TIMPA/2005TOC/ElectricYAK.htm

No longer any need for multi motor setups ;)

DickCorby
10-08-2005, 07:44 PM
The only thing we did find on the short flight was that it needed a bit more power to have good vertical.

It flew level and hands off at about 5/8 throttle, I prefer 1/2 throttle, or less, for level hands off. As it was, it had about 200 oz of thrust for the weight of 169 oz. Watts were in the range of 1500-1600 for about 2 horsepower. Not too shabby.

I was planning on going from the 8S-2P to a 10S-2P setup and increase the prop size from a 19 inch prop to a 20 inch prop. I figure that this would do the job.

The plane did Knife edge with no coupling whatsoever. Snaps, rolls, loops etc were all perfect. We got a lot of test flying into the short time before it crashed, as there was not a click of trim required to get it to fly right.

My hat is off to Quique Somenzini for a great plane. And he has done some refining and is coming out with a new version that will fly even better. I'm sure looking forward to building another as soon as I can get my hands on one.

Mad Skill
10-09-2005, 03:20 AM
I had a QQ yak also. Powered by by a C50 12xl and a 10s4P 5300. My speed control burnt up in flight and caused the plane to catch fire. When it hit the ground the batteries were damaged by the inpact. I am also waiting for the new version of the 72" yak to come out.

Mike Parsons
10-10-2005, 09:54 PM
http://www.brainless.org/MultiMedia/RC/Pictures/TIMPA/2005TOC/ElectricYAK.htm

No longer any need for multi motor setups ;)
Joacim,
Yeah, that thing is insane! :)


Dick, Madskill,
The QQ Yak is very nice! I have already stated before, but I hate that you lost your's Madskill.

Joacim
10-10-2005, 10:18 PM
Yes , but find it hard to belive, 1300g motor- 13kwatts, letts se what pletti says in future :) one can only hope.

DickCorby
10-10-2005, 10:53 PM
What speed control were you using???? On mine I had the Jeti 90 Opto, and it didnt even get warm running full bore on the bench. The 5130 was the same, and the batteries as well. There was hardly any warming at all on any of them.

Even with the 20 inch prop, they ran cool on the bench. But I flew it with a 19 inch prop as the ground clearance was too close on the 20 inch, and we fly off grass. The prop doesnt like to move the plane while it's being used as a lawn mower.:)

Mad Skill
10-10-2005, 11:12 PM
I was using the jeti 77 amp opto.

wperko
10-12-2005, 07:09 PM
:cool: Hi,

Besides the dual motor setup, I've also looked at the Neu 22/15 "BAM" motors at http://www.neumotors.com/ ... a 5-KW motor coming on the market soon ... flies a 2.3m Composite-ARF.com Extra 330 ... see the video ...
http://www.brainless.org/MultiMedia/RC/Video/SEFSD/20050810-RayF-Flt-01ms.wmv

=========================================

I've posted hundreds of pictures and videos from the 2005 Tucson TOC Shootout held at the Tucson International Modelplex Park Association ( TIMPA ) field ...

Pictures:
http://www.brainless.org/MultiMedia/RC/Pictures/TIMPA/2005TOC/

Videos:
http://www.brainless.org/MultiMedia/RC/Video/TIMPA/2005-TIMPA-TOC/

I hope you all can enjoy them ...

One note of interest to electric flyers ... a 10KW brushless
http://www.brainless.org/MultiMedia/RC/Pictures/TIMPA/2005TOC/eYak55SP.htm

And how's this for electric performance on a 30-lb./13.5-Kg Yak?
http://www.brainless.org/MultiMedia/RC/Video/TIMPA/2005-TIMPA-TOC/Yak55SP-Hover.wmv

... better see the whole video ... posted ...

Just be sure to tell'em I sent you ... I'm going to need a discount if I get a plane that big!

My regards to all the Pilots 'n Crews 'n TIMPA staff 'n visitors ... we had a great week!


The week rates 5-cheesy smiles :D :D :D :D :D

atlav8r
10-13-2005, 02:18 PM
Here is a nice video of a large 11KG (24 pound) plane flying on just one Cyclon F3A motor.

