E-Flite Diamante 25e

[compflight]

Got my Diamante 25E today.
Going with the 4S Power 32
The manual states a 14 X 7 with the 3S2P but a 13 X 6.5E for the 4S2P
Can anyone confirm this is correct. I would have thought it should be the other way round. But who am I to Query E-flite http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif
Looks a good choice of kit with the usual quality I have come to expect from E-flight. In fact, better than usual when I look at the wheels and the control horns. Very nice. I do not even have to replace them as with some kits (Not usualy E-Flite I might add)
Has anyone put a power meter on this thing with the 4S Power 32 setup as I am trying to guess at the flight times?

[tombo523]

How difficult would it be to put a motor that is not E-flite on the plane?
I have an Atlas that I think would work fine but I'm not sure the mounting holes are the same as the 25/32.

[compflight]

I am sure there must be several alternatives not least being an AXI

[rcers]

Pattern plane = pitch speed....

I would go with a much greater pitch prop for pattern. At least 10 pitch - so go with the prop that makes the power system happy - and you in that range.

Speed is good...

Mike

[compflight]

The 13 X 6.5 is pulling about 56A afer the intial splurge of power.
All is ready for the maiden tomorrow if the weather is kind.
I found it strange that I had to have the 4250maH 4S evolite (which are pretty light too) as far back as I could get in order to get the CG at 5". To get it further back I would have to add lead. ooogh - dont like doing that!
do these things normally work out so nose heavy?

[compflight]

Maidened this morning. Perfect calm.
Flew much better than anticitated. I am not sure that the CG could go back a tad from the 5" it is at present, but I cannot move the flight battery back any more. This is not the first E-flite kit that has worked out on the nose heavy side. Seems to be a trait.
Mods I am thinking about are changing the U/C to a carbon one from a company called Carbon Copy. They make some real butes.
Not sure about the raked back version. I might try the standard one since with my limited knowlege of mechanics the raked back type must be exerting a substantial leverage before any other forces are even applied. IE, if you were to push the plane down wen it is sittng stationary then there are forces causing the U/C to try to rip the bottom of the fuselage off. Is this what is happening with the the accounts of stories of the U/C causing the bottom of the fuz to be ripped out on anything exept a perfect landing. Changing this just may help. I will also change the wheels to lighter ones and forget those adorable spats in the interests of practicality rather than asethetism.
Fligth time I had was about 7minutes with about 15 to 20percent remaining.
Oh yes. The thing I loved on that maiden flight was when I tried a square loop. Just open up the power and it emulates a Saturn rocket.
Flat turns are intersting as I initialy over controlled with the aileron. I guess this is due to the rudder/aileron coupling negative effect, for want of a better explanation. However, kef was pretty good. Particuarly for me at least.
Oh well. I am a much relieved person having flown it, and a very much happier one.

[twest]

G
The manual states a 14 X 7 with the 3S2P but a 13 X 6.5E for the 4S2P
Can anyone confirm this is correct. I would have thought it should be the other way round.

You always need to reduce prop size when increasing cell count in order to keep the amp draw the same (unless you increase the ratio of a gearbox).

THe larger prop on higher cell counts will probably draw too many amps.

[compflight]

OK, so I have on my diamante a 13 X 5.5e and I want to reduce the power but KEEP the same 4S lipo. do I go to a 12 X 8 or 12 X 6 and what sort of difference will it make to A/ the amp draw and B/ the flight performance?
I am begining to think that the 4320mAh lipo that E-flite say this aircraft needs is a mistake anyway. After about an 8 minute flight with the 13 X 5.5e prop I have never replaced more than about 2400mAh which makes me think a 33mAh battery would be fine.

[Dereck]

I've got the same motor as yourself in their Ugly Stik clone - I use a 10 x 7 APCE, drops the current into the mid 40s amps with decent enough performance - that's from a 3700mA 20C pack from Hobby Lobby. Was not all that keen on the mid 50s current draws, even though its technically within my pack's capabilities.

The nose heaviness - the Stik 25E is just the same as your Diamante. Even with the pack as far back as it can be inserted with the wing on, the model is still nose heavy and thus unpredictable in snaps/spins.

