Read it all... still can't choose!

[jasmine2501]

OK, I've read the threads here suggesting the Formosa, Vanquish, Brio and so on... but I still can't choose. I want a decent pattern flyer that won't break the bank on batteries and motor. That means I want to use a motor under $75, and I want to use 3-cell Lipos. The 4-cell and up just seem to be really expensive. I don't like the GWS Formosa very much, as it seems a little underpowered, but this can always be fixed with the right motor.

Here's what I want:
Precise pattern flying with good speed, like the (fuel) Qwick Fly I tried (in photo).
One meter or less of wingspan, or detachable wing (so I can fit it in my car)
Balsa construction
Solid landing gear
Repairable with the weak spots in the right place for the off chance I crash
Reasonably heavy so I can tackle a 10mph wind (more than 22oz)
Should use HS55 servos if possible (I have a bucket-o-HS55s)
Good coloring for orientation purposes

What I don't want:
Wicked expensive power system
ARF kit over $200
Have to cover it myself
"3D" oversize control surfaces
Ugly graphics or advertising (I want to put my own name or my company name on it, if anything)

Here's my short list:
Brio 10
(http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFL2275)Vanquish (http://extremeflightrc.com/html/vanquish.html)
Aero-works Stingray (http://aero-works.net/store/detail.aspx?ID=256)

I like the price of the Brio, but with lower price often comes lower quality. I like the look of the Vanquish but it's a little pricey. I like the price of the Stingray, and I know the guys who make it and they do good quality stuff, but it seems more like a 3D plane. I am looking for something that I can practice with and maybe take to a couple competitions, so it has to be reliable, take some abuse, and worthy of competition. If I'm any good and I like it, I'll go up to something better eventually, but I want to start with something cheap and basic. If you have any comments, please let me know what you think and why you like any of these. If you have any suggestions of planes I haven't listed, please let me know why you think it might be better.

[rcers]

Take the Brio off - it is too heavy and DOES not fly in the same class as the Vanquish, Element or Aspera....

The Formosa is great - but just not in the competition class.....

My choice - Aspera.
Check this thread:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=649867

Here is my setup and it goes like stink...

I use a Hyperion 3013 motor (from another project) at about 34 amps and just over 400w. With 3s 2500 pack or two 2100 3s packs (parallel) it goes just fine. For even more savings 4 a123 cells work great!

Trust me - larger is better and the Aspera rocks. Worth every penny and is quickly becoming my favorite RC airplane in 30 years of flying. I can't wait for the large one coming....

Save your $$ and get the hs65 servos too - they are needed in this size plane. You might be OK with 55's on the ailerons but not the rudder/ele.....

If the budget simply won't allow - do the formosa until you can afford the Aspera...

Mike

PS - I bought the Aspera aftering flying a friends one time. I review lots of planes on eZone and the Aspera simply rocks. One of the most honest flying RC planes ever. And it will be very competitive!

[jasmine2501]

The Aspera does look nice and it has the characteristic I'm looking for, but it's just a little too big (unless the wings pop off). I agree that bigger is better but I can't fit that in my car. I looked a review of the Formosa, and it looks better with the brushless motor, but it's made of foam. Still, at 30 bucks for the kit, it might be worth a try. I am starting to have a big collection of "fun planes" though, and I never seem to want to strip them for parts, so I'd rather wait and get something serious.

Slow Stick w/ 400XT
Stryker w/ stock 480 motor
GWS Funny Park stock
Hobby Lobby Yak-55 w/ Himax 850
Pop Flyer Pitts w/ cheapo 1250kV brushless
Aero Ace
Dragon Fly
Havoc Heli
Reflex Heli

Hehe... that's enough fun for now... it's time for something really interesting :)

[rcers]

little too big (unless the wings pop off). It is a two part wing with with a nice CF wing tube......

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651867

As you point out the Formosa is really a sport plane and is not in the same league as the others. It is cheap - and it flies wonderfully but again it is more of a sport plane. In order to compete you will need a larger plane.

