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View Full Version : My Conversions - gas to Electric


DickCorby
11-11-2005, 07:38 AM
I am using the following motors on the planes rated for gas, and all fly well, none are underpowered for their type, and some are awesome flyers. Might help some folks to make their motor and battery choices.

.049 glow = AXI 2208/26 3S-1P 1030 Pack 6/5 folding prop - 1 Lb.
.15 glow = AXI 2808/24 3S-2P 2000 MAH pack 10/6 E prop - 2 Lb
.25 Glow = AXI 2826/12 3S-1P 3100 MAH pack 14/7 E prop - 3.5 Lb.
.40 Glow = AXI 2826/10 4S-2P 5000 MAH pack 13.6.5 Prop - 5 Lb.
.52 Glow = AXI 4120/14 4S2P 6000 MAH Pack 16/8 Prop - 6.7 Lb
.60 Glow = AXI 4130/16 5S-2P 5000 MAH Pack 18/8 Prop - 8 Lb.
1.2 Glow = AXI 5320/18 9S-2P 6000 MAH Pack 19/8 Prop - 10.6 Lb

Mike Wizynajtys
11-11-2005, 09:51 PM
I'll add one.

.90/1.00 glow = Hacker C50-10XL, 8S3P 6000 Mah pack, APC 18x10E prop- 8 lb plane. Balistic performance!

Wiz

debhicks
11-11-2005, 10:12 PM
MMM perhaps we should go to his house and just drool :)

DickCorby
11-11-2005, 10:18 PM
Whats really neat is that over half the planes are over 2 years old and still flying like the first day, or the first day after I got them trimmed to my liking. My Viking was built in 1994 and is still alive and well. Upgraded it with lighting last year and fly it at night now.

Electrics seem to last longer if you don't get dumb thumbed. I have only lost 4 planes in the last 2-3 years. All dumb thumbs. Except one where somebody turned on in the pits and shot me down.

I really like to grab a couple of planes and my battery box, and head for the field on a moments notice and fly with no muss no fuss.

debhicks
11-11-2005, 10:24 PM
I think Foam has a lot to do with the lasting part. But it does seem that electric last longer. That is a bonus!!:)

I have wore out one SoarStar and have another. We have been flying a shockflyer for a year and a half same motor and just sold the motor off it because we can no longer get em. We'll build another one and put an outrunner on it and see if we like it.

And just for grins we take an aerobird challenger with us when it's too windy to fly the shock flyer we take that up. It soars well and it's fun to see people see us fly it. Sometimes back to the basics is just all you need.

Nothing high powered yet. Not sure if my glow husband is ready for that conversion. Got to get the battery cost down a little more. Some of those batteries will put you in cardiac arrest. And I want to keep him around for a while. He has to help me run the store. ;)

DickCorby
11-11-2005, 10:49 PM
I think Foam has a lot to do with the lasting part. But it does seem that electric last longer. That is a bonus!!:)

I have wore out one SoarStar and have another. We have been flying a shockflyer for a year and a half same motor and just sold the motor off it because we can no longer get em. We'll build another one and put an outrunner on it and see if we like it.

And just for grins we take an aerobird challenger with us when it's too windy to fly the shock flyer we take that up. It soars well and it's fun to see people see us fly it. Sometimes back to the basics is just all you need.

Nothing high powered yet. Not sure if my glow husband is ready for that conversion. Got to get the battery cost down a little more. Some of those batteries will put you in cardiac arrest. And I want to keep him around for a while. He has to help me run the store. ;)

None of my planes are foam. All are built from balsa kits, or ARF's for the larger ones. My favorite is the Ultra-RC Fiberglass Yak-54. I like planes that look like the real thing.
The 72 inch QuiQue Signature Series Yak is the one that got shot down 3 minutes into a perfect maiden flight. Fortunately I found another of these rare birds, and will be building it again in the near future.

scarpogre
11-13-2005, 10:40 AM
Could you elaborate on your setup/conversion of the ultra-rc Yak-54. I have one on order and am planning on using an axi 4130/16 on a 6s kokam 3200.

thanks for any help

DickCorby
11-13-2005, 06:05 PM
Here's My setup. Used on the first one that got dumb thumbed, and works as good on this one.