I recently took two ounces off the AUW by replacing the kit UC with a FG unit I picked up in a UK hobby shop while on vacation a few years ago. Haven't gotten to fly it yet, but two ounces less ahead of the CG - what's not to love about that ;) ? Agree with you about the Diamante's swept back gear - nothing about it appeals to me for other than superb landings on ultra smooth tarmac :roll:

Being as I am embarrassed to take this thing out in public - the wife insisted on buying me a big shiny box for last Christmas, for those wondering why I have one in the first place - I intend to rip the covering off, ,apply a little individuality to its appearance and fix a few of its worse problems over this winter. One idea under consideration is fitting a 4S A123 pack to really nail the CG, and to allow fast charges without removing it. This will be made easier by a better fuselage radio fit.

Suspect if the Diamante had been sitting on the LHS shelf, I'd have gone for that instead - and been considering pretty much the same for this winter.

Regards

Dereck

[Alpea42]

i knock the gear off my diamante 1 out of 3 landings beefed up the mounting plate w/ 1/4 in ply and land a lot faster

[Alpea42]

with an E Flight power 25 and a 2100 ma 3s Thunder power batt. I had to put the batt. in the cowl to get C.G. right.And yes that still is enough thrust for verticle climb

[compflight]

Have finally ended up with a 12 X 6 prop which gives well over 10mins flight time. I now feel pretty certain that a 4S 3300mAH would be more than enough. Where do e-flite get these figures from or do they just want to sell batteries, not that they would make any thing from that - or would they!

[Alpea42]

I know what u meen I get 10 min flights with 2100 ma 3s and thats not being throttle conservative.A 4000 ma 4s like they recomend would be heavy and over doing it i'm sure

[Alpea42]

For xmas I got a 60 Amp Pro Brushless ESC .Took her out and flew with the 45 Amp esc one last flight this afternoon .Yeah esc was warm on landing .Came home installed the 60 A one and tomorrow I'm finally not gonna be scared the esc wil over heat and shut down . A 4 cell lipo is next on my list. Diamantes' fly like real planes. ;-)

[Alpea42]

I forgot the picture today was flight # 17

[Alpea42]

Nobody posted in a while huh.Well I've decided on my next scratch built build .I'm gonna copy the demensions of my Diamante on blue Dow FFF .I figure I'll use some of the build tips I've learned here plus some I've learned myself and reproduce my favorite plane.My original now has 19 flights and I'm finnally over the new plane jitters with it.And it flies so well I want to have a repacement for it.I'm gonna laminate 2 sheets of 1/4 " material with drywall tape and white glue for a stronger than single thickness strength.The 1st option I have to face is whether to leave the wing as a flat foamy or build it with an airfoil.Since I want an accurate reproduction I'm thinking the airfoil shape.I'll take pics as I go

[Airhead]

I forgot the picture today was flight # 17
Sweet Plane...:D

[Alpea42]

Thanks airhead it is a head turner

[Alpea42]

Got the wing and tail feathers cut out .I used the curved edge between 2 sheets for my leading edge of the hollow wing.And likewise for the verticle stab.I taped the center of the elevator and ver. stab rudder assembly with nylon drywall tape ,painted white glue on it and have them clamped over night.I hope I can keep the auw to under 40 oz.And if I can I might try flying it on a 480 brushless out runner.The real deal weighs 54 oz. with the E Flight 25 and a 2100 ma 3 s batt.The wing with servos weighs 13 oz. and I don't think I can make the foam one much lighter.We'll see

[Alpea42]

The double thickness laminated FFF is amazingly ridgid .Probably heavier than balsa framed tho

[garlonbs]

Just about to finish mine. Using an Axi 2820 with a 12x6 prop just because I had it. I will be using 3s2p 2200s for power with the new castle regulator bec. I suspect this power setup will be "stupid power" but it should be fun :D

[compflight]

I used a 12 X 6 with 4S now that did give awesome power. But nice to fly straight and level at half power as it gives me better roll precision but this is no pattern plane. Its a super sports plane but rolls are too barrely

[Alpea42]

maybe cuz mine is lighter w/ a 2100ma 3s and the 25 motor auw is 54 oz but it rolls on a tight axis

