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Kosh
07-09-2007, 11:01 AM
Introducing my new F-22K version in a mid motor setup for combat. This video runs 6 minutes but it worth the watch as theres plenty of action through out.
All plane damage was repairable with a few drops of CA glue and back into action. No planes were destroyed this time but they took a beating. Higher quality video at http://www.cascadeap.com/video.html :ws:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AI9i3bVdBo

GreenAce92
07-09-2007, 03:04 PM
Great video. I like the F22k very much.

Tinman
07-09-2007, 03:20 PM
Great Video Kosh!!! :d

Kai_Shiden
07-09-2007, 04:39 PM
LOL, I see you stayed up late to mix the vid.

Edit: I didn't even notice that it was John who took both Codesource and my planes out (both impacts look like it was codesource and I getting too aggressive and basically cutting into his F22's flight path)

-Kai

Kosh
07-09-2007, 07:32 PM
I guess the streamers just give the camera something to follow as there was plenty of contact anyways. :red:

1. From what I saw the aggressor gets the worst of it on contact most times.

2. Trying to make contact is hard, Not trying to hit makes contact easy.

3. Even in the 12mph winds these planes performed well with streamers.

4. EPP foam looks like snow falling when a prop hits it. :blah:

5. This was just too much fun and I'm sure there are countless battles ahead.

DLSmith2
07-10-2007, 04:25 AM
Cool beans!!! Where did the F22-K come from? Did you modify an existing kit, or build the whole thing?

Loved the video! Only flown combat with glow planes, but this looks like too much fun to pass up.

Blue skies,

DL

Kosh
07-10-2007, 04:48 AM
The F-22K or Kosh version was built from scratch but based on the Yardbird F-22 http://2dogrc.com/ecommerce/os/catalog/yardbird-electric-park-p-2207.html

I modified the plane from http://www.rcpowers.com/F-22/F-22trans.htm
to make it work and its a superb flier even in wind yet still gentle enough that fairly new people to the hobby to still fly it. Sorry I cant add plans as I don't want to step on toes of already released kits but this is a fun plane even without the combat. :ws:

dekan
07-10-2007, 08:46 PM
I respect your reasons re- plans, but is there any chance of some dimensions and some more pictures then we can have a go building something similar. Is It bigger than 22" span Rcpowers F22 ?

Kosh
07-11-2007, 06:07 PM
I will get some more info for you about this plane.

dekan
07-11-2007, 06:12 PM
Thanks Kosh

Kosh
07-11-2007, 06:57 PM
Heres a test flight of that plane around the 4th of July. The motor and ESC are just the cheap 12T outrunners on a 2 cell with a 8x6 prop. Motor: https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4709

Better 640x480 video here: http://www.cascadeap.com/F-22K.wmv 19.3MB

I'm off to go grab a new sheet of foam will take some photos for you of a mini build. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcZM_li-6xQ

dekan
07-11-2007, 08:30 PM
Fantastic Video

RacerPaul
07-11-2007, 09:26 PM
Great stuff Kosh! A mini build would be cool!


Paul

Kosh
07-12-2007, 11:55 PM
There are only 9 parts to cut out and everything but the wing is made twice. I find it easy to cut a templet of paper first and just trace the pattern to the foam that way its a snap to make another. The fuse is 2 parts with a C/F rod running through, Simply score one side with 2 lite cuts the size of your C/F and use a small flat screwdriver to pluck the foam out between. Cutting the rest out is pretty straight forward but only cut out whats needed to fit your prop. Round the edges of the prop hole to keep the foam from cracking there.

I used flat carbon fiber along the leading edge to keep the wing from flexing up and down but bamboo would work as well but add a little more weight. I'm only running a 2 cell in mine so a 1" wide strip Strapping Tape under the wing was ok. If your going for speed I would use carbon fiber in its place.

Heres a few pics to get you thinking about it, I will add more soon. :cool:

dekan
07-13-2007, 03:37 PM
Thanks Kosh, very informative. Whats the A.U.W ?

Kosh
07-14-2007, 05:10 AM
I don't have a scale here and can only take a guess at the moment but think its around 10 ounces. Will try and get the AUW tomorrow and add Part 2 of the build.

Kai_Shiden
07-14-2007, 07:52 AM
LOL, I guess I should bring my USB scale tomorrow then eh Kosh?

-Kai

Kosh
07-14-2007, 08:13 PM
Yes, Please bring the scale. :cool:

Kosh
07-15-2007, 06:49 AM
Plane was completed yesterday and tested today without problems.

Adding your motor may require a little creative cutting but its not really hard. A stick mount is super easy to just glue on top of the wing and cut away whats needed to make it fit. Adding a firewall for other motors is not as tough as it looks. Simple line up were the prop fits and mark what needs to be cut away. Take your time and cut less than you have marked the first pass and test fit again. There's plenty of ways to make this work and your solution my be better than mine. I just hot glued the whole thing in place and called it good.