But the Aspera is FAR better than the Formosa..... Trust me - save your nickels..... it is worth every penny. :)

Mike

[jasmine2501]

Oh well that clinches it then :)

If the wings come off it's just fine. $500 for the complete package is a pretty good price for a plane like this too. Does that package have the same setup as you use or is it a little different? That web page is a little annoying with the music that won't turn off! I won't count that against them too much though :)

[skycarcass]

What about the Fliton Inspire Mini? It has the capability to do 3D, but I've heard of several people toning down the throws and using it in pattern. I've got the 60 but I'm assuming the mini flies in a similar manner.

[rcers]

Yep I wish you could turn the music off too.....but tell Ben the Mike Llewellyn from the Dallas crew sent you his way - he is a pilot, in fact I flew with him last week. He is picky about his airplanes and his persistence and tenacity show in the way his planes fly.

The power system he sells it a tad more powerful than I use actually. But the motors are very near the same size. The plane and power system are a great price.

The little HS65's (I LOVE THEM) are pricey but again servos just are.

But it flies well on 3s and 400w. I don't see where you are located but as long as you are 2k feet or below - the stock power system ROCKS!

Mike

[jasmine2501]

...but tell Ben the Mike Llewellyn from the Dallas crew sent you his way - he is a pilot, in fact I flew with him last week.

Uh... what? I live in Denver, so it's way above 2k ft. More like 5100 ft at our field. Most things work pretty well, but we do get a little less thrust and less lift. Usually a simple prop change will fix that.

[rcers]

Uh... what? I live in Denver, so it's way above 2k ft. More like 5100 ft at our field. Most things work pretty well, but we do get a little less thrust and less lift. Usually a simple prop change will fix that.

Yep agree - I worry about "hey use exactly this setup....." and then you find out someone is in DEN or SLC or Pikes Peak and they go - "hey that stinks!"....

You get the drift - get 400w out of it (his system will EASILY) manage that on 3s (likley in the mid 40's amp wise however) and you will be fine.

I am trying to remember what Scott Stoops does - like a inch bigger and maybe an inch more pitch for the 800ft I fly at ;)

Mike

[Liquidity]

The Vanquish calls for 4s batteries and the recommended motor cost $85.

I do not know why people bash the Brio. I installed a Power 10 in mine and it runs great. Flight times are around 10 min. The Power 10 makes this plane a great pattern plane. If you do not want a 3d plane, sell the Park480 and put a Power 10 in it. Where the LG enters the fuselage is the weak spot. Some light ply will fix that.

Mike is right, the Brio can not compete with the the Vanquish, but it is a great flying plane for the price.

[jasmine2501]

I am trying to remember what Scott Stoops does - like a inch bigger and maybe an inch more pitch for the 800ft I fly at ;)



He does seem to like the Stingray:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=506794&page=2&highlight=Aeroworks+Stingray

I am partial to that one because it's made by local guys. It is also a good price. Now that I've read his review... I'm even more confused :)

[Warren]

Hey Jasmine,

I am currently competing against the "big boys" with a Mini FuntanaX in the Sportsman class.

I get a lot of funny looks, but as long as the wind is reasonable (5mph or lower) it works really well with the throws turned down (done mechanically and not at the transmitter to maintain resolution). If the wind id up, most judges will soften up a little when the plane is bouncing around a bit, but no love lost if you blow a manuever. :roll:

So far this year I've placed 3rd out of 7, 3rd out of 8, and 2nd out of 5.

The hardest learning curve is to keep the manuevers large; I am tempted to go too small to match the airplane so you really have to be cognicent of this and really keep the plane in close and fill the box.

For the price the Brio would be fine as well and get you off to a good start. Many people really nitpick on aircraft and never get down to the business of trimming out what they fly well and getting to competitions!

I've seen Sportsman won by many general sport planes - The manuevers don't demand much and most any plane can be setup to do well.

Have fun!

[Spencer J]

Formosa II


Anything else would be susidle. I love mine, and so will you. It is not a cheapo Chinese product, can be glued back together easily (Should it get away from you) and is nice and big. It can also handle a nice wind too. If you can't get the Formosa II then get a Park zone Typhoon 2 (PNP or Airframe). Again this is not a debatable issue, it is a given fact. If you can't handle a real electric pattern plane, then buy a Multiplex Acromaster...its the next step down.

