Lost Super Cub today - twice

[marchino61]

Having just replaced the wing struts on my Cub after a big crash a week and a half ago (they were on backorder), I took advantage of calm weather to fly this morning before work.

I did all the usual pre-flight checks (I have a written checklist, following a tip in these forums), and hand launched (I have removed the landing gear).

The plane climbed (a little too steeply I thought, so I trimmed the elevator down) and spiralled to the left. I adjusted the rudder trim to compensate. It then started spiralling to the right I got the trim more or less centre, but I noticed that whenever I used the rudder and the plane started to turn, it would not stop turning, either right or left. I was using only small and momentary stick movements, correcting a little and then waiting and seeing what happened. I also used some up elevator in the turns.

I thought that a plane like the Cub should stop turning once you let the sticks centre due to its dihedral, but that did not seem to be the case. It was always spiralling one way or the other. The plane was now very high above me (it had climbed a lot while I was trimmimg) so I throttled back and tried to steer it in front of me. I then did some circles and gradually brought it down for a landing. However I was not happy with the final approach so I brought it back up. This is where my troubles began. Again I had the spiralling problems. The plane ended up over some houses. Each time I tried to bring it back it got further away (for example, as the plane was travelling across me to my left, I turned left to bring it back. Nothing happened until the plane had spiralled to the right, so then the left turn took it further away). I have been using the sim a lot and do not have this problem there to anything like the same extent.

I tried not to panic and used small stick movements. I was afraid the plane was out of range so I ran towards it. I cut the throttle (though I suspect by this time the battery had run down anyway) and eventually got it at least moving slightly toward me , though diagonally to my left. But it was getting closer. Finally I managed to bring it down with a fairly smooth landing about 200m from me. The flight had lasted about 20 minutes.

I was concerned, but happy that I did not panic and overcame the problem. I thought about packing up and going home but decided that I was doing OK and needed more practice.

So I launched again and again had the spiralling problem. Now I had an audience - someone had seen it fly over his house. This distracted me, though in all honesty, I probably would have ended up in the same way without him.

The plane got very high (I am totally unable to judge height, which makes things difficult. I have little idea whether the plane is 200' high or 1000' feet high). I throttled back but could not control the direction of flight. Once again the plane was spiralling this way and that. At one point it flew into a cloud (the cloud did not seem that low, so maybe I was too high). As I struggled with it, it flew further and further away - upwind, though the breeze was slight - and finally I lost sight of the plane due to a dark cloud.

I cut the motor and let the sticks centre and ran after it. I could not find it. I estimate it was about 800m in front of me by this time.

To cut a long story short, I spent about 20 minutes looking for the plane then I had to go to work. What worried me is that it could have hit someone or landed on a major road nearby. I had my name and number written on it (another tip from these forums), but I haven't had a call yet, 2 hours later. It might have also landed on the river - I assume it would float.

I feel very frustrated - I overcame my problem of flying too low and not using up elevator in the turns previously, but now I seem unable to control the plane at altitude or trim it properly. I lost the plane in two different directions, so I don't think wind is the problem. The plane simply seemed to respond very sluggishly to my inputs and would not fly a straight line with hands off the controls. Anyway, that's probably history now as it looks like I will be needing a new plane. Maybe a slower one?

My record so far:

Day 1 - 3 flights, one crash (minor damage)
Day 2 -1 flight, 1 crash (major damage)
Day 3 - 2 flights, 1 lost plane

Any hints on what I am doing wrong?

[Bill G]

I used a replacement Super Cub wing for a scratch build. I have the extra stuff that came with the wing, if you want it. Are the struts those thin plastic strips?

I think you may be having the same problem that I had when I started flying. I found that to come out of a turn, you have to not only use both the elevator and rudder at the same time, (done in all turns with rud/elev) but sometimes you have to really force the controls and wait for the response. I had situations where I abandoned coming out of turns, since the plane started diving when I tried to straighten it out. I found that if I had just held the rud/elev combination just a little longer, it would eventually dish out of the turn.

50 bucks also says the plane may have needed noseweight. Move the batt forward if possible. I've found that these high wing trainers are not extremely cg sensitive, but still have to be in range. They will also fly fine with a very far forward cg. Better tp far forward than rearward.
Bill

[yossarian]

Sorry to hear the trouble with your Cub. Mine is currently on duty training my dad to fly, but I don't remember those kind of instability issues at all. Other then a grossly out of wack CG I can't think of what would possibly make it behave so horribly(plus it should hav ebeen balanced out of the box). Especially on a calm day, the cub should fly it self. I'm scartching my noggin on this one.

Possibly could your wing not be on tight enough? I imagine that if there was a enough play where the wing mounts to the fuselage, it could create those kinds of flight behaivors.

[marchino61]

Thanks for the tips guys!

My plane was found in a tree at a nearby school (about 1km away - I never would have found it myself). The person who called me said they got it out undamaged :)

So after I go and get it tomorrow morning, I will check the CoG. The wing was certainly secure as I used new rubber bands, though possibly the mounting point has been loosened by previous crashes - I will check.

One thing I noticed also was that perhaps my elevator trim is still not correct. This morning I tried pushing down and diving (when high up, of course) and then just letting go of the sticks and giving full throttle to recover. I found the plane climbed but I got some porpoising - could this be because I have too much up trim on the elevator? Or maybe a CoG problem?

[yossarian]

Honestly, I think you're spending too much time worrying about trimming the Cub. These foamies are just so light, even a 3-5 mile per hour gusty wind will toss them about a bit. On a best day of flying, I could maybe trim it out for level flight and have true hands off flying for about 10 seconds. As soon as I turned and gave my self even the slightest crosswind to deal with, the trim was useless again. Don't get me wrong, the Cub should float around easily with minimal inputs and wonderful self righting capabilities, but just remember it's light.

I remember pretty much eyeballing the trim while she was on the ground. Just holding the tail and sighting down the fuselage to see if my rudder and elevator was centered.

I suggest running through your normal pre-flight and not worry about trim until your at altitude. So take off, keeping in mind that your going to want constant attention to controls until you reach your cruising altitude, THEN fiddle a little with the trim, but just a little. Adjust the trim for about 10 seconds until you feel it's better, then just enjoy the flight.
You could spend your entire flight time fiddling with the trim if you lett yourself, and it's pointeless outsdoors. Unless you truly have a 0 wind condition or are in a gymnasium, then just don't worry too much about it.