Adding the rest of the gear is a snap and I put the CG at 14 1/2 inches from the nose. The battery fits on the fuse under the wing and use it to make the plane balance. I gave the wing 1 coat of Krylon H2O paint and added a few strips for the heck of it. The plane came in at 7.3 ounces and AUW with a TP-1320 2 cell was 9.6 ounces. Hope to do part 3 soon with some measurements. ;-)

dekan
07-15-2007, 07:16 AM
Thanks Kosh great pictures

CHELLIE
07-15-2007, 07:23 AM
Great Video and build Kosh, keep up the good work :) take care, Chellie

dekan
07-26-2007, 06:47 AM
Hi Kosh any more to come?

stinkweed007
07-26-2007, 07:33 AM
Eventhoug my supply would welcome it, I still havent got up the gual to build a mid engine foamy. I just have visions of my motor coming loose and the prop going like a weed-wacker through the fuselage. Cool stuff!!

Kosh
08-08-2007, 05:30 AM
Sorry this took so long but heres the final part with some photos and measurements. C/G is about 1 inch in front of the motor so use the battery for balance. Note in the first photo the improved runners under the plane that go farther forward. They may add a little more drag but add lots of stiffness to the airframe. :ws:

dekan
08-08-2007, 06:51 AM
Thanks Kosh first rate as expected

Kosh
08-08-2007, 06:59 AM
If I can help with more needed info just let me know here. :cool:

Kai_Shiden
08-08-2007, 07:44 AM
Hey Kosh,

My brother took some pics while we were flying last saturday, here are the best of them.

-Kai

Kosh
08-08-2007, 07:50 AM
Very nice and well timed, Hard to get 3 planes in any pics so well done.

aviatordave
08-09-2007, 02:46 AM
neat pics...someone has better eyes and reflexes than I do :)

CHELLIE
08-09-2007, 03:41 AM
Hey Kosh,

My brother took some pics while we were flying last saturday, here are the best of them.

-Kai


Hi Kai_Shiden & Kosh :) Great pics :ws: I could have not done better myself ;-) in the last pic, was Mavrick and Goose flying the Jet inverted :Q

Hi Dave :silly: I did a Taxi test on the DR1 , the elevator is a little to small, the tail wont lift up, Sooooo I have to make it a little bigger, and I will try another taxi test, I was running it up and down the street, and the neighbors though i was Crazy, Well I think they are Right :silly::ws: Take care, Chellie

aviatordave
08-09-2007, 03:47 AM
sounds like progress Chellie. My neighbors know I am crazy!

Kai_Shiden
08-09-2007, 05:24 PM
Hi Kai_Shiden & Kosh :) Great pics :ws: I could have not done better myself ;-) in the last pic, was Mavrick and Goose flying the Jet inverted :QUmm, that was me showing off following John's F22 around inverted :silly: (he's doing amazingly well with his F22 for only having started into R/C a few months ago).

-Kai

P.S. We aren't nearly as close as it looks in the pic, my SU-37 is bigger than Kosh's and John's F22s, it's farther away in the pic.

Kosh
08-09-2007, 06:05 PM
This was cut out for Susan from a preprinted Depron sheet, I call it the Dazzle paint scheme. Should be good at confusing pilots, dogs and small kids. :<

Kai_Shiden
08-09-2007, 06:15 PM
OUCH, I'm going to have to get darker sunglasses for when Susan is flying with us ;-).

-Kai

Kosh
08-09-2007, 06:24 PM
Perhaps welding goggles will do the trick for this, I'm afraid even the mighty Siroc thats never meet a plane he didn't want to eat would run. :cool:

dotyj
08-09-2007, 06:24 PM
What thickness is the foam? What a cool project.

Fangar
08-09-2007, 06:25 PM
Perhaps welding goggles will do the trick for this, I'm afraid even the mighty Siroc thats never meet a plane he didn't want to eat would run. :cool:

Yikes... Should be easy to tell which is hers though when you guys are flying combat!

Cheers,

Fangar

Kosh
08-09-2007, 06:31 PM
What thickness is the foam? What a cool project.

I'm pretty sure this is 6mm Depron foam but comes printed in a wide array of colors at $18 a sheet. She's had this foam for some time just waiting for the right plane to use it on.

Kosh
08-10-2007, 11:04 PM
This should be ready for Susan to try tomorrow when she brings the rest of the parts. This thing is so bright its just plain scary looking and my camera didn't do the colors any justice here. Will try for a few shots in the air this weekend if all goes well. :cool:

Kai_Shiden
08-10-2007, 11:46 PM
Darn, I'm not sure if I want to risk my camera lens taking pics of that in the air (it should fly well though with the ground refusing to accept it :silly:).

-Kai

Kosh
08-13-2007, 06:45 AM
Well it didn't break the camera or crash but did give a few extra gashes on my fingers from a wind gust on launching. Susan had it buzzing the field and can fly it VERY well already even in the wind so it worked out ok.

xuzme720
08-13-2007, 06:52 AM
This was cut out for Susan from a preprinted Depron sheet, I call it the Dazzle paint scheme. Should be good at confusing pilots, dogs and small kids. :<
where do you find the preprinted sheets, Kosh? I want to confuse the kids!

Brandon16166
08-13-2007, 06:58 AM
does any one know how to rig a plane to have something like litle claws or holders that open up on the pres of a button that realese what ever I put in them

xuzme720
08-13-2007, 07:06 AM
Welcome to Wattflyer, Brandon. yes there are ways to do that but the legality is in question usually...what were you looking to drop?

Kosh
08-13-2007, 07:15 AM
where do you find the preprinted sheets, Kosh? I want to confuse the kids!

