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Lieutenant Loughead
07-23-2007, 03:00 PM
Hey there,

I've recently had some trouble with my Spektrum receivers... (See my WattFlyer post, here (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22015).)

The Spektrum guys are telling me their receivers will "reboot" when the receiver power supply dips below 3.5 volts. A receiver "reboot" takes between 10 seconds and 25 seconds, which is more than enough time to cause a crash...

I have experienced FOUR (4) Spektrum receiver reboots, on three (3) different airplanes, with threee (3) different Spektrum receivers, three (3) different 11.1 volt LiPo batteries, and three (3) different Castle Creations Electronic Speed Control systems:
1) Flat Foamie Zero -- used a Castle Creations Thunderbird 18 ESC, and a 3s 800 mAh LiPo. Drawing 6.68 amps at full throttle.

2) GWS P-51 -- used a Castle Creations Phoenix 25 ESC, and a 3s 2220 mAh LiPo. Drawing 14.68 amps at full throttle.

3) GWS P-38 -- used TWO (2) Castle Creations Phoenix 25 ESCs (neither of these were previously used on any other aircraft). This airplane also used a "SmartBEC", and bypassed the Phoenix 25's BEC. The battery was a 4s 3150 mAh LiPo. Drawing 14.8 amps at full throttle.
I am not suggesting Castle Creations products caused these crashes. Rather, I am asking:
Does Castle Creations know of any problems (existing or potential) when being used with Spektrum receivers?

Is there something I'm doing wrong (setup?), which might cause this problem from the perspective of the ESC? (Maybe the radio is fine, but I'm somehow locking up the speed control?)
Thank you for your help! :o

rcers
07-23-2007, 09:19 PM
I have over 1,000 flights on spektrum - ZERO issues.

MANY of my ESC's are CAstles and most are 3s voltage.

I have to be honest - I suspect your issue lies elsewhere however especially considering you have used a separate BEC.

Has the TX been sent in for a checkup? Might be that....

Mike

bsoder
07-23-2007, 09:27 PM
what servos are you using? I had some problems with this, and it turned out that the servos I was using - Waypoints - were the problem. They were inexpensive and inefficient, and I could actually cause a reboot with only two of them(!) I sold them off and am currently using HS-56's with no problems.

Lieutenant Loughead
07-23-2007, 10:08 PM
Has the TX been sent in for a checkup?Yes -- according to USPS tracking, they received it on Friday afternoon.

what servos are you using?Interesting statement... I use Hitec HS-55's almost exclusively, with the exception of the "Microbe II" micro servos (purchased at Hobby-Lobby.com on my flat foamie Zero. This servo is also known as an "Insky Sv60 Micro Servo". I have not had any problems with this servo in the previous 50+ flights, before I switched over to the Spektrum radio system... :(

What is the difference between an HS-55 and an HS-56?

bsoder
07-23-2007, 11:18 PM
55's are a little slower and not as strong - I'd expect LESS possibility of issues with the 55's. How many servos in the plane?

I'm using Hyperion ESCs so no experience with CC directly.

Lieutenant Loughead
07-24-2007, 02:35 PM
The flat foamie Zero used two servos. (Aileron x1, elevator x1)

The GWS P-51 used two servos. (Aileron x1, elevator x1)

The GWS P-38 used three servos. (Aileron x2, elevator x1)

bsoder
07-24-2007, 03:11 PM
Yeah, I guess I'd call CC next. I'm 99% sure the phoenix 25 and tb 18's both have 3A BEC's, so with that few servos your problem isn't the same as the one I had. :( I hope you find the answer.

Lieutenant Loughead
07-24-2007, 03:30 PM
Good to know -- thank you for your help! :)

I hope NOT to call CC -- I hope they will answer in this forum... :o

rea59
07-24-2007, 03:55 PM
So far I don't see any consistency for your problems with the varied equipment you are using. However that said I would look at the way in which you are "connecting" your systems. Seems to me that you are dropping below the 3.5v threshold on your RX due to either a.) a large power drain (intermittent short) (not likely or it would happen more frequently) or b.) a loose connection (possibly the connectors your using).

Basically what your looking at is a voltage divider network and anything that can produce a resistance will decrease the amount of voltage at the end of the line. A loose connection will allow small sparking causing carbon tracking on your connector increasing resistance. Also a poor or "cold" solder joint will give similar indications. (yes the wire will be strong and not pull apart yet still have a poor electrical connection).

This is just my $0.02 but would be a good place to start looking for a cause.

