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hoppy
11-21-2005, 01:11 PM
This thread was seen on another forum.

http://www.laureanno.com/RC/fire-pics.htm

phat23
11-21-2005, 02:07 PM
Yikes!!

Jspencer
11-21-2005, 03:06 PM
"I then left the garage and went upstairs where I set up my laptop on the breakfast nook table. I got something to drink and seated myself at the table with my laptop (I had some work to do.... still). Around 20 minutes later, I all of a sudden heard my garage door unexpectedly open"


Two lessons to be learned here...
#1. Never leave charging Lipos unattended.
#2. You need a better container to charge your Lipos in.:o

Rugar
11-21-2005, 04:19 PM
The fire fighters proceeded to knock down the sheet rock to be certain the fire had not spread, tearing half the wall and part of the ceiling down. They then investigated the cause (for around 45 minutes) and came to the initial conclusion that it was a general electrical fire. I myself am almost certain it was from the LiPo pack exploding (for what reason, I do not know).

Could this be yet another case of Lipo's being blamed on a fire that was actually caused by something else? The Fire Department could be wrong blaming it on electrical that started the fire, but these guys see this sort of stuff everyday and I feel that they are probably correct as to the cause. It just may have been the electrical wires going to the chargers or power supply themselves that caused this fire. Not the Lipo packs. Yes we have to be careful charging our batteries, and yes we have to keep a eye on them, but we cant blame every fire that happens with Lipo packs in the area on the Lipo's themselves.

Personal I go against all the rules by charging my Lipo's in the house :eek:. Why you ask? So I can keep a closer eye on them! I feel if I was to charge mine out in the garage I would pay less attention to safety by leaving them to charge on their own and not check on them as this guy did. By charging them in the house I'm in constant view of them if something were to go wrong. Now I admit I don't have a fire extinguisher handy if something were to go wrong, but this will be corrected as of today! Great thing about these message boards, you always get new ideas not only in building and flying, but in safety as well.

GarySS
11-21-2005, 05:12 PM
Question: How do you check/babysit Lipo's while they are charging? Seems like a dumb question, but I am interested in the specifics. How often do you go over and look? at them? Do you always also feel them for heat? Do you feel them for puffing? How hot is too hot? What do you do if they become too hot other than stop charging.....reduce input amperage, by how much (-%), etc. I suppose if they start puffing at all you might as well quite and place an order for another battery. Thanks!

NCguy
11-21-2005, 05:24 PM
.

Personal I go against all the rules by charging my Lipo's in the house :eek:. Why you ask? So I can keep a closer eye on them! I feel if I was to charge mine out in the garage I would pay less attention to safety by leaving them to charge on their own and not check on them as this guy did

I mounted all my charging gear on a piece of shelf board cut so that one of those extra large plastic storage boxes will just fit over. It makes a perfect rain cover and the shelf board also has one inch feet to elevate it off the concrete. I have an extra long heavy duty extension cord and I do all my charging outside in the middle of the driveway. In this location they could ignite and nothing else is close enough to burn. I don't trust charging these things indoors under any circumstances. You might contain the fire with ceramic but you won't contain the smoke. I would rather avoid the damage and my wife tossing me out along with the LIPOS.

Rugar
11-21-2005, 05:24 PM
Question: How do you check/babysit Lipo's while they are charging. Seems like a dumb question, but I am interested in the specifics. How often do you go over and look? at them? Do you always also feel them for heat? Do you feel them for puffing? How hot is too hot? What do you do if they become too hot other than stop charging.....reduce input amperage, by how much (-%), etc. I suppose if they start puffing at all you might as well quite and place an order for another battery. Thanks!

Your Lipo's should not get warm while charging, PERIOD!

Every few mins (at least every 10mins) I feel the packs for any kind of heat and visually look at the charger (I use Astro 109's and Triton's) to make sure that they are still showing the correct cell count and the correct charging amps that I set it for.

If you feel ANY heat at all coming from the Lipo pack, or see ANY puffing occur, disconnect it from the charger and place it in a safe area away from anything it may ignite if the pack were to catch fire. After the pack has cooled down, totally discharge the pack and properly dispose of it.

Flying So High
11-21-2005, 05:27 PM
OMG man, I cant believe that. I really feel for you, I only have an electric trainer, and your right would rather see it crash than get burnt. I never watch my Lipo when I charge it. Will do from now on. Good Luck in building your collection again. :) Some very nice planes.

Terry Rigden
11-21-2005, 05:29 PM
This what I do

I charge my batteries from an industrial grade power supply set to 8.417V and 1c I only use 2s packs so there is no confusion on the voltage set.

I charge them in the house while I am in attendance usually working on the PC or when its warm out in the garden with less supervrision.
I log the time they pack takes to reach 8.4V (2 cell pack)
then log how long it takes for the current to drop by 200ma and every subsequent 200 ma. This should be an exponential curve. Any deviation from this would be cause for concern.
I have a window nearby and should they even start to misbehave they go out of it. Misbehavior would include getting even slightly warm, balooning or failing to charge in the expected manner. So far nothing untoward has occured.

I graph each charge and compare it to the norm, any battery pack deviating from the norm is treated with extreme caution on subsequent charges and may live outside for a bit.

So far this has worked over 200 times.

I realise there could be dire results if I get this wrong so I check and check again. I beleive that Lipo dont suddenly blow with no warning. They get warm then hot then swell then go bang.

Regards

Terry Rigden

Rugar
11-21-2005, 05:30 PM
I mounted all my charging gear on a piece of shelf board cut so that one of those extra large plastic storage boxes will just fit over. It makes a perfect rain cover and the shelf board also has one inch feet to elevate it off the concrete. I have an extra long heavy duty extension cord and I do all my charging outside in the middle of the driveway. In this location they could ignite and nothing else is close enough to burn. I don't trust charging these things indoors under any circumstances. You might contain the fire with ceramic but you won't contain the smoke. I would rather avoid the damage and my wife tossing me out along with the LIPOS.

Bottom line is what may work best for one of us, may not work for all of us. We each must make our own decision to how we can safely charge and still be able to monitor the packs and charging process. However you do it, just be safe about it.