LOL ... This foam sheet was bought at Galaxy Hobby (Local Hobby Shop) and they picked up 10 sheets from some place. I will dig a little deeper and try and find who supplies it unless one of our members can help us out here.

does any one know how to rig a plane to have something like litle claws or holders that open up on the pres of a button that realese what ever I put in them

Welcome to Wattflyer Brandon, Claws might be a little tough but many have used small boxes on planes with just a servo to release the payload. The servo arm over the box lid holds everything in place till you release it and gravity takes over from there. (Assuming you have gravity were you live) :rolleyes:

xuzme720
08-13-2007, 07:23 AM
LOL ... This foam sheet was bought at Galaxy Hobby (Local Hobby Shop) and they picked up 10 sheets from some place. I will dig a little deeper and try and find who supplies it unless one of our members can help us out here.cool! my money is on Chellie finding it!:ws:



Welcome to Wattflyer Brandon, Claws might be a little tough but many have used small boxes on planes with just a servo to release the payload. The servo arm over the box lid holds everything in place till you release it and gravity takes over from there. (Assuming you have gravity were you live) :rolleyes:you have that gravity stuff by you, too?:<

Kai_Shiden
08-13-2007, 08:34 AM
Well, Galaxy used to get their Depron from http://www.depronusa.com/ and I remember DepronUSA having some of those pre-printed depron sheets at the 2006 NW hobby expo in Puyallup.

I bought some Depron at that show and remember the owner of DepronUSA mentioning that he had brought in some trial stock of preprinted sheets to test out the market for them (by selling them through the local shops to get a feel for the demand and if it was worthwhile for him to continue bringing them in).

You might want to send an email to DepronUSA to see if they have some stock still.

-Kai

P.S. FYI DepronUSA is actually a local Washington based business, one of the first importers of Depron to the US (based locally out of Ballard).

xuzme720
08-13-2007, 09:03 AM
cool, Thanks Kai! I'll do that. if we can't find it, I may have to go the printed decal route, or just paint the planes!

Fangar
08-13-2007, 04:36 PM
Depron USA has gone out of business.

RCFoam.com is another place that I have ordered from. His service is also great and prices are good too. I am not sure that he sells the pre-printed sheets, but if you call, I am sure he can get them.

Kai_Shiden
08-13-2007, 06:57 PM
Depron USA has gone out of business.Wow, just last night when I checked the website still had a cart and everything, now today it has a HUGE closed banner.

-Kai

Kosh
08-13-2007, 11:33 PM
This looks like a good business opening for someone, Buy the well known domain name and restart it? This time sell some kits on the site along with the sheets and make it a full time gig. Depron USA was a well known name and trusted name on the market and it can be again with a little work. :<

I have a few of my own designs I would gladly give out to a worthy endeavor like this as I'm sure others would also to have a reasonable priced supplier and kit maker. Give it some thought !!! :cool:

xuzme720
08-14-2007, 01:43 AM
Wow, just last night when I checked the website still had a cart and everything, now today it has a HUGE closed banner.

-Kaisame here! talk about timing!:{

dekan
09-08-2007, 04:22 PM
I finally finished my Epp F22 from Kosh's dimensions. Fly ok but the glide is very poor, rock and rolls, tip stalling? almost uncontrollable. Firetrappe did the plan for me

Kosh
09-08-2007, 04:56 PM
WOW ... That looks sharp !!!
Nice job on the build, The only think I can think of is move your CG around. Mine only had a EPP nose and the back was Depron so it was a little lighter. Try moving the battery forward a bit and see if that helps. Great job on the build and let us know if it works better. :ws:

dekan
09-08-2007, 05:15 PM
Thanks Kosh, my plane currently balances about an 1" in front of the motor mount Where does your's balance?

Kosh
09-08-2007, 05:36 PM
I wont know until I build another one as mine was destroyed at the park. It impacted with such force that the whole back end of the plane slammed into the prop sending a massive shower of foam everywhere. :blah:

I will take a look at Susan's today and see about a few photos for you. Most flat foamies are not much in the glide department but it should still be controllable. If the plane handles ok with power on just minor shifting of the battery should be all you need.

stinkweed007
09-08-2007, 06:17 PM
I finally finished my Epp F22 from Kosh's dimensions. Fly ok but the glide is very poor, rock and rolls, tip stalling? almost uncontrollable. Firetrappe did the plan for me

just an observation... but is your motor pointing a bit left in the belly photo?

dekan
09-08-2007, 06:29 PM
Good spot Stink, its pointing about 1 degree Right to kill the dreaded propjet torque roll to the Left on launch.

stinkweed007
09-08-2007, 06:33 PM
just ensuring our airmen do well in combat!!!

the tilt makes sense.. I have to do that on my WingDragon because she's got high torque...

dekan
09-09-2007, 10:15 AM
Thanks Kosh, moved the Cog foward.It now flys great! Cog Is 16" from the nose. I am getting about 10min mixed throttle from the Hyperion 800ma 2s battery.
Loops are about 4ft diameter and rolls very fast.
Its very easy to fly. My first parkjet.

Plane is made of 10mm Epp, double thickness on the fus
Thanks again for shareing the info
Plan by Firetrappe. Thanks Si
I will post a tiled version if there is any interest

Kosh
09-09-2007, 07:12 PM
Nice work, I was hoping it was something simple like that.

