Can this design fly?

[GreenAce92]

Hi all,

I remember playing this video game at a gas stop a while back and they had some wicked looking propeller fighters looking very close to jets. But here is one airplane design i had based off of one of the fighter planes and i was wondering if it was able to fly or not. here are the pics if anyone has any suggestions please post.

Thanks.

[Murocflyer]

Looks like it would. Follow the simple laws of aerodynamics and it'll fly.

Have you read Andy Lenon's R/C Model Aircraft Design?

Frank

[stevecooper]

GreenAce92::Heck yes it'll fly! great look'in lay-out you got there!! remember one can fly a lawn-chair with enough power, I like every thing about it, I may have to do a knock-off!! Are you do'in it in foam? your bub, stevecooper

[GreenAce92]

Awww coool you did the Howard Hughes 2 engine plane the one that crahsed in the movie cool plane. Correct me if im wrong about the plane or which one it is but great job she looks nice. How well does she fly? Sure you can build one with your own design and changes. I have to buy some foam and get a good radio system i have to look around anyways so this project is not going anywhere right now for me but yeah sure if you want to build a model of this design go ahead. I would like to see someone else's version. Thanks for the encouragement.

[GreenAce92]

Sorry i have not read Andy Lenon's R/C Model Aircraft Design.

[Murocflyer]

If you come across a copy you should read it. Very informative.

Frank

[GreenAce92]

I will have to look around for it thanks for the info.

[stevecooper]

GreenAce92::Heres some more, go buy some foam chuncker's an start from there, You can sand-shape about any plane you want an they fly GREAT! your stevecooper

[GreenAce92]

Cool planes they look really nice. Now do you sand those by hand? I will have to do a micro scale of this design first strap a little engine and a tiny lipo battery and do a free flight model see how good she flies. I would like to make it a 4ch preferrably in the 40in wngspan area. I dont know about wheel setup i will probably run a triwheel or a taildragger dont know which one will look better.

[javaman1]

it looks like it'll fly, it looks like a ussr mig 15 which flew well.

[SaucerGuy]

It will fly as long as you keep it at 5' or less scale wise, if you go up from there, the tail feathers don't need to be that large, but will work anyway, be it more responsive then what you are prepared for.

Given the proper power source, it will be fast, this is due to the swept back wings, yet with the chord and length of them, it's going to let you take it in for a slow landing. I'd pursue it, it looks like a keeper of a design.

[GreenAce92]

Thanks i will build it once i get the right foam material and my Optic 6. I am going to probably build the body first then i will add the electronics later because i am going to use the first electronics for my GWS Beaver and the E-flite P47. What do you think would be a better type of landing gear for this plane a tri wheel or a tail dragger? Also how would i carve the cylinder fuselage out? Would i start with 4 long rectangular boxes and then cut out an outer curve for each one and then glue all for pieces together or is their an even more simple way?

[FlyingMonkey]

GreenAce92::Heck yes it'll fly! great look'in lay-out you got there!! remember one can fly a lawn-chair with enough power, I like every thing about it, I may have to do a knock-off!! Are you do'in it in foam? your bub, stevecooper

or balloons...

[SaucerGuy]

Thanks i will build it once i get the right foam material and my Optic 6. I am going to probably build the body first then i will add the electronics later because i am going to use the first electronics for my GWS Beaver and the E-flite P47. What do you think would be a better type of landing gear for this plane a tri wheel or a tail dragger? Also how would i carve the cylinder fuselage out? Would i start with 4 long rectangular boxes and then cut out an outer curve for each one and then glue all for pieces together or is their an even more simple way?

Landing gear is based upon your skill level, a trike will be most stable at avoiding ground loops, but tail draggers are more forgiving upon landing in my book.

Along the cylinder, if you have a wire cutter, I found that mounting it in a bandsaw fashion, then mounting a bolt through the center of the stock will let it act as a lathe. If you don't have a wire cutter, I'd glue the fuse pieces together, making sure the glue is in the center section only, and sand it to shape, if the glue goes too far outwards, it will create an uneven density which may be difficult to evenly sand. You can fill the gaps with glue after you are happy with the shape.

Fred, how is the reading coming along btw?

[GreenAce92]

Thanks for your input that will save me lots.:D

[jobu]

Hey Steve...pretty clever planes, you are a genius, love the yogurt cups! I,ve used the cups that come with cough syrup for cowls on direct drive 280s. What is that glider called that you cut up for the Hughes spy plane...I chopped up one my son had and modified it. The wing is nice and fast with a little sanding but not sure who makes the glider. I would like to get some more.
Thanks Joe

[CHELLIE]

Yes that will fly, looks like a cliped glider, just get the CG right :) Take care, Chellie

[GreenAce92]

So how would i go about shaping the body? Do i just cut C shapes into foam and line them up and then put ribs across or do i just make ribs then wrap sheets up around them im thinking of using fanfold foam for the bendability. How durable is that stuff? Can i cartwheel across the ground and plane would be in one piece still? Also aileron placement just put them close to the wingtips? I will probably do my first one with a landing gear from something but it will be stationary and if it proves to fly really well i will try doing retracts to make it look more scale. That i think would be hard though and i will have to research on it. Im hoping that my Optic 6 transmitter i am planning on buying can do alot of functions on it to attach cool little nifty things on my airplanes i will build.

