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AEAJR
08-07-2005, 06:45 AM
I spend a lot of time reading the internet forums for information and tips about RC flying, fixing my planes, which gadgets to buy and the like. On many occasions I have reached out to that community for specific help, and they have responded, sometimes with amazing enthusiasm. Likewise I try to help others when I can, I tying to help the new guys along into this wonderful hobby that I have come to enjoy. :)

I guess it is a form of being part of a club. When I read the posts in this forum and others, the names become familiar. Being part of this on-line community has helped to add a social aspect to the hobby that makes it that much more fun.

However forums, no matter how active and helpful they are, lack real contact with real people. That is where clubs come in. Clubs add that extra dimension to this hobby, the dimension of real people.

I have read many posts about people who don't want to join a club for one reason or another. I don't plan to argue those points, but to share what I have found in club membership. You draw your own conclusions.

I have found this club aversion especially common among new electric pilots because, for the most part, it is easier to go it alone with the electrics than with the fuel planes and sailplanes. You need less space, you need less equipment, the planes are typically small and quiet so you can go off by
yourself and fly and in many cases no one will bother you. However, hang with me for a moment because, while you might be having a great time, this post is about having more fun than you are having now.

I almost didn't join the club to which I now belong. I was an electric flyer and they were a sailplane club that was struggling with the idea of admitting new members who were just flying electrics. Even before I joined there was pressure being applied that I should learn to fly sailplanes, I had to build a kit, it had to be a sailplane, blah blah blah. :mad: However they were not going to force me and I can stand up to a little pressure. The field was close and large, I knew one guy in the club and there were a few pilots flying electrics in addition to sailplanes, so I joined. Boy am I glad that I did.

After almost 30 months, I am having so much fun, I wonder if I am breaking a law somewhere. :p To a large extent that fun is due to the wonderful people I have met in the club. People who are just fun to be around and share this great hobby. I have found that flying with a group of people who share my
interests is more fun than flying alone.

Oh, there are politics and I am sure not everyone likes me, but that is the world as a whole. There are people who still feel I am missing the good part of the hobby because I don't build all my planes from kits, but they have come to accept me as an RTF guy with a dabbling of ARF experience and salvaging other people's cast off planes.

Many of my planes I purchased from club members already built. Some were actually given to me because the member just didn't have room, or didn't feel like having that plane anymore and thought I would like it. Some are are called humpty dumpty projects. :eek: I put 'em back together again. In the process I am learning to build and to fix.

I recently asked for a little help during a meeting. Man, these guys could not do enough for me. People were e-mailing me with information, sources, and knowledge I didn't even know I needed. It has been great!

After a while I did try sailplanes and found that, as much as I enjoy the electrics, I LOVE sailplanes. Now the point is not that you should fly sailplanes. Heavens no, sailplanes is not for everyone. It is that I had my own ideas about things, they opened me up to new ideas, some I accepted and
some I did not. If you are a person that will be intimidated by people arguing over a point or giving you advice you didn't ask for, then stay on the edge. You will find lots of company on the edge and some of those people are wonderful people with whom you would like to fly.

If you can accept that this is how the world works and enjoy the flow of ideas, get into it and become an active member. Perhaps you can even become a leader. Heck they may make you President because you bring new ideas to the club. Our President, President of a sailplane club, started on a Firebird XL.

Net net, it is the people as much as the planes that have made this a wonderful experience for me. I have made many new friends, and perhaps an enemy or two. Yes, the club has restricted me in a few areas but they have expended my experience so much in others that, well, I can live with it.

There are safety reasons, insurance reasons, instruction reasons and all sorts of other excellent reasons to join a club, but the main one is fun. The club has made a very enjoyable experience more fun than I could ever have imagined.
If you had a bad club experience, try a different club!

If you are new to the hobby, I strongly suggest you seek out the clubs in your area. If you don't know how to find them, click on the AMA link below for the national club listing
http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubmain.asp?sid=E99630B5676C46F7872E67B6DCBD493


Stop in and chat with the members. There is probably a club in your area that is made up of people who share your interests and who would richen your flying experience.

If there are no clubs in your area, then start one. Contact the AMA or the organizing body in your country and find out what it takes to start a club. I promise you that there are other people in your area who would just LOVE to join, if they only knew there was a club somewhere to join. Most of these
people are folks you would love to meet.

Want to have more fun? Join a club! ;)

Clear skies and safe flying!

Reformed Nitroaddict
08-07-2005, 01:40 PM
Very good an informative post, Ed - Thanks again for your positive input.

DoctorFive
08-08-2005, 04:07 AM
Nice post Ed.

I also recently joined a local club (about 18 miles away) that caters to both sail planes and electrics, and I couldn't be happier. Not only have I met some really nice and knowlegable people, but it is also nice to have a LARGE field dedicated to just electrics and sail planes.....we no longer have to wait for the soccer and lacrosse kids to finish their games before flying!

Also, joining the AMA will give our hobby some political power to preserve our frequencies and flying fields (the insurance is nice also).



Jerry

yufasa
08-08-2005, 08:13 PM
My club is about 15 miles away and even though I can fly my electrics off the front porch (and I do) I love spending time at the field with the guys.
My club is mainly nitro sport planes with a few sail planes. I introduced the wonder of the modern electrics and have gotten a few guys hooked. (Not nearly enough though - still have to duck out of the way of a big nitro ready to make my electric cannon fodder :))

2dogrc
08-08-2005, 09:48 PM
Why join a club? Well why get married, you can do all the same stuff by yourself, but it sure is alot better with a partner!

Clubs make the sport more socail and more enjoyable. I can not count the times fellow members have helped me out with adice or small screws at the field. The club field is a bank of knowledge that no beginner should pass up! I kinda push the electric stuff hard at my field. I bring 2-3 airplanes and let the slimers fly them. I have converted a few now that prices are dropping. It is neat to here them say, you can't fly that foamy, there is too much wind!

AEAJR
08-08-2005, 10:09 PM
Nice post Ed.

I also recently joined a local club (about 18 miles away) that caters to both sail planes and electrics, and I couldn't be happier. Not only have I met some really nice and knowlegable people, but it is also nice to have a LARGE field dedicated to just electrics and sail planes.....we no longer have to wait for the soccer and lacrosse kids to finish their games before flying!
Jerry

Interesting! Sailplanes and electrics seem to be quite compatible. Perhaps because e-gliders have been around for a while. Perhaps because they both value light construction. Maybe it is the quiet flight character of the planes.

AEAJR
08-08-2005, 10:12 PM
I have converted a few now that prices are dropping. It is neat to here them say, you can't fly that foamy, there is too much wind!

Oh boy do I love it when the guy with the big gas plane says that. Oh boy do I love it! :eek: Just watch me!!! :)

This is not a snit on my part, rather it is fun to enlighten them to how far te electrics, even teh low cost RTFs, have come. :p

Catchinathermal
08-09-2005, 04:02 AM
I sure wish all of you so far, lived near me! Great attitudes! Nice first posts.

There is a club about 20 miles from me, and I have tried, to edge, work my way into their good graces. Not much going on within 100 miles of where I live...I have met with several local members and thought it was going great. They were going to call me back when they would be doing something! Now I know how those lonely dates felt sitting by the phone! I even went so far as to join the AMA as it was one of their regulations. Did not renew, as my local cowfield didn't require it.

Well a year has gone by, my follow up calls and emails have gone unanswered, and here I sit with 6 newly built planes and nowhere and no-one to fly with!

I do believe in groups, and I have been married (to the same woman) for nearly 30 years, but obviously the group near me is not looking for new members.

Good luck to WattFlyer, may the "Amperage" be with them!

Any thoughts and suggestions?!

Thanks ahead of time!

AEAJR
08-09-2005, 04:12 AM
Did you check the club locator? Remember that the address is not the location of the field, it is the home of a member.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubmain.asp?sid=3D490C78380448B0A15E31DE4FA6F552

Catchinathermal
08-09-2005, 12:30 PM
Thanks!

I did find several that were within 25 miles!

I shot an email to them, now maybe I'll get to "skuff" some dirt!

Thanks again!

incomming
08-09-2005, 03:52 PM
the only reason i got into electrics is because when i got out of the service i was staying at my parents house who live on a gulf course and it was perfect.... no i am addected to the electrics and cant get away from them, but my next jump is into the turbine world, but electrics will always be my back yard fun... and even at the clubs the nitro guy cant beleave how well the electrics fly

John Seidelman
08-12-2005, 01:01 AM
The only drawback to joining a club like the AMA is The Price. You can buy another plane for that kind of money. And fly free!

Catchinathermal
08-12-2005, 01:14 AM
I was given an offer of $30 from the AMA because I had done a trial membership last year. Never flew!

I went to their web-site as suggested above, I emailed several (Local Club) what you might call orginizers, and have never received a reply, so far! So, why join a club, What Club?

Anyone out there close to Blooming Grove PA? I doubt if they would come to this thread!

AEAJR
08-12-2005, 03:53 AM
The only drawback to joining a club like the AMA is The Price. You can buy another plane for that kind of money. And fly free!

Yep, joining a club is a drag!

Free flight training
Secure field
Great guys
Sometimes free stuff
Lots of fun!

Yep, I could see where that might not be attractive to some people. But I like it and I find it pretty cheap, but what is cheap to one person is expensive to another.

vicman
08-12-2005, 05:58 AM
I just joined club #II today. It helps the hobby stay alive. Course I don't join clubs with the old grumpy farts.

Catchinathermal
08-12-2005, 11:14 AM
At this point, I'd take grumpy old farts clubs:D!

Matt Kirsch
08-12-2005, 02:37 PM
Even in this day and age of wonderous technology, some people still consider email as a secondary form of communication, especially older folks. What one generation considers rude (not answering an email), is different from what another generation considers rude (sending an email instead of calling or coming in person).

A phone call, or better yet, an in-person visit to the field or a club meeting might yield better results.

AEAJR
08-12-2005, 02:48 PM
Thanks!

I did find several that were within 25 miles!

I shot an email to them, now maybe I'll get to "skuff" some dirt!

Thanks again!

If you don't get a response, don't be discouraged. When I first started looking for a club I didn't hear back from most when I sent an e-mail. Some responses came a month later.

Now, having been part of a club for a while, I have learned a few things that may be helpful.

Clubs are not businessess. They don't have paid staff. Evey job is handled by a club member. Some are very good at administrative stuff, like dealing with e-mail and some are aweful.

Jobs change often. The e-mail address listed may no longer be valid. They may have forgotten to change it or have been unable to get it updated.

As stated above, sometimes, if a phone number is listed, a call is better. You might learn that the contact listed is no longer the contact. Where they might just delete an e-mail as JUNK, they might be happy to speak to you on the phone. Everyone is different.

If you get no response from the club directly, go to the AMA site and look for the contact list. I would send an e-mail to someone in charge of membership or clubs and ask for their help.

Clubs are made up of people and some are not good administrators. Keep trying.:)

Rabbitcreekok
08-13-2005, 05:30 AM
When I wanted to get involved in R/C flying about 5 years ago, I went to the small town airport about 30 miles from me where the Kiamachi Valley Flyers flew on Sundays. I didn't call or e-mail, just went. I was welcomed with enthusiasm and help. I joined the club and the AMA, as that was a requirement.

I live in the country and have a full size runway on my land where I fly at my leisure. However, I still go to fly with the club members. Sometimes I don't even take anything to fly, I just go to help others and have a great time. We have a flyin every year, which brings in lots of other flyers and planes. I can go to any club flying field within 100 miles and know someone there.

One advantage of joining AMA is the insurance coverage that comes with membership. Don't think that flying a park flyer in the park doesn't mean that someone else may not get hurt. They can get away from us and a prop spinning at 10,000 rpm can do some damage to eyes or even fingers. Our flyers may be light but they have mass and at 30 or 40 or 50 mph, they can injure and I for one would like to have insurance on my side.

We have a great hobby and it is fun to share it with others who understand our addiction.

fergie
09-02-2005, 05:59 PM
I am just getting started in this hobby at 65 yrs and have 3 clubs in my area. I go meet with them for coffee to pick brains.:)
My beef is these guys have been flying for many years , getting their wings on gas models and since several are now flying electrics. I or a person like me comes along wanting to fly electrics are told you have to start with gas as thats the only way you can get your wings:mad:,And to expect to pay no less than $500.:eek: for your equipment.:rolleyes:Excuse me Ive done my research and know I can be happy flying my clean electric for less than half of that.
The way I see it is electric has come a long way in a short time and they should be putting thought:confused: into developing a means for the electric people to get their wings to fly at the field without going through the gas thing. A lot of them think you are not really flying unless its gas. Another words it our way or the highway. Typical of people set in their ways not wanting to progress with the times.
Don't get me wrong I think clubs are wonderful but they should make a bit of a effort to stay with the times.;) or evenually their numbers may dwindle.:o
Bottom line I guess I'll be flying at the ball field or soccer pitch.
Fergie:)

AEAJR
09-02-2005, 07:30 PM
Wow, three clubs in your area and all three insist you start on a glow powered plane? That is pretty harsh. I think I would head for the ballfield as well. Or, perhaps you might consider starting your own club for electric and glider flyers. The two seem to be very compatible.

There is one thing you can try.

Either in person, or by mail, you should thank them for their warm greeting and invitaion to join the club. However, since you have no interest in flying glow powered planes, you will be seeking other locations outside the club for your flying.

If you are on a 72 mhz channel, you might advise them of the channel you will be using so that they can avoid that channel. Then tell them to contact you if they ever become open to electric only flyers.

In that way, you have thanked them, told them you would be interested when they are interested, and advised them of possible channel conflict.

They may ignore you, they might invite you in and qualify you on electric, or they may contact you in the future. Better to have you and your radio on their field where frequency control can exist than to have you floating around outside the club on one of the channels they use.

In any case you have been curtious and made your feelings known.

If you can find a place to fly that is at least 2 miles from any of the fields, that would be best. You are less likely to get into channel conflict with one of their flyers which could cause both of you to crash.

No reason you can't continue to stop by the field to chat. Once they get to know you better, and hear how well you are doing, they might change their tune.

When I approached the club I joined, they pressured me hard to start on a glider. The reason, I learned later, was fear. Many feared that electrics would take over and the glider nature of hte club would die.

I resisted and went electric. The pressure continued but I got my wings on my Aerobird.

As it turns out, I am now DEEP into gliders and love them, but most of the new flyers I bring into the club, and I bring in a lot, are electric flyers. Some of them now also fly gliders. And some of the glider guys who resisted my electric orientation, have now themselves gone almost totally electric.

So it has turned out for the better for everyone. :)

Good luck with your flying.

debhicks
09-03-2005, 01:21 AM
The only drawback to joining a club like the AMA is The Price. You can buy another plane for that kind of money. And fly free!

You fly free until something happens and your liability insurance won't cover the cost. :( It's like medical insurance. Don't need it until you need it.

Twmaster
09-03-2005, 02:37 AM
But remember this. Your AMA insurance coverage is no good when you are not flying at a sanctioned field or event.

On the subject of clubs, I had been a member of a local club. They pretty much insisted I get a glow plane to 'qualify' on. I joined them anyway and after nearly two years left in disgust at all the politics and grumpy old SOBs. There were at least 10 others that left about the same time I did. A few of us now fly at a local school ball field. I have to agree with Ed on most of his points made in the original post on this thread. Great post. I also agree that flying with others is a great thing. I genuinely dislike flying alone.

Slent thndr
09-03-2005, 04:42 AM
I have a club that meets just a few miles from me. I was introduced to it by the same person that introduced me to the hobby. My main motivation to join is to get the key to my local field. Right now I have to park in the lot and walk into the field (a clearing in the woods about 5 min from my house) with all my equipment. The club has a contract with the parks department that allows their members to drive right onto the field.

Right now i just have to join AMA and then join the club.:) They are officially a sailplane club but seem to be very receptive to electric. I attended the annual glider competition that they put on, and got to see a winch launched glider rip to shreds in mid air :o (major bummer for the owner, but we warned him).

After the competition was over they got out their little electric park fliers and I got out my Combat Wing. They were really impressed with it and with my flying.

My overall impression of the club is a good one, i just have to officially join.:cool:

AEAJR
09-03-2005, 06:21 AM
Sounds like our club. Been a great experience for me. I hope yours is even better than mine. :)

debhicks
09-03-2005, 12:26 PM
Perhaps we are fortunate then to have great noise restrictions in the Mountains of North Carolina. It encourages electric or quieter methods to fly. The Asheville Club has lost more fields than they can count. But they have a nice club on the closed landfill. They fly everything there within their restrictions.

The second club we have flies everything too.

Sometimes we run into conflict with Heli's but with some discussion we have a sperate area for them to runup and train in and then when they want to fly with the flying flow they come onto the main field.

The little patch works nicely for those who have the small electric's and want to fly without bothering the bigger glow airplanes. That is in Asheville.

We don't have those problems yet at the Etowah club. They are both AMA Sanctioned clubs and enjoy the protection of the insurance, the group flying with our friends and everything else that comes along with being able fellowship with others that have the same interests.

It is simply something we believe in. We pay the AMA dues both of us and we pay dues at two clubs. To ensure we have places to fly. I will be looking into some the programs available to the AMA Sanctioned clubs in the future for some field improvements.

We have to squeeze our belts at certain times of the year because we outlay a lot of dues to fly. So we know about expensive.

The scary thing of flying off in a park setting is how close you may be to a field. With park flying more and more popular, until we get the synthisized radio's that will choose the free channel to fly on there could be more accidents. Increasing the risk of damaging property or hurting someone. It will only take one incident, to take a flyer to task, in a community to change community rules about using public area's to fly.

I do know of a park that will not allow flying and banned it because of reckless flying. They didn't want the liability either.

Those are just some experiences that I first hand know about. So I guess be safe and enjoy. At least with the spectra module I can change my frequency for no conflict and my husband just got the EVO 12 with the scanner module in it. It locks out the radio so it won't operate when someone else is on. It's cool. The future of frequency control is cool too. The AMA is working hard to get it working properly on 72 mHz so the freqency control/conflict will no longer be a problem. It will be expensive when it first comes out I imagine. (maybe not)

If this post has wierd characters in it my mouse is doing it's own thing.

locolobot
09-03-2005, 01:03 PM
Sounds like you need to start a rc club of your own. Some of us old men can't see the hand writing on the wall. That is the reason they are losing some of their flying fields. However, there are some of us who would welcome an electric club and field and the help you can provide us to change from glow or gas to electric. You would be suprised of how many of the older ones are afraid to show their ignorance of electric power. Building the plane is simple compared to finding and fitting an electric motor to it. Try helping them and they may welcome you.

AEAJR
09-03-2005, 03:03 PM
Sounds like you need to start a rc club of your own. Some of us old men can't see the hand writing on the wall. That is the reason they are losing some of their flying fields. However, there are some of us who would welcome an electric club and field and the help you can provide us to change from glow or gas to electric. You would be suprised of how many of the older ones are afraid to show their ignorance of electric power. Building the plane is simple compared to finding and fitting an electric motor to it. Try helping them and they may welcome you.

This is so true. Some of these guys are so deep in their knowledge and experience of the glow power world. They are the masters, the wizards and eveyone comes to them. :)

Now you have some new guy show up with an electric and they are stumped. Suddenly some kid ( 55 maybe) is the wizard and they are lost.:confused:

This is a hard thing to face. Help ease 'em into it. :cool:

debhicks
09-03-2005, 03:11 PM
The Asheville NC Club has a master Electric builder. He builds his own stuff and you would be amazed. I mean this out of awe struck respect, he isn't a spring chicken:). But he is one of my electric hero's and a flying sandbager:)

dregsfan
09-04-2005, 06:14 AM
My local club is $94 per year and requires AMA membership. Another $58. That's $152. :eek: A little steep for a newbie flyer. I'll stick with open fields and parks.

jonnyjetprop
09-04-2005, 07:15 AM
[quote=Twmaster]But remember this. Your AMA insurance coverage is no good when you are not flying at a sanctioned field or event.

Not true. Contact the AMA for exact details.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148189&page=2&pp=15&highlight=+AMA+insurance++

Check out post #22. It gives a reference to an AMA document that explains the rules.

John

locolobot
09-04-2005, 02:10 PM
I understand the dues of some clubs are a little steep. However, most clubs provide a new person with an instructor and a buddy box to help him learn without destroying his plane. So it seems to me that if you have to buy 2 or 3 planes to learn to fly verses having an instructor help and still have your first plane you are cheaper in the long run. Most electrics that I know of cost enough that two of them would pay your dues to AMA and the club for a year.

debhicks
09-04-2005, 02:24 PM
Know about the cost. We pay $75 at each club, and both our AMA's. Of course I take advantage of the family rate at both clubs and the AMA. There is always a cost to safely do anything.

It is a quandry with the AMA to have so many flyers that are out doing their own thing and not involved with clubs. Again, it will only take one incident in your area, to change the entire makeup for one or all that fly model airplanes. I have watched it happen more than once and been involved in "putting out the fires" that incidents have caused in the local community.

It was with glow, but we had a member who lost his high speed projectile in the middle of downtown and left a 12" pit in a thankfully empty parking lot. The club field was way too close to town and it caught up with us. Had another member loose his parasail and it landed about 3 miles after hitting the side of one of our pawn shops in town. Thankfully nothing came of either but it could have.

For instance the airplane incident was during one of the biggest festivals we have in town where most parking lots are full. I was thankfully early enough and he was simply "Lucky" that no one was below to experience "something falling from the sky".

The parasail incident was just pure luck as it crossed a busy intersection in town. I couldn't tell you what all the passers by thought.

We got the field out of town by the way. We don't need that kind of publicity.

The community about 10 miles away stopped all park flying because of unsafe flying practices.

Now, electric's are a little different as they are made to fly in small places. But as we all know and most who have been in this hobby or any other hobby where you have groups involved, someone is going to go out and do something that will draw undue attention to the hobby in general. If it's the right person, then the AMA will be getting involved to protect flying sites and justifying why the hobby should be allowed to continue.

Here are some things that I am aware of the AMA has done.

Lobbied for frequencies to be dedicated to flyer from the FCC. A Washington trip was required for that.

Lobbied for use of public lands such as closed landfills.

There is more and a great history of what the AMA has done to ensure that this hobby remains a safe and accepted hobby.

The clubs are extensions of the AMA and do the local politicing when necessary.

Sorry don't mean to get on a band wagon but we do try hard to encourage those getting into the park flying scene to get involved with a local club. If your in a spralling area and frequency conflict is not a problem then don't worry about it until something happens. But where we are we have communities on the sides of mountains and we are in a valley. Can't prove it and hope we don't have too, but some days are nothing but glitchy crash days. Usually on holidays and when school is out. In the summer that is hard to pin point. We have a R/C sailboat club not more than a stones throw from the field. We know for a fact that some do or have sailed on 72 mHz. Not out of meaness but more out of ignorance to find out what was around and what frequencies are for what R/C's.

All these issues are things that can be resolved if LHS educate their customers. That means being familiar with what is around them. And with these forums and other access to the internet one who claims the didn't know will not be an excuse.

I feel strongly about this issue as you an see. Don't want to impose my personal disciplines on anyone else, but want to make others aware. As my Daddy used to say, I can only give you the information for your backpack of life. When and how you draw on that will be up to you.

ragbag
09-04-2005, 02:45 PM
All of the above!!!

I still don't have my "wings".

I have been corrected so many times politicly and told to shut up he was trying to tell me something.

Trouble is it took a while to find the right people. They were the quite ones that you didn't notice over on the side.

I go early in the morning, being retired helps, and when they show up I pack up my stuff and go home.

I am one of the "DUFFS", the person that told me to shut up said that the home built foamy that I was flying was a Dirt Ugly Foam plane.

Some of us are now the DUFF's.

Guess after looking at it it is ugly, but I carry it to the field almost every time I go.
1229
Doesn't fly very well either.

The ones that made the remarks are singing different now. A lot of the guys are now flying electrics.

That was about three years ago. Talking about an electric flyin one day now.

By George:p

debhicks
09-04-2005, 03:53 PM
Well, I say shame on those who resist change and when ever I see others trying to do things that are new or different, I look at it as a person who is living life large and learning.