2.3 Meter plane,
One Cyclon F3A,
8S 2600mah cells ,
11 Kg, 24Pounds
12 Minute flight

http://home.tiscali.be/papy.kilowatt/AN2ELECTRO_0003.WMV

Mike Parsons
10-13-2005, 02:29 PM
That is Nutz! Just shows what these motors can do.

wperko
10-13-2005, 03:10 PM
Here is a nice video of a large 11KG (24 pound) plane flying on just one Cyclon F3A motor.

2.3 Meter plane,
One Cyclon F3A,
8S 2600mah cells ,
11 Kg, 24Pounds
12 Minute flight

http://home.tiscali.be/papy.kilowatt/AN2ELECTRO_0003.WMV
Hi,

Nice plane ... and yes a smaller motor can fly a very large aircraft (horizontally) ... just not 3D ...

Manfred and I were talking about that when I was telling him of an email from another friend who has a 5KW Neu 22/15 in a 102" QuiQue Somenzini Yak 54 ... yes the plane flies and even can fly IMAC aerobatics ... but it's not 3D ... nor would be the Plettenberg Predator in a 40-lb. plane ... the plane would fly, but not 3D ...

Did you see the Hover2Throttle-UP video? That's the proof of power ...

http://www.brainless.org/MultiMedia/RC/Video/TIMPA/2005-TIMPA-TOC/Yak55SP-Hover.wmv


OTOH, for a nice bi-plane like you'rs there is no reason to over power it for 3D since 3D flight would be difficult for the planes configuration/type ...

In San Diego there's a guy "Mike" who flies a L2 electric ... the plane has a 60" wing span and the motor barely flies the plane ... but as you watch it, the flights look scale ... it's fun to watch ... he has fun flying it like that too ... and it saves him $'s ...

FinnFlyer
10-13-2005, 06:21 PM
FWIW

This model is 1/2 scale, with two Ultra 2000/5, on a 4.8:1 belt-drive system.
By the way, the original airplane had a wing span of 42ft.

(http://www.rcgroups.com/articles/ezonemag/2001/jan/aspach_2k-1/aspach_2k-1.htm#Klemm)

DickCorby
10-18-2005, 02:40 AM
Finally got a YAK 54 to go, and it was awsome. ARF is a Ultra RC YAK 54 Fiberglass fuselage and built up wings and tail feathers. Only 52" wingspan, but flies like a big bird.

Pretty much IMAC Capable with a few minor adjustments. It flew with little or no trim changes, but is a bit noseheavy. Second Flight landed at 8 minutes with battery to spare.

Specifications:

Motor AXI 4130/16
Castle Creations 60 Amp Speed controller
Battery 4S-2P Dymond Modelsports 6000MAH
Prop APC 15/8E
FMA FS8 Receiver
FMA Power Force Voltage Regulator
Hitec Optic 6 TRansmitter
5 Hitec HS645MG Servos
Weight 107 oz.
Static Thrust 109 oz
Watts/Lb 104.5

It's not a Quique Yak, but will give me time to practice until I get the one in the box in the dining room built again. I really lucked out and got another Quique 72" NIB and will have it up in the near future.

Mike Parsons
10-18-2005, 03:35 AM
Congrats Dick! :)

Mad Skill
10-18-2005, 11:47 AM
Where did you find another new the box QQ yak? I would like to get another one.

DickCorby
10-18-2005, 03:47 PM
Where did you find another new the box QQ yak? I would like to get another one.

I am on the list to get one when they arrive later in November, but a guy heard about my crash from Portland that had one NIB, and needed a new motor for his latest project. We met half way, and I didnt wait 10 minutes to go get it. They are really rare.

EpoweredRc
10-20-2005, 04:45 PM
Mike,

Very nice flying in that video. I am noticing more trees in the knife edge passes and the inverted pass. :) I don't want to take a pic of the Yak like the one below. ;)

Jason

Thats A Priceless Picture right there LOL ,Sorry I just found this thread and had to say it.
:D

Mike Parsons
10-20-2005, 05:11 PM
Thats A Priceless Picture right there LOL ,Sorry I just found this thread and had to say it.
:D
LOL. I miss that plane :D

EpoweredRc
10-20-2005, 05:13 PM
LOL. I miss that plane :D

It didnt look hurt, it just got confussed what side the landing gear were on.;)

Mike Parsons
10-20-2005, 05:31 PM
A bad RX caused its untimely death a few months later.