You will find that wind doesn't effect it as much for a plane of its size and and because yours is all EPP it will hold up well.

Congrats on a fine build and add the tiled plans when you can please.

dekan
09-10-2007, 05:40 PM
Hi Kosh, tiled plan as requested Do you have any info on the other park jet shown in the combat video.
I have also posted this info on the RCG forum (scratch built foamies) and have given you credit for the original design.I hope this is ok

Kai_Shiden
09-10-2007, 06:18 PM
Do you have any info on the other park jet shown in the combat video.Hi dekan,

The other park jet in the combat video is my custom SU-37 design, I have an enormous build/design thread over at RCG on it: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360514 (however, I never posted past Rev3 plans online because I got lazy :roll:)

It's the only profile parkjet I know of that can pull off sustained hovers, elevator tumbles, sustained knife edge circuits, upright and inverted flat spins, and most other 3D plane maneuvers (some of those we've been able to pull off with Kosh's moondancer design as well though :ws:). Sadly I retired it this weekend after over a year of service (it was Rev5, I'm trying to get Rev6 done for indoor this thursday). It's more 3D plane than parkjet with it's thrust vector paddle design, large rudders that extend into the propwash, and huge control throws (the near 2:1 thrust to weight helps as well, LOL).

Control surface demo:
QqccC3humiE

Park flight:
hmrDsEF5RyU

-Kai

Kosh
09-10-2007, 06:28 PM
No problems here and thanks but you did all the work to make it from my crude measurements. The video had a pair of F-22's, one modified Su-37 and I'm just not what the flat foamie plane was that contacted last.
The modded Su-37 plans by Kai Shiden can be found on RCG with a little searching.

Update: Thanks Kai, You posted as I was typing

dekan
09-10-2007, 06:35 PM
Thanks Kosh and Kia, Firetrappe did the plan for me.

Thanks again great plane. I hope others get as big a kick out of building and flying it as I do

Kai_Shiden
09-10-2007, 06:40 PM
No problems here and thanks but you did all the work to make it from my crude measurements. The video had a pair of F-22's, one modified Su-37 and I'm just not what the flat foamie plane was that contacted last.
The modded Su-37 plans by Kai Shiden can be found on RCG with a little searching.

Update: Thanks Kai, You posted as I was typingHehe, no problem Kosh.

The last plane contacted was a GreatPlanes Flatout Extra 300s: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJTK3&P=0 (codesource's)

Funny thing about that combat vid, I think that was the only time my SU was actually taken out in a midair contact. I've flown it missing the nose, with a broken wing, without a vertical stab, missing half an elevon, with only one active rudder, and with the tail frame dangling by less than an inch of foam. Redundant control surfaces are a nice thing :Q.

But, my SU-37 design probably takes 3x as long to build as Kosh's F-22. It has a boxed and tabbed construction (very rigid and strong, but quite a bit more involved to build), and I prefer to use barndoor hinging (which takes like 5x as long as a conventional bevel tape hinge).

-Kai

dekan
09-10-2007, 07:44 PM
How many of the F22's have you and your crew built Kosh? I have seen at least 3 in the videos. "Leadfeather" has expressed an interest in adding it to the Epp sticky thread on RCG once sorted, I figure its pretty sorted now!
I have asked him to credit you on the design.

Kosh
09-10-2007, 08:06 PM
I think 6 or 7 have been built so far with a few more on the way. The video from post #11 I think shows its abilities off well and your welcome to use any photos or video as you see fit. The next version will have ailerons but still be a 2 servo setup. I'm doing this just for increased roll rate mainly but it flies well as is. The photo below should give you a idea how it will end up.

dekan
09-10-2007, 08:35 PM
I will let Leadfeather know.
Like the Mig.... its a pity I live in Uk, otherwise I would come and camp on your front lawn. LOL

Kosh
09-10-2007, 08:43 PM
Your welcome on our flight line anytime. :cool:

dekan
09-10-2007, 10:07 PM
Thanks

dekan
09-11-2007, 06:43 AM
Kosh. the plane is now in the Epp sticky thread at RCG

Blaze.45
09-11-2007, 11:22 PM
Hah, it woulda been a different story if I was present. :p hehe jk.

I'm gonna try and join you guys this coming weekend. It's my only chance to fly for the past 2 months, and coming 1 month because of international travel. :(

-Chris

Kosh
09-11-2007, 11:38 PM
Kosh. the plane is now in the Epp sticky thread at RCG

Very cool, Nice work my friend. :ws:

Hah, it woulda been a different story if I was present. :p hehe jk.

I'm gonna try and join you guys this coming weekend. It's my only chance to fly for the past 2 months, and coming 1 month because of international travel. :(

-Chris

Well Chris, The hoop of death awaits you. It may look easy but took out 3 planes its first day. :Q

The weather looks good so hope to see you there this weekend, My FJ is ready to go this time. :ws:

Kai_Shiden
09-12-2007, 06:20 PM
Hehe, I think Kosh's MoonDancer had the most impressive resultant pic from the hoop o' death:silly:

-Kai

Kosh
09-12-2007, 06:36 PM
Just seeing where the controls are you know the resulting crash wont be pretty but great action shot. I did manage to get my Stryker through it undamaged though. :rolleyes:

Fangar
09-16-2007, 01:07 AM
This is a very easy plane to build thanks to Kosh, Dekan and to firetrappe (RC Groups) for the nice tiled plan. Mine is made of Depron. Basswood was used for the leading wing edges and body stringer. I like basswood as it is cheap and just as light as carbon fiber. A bit more rigid too, though not as strong.