[Alpea42]

one 2100 ma batt. only gives a 8 min flight tho.Oh well more practice landing.Since I reinforced the L G mounting ply I haven't knocked the gear off

[Alpea42]

I gotta tell ya guys this plane is worth every penny of the 150$ retail price.The engineering and design work that Peter Goldsmith put in the fuselage alone is mind boggeling.Trying to make a home shop replica is way beyond my modeling abilities.So simplify dummy.I've simplified all the ply formers and partial bulkheads of the forward fuse to a 3 sided tube box out of 1/8 th ply,drilled 1" lightening holes in all 3 sides and glued it to my fuse sides so it sticks out the nose with my motor mount firewall on the front.The profile looks good so far ,but I can allready tell weight is gonna be a problem .My hats off to E Flight and Goldsmith on this plane.Mike Parsons does a review of it on the other Diamante thread.

[Alpea42]

I just had a really cool inspiration.Should wing loading end up higher than the real deal I'm thinking of making a second wing, mounting the carabines to my forward fuse box and making a Diamante Bipe. :eek: What the heck I already have a Mono Diamante why not a Bipe .:D A slower flyer that has the acrobatic capabilities of the real deal is what us old guys need.

[Alpea42]

I've finished the fuselage it weighs 9 oz. unpainted .Working on the hollow wing.Using the FFF with the fold as my leading edge seems like a cool idea so far.Gonna use a dowel as my spar.Can't afford a 48" C F rod it would need to be 1/4 ".This is a cheap foamy.Still hoping for an airframe of 2 lbs.

[DickCorby]

i knock the gear off my diamante 1 out of 3 landings beefed up the mounting plate w/ 1/4 in ply and land a lot faster

I've built about 12 ARF's over the past couple of years, and repaired a few for others. In my opinion, the weakest part of any ARF is the landing gear. And no matter what manufacturer I have bought from. I'd rather not mention names, but they all seem to build as if every landing is going to be feather light. And perhaps for their highly skilled test pilots, this is the case.

But in the real world of grass landing strips, and landings by average flyers, you better beef up the landing gear area with Triangle stock and slo dry epoxy before you fly (land).

Some of the kits I've gotten from the most reputable manufacturers, have had an addendum to the instructions advising doing just that.

[Alpea42]

E Flight has a really cool video of this plane in an experts hands(slow roll right on the deck screaming flybys k.e.with roll to inverted) you know,the stuff we all do LOL.And then he does a feather light landing.

[Alpea42]

Got me a 4s lipo at the AMA show today .Just put the E -Flight plug on it and gonna fly it tomorrow as the performance demon they suggest.Don't think I'll do any slow rolls at 3 ft AGL like on the video.The only bad part is I've had to economize and I could only justify a 2050 ma 4s20c battery and it's a chinese bargain one at 60$ show price.That low of a mh rating will prob. only give a 10 min flight.But I was only getting 8 min. on a 2100 3s16c.I'll see tomorrow

[Alpea42]

Didn't fly it yesterday goin for the 2nd maiden today.The 870 X 3.3 additional RPM. the motor is now putting out (on a 4 cell batt.) caused an increased vibration from my warped plastic spinner.It was so bad I was gonna ground it but luckily I had an an old good quality metal back plated one in my nitro stuff that was the same size.The bigger batt. and heavier spinner added 5 oz. to aug it now weighs 3 lb. 10 oz.

[Alpea42]

Well flight #20 went safely.Unfortunately I'm new to 4 cell lipo's.So it says 14.8 v on the package I think thats a full charge Right? :rolleyes: Wrong :confused: Didn't wait for the end logo to pop up on my Triton charger figured 15v is good Right? pre-flight check found aileron servos reversed and full flaperons deployed, fixed that ,was pleasantly suprised at power increase of 870X3.3 extra RPMs.And then 3 min. into flight was puzzelled by lack of throttle response.Bouncy emergency one piece landing on the runway (could be worse)O
K lets check this out.11.5 v no load vom reading ,60 pro ESC surging motor, showing low voltage cutoff.Hmmm :confused: come to find out full charge on a 4 cell should be closer to 16.75v Live and Learn .Here's some build pics of my fff Diamante 25 #ll ripoff :)

[DickCorby]

Yup!! My 4S 20C packs show 16.8 or I don't go up.

