Side In Hover Help!

[Keven]

I can hover tail in & nose in ok. But turn the heli side in and I loose it. I've tried hovering tail in and then slowly turning the heli but that does not seem to help. Any tips or suggestions that might help me?
Thanks,
Keven

[Turbojoe]

It was suggested to me to try hovering at varying degrees of side in. As in 15, 30, 45 degree etc. I tried it last weekend on my only T-Rex flight and I'll be darned if it didn't help. I'll keep at this method unless I find something better. I'm really looking forward to making some turns as I'm starting to get bored with hover and forward and backward straight line flight. I tried to fly a circuit with the Blade CP Sunday and ended up mercilessly slamming it into the ground. Very little damage but I won't risk my precious T-Rex until I'm much more proficient. I'm thinking of selling the Blade and buying a sim that I should have gotten instead.

Joe

[watt_the?!]

good advice joe.

the only way to fly a heli is to imagine yourself in the cockpit.

for some of the more advanced movements, like reverse flying turns etc there will be times where you learn and employ actual stick movements rather than the imaginary pilot.

for aerobatics, many movements are learnt as a routine, by going through the moves in your head, in the cockpit, and then learning the corresponding stick movements. when in trouble though, all go back to the ''in the pit'' technique to get it back.

Tim.

[tashley]

I think the varying degree thing is the best. Just start out in a tail in hover and cock it to one side or the other a couple degrees and slowly add more turn out as you feel comfortable with it.

[tashley]

Another tip is one the old timers used, whichever direction the model is facing turn your body and transmitter to that same direction. It's a great confidence builder.

[Ultraviolet]

I'm surprised your having a problem with side hovering.
Are you SURE you've mastered nose in hovering. Once you've
mastered nose in, your ready for forward flight.

[Turbojoe]

I'm surprised your having a problem with side hovering.
Are you SURE you've mastered nose in hovering. Once you've
mastered nose in, your ready for forward flight.

I haven't flown a lot of nose in but I have less problem with it than 90 degree side in. I think some of us just have more problems with orientation than others. I know that if I could be about 10 feet above the heli I could probably fly circuits just fine. It's something about having the bird at or above eye level that throws things off for me. Maybe it's time for me to get new glasses again.;)


Joe

[Ultraviolet]

Good point !! I think it's a matter of depth perception. Sometimes it's
hard to tell if the heli is moving toward you or away from you when your
looking at the side.

[Turbojoe]

That's the EXACT problem I have. I get all discombooberlated and slam into the ground! I've got to get past that somehow.


Joe

[Keven]

I wouldn't say I have mastered it. I can take off and land nose in but side in gives me fits. I have figured out a little trick that has helped though. Aileron towards the tail moves the heli out away from me and aileron towards the nose moves the heli in towards me. Keeping this in my mind has helped more than anything. Now if my 4 in 1 unit was working I could be practicing!:mad:

[watt_the?!]

I wouldn't say I have mastered it. I can take off and land nose in but side in gives me fits. I have figured out a little trick that has helped though. Aileron towards the tail moves the heli out away from me and aileron towards the nose moves the heli in towards me. Keeping this in my mind has helped more than anything. Now if my 4 in 1 unit was working I could be practicing!:mad:

personally i think that learning ''this does that when it's like this...." is great for learning a specific move, but terrible if you somehow get into that position and want to suddenly get out of it...

[tashley]

personally i think that learning ''this does that when it's like this...." is great for learning a specific move, but terrible if you somehow get into that position and want to suddenly get out of it...
I agree Tim, learning to fly by the seat of the pants is the only way to be assured that you can get out ot trouble when you get into it without having to think it through. Which there is never enough time to do.

[funnysticks]

I am just learning to fly heli's and Tim suggested a flight sim and Iam using RFG3 and I have learned sooo much. Although I have been flying fixed wing for several years, I found helicopters a lot different. The orientation thing was a challenge. My LHS told me to fly the nose of the heli,and that helped a lot to keep from trying to move the tail rotor instead. I have learned a lot from reading the comments here. Thanks Guys and keep it coming. Danhttp://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Turbojoe]

I just picked up Reflex XTR dirt cheap on eBay. I'm hoping it'll be here by middle of the week so I can get some practice in before the weekend. I remember having the same real life type orientation problems with helis on RF G2 before I sold it. I didn't have a heli at the time and was bored to death with the planes. I should have just stuck it on the shelf for a few more months.


Joe

[watt_the?!]

its amazing how badly everyone sucks at flying a heli when they start- then one day it just all clicks...

the best tip in flying helis i can give would be to always make the rudder follow the direction of travel....i.e. point the nose to where you want to go, and then the rest is like flying an airplane.

Tim.

(at least that is whilst learning in 2d).

[HoverBovver]

Make sure you get the usb widget with the dirt cheap reflex xtr and not just the cd which is free anyway :eek:

I had this problem in the early days.....I'd practiced really hard and cracked nose-in. I was really comfortable with it and assumed side-in would be automatic but ultimately I had to specifically practice those orientations too. Only when I had all orientations was I happy to start learning circuits.

All just needs time and practice.....reflex xtr helped a lot with side-in and circuits but I learned nose-in the hard way long before I got the sim.

[Turbojoe]

Make sure you get the usb widget with the dirt cheap reflex xtr and not just the cd which is free anyway :eek:


Yeah, it's the complete package NIB. Comes with the round Futaba adapter but I need the square. No biggie. I ordered that for $13.00. Only paid $129.00 for the sim. He sells a lot of them.


Joe

[watt_the?!]