Jimmy Hoffa
11-21-2005, 05:39 PM
Tom,
Thanks for sharing your story. Since I have no fire extinguishers, I plan to buy two of them today.
Phillip

NCguy
11-21-2005, 05:47 PM
Tom,
Thanks for sharing your story. Since I have no fire extinguishers, I plan to buy two of them today.
Phillip

And due to this story I'm planning on buying one of those commercial-sized fire extinguishersto to replace my homeowner sized unit. I still store LIPOS in ammo cans in the garage. It would be a shame to have an extinguisher that wasnt big enough.

sierra-gold
11-21-2005, 05:48 PM
"... connected one of the 1500maH
3-cell Kokam packs to the charging leads and placed the pack into the
ceramic container. I watched as the charger recognized the 3 cell
pack. I then proceeded to line up the other LiPo packs on the bench
while also observing the charger as it initially analyzed the LiPo pack (it
usually takes 3 minutes, according to the manual). After this 3 minute
period, I heard the charger then go into its normal charging mode (it beeps
once). I also noticed that the charger was charging at a 1300mA rate
and I was about to set it to 1500mA (1C) but did not (a little lower can't
hurt I thought). I then left the garage and went upstairs where I set..."

There are two things I note here in the above description:

1. He apparently didn't follow the 109 instructions and set to zero the charging current during
Phase One. If he had, the current would have been zero in Phase Two, not 1300 as he described. Not
sure why that would cause a fire, but it is part of the instructions for safe use of the 109.

2. He mentioned the use of a ceramic flower pot for a charging/storage container.
He didn't mention any use of a top placed on the flower pot to contain any potential fire.

(Assuming I read the writeup accurately.)

Being in the workshop while Lipos are charging gives one the utmost time to react to a fire.
If the charging Lipo is contained in a fireproof container (with top) and having a fire extinguisher
nearby would probably keep damage confined to the workbench top area at worst case.

I use a cement patio paving square on the bottom, a half cement block sitting on that square and top
it off with another cement paving square for my charging container.

SG

Rugar
11-21-2005, 05:57 PM
2. He mentioned the use of a ceramic flower pot for a charging/storage container.
He didn't mention any use of a top placed on the flower pot to contain any potential fire.

(Assuming I read the writeup accurately.)

SG

I had placed the battery pack into the "flower pot" but did not place the cover over it (as I always use to do but had been slacking). I believe the battery explosion (i.e. fire ball) lit the wings on fire and this spread rapidly to the other planes and wings that were hanging.


Actually he did mention it. He admitted he left it off.

cptsnoopy
11-21-2005, 06:14 PM
I use a triton charger and I found a little extra comfort and insurance after buying the temp sensor. I set the max temp from 5 to 10 degrees above outside air temp.

mmmdowning
11-21-2005, 06:42 PM
Man, I am sorry for the losses. I'm in shock.

Steve
11-21-2005, 06:45 PM
Holy Crap! What a scary story. I only charge in my workshop which is adjacent to my barn. I'm going to re access my charging set up though. I'm religious about using a firesafe to store my charged Lipos and only use a ceramic battery bunker (with top) every time I charge. Still, after reading this...it's not enough. There's still some flammable stuff too close to my charging setup.

About that temp sensor. I have one too, but the lead is very short so I tend not to use it. Can you just use servo ext wire to make it longer?

I use a triton charger and I found a little extra comfort and insurance after buying the temp sensor. I set the max temp from 5 to 10 degrees above outside air temp.

NCguy
11-21-2005, 06:55 PM
I use a triton charger and I found a little extra comfort and insurance after buying the temp sensor. I set the max temp from 5 to 10 degrees above outside air temp.

I think that I've read that LIPOS can develop thermal runaway even before they get too hot. Even after they are pulled off the charger :eek:

FirstShirt
11-21-2005, 08:31 PM
Hey, Guys, thanks for the discussion on lipos. Hoppy, I'm sorry for your loss, but really appreciate your telling us your story. Great learning experience for all who read it. I guess it's hard to be too careful with these batteries.

I often charge my batteries in my fireplace...seems like a good place to have a fire! Also, I've purchased an inexpensive fire/smoke alarm and place it over the batteries whenever I charge them. So far, so good.

hoppy
11-21-2005, 08:38 PM
Hoppy, I'm sorry for your loss, but really appreciate your telling us your story.

I am just the messenger, first shirt. I saw the thread reference on another forum and thought you guys would be interested.

It is a eye opener regardless of the cause.

kuzikood
11-21-2005, 10:38 PM
th e thing is lipos are still in the experimentel stage they really are i know many will argue..... but its true .....nicads and nimhs have been around forever and so they have gotten safer but they too can explode into a firey mess i know we had a 7cell nicad go into direct short once and explode luckly we were in a parking lot and the pack was on the asphalt or it could have been much much worse it was back in the days before peak detection chargers and all ya had was the timer..............but we will see they will find a way to make them safer lighter stronger and more reliable not to mention cheaper.....we are the pioneers so its up to all of us to figure it out dont wait for the manufactuars to do it its our responsibility as well

-
-kuzi-

ForestCam
11-21-2005, 11:23 PM
This domain name has been temporarily suspended for exceeding the daily bandwidth quota. The site will be automatically turned on again at 12:00AM PST (unless the site's allocated monthly limit is reached).

If you are the owner of this website, you can order more bandwidth here (http://support.globat.com/upgrade/bandwidth.php).

As the owner of a successful Website, it may be time to upgrade to one of Globat's dedicated server solutions. Please call 1-877-2GLOBAT for more information.
OOPS! We killed the poor guy's site.

Rugar
11-21-2005, 11:32 PM
OOPS! We killed the poor guy's site.

Rut Roe! :o

215 chief
11-21-2005, 11:42 PM
I fly with 2 large lipos a 3 cell and a 4 cell 8000mah. I took an old house fuse panel (the one with the mains in it) gutted it then lined it with dry wall inc the door, jointed all the seams and cut a hole for the leads. Then painted it red. my version of a battery bunker, at no cost.

R/C Gypsy
11-22-2005, 12:17 AM
After having two li-poly fires, one in which I almost lost my Van, I've chose to make sure all my batteries are in a fire safe while being charged.
You can purchase these fire safes at Walmart, Home Depot, and many other stores they are made of asbestos sealed in plastic. they usually sell for around 20 bucks. I cut a small hole in the lid seal to run the charging wires in. they work and work well, a close friend has already proven this.

Just make sure you close the cover.
Thes fires spit very hot embers of lithium for several feet. It looks like fire works going off.....so they must be in a covered container! The fire that almost cost me my van was in a pyrex dish, but I neglected to put the cover on.........luckly I was standing 3 feet away when it happened and could put all the little fires out.

Both times it happened it was my error, one time on a detecting charger, that won't charge if set wrong. The fire was because I mistakingly put a 3s and a 2s on in parallel thinking I had put two 3s on charge. too many packs lying around the charger. didn't even need the charger for that one they would have gone up anyway.