I have a gentleman who is 82 years young. I would never, ever ever discourage his willingness to learn something new.

Resistance to change? MMMMM I say try it first. :) Love to fly. Even if I don't do it well and don't take undue risks. Still have fun. Well, building right now. Gotta go. So I can go fly:) Estarter.

Slent thndr
09-05-2005, 02:39 PM
My field is relativity small, which is actually good because it doesn't attract the masses like some of the other do. Our club doesn't really meet there very much ether. I have NEVER come there to fly and had to ask someone their channel. It is still big enough to fly my XE2 and my Formosa. The really nice thing is that its a 5 min drive from my house. Just across the resivour, which is btw a great place to float fly. I know it is close to the field, but the only people who I have seen useing the field are my friends, and I know their channels. I have ever seen anyone else there exept at our clubs annual glider competition but I know when that is lol. And I dont think anyone on the club has channel 25 ether.

Geoff_Gino
09-05-2005, 03:45 PM
Hi All

The posts (good and bad) all make sense. There is nothing better than the comaradrie of sharing your achievements and mishaps with fellow club members.
At the age of 57 I started flying 6 months ago, went to the local Hobby shop bought a 40 gas trainer, asked where the club was and just turned up the Saturday morning and was overwhelmed with the welcome and assistance I received.
We all know how it goes, got hooked up with an instructor who unselfishly gave up his flying time to train me. Went solo in three weeks and got totally hooked.

Joined R/C Universe and what a pleasure to be able to gain knowledge and experienced on-line help without having to wait for the week-end. The guys at R/C Universe helped me in choosing my first warbird and of course when I read Greg Covey's review went the electric route and lo & behold up pops WattFlyer. This is by far the best club I have ever belonged to, from being the beginner in a new club the knowledge I have gained about larger scale electrics has made me the local expert and all our club members were totally amazed with my 60" Corsair.

You have got to admit the presence of other people who enjoy doing what enjoy doing only adds to the pleasure.

Geoff
Port Elizabeth
South Africa

Tommyr
09-06-2005, 02:31 AM
My local club is $94 per year and requires AMA membership. Another $58. That's $152. :eek: A little steep for a newbie flyer. I'll stick with open fields and parks.


Same situation here in my area, Club is $75, must be in AMA which is another $58 so total is $133. Just for the "privilege" of flying in "their" field which by the way you can't do alone for the first 3 months until you "prove" you're a safe/good flier. No thank you. That's rediculous IMHO. No offense to those who like clubs but they're to "clicky" and politic laden for me anyway.

I too will stick to school fields/parks when I finally take a plane out. There's a national park near me that should have a field big enough to fly in.

Tom

dregsfan
09-06-2005, 06:59 AM
I just found a sailplane and electric club field near me that's only $20.00 per year + AMA membership. That's a little more realistic, but I'll stick with the parks and alfalfa fields for now.:)

AEAJR
09-06-2005, 07:39 AM
I just found a sailplane and electric club field near me that's only $20.00 per year + AMA membership. That's a little more realistic, but I'll stick with the parks and alfalfa fields for now.:)

Man, you don't realize what a bargin going that club would be. So much knowledge, so much help, so many new friends and exposure to things about flying you probably never imagined.

Someone just offered you a bargain and you are passing it up. Too bad!

qban_flyer
09-08-2005, 06:46 AM
But remember this. Your AMA insurance coverage is no good when you are not flying at a sanctioned field or event.

On the subject of clubs, I had been a member of a local club. They pretty much insisted I get a glow plane to 'qualify' on. I joined them anyway and after nearly two years left in disgust at all the politics and grumpy old SOBs. There were at least 10 others that left about the same time I did. A few of us now fly at a local school ball field. I have to agree with Ed on most of his points made in the original post on this thread. Great post. I also agree that flying with others is a great thing. I genuinely dislike flying alone.
That particular club used to have 254 members in 2003. It is down to 119 and losing members at a rather brisk pace. Ask the LHS owner four miles from its location and he'll tell you the same thing.

There are also other clubs in the area where the chances they may lose their flying fields because of their proximity to private property and or dwelings is rather real.

Homeowners do not like to have 'old men flying their noisy toy planes' (Glow & Gas) near their neighborhoods. Then, there are some other clubs where the AMA rules are violated by members and even members of their BODs on a constant basis. Case in point: beer and R/C flying do not mix. Beer and the AMA are to each other like oil and vinegar. Alcohol consumption and flying can get the county to send a club packing quickly!

Worse, if one complained to the powers that be, in certain cases the complainant may get thrown out of the club as I almost witnessed happen in this area two months ago. Get rid of the messenger was the solution they had in mind in order to 'resolve' the drinking at the field issue (?). No, they haven't gotten rid of him yet. Guess they are afraid that by so doing they may be signing the death warrant for that particular group as the individual in question has the goods on them. I'll keep all posted of how this thing ends up.

Flying alone is not so bad if you enjoy flying. I do it all the time as I'd rather fly that way than chance being hit by a drunken pilot's plane or have his plane go through my car's windshield. Besides I don't like to be around that type of squabble.

Granted, most of us enjoy flying in the company of others because we also like to chew the fat and exchange ideas about the hobby. Not to mention the dirty jokes we tell.
And, yes you are correct again. The AMA insurance won't cover your fanny if you are flying outside an AMA sanctioned and or AMA chartered club field. AMA won't cover a club's rear end if they find out that the pilot in question was under the influence of intoxicant substances at the time of the disastrous event.

Heck, even if you are at a 'legal' field and were to have an 'accident' while in full possession of your faculties, chances are they would try and get away from paying for the damages by referring you to your homeowner's insurer first.

Yep! This is a fun hobby which counts interesting characters and situations among its idiosyncrasies. Funny isn't it? Or is it ironic?

AEAJR
09-08-2005, 11:47 AM
Heck, even if you are at a 'legal' field and were to have an 'accident' while in full possession of your faculties, chances are they would try and get away from paying for the damages by referring you to your homeowner's insurer first.




Your post is disturbing. I hope that club gets things straightened out.

BTW, your AMA insurance is secondary insurance which means that their coverage kicks in AFTER your primary coverage, which might be your homeowners. That is the proper process.

debhicks
09-08-2005, 12:26 PM
I will do some more reading today, but as a club secretary I have not read anywhere to date that AMA Insurance that you pay for does not cover you except on the club property. That is like saying the Car Insurance you pay for will not cover you unless the damage incurred is in your driveway. :(

So I will disect the insurance provisions and become more informed so my club members will know. I suppose it would also hold true that if AMA insurance won't cover you as an individual then why would your home owners insurance cover anything that happened away from the home.

I guess what I am saying is that without AMA insurance your homeowners insurance will be all you have. So make sure your home owners covers your activities. If you don't have homeowners insurance then your totally at risk. :(

Again, I will do some more studying today if the store doesn't get too busy because I was not under any impression that I was not covered when I go down to the school and do a flight demo for the kids. If that is the case then perhaps I should not do that anymore. Then promoting the hobby would be restricted to only those who found a field or saw someone out in the park flying. And that would be sad. :(

Off to study. If someone reading this has referenc paragraphs I would appreciate it. I do know there is mention in this string and will go back through and read it.

Off to work. :)

debhicks
09-08-2005, 02:44 PM
http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/memanual05.pdf

The insurance summary can be found here. For those who would like to read it. Sometimes it's hard to find this stuff. :)

qban_flyer
09-08-2005, 05:34 PM
Your post is disturbing. I hope that club gets things straightened out.

The member is in 'hot water' with the "powers that be" at that club since bringing the drinking and flying issue up to them. He's been at it with that club's BOD since February 05 without arriving to a solution of this problem. The solution a few of them suggested to the rest of the BOD was to eject the member from the club (i.e. kill the messenger for being the bearer of bad news). Unfortunately for those this man has the backing of some other members at large, and a minority of the BOD 'realizes' they truly have a problem that needs attention before the field is lost.

Beer bottles have been found at the field on many ocassions, although the field has a lockable entrance gate. This field is not one easy to find, even if you have explicit directions on how to get there. It also is one that happens to be within the confines of a public park (the Maryland Park & Planning Commision has absolute jurisdiction over the flying site).

Some members of the BOD have been observed not only drinking while at the field but also offering beer to other members. So here we have BOD members violating the AMA Rules, the AMA Safety Code and MD's Park & Planning Regulations, but to add insult to injury they are also encouraging others to do likewise.

I think that if the MD Park & Planning people, the adjacent property owners, and neighbors within reach of an out of control model in general were to get hold of this information that club's permission to use that locality will be terminated immediately. If the AMA knew these facts they may even revoke that club's charter. It is against the MD Park & Planning rules to bring alcoholic beverages to a MD public park, any and all parks without distinction just as it is against the AMA rules and regulations to consume alcohol eight hours before flying a model aircraft.

The 'neighbors' have been wishing that club gone from their midst for at least two years now.
It really is a bad situation for the rest of the membership (over 200 individuals) as they are the ones who foot the bill with their annual dues and will be the ones to suffer the consequences if the club is shut down by either the AMA, the county or Park & Planning. Talk about finding themselves in a Catch 22 situation if this came to pass!

P.S. I should also mention that this member has the backing of at least 12 to 15 club members, some of them have also found beer bottles at the field as well as having observed BOD members drinking while at the flying field.

qban_flyer
09-10-2005, 05:28 PM
I sure wish all of you so far, lived near me! Great attitudes! Nice first posts.

There is a club about 20 miles from me, and I have tried, to edge, work my way into their good graces. Not much going on within 100 miles of where I live...I have met with several local members and thought it was going great. They were going to call me back when they would be doing something! Now I know how those lonely dates felt sitting by the phone! I even went so far as to join the AMA as it was one of their regulations. Did not renew, as my local cowfield didn't require it.

Well a year has gone by, my follow up calls and emails have gone unanswered, and here I sit with 6 newly built planes and nowhere and no-one to fly with!

I do believe in groups, and I have been married (to the same woman) for nearly 30 years, but obviously the group near me is not looking for new members.

Good luck to WattFlyer, may the "Amperage" be with them!

Any thoughts and suggestions?!

Thanks ahead of time!

Too bad for them. It is their loss not yours. I have come across two clubs like that in the 37 years I've been flying R/C. Both believed their stuff didn't stink, especially that of the president of one of the clubs.

So happen that in those days I was in charge of the audio engineering and custom installation section of a large firm in the area I live in. When the "higher than thou president" found out I had 'connections' with the audio industry he became extremely friendly and accomodating in regards to the club.

My reaction toward him was just as cold as his had been toward me when I wanted to join their group and they gave me the cold shoulder. As far as the 'assistance' he needed from me with his rig? I straightened everything for him personally and made him pay through the nose in the process.

That club? I did not join as I was not in the mood to associate with those snobs. They lost the field when the land was sold eight years later and now it counts less than 30 members among their ranks. Their former gorgeous field is history and now they fly from a very confined area.

The moral of the story? No one knows what they may be missing out on by acting so stuck up. Wat those guys did to me and the ones who refused you the courtesy of a reply e-mail are the big losers.
Like I said, it's their loss because they have no clue as to what you may have been able to do for the organization as an active member.

There probably are many other clubs out there not far from you. Try and look them up by AMA District number.

Good luck

AEAJR
09-13-2005, 11:21 PM
I would like to add something to this.

Saturday I was flying a 3M sailplane in prep for a contest in two weeks. I had the plane in a GREAT thermal. She was flying wonderfully!

I was getting ready to leave the thermal and head back to the field when all of a sudden the plane literally fell from the sky. I was way up and way out.

No sooner did I anounce what had happened when 3 guys landed their planes, asked for a spot and we headed for the woods. Two hours later and no joy so I declared it a loss, but these guys were right there with me.

Later another guys suggested we go back and look again and we did. Another 2 hours but still no plane. But what great guys to come to my aid.

News spread in the club and I got e-mails asking if I was going to search again Sunday so they could come and help. These guys weren't even at the field when I crashed.

Why join a club? It is the people! That's why!

Geoff_Gino
09-14-2005, 02:02 PM
Hi Guys and especially Debbie

I do not know or even want to guess at what cost your planes are, but in my case to go and throw $300-00 into the air in un-controlled air space is looking for trouble. At the very least should someone in the vicinity switch on a Tx (may even be in his/her hooby room) you stand the chance of having your plane go down. Not to mention that while it is out of control who or what it may hit.

Debbie, I wish that I had your hobby shop in my area. I hope that your customers and fellow members realize what a sterling effort you are putting in and would like to congratulate you on your concise and thorough input you are giving members of WattFlyers. YOU GO GIRL!!

Geoff

E-Challenged
09-14-2005, 05:27 PM
Many of our beginning modelers are teenagers who rely on gifts and allowances to fund their early modelling activity. Most of us started that way. A young beginner often gets a start with an ARTF all-on-one package as a last minute gift and may not even have much interest in or time for model planes at the start. There proabably isn't a club flying field within walking or bicycle distance and car or bus transportation is not often available. So they get started flying in local schoolyards, parking lots or anywhere else. Expecting such kids to spend $58 dollars to join AMA and then pay $25 dollars or more for club membership on their own is not realistic. Understanding parents and relatives can help a young modeler financially and with transportation. Club members should try harder to welcome and help kids and older beginners, it benefit's us all.:)

debhicks
09-14-2005, 06:04 PM
Teenagers do not have to pay $58 dollars for an AMA Membership. Here is a link that may be quite helpful. http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/902.pdf
The problem with the above statement is the entire enrollment form has not been read. There are several levels of enrollment including a 3 month enrollment. I understand not wanting to read the fine print. It can be a hastle. In this case it will resolve a lot of misunderstood fables of AMA membership. I hope this is helpful information.

Go join a club and enjoy being with others that enjoy what you do and others that want to get into the hobby.

qban_flyer
09-14-2005, 06:17 PM
Many of our beginning modelers are teenagers who rely on gifts and allowances to fund their early modelling activity. Most of us started that way. A young beginner often gets a start with an ARTF all-on-one package as a last minute gift and may not even have much interest in or time for model planes at the start. There proabably isn't a club flying field within walking or bicycle distance and car or bus transportation is not often available. So they get started flying in local schoolyards, parking lots or anywhere else. Expecting such kids to spend $58 dollars to join AMA and then pay $25 dollars or more for club membership on their own is not realistic. Understanding parents and relatives can help a young modeler financially and with transportation. Club members should try harder to welcome and help kids and older beginners, it benefit's us all.:)

I give a you a Thumbs Up for your nice post!

The "kids" (I know some in their 70s) flying these under $60 models are just giving it a try to see if they like. And yes, they fly in school yards, parks & parking lots because it is convenient for them to do so.

Most club membership fees are over $50. I know not one in the DC area that are under $52, there is one here that will set you back $185 to just "join" the crowd. They assess the newcomer with a $100 initiation fee and membership dues are $85 yearly. No, I don't belong to that one, too rich for my taste!
So imagine what the average 10 to 16 year old interested in the hobby is confronted with regarding club memberships.

With kids and clubs you also have the issue of transportation to the field and back. Most kids do not have the means to do so, and having to depend on adults to drive them to the field and back is not a reasonable solution since most adults work for a living and are tired after work and or have some "honey do" chores at home during the weekends.

Regarding the post above the one I am replying to I'll say this much, these RTF electric models (up to $199USD in price) operate on either the 27MHz or 49MHz (yes 49MHz) bands and will not interfere with us, the "serious" modelers who fly on the 72MHz band. So having them turn on a TX in their neighborhood, their back yard and or nearby park won't affect anyone in the least. Not even if they were to do so next to someone flying an "expensive" model as he qualifies models selling around $300 or so.

Too bad that youngsters are not flocking to this hobby in droves. It would certainly keep them busy and most definitely out of trouble. The ones I know in the three clubs I belong to are very well behaved and extremely respectful on and off the field.

Granted that the way they are being raised has a lot to do with this fact, but the hobby also keeps them very occupied and off trouble.
Perhaps R/C flight is the solution to most of the problems that plague today's youth?
I wish more parents, grandparents and uncles would give their kids more of these under $100 RTF models regardless of where they choose to fly them. This also applies to those kids over 70.

BTW, one of those kids flying in our club has been there since the mid fifties and is still flying at the ripe young age of 84! You should see the expression on his face once he gets ready to go fly his e-powered model.

E-Challenged
09-14-2005, 09:42 PM
[quote=debhicks]Teenagers do not have to pay $58 dollars for an AMA Membership. Here is a link that may be quite helpful. http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/902.pdf
The problem with the above statement is the entire enrollment form has not been read. "

Ya know, I thought there was a reduced rate for juniors but the AMA website said flatly $58. When you get to the enrollment form, there is a reduced rate of $15 , which is much better.

debhicks
09-14-2005, 11:33 PM
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=PKZ4100

Referring to the $199 USD RTR Electrics. This is what is coming out next. So things aren't going to be so comfortable anymore.

vicman
09-15-2005, 03:53 AM
I like both clubs I belong to and the AMA. $100 total per year? I drink that while building planes in a month. Thanks. That is for the clubs I belong to and the AMA.

qban_flyer
09-15-2005, 07:04 AM
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=PKZ4100

Referring to the $199 USD RTR Electrics. This is what is coming out next. So things aren't going to be so comfortable anymore.

That Typhoon is a rather nice model. I wonder about the quality of the radio included at that price. I doubt any begineer is going to a 3D Typhoon right of the bat, especially one with a non-computer four channel radio without exponential. Not a good TX for 3D flight usage. Don't like the idea of them having these on the 72MHz band either.

What I referred to in my post was the Merlin RTF P/F (?) sold by Hobby Lobby. That thing has been around since time immemorial and it is just as bad a starting choice model today as it was five years ago.

GWS Slow Sticks are a good way to get started for a few bucks. Cheap, durable and expendable.

Geoff_Gino
09-15-2005, 08:18 AM
Hi qban

Perhaps I should have pointed out that I fly in South Africa and we (mostly) are on 35 Mhz. I know of guys that fly in a parking lot behind a large mall which does have a Hobby shop in the centre. Woe are they, one day some one will switch on a Tx.

Geoff

debhicks
09-15-2005, 03:13 PM
I would personally rather see the kids spend their money on dues, with parents educating them on the importance of organizations and responsibilities, than taking a $100 dollars to the mall and being dropped off by a well meaning friend/relative/parent to roam the mall stores all day.

Parking a kid with a group interested in this hobby would not be a bad thing. And most clubs will make allowances for younger people who don't have adult family members wanting to fly. Most clubs have family memberships as well.

Big clubs involved in the community will take the time and teach those interested young or old for that fee of ??$$.

We take our children to school and drop them off. We will pay this for that uniform, donate this for that catalog item, buy this instrument or that instrument, send them on a field trip with $100.00 and their game boys, MP3 players and Nike tennis shoes, but wobble about paying $85.00 to an organization that teaches.

Back to the heavily involved in the community, wonder how many know that the AMA offers scholarships?

If more people Young and old were more organizationally oriented then perhaps the dues could come down and the park flyer issues would be null and void. I can only speak for those whom I have personally encountered who bulk at rules and dues, they usually do not want to conform to any school of thought except their own.

That is not a bad thing as new idea's are born of independent thought, however if independent thought is only being singularly used, then new things cannot be born. I can't think of any idea, thought or single person who has accomplished anything without a little help from their friends. ;)

There is a post in this thread that points out the benefits of your $$ donated to a club. Your money goes for events, facilities, camaraderie and teaching. For those of us who have gone to college or going to college we know that education is not cheap. You go to the flying field and you have 10 people offering you their knowledge their starters, battery chargers, rubber bands, buddy box, advise, part of their lunch and play date schedules so you won't have to fly alone. Not to mention those who went out and purchased shelters and extra chairs to carry to the field to offer to those who can't, don't bring theirs.

Just a few benefits of belonging to an organization such as the Local Flying Club, AMA, Political Party organization, PTO, Homeowners association, Red Cross, Lions Club, Eastern Stars, Church, Fraternity, Union ..........

Oh look, there I go again. Kid's hated that trait in me:)

Taylorcraft_ASEL
09-15-2005, 08:30 PM
But remember this. Your AMA insurance coverage is no good when you are not flying at a sanctioned field or event.



Not exactly accurate...AMA insurance covers you as long as you have permission to fly from the site owner.

Ken

qban_flyer
09-15-2005, 08:36 PM
Hi qban

Perhaps I should have pointed out that I fly in South Africa and we (mostly) are on 35 Mhz. I know of guys that fly in a parking lot behind a large mall which does have a Hobby shop in the centre. Woe are they, one day some one will switch on a Tx.

Geoff

Hi Geoff,

Are those other planes on the same band as the big boy's models? If that's the case then you guys do really have a problem with them.

Here in the States all of the 'cheapies' are either on the 27 MHz or 49MHz bands. The rest of us fly on the HAM band (the brave ones) or the 72MHz band. As long as they keep the inexpensive ones out of our frequencies we are safe.

BadTroll413
09-16-2005, 01:12 AM
What do they men by our bands? are there certin bands set a side for certin kinds of planes?

debhicks
09-16-2005, 02:08 AM
Overseas fly 35Mhz, States fly 27Mhz and 49Mhz. 49Mhz is really toy class stuff. 27Mhz is getting a little more sofisticated, but the real threat and problem is the new 72mhz "CHEAPIES" that are going to hit the market. This is where the states are going to start having problems. The Blade is on 72Mhz, the Typhoon is coming out on 72Mhz and there is a slate of new planes coming out on 72Mhz classified as park flyers.

I call them "CHEAPIES" because they will run RTF for less than $220.00 USD.

72 Mhz park flyers are a problem and will be a growing problem. This problem will go away when we all convert over to the computer radio's that will sense the frequency is used and rotate you into another frequency. Currently not available for 72Mhz.

qban_flyer
09-16-2005, 04:25 AM
What do they men by our bands? are there certin bands set a side for certin kinds of planes?

Here in the USA 'inexpensive' RC models (under $120) are operated on both the 27MHz as well as the 49MHz bands, while the costlier models, whether RTF (charge and go) usually use the 72MHz band. All of the ones on the 27 & 49 MHz bands are considered to be toys by some, although some of them fly quite satisfactory.

The ones on the 72MHz band include electric as well as glow fuel powered models.
A visit to the Tower Hobbies (www.towerhobbies.com (http://www.towerhobbies.com)) site will open up your eyes as to what is available on these three bands on both glow and electric. You won't ever find one of the glow fueled models flying at any park because of the noise generated by their engines will atract the attention of the Police, period.

Electrics like the Typhoon are not considered 'trainer' type models, and since they are not sold with a computerized radio the thing will be rather difficult to control by an expert flyer, much less a rank amateur.

I doubt many beginners will be spending $220 on something they know will crash on the first attempt at flight.

qban_flyer
09-16-2005, 04:54 AM
What do they men by our bands? are there certin bands set a side for certin kinds of planes?

AMA insurance is secondary to your home owner's liability coverage even if you have permission from an owner to fly your models from his/her property. Only after you home owner's limits are reached will the AMA coverage kick in.

Another misconception, public parks in most states do not allow R/C flight. In some states it is against the law to fly a radio controlled aircraft from a park, school yard, baseball, football and soccer fields.

That is the way the law has been here in the Metro Washington DC area for over 20 years now. R/C flight is off limits on all of the locations listed above. If the Park or County Police catch you flying in anyone of them you'll get a 'love letter' from them in the form of a ticket accompanied by a hefty fine.

My personal opinion? I believe manufacturers of these 'park flyers' are doing a disservice to R/C modelling in general by calling their 'creations' something they are not.

Geoff_Gino
09-16-2005, 07:58 AM
Hi qban

Just like to point out that I do NOT fly with these guys - have watched a couple of times. I would hate to be there when one of their planes or heli goes through the windscreen (at best) of an expensive luxury car which may drive into the parking lot.

These guys are not members of our governing body (SAMAA equivalent to your AMA) and are not covered at all. As you have pointed out their personal liability better be up to scratch.

Further I am pleased to say I have "converted" one of them and I am taking him out to a local club on Sunday.

