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GallopingGhost
11-07-2005, 02:14 AM
I have been using the JST's with the 22 gauge wire with what seems to be ok. The JST's have to be way past design limits pushing 12 plus amps. I am thinking of going to Dean's Ultras. What are you running?

Mike Parsons
11-07-2005, 02:16 AM
GG,
I think JST are rated at 8-10 amps, so yep, pushing it just a bit. I have melted them at around 14 amps.

On anything 15 amps and less, I use deans micro connectors and anything over 15 I use deans ultra.

-Mike

Dr Kiwi
11-07-2005, 12:51 PM
I use MP Jet Gold Connectors for everything!

qban_flyer
11-07-2005, 02:48 PM
I use Deans Micro connectors 12 amps and below. Deans Ultras take over at that current draw point.

Astro Flight "Zero Loss" connectors are elegant and very nice for high current applications, but they are more expensive!

hoppy
11-07-2005, 03:34 PM
Dean Micros up to 16A burst, 12A continuous.... JST's, I quit using them because of the high resistance/failure rate at anything above 5A. Some get away with using them....could be a quality difference between manufacturers??

GallopingGhost
11-07-2005, 10:59 PM
Dean Micros up to 16A burst, 12A continuous.... JST's, I quit using them because of the high resistance/failure rate at anything above 5A. Some get away with using them....could be a quality difference between manufacturers??

I think JST is a trade name like AMP used to be. But I have noticed JST's come with different size wire and some are gold plated. I think I have been lucky with them so far but they have such small contact area they have to give up something at some point.

flyranger
11-07-2005, 11:39 PM
I use e-flite 3.5mm gold bullets on everything! I use color coded heat shrink to prevent accidental discharge.

Tweet
11-10-2005, 11:20 AM
Anderson Powerpoles. The crimp tool makes it easy.

50+AirYears
11-11-2005, 01:26 AM
Every time I see where somebody has the equipment to measure the contact resistance, they seem to put the Deans as the lowest, Zero loss as second, and the Sermos type #3.
That directly transcribes to Voltage loss and therefore wasted energy across the connectors.
Of course, any of those three are fantastically better than almost anything else, at least for the larger motor draws.

qban_flyer
11-11-2005, 02:42 AM
Every time I see where somebody has the equipment to measure the contact resistance, they seem to put the Deans as the lowest, Zero loss as second, and the Sermos type #3.
That directly transcribes to Voltage loss and therefore wasted energy across the connectors.
Of course, any of those three are fantastically better than almost anything else, at least for the larger motor draws.

Ever since I witnessed a model go up in flames in the hands of the model's owner because of bad Sermos, I've switched to Deans Ultra exclusively. Sermos are difficult to get to make a secure and solid connection, even if one cleans the contacts on a regular basis. I de-oxidize my connectors once every six months on average.

I have been using 100% 1, 1, 1-Trichloroethane Inhibited to clean "critical" electrical connections for well over 15 years now. Unfortunately it was declared substance non grata by the EPA seven or so years ago and taken off the market. I was fortunate enough to stock up on it before the "removal" deadline and have enough to last me two lifetimes.

BTW, for park flyer and 3D foamy profile planes I use Deans Micros (12 amps and under). I avoid JST like the plague!

wperko
11-15-2005, 03:35 PM
:cool: Hi,

I don't know the amp rating, but I use Anderson Power Poles too for the ease of use and construction ... I solder mine rather than crimp though ...
I got'em from: http://www.helihobby.com/html/WIRES1.html pretty cheap ...

My latest project is a 1KW SIG Kadet Senior ARF 3D ...
http://hobbybarn.com/proddetail.php?prod=RC58ARFR

... it's almost ready to go fly soon as I get larger landing gear so the prop will clear the deck ...