I really hope you find it cause my first CC's will be used with a Spektrum in my large plane. (although I will have a separate battery (6v) for the servos and RX.

Lieutenant Loughead
07-24-2007, 04:06 PM
Hmmmm -- well, I would HOPE it's not a cold solder joint... What are the odds I would have a cold solder joint on three different airplanes? ??

Here are the connectors I am using:
Venom 14 Gauge Micro Bullet Connectors (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?&I=LXKYD1)

W.S. Deans 2-Pin Ultra Plug (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000637386&I=LXKX39&P=K)
I have used these types of connectors on other aircraft for years, with no problems... The problem seemed to occur when I switched over to Spektrum -- the airplanes all had several flights (50+ flights on the Zero) before switching to Spektrum, so I don't think it was a connector...

I'm curious how you power the Spektrum receiver with a dedicated battery... I was thinking of using a 2s 800 mAh LiPo, but I don't know how many amps the AR6100 draws...

rea59
07-24-2007, 04:21 PM
Hmmmm -- well, I would HOPE it's not a cold solder joint... What are the odds I would have a cold solder joint on three different airplanes? ??


Here are the connectors I am using:Venom 14 Gauge Micro Bullet Connectors (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?&I=LXKYD1)


W.S. Deans 2-Pin Ultra Plug (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000637386&I=LXKX39&P=K)
I have used these types of connectors on other aircraft for years, with no problems... The problem seemed to occur when I switched over to Spektrum -- the airplanes all had several flights (50+ flights on the Zero) before switching to Spektrum, so I don't think it was a connector......

Well there is that!
Also your previous RX(s) may not have had a reboot issue and could have worked through the spike. With out the reboot time you would not notice anything.

I use the gold bullet connectors from Horizon. (no problems so far as I cross my fingers)



I'm curious how you power the Spektrum receiver with a dedicated battery... I was thinking of using a 2s 800 mAh LiPo, but I don't know how many amps the AR6100 draws...

Both my CC ESC's will be hook to a "y" and the to the Throttle port. (these do not have a BEC)
The separate battery is hooked to the RX Batt. port.

For ESC's with a BEC you would need to first disable the BEC. This can be done by clipping the power wire that goes to the Throttle port of your RX (from the ESC that is) Then the only power to your RX and servos comes from the Battery port not the Throttle port.

guest001
11-16-2007, 04:26 PM
Well there is that!
Also your previous RX(s) may not have had a reboot issue and could have worked through the spike. With out the reboot time you would not notice anything.

I use the gold bullet connectors from Horizon. (no problems so far as I cross my fingers)




Both my CC ESC's will be hook to a "y" and the to the Throttle port. (these do not have a BEC)
The separate battery is hooked to the RX Batt. port.

For ESC's with a BEC you would need to first disable the BEC. This can be done by clipping the power wire that goes to the Throttle port of your RX (from the ESC that is) Then the only power to your RX and servos comes from the Battery port not the Throttle port.


Yikes! Don't clip it! Buy a cheap, short extension and clip that!

constantCrash
11-16-2007, 06:54 PM
LL, I just noticed that you stated you were using a SmartBEC on the P-38. If it's the one they list on BP hobbies then it explicitly states it is NOT compatable with AR6000 receivers. (I know an AR6000 is not an AR6100 but it could be a problem)

Lieutenant Loughead
11-16-2007, 08:41 PM
LL, I just noticed that you stated you were using a SmartBEC on the P-38. If it's the one they list on BP hobbies then it explicitly states it is NOT compatable with AR6000 receivers. (I know an AR6000 is not an AR6100 but it could be a problem)It's interesting that you mention this. I didn't buy it from BP Hobbies -- I bought it directly from www.dimensionengineering.com (http://www.dimensionengineering.com)

On August 29, 2007, I was browsing their web site, and saw a line of text that said something like, "NEW -- our Smart BEC is compatable with Spektrum receivers!" This concerned me, so I e-mailed the good people at Dimension Engineering...

I received a quick response that said, "SmartBEC was released in early 2005 and Spektrum's transmitters and receivers were released shortly afterwards. We discovered there was an incompatibility problem arising from the Spektrum receivers outputting 0-3.0V TTL instead of the usual 0-3.3V or 0-5.0V TTL that most receivers output. The behaviour was that SmartBEC would never be able to read signals coming from the receiver and process them, which meant that the ESC never received any throttle commands. We have been shipping Spektrum compatible SmartBECs since Sept 2005 or so, and if you were able to fly your plane at all it means that you definitely didn't receive one of the old ones."