[SaucerGuy]

Ace, you are thinking along smaller scale endurance wise due to the inertia. Once you get past aeroace scale and specs, this stuff becomes a new beast, I'm trying my best to actually address exactly what you are saying, but it's a tough route to go. Noobs will be happy for my efforts here regrardless, but I guess the bottom line in this venue, don't crash, it's expensive.. Thanking the lord above for these little indestructables on the cheap, we have such an army of new pilots to teach, we won't know how to handle them soon people. God help us the now old timers "the bulk of these boards inducted automatically as of now" we have much to teach these new pilots.

[stevecooper]

jobu (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/member.php?u=804); thanks my bub, I'm just a bored old man have'in some fun!! There gillow gliders, abit more $ but well manufactured an consistency from plane to plane a must when your use'in two or three per ,your bub, stevecooper PS. GreenAce92 Tail-dragger's for ease of set-up an land'in and tri's are fun too, Oh Well!

[GreenAce92]

Hey steve check out the video on this link im posting they have some sweet planes. I want to try building the Varakoroff i think its called its a pusher with 2 ramjet engines on the booms of the fuselage. Check it out im sure you will be surprised by the designs. Unless you have already seen this show.

http://stage6.divx.com/History---World-War-II/video/1631439/Secret-Russian-aircraft-of-WWII

[jobu]

thanks steve...good luck GreenAce

[GreenAce92]

Quick question has anyone ever tried building the Flying Pancake? The experimental lifting body with the 2 propellers on the side. Its a pretty sweet design i think.

[SaucerGuy]

It is a sweet design, you can find plans for it via. freeflight rubber band version off of the web. I will be building one soon enough, it is a sweet design, in fact, the full scale version rivaled the jet's of the time speed wise. It also had the advantage over them being able to take off and land on a shorter runway which would have given it a huge advantage being launched from an aircraft carrier. They should have kept them in service, it would have changed how we think about aircraft design in general.

[Sky Sharkster]

Hello Greenace,
I believe the "Pancake" design you're talking about is the Chance Vought V-173, also called the "Flying flapjack";
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/aircraft/flapjack.htm
http://www.vought.com/heritage/products/html/v-173.html
The prototype indeed did fly, in 1942 and '43. Top speed was 138 mph, hardly "rivaling the jets of the time speed wise".
There WAS an prototype advanced design, the Vought XF5U-1, that was to have larger Pratt + Whitney R-2000-7 engines, and the projected top speed was 504 mph. However, this design never flew.
http://www.vought.com/heritage/products/html/xf5u-1.html
It would make an interesting model, good luck!
Ron

[SaucerGuy]

They have a history channel review on it, take note, I know what I'm talking about.

[GreenAce92]

I dont know i watched a show heres the link below but they said there was a version for the navy or something that could reach up to 500mph. Its in the Show Secret Alied Aircraft of WW2. I dont think it ever flew though your right it is called the flapjack. They had some sweet designs back then they should make a show or something where they try these designs with today's technology.



http://stage6.divx.com/History---World-War-II/video/1696659/Secret-Allied-Aircraft-Of-WWII

[SaucerGuy]

The History Channel had several specials on it earlier this year, the plane had potential, isn't that the bottom line? Lift bodies are harder but maximize the wingloading to payload when it all comes down to it stability wise, but that's why I love them....

[GreenAce92]

Well im going to retry this design soon. I gotta get some more foam and now i have a decent radio the optic 6 so all i need is another battery, esc, and a powerplant. Then i also will need another servo. But yeah i think wingspan will be 40in and it will be powered by a 2cell lipo on a 2712-12 brushless outrunner. The most i will probably be able to do in a couple of days is build the body because ive spent most of my money and i have no job right now so yeah the best i can do is build the body and then put in 2 servos then i will have to wait later. But i do have a cheap 3ch radio lying around from a crappy plane im buying a 7x4 slow flyer prop on it for its direct drive 370motor. I will most likely have it be an aileron flyer with elevator and it will be a tail dragger. Im not sure about the tube part i might do it but it wont be a full tube. I will modify it, it will be close to a tube but not really.

This build will happen in ellapsed time because i dont have the funds right now i only have a couple of bucks but i think i can fork up 7bucks for the foam also i wont have much time school will start up again soon and i also have my new Beaver to put together but people have said that it is a great design and so i will go and pursue it.

[50+AirYears]

I work with an engineer who'se father built a model of the V-173. A picture was published a couple years ago in MAN. He said it was a handful at first, and took some rework, but became a decent flyer.

[GreenAce92]

Sweet! Any chance you have that pic?
Thanks
Thats awesome.:D

[50+AirYears]

Fraid not. I make copies of article, and pitch the mags, unless the particular issue has full size plans.