AUW: 7.4 ounces with a 2 Cell Thunderpower 730 mAh. It cruises right along with the little motor and battery combo. Not a rocket, but a fun little flyer. A bigger motor and battery would likely make this thing zing.

Krylon H20 spray was used to paint the parts prior to assembly. Man that stuff is no fun to work with. Comes out of the can like spackle, does not flow and takes forever to dry. The finished result is nice though since there is not too much else that works on foam.

Thanks again for making the plans for this one available.

Cheers,

Fangar

Kosh
09-16-2007, 05:01 AM
Mr. Fangar

Super nice job on the build, It looks sharp !!!
Great job improvising with the basswood but as lite as yours is it may not be needed however it will put up with some major abuse now and a 3 cell.
You see why this is just a fun park flier now and doesn't even mind some wind. Heres a mod you may want to add to your next version just for fun.

Here "Version 3" with ailerons on the same 2 servos, Roll rate and slow speed handling are greatly improved and this came out at 8.5 ounces with a TP-1320 2 cell. :cool:

Fangar
09-16-2007, 06:08 AM
Mr. Fangar

Super nice job on the build, It looks sharp !!!
Great job improvising with the basswood but as lite as yours is it may not be needed however it will put up with some major abuse now and a 3 cell.
You see why this is just a fun park flier now and doesn't even mind some wind. Heres a mod you may want to add to your next version just for fun.

Here "Version 3" with ailerons on the same 2 servos, Roll rate and slow speed handling are greatly improved and this came out at 8.5 ounces with a TP-1320 2 cell. :cool:

Kosh,

Another superb looking build. I like the idea of the ailerons too. I could add them to this one with a little modification. As it is, this thing is super fun to float around. I am amazed at how slow it can chug along if you want it to.

Did you notice any difference with the motor mounted above the mid-line of the wing as on this build? Lastly, if you saw my comments on the Krylon H20, am I about right, or did I get three bad cans? It is manageable, but much more work to get a nice coat as opposed to Standard rattle cans.

Thanks for sharing the new build. Great work!

Fangar

dekan
09-16-2007, 07:40 AM
First rate job Fanger What motor? I look forward to some more being built. Super job as usual Kosh. What motor and prop combination are you now using? Fanger do you mind if I use some of your pics on my RCG thread I will credit them to you naturally.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=740049

Fangar
09-16-2007, 05:18 PM
First rate job Fanger What motor? I look forward to some more being built. Super job as usual Kosh. What motor and prop combination are you now using? Fanger do you mind if I use some of your pics on my RCG thread I will credit them to you naturally.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=740049

Dekan,

No problem at all using the photos.

I am using a motor that I got from UnitedHobbies. It is a C2226 - 1450kv micro brushless and cost 15 bucks.

Specifications.
Diameter: 22.2mm
Length: 28mm
Shaft: 5mm
Weight: 21g (with 10cm wire)
Power: 70W
Kv: 1450rpm/v
Turns: 25
Resistance: 657
Idle Current: .5A
Max amp: 10A (15sec burst)
Voltage: 2-4cell Lipoly

Cheers,

Fangar

Fangar
09-16-2007, 05:29 PM
First rate job Fanger What motor? I look forward to some more being built. Super job as usual Kosh. What motor and prop combination are you now using? Fanger do you mind if I use some of your pics on my RCG thread I will credit them to you naturally.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=740049

I went ahead and posted mine up over there for you.

Fangar

dekan
09-16-2007, 05:44 PM
Good man! Thanks James. When we have something good we share it.
I don't know the motor, it maybe called something else in the UK.

Kosh
09-16-2007, 06:15 PM
Kosh,

Did you notice any difference with the motor mounted above the mid-line of the wing as on this build? Lastly, if you saw my comments on the Krylon H20, am I about right, or did I get three bad cans? It is manageable, but much more work to get a nice coat as opposed to Standard rattle cans.

Fangar

I found no difference with the motor mounted above the wing. (I was just being lazy and didn't want to cut the area out for a proper fit)

The Latex H2O paint doesn't spray the fine mist were use to, It tends to come out in big droplets so you really cant do lite misting coats. I use only one heavy coat and bring it inside to dry. Besides being foam safe the paint is very flexible and doesn't flake off easy. Try it on a few more projects with a heavy first coat.



First rate job Fanger What motor? I look forward to some more being built. Super job as usual Kosh. What motor and prop combination are you now using?

I wanted to make a lighter plane so used a Little Screamer Purple Peril with a APC 7x5 prop because this will run mostly off a 2 cell battery.

dekan
09-16-2007, 06:48 PM
Kosh,I have posted the mk3 pics on the RCG thread. Any chance of some info on the servo coupling arrangement

Kosh
09-16-2007, 07:19 PM
Nice work on the RCG thread. :cool:

I just reused what I had on hand here. For the most part its just a C/F control rod with wire Z bends and heat shrinks holding them in place. These are non adjustable so everything must be centered before shrinking.
There are lots of ways to make this work and one Dubro connector on the top control horn gives some flexibility for getting stuff lined up with a Z bend in the next free hole below it. Heres a few pics to give you a better idea.

dekan
09-16-2007, 07:34 PM
Thanks Kosh I had to know, I don't like to appear ignerant if people assk. Doh.....

dekan
09-17-2007, 07:28 PM
PlanV2 shows carbon placement and a Fin angle template. Note the prop size/ skid position comment on this plan.