So, I think I'm okay on that front -- but thank you for pointing me in that direction! :)

rea59
11-17-2007, 01:12 PM
Yikes! Don't clip it! Buy a cheap, short extension and clip that!

LOL Agreed!

I should have thought of that.:o

guest001
11-17-2007, 05:01 PM
LOL Agreed!

I should have thought of that.:o

Yes, I felt the same way WHEN I READ IT ON THIS FORUM! (Not that stinking miasma-filled swamp called "RCG."):)

Lieutenant Loughead
11-17-2007, 10:01 PM
Ugh -- I got another Spektrum reboot today... I had almost 100 flights on my GWS ME-109...

Today, I experienced a radio lockout 17 minutes into the flight. Normally, flight times are no less than 20 minutes. I never hit LVC during this flight -- just radio lockout. :(

However, the P-51 problem seems to be fixed by a replacement Phoenix 25 from Castle Creations... :confused:

UncleBob
11-21-2007, 02:52 AM
I'm wondering if it's possible one or more of your servos is a little wonky and is surging the BEC down to below 3.5 volts by drawing too much current intermittently. Have you tracked the problem against which servos you were using?

Lieutenant Loughead
11-21-2007, 02:34 PM
Yes -- each crashed airplane used a completely different set of servos. I don't believe the servos are to blame.

Phoenex
11-21-2007, 04:03 PM
Are your battery-esc connection wires 12 inches or shorter total length?

Are you positive that high quality soldiering and other connection types are being used?

The two cell lipo idea for an rx battery would require a regulator, that's too much voltage. Why not try a small rx 4 or 5 cell and find out if there is possibly something else at the field that might be causing the Spektrum to shut down?

I have a cc Thunderbird 18 that I have used with my Spektrum rx running that battery down so low that the plane will barely fly and have never had an issue with lockout.

Spektrum does make a low voltage spike control unit that could added to help with this issue. You can find it at the link below.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPM1600

Lastly, one of the big reasons to buy cc is the great support. What is the issue with giving them a call? Perhaps they can help you run down this problem. Good Luck....

Lieutenant Loughead
11-21-2007, 04:24 PM
Are your battery-esc connection wires 12 inches or shorter total length?Easily. I'm using the stock wires on everything, with the exception of the P-38. The P-38 has two motors, and two ESCs, so the 11.1-volt wires run from the battery, across the wing to each boom, where the ESCs are located.

Are you positive that high quality soldiering and other connection types are being used?Yes. I have an engineering degree, and lots of soldering experience. I usually use the professional soldering stations in the R&D lab, though I sometimes use my personal soldering iron at home.

I use Deans connectors for most applications, with the exception of JST connectors for a few applications under 8 amps.

Spektrum does make a low voltage spike control unit that could added to help with this issue. You can find it at the link below.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPM1600
Yeah, I've been looking at that. They're out of stock until mid-January... Do you happen to know the value of that capacitor?

Phoenex
11-21-2007, 04:39 PM
Yes. I have an engineering degree, and lots of soldering experience. I usually use the professional soldering stations in the R&D lab, though I sometimes use my personal soldering iron at home.

Have you tested the total amp draw with all of your servos connected moving them around at the same time on high rates?


Yeah, I've been looking at that. They're out of stock until mid-January... Do you happen to know the value of that capacitor?

10v 4700mfd

UncleBob
11-21-2007, 06:18 PM
JR connectors:

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5494

https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3847

guest001
11-21-2007, 08:27 PM
O.K., I don't have a degree in electrical engineering (just a J.D. and an LL.M.): can someone post the laymen's guide to rigging up a capacitor of this value (plans and specifications would be ideal).

Lieutenant Loughead
11-21-2007, 08:49 PM
Have you tested the total amp draw with all of your servos connected moving them around at the same time on high rates? Yes -- and all the data was given to Larry Ince at Horizon Hobby. He said everything looked good.

Again, I don't see how the servos can be the problem, when a different set of servos was used on each of four crashed airplanes, the BECs were different, and one airplane had over 90 successful flights before being switched to a Spektrum receiver (and it crashed).

10v 4700mfdCool -- where did you find this information?