The lithium-poly batteries are a great asset to our hobby, but when you put alot of power in a small package it can be dangerous. So we need to protect ourselves from our own human error.
SPEND THE 20 BUCKS ON THE SAFE..........! Unless you think you never make mistakes !

pumper34x
11-22-2005, 03:44 AM
Its really unfortunate what happened here. But I have to agree with what was said in the early replies..."DON'T leave unattended" This sort of thing pops up from time to time on forums, and its going to happen, Sorry to say. State of the art "NIke" executive jets with the utmost attention and money spent on them mechanically are NOT perfect. But the "human error" thing had to have a play in it.

I say, until humans are as perfect as we think we are...... we should do nothing but blame other things for our mistakes:rolleyes: ...... and maybe eat more bananas:D but please no poop throwing......thats just gross:eek: .

savydad
11-22-2005, 04:24 AM
The fact that his bandwidth was overrun is actually a good thing, means it's getting noticed. I haven't plunged on lipos yet, but will hopefully real soon...i.e. christmas. The only lipo cell I have is the tiny 130mah one in my aeroace, which has a overcharge protection built-in. Kind of like the li-ion cells in my mp3 player, port. dvd player, etc...they are protected enough not to cause concern. I can GUARANTEE that when I do, it will be in a cinder block placed in my DRIVEWAY, not inside...like someone else said, you might contain the fire, but the fumes are toxic, and you can't contain those or the smoke if they are even in a garage. Sorry to hear of another fire, but if everyone treated them with respect, there wouldn't be so many of these reports. Like another said, unless the fire dept. was wrong (and they can be) this wasn't caused by the lipo, but if it was, he got lucky. His homeowners' likely wouldn't cover the claim if it could have been prevented by him and if a battery being charged was shown as the cause, that's preventable.

Todd

pumper34x
11-22-2005, 05:07 AM
I know I'm making this sound like no big deal. But I do watch my lipo's and have had crashs that made me run like a little girl turning to look back for the mushroom cloud. With that said, use your head. All our grand parents or great-grand parents said "those silly no good horse less carriages will never replace my horse and buggy.":eek: Next thing ya know! road rage

Don't blame the battery..... if you do....throw away your cancer causing cell phone....

Hey heres a wore out, sensitive one that I know I shouldn't start ,but what the heck. Did you know guns kill!?!? bad gun....BAD!!! Hey, DON'T blame the human...what ever you do!!!! :confused: :eek: :mad:

qban_flyer
11-22-2005, 06:01 AM
Could this be yet another case of Lipo's being blamed on a fire that was actually caused by something else? The Fire Department could be wrong blaming it on electrical that started the fire, but these guys see this sort of stuff everyday and I feel that they are probably correct as to the cause.

My feelings exactly. Their area of expertise is Fire Forensics and just as a Medical Examiner can determine cause of death, F.D. Investigators can pinpoint the cause of a fire.

I have a notion that if the fire had been caused by Li-Pos igniting, they would have found them to be cause of the conflagration. Not so in this case.

I have witnessed a three cell Li-Po pack "accordionized" after the plane took a death dive due to pilot error and self destructed upon impact on a concrete surface. The Li-Pos had been shrunken to one half their length, so we handled them as it had been a dead rat. Left them sitting on concrete for ever 45 minutes expecting the fireworks to begin any minute. Never happened. Batteries were disposed as indicated by the manufacturer. They never even get warmer than ambient temperature, much less ignite or explode.

qban_flyer
11-22-2005, 06:56 AM
"... connected one of the 1500maH
3-cell Kokam packs to the charging leads and placed the pack into the
ceramic container. I watched as the charger recognized the 3 cell
pack. I then proceeded to line up the other LiPo packs on the bench
while also observing the charger as it initially analyzed the LiPo pack (it
usually takes 3 minutes, according to the manual). After this 3 minute
period, I heard the charger then go into its normal charging mode (it beeps
once). I also noticed that the charger was charging at a 1300mA rate
and I was about to set it to 1500mA (1C) but did not (a little lower can't
hurt I thought). I then left the garage and went upstairs where I set..."

There are two things I note here in the above description:

1. He apparently didn't follow the 109 instructions and set to zero the charging current during Phase One. If he had, the current would have been zero in Phase Two, not 1300 as he described. Not sure why that would cause a fire, but it is part of the instructions for safe use of the 109.

Your reasoning could be a valid one since he missed one step in the set up procedure before charging the pack, and just as he casually left the charging rate knob where it had been, who knows what other steps he may have misssed also.

I've been told that a Li-Po fire can't be put down by regular means. I have been reading that the easiest way to extinguish one of these (if and when it happens) is by drowning the culprit pack under a mound of sand. I've read somewhere not long ago that Lithum fires burn like Napalm. We also know that a Napalm fire is not extinguished by water or fire extinguisher solutions.

So if Lithium burns like Napalm, how come he was able to put the fire down with two regular, run of the mill fire extinguishers? The photos in that page do not indicate as much damage I would expect to find on an item next to the fire's origin, in this case the A/F 109. How come it did not melt its case?

I have to side with the fire department in their assesment of the situation. It was a general electrical run of the mill fire, not one caused by careless handling of Li-Po batteries.

Don't blame the KOKAM packs and don't blame the A/F 109 charger. They are inanimate entities operated by a supposedly intelligent human being. In the unlikely event the fire was caused by the charger and batteries we have to consider that the 109 was improperly and carelessly set up, then the instructions we have been given by all Li-Po pack manufacturers were totally ignored by this person.

The lesson here is to heed the warnings. I have been using Lithium (notice that I said Lithium, not Li-Pos) batteries for over three years now. I treat them just as carefully as I used to NiCads and NIMHs before them. I treat Lithium batteries with the same respect I do a propeller, a knife and or scissors. Carelessness can turn each and everyone of those devices into dangerous if not lethal weapons.

BTW: I charge my Li-Pos at 70% of 1C.

Geoff_Gino
11-22-2005, 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frvrngn http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/images/images_pb/misc/backlink.gif (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2550#post23802)
OK, I have read, watched and listened to others on the dangers of LiPo's. Some people have never had a single issue with them, others like the fire post have serious issues with them.