:D

Its all true :p

[jasmine2501]

Formosa II

Anything else would be susidle.

I'm not even sure what that means. I like GWS stuff and I have nothing against foam, it's not that... I just think I want something heavier. I'm ready to step up. I may build a Formosa if the mood strikes me, but I'm talking about something for down the road here. A $500 plane is something I'm going to have to save up for maybe a few months before I have the money. I have the experience, and I'll have a lot more by the time I get the money for something like this. I've only been flying since March, but I have other experience to throw at it, an instinct for planes, and I'm pretty good overall.

[jasmine2501]

FYI, I found a deal on a Brio I couldn't pass up. If there's anything I should know about it before I build it, please let me know. I got a free Park 480 motor with it, and I have the other stuff I needed. I'm not going for 3D here.

[Warren]

Awesome, keep us posted on how you like it! ;-)

[Warren]

Hey Jasmine, have you flown your Brio yet?

[jasmine2501]

Hey Jasmine, have you flown your Brio yet?

No, but she's ready to go. I decided to get a Formosa and practice a bit before I risk the pretty one. A guy at my club has one and he said it's a step up, but pretty easy to fly, but hard to land. Not sure what he means by that but he's a pretty good pilot, so I believe him. He flies a Funtana X and Mini Pulse and a Slow Stick, and he has trouble landing the first two... so maybe he's just bad at landing :)

Everybody loves their Slow Stick. It don't mean nothin! hehehee :)

[Liquidity]

I have been flying the Brio for some time now. It is not too bad to land. Like any other similiar plane, you have to land with power. Make sure you reinforce the fuselage where the LG goes through it. It will save you in the long run.

[jasmine2501]

Yeah I'm learning how to do that. Most of my flying has been with a Stryker, Slow Stick, and Yak-55. Those all land pretty well with power off, except the Yak, which does a nice harrier landing. My Pitts has to be flown in, and sometimes I mess it up, but not too bad, if my radio is working...

[Spencer J]

I'm not even sure what that means. I like GWS stuff and I have nothing against foam, it's not that... I just think I want something heavier. I'm ready to step up. I may build a Formosa if the mood strikes me, but I'm talking about something for down the road here. A $500 plane is something I'm going to have to save up for maybe a few months before I have the money. I have the experience, and I'll have a lot more by the time I get the money for something like this. I've only been flying since March, but I have other experience to throw at it, an instinct for planes, and I'm pretty good overall.

Heavier? I thought that was bad on a plane :p :D

If you want it heavier then just triple the size of the battery and triple the size of the motor. Or glass it and stick a turboprop if you really have allot of money.

[jasmine2501]

Hehe... heavier planes seem to stick in the air a little better and don't get blown around by little bits of turbulence and gusts. For pattern I would think, the heavier the better, up to a point... correct?

[CHELLIE]

Hehe... heavier planes seem to stick in the air a little better and don't get blown around by little bits of turbulence and gusts. For pattern I would think, the heavier the better, up to a point... correct?


Your very right there Jasmine, A Little weight, Mass helps to track better, up to a point, and also a plane that is sleek and will cut the air, Suggestion Get yourself a VAN get rid of the little car, so you can get bigger planes :D :D :D Chellie

[jasmine2501]

Your very right there Jasmine, A Little weight, Mass helps to track better, up to a point, and also a plane that is sleek and will cut the air, Suggestion Get yourself a VAN get rid of the little car, so you can get bigger planes :D :D :D Chellie

Ewwww... a van? I look much sexier in the RX-7 :D

[hillbille]

I'll have to agree with Spencer J - FORMOSA II. That is the Formosa II - not the Formosa. The II is quite a bit larger and comes in around 24 - 28oz. Very stable flyer and it's rock solid. Under $50 for the kit. I use a Rimfire 30 - 35 - 950 in mine with an APC 10 X 5E prop. Nice quiet system with plenty of power! Want more power and cheaper - get the KDA 22 - 20L from united hobbies and it will pull 200+ watts for well under $50. The really nice thing about the FORMOSA II is it's SIZE - as it is quite a bit larger than the Formosa. The wings bolt on and the control surfaces are extra large - it says 2D on the box but this really is more a pattern ship. The extra large control surfaces really help the slow flight characteristics though and makes for great roll rates!!