Geoff

AEAJR
09-16-2005, 02:36 PM
Electrics like the Typhoon are not considered 'trainer' type models, and since they are not sold with a computerized radio the thing will be rather difficult to control by an expert flyer, much less a rank amateur.

I doubt many beginners will be spending $220 on something they know will crash on the first attempt at flight.

If they knew they would crash at first attempt at flight? How would they know that?

qban_flyer
09-16-2005, 08:13 PM
Hi qban

Just like to point out that I do NOT fly with these guys - have watched a couple of times. I would hate to be there when one of their planes or heli goes through the windscreen (at best) of an expensive luxury car which may drive into the parking lot.

These guys are not members of our governing body (SAMAA equivalent to your AMA) and are not covered at all. As you have pointed out their personal liability better be up to scratch.

Further I am pleased to say I have "converted" one of them and I am taking him out to a local club on Sunday.

Geoff

Hello Geoff,

I saw a Saito powered Pilatus Porter go through the windshield of a car at one of the clubs I belong to. Not a pretty sight, but
considering that it could have been worse had there been someone in the car at the time, we were lucky that day.

Accidents are bound to happen, especially when you consider the garbage being sold as 'park flyers' by many 'manufacturers' of R/C wares.

qban_flyer
09-16-2005, 08:23 PM
If they knew they would crash at first attempt at flight? How would they know that?

Re: Typhoon RTF R/C.

No one said they are smart; but when you consider that $220 is a rather hefty investment (even in these days of expendable cash), most rank beginners wouldn't spend that kind of money on a hobby they may give up after a few attempts at R/C flight.

Anyone able to afford $220 on a RTF model can also afford AMA and club membership dues.

Retailers not referring these potential hobbyists in the correct direction are not only doing a disservice to the hobby but to the public at large in general.

It is incumbent on hobby shops to direct curious beginners to the AMA and AMA chartered clubs for proper guidance in their R/C flight learning curve.

Popjinx
09-16-2005, 08:49 PM
I do not have a large enough yard for flying and always felt at odds with someone or some real or imagined safety rule. I thought I found the perfect "free spot" large field. After landing my aerobird one day, a gentleman from the neighborhood 1/4 mile away walked up and complained that someone had crashed a glow plane into his truck a few months prior. I put my hand up and told him to say no more; he would never see me flying there again. I joined a club and have not regretted the dues since. It was there that I retired the Aerobird in pieces and started flying a brushless modified Aspire EP and love it. Our club is great. I am usually the only electric flyer there and have been embraced. I get a lot of questions about the gear and I get help whenever I need it. I used to fly in the mornings to avoid the crowds, but now I look forward to being around the other members.

AEAJR
09-17-2005, 12:09 AM
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=PKZ4100

Referring to the $199 USD RTR Electrics. This is what is coming out next. So things aren't going to be so comfortable anymore.

There are lots of 72 mhz RTF planes available and have been for years. They come in electric, glow and glider versions.

Nextstar is glow and available in many hobby stores. Tower, hobbico, Multiplex, Great Planes, and others make 72 mhz RTFs.

For example, I have a Great Planes Spirit Select sailplane - came with 72 mhz radio. Bought it two years ago. Great bird!

They are becoming more common, but they are not new. Lots of the new flyers in our club start on RTF 72 mhz and 27 mhz planes. Some have 2-3 of them and really like them. They have no interest in building kits or ARFs. Buy and fly!

rcdriver6
09-17-2005, 01:12 AM
hi fellows i have been flying model planes for about 30 years and belonged
to several clubs over this time the club i fly with mostly is in GREENSBORO
NC about 30 miles or so from my house we have clubs closer but prefer
the GRAMS club because the guys up there fly every kimd of plane there
is small or large we give each other a hard time in fun when someone dumb thumbs a plan into a tree or into the ground but you can look around
and there will be ten or twelve guys helping you retreive your plane this makes a club so much more fun than flying alone well that is my 2 sense
worth

qban_flyer
09-17-2005, 02:20 AM
I do not have a large enough yard for flying and always felt at odds with someone or some real or imagined safety rule. I thought I found the perfect "free spot" large field. After landing my aerobird one day, a gentleman from the neighborhood 1/4 mile away walked up and complained that someone had crashed a glow plane into his truck a few months prior. I put my hand up and told him to say no more; he would never see me flying there again. I joined a club and have not regretted the dues since. It was there that I retired the Aerobird in pieces and started flying a brushless modified Aspire EP and love it. Our club is great. I am usually the only electric flyer there and have been embraced. I get a lot of questions about the gear and I get help whenever I need it. I used to fly in the mornings to avoid the crowds, but now I look forward to being around the other members.

You did the right thing. The reason clubs have safety rules is for everyone's welfare while flying at their fields. Club rules prevent members who are unruly or reckless in their flying habits from injuring/killing someone or damaging property.

There are many cases on record where out of control models have maimed and or killed members. Two years ago next November 3rd in Houston, TX there was this R/C heli instructor who was decapitated by the model he was trying to assist another club member with. It was a dumb accident, control of the heli was lost resulting in instantaneous death. The news media had a field day with this incident, which was widely publicized in a most melodramatic way by all.

I live in the Washington, DC area and found out about it within hours of the incident taking place. Photos were available all over the internet. Link below will take anyone interested to the still active KHOU reportage of this incident: http://www.khou.com/news/local/houstonmetro/stories/khou031102_mh_chopperdeath.12011f8f.html

I'd be willing to bet the dealer who sold you the Aerobird didn't even mention the AMA to you, much less refer you to a nearby club. Very few dealers are concerned with safety. All they care is about selling you and everybody else a plane and to keep the money coming in.

BadTroll413
09-20-2005, 10:51 AM
Well from what I gather, 72mhz is the standard or higherend of radio tech. If that is the case most if not all technology relating to the hobby would naturally gravitate toward that. So my guess is there are no specific rules per any authority as to who flys on what. When are the new rolling code systems comming out? I am building a variation of a plane I have built a couple of times as an experiment. Maybe that is the route to take so I dont interfear with anyone else? I have seen many suggestions as to seeking out clubs and joining the AMA. The club closest to me starts at almost 300 dollars and is little over a half hour a way.after the first year..it drops 100 dollars and they do require the AMA membership also. Steep.

BadTroll413
09-20-2005, 10:51 AM
Oh....by the way....retail

BadTroll413
09-20-2005, 11:00 AM
is a very difficult life. Made even more so by the net. My family owns a retail store that deals in equestrian products and many times we have people come in and want to exchange the products they bought online from a competitor for the right size, color, and so on, They think that because its the same manufacture that it should be ok. You should see the response we get from some when we tell then they must deal with the online company and even worse...what THEIR return and refund policy is and how long it takes. There is no substitute for industry knowledge and experiance and the fact is....you get what you pay for when dealing on line. If you are lucky and can figure most things out on your own then net shop away. However when things go bad you truly learn the meaning of going it alone.

qban_flyer
09-20-2005, 05:18 PM
Well from what I gather, 72mhz is the standard or higherend of radio tech. If that is the case most if not all technology relating to the hobby would naturally gravitate toward that. So my guess is there are no specific rules per any authority as to who flys on what. When are the new rolling code systems comming out? I am building a variation of a plane I have built a couple of times as an experiment. Maybe that is the route to take so I dont interfear with anyone else? I have seen many suggestions as to seeking out clubs and joining the AMA. The club closest to me starts at almost 300 dollars and is little over a half hour a way.after the first year..it drops 100 dollars and they do require the AMA membership also. Steep.

$300 just to join? I refused to join one in this area as they wanted $100 for an "initiation" fee and $85 yearly dues. The clubs I joined are $65, $52 and $40 a year each and don't require an "initiation" fee. As a matter of principle I refused to join the "rich" one. Initiation fees are nothing more than highway robbery!

Even if I was filthy rich I would not do it. I just can't see myself throwing money away like that. That $300 club you are talking about, being one hour away is definitely too rich for most R/Cers. Especially when you consider the cost of gasoline these days.

72mHz has been the norm for quite sometime now. The earlier radios used 27mHz but when CB was the rage, the FCC alloted us a few frequencies on 72mHz. Also back in those days R/C radios used AM rather than FM as their mode of transmission and reception. HAM operators also used the ones alloted them for R/C on their band. 27mHz & 49mHz are mainly used these days for the under $120 RTF models.

No one controls what radio frequency on 72mHz you may decide to use. To operate one on the HAM band the person needs to have a HAM operator's license, though I know a few who use them and have not gotten a license. There seems to be a problem with the freuqencies alloted R/Cers on the HAM band. Too many and powerful (100 watt) repeaters are proliferating. It seems their operation interferes with those flying on that band.

Regarding your other post, hobby shops in this area have the same problem you have with equestrian equipment in your business. People come over and window shop only to get on the net and order from the online outfits at a reduced price. It's rather dishonest since the LHS is the one advising the buyer and not getting paid for their wasted time. They refuse to exchange anything bought elsewhere, be it another LHS or an online outfit, though.

2dogrc
09-20-2005, 07:31 PM
Found another reason to join a club! More ribbons to cut when flying e-combat!

debhicks
09-20-2005, 09:17 PM
http://media.putfile.com/The-Carnage9

www.putfile.com (http://www.putfile.com)

Here is another reason.

2dogrc
09-20-2005, 09:25 PM
http://media.putfile.com/The-Carnage9

www.putfile.com (http://www.putfile.com)

Here is another reason.

What are you running for planes and motors?

2dogrc

debhicks
09-20-2005, 09:35 PM
They have various types. Some have planes from NE Sailplanes and have opinions about em. Didn't really study them all that close. It was just too much fun to watch. Everyone had a blast including Bliss T. who was in attendance.

We are going to put together some of these gws zero's and use them. Plus have a whole box of combat planes we bought a few years ago that we are going to put together and use as well.

Thought you would all enjoy the fun. These kind of events should never take place unless it is in a controlled area such as a club. We had an EMT there in case anything may have happened. But all was well. This took place in Otto, NC. Didn't even know there was an Otto NC until last weekend.

The club put on a huge BBQ and we camped out and had a bon fire and night flying. It was a 1 day event that stretched into three. The joys of being an AMA member and associated with clubs, no matter where they are at. ;)

2dogrc
09-20-2005, 10:06 PM
Check out this one!
http://www.2dogrc.com/Website%20pics/2dogrc_low.wmv

2dogrc

debhicks
09-20-2005, 10:13 PM
Looks like you were all having fun.

We enjoyed ourselves and was made feel very welcome.

That is why we are members of a club and organization. It's what its all about.

AEAJR
09-20-2005, 10:23 PM
$300 just to join? I refused to join one in this area as they wanted $100 for an "initiation" fee and $85 yearly dues. The clubs I joined are $65, $52 and $40 a year each and don't require an "initiation" fee. As a matter of principle I refused to join the "rich" one. Initiation fees are nothing more than highway robbery!


I imagine that club has some pretty high expenses to deal with to charge that much for dues and fees. I think I would have walked at that rate as well.

My club is $35 per year and a one time $25 initation. However we have no property costs, no runway, not facilities of any kind. Just a big open field. The county cuts the grass a few times a year and we have a riding mower that we use to cut grass runways for Aerotowing out scale gliders.

The club has 4 sailplane winches and retrivers. That is about all we have but for our kind of flying, it is great!

debhicks
09-20-2005, 10:45 PM
The clubs we belong to have lease agreements. One pretty heafty for the field itself. We found the field and a corps group of 12 went in to get it. But we decided not to charge initiating fees to new members. Since the field with the heafty lease is in the middle of a pasture we needed to get a fence up to keep the livestock off of the run way. Love the free furtilizer, but don't like shoveling it.

Then the club went to the expense of getting a lawn mower which requires continual upkeep. We just had one donated. It took a few dollars to get it up to par to cut but that is now under control. Can't wait to see the fuel bill. We have to mow once a week and sometimes twice.

We pay someone to cut the field at the club in Asheville, so that is an expense. It all adds up. If you have a large club then the dues could come down. Especially if there aren't going to be improvements to pay for in the future.

I was a member of a club that charged $95.00 initiation fee and $65.00 a year for the privilege of flying on sod farms. Great open fields but very restrictive. However there was nothing for shelter, stands or anything. We could not improve or cut the grass so were at the mercy of the land owner. Sod owner. This club has a lot of members and are happy to fly at the big open places and the money is sitting somewhere in one persons pocket. There is nothing spent on the membership. 0 dollars. They (he) wouldn't even spring for a Christmas party for the club members.

So there are good and bad clubs. Usually it's not the club but the governing body.

Look on the AMA site and you can find the clubs that are all around you. You may be surprised as to how many are really around places you can fly.

There is good and bad sides to everything, even in the happiest moments.

BadTroll413
09-20-2005, 11:33 PM
As bad as it may sound I never pay a fee to join any association. Be it health club gun club or what ever. Being charged for the privvy of being a member seems strange to me. I usually ascribe to the Great Groucho MArx when viewing clubs.....He said, " I would never join a club that would have me as a member."

Not to sound cynical because as you have said..there are good and bad to all things. I have found many places here to fly with out trouble and I keep in mind others around so as not to disturb them. For the most part there is no one to disturb. I dont chase birds and I dont bother the wildlife. I also find flying solo to be peaceful. As most things in life it is usually the few who create the problem and the many suffer for it. However I do disagree that only clubs can run safe events. Common sense and a back bone is all it takes. Safe is a relative term, what is safe to some may not be safe to someone else or it maybe overkill. I researched one club that wants possesion of all your gear if you are not flying. Seems to me if that step needs to be taken you dont trust the people you are flying with very much.

The clip was great. Looks like alot of fun. I had my own air combat encounters a couple of times when other people decided to take over a location that basically was an open area. Actually they didnt want just the one area, they wanted all the areas I found. But that is another story and hence why I usually fly alone.

Also.....no one answered about the new radios that keep you off of in use air traffic signals. They sound like a step in the right direction.

I also have an equipment design question.....maybe this is the wrong forum for it.

qban_flyer
09-20-2005, 11:51 PM
I imagine that club has some pretty high expenses to deal with to charge that much for dues and fees. I think I would have walked at that rate as well.

My club is $35 per year and a one time $25 initation. However we have no property costs, no runway, not facilities of any kind. Just a big open field. The county cuts the grass a few times a year and we have a riding mower that we use to cut grass runways for Aerotowing out scale gliders.

The club has 4 sailplane winches and retrivers. That is about all we have but for our kind of flying, it is great!

The club I referred to in my area has no expenses to speak of. They fly from a county provided field. The paved runway was paid for by the county ($492,000 for the entire layout including a large shelter referred to by everyone as the 'pavillion'). The grass is cut by county employees, the trash is removed by (you guessed it) the county refuse removal company and the Jiffy John is provided by the county also.

One more thing. Club meetings are held at the County Office Building complex. In one of the meeting halls, complete with overhead projector and electrified 12 foot viewing screen.

While I can't talk about the club charging $300, I had no way to justify spending $185 on the club in my area, one that has no expenses to speak of.

qban_flyer
09-20-2005, 11:55 PM
Looks like you were all having fun.

We enjoyed ourselves and was made feel very welcome.

That is why we are members of a club and organization. It's what its all about.

Has anyone here watched this Slow Stick Kombat video? These planes are all stock. It is a riot to watch them, go at each other with a Slow vengeance! Mid airs are a thing of beauty!

http://www.ripnburn.rchomepage.com/SS_Combat2.wmv (http://www.ripnburn.rchomepage.com/SS_Combat2.wmv)

Tommyr
09-21-2005, 01:23 AM
Has anyone here watched this Slow Stick Kombat video? These planes are all stock. It is a riot to watch them, go at each other with a Slow vengeance! Mid airs are a thing of beauty!

http://www.ripnburn.rchomepage.com/SS_Combat2.wmv (http://www.ripnburn.rchomepage.com/SS_Combat2.wmv)


I'd like to but I get this:

"The requested URL /SS_Combat2.wmv was not found on this server."

2dogrc
09-21-2005, 01:28 AM
same here!
Slow stick combat is slowwwww We use the same motors in the flat foamies and MUCH FASTER!!!! Midairs happen, but planes are usually flying in the next heat! If not, you only lost about $5 of foam...try replacing ANYTHING on a slowstick for $5!

qban_flyer
09-21-2005, 03:19 AM
I'd like to but I get this:

"The requested URL /SS_Combat2.wmv was not found on this server."

Hi Tommyr,

My mistake. I tried to link you all directly to the section on that web page. It didn't work because it's an expired link (2003) that was featured in R/C Groups first and has been moved to its owner's website since. Here goes his main page's URL: http://www.ripnburn.rchomepage.com/

From there scroll down to "AWESOME Slow Stick Combat", click on the Combat hyperlink in red color IN THE RIGHT COLUMN and Windows Media Player will do the rest for you.

The clip is 5 minutes and 13 seconds in length and as I said above, it dates back to 2003, long before others thought about E-Combat. It's rather hilarious because of the lumbering speed at which these planes do "Combat". I just downloaded it and saved it.

These guys were doing E-Combat with Slow Sticks long before anyone else ever thought that E-Combat was a possibility, much less to think about using Slow Sticks as "fighters". The guys in that group really know how to get something as ordinary as a Slow Stick and turn a bunch of them into a club Combat event.

Can anyone fathom six or seven exactly alike "combat" planes in the air at the same time? Many of us have seen R/C Combat before, but all the models in the air were different colors, shapes, and sizes. Combat that way is easier as you can distinguish one plane from the rest in the flying crowd, not so with the Slow Sticks. They all are RED.

These guys really know how to have FUN! My hat was off to them back in '03 and still is today in '05!

Tommyr
09-21-2005, 03:36 AM
Hi Tommyr,

My mistake. I tried to link you all directly to the section on that web page. It didn't work because it's an expired link (2003) that was featured in R/C Groups first and has been moved to its owner's website since. Here goes his main page's URL: http://www.ripnburn.rchomepage.com/



Thanks! Just downloaded it and will watch it tomorrow. Time for bed here.

Tom

qban_flyer
09-21-2005, 03:58 AM
Thanks! Just downloaded it and will watch it tomorrow. Time for bed here.

Tom

You'll be LOL during the playback, especially with the sound turned up.

2dogrc
09-21-2005, 04:39 AM
I never thought about all the same color! Our planes are similar...except for my goofy Miss America one in the picture below!

qban_flyer
09-21-2005, 05:12 AM
I never thought about all the same color! Our planes are similar...except for my goofy Miss America one in the picture below!

Yeah! That's what makes it so much challenging fun.

If you watch the video you can hear a couple of the guys saying they have no clue as to which plane is theirs among the ones in the air!

AEAJR
11-03-2005, 01:50 PM
Any of you guys near Leesberg Florida? Looking for a club and a hobby store near there.

AEAJR
01-23-2006, 03:23 AM
We have about 75 members in our club. Some are pure sailplane/thermal guys. Some are pure parkflyer. Some fly e-gliders. Some fly hand launch, a couple fly free flight rubber and some a mix.

I added slope soaring as a non-club event, ( not at our field ) but something a bunch of us have come to enjoy.

Well today was just great!

9 am - two of my club buddies and I head for the local slope. On the way another club guy calls and we tell him where to meet us. Kids on an outing!!!!

We meet up with another club guy and my friend who is not in the club. We slope soar till noon and have a great time. Then the lift dropped off.

12:30 - we are back at the club field and there are 6 guys flying thermal gliders and a winch is all set and waiting for us. I bring out my thermal plane and head for the winch. The other two pull out e-gliders and the third guy prefers a hi-start. Up we all go.

At one point there were 6 sailplanes in the air and 5 were in the same thermal. It was just great! Of course I was so high with my 2M plane was getting really small, and I was high man. - 40 minutes later I land.

Then one of the free flight glider guys goes and hangs his plane in a tree. 4 of us land to go help him get it down. Mission accomplished. Back to the planes!

Now I am flying electrics and two other guys pull out electrics too and we are running around the field with 'em. This is my first flight with this plane so I am playing with trim, balance and the like.

Just before we get ready to call it a day, I pull out my discus launched glider. Three launches and one of the guys wants to throw it for me. 30 minutes later he is hooked and can't stop launching the plane. We practically had to pry it out of his hands. We are all laughing and having a great time. What a bunch of kids.

Five pm and the last of the planes are stowed. Another club member showed up 30 minutes ago just to watch. It is just the 3 of us now. It is getting frosty and the sun is going down and we don't want to leave. What a day!

Slope, 2 & 3 M sailplanes, free flight gliders, small electrics, electric sailplanes, and a discus launched glider. All in the air on the same day among a great bunch of guys.

THAT is why you want to join a club!

Rugar
01-23-2006, 06:31 AM
Great story Ed!

Geoff_Gino
01-23-2006, 07:04 AM
Hi Ed

You are exactly right and all the advantages of AMA.
Great story.

helo-watt
01-23-2006, 08:48 AM
Well guys (and girls, Deb) all that banter about clubs was really informative. There are two clubs in my area that I know of. Both are rather "clicky, and neither of them is very receptive to the thought of us electric flyers bringing our "toy airplanes" around. I went to the clubs on two occasions: Once with help for helis, and once for help with planes. I tried to join both times. Once I was met with the response, "We don't do electrics here. Come back when you have a real plane." Also, one of the clubs wanted me to endure some weird sponsor/ voting-in process after an application fee. WHAT? Thanks buddy, but no thanks. I left the days of being "allowed" into a click way back in grade school. And all this scrutiny to go on a Saturday morning and wait all day for a spot in the pattern of an over-crowded field? The clubs seem like a place where the people who had their lunch money taken from them as kids come to unleash their revenge on society. The "field" I fly in is actually the parking lot/ area of a large sports complex. I have acres of flat, short grassy area, and a huge parking lot for a runway. There are no houses for at least a mile, and because the sport is seasonal, I have this place to myself for all but two or three weekends a year. As far as knowledge and expertise is concerned, I've learned more from a few posts here than I ever did in two or three weekends of waiting on the sidelines at the clubs for someone to deem me "worthy" of a little help. The guys from the LHS here are EXCELLENT ambassadors to the hobby. I wrote in another post, that the shop allowed me to sit in front of the simulator while I tried out some 3ch planes. You can't do that anywhere. I admit, my situation is pretty good, with all that space at my disposal, and a hobby shop full of willing and most importantly CARING people. My wife went to the shop with NO knowledge whatsoever, looking for an R/C boat for me. They were able to set her up with a very nice package at a reasonable price. Having visited this store several times, they could have really taken her to the cleaners, but as with other times, service came before greed. Deb, I've purchased from you in the past and have nothing but good things to say, so internet shopping isn't bad either, as long as it's from a reputable place like yours...kudos! All in all, unless us watt-flyers get together (like the KISS Army did in the 70's) we're gonna continue to get shut out by the "elite" gas hogs. I'd love to get some sanctioned club going on this complex's property. It's a shame that legal-ese, politics, and greed have creeped their way into such a rewarding hobby.

Geoff_Gino
01-23-2006, 11:31 AM
Hi Helo-watt

Perhaps I should pitch-up at that club with my 1,4 Kilowatt Corsair and show them what a "real" airplane looks like.

Nice things said about Deb and I concur totally, nice place to do business - even over the "net"

debhicks
01-23-2006, 11:43 AM
:D Start your club! If you can get permission from the property owner and get interest from others start it. I would guess there are others in your area looking as well.;)

AEAJR
01-23-2006, 02:48 PM
"We don't do electrics here. Come back when you have a real plane."

And all this scrutiny to go on a Saturday morning and wait all day for a spot in the pattern of an over-crowded field?

The "field" I fly in is actually the parking lot/ area of a large sports complex. I'd love to get some sanctioned club going on this complex's property.

It's a shame that legal-ese, politics, and greed have creeped their way into such a rewarding hobby.

Helo-watt,

I hear your pain. I experienced it myself.

Some insights. Most clubs, whether flying, skiing, boating or the like are made up of people of like mind and interests. As such they want people in the club who are like them. They see you as different. While that seems rude, actually it should be expected, to some degree. Not an excuese, just a fact.