Also, run a thorough transmitter/receiver check before your next flight. Walk about 100 yards from her and make sure there is no glitches with the electronics. Watch for sudden, unanticipated servo jerks or movements. You certainly want to know about a bad receiver while she's still safely on the ground. =)

Good luck!

[constantCrash]

Actualy, i had the same type of control responce on my cub when i tried to to short of struts for the plane. What happened was the Dyhidral of the wing was removed by the struts being to tight.
Without dyhidral it's very hard to get the cub turning and stopping a turn. I would check to make sure that your wing struts are loose and allow the wingtips to flex up some.
I now use 14-16" fishing leaders for my struts. on the ground they are very loose but when you pick the plane up by the wingtips they let the wing flex upward to add even more dyhidral than what is naturaly there. (i'm spelling dyhidral wrong i know)

[mikeyv]

Well I think you kinda deserved to lose that plane. You knew it was having problems and still you had to fly it way the heck up there. This is how I got myself into trouble a couple of times. Nowadays if my plane has any problems I try to keep it close in while I keep adjusting things. I simply refuse to take it up high when I am having any problems. Wow you went into a cloud and lost sight of your plane? I think I would of started the panic about then.

Glad you got your plane back!

[Tinman]

Super Cubs can be a bit hard to fly even though they are so popular for first time flyers.

It was my first airplane too, I still fly it but I also had the same problems you did at first.

My suggestion is to really concentrate on controlling the plane. (I know that sounds liker bad advice) But it works for me. Too many people get into constantly trimming and over thinking what their plane is doing ans why it is doing it. (im not saying dont trim your airplane, you do have to have a nicely trimmed plane it makes it a lot easier)

But where I am going at is if the plane is climbing like mad, instead of trimming it right away and distration yourself from flying the plane, just simply bring the nose down. Same thing for a turn if the plane is still turning to the left and the sticks are centered by all means do what ever it takes to get the plane level. This might mean full right rudder.

All in all be aggressive when it comes to flying, don't let the plane fly you :D Do whatever it takes to keep that little bugger under control. If you need full left rudder and down elevator to keep it level just do it, sometimes you have to. Ok enough rambling hehe

[pd1]

marchino61, Glad you got your plane back.

One more small thing to add, it is not written that you must fly full power all the time.
If you're getting into a problem, reduce power. The plane will be hard pressed to continue climbing.

If the plane is over reacting to your control inputs, reducing power will make the plane much easier to control.

Don't try to fly until you're out of battery power, better to make a number of short flights than to have the plane crash because the battery is dead.

Good luck

[Tinman]

Yeah PD is right, when I first flew my Cub I was getting really really dizzy!!!! Then I pulled the power back to about 60% on my next few flights. You get more reaction time.

[marchino61]

Thanks to everyone for the tips they posted above.

I haven't been able to fly since the day I lost the plane, until today. I also could not use the SIM since the cable I got from MileHighWings was faulty, and has been sent back. However, I did get some stick time with a Picoo Z indoor helicopter (I wanted an Aero Ace but could not get hold of one here), so at least I had some familiarity with the controls and the importance of being gentle with them.

I checked to CoG as advised and found it was about 8mm behind CoL. This may be due to removing the landing gear. The landing gear weighs about 20g, and is only just in front on the CoG, so to compensate I taped a 20 cent coin (11g) to the fuselage jsut behind the cowl. When I checked the CoG again, it was perhaps 1 to 2mm in front of the CoG, so that's how I left it.

I also put some filler in the wing slot in the fuselage - it had "grown" after the previous crashes, and I thought that might have allowed the wing to move.

I hand launched the plane this morning in zero wind and it climbed out smoothly, turning to the left, but not as badly as before (I had a lot of right trim on, knowing it would do that). I climbed to maybe 150' and cut throttle down to maybe 50-60% to avoid going too high. I started to fly circles, but once again, the plane started to get away from me, spiralling this way and that. Again the dihedral did not seem to help the plane to right itself.

It started going away over the same houses where I almost lost it last time. I tried to get it back but as I did so it started to drop, so I gave it full throttle. However it continued in a death spiral. I was using the elevator in the turns, but probably not the right amount. I am now thinking that - at least at first - it would be better simply to increase throttle in the turns until I can get used to the controls. I was really worried it would hit a house, but luckily it hit a chain link fence on an empty lot between two houses.

Damage: broken propeller (my first, surprisingly), broken cowl and broken firewall (again). Luckily I ignored the advice of my LHS to fix the firewall in with epoxy, and used PVA adhesive instead. Even then it was quite hard to remove.

I feel very worried when flying this plane. Sooner or later I am going to hit someone or something. The fence it crashed into was about 300m away from me, and the flight only lasted a couple of minutes.

I think I need to get a slower plane. Could anyone recommend something slower, but would still fly reasonably outside (at last with little wind)?

BTW, I am sure someone will suggest I go and learn with an instructor at the local field. It's a good idea, but the only field near here does not accept 27 MHz planes.

[Leo L]

The ParkZone Slow-V (RTF), the GWS Slo-Stick (ARF) and all of the copy-cats are the slowest flying planes that are suitable for beginners. I don't have direct experience with the SloStick, but my son learned how to fly on his own, using the Slow-V, last summer. If you get the Slow-V, get the optional 7-cell battery right away. Using the 7-cell battery, set the wing all the way forward (to compensate for the additional weight) and set the transmitter controls to High Rate. As long as you fly when there is virtually no wind, you'll have a great time.

I suspect that a major contributor to your Cub' problem was the repair the you made to the firewall. You probably didn't give the motor enough right offset, which made the plane try to twist and spiral to the left. Trying to correct this tendency with trim makes the plane unstable, resulting in the actions that you described. Pulling too tight on the wing struts, as someone mentioned previously, probably added to the problem. Get yourself a Slow-V and enjoy slow flying, while taking your time to rebuild the SuperCub. Eventually you'll be at a level of flying where you will be ready to take the SuperCub back in the air.