What makes these RC LiPos so dangerous?? LiPos are used in so many things now and you dont see these kind of incidents. Now, granted we are on a worldwide forum so one persons bad incident gets broadcast all over quickly, but still. My cell phone uses Lithium batts and I have dropped, kicked, charged and discharged the thing thousands of times with no issue. My laptop has Lithium, and nadda. My digital camera and camcorder - nadda. MP3 player, no issues. Now you are even seeing TOYS with them installed (the Aero Hogs micro planes everybody loves has a baby LiPo). Now, its only charged by the transmitter pack, but its a Lithium battery. I would think that would be the last place you would want to mass produce and install them; a kids toy that is sure to be wrecked, stepped on, left in the rain, dog chewed, you get the point... if they are really so dangerous. I could just see the lawsuits now. Little Johnny's toy burst into an intense fireball and burned down my home. Or even, his little toy doesnt burst but instead leaks lots of deady fumes and now Johnny is in the hospital. Lastly, they are now showing up in power tools. Milwaukee just released their Lithium powered tool set. Now I know that I dont baby my cordless tools and every guy I have worked with doesnt. They get beat up like crazy. They also get abused like crazy, meaning used for things they really arent meant to be for. Again, seems like the last place you would want a "fragile and dangerous" Lithium battery to be is in a cordless tool that will be dropped onto concrete, tossed around, be used in extreme temps and weather, etc...

So whats the deal with rc packs? Cant they do something to make these things more robust and safer without having to resort to mega dollar chargers, taps, leads, testing equipment, etc. If a cordless tool pack can be dropped onto concrete and still work, why are rc packs so fragile? I have to think the cordless tools packs are padded inside their case, but again most cordless tools arent handled very gently. I also know that 99% of the people out there dont think twice about charging their lithium powered gadgets. Even if they did, they wouldnt be thinking it would turn into a giant toxic fireball if something happened.


Thing is. All of those other gadgets have taken as much of the "human" element out of the equation as the manufacturers can.

Mostly "humans" can't change the charge rate or set the cell count so the charger takes "charge" of the "human" element.

I have read all of the posts on the garage fire and really feel for the guy's loss. We should all heed the lesson to be learnt here - Do NOT abuse the LiPo's and NEVER go above 1C while charging and never get the cell count wrong.

If a LiPo on charge gets even slightly warm take it outside immediately, this of course means that the LiPo must be constantly watched while on charge.

How many of us walk away from the LiPo on charge and go and fly another airplane?

Will you let one crash while you run and try to put out the fire?

Geoff

P.S. All the above comes out of another thread which I thinks does belong here.

Art Lane
11-22-2005, 12:35 PM
:eek: Lesson learned?
Monitor while LiPo's are charging..... even when your havin your mornin coffee..
Keep em in a metal container, lined with fire retardent material.........
Enjoy using, but be careful, no, extra careful while charging and storing.
Art Lane
Indoor RC Chairman
MAAC 18441L

NCguy
11-22-2005, 12:41 PM
So if Lithium burns like Napalm, how come he was able to put the fire down with two regular, run of the mill fire extinguishers?


I think one possible explanation for that is that by the time he got to it the Lithium it was depleted and he was just extinguishing what the flames had contacted. In the videos I've seen lithium flames extremely high and hot (2000 degrees) but not all that long.

NCguy
11-22-2005, 12:53 PM
I really think a lot of people here are making excuses for charging indoors and monitoring because it is simply more convenient than charging outdoors. You can talk yourself into anything I suppose.

Can I say 100% that if I'm in the same room with a LIPO that I will catch it before it ignites and shut it down. No, I can't and in all honesty I dont think anyone here can in all cases.

Is it better to not leave unattended? In my opinion it is better for the thing to be safely outside on concrete and definately be unattended. Given the choice I don't want to be next one of these things when it ignites at 2000 degrees F and starts shooting toxic fumes and smoke over ten feet high.

To each his own I guess. I value my family, home, and other possessions a lot more than the convenience of indoor LIPO charging.

Art Lane
11-22-2005, 01:12 PM
To NC guy...
Yup! I agree... Do em outdoors, in a safe enviroment.......
But, when you JUST HAVE TO DO" EM indoor.... Use a fire proof metal container, on the cement basement floor, out of harms way (if that's possible) and charge....
And bloody well watch em while they are charging, keeping the proper fire extinguiser close at hand
Ya, I know, PAIN in the A..... but, if your afraid of problems, then damn well be ready for em.....
Or..... Do em outdoors, cold weather or not...
Art Lane'

qban_flyer
11-22-2005, 06:38 PM
I really think a lot of people here are making excuses for charging indoors and monitoring because it is simply more convenient than charging outdoors. You can talk yourself into anything I suppose.

Can I say 100% that if I'm in the same room with a LIPO that I will catch it before it ignites and shut it down. No, I can't and in all honesty I dont think anyone here can in all cases.

Is it better to not leave unattended? In my opinion it is better for the thing to be safely outside on concrete and definately be unattended. Given the choice I don't want to be next one of these things when it ignites at 2000 degrees F and starts shooting toxic fumes and smoke over ten feet high.

To each his own I guess. I value my family, home, and other possessions a lot more than the convenience of indoor LIPO charging.

I have always charged my Li-Pos inside a thick ceramic container with a lid on it while the pack is being charged. Only an explosion will allow a "possible" conflagration to begin if the pack were to fail.

I am not convinced this fire was caused by the batery pack or the charger failing to perform as specified. If the fire, and that is a big IF was caused by the charging of the batteries, the human side of this equation is the one that failed to perform properly. He failed to follow the 109's instructions to bring the charging rate down to 0 to begin with.

Astro Flight must have a very good reason for so demanding. He failed to do as instructed, so let us not blame the pack or the charger for his failures. Who knows what else he 'forgot' or failed to do? These devices will follow our instructions to the letter, if we fail to "instruct" them properly, we can't blame the device for our mistakes.

Then there is the fact that an alleged 2000 degree fire, next to the 109 failed to melt the closest thing to it (?). Nope! I am not anywhere near to being convinced this conflagration was caused by what he claims to have done it.
Can I say 100% that if I'm in the same room with a LIPO that I will catch it before it ignites and shut it down. No, I can't and in all honesty I dont think anyone here can in all cases. I agree 100% with this assessment. Even if I was next to the thing "if and when" a fire starts, there's no way I can put it off. I might be able to toss the thing out of the window, but the fire will keep on burning until the Lithium is depleted!

NCguy
11-22-2005, 06:51 PM
I am not convinced this fire was caused by the batery pack or the charger failing to perform as specified. If the fire, and that is a big IF was caused by the charging of the batteries, the human side of this equation is the one that failed to perform properly. He failed to follow the 109's instructions to bring the charging rate down to 0 to begin with.



I am really failing to see the significance here as to whether or not the source of the fire was the LIPO are something else. Even if it wasn't the LIPO that ignited - so what? Are we trying to make a case here that if it was something else that ignited that it would change anything?