Kosh
09-18-2007, 01:17 AM
V2 plans look great, Well done. :ws:

Fangar
09-22-2007, 07:58 AM
This is a compilation Video of my Depron Raptor. One of my favorite flyers to date. Pretty fun to zing it through the neighborhood while they are away at work...

I think you guys will enjoy my enormous landing zone...:<:

OGcwdWWaj4U


Cheers,

Fangar

Kosh
09-22-2007, 08:19 AM
Well it just doesn't get any better than that, Theres just not many small light planes that do well in wind like this thing does and still get pin point landings.

Excellent job on the video and plane, Tell your wife thanks from all of us. :cool:

Fangar
09-22-2007, 08:51 AM
Well it just doesn't get any better than that, Theres just not many small light planes that do well in wind like this thing does and still get pin point landings.

Excellent job on the video and plane, Tell your wife thanks from all of us. :cool:

Your are correct about the wind and this little plane. It is a blast to thread through the neighborhood. Thanks for the kind words.

I will tell Melissa thanks. She has been getting better with the camera! :ws:

Cheers,

Fangar

dekan
09-22-2007, 08:57 AM
Fantastic video James, as Kosh sez big thanks to your wife. I am amazed that the Cops didn't take an "interest" If we tried flying in the steets over here in the Uk all hell would break loose!

Please can you paste the youtube URL of the video in to the RCG thread.

Hey I am so pig sick, what a great job you have made of your. I just love the colour scheme so much that I'm going to "steal it" for my mk2 that I am building.

Flew the the mk1 one today flat calm,the winds been bending trees over all week great low speed passes, my FB was amazed how easy it is to fly.

Fangar
09-22-2007, 10:53 PM
I just made some little plastic skids for the bottom contact points so that this little plane can land nicely on asphalt. The plastic is low friction, so it slides nice on the ground. Saves me from having to line up with my small lawn!

Fangar

Kosh
09-26-2007, 06:38 PM
Heres the revision III video with ailerons, Just playing around in the sky.

Better Quality Video: http://www.cascadeap.com/F22C.wmv 12MB

n9UYaMsQ3WI

Fangar
09-26-2007, 06:56 PM
I decided I would see if my Raptor would pull my little EDVR camera. It flew pretty well with the 1 ounce extra weight. Just for fun...

3ZdO_U_Tw8M

Cheers,

Fangar

dekan
09-26-2007, 07:00 PM
A Photo recon F22. I like the vertical climb out. What prop are you using

Fangar
09-26-2007, 07:44 PM
A Photo recon F22. I like the vertical climb out. What prop are you using

GWS 8x6. Very flexible and light weight. The GWS props are much lighter than the APC props, even in the Electric. I am going to pick up a 6 and 7" also just for giggles. I will put it on the WattMeter and see what rates I am pulling too.

This plane is perfect for neighborhood flying. Just enough power to climb out of issues, but not so much that it is a rocket.

Fangar

dekan
09-27-2007, 10:22 PM
Thanks James the prop looked a bit more rounded than the Gws.....Thanks for posting on RCG, Do you think we are making any impression. I find the endless discussion re the emax cf2805 2s or 3s a little depressing. However your contribution is allways welcome.

Fangar
09-27-2007, 10:55 PM
Thanks James the prop looked a bit more rounded than the Gws.....Thanks for posting on RCG, Do you think we are making any impression. I find the endless discussion re the emax cf2805 2s or 3s a little depressing. However your contribution is allways welcome.

I am not familiar with that motor, but know that mine runs way too hot on a 3s. They are not made to take that much juice IMHO.

I picked up some different props today. The 8x6 works the best for this motor. The 7x7 has a bit faster speed to it, but the plane has better thrust with the extra inch. A 6" was absurd. It flew, but not well at all. I am getting a whopping 6-7 amps WOT. This plane is too much fun. I just ordered a little hotter motor for another project, maybe the aileron version that Kosh posted up.

Fangar

dekan
09-28-2007, 09:28 PM
8 x 6 3s is probably close to the safe limit on your motor.

I Have another parkjet project lined up, which will be a companion for the F22. But I am building a F22 for a 1500Kv Blue Wonder at the moment, slight redesign of the fus, soon as I get it working ok I will post a revised plan. I have an enlarged V2 plan posted now at RCG, 32" span.
The plan is a scale up so you will have to resize the prop slot, skid position etc.

Fangar
09-29-2007, 12:40 AM
Off from work today and 20 mph gusts outside...:(

I asked my Son if he wanted me to build him a new glider. He said he did and that he wanted one just like me new Raptor. We built it together. Here is a serious of flights taken from my SD450.

nId8Rh_IwwE

It flies great. We can't wait to take it out and drop it from the belly of my Magpie AP plane.