[marchino61]

Thanks for the plane suggestions. I am interested in the Slow Stick but it seems hard to obtain here in Australia. I am not so sure about the Slo-V as Parkzone recommends it only for experienced flyers who already have experience of a Hobbyzone "zone 2" or "zone 3" plane (Super Cub is Zone 1). Maybe your son is rather more skilful than me? :)

I was also looking at the Firebird Phantom, but I think I need to wait until Horizon gets the problems with the boom sorted out.

On the last firewall repair, I replaced the whole firewall. Of course the foam it mounts onto could have been distorted, but the propeller id still seem to have some offset. The struts were mounted very slackly, but since they seem to be a weak point, I am thinking of replacing them with a carbon fibre strip as some people have suggested.

[marchino61]

Hi again!

I bought a Silverlit X-Twin (USA: Air Hogs Aero Ace) yesterday from Toys'R'Us.

Took it to a park near where I work at lunchtime.

Although it was a bit breezy (maybe 3 or 4mph), the plane was fabulous. It may be onlt a toy, but I could fly happily without worrying about crashing.

This is fantastic - the whole thing (@ AU$ 40) costs less a single one of my Super Cub crashes :)

It also showed me why my Cub might have been spiralling further and further from me - the effect of the wind on the X-Twin was eerily similar to the way the Super Cub behaved last time I flew. Maybe there was wind higher up although it was calm at ground level?

I now realise that when it is windy like that and you turn into the wind, you have to stop turning very early (at least with this plane) , or the plane turns through the wind and ends up going downwind. You end up basically having to tack into the wind.

By the time I had run through two charges I was keeping the plane close to me and in the air even in these non-ideal conditions.

I think I will stick with this for now - learn the controls and get a better idea of how flight works.

After that maybe a GWS e-starter, if I can put the electronics from my PZ Spitfire into it (not sure the fuse is big enough). I have two complete Spitfire fuselages with electronics, and one complete except for the ESC/RX which I burnt out.

[Tinman]

Good for you Marchino!

I just bought one of those Aero Aces (US) last week. Your right they are loads of fun to fly and inexpemsive. I think everyone should get one!

Good luck!

[bassplayinDude]

I picked up a single wing Aero Ace last week, along with a mini storm launcher. It's definitely given my the flying bug which lead me to spend most of the weekend searching (how I found this place) on what to get for my first 3 channel park plane.

[on topic :) ]
I'm looking to pick up the Super Cub as my first plane but I was looking at the recommended flying space and was wondering how I could eyeball the 600x600 space? I know of a couple baseball fields in the area I could probably take over for an hour but have no idea how close to 600x600 that would be.

[marchino61]

Another member here from Perth (gmd174) gave me a great idea for finding a big enough space - use Google Earth! It has a scale so you can easily see how big an area is.

Excellent for finding clear areas that you might never have noticed from ground level.

[bassplayinDude]

marchino61,

That is a great idea! I never would've thought of that. Thanks!

[yossarian]

Congratulations on finding a fun plane! I's not a toy, it's just cheap. ;-)

The wind could have absolutely been a factor in your SC experiences. As a good rule of thumb, think of your flying space in three layers. There's 0-3 feet range, very close to the deck. This is the air that you land and take off in. It's usually calm and you get the benefit of extra lift generated by something known as 'ground effect'. It can make judging when to flare on landing kinda tricky, your plane will sometimes seem to float along withough touching down. Welcome to ground effect. ;-)

Above this level, usually up to about 50 feet or so. You can expect to get some gusts, if there is any wind at ground level, it will be a bit more pronounced at this height. Think of it as the comfortable cruising height. It's not so high that it's hard to spot the plane, but enough altitude to recover if it gets away from you. Above this altitude you can get some much stronger winds. There's so many variables that can effect the wind, but knowing that you can expect different winds at these three basic levels will let you stay ahead of the plane hopefully.

You mentioned the PZ spitfire. I would not recommend this plane. It's a great plane, but not for a beginner at all. Any of the scale planes usually have more difficult flight characteristics especially a historical warbird. Very experienced pilots will crash these planes, usually on take off. I've seen too many video's of the dreaded wingtip stall on take off, then it's usually a torque roll into the ground.
It must be thoroughly rewarding to build a fly one of these scale warbirds, but you have to be ready to accept the consequences.

[Balil]

the problem with the super cub to me sounds like the wing is/was warped. if the wing is warped it will cause it to act as a permant aileron causing it to yaw to the low side of the warp, which will lead to a stall and a spiral/spin. check the wing. if it is warped go buy another one, honestly the parts for the sc arent that expensive....

[yossarian]

Balil, beautiful paint scheme on your stryker there. Did you use painter tape or something to get those lines?

And is it true that stripes make it faster?

[Balil]

thanks, and i didnt tape off anything, i painted them by hand. lol its funny im still looking for that stryker.

[yossarian]

LOL it is rather camoflauged isn't it. I doubt i could find that thing in a tree or knee high grass. Sorry to hear it's awol though. :{

[Balil]

ive got another one sitting on my table just screaming to be finished. i looked for the blue one for about 4 days and i finally gave up on it. i'll probably find it one of these days when im out flying and not even looking for it

[yossarian]

Exactly, it will find you when it's ready. ;-)

I almost lost my styker this weekend. I tree darted it at WOT. The only way we found it was by activating my servos in a wierd game of Marco Polo. it was in the highest part of an old tree, I needed to climb a long ways just to get in range with the tent poles. But by the time I got back with the poles, it was on the ground. 5 minutes of duck tape later she was flying again. :tc:

I'm sure this has been done before, but I'm thinking of trying for a decent Blue Angels theme on my spare fuse. I'm terrible at painting though, we'll see. ;-)

[Balil]

painting just takes patience, kinda like learning to fly.... my mother paints for a living so i think im going to have her throw some killer flames on the fuse i have in the shop. i think when my stryker went down though i either threw the battery or disconnected the esc from the rx because i walked the field several times in the area she went down moving the throttle/servos and i couldnt hear anything. you're lucky you found yours. im thinking about going and buying another RTF stryker c this weekend just to get back in the air...

[yossarian]

hahah I've done that more times than my pocket book cares to remember. But it's nice having a spare everything too.

[Balil]

ive seen some pretty decent blue angels paint scheme's, i like something that stands out in a crowd of strykers.... if i get a new RTF stryker C im going to tape razor blades to the wing tips for some full contact combat :D

[yossarian]

Remind me not to combat you!