Hillbille :D

[jasmine2501]

Actually I already have a Formosa... maiden today went very well. I need more elevator throw, but overall there was no issues. It rolls very nicely and aside from a little buffeting in the wind, it works very well. I need a higher pitch prop to get a little more speed, but otherwise there's no problems with it. Landing was a breeze too.

[CHELLIE]

Actually I already have a Formosa... maiden today went very well. I need more elevator throw, but overall there was no issues. It rolls very nicely and aside from a little buffeting in the wind, it works very well. I need a higher pitch prop to get a little more speed, but otherwise there's no problems with it. Landing was a breeze too.

Congrads on the Maiden Jasmine :ws: one of my maidens, the f16 scared the heck out of me today :eek: need to do some adjusting to it, the Pink pusher jet flew very very well, it also needs more power and speed, motor is in the mail for it :D Take care & have a great weekend, Chellie

[jasmine2501]

Congrads on the Maiden Jasmine :ws: one of my maidens, the f16 scared the heck out of me today :eek: need to do some adjusting to it, the Pink pusher jet flew very very well, it also needs more power and speed, motor is in the mail for it :D Take care & have a great weekend, Chellie

Must have been a bad day for jets. I saw two failed launches today, one F-18 pusher foamy and one gas powered ducted fan Mig-17. Both of them just didn't have enough speed on takeoff... little props and fans need a good push to get going I think.

[CHELLIE]

Must have been a bad day for jets. I saw two failed launches today, one F-18 pusher foamy and one gas powered ducted fan Mig-17. Both of them just didn't have enough speed on takeoff... little props and fans need a good push to get going I think.

Your right Jasmine, They can be a little tricky, most need a good launch or fast take off roll to get going, my delta wing, need at least 20 oz of thrust to get going, anything less, and its a Lawn dart :D take care, Chellie

[jasmine2501]

Your right Jasmine, They can be a little tricky, most need a good launch or fast take off roll to get going, my delta wing, need at least 20 oz of thrust to get going, anything less, and its a Lawn dart :D take care, Chellie

Now that I think of it, I almost biffed my Stryker today because of that. Usually there is some wind to launch into, but today it was really calm. Great day for a maiden... or a Stryker launch that make people behind you say "whoah" - I pulled it out about 6 inches off the ground :D

[Dereck]

Ewwww... a van? I look much sexier in the RX-7 :D

Hey Jasmine
Sure you have to look good in your car - my other half once bought a 'real' SAAB 900 because "I look good in it" Still not sure how much to believe that one!

But you need to do the ingenuity short course! A flying buddy of mine used to haul a 54" span SE5 biplane and a 60" span pattern bird around in his Triumph Spitfire! Fortunately, the rag top did help out - he had to put it down to put them in :eek:

You really should stop messing with little toys - for someplace near $500, you could build yourself a "modified" clipwing Sig Four Star 40, put around 600W in it with a clone outrunner and fast recharging A123 cells and never have to worry too much about wind and bumpy grass runways again. Sure, those baby models are cute for nice calm nights, but they are awful limiting...

Regards

Dereck
Whose fleet runs from 13" span upwards...

[jasmine2501]

If the wings can come off I can get a bigger plane in the car just fine. I am looking at some bigger ones, but I've got a pretty good list of stuff already, and I have another Yak-55 and a Cap 10 coming whenever I can get together with the guy who has them. I like the little 3D foamies, but I have a lot of planes now and I'm just going to play for a while before I get more. If I go to the park by my house, I can only fly the Slow Stick, but if I take the time to drive out to the club field, I want to take 3 or 4 planes with me.