Jeff Boyd 2
04-25-2006, 09:52 AM
Hi Mike,

I have just got a 73" YAK (PS. it's light at 5 1/2 lbs for bare airframe) and it has CA Hinges . . I'm sick of reading all the YES . .NO threads regarding their use. It kinda leaves me "confident without confidence". Did the 87" YAK use CA hinges? or how big a 3D machine would you go using them?

Thanks, Jeff

Mike Parsons
04-25-2006, 05:19 PM
Hey Jeff,
The 87" uses hinge points. My 68" used CA hinges and they held up fine. On a 73" plane I would prefer to use Hinge points or Pin hinges. I know of a 72" artistic aerobat that uses CA hinges though and it has held up fine after a couple of years of use. I think your plane is the largest I would go with CA hinges. I would ensure there are enough of them (ie: 5 on each wing at a minumum).

-Mike

Jeff Boyd 2
04-26-2006, 08:05 AM
Thanks Mike,

It has 6 per aileron, 4 per elevator half, but the 3 on that big rudder makes me nervous.
Might go for hinge points. Its just a shame that the slots for the CA's are already cut. I might wick CA into the slots and redrill for HP's along side.

Jeff

Mike Parsons
04-26-2006, 05:56 PM
That is plenty on the Aileron and Elevator, but I would add at least one more on the Rudder and space them out. I think it would be ok to use them if you didnt want to go through the hassle of setting up hinge points.

-Mike

DickCorby
05-03-2006, 05:15 PM
If Yaks are your thing, the Hyperion Yak 54 is a great project. Mine went together like a dream, and with the AXI 4120, on 5S-2P it is awesome. 5 1/2 Lbsa ready for the air.

Test flown by one of our hotshot 3D and IMAC pilots, and he couldn't believe the performance with just a standard out of the box motor. Yet goes into float mode when throttled down.

Mike Parsons
05-03-2006, 05:27 PM
That is a very nice plane. I assume you are speaking of Kyle? He is an incredible pilot. I enjoy watching him fly.

-Mike

DickCorby
05-03-2006, 05:34 PM
That is a very nice plane. I assume you are speaking of Kyle? He is an incredible pilot. I enjoy watching him fly.

-Mike

Actually it was John Wondra. Kyle flew the same plane here a month or so ago, for E-Flightline, which encouraged me to build it. They were using a gearbox setup on theirs, and it too was awesome. But in Kyle's hands - Any plane can be awesome.

I now am building a Quique 72" Yak that I 've had sitting in the box for the last 6 months. Hoping to bring it in at about 8 1/2 to 9 Lbs, and it should perform well.

Mike Parsons
05-03-2006, 06:14 PM
Ahhh.. I seem to recall John's name before.

You'll like the QQ 72". It fly's great. Keep us updated :)

DickCorby
05-03-2006, 06:22 PM
Ahhh.. I seem to recall John's name before.

You'll like the QQ 72". It fly's great. Keep us updated :)

This is my second one. First one crashed 3 minutes into the most perfect test flight I've ever seen. Either someone turned on in the pits, or my transmitter failed, not real sure. Totaled it, wiped out $600 worth of batteries, etc. So it took awhile to get it all together again.

Transmitter went in and they found nothing wrong. At any rate the plane is a beauty and I know it will fly if I build it right (again).

Jeff Boyd 2
05-05-2006, 07:22 AM
Hi Dick, just for interest, my 73.5" YAK is built by the same company that makes the Hyperion . . basically a 'big sister?' I agree, the build on them is very light. I expect (hope) this one should fly nice as well.

WinginIt
09-10-2006, 09:12 PM
Hi Mike,
I am converting an Aviation Models 87" Yak. I talked to Cliff and decided to give the new Astroflight 120 a try. Don't have it yet but should be in this week.
I am projecting that the AUW should be around 17lbs with my 2 - 5s TP 8000mah for 10s. Hope to get around 3.6KW to 4KW to get over 200watts/lb. If AstroBob is correct I should be able to achieve that.

Was wondering if you still have the KW decals? Hope to put a 4KW on this one :D .

Thanks,
Doug

Mike Parsons
09-10-2006, 09:54 PM
Cool :). Looking forward to the final product!

I have plenty of 4kw and 5kw decals. Just let me know!

WinginIt
09-10-2006, 10:01 PM
Thanks Mike,

I will keep you informed.

