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mtuhoop24
12-05-2007, 04:04 AM
Well I have it finished. I was talking to BiPlane Murphy and he wanted me to do a build thread but I was almost done with the plane so I really couldn't.

What I can do is comment on how wonderful the plane is too build and how sleek and great the lines are. It was a breeze to put together and the scale components are fantastic.

Here is the set up:

Power 25 Motor (550W)
ESC 60 Amp with add on BEC
2 11.1v 2200 20C batteries hooked in parallel
12X8X3 Master Airscrew Prop

I went with the 3 blade prop to keep the scale look and it does look great!

It looks so good that I am afraid to fly it.....the biggest mistake was buying it during this time of year. We just had 3 inches of snow here in the Chicago area.

buzkil
12-05-2007, 04:57 AM
I got one coming in a few days. Sort of a christmass present from the wife, with my infuence.;-) I'm going with the light 3D set up. Just orderd the reciever, servos, servo extentions and a few build supplies last night. All that's left to get now is the battery.
I guess I pulled a fast one on the wife cuase she seemed a little shocked at the over all cast of it with the electronics. All I keep hearing tonight from her was that, "I was having a good Christmass this year!":D Yes I sure will!! Can't wait to see that santa dressed in brown!

Biplane Murphy
12-05-2007, 05:08 AM
Well I have it finished. I was talking to BiPlane Murphy and he wanted me to do a build thread but I was almost done with the plane so I really couldn't.

What I can do is comment on how wonderful the plane is too build and how sleek and great the lines are. It was a breeze to put together and the scale components are fantastic.

Here is the set up:

Power 25 Motor (550W)
ESC 60 Amp with add on BEC
2 11.1v 2200 20C batteries hooked in parallel
12X8X3 Master Airscrew Prop

I went with the 3 blade prop to keep the scale look and it does look great!

It looks so good that I am afraid to fly it.....the biggest mistake was buying it during this time of year. We just had 3 inches of snow here in the Chicago area.

You could always put Skis on it....:D

Glad you started a thread even though you already built it....:)

mtuhoop24
12-05-2007, 01:20 PM
Thanks Murphy........I don't think I am up to the skill level of a lot of you to do a build thread justice.........I will give it a shot next plane....if the plane is worthy!

I need to fly!!

Madman
12-06-2007, 03:38 AM
The UPS truck is due tomorrow with mine.
It's coming with:
Torque 2814/820 brushless motor (38A, 518W, 5.04 oz)
AirBoss Elite 45A brushless ESC
TP 4s-2200 Extreme V2 LiPo batt
APC 12x6E prop
4 ea HS-65 karbonite ball-bearing servos

Since I, too, would love the 3-bladed "scale" look, intuitively I would migrate to a 3BL 11x6E. I was wondering what led mtuhoop24 to a 3BL 12x8? That seems like too much prop to me. What am I missing?????

I'll try to remember to export some build-photos, if anyone is really interested. The Manual really has some dandies, though, so I may just be replicating those. We'll see.

We have 12-15 ft breakers on the Pacific today, but certainly don't have Chicago's 3" of snow to contend with. San Diego is a great place to fly.

mtuhoop24
12-08-2007, 12:34 AM
Madman.....Here is how I came to the 12X8X3 prop.

The motor that I have the Power 25 says that it is capable of turning a 14X7 prop.......I was reading that you can lower lower the length by 1 inch and either keep the pitch the same or go up in pitch when switching to a 3 blade.

So the plane recommended a prop of 12X6..........this led me to a decision to spin a 12X8X3......hope it works!

Rodney

Madman
12-08-2007, 12:46 AM
Rodney,
That's a pretty potent motor, there. Let me know how it works with your selection of prop. You might even want to run it up with a wattmeter in-line throughout your throttle range, and make sure your battery stays cool. My tummy tells me that's a pretty big prop for 3D with any longevity at all, but if it works for you, I just might give 'er a go, too. It ought to really climb out of a hover like none I've ever flown, I'll bet.