Check the hangar: http://jazzyflight.blogspot.com/

[Dereck]

This model collection escalation is a bear, to be sure. Right now, I have too many and it gets 'worse'. Even 'worserer', mine are mostly a lot different and it gets almost comical trying to explain them to modern RC Buyers. I think recently I had one guy convinced that if he waited a week, he'd be able to buy one just like my newest model - when customs released the first container load off the boat from China.

Eventually had to tell him that it really was the only one around, I'd designed it and only test flown it the week before. But if he waited, he'd be able to buy the plan from a hobby mag in a month or two and I'd even tell him what covering film to apply if he wanted it the same colour as mine - that's when his eyes glazed over ;)

Somewhere in my deepest files, I have a photo of my Italian rear engined two door with three model aircraft in it- two are around 54" span with wings that come off, the other was around 40" and a one-piece job.

The car was a '66 FIAT Nuovo 500 - most Americans would think they came in pairs, with footstraps! It would make a two door Yaris look like a Chevy Subdivision :eek:

Lust will find a way!

Regards

Dereck

[jasmine2501]

Hehe... I'm familiar with the Fiat 500... people actually race those little things. I wouldn't think you could get any planes in there at all, so I guess that's pretty good :)

I like to have different types of models. That was my explanation when I was asked one day "so why do you bring 3 or 4 planes out here?" - in addition to the almost nonexistent downtime, I like to have planes that fly in different ways.

[stevecooper]

jasmine2501 (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/member.php?u=16328):Dereck (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/member.php?u=4403):::My soccer mom truck (SMT) has 54" from door to door so I build all my planes at 53, 3/8's" wingspans, NOW MY SMT NEEDS A NEW MOTER AFTER 250.000 MILES!!! my new SMT must be that wide also!! so far the newer ones are narrower, so I've been wheel-less till I find a SMT with 54" door to door or a ( god help me) station-wag'in, I'll chop the wings down a few inches if this take much longer! I've been walk'in my moded wheel-barrow to the field every day for six weeks now, Oh Well, I've got rides to work & the store and I'm just a bum anyway so maybe I'll just tell the oil company's the same thing I told the nitro suppliers "go to hell an die"your bub, stevecooper

[jasmine2501]

Dare I say that's a real redneck plane right there - except rednecks don't eat yogurt... is that a scale of something or just an invention of yours?

[Dereck]

Ah! Cars!

Oh for the day when driving 80MPH in the slow lanes on British Motorways would get you run down from behind by buses and trucks!

It was fun coming to American automobiles, even if I never made it to my dream car - a Caterham - before leaving.

But in the US, there was the minivan. We had one - not sure how I got that past the wife, she won't entertain one now. The sedan - what a useless device after a lifetime of cars with hatchbacks, even on the smallest. The station wagon - what a great idea! Fast and fun up front, practical on the back, my last hauled camping gear, bikes, model aircr aft, a huge TV - and once ran up 115MPH when no-one important was looking. Okay, it was German :)

And then the Stupid, Useless Vehicle, or is Senseless Urban Vehicle? Can never remember which.

What a triumph of car design! Take a builder's pickup truck. Weld a steel cap on it, fit it with a couple more doors and seats. Tart up the interior, carefully avoiding any taste. It's top heavy, overweight, the suspension's out of a truck, needs a massive engine to move anyplace quick - as long as corners don't get too involved. The fuel consumption is, well, abysmal is the nicest word that springs to mind.

And while you're at it - make it U-G-L-Y Put a huge grill on it, jack it way up in the air. Any suggestion of tastefull design - out with it!

But it has one immense secret - the biggest, best funded marketing campaign ever (okay, short of 'talk to your doctor' medicines and cosmetics ;) ). American motorists, being good little consumers, needed to be sold new and improved, so wheel out the ever-bigger, ever glossier SUVs and watch them fly off the lot (and hopefully, not overturn on the first corner)

Yeah, let's hear the battle cry of the 'murican car buyer - "Cheap gas for the Cadillac Escalation"

Cheers

Dereck

[jasmine2501]

Not to mention the fact that my little car is practically invisible on the road these days. I have to drive very defensively, or I'll get run over...