If the club field is that crowded, then you really don't want to join them anyway. You will never get to fly. And I have noticed that electric guys tend to spend a LOT more time in the air than glow guys, based on my visiting club fields. The glow guys seem to be forever tuning and fussing with the motors. The electric guys seem to be constantly in the air. Just an observation.

STARTING A CLUB

In many areas where the glow clubs are crowded and really don't want electrics, the electric guys started their own clubs. I belong to a sailplane club that also allows in a limited range of slow to moderate speed electrics up to 60" in wing span.

Starting a club might not be all that hard, but it does take some work. The owner of that parking lot might be willing to accomodate you if you have the backing of the AMA.

Here are a few of the basic requirements:

From the AMA Web Site.

The following MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS MUST be met in order for your group to become (or continue to be) an AMA Chartered
Club:
1) Your group MUST consist of five (5) or more current AMA members;
2) At least three (3) of the members MUST be over 19 years of age;
3) A minimum of three (3) current adult members (19 years or older) MUST be named as officers of the club, one (1) officer being Safety
Officer/Coordinator;
4) Each and every club officer MUST be a current AMA member.
5) Each and every member of the club who participates in club flying activities MUST [per the AMA Bylaws, Article III, Section
2.(b)] be an AMAmember of Junior, Senior, Open, Affiliate, or Temporary 90-day category, or is a current Model Aeronautics
Association of Canada (MAAC) member. An Affiliate or MAAC member may not be an officer of the club.
6) The majority of club activities relates to the building and flying of model aircraft, and its organizational operation is on local (such
as city, town, village, county) versus regional or national level.
7) To charter for 2005, your club must have a current set of bylaws on file that are in compliance with the AMA minimum standard.

The Chartered Club Package
http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/2005clubkit.PDF

Contact AMA about starting a club
mailto:loisp@modelaircraft.org (loisp@modelaircraft.org)

Flying Site Assistance
East - mailto:joebeshar@juno.com (joebeshar@juno.com)
West - Wes De Cou mailto:wesdecou@cox.net (wesdecou@cox.net)

Electric clubs are often much more accepted as they are much quieter than the glow guys. The planes tend to be smaller as well, so they are much less threatening. Sometimes if you agree to limit the size of the planes, Say 60 inches in wing span, the property owners may be more willing to let you use the space.

Local hobby shops are likely to be VERY supportive because club activity leads to business for them. Stop by your local hobby shop and talk to them about it. Maybe there is an electric club in your area already.

Worth a shot!

AEAJR
01-24-2006, 03:37 AM
Here is the link to the starter kit for an AMA club:
http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/2005clubkit.pdf

Sky Sharkster
01-24-2006, 04:31 AM
To Helo-Watt, I have been following this thread for a while, but didn't feel any need to post 'til now. A little history:
3 years ago I hooked up with a small group of electric flyers (I had been flying alone, which isn't much fun). The group, including the "Regulars" and the "Occasionals" numbered maybe a dozen. We flew at a large Athletic Complex, about 10 soccer fields, 2 wide, 5 long. I mentioned starting a club but a few flyers were against it- "Too much paperwork, Politics, Regulations, blah, blah". In the meantime we were getting pushed out during soccer practice, tournaments. Our chances of getting a dedicated field without some liability insurance was zero.
I wrote to the Electric columnists at Model Aviation & Quiet Flyer, describing our group and inviting area e-flyers to join us. Both magazines published my letters. Flyers came from all over metro Denver!
I persisted and got 4 others to join AMA so we could apply for a charter. The fee was $ 20.00 for the Charter and $ 40.00 for (one) field insurance rider. So we pitched in. Paperwork wasn't that bad, mainly names and AMA numbers, a few forms. We became the Rocky Mountain Electric Flyers, AMA Charter 4525, Feb, 2004. Now we have 64 members, have just entered a partnership with a very large (primarily) glow club (Arvada Associated Modelers) to use their grass field which has a great infastructure, fenced field and lots of support.
The local hobby shops were extremely helpful, they had been seeing these "starter" electrics flying out the door but didn't have a good single resource to direct them to. Once we came along it helped the shops, the new flyers and us! What a deal!
All you need are a few flyers who are willing to put in some time off the field, and the desire to get it done.
I'll bet, within a few years, some of the guys who didn't have time for you will be joining the electric club!
Good Luck!
Ron www.rmeflyers.org (http://www.rmeflyers.org)

helo-watt
01-25-2006, 01:46 AM
Wow...all this support, you guys are great! Thanks so much. I think i just may have a talk with the management at the complex and figure out exactly what they need. If it's feasible, I'll put out the word here and with some flyers at the hobby shops and see where things go. Who knows? I may be telling a similar story to Ron's soon. If the clubs were HALF as supportive as the people on this site, I'd have been a member years ago. I'm sure they will be ok with it, especially if we have AMA backing. There is already some other activity going on at some of the other lots, so they at least seem open to it.

AEAJR
01-25-2006, 02:08 AM
BEFORE you speak to the complex, understand that package. Understand the insurance. Speak to the AMA. Speak to the site team at AMA.

This way when you go visit the complex, you know what you are talking about. If you ask what they want .... clearly you don't know what you are talking about.

Then go in. They may just say yes, or they might say no, but at least you will be prepared.

If you can find an open area, undeveloped, that is a better choice.

Sky Sharkster
01-25-2006, 02:31 AM
BEFORE you speak to the complex, understand that package. Understand the insurance. Speak to the AMA. Speak to the site team at AMA.

This way when you go visit the complex, you know what you are talking about. If you ask what they want .... clearly you don't know what you are talking about.

Then go in. They may just say yes, or they might say no, but at least you will be prepared.

If you can find an open area, undeveloped, that is a better choice.

To Helo-Watt, I believe Ed's right; Email or write the AMA and get a package, let them know what you intend to do. That's what the site Committee is for. Your idea about posting at the local hobby shops is a good one. Here, the owners knew Jorge (RMEF President) and I by sight so they just said " Go see Jorge and Ron" and gave them directions. You will be getting some visits to the site or phone calls, trust me! It takes one person to stir the pot and I hereby nominate YOU!!
Once you have the details of the AMA coverage and hopefully a few other AMA members (to have enough for a charter), go see whomever you need to see to ask about a site. You may even have to fly a demo to prove how quiet the planes are. Be Prepared! If the weather's bad, bring a video. If you get an OK or even a "maybe", start the club. A half-dozen guys, the worst that can happen is you'll be out $ 10.00 each and you'll have a year to keep looking. The AMA Charter year is February to February, so time's a'wastin'!
Good Luck!
Ron

helo-watt
01-25-2006, 08:51 AM
Once again, a wealth of knowledge & info...thanks guys I appreciate it many times over. I'l do some AMA homework and then see about how much interest there is in a club (via flyers & internet). Perhaps some of the people who respond will be a bit more savvy at these things than I am. For now, I'm gonna concentrate on homing my skills at my secret site (heh heh heh) and check out the AMA. -Paul

AEAJR
01-25-2006, 03:03 PM
Post this thread on all the major boards:

Looking to form an electric club in "name of your town and state" Interested?

See if anyone responds.

Post something in all the local hobby stores. Tell the owners. They will probably be VERY happy to help you. They might even have suggestions for flying fields.

Contact the other clubs in the area, especially the one that doesn't like electrics. They would probably be glad to send you their cast offs.

But careful! You could become the most popular guy in town. :-)

Site Tips

Make sure the sites you are considering are at least 3 miles ( air miles, not road miles. ) from any other club in the area ( AMA requirement ) and try to stay away from airports.

When you talk to land owners, offer a demonstration of the types of planes you will be flying. Take something slow and VERY quiet.

Slow Stick, Slo-V, ParkZone J3Cub. Firebird, etc. GWS Pico Tiger Moth

Offer to let them fly it. Offer them a lesson. Offer free membership to the employees of the company that owns the lot. It might be the building owner rather than the company in the building. Explain that some of the planes are a bit larger and some are a bit quicker but they are all quiet and they are all electric. No fuel powered plane to be allowed. You might allow silent gliders.

Bring a copy of the AMA rules with you for their review. Bring a copy of the insurance certificate with you.

Don't go out there with fast, big hot planes and show off how wild and dangerous they are. You may find them cool, but they may find them scary. If you have a Zagi type EPP wing, bounce it off a phone pole or the like to show that there is no damage. Fly it at a moderate speed.

Just some thoughts.

helo-watt
01-26-2006, 08:58 AM
Ed, Ron, thanks again. I was parusing the AMA stuff...lots to learn there. I want to make sure that if/ when I talk to someone I know all the answers for them GREAT ADVICE on letting these guys fly a plane. I make take my old Commander out there for them to see just how docile they can be. As far as glo-power is concerned, as much as I hat to say it, they have their own clubs. I don't want to exclude anyone, I just don't want the property owners to say we went back on our word. This all may be happening sooner than expected. I've still yet to see ANYONE else flying there besides me. I drive by there to/ from work and at all hours of the day..."our own private Idaho."-Paul

r_kopka
01-26-2006, 01:23 PM
I had no problem flying "wild" (only electric). I found some places which would fit. It is easy with a Shockflyer, but not so with a 2m Hotliner. But around here there are only few fields which are not used for farming, where I can drive to and park and few neighbours which could complain. We also have an airport which outrules quite an areal.

The main reason for me was a nice landing strip as my models grew and couldn't any longer be thrown or landed on high grass.

There are no problems between electric and IC flyers here. All in all I think we are about 50:50, maybe more electric, because they are mostly smaller/cheaper/easier to handle.
Only with helis there are some problems as they are not so compatible with fixed wings at flying and landing.

RK

DickCorby
01-31-2006, 08:24 AM
Most of you guys are pretty lucky. Our club is very lucky to have a great flying field, at a price. We barely cover the Lease every year with the dues and other limited income. Our dues are $200 this year as the lease went up. But the next nearest flying field is 50 miles away, and going out only once a week, will use more than $200 over a year.

We have an active training crew, and they can take a beginner to soloing in a short time. For training, they do use glow planes and a buddy box system. But Electric is welcome, and upon joining I had to do a qualification flight which I did with my Electric.

Our group is very active, and anybody that asks for help better step aside as there will be a stampeed to get to them with assistance. I have seen guys arrive at the field with a limited amount of time to fly, and spend his entire time there assisting a beginner, and never get his plane out.

The backbone of our club happens to be us "old farts" that have been there and done that, and are willing to pass on what we have learned over many years of experience. Without these guys, there wouldn't be a hobby.

AEAJR
01-31-2006, 01:15 PM
DickCorby,

$200/yr is a lot, but sounds like you have a fantastic group of guy. So, if you look at it as $18 per month, or less than $5 per week, if you go weekly, then it isn't quite so bad.

How many members do you have? I would imagine if you have such an active training crew your membership must be huge. Lots of conflict for the pin?

helo-watt
02-04-2006, 03:30 PM
Hey guys. I was at the field this morning. Out of curiosity I measued the distance from the field to the nearest airfield. It's exactly 2.5 miles. Do you think that's too close? It's a straight shot from the end of the runway along the road to the field I fly in. I'm sure that as the crow flies it's a little firther. I'll double check with the AMA, but was wondering oif any of you knew right away.

debhicks
02-04-2006, 03:36 PM
When you say "the field" is this a club field? Is the air field your talking about an R/C field or a Full Scale Field?

27Mhz really doesn't matter for R/C unless of course someone else is flying over there, however the range is not far enought to reach. You run a far better risk of getting shot down by a passing truck driver.

If the field is a Full Scale field and the club is established they have probably already worked out an agreement or know that full scale have priority.

Again, don't worry about 27mhz. If you were flying one of the parkzone's 72 mhz stuff I would check. If it's a straight shot there is a risk. AMA is currently 3 miles but they were talking about shortening that to 1.5 miles. We are just over 3 miles from another field. Have a mountain between us but we have had no problems and have a frequency agreement. They don't fly at the other field enough to really worry about it. It's only 5 members and very private.

helo-watt
02-04-2006, 03:57 PM
Deb, thanks for the quick response. "my" field is an empty parking lot...acres of short grass, & a nice paved area for RTO's. The "airfield" is a runway..real planes...FAA stuff. -Paul

debhicks
02-04-2006, 04:01 PM
Nothing you have to worry about except to know full scale always has right of way. And if there were any complaints made you would have to cease flying. Our field is in the flight path of our major air field and we also share are space with a small municipal air field. They use our field as a training guide for new full scale pilots.

Just a note on that, they used to hold the Joe Nall in the direct flight path of the Greenville Airport in SC. Not only that it was easy to fly over a very large industrial complex. After doging full scale (during competition) and realizing that perhaps the people in the industrial complex may get a little miffed at crashing airplanes and depris on top of their buildings it was finally moved to a far less inhabited area with little or no air traffic except for the owner who flys full scale off of his manicured r/c field:)

rahtware
02-04-2006, 08:04 PM
I've been in and out of this hobby for 25 years and have at different times been a member of AMA and three different "official" clubs. I no longer belong to either.

I guess I just got tired of unbalanced fees; i.e. why do I, with my 1 1/2 lb or less slow flying electrics pay the same for AMA as the guy with the twenty pound 150 mph jet? And clubs that are made up of guys that relate to you based on how much your equipment costs.

I now fly outlaw with a few good friends and have a ball... I spend the $60 AMA fee and $150 club fee on planes / equipment. Seems to give me more bang for my buck.

AEAJR
02-04-2006, 09:29 PM
Deb, thanks for the quick response. "my" field is an empty parking lot...acres of short grass, & a nice paved area for RTO's. The "airfield" is a runway..real planes...FAA stuff. -Paul

AMA guide lines ask that you not exceed 400 feet altitude within 3 miles of an airport. Unless you are flying sailplanes, or like to thermal your parkflyer to a dot, you are not likely to exceed 400 feet in normal flying of a plane with a wing span of under 60 inches. You could, but not typically.

Geoff_Gino
02-06-2006, 07:08 AM
AMA guide lines ask that you not exceed 400 feet altitude within 3 miles of an airport. Unless you are flying sailplanes, or like to thermal your parkflyer to a dot, you are not likely to exceed 400 feet in normal flying of a plane with a wing span of under 60 inches. You could, but not typically.

Hi Ed

Don't you think 400 feet is a bit low? Flew my 60" wingspan Rainbow which is electric and a GPS inside. Flew it high enough to be a small speck and was amazed that it got to 500 meters from ground level - yes 500 meters. :eek:

helo-watt
02-06-2006, 07:25 AM
Hi all..thanks again. I'm pretty sure that I'll be staying below 400 ft. Of course, if a club does come out of this, that will all have to be hammered out one evening during a "research session" before anything is presented to the field owners. I mean, if we stick to the concept of a "park flyer" then there shouldn't be anything to worry about. Small, slow, lightweight planes don't pose the threat that a fast moving 15 pound object does. I know electrics have become bigger and faster thanks to technological advancements, but for the most part, we're still small enough to be harmless in most instances. I feel really privelaged to have such a vast amount of space to fly in considering some of the posts I've read.

DickCorby
02-06-2006, 07:43 AM
Hey guys - lets not start that BS about not joining clubs, and/or the AMA because you fly small and un-dangerous planes. I could care less about an argument that is pointless. And has been gone over and over in this forum.

What I do care about is having lost my 72 inch Yak on it's maiden flight, and then being told that there was an empty field about 2-3 miles away where some guys came out to fly big helicopters, on Sunday mornings, and on 72 MHZ of course.

Belonging to a club, and the AMA didn't protect my $1500 investment, but thats OK, I'm sure there are days when the Heli guys lose control when we are flying at our field, protected by the insurance, abiding to the frequency control rules, and trying to help each other have a good time. Which is what this hobby is suppsed to be all about.

AEAJR
02-06-2006, 10:01 AM
Hi Ed

Don't you think 400 feet is a bit low? Flew my 60" wingspan Rainbow which is electric and a GPS inside. Flew it high enough to be a small speck and was amazed that it got to 500 meters from ground level - yes 500 meters. :eek:

No I don't. Under all circumstances planes with people in them have to take priority over planes we play with. ;)

If you are within 3 miles of an airport going over 400 feet could put you in the path of a full scale plane placing lives and property at risk.

I don't care how high you can fly your plane, keep the altitude low near airports.

Geoff_Gino
02-06-2006, 02:39 PM
No I don't. Under all circumstances planes with people in them have to take priority over planes we play with. ;)

If you are within 3 miles of an airport going over 400 feet could put you in the path of a full scale plane placing lives and property at risk.

I don't care how high you can fly your plane, keep the altitude low near airports.

Like the man said earlier - lets not go there.

PLEASE read this post

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4020

before jumping all over me. I only made a comment that I thought the altitude of 400 feet was a little low and nothing about flying at a height where my plane is a little spec in the sky. I do like to see my planes in flight and not have to guess as to their attitude.

AEAJR
02-06-2006, 03:07 PM
Geoff,

Sorry if I came on a bit strong. The topic is a sensative one and I can see no room for compromise where people carrying planes are involved.

Technically the FAA asks that our planes not exceed 400 feet ever, anywhere in the country. However this is more of an advisory request rather than a regulatory mandate.

AMA has chosen to interpert this as applying within 3 miles of airports. So, for that zone, I am very strong on my support of that ceiling.

Geoff_Gino
02-06-2006, 03:16 PM
Geoff,

Sorry if I came on a bit strong. The topic is a sensative one and I can see no room for compromise where people carrying planes are involved.

Technically the FAA asks that our planes not exceed 400 feet ever, anywhere in the country. However this is more of an advisory request rather than a regulatory mandate.

AMA has chosen to interpert this as applying within 3 miles of airports. So, for that zone, I am very strong on my support of that ceiling.

Hi Ed

Thanks for the response and the PM and I do accept.

I would like to perhaps explain here why I feel as strongly as you do (and this is apparent). Our club is situated on very long finals (about 8 Kms away) for a local flying club which operates mainly Micro Lights and Gliders with the occassional 2 and 4 seater planes.

The micro lights are guilty of low flying over our registered field and seem to take delight in chasing all of us back to the pits until they become bored and go away. We as club members are obeying our association rules by making sure we are not even in the air and yet they flaunt every rule in the book.

I often wonder if they realise what damage and consequence there will be if an accident does happen.

AEAJR
02-06-2006, 05:47 PM
If you have a working relationship with the ultra lite club, I would contact them and ask that this behavior stop. If they continue, I would photograph the incidents and contact the FAA about this dangerous behavior.

Such behavior is not consistent with safe piloting and should not be tolerated.

I am not a rat or someone trying to get others in trouble, but this borders on criminal.

If I see a guy doing 70 in a 55, I don't necessarily do anything about it. If I see a guy doing 60 in a 55, weaving in and out of cars and creating a danger to one and all, I dial 911 and report it for my sake and the sake of others on the road.

None of this has anything to do with height limits around airports, but I can see you have a problem. I am just offering a suggested approach to fixing it.

Starmoon
02-06-2006, 11:44 PM
Heres a question....I have a Firebird FF on order, and I"m wondering if clubs accept RTF planes????

AEAJR
02-06-2006, 11:49 PM
Firebird FF???

RTF planes? Depends on the club.

Our club has lots of RTF flyers. I would imagine that most clubs will accept RTFs.

Some have restrictions on what kinds of planes they fly, or that are allowed on their field.

Our club doesn't accept glow or gas planes. And non-glider electrics have to be under 60" wing span and typically under 12 oz wing loadings. This is based on the property owner's restrictions. We either comply or we lose the field.

Your Firebird would be welcome at our field. We would not recommend it as a first plane, but you could join. We have had Firebirds, fighterbirds, Commanders, Aerobirds, T-Hawks, Easy Stars, and lots of other RTFs.

Starmoon
02-07-2006, 12:02 AM
Sorry...should have said Firebird Freedom. Thanks for the info..I hope my Canadian club accepts them..

rahtware
02-07-2006, 01:50 AM
... and trying to help each other have a good time. Which is what this hobby is suppsed to be all about.

Isn’t that what I said??? :confused:

As far as the other “junk” (in lieu of the actual word I wanted to use) don't project your biases on my situation until we sit down over a cup-O-Joe and go over my actual circumstances.

I guess the fact that the closest "official" club to me is over an hour away should alleviate your worries about me interfering with guys who, you imply have more right to fly then I because they, have paid their dues... And that if the AMA pulled its head out of its.... rule book, it would notice that there is a whole segment of this hobby that is being under represented.

I would love to join back up with the AMA... and maybe even with a club, but I refuse to subsidize other guys because they choose to put something in the air that has potential for great danger (thus raising the cost of insurance for me) and, I refuse to belong to clubs that judge the members by the size of their.... plane!

OBTW, if this isn't the place to "go over" this then why post on the open forum instead of contacting me privately?????:confused:

debhicks
02-07-2006, 02:22 AM
The AMA covers all aspects of the hobby. There are certain restrictions concerning some airplanes that usually involve highly technical skills to fly such as jets that are powered by very expensive motors and require a demonstrated skill to be covered insurance wise.

The cost of your hobby or model is not the issue. It never has been. The location of where you fly is not the issue. It is not the AMA that requires certain things for coverage. The AMA is simply an insurance policy for you, not a club, to ensure that if anything happens that you are covered.

Of course when you entered into you contract with your insurance company you have certain exculsions. Those exclusions are not ever talked about until they effect you personally.

Joining a club is not based on the equipment but the club and what it has to offer. Whoever started that we shouldn't have to be a club member because our plane didn't cost what the other cost is well I don't know. I personally don't think that that is an argument for not complying to rules or protecting yourself from Mrs or Mr. Jo Blow who sues you for little Anny losing an eye or Rover killed by a projectile flying through the air.

Those who think differently don't identify themselves in their equipment and walk away if something goes awry.

That is as simple as I know how to put it. In a society that wants something for nothing. Expecting others to take up the slack that they are not willing to take up themselves.

Makes those that do take up thier own slack wonder why they go through all the trouble.

Peace Said, had to vent.

Don Sims
02-07-2006, 03:26 AM
Larry,
I was anti AMA for the first several years of flying that I did. We live in a totally rural area, and I felt it was a total waste of money paying the AMA to fly. I've got my own runway, fly over my own land, am surrounded by several thousand acres of farm land, and had no need for insurance. Then I made two discoveries. one was Flyins, the other was when I traveled if I wanted to fly, I needed an AMA card at most any field that I asked to fly at as well as several city parks.

The AMA is really trying to cater to the death to slimers crowd. I wish they would have a no mag membership option but the past year has had several excellent article in the AMA mag on lectrics.

Just my duex centavos....

rahtware
02-07-2006, 05:51 AM
Larry,
I was anti AMA for the first several years of flying that I did. We live in a totally rural area, and I felt it was a total waste of money paying the AMA to fly. I've got my own runway, fly over my own land, am surrounded by several thousand acres of farm land, and had no need for insurance. Then I made two discoveries. one was Flyins, the other was when I traveled if I wanted to fly, I needed an AMA card at most any field that I asked to fly at as well as several city parks.

The AMA is really trying to cater to the death to slimers crowd. I wish they would have a no mag membership option but the past year has had several excellent article in the AMA mag on lectrics.

Just my duex centavos....
That suggestion has been made from before I joined in the 80s... And actually, I like the Mag. My problem is with, as you mentioned, the AMA/fuel “friendship.” And it just isn't fuelies, but the BIIIIIIIGG ARF fuelies.

Debbie, I'm not talking about the big jets as that group of fliers still has a high percentage of guys that are responsible... My problem is more with the guys that show up at the field with the giant RTF, 1/3 scale, multi thousand dollar, but no time or talent invested, first time flying RUDDY beginner... Or worse yet the same guy after he learns to actually fly the darn thing (or forth one) and then “knows more then”, anyone with less of a plane… and treats them as less of a flyer/person!

Heck, I almost got run over by a C-Eagle, with a chain saw in the nose… that was being flown, by a rank beginner… and the club “AMA” instructor! And, they (and the rest of the big plane flyers) were more worried about the darn plane then those of us who had to jump out of the way… and the car that it hit! So, yes I would rather fly my 10 oz Pico T-Moth in a school yard after hours then put up with all the garbage that has become “organized” RC.

Geoff_Gino
02-07-2006, 06:37 AM
Another 2 cents worth.