Ultra RC Fiberglass Yak 54
Specifications:
AXI 4120/14 Motor
Castle Creations Pheonix 80 Speed Control
APC 16/8 E Prop
Dymond Modelsports 4S-2P 6000MAH Battery
FMA FS8 Receiver
FMA Power Force Votage Regulator
Hitec Optic 6 Transmitter
4 HS 645MG Servos
Static Weight 107 Oz.
Static Thrust 109 Oz
Static Watts 730
Watts/Lb 109
Static Current 55 Amps

The plane is a bit overweight, but seems to handle it well enough. Fiberglass planes do tend to come out a bit heavier overall. So I suggest keeping the Electronics and power plant as light as possible.

qban_flyer
11-13-2005, 06:52 PM
I am using the following motors on the planes rated for gas, and all fly well, none are underpowered for their type, and some are awesome flyers. Might help some folks to make their motor and battery choices.

.049 glow = AXI 2208/26 3S-1P 1030 Pack 6/5 folding prop - 1 Lb.
.15 glow = AXI 2808/24 3S-2P 2000 MAH pack 10/6 E prop - 2 Lb
.25 Glow = AXI 2826/12 3S-1P 3100 MAH pack 14/7 E prop - 3.5 Lb.
.40 Glow = AXI 2826/10 4S-2P 5000 MAH pack 13.6.5 Prop - 5 Lb.
.52 Glow = AXI 4120/14 4S2P 6000 MAH Pack 16/8 Prop - 6.7 Lb
.60 Glow = AXI 4130/16 5S-2P 5000 MAH Pack 18/8 Prop - 8 Lb.
1.2 Glow = AXI 5320/18 9S-2P 6000 MAH Pack 19/8 Prop - 10.6 Lb

Well done!

I have copied and pasted your data to one of my PC E-Folders.

Thanks :)

Dereck
11-15-2005, 02:04 AM
My favourite lump is a Hacker B50 13S with 6.7:1 gearing. This has powered a Four Star 40 (now over five years old, flown on four different motors, awaiting yet another rebuild/recover) on 16 cells and an APC-E 15 x 10 and my own design 54" span "E-Rotica" pattern ship (it's largely a large scale model of a French FAI pattern ship) on 14 cells and a 14 x 12 APC-E drawing around 45A. This suggests the equivalency of a 46- 60 twobanger, or maybe its nearer to a real good 70 fourpopper.

The Four Star flew at a little under 6lb, E-Rotica is about 5.25lb - performance of both could be described as "Adequate :)".

The latter definitely proved that the cheapest performance upgrade available is a lighter model!

D

DickCorby
11-15-2005, 02:43 AM
Could you elaborate on your setup/conversion of the ultra-rc Yak-54. I have one on order and am planning on using an axi 4130/16 on a 6s kokam 3200.

thanks for any help

I think the 4130 will be a little much for the Ultra RC Yak. The battery load might increase the wing loading to the point that it won't fly well. I'm using a 4130 on my Corby Starlet, and 5s-2P 5000 MAH pack, and it's pretty heavy, 8 Lbs.

The 4120 runs pretty powerful on 4S-2P 6000 MAh packs. and the 6.5 lb Ultra flies great.

Mike Parsons
11-15-2005, 03:58 PM
50CC:
Good = Axi 5330/18, 10S3P, Jeti 90, 20X12 : 15.75 lb @ 130 w/lb
Better = Hacker C50 15XL, 10S 3P, Jeti 90, 21x12 : 14.5lb @ 142 w/lb
Best = Cyclon Twin, 16S3P, (2) CC110 HV, 24x12 = 15.25lb @ 320 w/lb

DickCorby
11-15-2005, 05:26 PM
50CC:
Good = Axi 5330/18, 10S3P, Jeti 90, 20X12 : 15.75 lb @ 130 w/lb
Better = Hacker C50 15XL, 10S 3P, Jeti 90, 21x12 : 14.5lb @ 142 w/lb
Best = Cyclon Twin, 16S3P, (2) CC110 HV, 24x12 = 15.25lb @ 320 w/lb

My QQ 72" inch Yak 54 came in at 10.8 lbs, flew on the 5330/18 with a 19 inch prop, 140 Watts/lb, and was an awsome plane. The lighter weight must have contributed. Next one will have 9S-2P 6000 Pack, and swing a 20 inch prop.