Good winds,
Bob

mtuhoop24
12-08-2007, 01:48 PM
Bob this probably will sound a little crazy but I didn't buy the plane for its 3D ability. I like the looks and I am more of a sports flyer, a few rolls, loops etc...........besides I am not that good at 3D and with a plane this beautiful the last thing I would want to do is crash it trying to do a harrier.

You have me a little scared now with the prop but I think I will leave it the way it is!!!

I will keep you up to date. We have 3 inches of snow on the ground and it is currently 13 degrees..........not the best weather to fly planes!!

Thanks

Rodney

gfdengine204
12-08-2007, 01:55 PM
Rodney,

The wattmeter suggestion is a good one. Do you have one? If not, I bet I know where you can borrow one.....:rolleyes:

Your plane looks awesome! I love the Pitts Bipes.

mtuhoop24
12-08-2007, 04:40 PM
Thanks Kev........it would be great to borrow a watt meter but that would just be postponing the inevitable. I should really get one and put it on the plane.

This is probably a good time of the year for those things because it will be a rare chance that I get to fly it!

haze_b
12-10-2007, 12:54 AM
Sweet looking plane. I wish they had a .40 - 60 size version. I'd definitely consider getting one. ;-)

mtuhoop24
12-10-2007, 02:03 AM
You should just get one of these anyway. Great plane and it goes together great!

Go ahead!

Rodney

buzkil
12-10-2007, 06:16 AM
Well I'm in the process of putting mine together now and rodney I just want to ask a question about your build. I noticed when putting the struts to the wings, the directions say use 1 2MM washer per screw. Did you put your washer on the strut side or the wing eyelet side. I put mine on the strut side because I didn't want the head of the screw digging into the wood of the strut. But common sense tells me that the nut would also need a washer because it just barely covers the wing eyelet. Seems to me that they should have given us 2 2MM washers per screw. I started out putting 2 washer per screw but found out that I was 6 washers short to complet the wing attachment that way.
So far so good on the build. I'll be starting on the tail section tomorrow.

mtuhoop24
12-10-2007, 12:32 PM
Buzkil....I only used one washer and it was on the strut side. The head of the screw would almost fit through the hole with out it.

I did the math on the washers and saw that I would be short as well so didn't put anything on the in side.

You probably have this figured out but save yourself a step and don't put the lower wing on until you have the servos in.

I can't wait to fly it!

buzkil
12-11-2007, 04:52 AM
Thanks, I believe your right. I'm gona have to pull the wings back off to do a little work on the fuse for the horizontal stab. Seems the builder didn't notch it out, so I have to do a little cutting on it so I can slide it in. Did you tint your canopy or does it just look tinted in your pic? I think that looks pretty cool.

mtuhoop24
12-11-2007, 12:57 PM
The canopy is a funny thing. I don't have canopy glue so I used CA.......well as I recall from an episode of McGiver that the fumes from "Super Glue" bring out finger prints. I put the canopy on and the the glue set.......finger prints, finger prints, finger prints.....it was really bad. My wife was laughing at me and I couldn't stand it. The plane looks so great but the canopy was a mess!

I took it off and took flat black spray paint and painted the inside of the canopy........the inside only......put a few coats on it and you can see the results. I think it looks great as well..................no finger prints!!!!!

And that's "the rest of the story" (insert Paul Harvey reference).

Biplane Murphy
12-11-2007, 07:27 PM
The canopy is a funny thing. I don't have canopy glue so I used CA.......well as I recall from an episode of McGiver that the fumes from "Super Glue" bring out finger prints. I put the canopy on and the the glue set.......finger prints, finger prints, finger prints.....it was really bad. My wife was laughing at me and I couldn't stand it. The plane looks so great but the canopy was a mess!

I took it off and took flat black spray paint and painted the inside of the canopy........the inside only......put a few coats on it and you can see the results. I think it looks great as well..................no finger prints!!!!!

And that's "the rest of the story" (insert Paul Harvey reference).