But then again I've seen the Gas Guys go up with half a tank of gas, and wonder wha'hoppen when they go deadstick in half the time of a normal flight.

At least with Electric we have a bit left if we are a bit short on approach after low Voltage cutoff. If we remember to go to low throttle and glide in close.

My Diamante is sitting quietly in the box in the closet waiting for me to put ittogether.

[Alpea42]

What do you think of my copy cat effort.And thanks for confirming what I almost learned the hard way

[Alpea42]

Woo Hoo Beautiful So. Ca. day here today .Had to go fly, sunshine, no wind here,80 degrees.Put flight # 22 on her with no Gremlins.Well did run off the road we use for a runway at the end of my landing so I had a short walk of shame.But nothing serious put her back on the road and taxied to the pits.7 min flight starting v.=16.75 ending v.=15.1 and I know the ESC don't shut down till it reaches 11.9 so I didn't even use 1/2 the available power.Maybe I can look forward to 15 min. flight times.Yippee.Plus the wires and the battery weren't even warm after landing.I did 5 rolls 3 loops 8, 1/2 cuban 8 turn arounds and a verticle climb with a roll and 2 stall turns.The best part is I was finally able to relax a little.This flight I would call a total success.Diamantes rock your socks.I did the calculations for prop speed yesterday and not supriseingly it works out to 103 MPH.The field I fly on I measured the other day and came up with 1 tenth of a mile square.So at 60 MPH it would take 6 sec. to go 1/10 th a mile.90 MPH would take 4.5 sec.and that sounds about right .I dont know I just know it's FAST!!!!!

[Alpea42]

I guess not too many Watt Flyers go in for this kinda high performance plane.Too bad they are awesome flyers.Put a 14x7 prop on it for fun.It climbs verticle at half throttle but I think flight time will suffer.Up to 28 flights now.

[starcad]

Well, I just picked one up and you guys are totally right about the landing gear. I bough it used and unfortunately have to do that repair. I going to add some 3/16" ply in that area and cut a new plate from 1/4", and attach to the 3/16". The other part is the firewall. The other person used a 25 and I'm adding a Turnigy C4250-700 so as you might imagine, things don't line up. New face on the Firewall and new Blind Nuts should get me in the air in about a week.

[firemanbill]

I guess not too many Watt Flyers go in for this kinda high performance plane.Too bad they are awesome flyers.Put a 14x7 prop on it for fun.It climbs verticle at half throttle but I think flight time will suffer.Up to 28 flights now.

Hey Bud, What servos did you put in yours. We are putting my boys together now and am about ready to out them in. Haven't decided on which ones yet though.

[Alpea42]

Hi Bill ,I went with the Hitec Mighty Minni HS 225 MGs. They were expensive about $28.95 I think but they do the job. With out altering the mounting holes much if I remember right. Standard Hitecs were too large.The plane is quick so middle quality servos are called for.It's almost a good idea to glass that bottom fuse area where the L G go if you think you can match that Mono-Coat red with some paint. But if you keep speed up on landing and don't bounce it they'll hold up. The wooden mounting piece is only 1/8 th or 3/16ths ply and it rips out even if you gently stall bounce a landing.Cuz the plane ends up close to 4 pounds http://h1070012.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=HRC32225S The HS 225 that's not metal geared is $20.

[firemanbill]

Yeah I was reading this thread and some others as well, will be looking at beefing that area up some.

I was thinking of using the JR servos the manual calls for or the Hitec's you are using. Definitely want the good stuff in it.:D

[Alpea42]

The airfoil isn't real thick it does have a sorta dihedral underside, it slows down pretty predictable .That's why you don't realize it's about to stall on landing approach, then at stall the nose drops (not the wing tips) and the 4 lb weight rips the L G mounting ply out. You guys will handle it no prob I'm sure.

[firemanbill]

cool! thanks for the tip.:D:cool:

[Dereck]

After lots of research with 20 cell nicad pack powered models a few years back, I realised that when it comes to UC mounting, Liteply might be attractive for building BARF models cheap, but it's no good whatsoever for seriously mounting an undercarriage.