Count yourselves lucky, those of you who belong to the AMA. From what I can gather, and I stand corrected, if you are a AMA member it would seem that your insurance covers you for Public Liability no matter where you fly.

Not so in South Africa. You need to be a fully paid up member, flying from a registered field, belong to a registered club and have a certificate of compentency from the controlling authority, namely SAMAA which costs us about $70-00 per year.

AEAJR
02-07-2006, 02:16 PM
That suggestion has been made from before I joined in the 80s... And actually, I like the Mag. My problem is with, as you mentioned, the AMA/fuel “friendship.” And it just isn't fuelies, but the BIIIIIIIGG ARF fuelies.


I must belong to a different AMA. I have only been flying for 3 years so maybe it was different WAY BACK THEN!

The magazine is chock full of articles on electrics. My club doesn't even fly fuel planes. There are several Electric clubs in my area that "allow" fuel and some that are only electric.

It seems that many people confuse the attituedes of the local club with the attitudes of the AMA as a whole. Local clubs are the front line arm of the AMA, but like any other association, each club has its own character.

If you don't like the clubs in your area, start your own. It is actually quite easy.

However I understand that clubs are not for everyone.

skiman762
02-16-2006, 01:35 AM
[quote=helo-watt;39437]Well guys (and girls, Deb) all that banter about clubs was really informative. There are two clubs in my area that I know of. Both are rather "clicky, and neither of them is very receptive to the thought of us electric flyers bringing our "toy airplanes" around. I went to the clubs on two occasions: Once with help for helis, and once for help with planes. I tried to join both times. Once I was met with the response, "We don't do electrics here. Come back when you have a real plane."


real plane?
http://www.farfromglory.com/b52.htm

Tell them
I would but you'll need a bigger runway..................

debhicks
02-16-2006, 01:52 AM
I am not sure where you live or how much flat ideal spots you may have but I would go find a spot and start my own club. This is one thing I can guarentee....... the entire club does not feel that way and there are probably some there that wish other would just "get over it" and progress.

That mentality is well outdated. Especially with motors that perform every bit as good as any of the glow out there. I will and would put up an E-Flite 46 against a ThunderTiger Pro 46 same plane and test the theory. I think, if it's predominatly a male club, you will find that noise is what make young people happy and old people cranky. :)

At least that is the case around here. And the older I get the more I appreciate that. :)

I'm bad. But if I can fly my electric on Sunday's without complaint, performing as well or perhaps even better than my counterpart glow sitting waiting until 1 pm to start up them I will be the one smiling.

Of course my opinion has gotten me into a lot of trouble but I usually don't back down to trouble.

Progress or be left behind. Clubs that prescribe to glow only will be left behind. The increasing cost of fuel and shipping will start to eat away at those and when the battery cost start to come down for reliable batteries then so will the electric acceptance grow. It's checks and balances.

Whew. Vented. Sorry.

It's sad when your in such a diversified hobby and you have such close minded people.

Don't let it stop you. Build your own club and you will be absolutly amazed at the response you will get. Human Nature needs companionship and commradry. Clubs and common interests are how we fullfill that need.

skiman762
02-16-2006, 04:17 AM
Bravo well said.....

locolobot
02-16-2006, 04:28 AM
Well some people are narrow minded no matter what kind of sport you are into. It seems that the farther north you go the colder the shoulder you get turned in your direction. Guess it goes with the teritory. So start your own club where you fly. I am sure that there are others near you that are having the same problem. Mine is somewhat reversed. I have been flying glow power for several years and now coverting some of my planes to electric. My problem is at my age I seem to have a disconnect between mind and fingers. I cannot get the throw of the planes down and then get to the throttle in time to keep the smaller ones flying. So I have started with the 40 size glow planes I own and am converting them to electric. Eventually i will get the 1/4 scales done also. Planes are a lot quieter and I like no longer using the greasy kids stuff. :)

rclark
02-23-2006, 09:39 PM
Why join a club?

My Reasons :

#1 Fly anytime of the day on any day of the week.... I remember the first days when trying to find a place to fly after work with soccer in action :rolleyes: and then working around sprinkler systems in the early mornings :o .... Or here comes a car, or whoops, someone is strolling in your flight area .... Club flying has the park flying scene beat (does depend on the club though)!

#2 No obstructions in sight. No trees, houses, fences, power poles, etc.

#3 Frequency control in operation.

#4 Help is available as well as a nice bunch of guys and gals.

#5 Area set aside for really small flyers and Heli and 3D type flying. Otherwise your free to mix it up with the glow flyers.

BTW, our club doesn't care 'what' you fly or what it's powered by. Even rockets are welcome during non flying times... We enjoy them all... Just come out and fly. For the first timers who bring say a firebird out for the first time, we help him with it, get 'em flying . No questions asked. Explain the rules to him of course. None of this "Sorry, you can't fly cause you don't have AMA" ... Of course if the person keeps coming out we incourage him to join AMA and the club, as AMA is required by the property owners to really fly out here, but for the small electrics we are a bit lienent in the beginning! Why discourge that first time pilot! Only $25 per year ($35 for me as I have 3 kids) . AMA is only $58 + $3 ($1 per kid) for my family. Not bad at all in my mind. Thinking about joining the 'Y' at $58 per MONTH in comparison....

crxmanpat
04-26-2006, 01:25 AM
Hello guys and gals!

Wow, I found this thread in my search for build tips for a GWS Tiger Moth. After the wonderful read, I felt I had to add my current experience.

The day after Christmas (yes, just 4 short months ago) I bought a Firebird Commander II. I had seen some parkflyers at the park near my house, so I figured I'd join the electric revolution and get back into R/C after a 20 year absence. My hanger now consists of 11 planes!

So I discovered that there was a small group of "regulars" who showed up at this park every weekend. Pretty soon I started flying with them on a regular basis too. Well, the revolution is in full swing, because it seems we gain a new flyer every weekend. There are now over 20 "regulars" who show up every weekend, with about another 10 who are only occassional flyers.

As you can imagine, that many flyers operating at an uncontrolled location was starting to get a little dangerous. Forget about frequency control, our biggest problem is not having a secure flight line. Not to mention those of us (myself included) who bring our kids with us once in a while.

So, over the past several weeks, we have been getting ourselves organized into an AMA chartered club. We should be submitting our final paperwork to the AMA next week. We are also very fortunate to have Wes De Cou living in the Phoenix area. Wes is the western flying site assistance rep, and has gotten us going in the right direction for this club. He will also be assisting us in securing a dedicated flying site.

We are the Arizona WingNutz (www.azwingnutz.org (http://www.azwingnutz.org)), and we are an electric only club. There are plenty of clubs around that cater to slimers and gliders, so nobody here is missing out. We are working with the city government to acquire some park land for our use as a dedicated flying site, completed with paved runway and covered pavillion.

It will be nice having a controlled flightline, frequency control and AMA insurance. Not to mention a site that we do not have to share with soccer/football/baseball/cricket players or sprinkler systems. The response from the "regulars" for starting this club was overwhelming.

We plan on working with the LHS's (there are about 7 on this side of town alone) by having them point new flyers in our direction for assistance if they want it. Our club will be more fun than formal, we will not require attendance at monthly meetings, we have our own web forum, and the guys are all amicable people. Our dues are only $20 with no initiation fee, but we do require AMA membership.

I have enjoyed the occasion flying session when I was alone at the park. Especially if I am trying to trim out a new plane, or just need open airspace to throw my P-51 around in. But I must say that I enjoy flying with the gang much more. I have gained wisdom and knowledge much faster from the "old timers" than I could have by going it alone. I am so looking forward to getting this club off the ground! So much so that they named me President because of my enthusiasm! :p

pilotpete2
04-26-2006, 01:48 AM
Ed,
Sounds like you belong to the same AMA I do;), they are really trying, but there is so much to cover.

RClark,
Your clubs sound a bit like mine, the dues, 20 bucks, the benefits, priceless:)
Regards,
Pete
AMA 305002

DickCorby
04-26-2006, 02:38 AM
The only drawback to joining a club like the AMA is The Price. You can buy another plane for that kind of money. And fly free!

The AMA is researching having a Park Flyer Rate for those that don't want to pay for full membership.

AEAJR
04-26-2006, 04:49 AM
crxmanpat (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/member.php?u=6149) vbmenu_register("postmenu_65953", true);

Great story! Good luck with the new club!

bsoder
04-26-2006, 05:46 AM
I am so looking forward to getting this club off the ground! So much so that they named me President because of my enthusiasm! :p
And cause noone else was dumb enough... er... "enthusiastic enough" to do it. ;)

As Pat said, our reasons for forming the AZ WingNutz are primarily safety, liability protection, and for fun. There's something to be said for simply being a part of something like this - some people may think that's not really a good reason, but it's certainly valid for me.

Brian

edited to add: just read the first couple posts in this thread... now I have to read the rest of it. There goes tomorrow's productivity... :)

Jim901
04-26-2006, 05:49 AM
I just clicked to the end of this thread and apologize if I missed this, but what does the AMA insurance cover beyond your own liabillity insurance? I'm a newbie, just asking? Thanks , jim

crxmanpat
04-26-2006, 06:54 AM
And cause noone else was dumb enough... er... "enthusiastic enough" to do it. ;)
Brian
Thank you Mr Secretary :rolleyes:

Jim, depending on where you are flying, the AMA liability insurance will either be primary (usually in the case of flying at an AMA sanctioned field), or secondary (flying at a public park for example, and it would be secondary to other insurance, such as homeowners).

If you go back in the thread, Debbie Hicks (debhicks) provided some good links to the AMA pages dealing with insurance. I guess what it boils down to is it's better to have too much coverage than not enough. And $58 a year is a pretty cheap insurance policy if you ask me.

bsoder
04-26-2006, 04:13 PM
Thank you Mr Secretary :rolleyes:

Hey, that's Mr. Secretary & Treasurer to you, bub. :)

Jim, depending on where you are flying, the AMA liability insurance will either be primary (usually in the case of flying at an AMA sanctioned field), or secondary (flying at a public park for example, and it would be secondary to other insurance, such as homeowners).

I've heard that some homeowners insurance won't cover an RC accident. Don't know how true that is tho.

Matt Kirsch
04-26-2006, 07:10 PM
Depends on the policy. Some people have claimed that their homeowner's doesn't cover R/C activities off-premises. I don't think mine does from reading the policy.

AMA insurance is ALWAYS secondary to any other insurance you may have that covers R/C activities. That's why AMA membership isn't $100 a year, or more.

jimw1956
05-29-2006, 04:45 AM
I jumped into this hobby like many I would guess... caught the bug and bought an RTF Firebird Freedom. Promptly put it up 35 feet in a tree. It took 5 days and about a dozen trips through the woods just to find it, and another half day to retrieve it from the tree. Luckily, no rain during that time. After this I decided to : 1. Get a slower plane to train with, (acquired a Slo-V and we are getting along quite well)...the Freedom is safely in it's box, waiting for my skills to improve enough to be comfortable with 30 mph or so speeds. 2. Find a bigger place to fly, and 3. Get some help. Step 3 should have been first.

I was introduced to our local club by a friend who had mentioned he was an RC flyer to me on an earlier occasion. The first Sunday I went out to the local field to watch, one of the guys hooked up a buddy box and let me fly his nitro trainer...I had never met this guy before in my life. So far they have all been extremely nice, trying to help in any way possible, even though most of them fly big, gas planes. They don't seem to have any problems with RTF's, even the 27 mhz. variety. They have a pretty good size field leased, and for a measly $50 a year I have access to it any time I want to go out and fly.

They do require AMA membership, but I don't have a problem with this requirement. The insurance is a good deal, and you get the magazine sub as well. I would strongly recommend checking into a local club when you get started in this hobby, if you are at all serious about it.

AEAJR
05-29-2006, 05:36 AM
jimw1956, that is a great story with a happy result. Thanks for sharing it.

DickCorby
05-29-2006, 05:39 AM
Sure are a lot of good things in this thread. But the bottom line as I see it is that Electric Fliers seem to feel locked out of the hobby to some extent. And the AMA is in the process of working this.

But even more importantly, the advances in the Electric equipment over the past couple of years is creating an atmosphere where the guys that felt only big Gassers were the way to fly, are looking seriously at electric and its advantages.

Chip Hyde went to the internationals a few months ago, and from what I read took only electric planes.

Electric flying is becoming more popular all the time. One of the guys at our club is selling all his gas planes - 6 planes, 40 and 60 size - and converting completely to electric. More and more guys are showing up at our club field flying electric. Gassers will be around for some time yet, but electric is taking a big step toward replacing them. And as more Wet flyers find the value in electric flying, the fewer gassers we'll have to duck.

AEAJR
05-30-2006, 03:57 AM
Electrics do seem to be taking over anything under 4 pounds and are starting to make a serious dent up to about 10 pounds. After that they can be pretty expensive.

And more and more clubs are welcoming electric flyers, which is good!

Grasshopper
05-30-2006, 04:24 AM
Finally, the wind died down for a couple of hours this afternoon and I got to fly. While I had my P-47 up, I was thinking to myself "Man I love this electric stuff". It's great! There are 2 clubs within 12 miles of me and I used to be a member of both several years back when I was flying gassers. I haven't re-joined either because I have a very large high school practice field 3 blocks from my house and I can be there in less than 2 minutes. I have another 15 acre field at a local university only 5 minutes from my house and there is rarely anyone at either of these. I do miss the social aspect of the clubs and both clubs in the area have a lot of great guys but unfortunately, they are primarily gas planes. Nothing negative here as both clubs have invited me to come fly my electrics. It's just that the local fields I fly at are so convienient that I can't make myself spend the extra time driving when I can be flying. Also, if I had to go to the club, I would not have gotten to fly today. With my electrics, I can have them in the car and at the field within 5 minutes.

DickCorby
05-30-2006, 04:28 AM
Electrics are a bit expensive to some extent. Especially when you are first starting out. But once you have your collection of necessary items, the overall day to day expense seems to be lower.

Li-Po's if you take care of them are good for a couple of years, and estimated 600 cycles on the better ones. That's a lot of 8-10 ounce fills of Glow fuel. I have some that I'm still using after 2 years. Cant tell you how many flights, but on 2-3 different planes and still going strong. 3S=2p 2100 MAH packs that I spent $45.00 on when purchased. Thats a pretty cheap investment, when you consider that $45 will buy about 2 gallons of fuel which can easily be burned up in a month of good flying weather.

In all threads just about, you see the statement that going electric is expensive, and I find new people at the field are swayed by that and ignore electric. But go out and spend in the range of $1000 to get all setup with a radio, engine, plane and the support items.

You can buy a Superstar EP RTF for $139.00, convert it to brushless for less than $150 with a good motor and speed control, buy 4 LiPo packs for about $200 (and that over a period of months) and a charger for another $60.00. Looks to me that you will spend less, and be in the air sooner with this method and cheaper to boot.

locolobot
05-30-2006, 02:06 PM
There seems to be a lot of people that think you have to be either electric or gas. Frankly I pefer being both. I can enjoy the fellowship of my local club with either of the planes and I can carry small electrics in my car wherever I go. So if I show up at the field or cannot go that day I can enjoy flying. If I am in the mood I can get the glow planes and enjoy them and the fellowship also. I feel comfortable with the insurance that is provided with the membership of AMA no matter where I fly. I think it is a necessary thing to have since I am sure most of us could not afford being sued over an accident without it. I think a combination of glow and electric is the best fo both worlds.

AEAJR
05-30-2006, 02:41 PM
Our field is electric and gilder because the landowner won't allow glow, but I would probably be flying all three if I could. Why not?

The glow clubs in the area are all taking electrics now. Some of the long time glow guys are even flying electric RTFs like the Stryker. These are the same guys that laughed at me 3 years ago when I showed up with my aerobird.

With all the electric articles in Model Aviation and the other hobby magazines, I guess it is hard not to give it a try.

debhicks
05-30-2006, 04:42 PM
Well you know me piping in. I don't think that (trying to use a big word here) separating (there, I think I can spell that one) the different modes of power is the way to go. It's that separation that causes strife about who has to do what. This way all follow the same rules. And I should like to include Heli's as well. Not sure why it is us and them mentality as we are all flyers. Period. We are all out there to have a safe and fun time and learn, fly and experience new avenues to our hobby.

What is cool is seeing the eyes of a child light up at the sight of a micro heli doing manuvers or a 40 percenter practicing for thier next IMAA event. Almost as good as living across the runway of an active duty military base. Get an airshow every day:) Now that is noise.

My guess is that some clubs who have a set in thier ways mentality, haven't had enough exposure to all aspects. Maybe they don't want to. And perhaps its that cold shoulder that turns off the other flyer and they turn away. It may be a matter of interpersonal relations and open communication. Because some of the most enthusiastic electric flyers I know today fly 40 percent gas or their 60 size glow and have their parkflyers as backup so they can have upclose fun:) Now that is diversity. And yes alot of them also have their micro electric heli too. And more and more of them are on the DX6 system.

The bottom line is this, we all like to fly, we should all practice good neighbor habits and if we can then a fun day at the field with your friends may just end up with grilling at the end of day. No better way to end the day. Then with night flying getting more and more popular because of electrics perhaps after dinner the lights will light up the sky and wow the neighborhood. :) It can be like having a 4th of July weekend every weekend if we could all get along.

None of that would be any fun if you were doing it by yourself all the time. That's what friends are for. (sounds like a song) That is what clubs are all about as well. Dues and insurance are just neccessary evils of our society because things aren't free and liability is always an issue.

I sincerely hope that this year will be the best year for all in flying arena, no matter what method you prefer to get your imagination off of the ground. Just do is safely and be a good neighbor and all will be good with the world. :) It can be just that easy.

AEAJR
07-29-2006, 11:24 AM
Organized Events - Another reason to join a club

Clubs often orgainze contests or fun fly events. Ours hosts sailplane competions of several types.

In addition to creating an opportunity to hone your skills and to learn from better flyers, they create an atmosphere of excitement.

All of a sudden, the club members are getting into discus launched gliders. Why? Well a few members tried them. Then they seemed to be having fun so others tried them. Next thing you know we are hosting a regional competition. Now more people are getting into it. So much fun!

We host regional unlimited sailplane competitions with the Eastern Soaring League. Many flyers, including myself, who would have been content to just float around with our Spirits and Gentle Ladies, have learned that there is so much more, if you are interested.

No one is under pressue to compete, but all are invited and there are many club members who will help a nervous newbie to give the competitions a try. Some like it and some don't, but unless you are exposed to the events, you don't have an opportunity to discover another aspect of flying that could richen the experience.

I hope someone will start to organize electric events too. I tried once, about 3 years ago, but no one joined in. Maybe I will give it a try again in the near future.

Organized events, another reason to join a club. :)

bsoder
07-29-2006, 04:06 PM
We did a slow stick event last weekend - spot landings, limbo, pylon racing, and combat. :) We had a really good time with it, it was a lot of fun (especially the combat. :) )

AEAJR
07-31-2006, 04:55 AM
One of the other local clubs has a one design contest around the Easy Star. Everyone has one now.

airmail wf
07-31-2006, 09:17 AM
There seems to be a lot of people that think you have to be either electric or gas. Frankly I pefer being both. I can enjoy the fellowship of my local club with either of the planes and I can carry small electrics in my car wherever I go. So if I show up at the field or cannot go that day I can enjoy flying. If I am in the mood I can get the glow planes and enjoy them and the fellowship also. I feel comfortable with the insurance that is provided with the membership of AMA no matter where I fly. I think it is a necessary thing to have since I am sure most of us could not afford being sued over an accident without it. I think a combination of glow and electric is the best fo both worlds.

Here,Here. It's as if I wrote this post. I fly both and have no intention of giving up either. There both a ton of fun. Sure you electric guys can fly while I'm cleaning my slime but I can fly while you're charging. But since I have both who cares. There is room for every aspect of this hobby, so enjoy. I also enjoy flying by myself at the local park and 25 miles away at my club with my friends. :D

bry2254
08-06-2006, 02:15 AM
I sure wish all of you so far, lived near me! Great attitudes! Nice first posts.

There is a club about 20 miles from me, and I have tried, to edge, work my way into their good graces. Not much going on within 100 miles of where I live...I have met with several local members and thought it was going great. They were going to call me back when they would be doing something! Now I know how those lonely dates felt sitting by the phone! I even went so far as to join the AMA as it was one of their regulations. Did not renew, as my local cowfield didn't require it.

Well a year has gone by, my follow up calls and emails have gone unanswered, and here I sit with 6 newly built planes and nowhere and no-one to fly with!

I do believe in groups, and I have been married (to the same woman) for nearly 30 years, but obviously the group near me is not looking for new members.

Good luck to WattFlyer, may the "Amperage" be with them!

Any thoughts and suggestions?!

Thanks ahead of time!
I am in the same boat, as per say, I will keep flying alone!

bry2254
08-06-2006, 02:17 AM
The only drawback to joining a club like the AMA is The Price. You can buy another plane for that kind of money. And fly free!
here here, not a ama member

stevecooper
09-19-2006, 06:04 AM
Our club shut down(tree farmer) many years back and after fly'in alone (I got my own field almost a mile by 1/2 mile hayfield for a backyard,)I started my own club of naber'hood kids, I call em the MULLET MAURODERS and now fly'ins fun again, snag a couple of kids and take em with, we got 8 year olds do'in inelmans ( and some stuff I would'nt try on a bet) kids are who'll be tak'in over the sport anyway!! lets help em along, ya'll bub, steve PS here's some of our squadron on task!! keep'in the sky's safe from mullet attack!!!

AEAJR
09-19-2006, 10:25 AM
What great photos.

I saw some HobbyZone planes. Do you have them flying combat, or running precision bomb drop contests?

What fun it must be to be flying with a bunch of kids. Great way to stay young.

Twister
09-19-2006, 03:02 PM
AEAJR, I noticed that the link to where to find clubs in first post is broken.

Great post and info! The closest club to me is about 20 miles. It might be time to start one in my town (though I have seen no one flying RC planes).

rahtware
09-19-2006, 03:45 PM
Our club shut down(tree farmer) many years back and after fly'in alone (I got my own field almost a mile by 1/2 mile hayfield for a backyard,)I started my own club of naber'hood kids, I call em the MULLET MAURODERS and now fly'ins fun again, snag a couple of kids and take em with, we got 8 year olds do'in inelmans ( and some stuff I would'nt try on a bet) kids are who'll be tak'in over the sport anyway!! lets help em along, ya'll bub, steve PS here's some of our squadron on task!! keep'in the sky's safe from mullet attack!!!

Steve

I did the same thing about 20 years ago with small control-line planes. The kids had a blast and so did I.

For planes, I bought a simple kit and some balsa and we used the kit parts for patterns. Each kid built their own plane (some with a lot of help) and painted them with spray paint (OK with nitro as long as it cures a couple of weeks).

For engines I called COX (not Estes at the time) and they sent me a bag of returned engines for free... All of the "bad" engines ran so each kid had their own plane RTF for the cost of some balsa and paint.

I have to admit that this was the hardest work that I have ever done in this hobby, and the most fun! Keep up the good work with the MMs, it may drive you nuts at times, but you won't regret a minute of it.

stevecooper
09-19-2006, 11:17 PM
AEAJR: They do most their combat on the runway as we don't have enough planes to keep em busy in the air, But UPS's gonna take care of that wed, when were gett'in a whole mess of firebrid ll's,(thanks to doug keck over at RCU);) though they do seem to run the planes into each other at least once every few days, combat of sorts I guess!!! traded doug for an old ARF I've had lie'in around for years, What a guy,:D your bub, steve

AEAJR
09-28-2006, 02:06 PM
AEAJR, I noticed that the link to where to find clubs in first post is broken.

Great post and info! The closest club to me is about 20 miles. It might be time to start one in my town (though I have seen no one flying RC planes).

Thanks.

I fixed the link.

Remember that the address shown is NOT the flying field, but a member's house. Our address is 15 miles from me, but the field is 1 mile from my house. :)

Curtis
10-03-2006, 07:36 AM
I actually started this hobby several years ago, and then due to personal reasons had to drop out just when I was beginning, but this was my experience, and while I am sure it is not everyone's, I just thought I would post it...