I have spraypainted several canopies black on the inside.....I like the way it looks....:)

buzkil
12-12-2007, 04:29 AM
I know what you mean about ca and clear plastic. I did the same thing on one of my other planes. No finger prints cause I cleaned the inside real good, just the white smoked look on the inside. After I did it I rememberd my plastic model building days when I once tried super glue to put on a windshield and it did that. I now have a bottle of canopy glue on hand. I may still get some model tint and tint it just a little bit. Maybe a yellow or a gold tint might look pretty good.
Well I haven't yet got a chance to work on my pits yet, just too many honey do's going on right now. I hope to have it done before christmass though.

mtuhoop24
12-12-2007, 12:23 PM
I will have to break down and get some canopy glue! That way I will have the option to paint!

Good luck putting the Pitts together!

buzkil
12-14-2007, 06:10 AM
Thanks!! Hopefully I can get to it this weekend. It's so painfull to see it everyday and no be able to do anything to it. All I got left is one more "honey do" (hopefully), and shes all mine!!:D;-)

mike early
12-17-2007, 02:50 AM
updates gentlemen!
any flying reports?

buzkil
12-17-2007, 03:55 AM
Not yet. I'm still in the slow building process when I get the time. Rodney I believe, is finished the build but is unable to fly due to the snow.

mtuhoop24
12-17-2007, 12:39 PM
That is right. It is killing me. 20 degrees and snowing all weekend. I did fly one of my planes but almost died of frost bite.........not going to maiden my Pitts in weather like that. I am nervous enough about it!

When it flies I will let you know!

Sorry!

gfdengine204
12-17-2007, 01:09 PM
Aw, c'mon Rodney, it wasn't THAT bad, was it? ;)

mtuhoop24
12-17-2007, 01:18 PM
Kev,

I will tell you that I am very nervous to fly the Pitts. I flew the 260 Extra on Saturday in the cold and wind and it was no problem. I had no business out there. But the Pitts really has me up tight......I am sure I will get over it!

Maybe I will have you over to watch the event!

buzkil
12-18-2007, 04:34 AM
I don't blame you Rodney, I'm nevous about my madien too, and the plane isn't even all together yet! I'm on the look out now for a bigger field/park to fly at. The park I usually fly at is too small. I crashed my ultimate twice there running out of landing room. I want to find a nice open field with no obstructions that will chase down and eat my planes.

mtuhoop24
12-18-2007, 01:17 PM
Fortunately I have a great place to fly with little to no obstruction. I am just nervous because of my ability.

It seems that I can maiden my Airfoilz 260 extra in 20 mph winds but don't have the nerve to fly the Pitts........of course I wouldn't do it in those kind of winds.........

gfdengine204
12-18-2007, 01:29 PM
Rodney,

If I am free when you get to maiden her, I would sure try to make it! Heck, I'll have to make sure my camera batts are charged. :)

Biplane Murphy
12-18-2007, 07:30 PM
Hi Rodney....when I maiden a new bird, I like to have a friend standing next to me......I call out how many clicks of which trim I need, and they reach over and use the trim levers so I can keep both eyes on the plane without fumbling around with trim levers....

ex. 3 clicks right aileron.....2 clicks down elevator.....1 more click right elevator.... etc.....

This helps alot.:)

Old Fart
12-18-2007, 07:37 PM
Also nice to have someone there on maiden to keep track of the time on the battery, help find the plane when you accidentally go into the sun, and run over and b*** slap the 3D heli pilot who just _has_ to practice the "spastic pancake" right in the middle of the approach pattern :)

mtuhoop24
12-18-2007, 07:52 PM
I would have to agree with all your suggestions. I have the advantage of not having others fly where I fly. I have the place to myself. The bad news is that it means I don't have anyone to help on a maiden venture. keV has volunteered and he lives within 30 minutes I think.

I will keep you posted!

gfdengine204
12-18-2007, 07:56 PM
eh, 30 miles sounds about right.....