Cheers,

Fangar

Fangar
10-10-2007, 06:22 PM
Hello all,

In some testing, I think I have located the motor setup to end all setups for this plane. It brings the AUW up a couple ounces, but it smokes and handles it just fine.

Here is the motor:

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2108

and the ESC:

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=659

First off. Pay no attention to the specs listed on the website for that motor. They are not even close. The spec sheet that came with the motor states that 6-12v is the best operating voltage. The motor is also purple where it shows to be blue in the photo.

Here are the important numbers:

22" Span Raptor - Depron, Basswood, etc. You have seen mine.

AUW: 9.8 ounces.
Motor: HXT 28-22-A 1600Kv (36 grams) COST $9.99
Prop: APC 8x4e
ESC: TowerPro 9g 12A Brushless COST $9.99
Lipo: Thunder Power 3S 910mAh. (65 grams)



MORE NUMBERS:
WOT 8.4 Amps 76 Watts
1/2+ Throttle 3 Amps.

Results:

This thing is a ballistic missile now. However, it flies slow just as well. Left wing dip / rock on launch is big, but my test flights were in bold 10-15 mph gusts. The amount of power pulls the nose right out of it. I think that with less power on initial launch, that will be the key. More on this once the wind dies.

This thing at full throttle is a rocket. However, it will fly comfortably from just about 1/2+ to 3/4 throttle. On the 2S with my other motor, it was pretty much WOT or you were losing altitude. This thing will hover and then full stick will make it climb from a stand still.

The extra weight of the battery seems to make this thing glide better. How do I know? :o Let's just say BE SURE TO REINFORCE YOUR MOTOR MOUNT WITH THIS MOTOR! :D I was up about 100 feet and the mount broke free. Cut my fuse just a bit, but still had full control, without power. I was able to glide the plane all the way back to me from way over the house without issue. Epoxy and reinforced the mount and it is back flying.

Lastly, I have a 5 minute timer on my Futaba for this plane. It was set up when I was running the other motor and 2s 730 mAh. At the timer end, I landed to check the motor and battery levels. At 3/4 to WOT for 5 minutes in solid winds, there was still 60% battery level remaining. The motor was not even warm to the touch. The ESC was not warm either.

More on this...

Fangar

Fangar
10-28-2007, 06:39 PM
This is a new video showing the power and pull of the aforementioned motor setup.

Q9tpZnhN3dA

Cheers,

Fangar

dekan
10-28-2007, 06:51 PM
Wow!

Kosh
10-29-2007, 04:29 AM
More WOW :p

Thats sure a nice setup for the amp draw, Its just adds so much more to a plane when its got some extra power. Looks like your F22 has been holding up well. :cool:

Fangar
10-29-2007, 07:05 AM
More WOW :p

Thats sure a nice setup for the amp draw, Its just adds so much more to a plane when its got some extra power. Looks like your F22 has been holding up well. :cool:

You're right about the power.

It has been holding up well. It has been getting tons of use. I bought two more of those motors as spares as well. Can't beat them for 10 bucks.

Fangar

Fangar
12-28-2007, 05:12 PM
I was initially going to add Ailerons to this one, but decided I like the other too much to mess with it. My nest build will likely have those. I got some new black Depron, and had to experiment. The yellow is the Krylon H20.

My original red one was retired. Still flying when I put her down, but I managed to break the nose off while flying in heavy winds. I could have glued it up no problem, but decided version II was in order. I got tons of flights out of the first!

PS. The battery is in its Temp position with double sided tape. I will try to maiden her today and then attach the velcro one I find the sweet spot for the CG.

Thanks for looking.

Fangar

dekan
12-28-2007, 05:28 PM
Looks good James.Have yourself a good 2008

Fangar
12-28-2007, 06:53 PM
Looks good James.Have yourself a good 2008

Thanks Dekan,

You do the same for 2008!

I froze my fingers off, but I just got back from maidening it. Flew well. Had a bit of left pull to it. Moved the CG back by moving the battery back about 3/4" or so. Lateral balance is spot on. I shimmed the motor mount a thousandth or so to try to work it out. I was able to pull it all out with a little right trim, but I like me surfaces to be equal... I will test fly it again soon.

Cheers,

Fangar

Kosh
12-29-2007, 04:48 PM
Love the high contrast yellow and black, Very nice.

Fangar
12-29-2007, 05:24 PM
Love the high contrast yellow and black, Very nice.

Thanks Kosh. I have always liked that yellow since I saw yours. I have gotten better with the Krylon H20 too with your advice. One moderate coat, instead of several thin coats as you would with standard rattle cans.

Fangar

Fangar
01-04-2008, 07:38 PM
A Quick video of the New Color Scheme.

A little slow flight.

http://www.vimeo.com/470148

Fangar

RacerPaul
01-04-2008, 08:20 PM
Very Cool Fangar!

Paul

Kosh
01-04-2008, 08:38 PM
Another great video, Thanks

pvtzemerak
01-09-2008, 11:37 PM
nice vid

RocketMan
04-19-2008, 10:28 PM
I feel like I should post to this thread because I started my depron F-22 back in January as a result of the messages here. However I never had a chance to finish it until this week...

Here are some pics:

http://picasaweb.google.ca/RocketManRC/F22?authkey=7ulTa2fLGb0

I was hoping to get it under 9 oz and just squeaked in at 8.9 (250g) with battery. I'm using the little 2S-900 batteries that I use with my HyperFlea.