Funny stryker combat story though...

Me, my brother and some friends all got strykers at the same time with the idea of using those sonic combat modules. We weren't into full contact yet. During session between my brother and a friend, somehow my bro managed to bring his plane down vertically, in a dive and flew right through our friends plane. My brother lost a prop and glided in safely and our friends plane came down in two large pieces! To add to the drama, as we aproached the wreckage, it began to smolder. It shorted the battery wire on impact! I'm just sad we didn't get it on vid.

[Balil]

lol ive done combat with buzzards and hawks with my strykers... talk about fun to down a full grown buzzard with a foam airplane.... it was bitter sweet revenge for my gws me 109 than a buzzard obliterated

[yossarian]

I love that. I was engaged by a smaller, darty bird this weekend. it was so fast it coulld get behind me, which caused me to kill the throttle lest I hit the bird with it. I'm a softy I know. But so much fun!

I'm still looking over my shoulder for the EPA though. ;-)

[Balil]

it seems when i throw up a stryker at my personal flying field every buzzard for MILES shows up. so i just go after em.... i'll have to video it saturday or sunday depending on when i buy my next stryker

[yossarian]

Oh yea, definetly get a video of that! Those buzzards must be bigger than the plane!

What happened to your F109? Did a buzzard get it in flight?!

[jneal]

I think I need to get a slower plane. Could anyone recommend something slower, but would still fly reasonably outside (at last with little wind)?




Take this for what it's worth. I just flew my first flight ever yesterday but the Electristar carried me right through it. I ended up doing 6 different flights yesterday afternoon and by the end I was a little more at ease with the plane controls. It handles wind well. It was me that didn't handle wind well. Little suprise bursts of wind caught me off guard but the plane still ended the flight fairly gracefully. Just something to look at.

[yossarian]

Have you considered a sail plane style? If you have room in your vehicle for a longer wingspan, like say up to 70" or so, I'd go for that. Sail planes make great trainers and you can get them with electric motors like this one...http://www.multiplexusa.com/models/ParkFliers/EasyGliderE.htm

Sail planes can fly very slow, have tons of lift and are easy to see because of their wingspan. Great for learing orientation.

I'm almost done building the MP easy glider electric. Won't get a flight in until next week though, I'll try to give a good report on it.

[marchino61]

Thanks for the suggestions. I looked around at other planes. The Easy Star still attracts me, but I am worried that spare parts are not readily available in Perth.

If anyone is still interested in the continuing saga of my Super Cub, read on. If not, switch off now..... :)

I have been flying the X-Twin whenever I could (usually struggling against the wind) and put in a couple of hours sim time in the last two days.

On Sunday morning, I got up early (just about the only time it is calm here) and went to my new flying field in Cannington. Not only is this a bit larger than the park in South Perth where I flew before, it is normally completely deserted and there are no houses around. This does wonders for my confidence (there are still trees and pylons to avoid, however).

I flew the X-Twin around for a while, putting it up high to check the wind. There was none -the first time I have ever experienced stable flying with the X-Twin. So I thought I would take a chance with the Cub. I did my pre-flight checks and noted the CoG was right on the CoL. I have now marked the centre of the wing so I can align everything when I pt the wing on (not using the strusts now - have reinforced the wing with CF).

The first time I launched it, it climbed well (as it usally does, until that point I had rarely had difficulties with hand launches), and I trimmed it straight and reduced throttle. I flew around at perhaps 60-80 feet noting that after I turned, the plane tended to stay turned unless I applied some opposite stick. This may account for the"spiralling" I experienced earlier. The dihedral self-corrects to some extent, but not completely.

I did two flights on the first battery, practising my landings. I noted I tended to flare too early so the plane rose into the air then bounced down to land. Landings were hard, but no damage done. I also practised stalling at a safe height.

On to the second battery. On the first launch the plane almost dipped down into the ground before climbing. I then noticed the trim tab had moved to max. down elevator. Damn those tabs! They stand up too much and have little resistance to movement. I really must find my Blu-Tack to fix them in place. I readjusted the tab and the flight went well. Again the landing left a lot to be desired. However, I felt a lot more in control than on previous flying days, able to circle and do eights under control. I used the throttle rather than elevator to maintain height in the turns, but i am practising using the elevator with the sim.

Still on the second battery, I launched again, but this time the plane veered sharply to the right and before I could correct, it cartwheeled into the ground, damaging the eggshel-like cowl (of course, even though it was bound with tape) and breaking off the tail of the fuselage and the rudder control from the rest of the rudder - or maybe it was already broken to some extent? Either that or the rudder trim tab had moved. I can think of no other way to account for this weird behaviour.

This one looks difficult to repair. I can stick the tail back on the fuselage, but I am not sure a repair to the rudder will be strong enough - I am worried I could do more damage by having it break during flight. Maybe I should buy a new tail? I tried epoxying it back on last night, so we shall see.

I am also concerned about the repair putting extra weight in the tail as the plane was already a bit tail-heavy. I would like to move the battery forward, but don't see how as it is such a tight fit in the battery box.

Anyway, overall things are improving. I was gaining a lot of confidence until that last disastrous launch.

I will keep practising with the sim and X-Twin and hope to fly the Cub again next weekend.

[yossarian]

The repairs you made should be fine. If you're really worried about it though, I think you can buy the bare fuselages without the electronics. Should be reasonably priced I'd think.
Also, I find hand launching more difficult than Running off of pavemant with the SC. If at all possible, can you find a cricket field or lonely road with a field next to it, that you could practice ROG's?
It does two things for you right from the start. You'll have your hands safely at the controls through the entire take-off phase and you are letting the plane fly it self. It will lift off when it has enough airspeed and it will be at the correct attitude from the start. The trouble I found handlaunching the SC was getting the pitch and strength of toss just right. The stock motor just isn't powerful enough to save you if you toss it wrong. In some ways, overpowering a trainer, even a little bit, is kinda like a safety net.

Concerning your landing flare timing issue, are you coming in dead stick? Or lengthing your glide slope with a bit of throttle? It might be easier to give it about 1/4 throttle on final, this will make your glide path more shallow than if you were coming in dead stick. When you get to about 1 meter above the deck, cut the throttle and gently flare. Don't be afraid to let the wheels touch down even if you think you are going to fast. It probably will just stick and run out nicely, rarely have I seen my SC bounce back into the air on touchdown, unless I've got a good headwind.