Doug

WinginIt
10-29-2006, 10:11 PM
OK…. Finally got my Astro 120 and the Mount.

Chris Balser of Cambria Tool & Machine in Michigan made the mount. The Astro 120 of course is the latest creation of Bob at Astro Flight.

Here are a few pics. I hope to maiden tomorrow if the winds come down a bit. I will post readings as soon as I get them.

Doug

atlav8r
10-30-2006, 12:46 AM
Doug, I will be back in the office after 14 days in China on Tuesday. Glad you got the mount and look forward to the first flights!
Cliff Whitney
Atlantahobby.com

WinginIt
10-31-2006, 12:20 AM
Well jubilation turned to frustration today.

Ran static tests on 6 different props and then maidened with a 22 X 12 on 12s (see below for amps/watts). All was great. (Will post some vid later).
Started to set up for a second flight and once I connected the batts (with my Hitec transmitter “Lock” on) it suddenly armed and went to full throttle then cut off. All with no stick movement. Waited a while checked everything then tried again. Motor would not start…. would just bump on and off when throttle is engaged. I suspect it is the ESC. I had to send this 110 HV back after I first got it for starting problems. This is the first time I have used it since returned.

Anyway….. plane and motor combo is absolutely awesome as you will see in the vid even with the 15 to 20mph winds.

Here are specs:

Aviation Models 30% Yak 54
Wingspan: 87”
AUW: 17 lbs
Power: Astro 120
Batts: Tanic 5000mah 6s X 2 = 12s
ESC: CC 110HV


Static Tests:
17 X 10 … 66amps … 2838watts … 8600rpm
18 X 10 … 74amps … 3182watts … 8300rpm
19 X 12 … 92amps … 3864watts … 7400rpm
20 X 11 … 93amps … 3906watts … 7400rpm
20 X 13 … 97amps … 4074watts … 7250rpm
22 X 12 … 101amps .. 4182watts … 6800rpm

That’s all the props I had and I didn’t get to test it on my 10s TP 8000 batts because of the problem.


I will get a link to the vid asap.

Doug

Mike Parsons
10-31-2006, 01:12 AM
Glad it went well Doug. And sorry to hear of the CC problem. 4k on a single motor. That's awsome :).

WinginIt
10-31-2006, 02:06 AM
Thanks Mike,

Had 20mph winds but it still flew great. If I get these probs worked out I think I am going to love this plane.
Gonna call Cliff tomorrow and get another 110HV to make sure that is what the prob is.

Here is the vid:
http://72.41.213.220/Dad/Video/Electric%20Yak.wmv

Doug

WinginIt
10-31-2006, 07:17 PM
Just got off the phone with CC. They (and Cliff) do not have a 110HV in stock and Bernie at CC estimates 3 weeks for repair.

I am not a happy camper :mad:
Doug

Mike Parsons
11-01-2006, 03:06 AM
Sorry to hear that Doug :(. I think I remember hearing about some new controllers from Jeti coming out that are 100+ rated. I think the Jeti Spin's are 12s 90 amps with bursts to 110. I would have to reread on those though.

Crash Test Dummy
11-01-2006, 05:04 AM
Thanks Mike,

Had 20mph winds but it still flew great. If I get these probs worked out I think I am going to love this plane.
Gonna call Cliff tomorrow and get another 110HV to make sure that is what the prob is.

Here is the vid:
http://72.41.213.220/Dad/Video/Electric%20Yak.wmv

Doug
Wow!!! Nice flying. Thanks for posting a great video. I love the Yacks. I have been looking at a smaller 47 in WS Yack. I have only flown a Yack in the Real Flight sim. If it flys anything like the sim I'm gonna really love it. What do you guys think? Do they fly anything like they fly in the sim?

Thanks,
CTD

WinginIt
11-01-2006, 09:25 PM
Thanks CTD.... I watched the gassers at my flying field fly these Yaks and always wanted to electrify one. When my buddy went to a 35% I bought this one from him. He flew it with a DA50 and it seems to fly with the same authority with my electric setup.
I have Aerofly Pro and I find that the Yaks fly very similar on the sim as the do in real life.