I want to stay at 9S on packs due to having to have 2 batteries and a very expensive charger to handle anything more than 9S. My Astro will handle 9S and 5-6 AMP charge easily, and only has to have one battery source.

Mike Parsons
11-15-2005, 05:39 PM
I think you are right that the lower weight helped. All three motors I listed for 50CC were used in an 87" Extremeflightrc Yak-54, but only the Cyclon was mine. The others were from contributed data.

Is your 9S built as one pack? I am at the point that I want to stay with two packs no matter what the config and preferably in even numbers, 6S, 8S, 10S. I have two Astro 109's so charging 2 packs is manageable.

-Mike

Mike Wizynajtys
11-15-2005, 05:55 PM
How much do the twin Cyclons cost?

DickCorby
11-15-2005, 06:09 PM
I think you are right that the lower weight helped. All three motors I listed for 50CC were used in an 87" Extremeflightrc Yak-54, but only the Cyclon was mine. The others were from contributed data.

Is your 9S built as one pack? I am at the point that I want to stay with two packs no matter what the config and preferably in even numbers, 6S, 8S, 10S. I have two Astro 109's so charging 2 packs is manageable.

-Mike

I have taken 2 3000 MAH 8 cell packs - (prebuilt), and added one cell in series to make the 9S.

The Astro wont charge above 9S and 9Amps. It's not the charger thats the real problem when you go above 9S. Its the input voltage to the charger has to exceed what 1 automobile battery can put out. And I'm lucky to get 2 charges a day at the 5+ Amps for an hour out of a CAr Battery. Lucky we have Electricity at the flying field so I can use my Power Supply.

There are some chargers available from Europe that will go above 20S, but they cost in the range of $500, and need 2 Car batteries in series for their power. Or a Power Supply that can put out in the range of 20-24 Volts and pretty good current. The guys flying the big IMAC planes are using these chargers.

Mike Parsons
11-15-2005, 06:46 PM
How much do the twin Cyclons cost?
They are $674.00 for the entire rig.
http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=5701

It is pretty cost comparitive when comparing dual motor systems, but the lack of GB and thus zero maintenance more than makes up for it.


The Astro wont charge above 9S and 9Amps. It's not the charger thats the real problem when you go above 9S. Its the input voltage to the charger has to exceed what 1 automobile battery can put out. And I'm lucky to get 2 charges a day at the 5+ Amps for an hour out of a CAr Battery. Lucky we have Electricity at the flying field so I can use my Power Supply.

There are some chargers available from Europe that will go above 20S, but they cost in the range of $500, and need 2 Car batteries in series for their power. Or a Power Supply that can put out in the range of 20-24 Volts and pretty good current. The guys flying the big IMAC planes are using these chargers.
I charge with a 115ah deep cycle Marine battery. It holds up pretty well unless I try and charge all four 4S3P's at once. It then bogs down near the end of the charge. It usually is good for two charges for the 4- 4S3P's and then will last the rest of the day for my smaller 3S and 2S packs.

I do wish we had electricity at our field as that would simplify things, but I doubt it would ever happen.

-Mike

ragbag
11-20-2005, 01:30 PM
I'm not into anything as big as ya'll are doing. Not yet.:)

Would some of the forklift batteries like they had a SEFF work?

All I saw was pictures of them on a pallet in one of the magazines. Missed SEFF this year.

I think that the batteries in the tractor trailers and I guess the fork lifts are deep cycle.

By George

Dereck
11-21-2005, 10:33 PM
Now, if the same people who brought you (in the biblical sense) four of Hacker's biggest lashed onto one propshaft and LiPos that cost about the GNP of a small banana republic could come up with a charger that connected to a Toyota Prius, we could be charging with (minimal) gas.