Lieutenant Loughead
11-21-2007, 08:51 PM
O.K., I don't have a degree in electrical engineering (just a J.D. and an LL.M.): can someone post the laymen's guide to rigging up a capacitor of this value (plans and specifications would be ideal).I always wanted to get my J.D. (I went with an engineering undergrad, so I could go into patent law -- what's an LL.M? :confused:

Anyway, the capacitor will be VERY easy to install. The 10v 4700 microFared capacitor has two connectors (positive and negative). Just solder the positive pin to the red wire of a servo connector, and solder the negative pin to the black wire of the same servo connector. You're done. :cool:

guest001
11-21-2007, 08:53 PM
I always wanted to get my J.D. (I went with an engineering undergrad, so I could go into patent law -- what's an LL.M? :confused:

Anyway, the capacitor will be VERY easy to install. The 10v 4700 microFared capacitor has two connectors (positive and negative). Just solder the positive pin to the red wire of a servo connector, and solder the negative pin to the black wire of the same servo connector. You're done. :cool:

Inverse order: thanks, even I can do that (do you want the Optic 6?).

An LL.M. is a higher degree in law, between a masters degree and a ph.d. Mine is in Admiralty and Maritime law. You know, whatever floats your boat (or blows your skirt up!). :)

UncleBob
11-21-2007, 08:55 PM
Cool -- where did you find this information?


Given x700 I'd go with 4700 as it's a standard value. But then if I build any (might in bigger planes) I think I'll go with whatever 5v+ capacitor is big and readily available. I believe I saw some 6.3v 10Kmfd caps for very cheap someplace, and I hve 4 JR pigtails in my parts bins.

EDIT: LT, if you're still gonna try and make the DX7 work I can snail-mail you one of the JR pigtails I have.

EpoweredRc
11-21-2007, 10:20 PM
I have two Ar6100 two CC25A Esc and 4 HS55 in both setups running a 4 cell A123 cell pack in one of the planes with a E flite 480 motor.

and in the other a Himax geared 6:1 and no problems on either

guest001
11-21-2007, 10:53 PM
Well, that's good news: how long?

EpoweredRc
11-21-2007, 11:34 PM
Well, that's good news: how long?
I have at least 60 flights on both. one the one I used it on a trex450 heli for about 30 flights then on a new aiplane set up as I said for 30 more flights. The other I know I have at least that many with it I had it first.

Phoenex
11-22-2007, 01:20 AM
Cool -- where did you find this information?<!-- / message -->

I belong to several rc forums, researched it and then looked at the picture again to see that it matches.

Lieutenant Loughead
11-22-2007, 01:37 AM
Given x700 I'd go with 4700 as it's a standard value. But then if I build any (might in bigger planes) I think I'll go with whatever 5v+ capacitor is big and readily available. I believe I saw some 6.3v 10Kmfd caps for very cheap someplace, and I hve 4 JR pigtails in my parts bins.Yeah, I was thinking 4700 uF as well. I don't see any reason to go larger -- it's not about replacing a receiver battery; it's about filtering out noise.

EDIT: LT, if you're still gonna try and make the DX7 work I can snail-mail you one of the JR pigtails I have.Sure -- I'll take you up on that. We probably have a bunch of those caps in the R&D lab (I just have to go look for them)... Heck, I might even have one or two in my toy box of electronic parts I like to play with... :cool:

rick88ss
01-07-2008, 07:34 AM
What position is your Spektrum antenna in when you fly? Pointing stright up at 90 degrees or straight out without a bend?

Lieutenant Loughead
01-07-2008, 04:40 PM
I've had four failures with it pointing straight up, and four failures with it pointing 90 degrees to the left.

kyleservicetech
05-11-2008, 07:42 PM
I've had a single failure with the Spektrum AR 7000 receiver. Was very fortunate that it quit while on the ground during taxi tests in my driveway.

It just lost all control of the servos, even though the receiver LED was still on. Since I've got 45 years experience in electronic repair, I wanted to find out what happened, expecially since it started working once I got the model in the house.

The problem was traced to the vertical circuit board that supports the gold servo connection points. The center pins represent the positive battery connection. I found that the center pin of the battery connector on the receiver had high resistance between it and the center pins of the servo connection points. Took the receiver covers off, and found that a plated through hole on the double sided circuit board was not plated through on the battery positive pin.

This can be checked by a micro-ohm test, if you know someone who knows how to do it. (It involves running about 5 Amps through the center pin of the battery plus pin which connects to the center servo pins. Then measure the voltage drop ON THE PINS of these two connections. It should be very low, on the order of millivolts.)

I contacted Spektrum who responded "Never heard of that one before". They offered to fix the receiver, but I just used a micro tip on my soldering station and fixed it myself.

Since then, I've got two Spektrum radios, and 6 receivers. All have worked flawlessly in a variety of models. Three of them are running on CC separate BEC regulators on a 6S2P A123 set up.