I had heard of a local club that met nearby and decided to check it out, as I was building - at that time - a J3 Cub and needed advice.

First off, there were four old coots who essentially founded and ran the club. At the meeting things turned to talking shop, as they always do, and this big buffoon - one of the founders and outspoken members - would counter every statement or anything any other member would say with, "Those things are CRAP! Let me tell ya what you SHOULD be using!" and then would launch into a long diatribe. After a while I noticed that, other than the 'Big Four,' nobody else dared even say a word, because the Buffoon would launch in, "That stuff is CRAP! let me tell ya..."

THEN, those Gestapo tactics aside, the meeting I went to was also the annual meeting where they discussed this years 'club plane' for an annual fly-in that occurred in our area. Each year various clubs in the area would gather and have a different competition; one year it might be scale, another a pattern aerobatics plane, etc. This year it was a scale float plane. There was an annual levy of $60 per member in addition to annual club dues, for the 'club plane.' The Big Four decided on a 1/4 scale Cub on floats and discussed the radio, engine, etc, with no input from other members whatsoever.

After the meeting I asked one of the non-Big Four members (the person who invited me) as to who was going to build & fly the plane. the Big Four, of course. Do we ever get to fly it? Nope. Build any part of it? Nope. Who keeps it? The guys (the Big Four trade off). So we have to contribute so that those guys get a big, expensive plane and engine, plus a brand new radio to play with between themselves every year? Yep. And we don't get to touch it? Nope. So, we are essentially subsidizing their hobby for them? Yep.

Oh, and the club field was on property owned by one of the Big Four, and he got that money, too.

Not only that, but they went out of their way to shut down local ad-hoc flying fields by going to the local authorities and raising concerns over the field not being "AMA sanctioned" and uninsured and calling in phony noise complaints, etc...

It seems in every single gathering of people there are those who - for whatever reason - see themselves as Big Fish in a small pond and enjoy asserting themselves over others. I'm sure not all clubs are like this, but I had my fill of cliques and social power trips in high school.

I think I would rather fly guerilla-style out a sports field or empty cow pasture then deal with it again.

rahtware
10-03-2006, 09:15 AM
Man I'm sorry to hear you ran into such trouble... But a lot of what you said is the exact reason I no longer belong to a club, or the AMA. It's a shame that a great hobby like ours can be controled by the likes of those you spoke of.

As for flying guerilla... Welcome to the club:)! Although I call my version Outlaw flying... Or when I'm flying out on the coast... Flying, Pirate. I run into guys all the time flying in schoolyards or vacant fields... If I feel welcome I fly with them. If I don't, I don't waste my time.

Truth is there are some great clubs... My problem is that in 25 years in this hobby I haven't found one yet that doesn't have it's "Big Four" in charge.

AEAJR
10-03-2006, 12:12 PM
Not only that, but they went out of their way to shut down local ad-hoc flying fields by going to the local authorities and raising concerns over the field not being "AMA sanctioned" and uninsured and calling in phony noise complaints, etc...

It seems in every single gathering of people there are those who - for whatever reason - see themselves as Big Fish in a small pond and enjoy asserting themselves over others. I'm sure not all clubs are like this, but I had my fill of cliques and social power trips in high school.

I think I would rather fly guerilla-style out a sports field or empty cow pasture then deal with it again.

I could almost laugh at your strory, not because I don't believe you but because I do. Looking back, it must have been a pretty funny situation.

Give these points some thought. I am not defending their behavior but I will explain it as understanding people will help things make sense.

When you own the flying field, you get to be king. Clear and simple. :p Some kings are tyrants.

Despite the issues you raised, the membership must have felt that the pain was worth the privledge of using the field or they would not have been members. What did they know that you missed? If things were so aweful, why was your friend a member?

Every club has its cliques. Every club has his old coots. Mine as well as everyone elses. So what? Of cousee, most of the time the old coots don't own the field.

As for shutting down the gorilla flyers because they were not AMA clubs, why do you think they did that?

They did it because they wanted to make sure that no gorilla flyer caused a problem that would effect their ability to fly. If one of these "off field flyers" were to cause an injury and public outrage were to call for the ban of all flying it would threaten their field.

Also, those gorilla flyers represent a very clear and present danger to the safety of all flyers in the area. If one of those guys turns on a radio within a mile of that club field, you could have a quater scale plane out of control. That is VERY dangerous for the club members. Likewise if Gorilla Joe Flyer has his new plane up and one of the club members turns on on the same channel, Gorilla Joe's plane becomes a unguided missle looking for something or someone to hurt. It might just crash but it might also hit some child or maybe fly into traffic.

I worry about this all the time. I fly 3 meter sailplanes. My most current one cost over $1000. Yet a guy with a new radio, flying at the local soccer field could bring me down and I would never even know he was there. And I can bring him down he would never even realize what happened.

The 27 mhz RTFs are also in danger of the same thing. The only saving grace is that their ranges tend to be shorter, perhap a quarter mile is their threat zone. Of course with 27 mhz, cars and boats are a threat too, but again, the range of the car/boat radios tend to be under 300 feet.

These are primary concerns of every organized club. Someone is going to shoot down one of their planes, or will put a plane up in an inappropriate area and hurt someone, and it will impact the club's ability to fly.

Despite the fact that you saw them as old coots, they must have been providing something of value or the club members would not have been members. You might want to go back and find out what that is.

Funny/sad story. I hope you will give clubs another chance, though I am sure it will be somewhere else.

Joe Lang
10-03-2006, 12:20 PM
I actually started this hobby several years ago, and then due to personal reasons had to drop out just when I was beginning, but this was my experience, and while I am sure it is not everyone's, I just thought I would post it...

I had heard of a local club that met nearby and decided to check it out, as I was building - at that time - a J3 Cub and needed advice.

First off, there were four old coots who essentially founded and ran the club. At the meeting things turned to talking shop, as they always do, and this big buffoon - one of the founders and outspoken members - would counter every statement or anything any other member would say with, "Those things are CRAP! Let me tell ya what you SHOULD be using!" and then would launch into a long diatribe. After a while I noticed that, other than the 'Big Four,' nobody else dared even say a word, because the Buffoon would launch in, "That stuff is CRAP! let me tell ya..."

THEN, those Gestapo tactics aside, the meeting I went to was also the annual meeting where they discussed this years 'club plane' for an annual fly-in that occurred in our area. Each year various clubs in the area would gather and have a different competition; one year it might be scale, another a pattern aerobatics plane, etc. This year it was a scale float plane. There was an annual levy of $60 per member in addition to annual club dues, for the 'club plane.' The Big Four decided on a 1/4 scale Cub on floats and discussed the radio, engine, etc, with no input from other members whatsoever.

After the meeting I asked one of the non-Big Four members (the person who invited me) as to who was going to build & fly the plane. the Big Four, of course. Do we ever get to fly it? Nope. Build any part of it? Nope. Who keeps it? The guys (the Big Four trade off). So we have to contribute so that those guys get a big, expensive plane and engine, plus a brand new radio to play with between themselves every year? Yep. And we don't get to touch it? Nope. So, we are essentially subsidizing their hobby for them? Yep.

Oh, and the club field was on property owned by one of the Big Four, and he got that money, too.

Not only that, but they went out of their way to shut down local ad-hoc flying fields by going to the local authorities and raising concerns over the field not being "AMA sanctioned" and uninsured and calling in phony noise complaints, etc...

It seems in every single gathering of people there are those who - for whatever reason - see themselves as Big Fish in a small pond and enjoy asserting themselves over others. I'm sure not all clubs are like this, but I had my fill of cliques and social power trips in high school.

I think I would rather fly guerilla-style out a sports field or empty cow pasture then deal with it again.


I think that what you experienced was the exception and not the rule. It's great being around fellows who you can bounce off of when you need help with a building snag or trouble programming your radio, and will pitch in and help you extract an airplane out of a tree. The give and take is well worth the trouble you may have from time-to-time with the codgers that are on ego trips. There are politics in all organizations, so you have to learn to turn a deaf ear to the nonsense and pick your like-minded friends in the group. Loners and anti-social types have a rough go of it in this hobby and in life in general.

rahtware
10-03-2006, 05:05 PM
AEAJR

I respect your position, but question the logic.

This hobby belongs to all of us, not only the "kings" of the field... I can see them getting worked up if a guy started flying within a mile or even two of their field, but is it their RIGHT to shut them down? No! They don't own the air, only the field. If they were a nice bunch of guys they wouldn't have gorilla flyers in their area because every guy in town would know about their "great RC club" and want to fly at that field. As an Outlaw, I fly at least five miles away from the two club fields in my area, but if the members ever tried to shut down my school-yard flying I would be tempted to fly a little closer...

As for problems caused by gorilla flyers shutting down a private field... I think that is quite unlikely. Most states allow a landowner to use his property for what ever purpose he wants... As long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. In the case of the old coots, if I was their neighbor and had to put up with the noise of their flying leaf blowers I think I would be tempted to have them shut down to get a little peace and quiet.

Politics? I've just gotten too tired of putting up with jerks and stupid people that are on a power trip to feel like I can turn a blind eye to their games. What if the big four made a decision that could get someone hurt? My old club had a member who couldn't keep a plane in the air... His depth perception was almost gone, but the group just laughed about it because he was one of the "old timers".

This was also the club that was run by a group of BIG plane flyers (kinda like the AMA) who thought that a guy flying anything that cost less then 5 grand was wasting air space. They decided that the club "needed" a $15,000 lawn mower so assessed a $100 per member fee (over the normal club fees). As my last scratched plane cost about $15 I decided to fly elsewhere.

I also question your "loner" statement. I agree that there are those that just can't get along with others... But I don't think Curtis, or myself and the guys I fly with fall into that category... Curtis wanted to belong to a club, and I am sure that if there was a club WORTH joining in his area he would... So would I. But life is just too short to have to put up with the likes of the "Big Four"!

AEAJR
10-03-2006, 05:51 PM
rathware,

I simply explained their thinking, especially as the owner of the land. If you don't like their thinking, that is your right. I tend to agree with you.

If you don't understand the logic of my comments, then you must not understand the issues. Let me see if I can help.

As far as off field flyers, the fact that YOU might be diligent in your flying provides no comfort to anyone but you. No one knows what you are doing, only that it is not in cooperation with anyone but yourself. An you can not know about other off field flyers who might be on your channel. They have also chosen to operate outside the cooperative structure of the club. So they are a threat to your safety, the safety of your plane, just as you are a threat to them. Sorry but that is how it is.

As far as the 4 guys right to shut down a field, I agree, they likely have no right, power or authority to shut down a field. No one said they did. The local governmental authorities, on the other hand, do have that right and authority according to whatever local ordnances exist. Sounds like the local authorities are doing their job.

While you may have the right to the quiet enjoyment of your property you do not have the right to do whatever you like upon it. That varies from location to location but it is generally true.

For example, most cities do not allow the discharge of fire arms on your property, even if you are REALLY careful about it. Most will not allow you to put up buildings over certain heights or cover more than some % of the land. These are just examples.

When you operate an RC plane, you my keep your plane over your property, but your radio waves extend far beyond your property. Now, if you could shield them in some way, then there would be no problem. But your actions can and do have an impact on others, whether you recognize it or not. As such, certain safety procedures, insurance requirements and the like are normally required by local governments in relation to how people operate RC model airplanes.

If you are an off field flyer, I hope you are aware of a major breakthrough in this area. The Spektrum DX6 which operates on 2.4 GHz and was designed to work cooperatively with other 2.4 GHz devices. Hitec and others should be releasing theirs soon. If you are using one of these, then the whole discussion about radio interference and shoot down goes away and I applaud you for buying this advanced system. However users of 2.4 GHz radios are still the exception and not the rule.

Unfortunately our 72 MHz and 27 MHz airplane systems do not have this capability. Most likely 2.4 GHz will replace them over time, just for this reason. But, until they do, radio frequency/channel control is our only way to provide any level of safety. In order for that to work, flyers must be able to see and know about each other and agree to cooperate. Sorry, but that is they way it is.

You don't have to agree with anything I said. I just explained the thinking of people and their reasons. If you don't care, that is your right and I respect your right not to care. I just wish you would care, but I can't force you to.

BTW, gorilla flyers was not my term. I prefer the expression "off field flyers" indicating people who are operating outside the safety and frequency control cooperative structure of a club field, whether it is an AMA field or any other approved field. There are certainly flying fields that are not AMA clubs. I have flown on them myself. There is certainly no one to one relationship there.

You could establish a flying field of your own. I encourage you to do it. If you do, even if you choose not to join the AMA family, you might benefit from looking at the AMA guidelines as to field location and safety guidelines. They might be helpful.

If you don't like these 4 guys, don't join their club. I only sought to provide some insight into their thinking. You don't have to agree with their thinking, nor do I.

Finally, go back and read my post again. I made no statements about loaners who can not get along with others. So I don't know to what you refer.

Last point. You make reference to the "Big Plane AMA". I am not familar with this organization. I am a member of the AMA. I fly gliders and small electric planes. In fact our AMA chartered club does not allow powered planes over 60" wing span. If it is bigger than 60, it has to be a glider. Now some of the gliders get pretty big, but I am not sure that has anything to do with your comments.

Clubs, AMA chartered or not, have the right to choose any type of structure they like. Free flight only, control line only, electric only, glider only, warbirds only, whatever. The AMA does not place a mandate on this, only that they encourage clubs to be open to new members and give consideration to other types of planes, as is appropriate to their field and the wishes of their members.

DickCorby
10-03-2006, 05:57 PM
I fly at least five miles away from the two club fields in my area, but if the members ever tried to shut down my school-yard flying I would be tempted to fly a little closer...

This type of threat can get you into a lot of trouble. I have known of people coming near a flying field, and turning on a transmitter to shoot down the plane of someone they didn't like. It backfired however, as they were aprehended by the police, went to court, paid a big fine, plus had to compensate the other flyer for his lost plane. I guess there are laws on the books to cover this situation.

Ours is a hobby sport by definition. In my opinion the Sport part demands that I participate in a Sportsmanlike manner. And fling close to a known field with the intent of causing someone problems is not sportsmanlike, but borderline criminal.

More and more of the Schools in this area are running people off when they fly on school property. I've heard of the police passing out tickets for being a public nuisance to people flying at a local soccer field. Schools that do allow it are doing so only to established groups with AMA coverage. I'm afraid that this maverick flying is creating a lot of negative attention overall, and soon we all will have to put up with more regulation.

Curtis
10-03-2006, 09:59 PM
Ooops! I didn't mean to start such a firestorm!

I have to agree with responsibilities of people who fly RC airplanes to the public and their fellow fliers. It is very much the same with full-scale, piloted aircraft (where most of my experience lies). The very freedom that flight allows carries with it responsibilities.

The control, safety, camaraderie, etc. that can be had in a group of people who share your joy & passion obviously can't be found singularly. I agree. The local hobby shop that I frequent always has at least three or four people just 'hanging out' talking about flying, aircraft, history, etc, and I enjoy their company when I am there. So, even though it is a 40-minute drive away, I will likely find myself in their company when ready to start flying again (my Antoinette is about 40% complete!).

As far as the politics that seem to be the thing that drives most people away from clubs - any kind of club - it comes down to this: In a democracy you get what you deserve. For those who were willing to tolerate the berating, intimidation and domineering nature of the 'Big Four' I described (or people like them) that other posters have accepted as 'part of the territory,' well...then you get what you deserve. I think that if people are truly concerned about all of the safety, control and public perception concerns of the hobby (as they say they are), then they also have a responsibility to confront the very issues that cause discontent, discomfort and divisiveness in a club - any kind of club. And that means confronting bullies and those who seek to dominate the group for their own unhealthy reasons. Most bullies and big fish in small ponds are paper tigers and rarely stand up to direct confrontation. In any group (or government, for that matter) it is the responsibility of its members to set the standards for behavior. If we do not act on our convictions then chaos and irresponsible leadership will reign.

Aeajr, I just wanted to say that I don't believe that the leadership of this club of which I spoke was concerned about anyone or anything else but their own local dominance of the hobby in our rural area, certainly as proven by their attitudes. They simply saw themselves - by virtue of their longevity, if nothing else - as the local FAA of model aircraft. THAT is why they went out of their way to shut down local flying fields. Having learned to fly Old Timers with single-channel, tuned reed systems might garner a little respect, but it gives no one any right to dominate another.

That all said, I would LOVE to hear more about the Spectrum radio systems, as I cannot always guarantee that I will fly in a controlled environment. I would hate to think that by turning my radio 'On' that I am putting at risk someone else's Pride & Joy. That would make me sick!

Given that electric flight lends itself literally to 'back yard and park flying' (as advertised), maybe someone knowledgeable in the area can start a new thread on protecting your (and others) investments and creations by responsible radio choices & use when not flying in a controlled environment?

Thanks all! Now, get out there, confront the bullies and make clubs accessible and fun for everyone!

C

AEAJR
10-03-2006, 11:21 PM
I don't think we have a firestorm here.

I think we have a free exchange of ideas. Sometimes that can become passionate but I think we are still at a pretty civil level.

Hopefully we will all come to understand each other's point of view a little better. Hopefully we will all be a little more mindful of the other guy and the consequences of our actions.

You asked about the DX6 and 2.4 GHz radio systems. Here is the information. I often recommend this radio to new flyers who are focused on parkflyers and it is my main radio recommendation to people who expect to be flying "off field".

DX6- The Perfect Parkflyer Radio
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2077 (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2077)

With this technology you can never be accused of shooting anyone down and need not be concerned about being shot down by another flyer. Goes a long way toward safety!

It is a good radio at a good price.

Spektrum DX 6 - $199
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPM2460 (http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=SPM2460)
Review
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=623 (http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=623)
If your main pursuit is electric planes, parkflyers, hand launched gliders
and other smaller aircraft, under 60 inch wing span , this might be your
best choice. Practical field reports, as documented in the threads below
are that this radio/receiver has a useful range of about 1500-2000 feet,
which is more then enough for these plane and further than most people
will fly them. Never worry about channel conflict again. This promises
to be the RC technology of the future.

Digital DSMT Spread Spectrum Modulation
10 model memories, dual rates, exponential, 6 channels, 8 standard mixes and
three programmable mixes. No crystals needed and no channel conflict
control needed. Not suitable for glow planes, large electrics or larger
gliders.
May have problems with metal or carbon fiber fuselages.

DX6 Flight experience thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452817&page=2&pp=15 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452817&page=2&pp=15)
What does the AMA think?
http://www.modelaircraft.org/spreadspec.asp (http://www.modelaircraft.org/spreadspec.asp)

rahtware
10-04-2006, 08:22 AM
First let me apologize to AEAJR for my misquote, it was Joe Lang that made the "loners" comment. It amuses me to be on this side of the “loner” discussion as the last time I got flamed was because I made the suggestion that the best "trainer" is another person, not a plane...

As to the legality of "intentionally" shooting down another flyer... Prove I did it! I just said I would be “tempted” to fly a little closer to their field. Anyway, my comment was taken completely out of context.

In 26 years in RC I have been very careful about when, where, what and how I fly.... But, if someone attacks me, I have no problem fighting back. And please don’t throw the “authorities” into the mix. “They” don’t get involved until someone (Fab Four) complains. And we all know that it is a lot easier for a municipality to shut down some 20 year-old flying his E-powered foamy in the city park, than to stand up to an older, power hungry (property owner/tax paying) citizen. As for me being hit, or hitting another Outlaw (my preferred expression), that’s the luck of the draw (and before anyone gets their shorts in a knot, please refer to the first sentence in this paragraph).

On the subject of local ordinances... AJ is right, I can't shoot a firearm on my lot, but the rancher next door shoots year around. Legal AND logical to me as he owns about a thousand acres and I own less then a half an acre. Besides, I thought I covered all this in my "without infringing on the rights of others" statement.

As for my “Big Boys” AMA statement, it’s simple… Why do they stand so strongly with a standard insurance policy for all members (don’t you think it could be potential risk based like most other insurances)? Ask your AMA rep. why a guy flying small indoor rubber-band planes has to pay the same insurance fee (it is a flat-rate part of your AMA membership) as some guy that wants to throw a 45 lb, 6 hp flame throwing monster in the air (or a 250mph jet for that matter)? Isn't that the same line of thought that the "Big Four" used… The many have to subsidize the few just for the privilege of flying?

Anyway, this is all just a tempest in a teapot as the hobby is evolving and I don’t think I, or anyone else posting here, have the strength to fight natural progression… Low powered/noise foamies are becoming more popular due to their low cost and the fact that a guy can fly them almost anywhere. The AMA and “official” clubs are costing more and more to belong to, and so are becoming more exclusive. So the AMA and the “O” clubs will become the haven of those with more expensive “appetites” , and “Outlaw” flying/non AMA clubs (yes with Spectrum type radios) will be where the rest of us end up. My biggest fear in regards to this is that the AMA, like the Big Four, will try to bully the rest of us around…..

AEAJR
10-04-2006, 01:34 PM
Anyway, this is all just a tempest in a teapot as the hobby is evolving and I don’t think I, or anyone else posting here, have the strength to fight natural progression… Low powered/noise foamies are becoming more popular due to their low cost and the fact that a guy can fly them almost anywhere. The AMA and “official” clubs are costing more and more to belong to, and so are becoming more exclusive. So the AMA and the “O” clubs will become the haven of those with more expensive “appetites” , and “Outlaw” flying/non AMA clubs (yes with Spectrum type radios) will be where the rest of us end up. My biggest fear in regards to this is that the AMA, like the Big Four, will try to bully the rest of us around…..

I don't know what an "O" club is but I tend to be with you on most of this.

I have never seen the AMA try tp bully anyone so I don't think there is much risk there.

Rabbitcreekok
10-04-2006, 05:29 PM
I think one thing that is missining this iteration of the disscussion of AMA clubs and "outlaw or guerrilla" flying is that without the AMA, we probably would not be flying at all. Or we would have three frequencies and have to have a federal ham license to fly. Our dues paid for the ability of the AMA to work with the federal government to block out the present frequencies we have available at this time.

The AMA, through the use of our dues money, is working to not have the federal government restrict our model flying, including electrons,glow fuel, gas and jet-a because of the possibility of our type of models being used as a terrorist weapon. I know we think that is stupid, but look who we are dealing with, the federal government.

By not belonging to the AMA and providing the funds to lobby the feds, we risk losing some or all of what we have presently.

All of our dues money does not go to insurance coverage. I filled out a survey recently from the AMA concerning a dues rate structure that would address the park flyers. They are aware of the difference in the risk of a 250 mph jet and a slow stick and are looking at doing something about it. I think the AMA will do the right thing to be fair to all. They are not the bad guys.

AEAJR
10-04-2006, 06:10 PM
Rabbitcreekok,

Well said. I believe the insurance component of the dues are around $12. So, if there were a two tier structure which maintained the current coverages that would mean that some people might pay about $4 less and some $4 more. Big deal!

Face it, people don't care about all the AMA does for them until someone takes their privledge to fly. THEN they want to know what the AMA is doing about it, even though they are not members.

They are getting a free ride and they know it.

You and I care carrying them and will continue to carry them since they will not help fund the work. That is the way it is.

rahtware
10-04-2006, 06:12 PM
All of our dues money does not go to insurance coverage. I filled out a survey recently from the AMA concerning a dues rate structure that would address the park flyers. They are aware of the difference in the risk of a 250 mph jet and a slow stick and are looking at doing something about it. I think the AMA will do the right thing to be fair to all. They are not the bad guys.

I understand and mostly agree with what you said... I guess they might be changing for the better.

Back in the 80s when I dropped my membership they didn't want to hear anything about a rate structure and insisted that each member have a magazine subscription (which I had no interest in). It was the same time that they started ignoring the north west. So I decided to ignore them...

As to the "Bully" statement, I didn't mean to say they were, just that they, as all large organizations, could become that. Couldn't you see a potential for the AMA working out a deal with the feds that would require an RC flyer to be a member of, and fly only at AMA strips... in the name of national security???

DickCorby
10-04-2006, 06:19 PM
It seems that those here that dont want to join anything are not seeing the big picture.