My favourite method, given that my usual custom design/build service uses it all the time, is 1/2" x 3/4" alloy "L" section from a local hardware store. The 3/4" face is epoxied to the fuselage inner faces, placed so the UC can be bolted to about its mid-point. Most of my models are made of Birch ply in that neck of the woods, but with a BARF you're stuck with whatever.

Sounds good that the Diamante doesn't tipstall at slow speeds, you'd all be out buying even more of them ;) But Four Pounds for a model that size? If I built one like that with 4S and got to three and half, I'd burn it before anyone found out I'd slipped so bad.

Love Hitec 225s - all my larger (my idea of 'larger' anyway!) have them, no problems at all. That includes my ten year old Four Star, which used to fly at nearly 6lb - amazing what a 34ounce battery does for your RTF weight.

Regards

Dereck

[Alpea42]

Ah come on Deric the power system weighs almost 2 lbs. LOL It's got a 52" big fat cord ,thin ribbed wing

[Dereck]

And it has the advantage that everyone knows you bought 'that kit' - even if it's not FOM (Flavour Of the Moment) this month...

Whereas mine are usually the only one around ;)

Another minus - mine tend to have covering jobs that are somewhat lacking in tidyness. Maybe that I know the person who built my mainspars and other such internal actually cares about what happens in flight counts for a little?

I used to refer to my wing width as 'chord' - has something else changed and I missed it ? :rolleyes:

My last pattern-ish model had a 54" span wing, around 600 square inches, and weighed about 13 ounces with a brace of Hitec 225s. The complete model weighed just over 5lbs with a 16 x 3300mA NiMh pack - what am I doing wrong?

Of course, the Diamante succeeded admirably in one respect - you bought it ...

Sorry about the punctuation and capitalisation, if it makes it hard for you to follow :)

Regards

Dereck
(Note spelling)

[firemanbill]

And it has the advantage that everyone knows you bought 'that kit' - even if it's not FOM (Flavour Of the Moment) this month...

Whereas mine are usually the only one around ;)

Another minus - mine tend to have covering jobs that are somewhat lacking in tidyness. Maybe that I know the person who built my mainspars and other such internal actually cares about what happens in flight counts for a little?

I used to refer to my wing width as 'chord' - has something else changed and I missed it ? :rolleyes:

My last pattern-ish model had a 54" span wing, around 600 square inches, and weighed about 13 ounces with a brace of Hitec 225s. The complete model weighed just over 5lbs with a 16 x 3300mA NiMh pack - what am I doing wrong?

Of course, the Diamante succeeded admirably in one respect - you bought it ...

Sorry about the punctuation and capitalisation, if it makes it hard for you to follow :)

Regards

Dereck
(Note spelling)

see now, thig difference in our is that everyone will know Mason WON it! not bought it!:D:cool:

There is something to be said for unique aircraft though, one reason I enjoy flying my C-130, It's the only one I've ever seen like it...

[Alpea42]

De-Reck-Neck LOL OK, Chord or Cord whatever Rick or Reck don't be so hotty toddy on other peoples English Language skills or lack of same . That's not what these forums are about man. I made fun of a guy once, and he came back with a horrible story of a head on crash on his M.C. into a truck that left him brain damaged.I felt horrible after hearing his story. My brain damage is all self induced .:D You do seem to know your "patterrn-ish" planes , show us some pictures.

[Eplane65]

My Diamante has an AXI 2826/12 and a 13X6.5 APCe prop, Hitec HS85MG servos. I fly it with either a 3 cell 3200 mah or 4 cell 3850 pack. There is plenty of performance with each, but the 4 cell pack has a bit more oomph at the upper end. I fly 8 minutes with the 3 cell and 12 with the 4 cell.

Yep, the LG is the weak point. I flew it about 20 times with no problem, but on the next one, I landed fast, but smooth with no impact to speak of. The LG tore out the bottom. Needless to say, I beefed the LG mount up and so far, so good. This is a great airplane which will not stall by the way. However, I have to say that my Brio 10 flies better except for the tendency to snap.