I can't see how something else causing the ignition would change anything that has been said about proper precautionary measures. I can't see anyone making the case that even if all proper precautions are followed that there is 100% certainty that the LIPO wouldn't ignite. Even if there were 100% certainty I would never make the case that I or anyone else couldn't easily make a careless error like an incorrect charger setting.

So, even if it were something else that ignited what does it really change?

qban_flyer
11-22-2005, 07:14 PM
So, even if it were something else that ignited what does it really change?What part of the text located in the link about the "LI-PO FIRE DESTROYS MY GARAGE" did you fail to read?
So you're going to use Lithium Polymer Batteries ??
PLEASE BE VERY, VERY CAREFUL !!!!
By: Tom Laureanno, AMA #751764

THE STORY AS I REMEMBER IT...

Nice melodramatic headline like beginning, isn't it?

The link was posted to warn people about what a Li-Po fire "did" to this man's property. The man made everything very melodramatic to emphasize the fact that it was the KOKAM Li-Pos and or his Astro 109 charger the "culprit" in this instance. His florid use in the narrative leads me to believe he knows it was not the Li-Pos or the charger that caused the conflagration. IMHO, he wanted to get attention. Well, that he has achieved, though not the way he wished it to be.

The Fire Department determined the fire to have been caused by faulty wiring in the house, not the battery or his charging system. They are the experts, not him, not us, period! How do we know it was not his garage door electrical lift system the one that caused the fire? It was the sound of the door going up that "alerted" him to a possible problem, wasn't it?

If Li-Pos were burning houses down, don't you think they would have been outlawed as dangerous and possible lethal devices already? Don't you think we would be hearing about them constantly in the news media and hobby related publications? The media is "dying" to propagate bad news all the time, they like to sensationalize everything, yet we haven't heard about remote "toy plane" batteries burning people's homes down, have we?

Make no mistake about it, there is some danger involved when using and charging Li-Po batteries, though if used properly and according to manufacturer's instructions they are no more dangerous than a car, a gun or a knife.

Another thing to consider is the Li-Po manufacturers themselves. I only buy Li-Po packs made or distributed by reputable outfits. I won't buy them at bargain basement prices through eBay from an outfit outside the US mainland. Those who do so to save a few pennies have no clue as to what they are getting into.

NCguy
11-22-2005, 07:37 PM
The link was posted to warn people about what a Li-Po fire "did" to this man's property. The man made everything very melodramatic to emphasize the fact that it was the KOKAM Li-Pos and or his Astro 109 charger the culprits in this instance. His florid use in the narrative leads me to believe he knows it was not the Li-Pos or the charger that caused the conflagration. IMHO, he wanted to get attention. Well, that he has achieved, though not the way he wished it to be.


I didnt interpret it that way at all. If the guy was really trying to hide the fact that it was something else that caused the fire then why in the heck would he have said anything at all about the fire dept report? He said it because it was a very general report IMO and it could have meant anything started it.

Also, I believe this text was copied from somewhere else and this guy probably doesnt even know this thread exists. Its a pretty low blow to accuse this poor guy of this when he cant even defend himself. Besides that he said he was an engineer so he probably knows a lot more than you credit him for.


Make no mistake about it, there is some danger involved when using and charging Li-Po batteries, though if used properly and according to manufacturer's instructions they are no more dangerous than a car, a gun or a knife.


I agree those are all pretty dangerous items. And I am absolutely amazed that there hasnt been some attempts to curb the use of LIPO's. Charging LIPOS inside DOES leave a lot of room for HUMAN ERROR despite the fact that sometimes people do read the directions. And, I have yet to see instructions that advise you to charge in a fireproof vault or similar container. The fact that these cells haven't been outlawed yet, is, IMO just a matter of time. Hey McDonalds gets sued millions for making coffee too hot - give me a break !!. These cells WILL be replaced by something much safer - count on it. And in the meantime I do not plan on being the next victum.

hoppy
11-22-2005, 07:59 PM
Qban,
Reference:
"The Fire Department determined the fire to have been caused by faulty wiring in the house,"

Have you seen the Fire Department's report?

qban_flyer
11-22-2005, 08:00 PM
I believe it is the man's own web site. It is called "Tom's Radio Control (R/C) Electronic Gadgets and Projects Webpage". The man who suffered the loss is named Tom Laureanno, look at the URL!

Anyone who wishes to do so is invited to click on the "Main Menu" on the left column to see what the page is all about.

Modifications to everything R/C, including receivers, building "cheap" Li-Po chargers, power bus projects and the like.

http://www.laureanno.com/RC/fire-pics.htm

A sample from his page: I happened to run across a neat Lithium Ion/Poly charger on the internet while searching for cheap Lithium Poly cells needed to build some battery packs for my friend's GWS Tiger Moth (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHCK0&P=7). In the past, I have purchased from www.allelectronics.com (http://www.allelectronics.com/), a surplus electronics outfit on the internet. This charger is originally designed to charge Qualcomm cell phone battery packs by dropping them in the charging cradle. An dual LED on the unit tell you whether it is charging (red) or if the battery is done charging (green). The charger is powered from a "wall-wart", plug-in type transformer (12v DC, 300maH) which is also included in the cheap $4.50 price. In this project, I will show you how to add a charging pigtail to the unit, allowing you to charge 2-cell lithium ion or poly battery packs. Again, this charger is designed only for 2-cell LiPo packs (7.2-7.4 volts). I will also show you how to add a switch to the unit so that you can manually reset the charger (needed when you initially plug a pack on to the charger).

I will say no more.

L8R

NCguy
11-22-2005, 08:07 PM
I believe it is the man's own web site. It is called "Tom's Radio Control (R/C) Electronic Gadgets and Projects Webpage". The man who suffered the loss is named Tom Laureanno, look at the URL!

Anyone who wishes to do so is invited to click on the "Main Menu" on the left column to see what the page is all about.

Modifications to everything R/C, including receivers, building "cheap" Li-Po chargers, power bus projects and the like.

http://www.laureanno.com/RC/fire-pics.htm

A sample from his page:

I will say no more.

L8R



Nice try. This is almost exactly the same charger that tannic sells to balance lithium cells via the individual cell taps. According to Brian you could almost leave these connected indefinately because the current is so low. I emailed this guy Tom on his website to inform him of the attempts to slander his character. I certainly hope he gets the message and signs on to defend himself.

Rugar
11-22-2005, 08:28 PM
I am really failing to see the significance here as to whether or not the source of the fire was the LIPO are something else. Even if it wasn't the LIPO that ignited - so what? Are we trying to make a case here that if it was something else that ignited that it would change anything?