Doug

sukhoi26mx
11-13-2006, 02:53 AM
Aviation Models 30% Yak 54
Wingspan: 87”
AUW: 17 lbs
Power: Astro 120
Batts: Tanic 5000mah 6s X 2 = 12s
ESC: CC 110HV
Doug

Doug,

Any chance you can post a picture of how you mounted the Astro 120 on your Yak?

Thanks,

Scott

WinginIt
11-13-2006, 10:50 PM
Here are some pics:


Doug

sukhoi26mx
11-13-2006, 10:52 PM
Here are some pics:


Doug

Doug,

Thanks! Did you machine that? Is it commercially available? and finally, what is the total distance from the firewall to the front of the prop adapter? I need one that looks almost identical to that for a project...

Scott

Mike Parsons
11-14-2006, 12:34 AM
Doug,

Any chance you can post a picture of how you mounted the Astro 120 on your Yak?

Thanks,

Scott
We have a living legend in our midst :). Welcome to WattFlyer Scott!

WinginIt
11-14-2006, 12:39 AM
Scott,
You can get the mount thru Cliff at Atlantahobby.com. Cliff's friend Chris is making them. It is made so you can use different length rods to accommodate different firewalls.

This one has 4.5" rods and the distance from the firewall to the backside of the prop is 6.25". You can also get 1/4" spacers to go between the plates and rods.

Doug

DickCorby
11-14-2006, 01:00 AM
Hobby Lobby also has spacer sets, that I have been using for about a year now. They're Nylon, and use bolts to go into blind nuts in the firewall. They come in different lengths, so you can get within 1/8 of an inch of length to fit any cowl. They really work great.

They also now have complete kits with Metal spacers. For me however the Nylon has worked well.

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/motor-mount.htm

sukhoi26mx
11-14-2006, 01:30 AM
We have a living legend in our midst :). Welcome to WattFlyer Scott!

Yikes! I've never seen my "baloney-meter" ever record a reading quite that high! Thanks Mike, I like what you guys are doing around here :)

Scott

Mike Parsons
11-14-2006, 01:31 AM
The local Home depot has a great assortment of these as well. Cheap too. 2 for 49 cents or something like that.

sukhoi26mx
11-14-2006, 01:33 AM
Scott,
You can get the mount thru Cliff at Atlantahobby.com. Cliff's friend Chris is making them. It is made so you can use different length rods to accommodate different firewalls.

This one has 4.5" rods and the distance from the firewall to the backside of the prop is 6.25". You can also get 1/4" spacers to go between the plates and rods.

Doug

Fantastic, Doug. Thanks! I need a total depth of 6" for a project I'm finishing up. I've give Cliff a ring in the morning. This will really simplify it greatly for me!!

Scott

WinginIt
02-06-2007, 12:18 AM
Well I finally got my Neumotors 2215 1.5Y. It is truly a BAM! :eek: The Astro 120 is a great motor but it just couldn't sustain enough amps for me to get the watts I wanted. So now I have the 2215 and I will be swinging a 27 X 13 prop. Everything it is looking like it will be great for my Yak. I have attached a couple pics.

Question: The prop adapter for this motor is an 8mm with a 3/8" shaft. Not having experience with these "really big props" (I thought my 22" props were big) what size hole should be drilled in the prop? 3/8" is obviously too small so would I drill a 7/16"? And.... the prop itself is too slim to be tightened back against the back-plate so should I just use washers to fill the space?

Thanks,
Doug

Mike Parsons
02-06-2007, 12:33 AM
Doug, Cliff told me he shipped that monster to you. Looking forward to seeing what you think.

Do you have a prop reamer? Usually just use my prop reamer one rung at a time until it feels right. And Yep, if the prop is to thin, you can use washers to fill in the gap. Just make sure that the hole in the washer is the same diameter as the shaft. You dont want any play in the washers as they might get off center and make a mess of things.

DickCorby
02-06-2007, 12:43 AM
The local Home depot has a great assortment of these as well. Cheap too. 2 for 49 cents or something like that.

Better yet! Never saw them at Home Depot, but sure will look next time I'm there.

WinginIt
02-06-2007, 10:38 AM
Thanks Mike,
The largest prop reamer I can find only cuts to 3/8". Do they make them larger?
Doug

Mike Parsons
02-06-2007, 03:29 PM
Doug,
Anything over 3/8" I use a step drill bit. You local Hardware store should have them. I have three in different sizes. My largest goes to 1 1/4" if I recall.