In our area the School Districts, Soccer Clubs, and others with large areas suitable for park flyers, are having the modellers run off their property. They are un educated to what they perceive to be a serious and dangerous practice on their property. And yes, they will call in the authorities, and yes you can get a ticket for being a nuicance, and yes you can go to court and be fined.

If you live in the boonies, and are lucky enough to have a large place to fly, and neighbors that dont mind you flying over their property, great for you. But that is becoming the minority, as the cities spread over the landscape.

The AMA is most likely the best hope for the hobby to be able to go on in the future. Quit Complaining about the "Good Ol' Boys" and start putting forth the effort they have over the years to promote the hobby, or you wont have the hobby when you get to the "Good Ol' Boy" age.

AEAJR
10-04-2006, 06:24 PM
As to the "Bully" statement, I didn't mean to say they were, just that they, as all large organizations, could become that. Couldn't you see a potential for the AMA working out a deal with the feds that would require an RC flyer to be a member of, and fly only at AMA strips... in the name of national security???

Well if you subscribe to the idea that ALL things are possible, I guess the answer is yes to whatever possibility you suggest.

Do I think it is likely? No. If they had wanted to do that they could have tried it a LONG time ago. It would have failed but they could have tried it.

On the other hand, the feds could say that they require all flyes to have the same pilots license as full scale pilots, pay fees to the federal government and anyone not having such a license be fined or arrested, in the name of national security. While I also see this as highly unlikely, the feds DO have the authority over the air where the AMA does not.

So, the organization that is fighting for your privledge to fly is not getting your support and the group that is empowered to take your privledge away is not under your watchful eye.

What is wrong with this picture?

Rabbitcreekok
10-04-2006, 06:37 PM
It was the same time that they started ignoring the north west.

The northwest????? Just kidding. Yes it is possible that something could develop along the lines that you mentioned. But if that is what it takes to keep us flying, then we will have to live with it. I know what you are saying that they would try to get something like an agreement that all flyers have to belong to the AMA to benefit the AMA but I don't think that would happen.

If you belonged to the AMA, you would have the opportunity to vote for the vice president and council member that covers the northwest (if they remember you are there) and have some say in what happens. You and others could lobby the vice president for those changes you would like to see happen.

The AMA does lots of other things. We just formed a new, all electric club here and have worked with Jack Frost, the AMA education director to develop a program in co-operation with the Boys & Girls club here to get youth involved with model aviation.

He suggested a 4 week program, working through the FPG-9(flat plate glider), the Skystreak and the Delta Dart to generate interest in modeling. The Boys & Girls club has two great facilities for indoor flying, so we can do this year around. I don't know if we could have come up with the program on our own without his help.

rahtware
10-04-2006, 06:50 PM
So, the organization that is fighting for your privledge to fly is not getting your support and the group that is empowered to take your privledge away is not under your watchful eye.

What is wrong with this picture?

Hey, no problem... Let's see, 200,000 members, at say $5 each to protect our right to fly.(I would think the job could get for a million a year) and $14 for insurance... OK I'll even round it up to $20 and send in my check today! Oops, I guess they want another $38... And the local AMA club wants $60/year + $100 to join (their field is 30 min. away).....

rahtware
10-04-2006, 07:22 PM
But I am a Good Ol' Boy...

Have you, or anyone you personally know been fined? Or are we talking rumor here?? And are you sure the problem is with the property owners, or do you have a "Big Four" in your area???

One of the places I fly, when I am down in the area is within the city limits of a tourist/retirement town... The worst kind of place to try to fly! But even there, when the town received a complaint they, with the input of LOCAL flyers (not the AMA) came up with a safety and noise restriction that allows the flying of true park flyers (no AXI powered Strykers). Has anybody tried that in your area?



It seems that those here that dont want to join anything are not seeing the big picture.

In our area the School Districts, Soccer Clubs, and others with large areas suitable for park flyers, are having the modellers run off their property. They are un educated to what they perceive to be a serious and dangerous practice on their property. And yes, they will call in the authorities, and yes you can get a ticket for being a nuicance, and yes you can go to court and be fined.

If you live in the boonies, and are lucky enough to have a large place to fly, and neighbors that dont mind you flying over their property, great for you. But that is becoming the minority, as the cities spread over the landscape.

The AMA is most likely the best hope for the hobby to be able to go on in the future. Quit Complaining about the "Good Ol' Boys" and start putting forth the effort they have over the years to promote the hobby, or you wont have the hobby when you get to the "Good Ol' Boy" age.

DickCorby
10-04-2006, 08:02 PM
As to the Local Flyers that came to your rescue, Were none of them AMA Members? I suspect not!

As a matter of fact YES! there was a fellow flying a little yellow electric cub at the local high school on the empty, unfenced football practice field, and he was stopped by the local police and was issued a citation for tresspass, and being a nuisance. Not sure what he paid in fines, but there is no more flying at the High School, or any other similar area. Yet I can go to any of them and throw Frisbees, play ball, ride a bike, walk my dog with no problem.

I suspect that there is a "Big Four" in every club. Some not as obnoxious as you seem to indicate. And I guess I'm one of them this year, as secretary of our club.

But bear in mind, these are the folks, like me, that spent a fortune over the years to enable the advances that the Newbies take for granted possible. If there were no old timers way back when, Companies like Futaba, JR etc. would have had no market, and therefore no need to create the great equipment you now fly with.

I suggest you try to find a single channel escapement radio system, and spend 2 months building a Falcon 56 (Kit not ARF) using ambroid Glue. Cover it with silkspan and dope. Power it with an unmuffled McCoy 15 glow engine, 2-3 lbs of A and B batteries and a range shorter than your eyebrows. Take it to a cow pasture, be sure and wind up the rubber band to power the escapement, and see how long it takes before you destroy it. Just dont forget "one click for right, two clicks for left". That's where I and a lot of those you disparage started, persevered, and still love the hobby.

AEAJR
10-04-2006, 08:05 PM
But I am a Good Ol' Boy...

Have you, or anyone you personally know been fined? Or are we talking rumor here?? And are you sure the problem is with the property owners, or do you have a "Big Four" in your area???



I don't know where the Big Four live, but where I live, flying RC anywhere but County or State approved sites is in volation of local laws. The schools all prohibit it.

So, if you put an RC airplane up and don't have the appropriate permits you are breaking the law. Whether a cop chooses to just chase you away or fine you is at his discretion.

The State an County fields will not allow ANYONE to fly without AMA insurance. PERIOD!

AMA is a known entity. They understand AMA and the AMA safety code. They understand AMA clubs and how they are expected to maintain a safe environment.

Like or not, the AMA has become the acceptable body to local governments because they take care of all the things that the govenment people need addressed. Not because they tried to exclude anyone else but because they do a good job and they are trusted.

rclark
10-04-2006, 09:46 PM
AEAJR, I see you live in NY .... That may explain it. Out here, we can still fly 'anywhere' (within reason of course). School yard, parks, street, front yard, at the club field (24 hours a day if you wish) , Knob hill where I like to slope once in awhile, etc. I am sure someone will ruin it for us someday, but right now it is not a problem. Soccer, little league football, dogs, etc. ... now they are the problem :o . Even packing a gun in plain sight isn't a problem either as long as you avoid schools and public , federal buildings .... Have to get a concealed permit to wear weapon out of sight though. Rocketry same thing, except when you go above 400 feet. Then you have to contack FAA for clearences (airport nearby) . We have a 25,000 foot ceiling launch site for big rockets about an hour away too.

I support AMA for reasons above and in my previous post... and it allows me unrestricted flying at the club field. Rarely do I use the parks/schools anymore. Usually not that hard up any more to fly .... For $25 yearly fee and $61 for AMA (me and 3 kids) it's worth it. That's what? Around $7 a month.....

AEAJR
10-04-2006, 11:03 PM
Yes, it is quite different here

AMA $58 per year
Leisure pass $20 for 3 years
Flying permit - $20 per year
$35 per year for the club

I could go fly in the parks but I would be "removed" quickly.

I slope soar over the beaches in the winter time and they STILL give us trouble, and we are flying gliders. No Motors!

It only takes one accident to change everything!

DickCorby
10-04-2006, 11:23 PM
Boy do you have it easy.

Club Dues $200
AMA $58
IMAC $25

We pay nearly $2000 monthly lease on the flying field, and the city industrial area is moving in on us more every day. We estimate that within 2 years we lose the field, if we are lucky. We are constantly getting flack about our flying over the industrial buildings on the south (1/4 Mile away). Building on the north (less than 1/4 mile) to begin in the spring.

So being able to get AMA assistance in obtaining a flying field is top priority for our club now. Without their help, we'd be out of a field in the near future.

rahtware
10-04-2006, 11:27 PM
rclark

Thanks for clearing that up for me, I hadn't caught that NY address for AEAJR.

AEAJR

I now understand your problem (just a little). I guess if I lived in an area like yours I would see things a little different. And, I hope if I show you where I live you might be able to understand my point of view a little better. Here is the view looking across the street from my house (and landing strip) (as in George of the Jungle- "Watch out for that tree....")

17717

It must be tough living in an area where everything is so controlled. I get upset just driving down to San Francisco! Everyone seems so pushy and in a hurry.

Dick

You do have a few years on me after all... I came in when you hung two colored ribbons on your antenna to denote your channel. Mini servos weighed over an ounce, and NOBODY flew ARFs. (And I was 30 when I started!) I have about 40 RC planes under my belt (about half of them in the rafters in the garage) and still love to build... almost as much as flying.

Please don't assume though, none of the guys that I know that went to the meeting is a member of, or represent the AMA (unless you are talking about the American Motorcycle Association) in any way.

As for all this "guilt trip" about supporting the AMA because of all of the lobbying they do on my behalf, I wrote them and asked how much of the membership fee was used to protect our rights in DC... My intention was to send that amount in each year just to quiet those that hold that against me. But it seems that I can't... Here is the reply that I received...


That number is hard to come up with. The last time AMA did a real hard push and really did lots of lobbying was during the frequency issues which I believe was in the 1970's.
We do not have a lobbyist on staff nor have we ever hired one to my knowledge. We have several good employees that are excellent speakers and have represented AMA to Congress, FAA and FCC, EPA and other various government agencies. So as you can see without actually going back from the beginning of this year and checking to see what events these gentlemen have attended it would be hard for me to give you a true $$$ figure.
Joyce Hager
Acting Executive Director
Bringing Modelers Together


I guess if you agree that they didn't use more than a million last year in order to keep my right-to-flight open then I could send in the $5 that I mentioned in my previous post each year. What do you say?

Curtis
10-04-2006, 11:43 PM
I think that:

A) Questioning bureaucracies, and their responsiveness to the people they represent is not only a healthy thing to do, but a responsibility of the represented.

b) Insurance is always wise if you can afford it, and cost should always be relative to the risk - balsa & tissue floater vs. jets & large-scale a/c.

C) We should always behave with respect & caution towards other people - fellow flyer's, public, etc, BEFORE our own wants & desires.

D) The main reason people DON'T join clubs is because of the out-of-control attitudes and behaviors of others.

I think we ALL need to look to ourselves in the mirror and ask, 'Am I part of the problem, or part of the solution?' Do I welcome people to the hobby, and greet that first-time flyer with his little foam, two-channel trainer to the field, or do I run him off because he doesn't have his AMA card and hasn't 'joined the club'? Or, do we just snicker at his 'little airplane' and ignore him until he sulks off to his car with his unwelcomed plane and disappointed kids in tow? (I've seen this). When newbies have questions do I educate and instruct in an open, friendly way, or do I lecture him with an opinionated diatribe to make sure he never asks me something that stupid ever again?

One need only look at some of the out-of-control and extreme videos of RC crashes & mishaps on Youtube, etc, to know that someday, somewhere people are gonna put jets and irresponsible teens purposely crashing their Christmas present into someone's school, car or house together, scare the hell out of the public and create some rules & regulations that none of us will probably care for.

Self-regulation is exactly that. How well do people (including all of us) really do that?

rahtware
10-05-2006, 12:05 AM
Dick

I guess Tacoma is getting as crowded as any other big city. I am truly sorry that you are loosing your field, it is a shame that local governments don't seem to want to back our hobby.

Years ago, I suggested to my club (that was having a hard time finding a flying field) that we start a "kids Club". You know going out to schools and giving demonstrations. My goal was to get the community more involved in the hobby, as the more people involved, the more pressure could be brought to a public funded field... The club would have nothing to do with it! It seems that the core of our club didn't want to share the skies with a bunch of kids...

They did get permission to fly at an old log landing (for logs not planes) site. Not as good as it could have been, but it is private and they have the field all to themselves.

I believe your "field" problem is happening all over the country. Our local club field is now surrounded by grapes (it used to be an open "sheep" field). I mean, right up to the edge of the landing strip! Have you ever seen a $8,000-$15,000 1/4 scale plane "shread" it's way through a bunch of grape stakes because the pilot missed the runway? I saw three go in over a two week period the last year I was a club member.

rahtware
10-05-2006, 12:11 AM
Curtis

I wish I was as able to express myself as well as you do. You wrote exactly what I have been trying to, in my own awkward way, say.

Curtis
10-05-2006, 12:23 AM
Thanks, Larry :)

Broken Balsa
10-07-2006, 04:16 PM
I started flying r/c models in 1961 or 62. In all those years I have only seen one person pick up a transmitter and fly a plane cold turkey and he designed the Lance Air. I still cannot believe he did it. Please listen to the gentlemen who tell you to get help from an instructor. That person with a buddy box will make the hobby enjoyable and most likely a life long love affair. Many people have tried it on thier own only to fail and throw the remains in the trash can or in a back room at home to be forgotten. This is not whats its all about. You would have to live in a very remote area not to have a flying club with in driving distance. These folks are in it usually for the long hawl and like all who love thier hobby cannot wait to pass it on to some one else. Go there, ask questions and you will be supprised at the response you will get. Just like on this forum there will be those there who cannot wait to help you learn the right way and you will enjoy the hobby the rest of your life. I did and I still do...Ron

rahtware
10-07-2006, 04:42 PM
I started flying r/c models in 1961 or 62. In all those years I have only seen one person pick up a transmitter and fly a plane cold turkey and he designed the Lance Air. I still cannot believe he did it. Please listen to the gentlemen who tell you to get help from an instructor. That person with a buddy box will make the hobby enjoyable and most likely a life long love affair. Many people have tried it on thier own only to fail and throw the remains in the trash can or in a back room at home to be forgotten. This is not whats its all about. You would have to live in a very remote area not to have a flying club with in driving distance. These folks are in it usually for the long hawl and like all who love thier hobby cannot wait to pass it on to some one else. Go there, ask questions and you will be supprised at the response you will get. Just like on this forum there will be those there who cannot wait to help you learn the right way and you will enjoy the hobby the rest of your life. I did and I still do...Ron

I agree, except the club part (if you are talking about an "official club, not just a group of guys who fly together).

The person who taught me the basics (glider) was not an AMA or club member. When I decided to fly power I took my plane to the local municipal RC field (AMA not required). I walked up to a group of old-timers who had been flying and asked if any of them would teach me the basics of powered flight. They all smiled and one said he would. Turned out to be one of the best instructors I have ever had in my life. I don't know if he belonged to the AMA, but with his help I leanred to fly in about 2 hours... No crashes, no stress, just good fun with a great guy.

I have met a few guys who were self taught, but everyone of them had their share of horror stories. Without an instructor the learning curve is long and costly, with one it is short, low cost and a lot of fun.

Broken Balsa
10-07-2006, 05:08 PM
I am refering to both. Offical clubs and those who are just a bunch of guys who get together and fly. I have been associated with both. What I said seems to apply to both types. As a general rule is, when more than two flyers get together you got someone who if approched will help you with a problem or learning. I am on a new learning curve now. I am just starting out on flying wings. I live out in the country but will most likely migrate to the nearest town and get some help when I fly one for the first time. Its nice to ask a question before you take the jump. I have given instruction to more than I can remember. Most of them on my old Telemaster and I know I enjoyed it more than they did. I have taught a few to fly full scale planes also, mostly in Cessna 150's but a few in J-3's over the years. Isn't flying a wonderful affliction to have. Ron

rahtware
10-07-2006, 06:29 PM
I am refering to both. Offical clubs and those who are just a bunch of guys who get together and fly. I have been associated with both. What I said seems to apply to both types. As a general rule is, when more than two flyers get together you got someone who if approched will help you with a problem or learning. I am on a new learning curve now. I am just starting out on flying wings. I live out in the country but will most likely migrate to the nearest town and get some help when I fly one for the first time. Its nice to ask a question before you take the jump. I have given instruction to more than I can remember. Most of them on my old Telemaster and I know I enjoyed it more than they did. I have taught a few to fly full scale planes also, mostly in Cessna 150's but a few in J-3's over the years. Isn't flying a wonderful affliction to have. Ron

J-3s! Man I wish I knew you back then. I would love to fly in a CUB.

I worked in state parks and met a lot of people who had great stories. One of the best was a gentleman who was an artillery spotter in Cubs, in WWII. During a R&R to England he took up a "war weary" cub for a fun flight. While up the engine quit! No problem, it's a Cub with a great glide ratio. He said he had plenty of time to find a place to land and chose a country road with wide shoulders. He lined up to land and only had to clear a grove of trees where the road came out of a curve to a nice long level stretch. He had just cleared the trees when he saw the wire! Next thing he knew he was sitting on the ground next to the CUB which had nosed in. He said he was shook up but didn’t even have a scratch! GOOD OL' CUB!!!

Broken Balsa
10-07-2006, 07:03 PM
Looks like we are both retired. Hope you are enjoying yours, I am enjoying mine. The J-3 is a good plane. The clark Y airfoil is a good wing to learn with be it full scale or model. When rigged properly it will stall clean and will give you everything but a phone call to let you know its going to happen. I owned an L-16 (military champ) for a few years and it was a little nicer to fly than the J-3 because it would cruise at 85 mph verses the 75 the cub would and it had a fuel injected 85 hp engine. I built a scale of the L-16 some years back and it flew just like the real one, low and slow. I may get around to bulding another one with electric power some day. I don't know where the coast you live on is but before moving to Central OR. I lived on the OR. coast. We use to drive 60 miles to fly with a flying club and to attend meetings. There was only myself and one other that flew r/c in the area at the time and we had fun but missed having others to talk to about the hobby. I learned to fly r/c in Denver, where I was stationed in 1961 by a fellow who was flying a reed system. I bought an orbit reed and built a hog and he, with much skill taught me to fly it. Until that time it was all free flight and u control. Thanks for the come backs. ...Ron

Curtis
10-07-2006, 10:23 PM
http://aerofiles.com/taylor-e2.jpgOkay, this is way off-topic, but I couldn't resist : )

Bob Hoover learned to fly in an Taylor E-2 Cub (predecessor to the J-3) with a 37-horse engine. As the story goes, he bought a book on aerobatics and taught himself as much as possible. Wanting to learn more he worked and saved money and then enquired as to who was the best aerobatics instructor in the area.

The tall, gawky teenager flew to this instructors home field and asked him for flight instruction. This 'ace' pilot was amused, but decided to go up with Bob to see what the kid knew. They flew for an hour, or so, and upon landing made arrangements for flight instruction.

What Bob was never allowed to tell anyone was that he was the one doing the instruction AND getting paid for it! But, he had to make it look like HE was the student!

I think the bottom line is that truly good flying is all about energy management and learning to read the aerodynamics of your wing. Billy Mitchell and Chuck Yeager both said that Bob Hoover was the greatest living stick & rudder pilot of our time. And I suspect it was all because of that underpowered, little predecessor to the J-3...

AEAJR
10-08-2006, 02:56 AM
AEAJR

I now understand your problem (just a little). I guess if I lived in an area like yours I would see things a little different. And, I hope if I show you where I live you might be able to understand my point of view a little better. Here is the view looking across the street from my house (and landing strip) (as in George of the Jungle- "Watch out for that tree....")

17717

It must be tough living in an area where everything is so controlled. I get upset just driving down to San Francisco! Everyone seems so pushy and in a hurry.



Yes, I do have a better understanding of your point of view.

As for it being tough living here ... well ... it is expensive, but the level of services, entertainment and the quality of the schools makes it worth it. You just become accostumed to regulation and accept as a side effect of living in the suburb of a huge city.

rahtware
10-08-2006, 04:24 PM
Ron

It's funny how this hobby goes. I built and crashed a U-control plane when I was 12. I was 33 (not 30 as I posted earlier) the next time I built a plane, a Gentle Lady. The man who gave me the kit taught me how to fly it. I then went into powered RC. When I moved up to a remote town on the northern California coast I got into U-control with a bunch of town kids that needed something to do. I was still flying powered and gliders, but after a couple more moves and for family reasons I didn't build or fly RC for a few years.

When my son was 8 I tried to get him into RC, but he was hesitant, so I found a local free flight club and took him along to check it out. We spent 4 great years flying with the group, the highlight was when we entered a "skeeter" contest and lost.... When our plane got sucked into a boomer and we lost sight of it as it was climbing through a hole in the clouds!

After I retired I started getting my old planes out and joined the only local club... A year later I was flying outlaw, mainly because of my experience in the club. (see how I brought this back on subject). We had our big four, except it was more like the big 8. They all worshiped big (expensive) planes and the guys that flew them. At this time I discovered park flyers and quit the club. I built a few GWS kits, but wanted more so opened up my plans box and started scratching up planes. The free-flight experience was a great help as it had taught me how to build light.

I guess what all this rambling is about is: This is a great hobby with many facets, each being different, but all related. If you truly have the "bug", use what resources are available to you. If club bullies have something they can and are willing to teach you stay until you learn what you can and then move on. I have found in life, as in our hobby, everyone I bump into has something they can teach me, if I can just suppress my ego long enough to learn from them.

Joe Lang
10-08-2006, 04:49 PM
Ron

It's funny how this hobby goes. I built and crashed a U-control plane when I was 12. I was 33 (not 30 as I posted earlier) the next time I built a plane, a Gentle Lady. The man who gave me the kit taught me how to fly it. I then went into powered RC. When I moved up to a remote town on the northern California coast I got into U-control with a bunch of town kids that needed something to do. I was still flying powered and gliders, but after a couple more moves and for family reasons I didn't build or fly RC for a few years.

When my son was 8 I tried to get him into RC, but he was hesitant, so I found a local free flight club and took him along to check it out. We spent 4 great years flying with the group, the highlight was when we entered a "skeeter" contest and lost.... When our plane got sucked into a boomer and we lost sight of it as it was climbing through a hole in the clouds!

After I retired I started getting my old planes out and joined the only local club... A year later I was flying outlaw, mainly because of my experience in the club. (see how I brought this back on subject). We had our big four, except it was more like the big 8. They all worshiped big (expensive) planes and the guys that flew them. At this time I discovered park flyers and quit the club. I built a few GWS kits, but wanted more so opened up my plans box and started scratching up planes. The free-flight experience was a great help as it had taught me how to build light.

I guess what all this rambling is about is: This is a great hobby with many facets, each being different, but all related. If you truly have the "bug", use what resources are available to you. If club bullies have something they can and are willing to teach you stay until you learn what you can and then move on. I have found in life, as in our hobby, everyone I bump into has something they can teach me, if I can just suppress my ego long enough to learn from them.

As in most of life there are takers and there are givers.

rahtware
10-09-2006, 02:50 AM
As in most of life there are takers and there are givers.

Hey Joe.... What's up, have you read all the post since your last, or you just dropping by for a cheap shot.

rahtware
10-18-2006, 06:26 PM
To paraphrase Will Rogers, I decided to walk in the moccasins of the pro-club guys.

During a visit to Portland I decided to drop by McMinnville to check out a local club that I had heard great things about. I drove to Harris field, the home of the “McMinnville Aircraft Modelers” on a foggy Saturday morning The fog and cold limited the amount of flyers, but still three guys, Noel, Nick and Ron showed up. My experience with “official” clubs in the past has been negative so I was surprised by the friendly welcome.

The field was beautifully setup and maintained. I could tell that these flyers enjoyed getting together and flying. Nick was having trouble with an engine that was mounted “inverted” in a plane. Ron stopped what he was doing and spent time with Nick until his plane was tuned and flying, the camaraderie was impressive.