[marchino61]

Re. landing, I am coming in with some throttle until uabout 1m up, as you suggest.

I fly without the landing gear, after tearing out the battery box in a crash. I decided that the gear exerts too much leverage over the battery box and it is safer to fly without. Especially as my new field has fairly long grass.

Re. the repair, I don't anticipate having problems with the fuselage repair - I am more concerned that I have re-attached a small piece of rudder containing the control linkage and tail wheel to the main part of the rudder. I am not sure if it will hold - if necessary I will buy a new tail assy.

[yossarian]

My knee jerk reaction is the repair would be fine. I mean, it's not a hotliner and I can't imagine there being too much pressure on the repair site, even if you're giving full rudder deflection in a dive. It would seem to me that even duct tape would be suffecient, though I don't doubt you at least glued it. I'm told that when CA cures, it's stronger than the foam you replaced it with. ;)
You certainly don't want your rudder to fail in flight, but my guess is it will break on landing, if it ever does, so just check the repair after each landing.

[Prof100]

I am amazed how difficult a time you are having the Super Cub. That plane is the most forgiving plane I have ever flown. I hadn't flown for 9 years and I bought one to use as a trainer and to tune me up again. My first flight with the Super Cub was in 25 mph wind. The upwind leg was pretty slow and the downwind leg was something to behold. Taking off into a head wind is really easy. Landings are a real adventure with the flat bottom wing. I don't advice it if your truly are a novice.

I did find a few things about the plane that can make flying it difficult. One, is that the rubber bands that come with the kit are kind of puny. I added two more to tighten down the wing to the fuselage. I also noticed that if your aren't careful you can mount the wing offset to one side or another which makes turning one way real easy and the other way is a real adventure. I have since marked the centerline with a magic marker so everything is kept square. Lastly, the tail mounts to the fuselage using two screws. I found that you need to make sure you get those tight using a real screwdriver not the little toy thing that comes with the kit. I found this when I notice the horizontal stabilzer would pivot back and forth. I would suggest you check these things because your problem sounds like it could be caused by things moving around on the plane as it goes through the air.

Good luck and have fun. These are great planes to learn how to fly and (for me) to get my old flight skills back in order so I can step up to some new level of electric flight.

[marchino61]

Maybe I am having problems because I am a lousy flyer!

I also noticed the tendency of the wing to move, especially after several crashes have enlarged the slot it fits into. So I reinforced the slot and , like you, marked the centre on both wing and fuselage to line it up.

Same problem with the tail too, plus another problem - the head of one screw tends to get chewed up when I try to tighten it more. I found it was not just the screws - the holes in the fuselage had got enlarged (again probably due to crashing), so I wrapped some tape around the dowels on the tail that plug into the fuse.

I'm inclined to think my last crash was either caused by my moving a trim tab accidentally, or else the tail part of the fuselage was already loose on take off (it was broken after the crash, but I had noticed it was flexing a bit before.

I am putting in a lot more sim time, and hope for better results this weekend (if the wind drops).

[Prof100]

Maybe I am having problems because I am a lousy flyer!

I also noticed the tendency of the wing to move, especially after several crashes have enlarged the slot it fits into. So I reinforced the slot and , like you, marked the centre on both wing and fuselage to line it up.

Same problem with the tail too, plus another problem - the head of one screw tends to get chewed up when I try to tighten it more. I found it was not just the screws - the holes in the fuselage had got enlarged (again probably due to crashing), so I wrapped some tape around the dowels on the tail that plug into the fuse.

I'm inclined to think my last crash was either caused by my moving a trim tab accidentally, or else the tail part of the fuselage was already loose on take off (it was broken after the crash, but I had noticed it was flexing a bit before.

I am putting in a lot more sim time, and hope for better results this weekend (if the wind drops).

Simulator time should help and sim crashes are very inexpensive.

If your tail is loose and worn oversize buy some Goop or Shoo Goo and run a bead or even a dab on each side to keep it from pivoting. Apply it where the horizontal stabilizer and the fueselage meet. A dab on bottom side will help with preventing the stabilizer from rocking.

[phillipmorris]

Hi Everyone:

I'm not the best pilot at all....

I'm such a bad flyer I've made a new mistake nearly each outing...tho mangaged several dozen flights on the SC (have had sailplane experience years ago) the SC handles rather similar, does not always respond to a control right away, and hidden elevated winds also effect the turn effect...gave a complete newbie the controls at 300 feet plus altitude to attempt circles, showed the short pulse method, a pulse, two quick pusles, absolutely no holding of the control, newbie did fine the first turn, then all heck broke lose, trying more control was holding the stick all the way to the left waaaay too long, then max to the right again Holding, spirled badly, I replied, Let Go Of The Control, SC rightened and back to pulses few more correct circles....



On the trim, mine gets bumped when I least expect it, good advice to keep noting position during flight....

All excited accomplished my first hard surface landings with ease as near zero winds ground level, one approach came in too high and swirved to miss basket backboard, and SC twisted lightly on the grass, failed to note the wing shifted out of position, wondered why I needed so much stick control on hand launch, then spiraled in but low altitude only cracked the cowling slightly, always preflight check on each launch...

My other errors are far too numerous, but include
launching down-wind
nearly put the wing on backwards more than once but noted intime
lose orientation when at low altitude, a bummer
catching zero wind early am before enough light, have to see it to fly..
checked trims before take off, ok, swithed hand bumped trim, why is it going left...????
used wrong smaller battery from another plane, only 30 second flight what gives..????

Should have wrote these all down as were many and sure more to come...hi hi..<>..

BEST
phillipmorris

[Gnascher]

Regarding your broken rudder ...

I had the exact thing happen to me when I was belly-landing. It seems the tail wheel exerts quite a bit of force on the rudder in a belly landing.

If you're going to continue flying without the main gear, you should probably remove the tailwheel too.

I fixed my rudder with toothpicks in the foam, 5 min epoxy, and then I epoxied some short lengths of nylon wire-tie across the joint to make sure it stayed strong. Any added weight was really minimal.