WinginIt
02-06-2007, 04:32 PM
Thanks Mike,
That is the answer I am looking for. I believe that will work perfectly.
Doug

larrypaul
02-06-2007, 05:18 PM
This

larrypaul
02-06-2007, 05:32 PM
This Has Been The Most Informative Post Reading That I Have Ever Seen, Have Been In Electric For Many Years, Fly Now Mostly 40 And 60 Stuff, With Very Much Success, Find That I Would Like To Go The 1/4 Scale Stuff, But Realy Cannot Afford That. My Hats Off To You Guys Who Dare The Impossible...

By The Way, Use Toothpicks Through All Your Flat Hinges. Drill Small Hole ,push Toothpick Through, Then Cycroanalate, By Dripping Onto Toothpick In Hinge, Beside Cycroanalating The Hinges, This Is An Old Tip That Has Been Used For Years, By Many Modelors, It Works!

Larrypaul

WinginIt
02-07-2007, 07:41 PM
Mike,

As it turns out the correct size prop hole for the 8mm 3/8/X24 collet adapter that I got from Cliff (which is a heavy duty type adapter) is 13/32".

I also found an Electrifly 8mm 3/8X24 (it is a lighter weight collet adapter.) and the correct prop hole for it is 25/64". I am of course using the heavier one.

You would think that the correct hole size would be marked on the packaging especially since both of these adapters are sold as 8mm 3/8X24 and with a 27" prop you sure wouldn't want any slop.

Anyway the mystery is solved. Now I need some good weather to maiden this thing with the Neumotor. The 7" of snow we got last night doesn't help my mental outlook :(

Doug

skiman762
02-08-2007, 04:19 AM
One day these things will be so big we’ll read about someone getting electrocuted at the feild :eek: :eek: :eek:

WinginIt
02-08-2007, 03:02 PM
One day these things will be so big we’ll read about someone getting electrocuted at the feild :eek: :eek: :eek:

The biggest thing I have been flying is my Giles UL 202 (76" wingspan) with a 20 X 11. I fly it on 10s with a Cyclon 160 at about 3000 watts and when I first started flying it I was a little shakey because of it's size. I guess it is all what we get used to although the spark created when hooking up the batts (especially the 12s) is a little unsettling and I use extreme caution with these big electrics.

I will say this..... Having a bigger one is so nuch more fun :D:D:D

Doug:o

skiman762
02-08-2007, 07:12 PM
The biggest thing I have been flying is my Giles UL 202 (76" wingspan) with a 20 X 11. I fly it on 10s with a Cyclon 160 at about 3000 watts and when I first started flying it I was a little shakey because of it's size. I guess it is all what we get used to although the spark created when hooking up the batts (especially the 12s) is a little unsettling and I use extreme caution with these big electrics.

I will say this..... Having a bigger one is so nuch more fun :D:D:D

Doug:o

I agree it seems like you have so much more time to react until you hit the ground then you get slapped back to reality
I think that the cost does something to your head at first then you settle down and really enjoy it ,you keep waiting for that hop when the wind picks up but it never happens

WinginIt
03-14-2007, 12:32 AM
Well I finally maidened the Yak with the Neumotors 2215/1.5Y. With my Tanic paks (2 - 6s 5000mah = 12s) and a 27 X 13 prop I got 4480 watts static. The power was awesome. Hovering just under ˝ throttle and pulling straight up from hover was amazing. BUT…. While pulling up... the prop pulled off.:mad:

I am using the Collette type adapter from Neumotors (the one they told me to use) and I had it tight so I have no idea why it came loose. The really bad thing is we looked for the prop/adapter and couldn’t find it. (That’s $70 down the drain.):(

I have some vid, it’s not the greatest but I will try to post it in the next couple days.

Not sure how to approach the adapter prob. Ideas?

Doug

Mike Parsons
03-14-2007, 02:32 AM
Doug,
That stinks! On 2k and up, I drill and tap the collet adapter for a setscrew on each side. File a flat spot on the shaft. At 4480 watts you have a lot of thrust pulling at that prop.

WinginIt
03-14-2007, 03:50 AM
Thanks Mike,
I agree. The Astro 120 that I was using originally had two flat spots on the shaft and an adapter with the set screws. I felt much more comfortable with it. I think I will take your advice and have this one drilled and taped (sp).