I'm setting it up with;
Batteries:
http://www.thunderpower-batteries.com/ Thunder Power TP8S2P LiPo's

ESC/Controller:
http://www.modelelectronicscorp.com/products/smsc/phoenix-hv45.html (http://www.castlecreations.com/)Castle Creations HV-45

Brushless/Outrunner Motor:
http://www.icare-rc.com/plettenberg_xtra25.htm Plettenberg Xtra 25/12

and Propeller:
http://www.apcprop.com/ APC-E 16"/10

I'm using http://www.microfasteners.com MicroFasteners.com
M3x40 Alloy bolts , M4x15 Alloy bolts, Alunimum spacers & washers etc ... for the motor mount ...

Pictures of the progress ... video to come after it's flying; :D
http://www.brainless.org/MultiMedia/RC/Pictures/Capt.Kill4Fun/PlettenbergPoweredUltra3D-SIGKadetSeniorARF/


My flying pages; :cool:
http://www.brainless.org/MultiMedia/RC/Documents/zBigPageOfElectricFlight/zBigPageElectricFlight.htm


http://www.brainless.org/MultiMedia/RC/Pictures/Capt.Kill4Fun/theElectricRed-SIG-Kadet-Senior/P0003879Walt-n-Senior-e100x98.jpg
Capt.Kill4Fun

qban_flyer
11-15-2005, 08:05 PM
:cool: Hi,

I solder mine rather than crimp though ...


The only way to get a properly secured and solid electrical connection is by soldering. Crimping, though recommended by some is not as good a connection as soldering. :)

50+AirYears
11-15-2005, 08:31 PM
Technically, a proper crimp forms a better electrical connection than a solder joint. The lead in solder increases the resistance in the junction between two metals. However, it's hard to get a quality crimp using any kind of hand tools.
General Motors has for years taught that a mechanical crimp, using properly maintained and adjusted power crimpers, will give a connection with lower resistance than can be obtained in a solder joint. And in their labs, they will be able to prove it.
Connections magazine has backed this idea. Seems the pressure exerted by power crimpers, especially if they are well maintained, will give what is called a "Cold Weld", in which the wires and the metal of the connectors to some degree flow together. If you work with commercially prepared harnesses, you will see the little "spot welds" on the surfaces. You will rarely get this with hand crimpers. In fact, in their connector catalog, Delphi actually recommends the soldering of wires to the connector barrels when hand crimpers are used.
Also, if too much solder is used, the solder can flow back along the wire under the insulation and create a stress riser that could cause wire breakage under vibration.
For our purposes, since we usually can't justify the cost of a $14000 crimper, soldering may be the only way to go. But, that means good solder joints, not careless ones.

olmod
11-15-2005, 08:39 PM
umm dare i say that not all solders are the same:) check out sometime what HP uses on their intrumentation and why.

qban_flyer
11-15-2005, 08:41 PM
General Motors has for years taught that a mechanical crimp, using properly maintained and adjusted power crimpers, will give a connection with lower resistance than can be obtained in a solder joint. And in their labs, they will be able to prove it.


As you stated in your last post, we can't justify the cost of a $14k crimper for our usage, especially if we don't have the means to keep it properly adjusted and calibrated. So we are limited to soldering our connections.

I have been using silver solder in my solder joints since the 70s, long before I got into electric flight. And yes, an improper solder joint (cold one) is just as useless as a proor crimping one, regardless of whether one uses the best solder available or not.

50+AirYears
11-15-2005, 10:51 PM
Qban, is that silver solder the older 62/36/2 tin/lead/silver solder, or is it the newer RoHS 97/3 tin/silver or 96.5/3/.5 tin/silver/copper alloy.

We've been trying to get used to the no-lead solder forthe upcoming international regulations where I work, and the newer stuff is crappola. Higher soldering temperatures that can delaminate traces from the board material or damage components if your iron is only a little too hot and you leave it on the joint too long, stronger surface tension that makes soldering small parts on a board super touchy. Possible problems with a different rate of thermal expansion. And according to several articles in some Aerospace Industry and Defense magazines I get, a propensity to develop unpredictable tin whiskers that a touch of lead would suppress that have created reliability problems in things like 4 or 5 sattelites, the Patriot and Sidewinder missles, and a number of other systems that went lead-free several years ago.
And yes, a cold solder joint is at least as bad as a bad crimp or an overheated solder joint.

qban_flyer
11-15-2005, 11:05 PM
Qban, is that silver solder the older 62/36/2 tin/lead/silver solder, or is it the newer RoHS 97/3 tin/silver or 96.5/3/.5 tin/silver/copper alloy.