[stevecooper]

jasmine2501 (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/member.php?u=16328)::Just something that looked like something I'd seen somewhere, I use yogurt cups for most all my cowl'in's except the clock -timer cowl on my SE5a , not much of a patten ship though (topic said)your bub, stevecooperPS Dereck:: I do have another car but I do'nt drive it to work or store, and I can tote aeroaces only!!!!!!!!I build her from a rust-bucket a dozon years ago, and she runs great! I finely figgered out why you Brit's don't build T.V. sets ( can't figger out how to make-um leak oil) your bub, stevecooper

[jasmine2501]

Oh that's cool... I wish I could find my Encyclopedia of Aircraft. My dad gave it to me years ago for Christmas, and it has 100s of different planes in it... would be good fodder for the scratch-building mind.

Love the Triumph... so cute :)

[stevecooper]

jasmine2501:Took eight years to do her up but she's as always a want'in me to do something else, she came out of the factory Dec,11 1959, (and I'd tote patten plane's in her if I could) on topic, your bub, stevecooper

[jasmine2501]

jasmine2501:Took eight years to do her up but she's as always a want'in me to do something else, she came out of the factory Dec,11 1959, (and I'd tote patten plane's in her if I could) on topic, your bub, stevecooper

Cool :) I love cars so it's ok... when I get another car, my RX-7 is off to the body shop for paint, a new door and probly some bondo on the tail, and all I need is an original dashboard and radio and she'll be restored. The engine is pristine, and only 120k on it. Runs so well, I have to keep it in good shape. It is the car I wanted when I was 16... came out that year. I remember the commercial with James Garner - "pours out power smooth as silk, as only a rotary can" - don't remember if that was 1987 or not, but I do remember wanting one real bad :D

[Dereck]

Jasmine - the Wankel is a neat engine. Mazda did a great job on it - few were brave enough in England but the NSU RO80 set standards few other cars could match.

For one, the shortest engine lifespan ! There was even a cottage industry in England for a fitting kit to toss the RO80's Wankel and fit a V6 Ford 3L lump.

Steve - beautiful job on your Triumph. With the crazies on the roads these days, I'd be warey of taking her out on the road at all. My buddy with the Spitfire used to drop his roof, slide the fuselages and wings into the passenger side footwell, then put the lid back up. Field kit was mostly taken out of his field box, spread around the Spit's somewhat odd and small boot/trunk, as his box wouldn't fit in one piece.

Being what I am, I was about to launch into a kit car with a body based on marine ply mounted on a Triumph Herald/ Vitesse chassis, would have looked somewhat like a MG T series. A major change in plans that included marrying a lass from NC and moving to the US pretty much negated that project as I figured I'd never be able to ship my home-built to the US., Would have been fun to build a matching trailer to haul the toy airplanes around in though.

Regards

Dereck

[tommytorino]

Nice attachment in your 1st post. I'm a kaos guy myself.

Tommy D

[flybird]

Jasmine, I read you already made a choice going with the Formosa. I fly at my park which is just down the street because of time limits. I had a Brio-10 with a 480 , weighed a little much to be strong at pattern. I am also trying to put together a pattern routine. Bought a Hyperion Helios and threw the 480 with 2200 3c mah, mini digitals, except for the rudder, 40 amp. esc, park-bec and modified landing gear. The landing gear is from the Brio and wheels are from a slo-v.The tail skid is larger also (nyrod). Sounds funky I know and looks a little weird but she can land and takeoff anywhere without getting ripped up. In the spring they get behind on mowing at the park. This thing flies like a beast, much lighter than the brio and built very strong. I have a couple pictures of it in the gallery here, one with skis and the other with the larger wheels. Flys like the brio, but much more powerful and easier on the battery. I get much more flying time in just throwing this thing in the car and running to the park. I wish I had more time for the flying field, but for now this is o k. Hope this helps, Phil.

[jasmine2501]

Cool... good to know. I have looked at some Hyperion stuff but just wasn't sure. I have the Brio and Formosa for now though, so if I step up it will probably be to something much more 'serious'. The weather has been lousy here though, so I've been getting a lot of simulator time :)