I can't see how something else causing the ignition would change anything that has been said about proper precautionary measures. I can't see anyone making the case that even if all proper precautions are followed that there is 100% certainty that the LIPO wouldn't ignite. Even if there were 100% certainty I would never make the case that I or anyone else couldn't easily make a careless error like an incorrect charger setting.

So, even if it were something else that ignited what does it really change?

I think you answered your own question here :

The fact that these cells haven't been outlawed yet, is, IMO just a matter of time. Hey McDonalds gets sued millions for making coffee too hot - give me a break !!. These cells WILL be replaced by something much safer - count on it. And in the meantime I do not plan on being the next victum.

The significance is that people read about fires like this and get scared to death of Lipo's when it may not of even been the Lipo's that caused the fire at all.

They then investigated the cause (for around 45 minutes) and came to the initial conclusion that it was a general electrical fire.

Why should Lipo's get the bad rap for just being in the same room? That would be like you and another guy being the only two in a store. The other guy robs the store at gun point and you were the one that took the rap for it. Why? Cause you were there.

hoppy
11-22-2005, 08:54 PM
I believe it is the man's own web site. It is called "Tom's Radio Control (R/C) Electronic Gadgets and Projects Webpage". The man who suffered the loss is named Tom Laureanno, look at the URL!
L8R

I'm missing your point. You said the fire department said it was caused by faulty wiring. Where did you see that? It's not on his URL!

qban_flyer
11-22-2005, 09:01 PM
Thanks Gerald. So well put!

Some people just don't seem to "get it". :confused:

I think I'll just unsubscribe from this here thread. It's becoming too confrontational for my taste. It's just like certain other characters do elsewhere here on Watt Flyer, confrontation is the name of their game wherever they go. :p

qban_flyer
11-22-2005, 09:13 PM
I'm missing your point. You said the fire department said it was caused by faulty wiring. Where did you see that? It's not on his URL!

Hoppy,

What part of the URL did you not read? What part of the "article" did you not read?

The URL clearly has /RC/fire-pics.htm within it: (http://www.laureanno.com/RC/fire-pics.htm).

As for the article? Here is the paragraph referring to the Fire Department's conclusions:
The fire fighters proceeded to knock down the sheet rock to be certain the fire had not spread, tearing half the wall and part of the ceiling down. They then investigated the cause (for around 45 minutes) and came to the initial conclusion that it was a general electrical fire. I myself am almost certain it was from the LiPo pack exploding (for what reason, I do not know).


When I post on a thread, I do so firmly based on fact, not innuendo. Both the URL and the "article" point to R/C as the root cause of the fire. Notice how this person states (and I am quoting him verbatim) that he is "almost certain it was from the LiPo pack exploding (for what reason, I do not know)."

The man himself states he is "almost certain" it was the LI-Pos, yet he doesn't give a valid reason for that belief. He doesn't have one, does he?

As for your previous post questioning whether I have seen the fire Department's report, I'll simply state that no, I have not read the report, but the man's own printed words on his own website clearly addresses this fact (paragraph pasted above).

Didn't you read the "entire article" before starting this thread with the URL linking to this particular "incident"?

hoppy
11-22-2005, 10:23 PM
qban, yes, I read the thread before I posted it here which is why I asked you the question. I knew before I asked you the question that the thread did not contain any references to "faulty wiring in the house" which is why I asked you where you read that. I doubt that the fire fighters have a category on their report form for R/C battery fire and assume that "general electrical fire" is a catch all for everything that can't be pinpointed. If they couldn't find a routine/typical cause like "faulty wiring" in 45 min, that alone steers it towards an unusual problem like maybe, a battery charging operation gone sour.......

But in any case, it's just another example of the damage that can be done by charging lipo's in a non-fire safe location. It's obvious to me from the writers description of where the flames were when he entered the garage and the damage done to the bench area that the source was near the bench.. My opinon.:)

tomapowa
11-22-2005, 10:56 PM
QBAN,
You really are a peice of work. I think you should sit back, soak it all in and hopefully LEARN something from all this. Where the heck did you read "faulty wiring"? My R/C gear runs off of a dedicated 15 amp breaker and I had two AF 115D chargers connected, including my 12V Tenma regulated power supply, that's it (definitely not overloaded).

My intent of this webpage was to simply make people aware of the dangers of LiPos, not bash manufacturers or people. I did not think it would get this public to be honest but I am glad to see that some actually "get it".

Here's a few more tidbits that should clear up some previous concerns/questions:

Regarding the Astroflight charging operation, I did not see if when in stage 2, it was still recognizing the 3-cell pack. I only noticed the current was 1300maH. Also, I have been charging LiPos for years now (been using them for 4+ years now) and never had an incident, not even a warm pack. I have been using the Triton charger with temp probe and all and never had a pack heat up or damaged in any way. My demise was not covering the pot. I would hate to think it was the charger but I know others said that there were 4-5 LiPo fire incidents so far this year that included the AF 109. I passed up the AF 109 many times because I did not like the auto-cell detect feature; I like to be in control. I started using 6s2p packs in my larger planes and needed a charger that would handle this capacity, hence I splurged for the AP 109.

The reason I am leaning towards a LiPo fire is because the pot contained the "burned-beyond-recognition" Kokam pack following the fire. It was located towards the back of the bench where nothing (at least it seemed) could have fallen into the pot to set it ablaze, in fact, the only thing left in the pot was the charred LiPo, including its Deans connector and all. My other demise was leaving the other LiPo packs on the workbench. These (at least 4 from what I could see) caught fire after molten plane had fallen down onto them. I also know a few Li-Ion cells I had laying around also exploded as later I found two cans clear across the garage floor.

The reason the firefighters were thinking it started in another location (i.e. power strip, cords, etc...) is because this is where they saw the most "melted ooze" on the bench and the most charring on the wall. What they did not know is that I had many foam and plastic planes (Zagis, Gliders, etc...) hanging on the wall just above that spot (4 feet to the left from where the LiPo/charger was). I tried telling them that but,... oh well, they have their job to do. Another important thing I did not mention is that the fire fighters were "dumb-struck" when I mentioned Lithium Polymer batteries. That night they were recklessly throwing them around in my garage and I went ballistic (no pun intended). After informing them of my concerns, they promptly disposed of them in a fire proof can they had. I think most fire departments need to be educated on the safety of such batteries... and I plan to work on this soon along with AMA.

Regardless what caused the fire, the object of this webpage is to make people aware of potential dangers. Complacency is what bit me on the butt and many people I know are utterly flabergasted because they know how safe and particular I can be.

QBAN, next time you decide to start bashing someone you don't think will respond... think again before hitting that submit button! You can now remove yourself from the thread as you previously promised. :)

qban_flyer
11-22-2005, 11:00 PM
But in any case, it's just another example of the damage that can be done by charging lipo's in a non-fire safe location.