Due to the weather the guys didn’t stay long. As everyone was packing up to leave, Noel invited me to see his collection of “old” RC equipment. I was not prepared for what I saw. This is an amazing collection that is hard to describe, but it is the first time that I was in the presence of an original Good brothers radio! Noel’s knowledge of the history of our hobby is endless. If I lived within a hundred miles of this club I would do all jI could to become a member.

Broken Balsa
10-18-2006, 06:36 PM
It makes me feel good to recieve your post. I know there are always a few who can spoil it for all (I don't think they set out to do this and may not relize they are) but when we look for the good its always there someplace. I don't know where you live exactly but there is also a good club in Turner S.E. of Salem, and while I have not visited the club in Albany for quite some time they have always had a great club. Thanks for your come back and I hope you will always injoy our great hobby....Ron

AEAJR
10-18-2006, 10:22 PM
If I lived within a hundred miles of this club I would do all jI could to become a member.\

Glad you finally had the great experience that many of us associate with the club experience.

I have to keep reminding myself that clubs are made of people and some people are great and some are not. Depending on who you meet on any given day, you may walk away with a positive experience or a negative one. Like people in a party, some you enjoy speaking with and some you don't.

Glad you found some good ones.

debhicks
10-26-2006, 12:39 PM
I wanted to spread this word around for those who aren't or are and didn't hear yet. Two programs the AMA have in place to interest people to join. The free buddy box with your new membership. And the Ambassedor program. Full memberships can qualify for free dues or credit at the AMA store (life members) for signing up new membership.



New Buddy Box Program

Thanks to AMA, any new adult member can receive a buddy box with a new membership!

Get your buddy started right! Recommend your friend join AMA, and along with a new AMA membership he or she will receive a free JR or Airtronics buddy-box transmitter. ($7.95 shipping and handling applies)

You'll put an end to the "who's got the buddy box?" syndrome, along with all the hassle of setting trims and checking servo direction, because now your buddy will have his or her own buddy-box unit. The time saved fiddling can be used for what he or she wants the most: stick time!

Supported by JR and Airtronics, this is a great deal for both of you. And don't forget about AMA's Ambassador Program (http://www.modelaircraft.org/ambassador.asp): sign up three new members and your next membership will be at no charge!

tww1fa
12-24-2006, 03:13 AM
I learned to fly on my own about three years ago. I went to my LHS, picked up a Futaba T6EXA, an E-Starter, a charger, a GWS flight pack and some batteries and adhesives. Then before I even took the E-Starter out of the box I found RCG and immediately went back to the LHS for a Slow Stick :)

There's a small park within walking distance of my home. The area of the park is divided into two sections - the "front section" is neatly mowed and sprinkled grass with trees, a couple grills and a small playground. This is the area that is used by the afternoon soccer players. The "back section" is unimproved - just dirt and grass, mowed a lot less often than the front section. This area, about 200 yards by 150 yards, is pretty much unused and is perfect for flying (except for ROG.)

That said, I'm a member of a club (Sacramento Valley Soaring Society) and the AMA. Why? A few reasons:

- I want AMA insurance. Although I try to be very careful when I fly, accidents do happen.
- I feel the AMA has done good things for the hobby. I don't think the hobby would be where it is without the AMA.
- I want to be able to fly larger/faster planes than would fit safely in the park area.
- I want to fly sailplanes.
- Belonging to a group is fun.

The SVSS has an awesome field about 20 miles from my house. It's set in a 320 acre regional park, with a shade structure, a mowed and maintained landing area and a mowed launch area. Around those 320 acres is farmland. They have two winches for sailplane launches and they're always ready to help you get your plane into the air if you're unfamiliar with using a winch. Due to environmental restrictions, they only allow sailplanes and electrics, but electrics are welcome. Since there's so much space, electrics and sailplanes can coexist with little to no problems. The people in the club are great as well. They went out of their way to make me feel welcome and to help me get my first sailplane into the air. One member even lent me the controls of his Oly II and helped me find my first thermal!

I expect that clubs are somewhat like people - there are good ones and there are bad ones. I lucked into a good one. Does this mean that I'm always going to go to the club field to fly? No - some days I'll just take the Slow Stick or Carbon Falcon over to the park and spend a half hour tooling around the sky. But when I want to go past that, I've got a place to go.

Airhead
01-01-2007, 02:25 AM
I have joined the AMA last week, and sent an e-mail to a local club. I had read about no reply e-mails that were sent to particular clubs on this thread. After about 4 or 5 days I received and e-mail from the pres. of the club answering some of my questions. Electric aircraft are welcome as is any RC aircraft. Not an additional fee for an instructor. So, this sure sounds like a good start for me. :)

Airhead
01-01-2007, 02:30 AM
hello debhicks,

When I joined last week I did not know what the Buddy Box was or how much it would cost. Its just my lack of knowledge.:o

Bruce

debhicks
01-01-2007, 02:33 PM
Sorry about that. Well you may read and find out you can still get it. Not sure. Welcome and enjoy the hobby.

AEAJR
01-01-2007, 04:32 PM
Trainer Cords.

Clearly if you get a buddy box you are going to need a trainer cord to connect the radios. Connecting JR to JR and Airtronics to Airtronics is easy. Likewise any to like radios is easy but what if you have dissimilar brands, can you mix them? In many cases, yes.

I have Futaba and Hitec radios and have used the Futaba as instructor and the Hitec as student with no problems. Hitec and Futaba proivde guidelines as to which cord to use.

If your instructor has a Futaba radio and you have one of the JR Buddy boxes, you can still link up:
http://www.hangar-9.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=HAN173
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdId=HAN173

Here is a source for trainer cords and cross brand adapters:
http://www.tti-us.com/sim/prod-buddy.html

Airhead
01-03-2007, 04:02 AM
Thanks,
:D

Bruce

Airhead
01-26-2007, 09:08 PM
Guess what guys,

I have found 2 more clubs here in town. I found them on rcg. One is a glider club that does allow electrics. Slower electrics that is, which is fine with me..

gsk11740
01-26-2007, 09:16 PM
Well, I tried out one of two clubs in my area the other night. Went to one of the meetings.

I was basically completely ignored.

Oh well. There's another club locally. Their next meeting is in February and their flying field is closer anyway. Hopefully, I'll do better there! I'm not giving up.

DickCorby
01-26-2007, 10:34 PM
Well, I tried out one of two clubs in my area the other night. Went to one of the meetings.

I was basically completely ignored.

Oh well. There's another club locally. Their next meeting is in February and their flying field is closer anyway. Hopefully, I'll do better there! I'm not giving up.

I can identify with both your feelings, and the club's indifference. At many meetings our club has pressing matters to handle, and do forget to recognize the new guys. It is perhaps better to catch the members at the flying field where they are not under pressure to get club business handled.

Not a good excuse, but it might be the case. You just caught them at a critical meeting perhaps.

AEAJR
01-26-2007, 11:15 PM
Well, I tried out one of two clubs in my area the other night. Went to one of the meetings.

I was basically completely ignored.

Oh well. There's another club locally. Their next meeting is in February and their flying field is closer anyway. Hopefully, I'll do better there! I'm not giving up.

Are you saying you walked into a meeting, did not introduce yourself to anyone and no one bothered you? And the problem with that would be.. what?

If you came to our meeting and wanted to sit in the back and observe, we would have no problem with that. Our meetings are open to the public.

After the meeting, when you walked up to one of the officers, introduced yourself and mentioned that you might be interested in joining, what did he say?

gsk11740
01-26-2007, 11:49 PM
I can identify with both your feelings, and the club's indifference. At many meetings our club has pressing matters to handle, and do forget to recognize the new guys. It is perhaps better to catch the members at the flying field where they are not under pressure to get club business handled.

Not a good excuse, but it might be the case. You just caught them at a critical meeting perhaps.

I probably did catch them at a bad time. They were starting to get rather "intense" over a club picnic they were planning. I did attempt to talk to several members after the meeting but didn't get the sense that they were really all that interested in talking with me.

Are you saying you walked into a meeting, did not introduce yourself to anyone and no one bothered you? And the problem with that would be.. what?

If you came to our meeting and wanted to sit in the back and observe, we would have no problem with that. Our meetings are open to the public.

After the meeting, when you walked up to one of the officers, introduced yourself and mentioned that you might be interested in joining, what did he say?

I walked into the meeting right as it started so I didn't get a chance to introduce myself other than to the two guys sitting on each side of me. As I mentioned, I did try to talk with some of the members after the meeting and told them I might be interested in joining. I got no reply other than one guy kind of mumbled something. The officers themselves seemed to be involved in their own "private" meeting after the main meeting was over so I didn't get a chance to talk with any of them.

Frankly, I didn't feel very comfortable with them either, after everyone left. Maybe it just wasn't a good match and better that I not try to join that particular club. No problem. Like I said, I'm not giving up. I have another, much larger club that I'm looking into. Probably should have gone there first. As Dick Corby suggested, I'll try to catch them at their flying field rather than a club meeting. Might work better.

rahtware
01-27-2007, 08:38 AM
:mad:Too busy to greet a new guy??:mad:

That club must have alot of very impotent members...:D

AEAJR
01-27-2007, 03:06 PM
Frankly, I didn't feel very comfortable with them either, after everyone left. Maybe it just wasn't a good match and better that I not try to join that particular club. No problem. Like I said, I'm not giving up. I have another, much larger club that I'm looking into. Probably should have gone there first. As Dick Corby suggested, I'll try to catch them at their flying field rather than a club meeting. Might work better.

Well, you gotta go with your gut. If it didn't feel right, then maybe it wasn't right. I would suggest you visit the field and try to observe them flying.

Also, some clubs only admit new members who have a sponsor, a club member who recommends them. Not sure how wide spread that is, but that could be the case here.

In any case, I am glad you will check out the other club. I know I visited one club that was cold and nasty. I joined the second where I learned and grew. Now I am an officer.

Good luck with your search.

Don Sims
01-27-2007, 03:37 PM
I agree with Ed, go with your gut. Fortunately there are two excellent clubs about an hour away from here in Jackson, TN. Both clubs have excellent members who make me feel welcome whenever I mooch off them and fly at their fields. Several people belong to both clubs while many chose one over the other to support. Since I can fly at home anytime and don't get out much, I don't belong to either but do my best to attend and support their fly-ins.

raptor-9
01-27-2007, 04:26 PM
I think you all have a point,some clubs are far,some club members are as****le,and put you off-but you also find good guys too!-some of us here seem they have fields,parks,woods,playgrounds, allaround!,which for that little daily fly(drain a battrey or two),OR, training is verry good!-BUT one has to mix with others to know how good or less good he is.Not to say that at this point,you are flying at your own risk!!....AT Clubs you get meetings & competitions,Ideas,& sometimes you can buy or sell somthing!
....... I think everybody should be in & participate in a R/C Club.

50+AirYears
01-31-2007, 12:26 AM
Sometimes, when I read some of the experiences some people report on in connection with their attempts to join a club, I remember a couple posts on one of the first websites I started getting involved with.
The poster started talking about how he was first ignored, then how the A**H**s were so negative. How they were always down on the kind of model he wanted to fly. Their cliquishness. All the problems he had with the members.
My eyes sort of bugged out when he mentioned the name of the club. I have now been a member of this club for nearly 30 years, and an oficer for over 15. Had I not been in this club, and been looking for a club to join, based on what he was saying I wouldn't have even looked into joining. I just couldn't recognize the club from his descriptiion, nor could other members who had the opportunity to read his posts.
Reading more of his posts for a few months, I started to feel I knew the person. Later, I ran into him at an LHS, and found out I was right. This fomer member DID have problems with other club members. Members who objected to things like his ignoring frequency control, flying over the pits, drinking while flying, even buzzing people who were on the runway or out in the field to recover a plane that was no longer running or had stopped flying from unexpected ground contact. A true outlaw.
I'm not saying this is the type of person who has posted here about their problems with any given club. I've visited other clubs where the greeting depended on which group of members was there at the time, or which individuals happened to be the first ones you talked to.
A lot of our members do have reservations about electrics. Some of them from unsucsessful attempts they made in the 70s and early 80s. Some are, or rather were, down on electrics from all the cheap underpowered discount store c**p people have bought their kids and then brought out to our field expecting us to perform miracles and get the "plane" to fly like ours do. Some of the members still have problems with helicopter pilots for similar reasons.
A lot of this attitude changed when I started flying a Goldberg Mirage. A number of members eventually got back interested in trying electrics again. There is an increasing number of members who are flying electric now.
A club is a group of people with a shared interest. Like any group of people, there will be people who get along with, or at least try to get along with, everybody else. There will be people who have trouble getting along with people with slightly different opinions on things, or different politics, or even different race or religion. Then there are also people who can't get along with anybody. In 2005, we had to vote a person of this type out of the club. But, all these types of people are part of the human experience. No way around it. You just have to put up with the differences and do the best job you can getting through life.
Why join a club? To maximize the enjoyment inherent in socializing with people of a common interest, increase your exposure and learning so you can improve your abilities and competency in that interest, and to get the added enjoyment that comes from helping others to maximize their own knowledge, enjoyment, and circle of friends.

debhicks
01-31-2007, 01:07 PM
Being a member of 3 clubs and an officer in one, I can truthfully say that all have good points and bad points. It seems odd to me that in a hobby that is supposed to be fun that such hate and discontent can happen. It is sad, however there is something to be learned from all aspects. How to do stuff, how not to do stuff and what needs to stay the same and what needs to be changed.

You or I cannot go into a club unless it is a start-up and change the world to a group who have been doing things "that way" unless it is proved to be unsafe. If it's unsafe or can compomise safety, I can attest to the fact that a life is not worth flying or acting unsafe in a group setting. Take your toy and go home. Be mad and we already know that the words will fly as to how unfair and mean and hateful and unwilling to accept your ways on the field.

But it's in all clubs to some degree. Even in civic clubs. You can only hope that collectively that there really are adults around and look at things as grown adults should and think it out and get it resolved for the better of the club.

If it doesn't then the club will not stay viable unless the few take on the financial responsibility. That group will be either the ones causing the hate because they think they will loose control of something they view as theirs instead of a group effort or those who are looking at the group effort and meld together to make a good club.

I can think of a shining example of a club that melds together with only a few doing the work, visit the Triple Tree facility in South Carolina. See what group cooperation will get you. But you will have to understand the class of people that operate that club and host the events that go on there.

Remember life is a lesson. Group interaction has never been easy, it is how you personnally deal with it and what you learn from it that molds your character. Something to which you are responsible for not those around you. It's sort of like your fist day at school. Give it a little time and you will pair off with someone and start to have fun. Unless of course being around you is uncomfortable for others. Something some of us seem to overlook in stressful situations.

As you know if you have read this thread I am super passionate about clubs and involvment because with out them good and bad the hobby would not be where it's at today and probably have been outlawed a long time ago. Go out, be positive and give something to the hobby and see what the return may be. Never be afraid or miss the self evaluation and see why things went the way they did. Afterall, you are only in control of what, when, how and who you are.

50+AirYears
01-31-2007, 04:11 PM
The sad thing is, most of the problems we see with clubs is not restricted to our sport. They are becoming more common in all kinds of social and special interest groups. Many of my home town's older Nationality clubs and social clubs are having the same problems. Many have been closing because of the same types of situations. Inflexibility on all sides, and a "I pay my dues, why should I contribute anything more?" attitude. Even one of the local Masononic lodges lost a very impressive building because of lack of contribution and participation by much of the membership. In fact, when they moved to a newer smaller site, only 3 or 4 members, assisted by a few non-Masonic friends, moved the equipment and furniture. Even they couldn't get much interest in actually doing anything from other members. Oh, but they have no problem getting people to attend social events, as long as someone else does the work.

rahtware
01-31-2007, 09:41 PM
I always wondered how the first day of school was for girls... For me, as a guy, it was a case of dodging bullies or pocking the biggest one in the nose just so I would be left alone!:D

As to your "character" building statement; Character has many aspects. As I have come to understand, standing buy and letting the bullies chase others around (or out of the club) makes one a partner to that action. A person of character has a responsibility to themselves and others to stand up to the bullies in this life.

To be fair, (to the bullies) if they set up their club as a private good old boys club, then what is wrong with them live in their mean little world? Nothing, as long as their meanness doesen't impact others!

It is when their meanness affects me that I get upset. Like the case posted about the local RC bully going to the city to shut down public owned fields so no one could fly. At that point I am ready to "poke someone in the nose.":mad:


...Remember life is a lesson. Group interaction has never been easy, it is how you personnally deal with it and what you learn from it that molds your character. Something to which you are responsible for not those around you. It's sort of like your fist day at school. Give it a little time and you will pair off with someone and start to have fun. Unless of course being around you is uncomfortable for others. Something some of us seem to overlook in stressful situations.

debhicks
02-01-2007, 01:20 AM
Oh I hated the cliquish attitude all through school and do my best not to portray that to anyone interested in any organization. You can tell by my sig block I am pretty involved in a few areas of civic organizations. I just say can't we all just get along? :)

Cheers

Silverhawk
02-07-2007, 05:09 PM
I used to belong to a club but was kicked out along with 6 of the officers. I was quite active and the first person to fly and promote electrics. I have flown in competition at the Nats in electric.

I was against people flying in the manner that 50+ mentioned and was vocal about it but some individuals are just "special" I guess. Our "group" promoted activities like sailplane only times, one design pylon races against the neighboring club, and other things to get members more involved on off nights or off hours. Those events were met with resistance because it took away from the time that the other club members suddenly wanted to fly during. I now am selling off most of my stuff since I have no field except a park and my backyard and I work 2nd shift.

The posts are right that mention the social aspects of the sport. We flew together, laughed together at the "duh" things, and cried together at the loses. I now don't have that comraderie and it's just a case of going thru the motions even though I still love the sport. I'm going to go back to shooting at the sportsmans club. They don't care if it's big or little, expensive or shoestring, and all disiplines are respected and accepted if you get my drift.

Those of you who don't have a club don't know what you're missing. If you fly with a friend or two at a park you DO have a club whether you want to believe it or not. Sorry if I'm blithering.

Man IS a social animal.

Keep 'em hummin'

50+AirYears
02-07-2007, 06:03 PM
What's kind of funny about clubs, in my area, is that we have two neighboring clubs, but while members of both our clubs have multiple memberships in other local groups, there are very few who belong to both our clubs.

Most of the members of the other club don't like our rules structure, citing it as too restrictive. We also have very little structured semi-competition. We are very informal.

Many of our members, on the other hand, won't join the other club because of the percieved cliqueshness, the almost demand that members participate in things like one-design events, that only certain equipment is allowable, and also some apparent lack of common sense things like flying over pits, shot-rod flying almost against the flight line barricades, and on one o9ccassion, the president of the other club being applauded for flying formation with a J-3 that was on approach for a landing at a private farm strip near the club field.

It's funny that some of the other club members can't understand why they have been kicked out of something like 5 fields in the last 30 years, while our club is on their second field in almost 50 years. We lost our previous field because of a developer moving in and buying out the field and all adjacent farm land.

There is a famous saying "It takes all kinds".

On the

DIALED/CHUCK
02-07-2007, 06:40 PM
I belonged to a club for a year...but because of geography, an hour to the field was tough. They were great! Newport News RC Club. Lots of like minded guys all just wanting a good time. (course, the few know it alls like at any field and the old guy who never flies a plane and just shows up to tell you when he thinks you are unsafe...but every club needs a few of those...keeps it safe)

There is another AMA field closer...but it is one of those 'Fly Glow or Go Home' type of crowds who think "Electrics cant break 100mph" "Them thar Li-per-batteries er dangerous" and "We godda sercrut handshake n treat ya like dirt until we figure out you can either git us stuff fer free er buy one of er old airplanes from us".

Thats when me and a friend formed the 'H.B.A.T.'

"The Hill-Billy Aeromodelers of Tidewater"

http://www.chuckandjenna.com/hbat/hbat.jpg

Our by-laws are:
1. Have fun
2. Fly Safe
3. Seek to get others involved.
4. Treat all flyers as needed, respected brethren
5. Have fun.


We have no meetings, no field, are not yet AMA recognized...but we have a blast.

"Find your own groove and groove with it"

--C

Twizter68
02-07-2007, 07:11 PM
You forgot #6- In case you forgot, refer to rules 1 and 5

Tinman
02-08-2007, 07:23 PM
Thats great Chuck!

its my kind of club!!!

Airhead
02-09-2007, 05:38 AM
Hey Chuck,

Where do I sign up??? I may fit right in..;)

DIALED/CHUCK
02-09-2007, 06:22 AM
Welcome to the H.B.A.T.!

Brother Twiz, get the ink and prepare the indoctrinization ceremony.

--C

stevecooper
02-09-2007, 06:44 AM
Dailed/chuck::::Dear Brethren,,,count us in, MAULETT MAURODERS we support your club !!!!!!

Airhead
02-09-2007, 08:31 AM
Good morning Stevecooper,
May I join your club too...I definately relate to all of your club pictures..
I think they are GREAT!!:D

stevecooper
02-10-2007, 01:02 AM
Airhead::: YOUR- IN!!!!!!!!!!! The dues were nothng before but now the've dub'bulled to two nothin's but everythings go'in up!!!:rolleyes:your bub, steve

Airhead
02-10-2007, 05:40 AM
THANKS BUB...eh

by the way, You have posted some awesome pictures..:)

Grasshopper
02-10-2007, 05:43 AM
Well, I joined a local club and AMA today. Our offices at work moved last week and the local club flying field is just across the road from my office. Hopefully now I can go over and fly on my lunch hours. The field is litterally about 300 yards from my office. I asked the club contact (which just happens to be the guy who taught me on my first RC plane over 20 years ago) if they had any issues with me being total electric. He said heck no, as long as you fly and enjoy it, you are welcome. Of course you have to be an AMA member to fly but that's OK too.

Club fees per year...........$25
AMA dues per year..........$58
Being able to fly every nice day at noon.....Priceless!

firemanbill
02-10-2007, 05:48 AM
Well, I joined a local club and AMA today. Our offices at work moved last week and the local club flying field is just across the road from my office. Hopefully now I can go over and fly on my lunch hours. The field is litterally about 300 yards from my office. I asked the club contact (which just happens to be the guy who taught me on my first RC plane over 20 years ago) if they had any issues with me being total electric. He said heck no, as long as you fly and enjoy it, you are welcome. Of course you have to be an AMA member to fly but that's OK too.

Club fees per year...........$25
AMA dues per year..........$58
Being able to fly every nice day at noon.....Priceless!

You area a lucky man Tom!

And you say I have all the luck...:rolleyes:

Glad it all worked out for ya Bud!:D

Grasshopper
02-10-2007, 06:00 AM
Thanks Bill!

50+AirYears
02-11-2007, 06:49 PM
I used to be able to stop at a local Mickie D's drive through, grab a bite, and be unloading a plane withing 10 minutes on my lunch break, but thanks to a developer buying out a couple hundred acres of farm land, it now takes me15 to 20 minutes without a lunch stop to get to my nearest useable field, unless I just fly my Blade Cx in our meeting area.
We also went from $50.00 + 58.00 at the old field to $75.00 + $58.00. Of course, I take advantage of the discount for the 2 year AMA renewal, and a $10.00 discount through the club for being over 62.

stevecooper
02-15-2007, 12:32 AM
My last club meet'in ever!!!!ya'lls' bub, steve

Airhead
02-15-2007, 01:34 AM
Well, I joined a local club and AMA today. Our offices at work moved last week and the local club flying field is just across the road from my office. Hopefully now I can go over and fly on my lunch hours. The field is litterally about 300 yards from my office. I asked the club contact (which just happens to be the guy who taught me on my first RC plane over 20 years ago) if they had any issues with me being total electric. He said heck no, as long as you fly and enjoy it, you are welcome. Of course you have to be an AMA member to fly but that's OK too.

Club fees per year...........$25
AMA dues per year..........$58
Being able to fly every nice day at noon.....Priceless!
Tom,
Sounds excellent!!:)
Good for you..Have fun!