It has always amazed me that these collette type adapters work at all. But they do. :confused:

I will post the vid tomorrow. Not a real interesting vid but at least you get to see the prop come off :D.
Doug

WinginIt
03-14-2007, 04:15 AM
Here is the unedited vid. It is not real interesting as the first part of the flight was spent on trimming etc....
When it was time to start putting it thru the paces..... the prop seperates from the motor :mad:

Anyway you can see the power it has right before it comes off.

Doug

http://www.thehaggards.net/Dad/Video/Yak%20Vid.wmv

Mike Parsons
03-14-2007, 05:05 AM
More than enough power!

You can see right when the prop seperates. Good job getting it down in one peice. I think two setscrews like the Astro has will fix it up. I am only pushing 2700 watts into my 27% extra right now and am finding the collet slipping forward. I havent tapped it yet, but will before this weekend.

WinginIt
03-15-2007, 12:26 AM
Mike,
What do you think about one hole thru the adapter and shaft with a bolt and lock nut? I am not even sure if I could have the shaft drilled or not but it is a thought.
Doug

Mike Parsons
03-15-2007, 12:42 AM
Doug,
The only thing I worry about drilling all the way through is degredating the integrety of the shaft. It probably wouldnt hurt it, but better safe than sorry. I would just use two set screws, one on each side.

WinginIt
03-15-2007, 03:12 AM
Good point Mike

atlav8r
03-15-2007, 11:26 AM
Doug,
The only thing I worry about drilling all the way through is degredating the integrety of the shaft. It probably wouldnt hurt it, but better safe than sorry. I would just use two set screws, one on each side.


I agree! do not drill all the way through.
Doug they are sending me new adapters today so it will be monday Before I can ship to you.
CW

WinginIt
03-16-2007, 11:32 AM
Thanks Cliff.
I don't have the tools to tap the adapter so I will find a machine shop to do it for me. If it's ok send the prop and adapter to my PO.
Thanks,
Doug

WinginIt
03-18-2007, 04:54 PM
Mike/Cliff,
I have been thinking about the adapter and have a question. It is a collette type adapter so it has an outer and inner part. The outter part snaps back to lock in place so I asume I drill and tap with the outter part snaped in place (locked position).
This would seem to me to make a certain amount of guess work when installing the prop to line up the flat spots on the shaft with the screws since there will be no movement to make sure the screws are seated correctly.
Do you know a better way? Or should I use a set screw type adapter and file the flat spots accordingly?
Thanks,
Doug

Mike Parsons
03-19-2007, 09:11 PM
Doug,
You will want to drill through both the inner and outer parts.

What I would do is set the adapter on where you need it and mark the shaft at the rear of the adapter to know where to line up the adapter on the shaft itself.

fit the collets together and push back so they are snug on the shaft, but removeable. It wouldnt hurt to do this with a prop in place to keep the position. Then drill a hole through both at the rear of the collet. Put it on the shaft and slide it back to the mark you made earlier. Make a mark through the drilled holes to the shaft to know where to make your flat spot. I usually use a smaller drill bit and my drill to reach through the collet to make my mark. Remove the collet and file a spot. Secure using a set screw.

Mark the depth of the collet adapter with the drill bit and use a peice of tape to represent that depth. With the collet installed on the shaft, drill for the other retainer screw. The tape will tell you when to stop drilling and you can even go just a bit more to make the location for the flat spot.

I have to do mine tonight and can photo op it if you want.

WinginIt
03-20-2007, 08:28 PM
Great info Mike,
If you could post some pics that would be great. I understand what you are saying but pics are worth ect.....

Thanks Mike,
Doug

Mike Parsons
03-20-2007, 10:48 PM
Doug,
I did mine last night. I'll take it apart tonight and recreat the steps. It turned out really well.

WinginIt
03-21-2007, 01:15 AM
Fantastic

Thanks Mike

Doug

Mike Parsons
03-22-2007, 03:43 AM
Sorry for the delay Doug!

WinginIt
03-22-2007, 05:51 PM
Very nice work Mike.

Thank you very much for your help. This will give me much more confidence in the adapter.

Doug

Mike Parsons
03-22-2007, 05:57 PM
No problem Doug. Two of the best investments in my shop have been that drill press and a tap set. I think both components cost me a total of $80.00 and has saved tons of aggrivation.