Overall, it sounds like you're progressing well keep at it and don't get discouraged.

[marchino61]

Thanks for the tip on the rudder - I removed it.

We had a spell of very stormy weather in Perth, but that has cleared up now and I have taken the SC out twice in the last week.

On the first flight just over a week ago, I flew in very calm dusk conditions, after having practised by flying through one charge with my X-Twin.

When rebuilding the fuselage where it broke off at the tail, it seems I had some trouble getting it straight. I was anticipating trim problems, so I decided to hand launch the plane with the motor off to check the trim. It seemed OK, so after the normal checks I hand luanched with WOT.

The plane climbed OK initially, but then it veered to the right and stalled, crashing on a wingtip and cartwheeling. The prop was broken and again the tail broke off (but in a different place).

I decided that this time when I rebuilt the fuselage, I needed to strengthen and align the tail so I bought some 1.5mm CF rod and used three short pieces of this as dowels to align the two pieces of fuselage when I stuck them together again. This allowed me to get much better alignment of the tail. I hoped it would also add strength to the repair.

Before flying again I checked the CoG, which seemed OK.

So back to the field, this time early on Sunday morning, and with perfect dead calm conditions. Again I flew the X-Twin to warm up, and again test launched the SC with power off. It launched straight but after initially climbing, it stalled. Was it too little up elevator or too much? After examining the plane, I decided too little, so added some up to the trim tab. I checked again that the tailplane and wing were centred properly and straight.

Hand launched WOT. Nice climb initially, but then the plane turned sharply to the right and into the sun, so I could not see it. I blindly gave some left stick and then some up elevator, but to no avail, and I crashed while still trying to adjust, so throttle was wide open. Again I cartwheeled on a wing (amazingly no damage to the taped-up wing). Another prop was broken and this time the impact badly damaged the fuselage - the left side of the cockpit was torn apart, whilst the right side was crushed. So now the fuselage is badly distorted.

I think now is the time to buy a new fuselage and possibly a new tail as well. At least then I will have new, straight parts, so I can trim the plane properly. The last two flights have been bitterly disappointing - each flight is worse than the last rather than better. A total of no more than 30 seconds in two "flights". It is hard to remember now that when I first got the cub I had a day with three flights and nothing worse than damaging one of the wings struts....seems such a distant memory.

Despite all the sim time and flying the X-Twin (flying towards myself is second nature now) I am not having much luck with the Super Cub.

[Landing Gear]

Hi
It's sad news about the problems you are having with the SC my mate down the road has a Firebird Commander 2 (Zone 1) which we fly together, some of the problems we have found which may or may not also be happening to your plane are -
1/ On the tail of the FC 2 the plastic coating over the foam on the V section where the right rudder tilts lifted from the foam so the plane started going left hand turns and trim only barely changed it, to fix this we totally removed the flaps and some of the plastic covering and covered both sections with contact adhesive and attached the flap with packing tape, fixed that problem.;-)
2/ We have flown the FB 2, 15-20 times and the other day on the first flight the plane just kept climbing, now we had done all pre-flight checks and everything was ok but for no reason this thing was almost out of sight it was that high, my mate has the motor off and could only turn it but still it climbed!!!
I took the controls from him and pushed the throtle trim full negitive and circled left and right now this thing has been in the air over 20min and my neck was hurting from looking up so Im handed the controls back to Rob, well it was coming down slowly, long story short the throtle was running approx 10% when left at neutral and the only way to not have the motor run/buzz was to trim it back yet we had no sign of this during pre flight checks???
Hope this give you some idea's as to what these planes will do all on their own!:blah:
Cheers Lawrence

[Gnascher]

I expect a lot of the trouble you're experiencing is accumulated damage and repair to your airframe. More than likely things are subtly twisted, warped or otherwise out of balance and are making it extremely difficult for anybody, let alone a novice, to successfully fly the plane.

Get that new fuse and tail ... put it together ... and hopefully you'll have a different experience.

[III Bones Air Force]

Hello Marchino:

Hope things are going better for you by now. I agree with others on here that are advising you not to attempt triming the elev/rud while in flight. What I would do is conduct all flight check related stuff on the ground and I would I make sure that the moving surfaces are centered/true. moving trim knob in my view is part of the flight check. Some of what you have described happened to me to some degree early on when I first got the SC. I would venture to say that my similar experience was tied directly to me not being able to tell the craft oreintation rather than the plane not responding, or me giving it the wrong input. That is besides the fact that I would not know what the right input would be at distances greater than may be 300' - 400'. In addition during flight (no matter the trim issues) you are constantly providing input to correct for updrafts, wind from various directions, and of course trying to steer the plane where you want it to go.

You can check out my posts at the link below if you want detailing other issues I had with the SC before it even got off the ground OR grass for that matter.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19632

[marchino61]

I am not going to be flying any time soon. I spoke to Modelflight (who I believe is the Hobbyzone importer for Australia) and they tell me they have no Super Cub fuselages and don't know when they will get more!

Looks like I could be out of action for many weeks as the fuselage is too distorted to repair now.

I can't order from USA as this part is too large to ship economically.

[brnyrbbl]

Have you tried getting the parts from here? http://www.modelflight.com.au/popup/parts_super_cub_list.htm

[marchino61]

Have you tried getting the parts from here? http://www.modelflight.com.au/popup/parts_super_cub_list.htm

In a word, yes. I think they are the importer, as I mentioned in my post.

[StrayDog]

One other "post Crash" item to check.

the servos can pop out of their mounts and throw your trim and control setting off. Plus they will now move in flight and return to a different postion each time you move the stick.

I had a new flyer at the club a few weeks back with this problem. He had one simi-successful flight, one crash, replaced the prop and cowel and then could not control the plane. He then got in contact with our club. The crash had losened the servos. They popped back into the mountings without any problem and we were able to complete several flights.

Trim: as others have said, few planes will hold straight and level for over a few seconds, the lighter the plane the shorter the time.

However, we all learn the fun is in flying the plane "all the time". Trim just gets you close so you don't have to hold the stick half-way to the corner of your transmitter all the time. You will always be making fine control inputs, just as you do driving. It's a big deal now while learning to fly. Latter it's part of the "accomplishment"

The spriraling problem would lead me to check all the control system for anything lose. Servos, pushrod connections, control horns, especially for the rudder. Sounds like it is not returing to center. There is a mecahnical reason somewhere, especially if it is not responding to reverse rudder.