Not only would it be an ideal and 'green' charging source of considerable capacity, it would be possible to have it driven between meetings by one's "little man" - seeing as it is unlikely that a Prius could be fitted into, say, the family Learjet for speedy transportation :rolleyes:

I've never actually thought about it, but all my models can be back-plotted from a large, agricultural looking but tolerably affordable (to me, who else do I worry over? :) ) deep cycle lead-acid battery. If that won't hack it, I soon lose interest in further investigation of how much will the NEW! BIGGER! EXCITING! model cost me.

Regards

Dereck

Mike Wizynajtys
11-21-2005, 11:09 PM
They are $674.00 for the entire rig.
http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=5701

It is pretty cost comparitive when comparing dual motor systems, but the lack of GB and thus zero maintenance more than makes up for it.



I charge with a 115ah deep cycle Marine battery. It holds up pretty well unless I try and charge all four 4S3P's at once. It then bogs down near the end of the charge. It usually is good for two charges for the 4- 4S3P's and then will last the rest of the day for my smaller 3S and 2S packs.

I do wish we had electricity at our field as that would simplify things, but I doubt it would ever happen.

-Mike

You use 4x 4S3P at once? Do you also use two ESCs?

I have a fairly large supply of 4S3P packs... well 6 of them. Another pair and I'd have enough for that setup in my opinion. But I only have 2 109s. I'd probably want another 2 109s and a generator if I decided to go that large. Nah, that's getting too rich for my blood.

Wiz

Mike Parsons
11-22-2005, 12:46 AM
Yep 4 4S3P's at once. Each motor gets an 8S3P driven to it. Also two Pheonix 110's. Basically two entire setups from Motor to ESC to Batteries.

I charge all of this on a 115ah Deep cycle marine battery and two 109's. Two more 109's would be nice, but what I have works.

-Mike

Rugar
11-22-2005, 01:05 AM
Yep 4 4S3P's at once. Each motor gets an 8S3P driven to it. Also two Pheonix 110's. Basically two entire setups from Motor to ESC to Batteries.

I charge all of this on a 115ah Deep cycle marine battery and two 109's. Two more 109's would be nice, but what I have works.

-Mike

Mike,
Any reason why you don't charge each 8S3P setup at once on the Astro? Or do you? It sounds to me like you are charging each 4S3P pack separate, at least thats how I'm understanding it.

Mike Parsons
11-22-2005, 01:22 AM
Gerald,
I either charge each pack separately or in Parallel as a 4S6P. Either way it, takes about the same amount of time since the Astro cant put out 12 amps for the 6P config. I am anticipating the new TP 10s charger as it is supposed to be a 10a charger if I recall.
Some will, however I believe that an imbalance can occur if two packs are charged in series, unless they are perfectly matched.

Rugar
11-22-2005, 01:56 AM
Gerald,
I either charge each pack separately or in Parallel as a 4S6P. Either way it, takes about the same amount of time since the Astro cant put out 12 amps for the 6P config. I am anticipating the new TP 10s charger as it is supposed to be a 10a charger if I recall.
Some will, however I believe that an imbalance can occur if two packs are charged in series, unless they are perfectly matched.

Sorry to take this thread off topic.

Thanks for the info Mike.

I'm finishing up a Fliton Extra 330 (taking LOTS of pics for a build thread when I'm done) and I'm going to run it on a 6S2P setup. I have two Max Amps 3S2P packs (they are heavy but will have to do till I get the funds for Pro Lights). So your saying I should not charge them in series? I should charge them as two separate 3S2P or charge them as a 3S4P pack? Which would be better? I have two Astro 109's and a Triton so charging them separate wont be a problem, but it would be nice to have a 109 and a Triton available to charge my smaller packs while waiting for the large pack.

Mike Wizynajtys
11-22-2005, 12:51 PM
Yep 4 4S3P's at once. Each motor gets an 8S3P driven to it. Also two Pheonix 110's. Basically two entire setups from Motor to ESC to Batteries.