The motor and ESC are a GWS combo from HobbyCity:

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4166

I'm using a GWS 8 x 4 prop so it should pull about 75 watts which is the upper limit for this motor. This was one of the recommended power setups on the build thread on RCG.

I wanted to go with the power setup that Fangar recommended but it has been out of stock at Hobbycity for months (although on a check today they are in stock again wouldn't you know).

One of the things I did a little differently was after gluing the carbon spar in a recess in the wing I glued a sheet of 3 mm depron on top using 3M Super 77 so it is laminated and the spar is hidden. This made the wing quite a bit stiffer.

All I've been able to do so far because of the high winds is a static test but it feels like it will definitely go vertical. I think it should have a pretty wide speed range and run quiet but we shall see. Hopefully tomorrow!

Rick

Kosh
04-19-2008, 11:34 PM
Your plane looks great and hope it flies as well. I have more fun with this than most of my others combined and sure you will also. Good luck and keep us informed, Kosh

Sharpedge47
05-15-2008, 03:38 AM
Hi, I'm really interested in making this plane but i have very little experience, by little i mean putting the wing on a pre-built trainer. I some what understand what i would need from reading alot of information on park flyers and such. If someone could give me a complete list of things I would need or point me in the right direction I would really appreciate it.

Kosh
05-22-2008, 12:24 AM
Welcome to Wattflyer.

Sorry for not getting back sooner but been kinda busy here.

Start off by getting some foam locally I hope from craft stores. Print out the plans and your ready to start cutting. Your going to need a transmitter that can mix V-Tail or buy a V-Tail mixing unit for the plane.

Most of the gear you need to buy is dictated by what you already have on hand. This plane likes smaller size lipo batteries in the 500 to 1000 range so needs a low amp draw motor.

Ask away and we will work with you on this project.

Kosh

RocketMan
05-22-2008, 01:30 AM
Oh my, I had the opportunity to get some video a few days after my last message and then totally forgot to post a link to it. Here it is:

http://www.vimeo.com/922002
I was trying to harrier it into the wind to make it easy to video and also to show off a little :-)

It's a lot of fun to build and to fly.

Rick

Kosh
05-22-2008, 01:41 AM
Nice video, I love how these planes so down so nice. They don't even know the wind is blowing or care.

RocketMan
05-22-2008, 01:55 AM
It is pretty amazing what you can do with a few bits of wire and some pieces of foam!

I built mine from the original sketches and made very little changes. I think that the GWS power system that I used is not the best but it was what I had at the time.

Fangar
06-07-2008, 05:30 PM
Another Color Scheme. I still haven't had the desire to go with the ailerons on this plane yet. I can always add them to this one if I want, but I love the slow lazy turns this thing can make as is.

The black is black depron. The red is white depron painted with Krylon H2o. Same power setup as before.

I forgot to mention, I strained the yellow and black one through my new fence at WOT. I was flying in major winds 20+ :D and got it stalled out in the turn downwind, full throttle could have pulled it out, but the fence was about 6" too close. No damage to the components. I also snub the nose, just a bit now to maintain a little less chance of a break.

Cheers,

Fangar

dekan
06-07-2008, 06:10 PM
Looks well up to standard... James.

Black..... not on my list of Hi Vis colours...except with white.

Fangar
06-07-2008, 09:42 PM
Looks well up to standard... James.

Black..... not on my list of Hi Vis colours...except with white.

Thanks Dekan...True about the color, but with the red, in the sky it is set off nicely. The yellow and black was the same way.

Cheers,

Fangar

annihil8ted
06-09-2008, 08:21 AM
Hallo, im new to watt flyer but have been reading this thread.

This is a awesome and simple desing so therefor i am very interested.

First of has anyone ever though of converting this to a ducted fan brushless with on of those GWS unit?

Also after seeing paint scheme, it really makes me wonder why we cant have that on the real ones.

Happy Flying,

annihil8ted

Fangar
06-09-2008, 02:54 PM
Someone tried the Ducted fan. I think it was DocAudio, but I don't recall for sure. It also might have been over at RC Groups. I think he was successful as I recall.

Fangar

Fangar
06-27-2008, 06:40 PM
Oopsy.. Little problem with my latest build versus my son and daughter's basketball hoop....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvpnqXJ5qMQ
So this week, I built another one. Went back to the yellow as the visibility is superior.

Cheers,

Fangar

Fangar
07-01-2008, 04:47 PM
Hello all,

I came up with a quick and dirty Build Video for my F-22 Raptor. I was kind of running out of time, so I breezed through it. I figured I would finish it anyway as an insight into the basic build. It can be viewed at Vimeo. It runs 24 minutes in length (I wish I could build them that fast).

http://www.vimeo.com/1262336


Cheers,

Fangar

Destroyer of airplanes
08-12-2008, 01:18 AM
A couple of pages back there was a discussion of where to buy Depron:p>. Here is another.

http://www.rcfoam.com/cart.php?target=category&category_id=75


Paul

Fangar
08-12-2008, 05:16 PM
A couple of pages back there was a discussion of where to buy Depron:p>. Here is another.

http://www.rcfoam.com/cart.php?target=category&category_id=75


Paul

RC Foam is the place that many of us get our Depron. Nice guy to deal with.

Fangar