Good luck and persist, we have all been there, just forgotten when!??

JT

[phillipmorris]

Apologize for the comment here, but mine came in abit hard early, re-launched the SC and it flew strange and spiraled in, no big damage, turns out the main wing shifted on previous hard knock...the winds, the winds, even light breezes can be unforgiving, had thermals going on and wall of these fooled me on take off, popped the plane back, came too low manged to recover barely missing the rooftop of the Jr High building, then off for a great flight..

My landings, not the best tho steadily improving, can land in the pkg lot, but yesterday missjudged as it lowered in, again some breezes, and tried to make a basket, hit the backboard hard enought to snap a wing, easy fix w/tape as all pieces there..still flying...treed 6 days, broke rear fuselage, tape again and some on cowling for counter balance, it flys great..presistance helps, will fly this thing dang thing sometime, up to plus 100 flights and still learning everytime, and altitude, this puppie will thermal out of sight, ya gotta love it...BEST ..<>..

A note, notice on the harder landings not unusual to adjust the clevis's for trim flight, things simply get moved, and its easy to bump a trim unknowingly prior to lanunch, the plane reacts to winds, you will have a trim off example if it keeps circling, but note entering other side of an uncoming wind the plane goes abit other direction, this is all normal, have to keep flying, pulse the controls, ground level especially early mornings near or acutally zero wind, but altitude something else going on, sometimes so much breeze up there mine has kited, with no wind on the ground, watch for these conditions frequent early AM flights for me...Keep Flying ..<>..

[WishIWasAPunkRocker]

Hi Marchino: MAS Hobbies in Wanneroo have SC Fuselages and a good range of ParkZone & HobbyZone spares - although you'd better hurry up - I'm fast stripping there stocks!

I bought an SC around a month ago and also found my self terrified of hitting someone or causing a car accident by having it get out of control and land (read: crash) on a road. Either way I ended up finding a spot out at (surprise, surprise) Cannington - There is an awful lot of dead/empty land out there that you sort of just don’t notice until you go looking for it.

Anyway, best of luck with getting your SC back in the air...

[marchino61]

Either way I ended up finding a spot out at (surprise, surprise) Cannington - There is an awful lot of dead/empty land out there that you sort of just don’t notice until you go looking for it.


Thanks for the tip re. Wanneroo - I will give them a call today.

I too found a new flying field at Cannington! Maybe the same place on Kenwick Link? It is nearly always deserted, except for the occasional person walking their dog.

I often go there early morning on Saturday or Sunday. Now the mornings are getting lighter I will probably be there weekdays too as soon as I get my SC rebuilt.

[marchino61]

Well, it took a long time to get all the parts together, and then the weather was bad. I also needed to get some sim time in after a two month absence from flying. However, prompted by Adam (WishIWasAPUnkRocker) and a calm, sunny day, I took the Super Cub back to my old field in Cannington.

I discovered it was now waterlogged after all the rain we have had, but at least the grass had grown longer to cushion my crashes!

The plane now has a new fuselage and horizontal stab, plus 36 MHz gear with a TX the same as the one I was using on the sim, to make things easier.

I trimmed it out by gliding it until I was happy it was gliding straight and climbing gently. Then I launched with power but (as usual) it veered to the right and did not gain height. I cartwheeled into the ground but fortunately did no damage.

I trimmed more to the left and tried again - similar result.

Trimmed more to the left - still it veered to the right, but not so much and I was able to catch it. But now it was climbing too steeply, porpoising and stalling. I decided just to get it down and re-trim the elevator on the ground, but I could not control it. I trimmed the elevator right down, but started spiralling and hit a tree, by chance just as Adam appeared with his heavily modded Super Cub.

Today's damage - fuse broken at the back of the battery hatch and distorted (again), plus a broken prop. I will epoxy it back together and take her out again tomorrow if the weather permits.

[phillipmorris]

It takes persistance to get things going, I use max power on hand launch or ground take off then reduce throttle slightly, seems to be easier to control on low altitude with just abit reduced power as things can stahl at max power as into too steep of an attack angle...also amazing how things change with slightest breezes, you simply have to learn to react but don't hold the control too long etc...I've actually had more close calls on low altitude launches with the Super Cub than the simple Phantom as it flys abit quicker than the SC...my experience the Phantom has less problem w/stahls..<>.make the turns very slowly and just concentrate on keeping the wings level...there is often a delay, you will soon learn to fly abit ahead of the responses and will have less problems, just need practice...things eventually improve...<>..just a thought you might be giving too much elevator trim, if it roller-coasters or stahls adjust with abit of down trim...I find I have a notch or two of down trim w/max power, then elevate the trim couple notches w/reduced power..<>..keep flying...<>..BEST..<>..

[marchino61]

It takes persistance to get things going, I use max power on hand launch or ground take off then reduce throttle slightly, seems to be easier to control on low altitude with just abit reduced power as things can stahl at max power as into too steep of an attack angle...also amazing how things change with slightest breezes, you simply have to learn to react but don't hold the control too long etc...I've actually had more close calls on low altitude launches with the Super Cub than the simple Phantom as it flys abit quicker than the SC...my experience the Phantom has less problem w/stahls..<>.make the turns very slowly and just concentrate on keeping the wings level...there is often a delay, you will soon learn to fly abit ahead of the responses and will have less problems, just need practice...things eventually improve...<>..just a thought you might be giving too much elevator trim, if it roller-coasters or stahls adjust with abit of down trim...I find I have a notch or two of down trim w/max power, then elevate the trim couple notches w/reduced power..<>..keep flying...<>..BEST..<>..

I also launch at full power. Launching is not a problem. I don't stall on launch unless (as it has been) the trim is so far out that the model is banked almost 90 degrees.

I think I am having trouble with the delay, and also with overcontrolling. I have done plenty of sim time, but all the versions of the Cub in FMS are much easier to fly than the actual model and also FMS seems to give you a lot more time to react before you crash.

Anyway, here's the dismal tale of my latest flight: I finally managed to drag myself out of bed early enough to fly this morning...and wished I hadn't!