Make sure you get the usb widget with the dirt cheap reflex xtr and not just the cd which is free anyway :eek:

I had this problem in the early days.....I'd practiced really hard and cracked nose-in. I was really comfortable with it and assumed side-in would be automatic but ultimately I had to specifically practice those orientations too. Only when I had all orientations was I happy to start learning circuits.

All just needs time and practice.....reflex xtr helped a lot with side-in and circuits but I learned nose-in the hard way long before I got the sim.

good advice....sims are still very much under rated. and shouldnt be.

[Turbojoe]

The proof is in the putting. Reflex XTR is the bomb! I finally got to test out what I've been doing on Reflex with my T-Rex today. Side in hover was not much of a problem at any altitude whether it be at 6 inches or 60 feet. I was enjoying it so much I didn't try any nose in. My cahones haven't grown large enough yet for me to try any circuits on the real heli though I know I could do it now. Using Reflex I now know where my circuit flight problem was and have gotten past it. I've been doing fast forward, flips, rolls and inverted on the sim. I still crash sometimes but I'm learning what I did to cause the crash.

With the realistic background appearance it does in fact seem true to life when flying. I don't know about RF G3 but Reflex is so much better than G2 that I had.

I don't know if I just got lucky and my T-Rex came out exceptional in the way it's setup or not but it's actually much more stable than the T-Rex file I downloaded for the sim. I think I'll leave the sim file alone though. It may have actually made me fly just that much smoother today. I was having a lot of almost zero movement hovers even in side in. A thing of beauty and a HUGE confidence builder. I keep getting happier and happier with the T-Rex and Reflex.


Joe

[tashley]

Glad to see you're having fun Joe. If simulators didn't work the military and civil aviation wouldn't use em.

[Turbojoe]

I just got back from flying a couple packs in the T-Rex. When I took off I forgot to remind myself I wasn't flying the simulator but the real thing this time. I was out 30 yards and entering my first ever circuit when I realized what I had gotten myself into. While it wasn't the prettiest circuit ever flown I did a wide circle and landed back where I had started. I made certain to keep the heli at 90 degrees to me at all times so I wouldn't have an orientation problem and it went off without a hitch. I did about 8 more circuits and a bunch of side in hover.

I think I'll be progressing pretty rapidly from this point. I'm not scared of it anymore. Just very respectful of it now. I'm even seeing the need to beef up the pitch curve a little now as I can actually put it to good use. I'm still not using idle ups but from 1/2 throttle on it is full CCPM operation. I'm still at the point that I don't want to have to go hunting for switches if I crash. For now I can just pull the throttle back to stop the carnage if needed. 3D flight is a long way off as well. I'll work on idle ups at a later date. For now I'm just enjoying myself like a little kid again.


Joe

[froogle]

I wouldn't say I have mastered it. I can take off and land nose in but side in gives me fits. I have figured out a little trick that has helped though. Aileron towards the tail moves the heli out away from me and aileron towards the nose moves the heli in towards me. Keeping this in my mind has helped more than anything. Now if my 4 in 1 unit was working I could be practicing!:mad:
I like that tip - I've tried everything from angling my body to leaning and looking in certain directions as I move the sticks to try to orient my head.

I'm getting there - still very new here - but the best trick I have found by far is (and the original poster aint gonna like the answer) a simulator. Fire it up and spend hours and hours and hours in it, then go out to the field and play.

Edit: I should have read the whole thread first - good to see you're now simming.

[zappedalaskan]

good advice joe.

the only way to fly a heli is to imagine yourself in the cockpit.

for some of the more advanced movements, like reverse flying turns etc there will be times where you learn and employ actual stick movements rather than the imaginary pilot.

for aerobatics, many movements are learnt as a routine, by going through the moves in your head, in the cockpit, and then learning the corresponding stick movements. when in trouble though, all go back to the ''in the pit'' technique to get it back.

Tim.
Very well put Tim,
I have Always took the "drivers seat/cockpit approach" with any kind of model, land sea or air. It is very important to "Be" in the craft you are piloting. I learned this starting out racing Buggies. And carried it with me every since. I went to airplanes and it followed right on the money, then heli's. A bit harder, but keep with the concept. Another point of yours was everyone sucks for there first few heli flights sometimes even through the first heli's life, but one day it is like a switch was turned on in the ole noggin and like Joe said, your flying circuits with way less trouble. But always remain in the cockpit as a pilot. I have never stopped doing this. I have seen people turning around as the craft approaches them. That is a bad habit to get into, as your skill progress what happens when you go inverted for the first time? You can't very well turn your radio upside down, then turn backwards with your radio upside down, then "oh Crap!" You just dropped your radio in the dirt! Your upside down craft slips into a death-dive and your all done for the day :D
Just my two cents from what experience I have. Always be the pilot and be in the seat. When I started out there where no sims (unless you count "jet fighters" on the Atari) Take care and happy hovering everyone!
Regards,
Jay

[SlickZERO]

I just received my first Heli but have been racing RC cars since 1984 and flying since 1996. I am a flight instructor for airplanes. It is hard to explain but with myself and now my students, it seems like one day it just clicks. You forget orientation, right, left, inverted, you just see the model, know where you want it to go and without consciousness of your hands, they just move the sticks where they need to be.

My advise (for what it is worth:D )

Fly as often as you can but not for long periods at a time. There is a saturation point for the brain.

Always fly (look at) the nose of the craft. I know the rudder/tail is easier to see and directly responds (visually) faster to input. However the inputs are backwards.
Sooner or later flying the nose will become automatic. I know in extreme airplane flying if you (look at) fly the tail, you will be in the ground faster than you can say Pick Up Sticks:o