Absolutey correct. Especially near wooden structures and or benches.

Li-Pos carry a certain amount of danger with them. It's the very reason manufacturers are so specific in their warnings on their websites as well as in the istructions supplied with the packs on to how they should be cared for and handled.

Users (I do anyway) should make sure they check the settings three times and carefully follow the instructions given by the manufacturers just to make sure every setting meet the pack requirements before pushing the charge button.

Just as important is the fact that a ceramic or some sort of fireproof container with its lid on is used during the charging process. The ones I use were fired at better than 1900 degrees Farenheit, so I expect them to allow me to reach them before an "accidental fire" gets out of hand. I also have a bucket full of sand next to the charging area in the concrete surface in my back yard, where I charge my packs before I go flying. I believe the sand will suffocate any possible fire within that container.

All of these precautions do not guarantee us that something won't fail, but if it does, at least we have done everything humanly possible to minimize any damage that may result from one of these devices igniting.

I don't charge Li-Pos at the field either, though I have seen many that do so with the charger and battery packs sitting on top the radiator support of their vehicles. I make sure my car is as far away from theirs as I possibly can park it, just in case. Better to be safe than sorry.

NCguy
11-22-2005, 11:12 PM
Tom, I just wanted to say that I am sorry for your loss and am glad you contained it as well as you did. I know I greatly benefited from the efforts you expended to share your experience and I have shared your links with many of my peers (sorry bout the bandwidth drain).

Your post really did serve to clear up a lot of accusations that were being thrown around and again thanks and welcome to wattflyer.

johnathan
11-22-2005, 11:30 PM
Wow Tom
Sorry to hear of your fire and such a loss of equipment. I do use a Pyrex dish with lid at home. And transport and store in a fire safe. I have 1 Fire extinguisher in the garage but am installing a second one now !

But I am guilty of charging under the hood of my truck unprotected.As are many of my flying friends ! This has caused me to rethink that and come up with a fix for Field charging. Johnathan

qban_flyer
11-22-2005, 11:50 PM
QBAN,
You really are a peice of work. I think you should sit back, soak it all in and hopefully LEARN something from all this. Where the heck did you read "faulty wiring"? My R/C gear runs off of a dedicated 15 amp breaker and I had two AF 115D chargers connected, including my 12V Tenma regulated power supply, that's it (definitely not overloaded).

My intent of this webpage was to simply make people aware of the dangers of LiPos, not bash manufacturers or people. I did not think it would get this public to be honest but I am glad to see that some actually "get it".

Here's a few more tidbits that should clear up some previous concerns/questions:

Regarding the Astroflight charging operation, I did not see if when in stage 2, it was still recognizing the 3-cell pack. I only noticed the current was 1300maH. Also, I have been charging LiPos for years now (been using them for 4+ years now) and never had an incident, not even a warm pack. I have been using the Triton charger with temp probe and all and never had a pack heat up or damaged in any way. My demise was not covering the pot. I would hate to think it was the charger but I know others said that there were 4-5 LiPo fire incidents so far this year that included the AF 109. I passed up the AF 109 many times because I did not like the auto-cell detect feature; I like to be in control. I started using 6s2p packs in my larger planes and needed a charger that would handle this capacity, hence I splurged for the AP 109.

The reason I am leaning towards a LiPo fire is because the pot contained the "burned-beyond-recognition" Kokam pack following the fire. It was located towards the back of the bench where nothing (at least it seemed) could have fallen into the pot to set it ablaze, in fact, the only thing left in the pot was the charred LiPo, including its Deans connector and all. My other demise was leaving the other LiPo packs on the workbench. These (at least 4 from what I could see) caught fire after molten plane had fallen down onto them. I also know a few Li-Ion cells I had laying around also exploded as later I found two cans clear across the garage floor.

The reason the firefighters were thinking it started in another location (i.e. power strip, cords, etc...) is because this is where they saw the most "melted ooze" on the bench and the most charring on the wall. What they did not know is that I had many foam and plastic planes (Zagis, Gliders, etc...) hanging on the wall just above that spot (4 feet to the left from where the LiPo/charger was). I tried telling them that but,... oh well, they have their job to do. Another important thing I did not mention is that the fire fighters were "dumb-struck" when I mentioned Lithium Polymers batteries. That night they were recklessly throwing them around in my garage and I went ballistic (no pun intended). After informing them of my concerns, they promptly disposed of them in a fire proof can they had. I think most fire departments need to be educated on the safety of such batteries... and I plan to work on this soon along with AMA.

Regardless what caused the fire, the object of this webpage is to make people aware of potential dangers. Complacency is what bit me on the butt and many people I know are utterly flabergasted because they know how safe and particular I can be.

QBAN, next time you decide to start bashing someone you don't think will respond... think again before hitting that submit button! You can now remove yourself from the thread as you previously promised. :)


Unlike you, I won't begin my reply by shouting your user ID, tomapowa, nor will I resort to name calling (piece of work?).

Nope. And I won't remove myself from this here thread because of you or anybody else wishes for me to dissaperar either. To quote from your web page once again:The fire fighters proceeded to knock down the sheet rock to be certain the fire had not spread, tearing half the wall and part of the ceiling down. They then investigated the cause (for around 45 minutes) and came to the initial conclusion that it was a general electrical fire. I myself am almost certain it was from the LiPo pack exploding (for what reason, I do not know).

The only obvious thing that will cause a general electrical fire is faulty wiring. That includes house wiring, shorted outlets, fuses, breakers, extension cords, power strips and the like. A general electrical fire is not started by flammable accelerants, it is caused by faulty electrical conductors, period. The very reason it is referred to as "general".

Now onto the rest of your post. You clearly state "you are leaning toward the Li-Pos as the cause of the fire". Leaning in that direction doesn't make it so. The Fire Department inspected your damaged premises, they came to a conclusion: it was a "general electrical fire". They are the experts in fire fighting, not you, not me, not anyone on this forum unless they happen to be firefighters.

It is nice for you to come in here now to fill in the blanks (tidbits as you call them) that should have been included in your original web page to begin with. What you wrote in there was a rather brief and melodramatic narrative of your unfortunate mishap. The things you left out of your narrative left the whole thing wide open for many different independent interpretations and opinions to be formed. You left it wide open for interpretation by the individual reader. My intrerpretarion of your narrative? You are/were Li-Po bashing. Want me to be more specific? You were bashing both KOKAM & ASTRO FLIGHT since you didn't convey a complete picture of the situation. You just conveyed certain selected facts and many photographs, not the whole scenario. You had a fire, and since you have assumed it was caused by the KOKAMS or the ASTRO charger that is the way you presented it.