On my last flight the plane was spiralling to the right, so I gave the rudder clevis two turns to the left. I was worried I might have overdone it but no - still veered to the right, only not as much! Put trim tab all the way to left and it nearly straightened out.

But by this time the plane was getting away from me though there was no wind. And when I turned right it lost altitude alarmingly. I tried to bring it back but could not get it under control. It was at this point I was probably overcontrolling - turning the plane too far, then having to try to turn back again.

Finally I could see it was getting too far away so I gave it full throttle to try to avoid going down in the trees. But it was too late - it spiralled down.

I then found out that a river runs through the middle of the trees, so I had to drive several km to the other side. I then could not find any bearings to help me locate the plane. The houses on that side were also surprisingly close - it could have gone down in one of their back gardens.

Anyway, for the moment it is lost, though tonight I will use Google Earth to try to estimate where it went down - I reckon it was 500 or 600m from me.

This might be the end of my flying "career" unless I can pick up something cheap (and slower) on eBay. I just lost over $100 worth of brand new parts in that Cub: fuselage, RX, ESC, servos - all new as of last Saturday.

[marchino61]

I went searching for my plane today, but no luck. In any case, the area where it went down was a swamp, so even if I find it, most of the parts might be ruined anyway (especially with the torrential rain we had yesterday).

So instead, I unleashed my credit card and splurged about $150 at United Hobbies for a Slow Stick, and a pile of brushless motors, BESCs and servos, plus a few spares. I also ordered a "BE Found" in the hope it might help we locate my plane the next time I lose one.

UH was out of stock of receivers and LiPos, so I need to buy an Rx locally. I will use NiMH batteries for the time being.

I am hoping that with this slower plane (I intend to use the standard brushed motor initially), I will have more chance of getting some practice hours in without too many further disasters.

[Sir Raleigh]

Can you post a link for the "BE Found"? Trying to do a Google search for those two words is useless.

Thanks.

[marchino61]

The "Be Found" is made by GWS.

http://www.gwsus.com/english/product/auxcircuit/befound.htm

[Sir Raleigh]

Thanks.

[phillipmorris]

Hope you find it, mine was treed for 6 days and 2 days of rain, it was inverted in the tree, and still flys, you would think with the amount of flight time I wouldn't make stupid errors, but lost the Super Cub this morning for near 1/2 hour, was slightly windy and power was going down, thought I had enough juice to make it back but stopped at the precise moment of lowering for landing, made a turn around and was gone below tree line...took 30 minutes but at last recovered it and broken prop, also front was twisted, thought the motor mount came lose, but nope, things went back in place with tape and another great flight this evening, have another on order as thought it met davy jones, but keeps flying...

There is a sounding device on the combat mode module, heard of one party searching a huge site where it was lost, failed to find it, later his son kept pushing the combat button and heard the beeping and it was located...might check this out....<>...

[marchino61]

I got a phone call on Wednesday. Someone told me they found the plane in their back garden.

The colour had been completely washed out of the decals by the torrential rain we have been having. The story was that the family had seen the plane appear in their back garden just a day before. It had been thrown over the fence by the neighbours, who thought it belonged to their children. The neighbours had been on holiday, hence the delay.

Only the battery was missing - removed or fell out? Well, if it fell out, without damaging the battery box, it was the first time ever. I went to the neighbour's house too, but the battery was nowhere to be found.

Got it home, put a new battery in and - wonder of wonders - everything worked! Only the (new) horizontal stab was broken off at the end.

I will give the bearings some oil, but I am not aking it out any more until I have mastered the Slow Stick. Glad to get it back though as the electronics were all new, standard 36 MHZ stuff.

[marchino61]

I thought I would add an update to this thread in case any beginners started to read it and got discouraged by my lack of success.

I laid off flying for several months for various reasons, including having a carpal tunnel release operation on my hand.

I came back with the Slow Stick one fairly calm day. I should have used the sim but could not find the time. I was therefore amazed to find I flew the SS pretty well and did not crash. Maybe I was thinking about it too much before and getting nervous. With the layoff I seem to have internalised the movements needed to fly.

I then ordered a Spektrum DX6i and some AR6100 receivers. This was a revelation - control was so much better. Previously I was getting glitching when the plane was more than a few hundred metres away. The exp also made me feel more in control.

To cut a long story short - after a couple of successful days with the SS, I decided to get the Super Cub out of store and have another go. Again, I flew it successfully straight away. I repeated this for about four more days, especially practising getting smooth landings. I did get it caught in a tree once, but no serious damage was done.

Just over a week ago, I bought a PnP Parkzone T-28 Trojan. On my maiden flight I crashed and broke off the nose. A new motor mount and some epoxy later and I was flying the next day. This time I got an experienced pilot to get it in the air and land it. I found it quite easy to fly, but with a tendency to nose up under power.

This weekend, I moved the battery forrward and again had some help taking off. Now it flies like a dream. I landed it myself then made three more solo flights. It is so stable and slow flying yet highly manoeuverable when you need it. Plenty of power too.

I am already finding it easier to fly the Trojan than the Super Cub due to its superior ability to get out of trouble with its tighter turns and greater power. I have done some rolls and loops and now I am trying to master inverted flight.

Why did I have trouble before? I think the main reason was trim - I was crashing every time I took the plane out so it constantly needed retrimming. At that time I was flying alone so I had to do it myself. It's so much easier now I have joined a club (W.A.R.S in Yokine, for anyone local to Perth). Another contributing factor was glitching and the third was my tendency to panic (which was augmented by my trim problems - I was constantly fighting the controls).

I love my T-28 and I am looking forward to flying it through the autumn, which is the calmest season here in Perth.

It has taken me over a year to stop crashing and start flying, but I made it in the end!

[phillipmorris]

Very nice update, also heard the Trojan makes an excellent 2nd plane, yet to try that one, back on the Super Cub, mine had some issues with errors in flying, even downsink conditions and boiling air during some AM flights gave me fits every so often, later you realize when its a good time to pack things in for later trys...mine always stayed near trim right out of the box, ran full throttle only during take off then just above half throttle to hold altitude, its a very forgiving flyer when correctly set up, always amazed how much abuse it survived for me, but hey, you eventually made it, thats the big thing and your flying now, great story on your experiences, mine continues, hi hi. VERY BEST ..<>..

Super Cub, Night Flights
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