[GreenAce92]

Oh i see oh well thats alright.
Thanks

[unloco2]

????One of the great mysteries in my life is, How are Propellers identified. The diameter is obvious but the second number is not clear. I measured several props to see if I could make any sense of the numbers and no, I have no clue.

[GreenAce92]

The second number is pitch i know that much. Its like... imagine you spinning the prop one whole revolution 1turn into a block of something. The pitch just tells you how far it will go in. Thats what i read in a book.

Heres a concept on props that i have learned.

Say you have a prop with a pitch speed of 38mph and its producing 20oz of thrust.Well you can also have a second prop with a pitch speed of 20mph and it can also produce 20oz of thrust. This way you can choose if you want a fast plane or a slow. The fast pitch props are for like pylon racers that fly like 180mph plus! And the slow pitch are for trainers. So your plane flys slow now im not sure how they determine pitch speed though. Thats what i know usually on motors they tell you a recommended prop range.

[50+AirYears]

The second number represents the theoretical distance the propellor would move ahead in ideal circumstances in one full revolution of the prop, assuming no drag or slippage holding it back. Therefore a 10-6 means a 10" diameter prop that would pull a plane forward approximately 6" for each revolution.

[50+AirYears]

Pitch speed is basically how fast the plane should move for a given pitch and RPM. Basically it's pitch times RPM divided by 1056 to give MPH.

Model Aviation magazine a couple months ago had a nice article by Andy Lennon discussing tailoring the prop to the plane using pitch speed and some other factors. One of the things dealt with matching props and showed how to calculate the equivalency between different sized props. I built a couple spreadsheets in EXCEL using the article.

I think I used to read articles on model aerodynamics by Andy Lennon in American Modeler back in High School, maybe as far back as 1960. He is still writiting articles and designing very efficient models. MAN has a number of his plans available.

[unloco2]

Thanks for the quick response, I measured 2 props just to see the difference. Statically, both props had a pitch of 3/8 of an inch, one was labeled 8X6 and the other had no label, does this mean both are 8X6? I looked at Hobby Lobby web site and in the brushless motor section, there is an indication of amps and volts and prop size, but no thrust figures. There is another site: http://stores.ebay.com/Heads-Up-RC where the seller talks about thrust a great deal, and relates that to airplane weight and also to type of flying. Not confusing, just so much information that it is hard to digest and logically fit into my marginal mind. Anyway, thanks again.

[50+AirYears]

If the props are the same diameter and blade width, they are probably the same pitch. The pitch number is a trignometric function of the diameter and the angle of the blade in degrees at the point the angle measurement is taken.

I haven't used trig in over 20 years.

[GreenAce92]

Lucky Im learning trig right now and its a pain! Jeff on headsuprc is a great guy aks him questions and he will help you out.

[50+AirYears]

Just got the latest MAN last night after work, and read a column that the Andy Lennon I referred to just died in November at age 93. Another of the great ones gone.

[unloco2]

Just got the latest MAN last night after work, and read a column that the Andy Lennon I referred to just died in November at age 93. Another of the great ones gone.
re: Andy Lennon, after I read your announcement about his dying, I realized that I have one of his books. R/C Model Design, copyright 1986. After being out of model aircraft for a long time, I had forgotten I had the book. You are right, another great one lost.

On a different note, I also found my old copies of Frank Zaic's series on circular airflow.

[GreenAce92]

Another great mind gone away.....

[GreenAce92]

Eh...just digging up this thread here, i may try this bird, or something very similar to it now that ive got the gear to do so.

[lucasrubini]

Hi all,

I remember playing this video game at a gas stop a while back and they had some wicked looking propeller fighters looking very close to jets. But here is one airplane design i had based off of one of the fighter planes and i was wondering if it was able to fly or not. here are the pics if anyone has any suggestions please post.

Thanks.


did it fly? what about that sharp airfoil, does it work good or better than regular?

[50+AirYears]

Sharp Airfoil leading edges? I've tried that on one hand launch FF glider, one .049 control liner, and 3 RC jobs. Very touchy in pitch, very violent and abrupt stalls with very poor recovery. All crashed. In fact, on the CL job, I got quite a bit of respect from my flying buddies because I got 5 laps out of the thing, after replacing the Babe Bee with a Cub .074. The heavier engine smoothed things out a bit. I don't think I'll try it again

[GreenAce92]

Thanks for the input! gives me a good headsup thanks!

[Ed Emmons]

Hi GreenAce92,

Wishing you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Ed Emmons

[GreenAce92]

Hey merry x-mas to you too!
hows that piper comin?

[Ed Emmons]

Hi GreenAce92,
Cub is just fine. I've been flying indoors the last 2 Fridays. We havean inflatable dome just a few miles from where I live. RC flying every Friday from 1-3pm. $5.00/hour. The dome has 3 regulation size soccor fields and a 90 foot ceiling. Usually we have 30 to 40 flyers.

Ed Emmons

[GreenAce92]

5dollars/hr! nonsense! lol
least you get to fly with lots of people
glad to hear