We've been trying to get used to the no-lead solder forthe upcoming international regulations where I work, and the newer stuff is crappola. Higher soldering temperatures that can delaminate traces from the board material or damage components if your iron is only a little too hot and you leave it on the joint too long, stronger surface tension that makes soldering small parts on a board super touchy. Possible problems with a different rate of thermal expansion. And according to several articles in some Aerospace Industry and Defense magazines I get, a propensity to develop unpredictable tin whiskers that a touch of lead would suppress that have created reliability problems in things like 4 or 5 sattelites, the Patriot and Sidewinder missles, and a number of other systems that went lead-free several years ago.
And yes, a cold solder joint is at least as bad as a bad crimp or an overheated solder joint.

62/36/2 tin/lead/silver solder, or is it the newer RoHS 97/3?

Both. The purpose for which we use it is not as critical as satellite use, and the heat is applied evenly and carefully. We are dealing with point to point solder joints, and hard wired discrete components.

For the purpose we are discussing in this thread it would make not much difference if you slightly overheat the connectors or wire, since the connectors and wire used are of a rather gauge (14). We are not dealing with delicate PCB traces that could be destroyed in the hands of careless operators here. The very reason I strongly advise against people dismantling and getting crafty with their Li-Po packs.

olmod
11-15-2005, 11:41 PM
I use MP Jet Gold Connectors for everything!
Ill second that :D

savydad
11-19-2005, 07:16 AM
I've used powerpoles for 15 years...I subscribed to rc car action back then, and this was before the dean's ultras came out. They did a review and test on voltage loss and resistance. The astro's came out under them pp's and the old deans came out under them. I've read other independent reports that the ultras come in a bit under the pp's, and that is nice, BUT the report in rcca stated that the voltage loss/resistance was less than that of a 1" piece of 12 ga wire for any of these 3. Pretty moot, IMHO. If you need to extract every possible micron of performance, direct soldering to the pack and motor is absolute diehard best. Pan car racers have been doing it for years. But, in our quick-change apps, a connector that has the equivalent of a 1" piece of wire will suffice and give the quick-changability. My main reason for deciding on the powerpoles 15 years ago was not that they had the best performance (before dean's ultras) but that they were cheaper than any other, including the dreaded tamiya's. I use the jst's for my aaa packs, and have dean's on a few, with an adaptor to mate down to the jst on my 5a escs. Most of what I have read says that 5a is the limit, and that is pushing it, given manufacturing ups and downs. I have found that the pp's can be reduced in length by half simply cutting off the back half of them, and will be going to them with all, as the better the connection, the less chance of a loss of control in a plane. So, in the end, my decision on the astro/dean/sermos came down to simply cost...the performance just cannot be noticed between the 3. Would the average flyer notice a difference if they shortened 1 lead just 1"? I think not.

Todd

Reddog
11-23-2005, 02:09 AM
An interesting thread! Just what I need!
I'm flying a Comet Aeronca Champ. The kit is from 1973 and was acquired by trade. I'm powering it with a GWS 350, geared 3.75 X 1 and using an APC-E 9 X 6 prop.. I'm also using a Hitec Micro 555 and a CC Pixie 20. With this setup I'm using various LiPo 2S battery sets, 1250 to 1500. Also some 1000 NiMh. The plane has a 54" span and weighs 15.3 oz., overall.
I've experienced times when the motor seemed to have very little power and might even quit completely, especially at launch? Other times it performs very well. At first, I suspected the motor and replaced it. Now I'm wondering about the wiring and connectors. Some of the batteries are wired with 20/22 ga. wires and JST connectors, some with 16 ga. wires and Dean's Ultra (which I can't use with this plane). The motor uses small wire and a small black plug which will plug into a JST. I don't know what it's called. The Pixie 20 has heavy wire but I've attached JST connectors for the motor and battery hook ups. Another place that uses small wire is the micro switch on the side of the plane to turn the power off and on.
My question is, do I need to change all this lite wire over to 16 ga. and install Dean's Ultra connectors? Even on the motor?
Dick

qban_flyer
11-23-2005, 04:21 AM
An interesting thread! Just what I need!
My question is, do I need to change all this lite wire over to 16 ga. and install Dean's Ultra connectors? Even on the motor?
Dick