I charge all of this on a 115ah Deep cycle marine battery and two 109's. Two more 109's would be nice, but what I have works.

-Mike

That seems like a lot of work and money. Do you get only one flight per charge?

Electrick
11-22-2005, 10:32 PM
That seems like a lot of work and money. Do you get only one flight per charge?

Work and money are two things you best have in abundance when you get to playing with electric airplanes at this level. :p

Rick

Mike Wizynajtys
11-22-2005, 11:29 PM
Well, I got plenty of work, but not so much money. :(

I want an electric plane this size, but I'm having a hard time justifying everything. The thought that keeps running through my mind is that having to charge all those batteries in two stages (for every single flight?) is too much work for the amount of flying I could do given the amount of time I have available .....and at the price of a plane like that I'd want plenty of stick time.

The only solution I can see is to throw a bunch of money at it in the form of a pair of batteries (8x4S3P), 4 chargers and a generator. That's getting pricy.

Wiz

Mike Parsons
11-23-2005, 02:30 AM
I actually get two ~9 minute flights per charge. I really need another set of batteries, but oh the cost. I have thought about trying a 12S4P (2- 6S4P) and swinging a 26"-28. That would push the amps to around 100a @ 44 volts for ~4400 watts. That is about where I am on the 22" and would drop some weight. That combined with only having to charge two 6S packs would be a huge benefit.

-Mike

Mike Wizynajtys
11-23-2005, 01:32 PM
I actually get two ~9 minute flights per charge. I really need another set of batteries, but oh the cost. I have thought about trying a 12S4P (2- 6S4P) and swinging a 26"-28. That would push the amps to around 100a @ 44 volts for ~4400 watts. That is about where I am on the 22" and would drop some weight. That combined with only having to charge two 6S packs would be a huge benefit.

-Mike

I think I'm going to continue to limit my self to 8S size and under. Maybe in the not too distant future I'll look to move up.

Mike Parsons
11-23-2005, 01:35 PM
An 8S size plane is still a good one. My 68" Yak was on an 8S and Hacker C50 12XL. 10 pounds and 150 watts per pound. It was an awesome performer.

-Mike

Air-Gar
01-30-2007, 04:50 PM
Hi Dick,
We're almost neighbors.
I have an AXI 5320/28 and an 8 or 10s lipo pack that are looking for a home. I'd like to put them into a YAK 54, since I have the smaller Hyperion YAK 54 and absolutely love it. What would your recommendation be for a YAK that would work well with this motor?
Air-Gar

DickCorby
03-20-2007, 07:33 PM
Hi Dick,
We're almost neighbors.
I have an AXI 5320/28 and an 8 or 10s lipo pack that are looking for a home. I'd like to put them into a YAK 54, since I have the smaller Hyperion YAK 54 and absolutely love it. What would your recommendation be for a YAK that would work well with this motor?
Air-Gar

I originally put that motor into the QuiQue 72" Yak and it came in at 12 Lbs, and does require 8S or better to give good performance. The first one crashed so I built another just like it. I had an 8S-2P 4000 MAH Pack on them both. But 12 Lbs was a bit heavy. It flew well enough however, no 3D or strong vertical.

I have taken the same plane and replaced the motor with a 4130/16 on Duralite EVO 6s-2P 5000MAH pack, swinging a 18/8 prop, and it's much better. It weighs in at just over 10 Lbs and flies great. Thrust to weight is well over 100% I'm not into 3D, so that makes it suitable for me.

So I too now have a virtually new 5320 if someone wants to buy it.

Air-Gar
03-20-2007, 07:49 PM
Hi Dick,
Thanks for the feedback. I ran a static test with my AXI 5320/28 on 10s LiPos and got about 2000 watts with an 18x10 or 18x12 prop.
I elected to buy a Seagull YAK 54 for it, which weighs about 10 pounds ready to fly. I'm getting it set up now and hope to have it ready to go this wekend.
I see that QQ is coming out with a 69-inch YAK in May. It should be even lighter.
BTW - I have a Hyperion YAK like yours and love it.

Air-Gar