May I humbly suggest that you go back to your website and add to your narrative all the things you left out? It will prevent future misunderstandings by readers who just happen to stop by accidentally or by way of linking to a thread such as this one.

It would also help if you were to scan the Fire Department report (covering your vital statistics of course) and post it along with the miriad of photos you have seen fit to publish. Let the reader have complete access to the entire thing, not just part of it. If you are going to publish something on the web, allow whoever may stop by to check it out to be ale to see everything pertaining to the subject being discussed there. In this case, the fire in your garage.

I don't think it is asking that much, is it?

Rugar
11-22-2005, 11:52 PM
My demise was not covering the pot.

Not only that, but also:


Regarding the Astroflight charging operation, I did not see if when in stage 2, it was still recognizing the 3-cell pack. I only noticed the current was 1300maH.

But the biggest, and the most important part IMHO, is that you left them unattended to start with. As I said in a earlier post, I charge mine in the house, and by doing so, I can keep a VERY close eye on them.

NCguy
11-23-2005, 12:09 AM
I think I'll just unsubscribe from this here thread. It's becoming too confrontational for my taste. It's just like certain other characters do elsewhere here on Watt Flyer, confrontation is the name of their game wherever they go.

Hmm.

Guess you decided:

1. Not to unsubscribe as you whined that you would
2. Decided to continue being confrontational

I have never seen anyone so completely paranoid that someone is bashing a LIPO. Come on man. Who on this site doesn't use anything but LIPOS??? Nobody is trying to run off kokam, astro flight or anyone else. I really think you don't get it. Nobody is "bashing" anything. If you consider a "watch out" or a "this is what happened to me" bashing you really are developing quite a case of LIPO paranoia and you are being quite personal about it.

Why don't you take a deep breath and relax. I really dont care if you stay in this thread or not but for your own benefit maybe you should consider unsubscribing.

tomapowa
11-23-2005, 12:13 AM
Gerald,
Why rub salt in the wounds? I admitted I was at fault.
I just want to make sure others do not become complacent.

QBAN... I will not waste my breath/typing on your rediculous posts. Read it which ever way makes you happy, as I know others know better.

qban_flyer
11-23-2005, 12:16 AM
Hmm.

Guess you decided:

1. Not to unsubscribe as you whined that you would
2. Decided to continue being confrontational

I have never seen anyone so completely paranoid that someone is bashing a LIPO. Come on man. Who on this site doesn't use anything but LIPOS??? Nobody is trying to run off kokam, astro flight or anyone else. I really think you don't get it. Nobody is "bashing" anything. If you consider a "watch out" or a "this is what happened to me" bashing you really are developing quite a case of LIPO paranoia and you are being quite personal about it.

Why don't you take a deep breath and relax. I really dont care if you stay in this thread or not but for your own benefit maybe you should consider unsubscribing.

I believe my post was addressed to somebody else, not you.

PLZZZ! Let us not resort to name calling, OK? It is against Watt Flyer's rules to do so.

And once again, I have no clue as to who you may think you are to decide what is benefical to me or not. Let us stay out of each other's way, shall we?

BTW: I won't bother to reply to any of your barbs again either. :)

Rugar
11-23-2005, 12:41 AM
Gerald,
Why rub salt in the wounds? I admitted I was at fault.
I just want to make sure others do not become complacent.



Your correct. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have went there. I'm just trying to make a point for people to realize how important it is to monitor when charging.
I'm very sorry for your loss.
And BTW, Welcome to WattFlyer

Mike Parsons
11-23-2005, 02:19 AM
Guys, keep the posts on the subject and off of each other please. If someone bothers you, then by all means please place them on your ignore list as that is what it is there for. Thanks for you help.

-Mike

guapoman2000
11-23-2005, 02:30 AM
The pictures of that referenced web site is just too sad for words....this poor man lost not only his models, chargers, transmitters, receivers, etc...but, most importantly his memories as he was certainly attached to some models from many years back.

The good thing is his house did not burn down and certainly no one that I could read was hurt.

I am going to most certainly keep myself in my garage while charging these and any battery!

I have seen a Ni-MH explode and catch fire so, Li-POLYs are not the only ones that can give someone a bad day!

Thanks!
Carlos:)

hoppy
11-23-2005, 02:44 AM
Tom,
Thank you for posting your unfortunate experience. It could happen to any Lipo user and hopefully, your pictures and descreiptions will save some other modeler from a similar experience. The more we use them the less cautious we become...the old famiarlity breeds contempt idea. A wakeup call every now and then is needed to keep our focus on the possibilities of an accidental ignition (regaredless of the reason). There have been over 120 incidents reported to date that I have seen and I have gathered them together for informational purposes. http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1584

Once more, thanks for the information..... it could save someone else's property or maybe even a life...... I'd say that was a worth while post.

Geoff_Gino
11-23-2005, 05:49 AM
Tom

I really appreciate your post and sharing of a horrible and frightening experience with, as one post puts it "thousands of LiPo users".

I know that I have learned from your experience no matter how the fire started or who was to blame.

It has taught me a valuable lesson.

On a different note, the name calling and accusations flying around are not helping your situation at all.
I do believe that I might get a "slap on the wrist" here but guys please quit with all the negativeness and blame.

The F.D. has by my reasoning absolved Tom of any blame and to start name calling and placing blame is surely not the object of this forum.

Tom thanks for having the guts to admit that you were partly to blame and "OH YEAH" I have learnt from your post.

Geoff
South Africa

savydad
11-23-2005, 08:02 PM
Tom, first I am very sorry about your loss...I would be devastated if something like that happened to me. Welcome to the forum, and don't be swayed away by some of the others making bad comments. I have no doubts that you are a good contributor and understand your reason for posting this on the web. I feel for you and very glad that you didn't lose more than what you did, even though it was very much.

Carlos, well said, it isn't just lipos that can go up in flames.

For the others, bickering about "general electric fire" ANY battery charger is conceived by a fire dept as "general" so if the fire stemmed from a charger, plugged into a wall outlet, this is how they could put it. I'm glad he has came here to clear things up, and the fact remains that the fire is most likely to have started from his charging point. He has said this himself. The big point remains, I have learned a lot from his loss, and I'm sure others will. The reasoning behind his website, is informing others, not bashing. I didn't read the article thinking anything about brands, as I was in disbelief from looking at the pictures before even getting to the article. It wouldn't matter what brand was involved, just the important information, such as the headline "BE VERY VERY CAREFUL" nuff said

Todd