Hi Dick,

IMHO, you should switch to the same wire gauge throughout you power system. Do switch to a heavier gauge type of connector between battery pack and ESC. I use Deans Micro Plugs for everything up to 12 amp consumption wired with 16 gauge wire. Above that I switch to Deans Ultra Plugs and go to 14 gauge.

You can also opt to solder the ESC motor side leads to the motor directly instead of adding another connecting point between motor and the ESC. It is the way I do my brushed affairs all the way up to a Speed 400 size. Matter of choice here, though for convenience's sake orf removing the motro from the plane, having connectors there would simplify things a bit.

I just opened another browser and went to the GWS site. It appears that the prop you are using is a bit large for the battery/motor/gearbox combination you are using. Link to the GWS 350 motors with different gear boxes/props/battery pack's performance are posted there.

BTW, that's a gorgeous looking Comet Champ. I still have mine in kit form in my stock room. In the third photo it looks like a full sized one on climbout. Good show!

http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/powersystem/eps350c.htm

Reddog
11-23-2005, 07:01 AM
qban,
It is full size, 54", beefed up in the front end for electric!
As to my question, I think I'll go to all Dean's Ultra and 14-16 gage wire. That way, everything will interchange. Especially batteries and esc's. I have some smaller FF and small foam IPS types that I'll leave with JST's. I use NiCds for the FF and 2S-340's for the foam.
Here's where I got my prop info.
http://www.balsapr.com/catalog/motors/EPS350cView.asp?ProductId=T390141&LargeImage=yes
I've used 8, 9, and 10" props with pretty good luck. Mostly APC-E's. This 350, geared 3.75 X 1 is pretty snappy in models 10 to 16 oz..
I just got my first brushless, an E-Zone 400 Outrunner. Talk about a handfull for an old man! I'm running it in a scratch built Daddy-O, by Thayer, out of the Fly RC mag.. I made mine 36" span and it came in at 16 oz. with the 400 and 2S-1250 Lipo's. A real hot dog!
I appreciate your help! It's sack time in Kansas!
Dick

qban_flyer
11-23-2005, 07:08 AM
qban,
It is full size, 54", beefed up in the front end for electric!
As to my question, I think I'll go to all Dean's Ultra and 14-16 gage wire. That way, everything will interchange. Especially batteries and esc's. I have some smaller FF and small foam IPS types that I'll leave with JST's. I use NiCds for the FF and 2S-340's for the foam.
Here's where I got my prop info.
http://www.balsapr.com/catalog/motors/EPS350cView.asp?ProductId=T390141&LargeImage=yes
I've used 8, 9, and 10" props with pretty good luck. Mostly APC-E's. This 350, geared 3.75 X 1 is pretty snappy in models 10 to 16 oz..
I just got my first brushless, an E-Zone 400 Outrunner. Talk about a handfull for an old man! I'm running it in a scratch built Daddy-O, by Thayer, out of the Fly RC mag.. I made mine 36" span and it came in at 16 oz. with the 400 and 2S-1250 Lipo's. A real hot dog!
I appreciate your help! It's sack time in Kansas!
Dick

You certainly have some nice looking birds there. That little red thing looks FAST sitting there! I have no clue as to what is old anymore. I stopped counting @ 60.

Going to Deans Ultras will add uniformity to everything in the Aeronca.

Nice to have been able to assist you.

Do take care :)

Reddog
11-23-2005, 07:15 AM
Thanks, Q!
I just passed seven decades this past summer!
Dick