Like I said, if I am free I would be a willing accomplice, er, uh, assistant. :)

Madman
12-18-2007, 10:39 PM
ex. 3 clicks right aileron.....2 clicks down elevator.....1 more click right elevator.... etc.....That last click of right elevator may get you in trouble. Doesn't the pair of elevator servos make your bird heavier than necessary?
(forgive me ... just being a smart@$$).;-)

Old Fart
12-18-2007, 10:41 PM
Bob, Bob, Bob.....what _are_ we going to do with you? :D

mtuhoop24
12-18-2007, 10:45 PM
Bob, that one just went right past me.............two elevator servos..everyone know that it takes two for the rudder and one for the throttle!!!!:<:

Madman
12-18-2007, 11:01 PM
Bob, Bob, Bob.....what _are_ we going to do with you? :DYou can start by wishing me a merry Christmas and a happy new year ... and no doubt I'd come right backatcha with a ditto. The McRaes all ready for a good holiday season? Haven't tagged with your Dad for ages. I just got back from Mission Bay after burning three packs in my PA Katana MD, and the weather was glorious (sunny, 59 degrees F and 4mph out of the northwest). Aside from the cost of living, San Diego DOES have a few surviving pluses. Can't wait to get started on my Pitts 12, but Santa has to let me uncrate it first, and she wants me to open it on the 25th ... darned conservatives and conventionalists. That's OK, I'm still working on my PA Addiction, anyway.
.....
mtuhoop24_ Bob, that one just went right past me.............two elevator servos..everyone know that it takes two for the rudder and one for the throttle!!!!:<:My smart alec comment referred to the use of the term: "right elevator", implying, of course, that there must be a matching left elevator somewhere in the mix. If you really have 2 on your rudder, you must have a giant, and that makes me really jealous. My giant days will come, next year, I think, though. I haven't given up on that crazy notion to electrify the H9 TOC 46% Ultimate. Sorry. Sometimes (too often in fact) the keyboard engages well before my brain does.:Q

Old Fart
12-18-2007, 11:08 PM
Bob, that one just went right past me.............two elevator servos..everyone know that it takes two for the rudder and one for the throttle!!!!:<:

Think "Right" and "Elevator" in the same sentence.

Bear in mind that I have a LOT (decade?) of "Bob" stories in my memory, so I "get" his sense of humor a bit easier :)

gfdengine204
12-18-2007, 11:08 PM
Bob, that one just went right past me.............two elevator servos..everyone know that it takes two for the rudder and one for the throttle!!!!:<:


Hmmmmm.... I use hydraulics for my elevators.....and belts for my escalators....:D

Old Fart
12-18-2007, 11:12 PM
You can start by wishing me a merry Christmas and a happy new year ... and no doubt I'd come right backatcha with a ditto. The McRaes all ready for a good holiday season? Haven't tagged with your Dad for ages. I just got back from Mission Bay after burning three packs in my PA Katana MD, and the weather was glorious (sunny, 59 degrees F and 4mph out of the northwest). Aside from the cost of living, San Diego DOES have a few surviving pluses. Can't wait to get started on my Pitts 12, but Santa has to let me uncrate it first, and she wants me to open it on the 25th ... darned conservatives and conventionalists. That's OK, I'm still working on my PA Addiction, anyway..:Q

Very Merry Christmas to you and yours Bob. My end of the McRae clan is doing fine - haven't talked to dad in a while, need to do that.

Took a whole truckload to Field of Dreams on Friday (literally had the whole bed of the F350 filled), found out my EDF F4D Skyray will NOT fly with 2 bad 1320/4S in parallel. And I hate Depron repair!

Madman
12-18-2007, 11:13 PM
Hmmmmm.... I use hydraulics for my elevators.....and belts for my escalators....:DMy club is the Silent Electric Flyers of San Diego, so the hydraulics might not be allowed on the field there. And, belts are for whuppin' them young'ns, so why on earth would you use them on your escalators (I looked up flight control surfaces in Wikipedia, and darned if I can find them escalators anywhere ... they the little triangle bejingies on the front of some airplanes?)
:D:p

mtuhoop24
12-18-2007, 11:15 PM
It looks like we all need to open our Christmas presents.........we collectively have lost our minds!

Old Fart
12-18-2007, 11:16 PM
Bob hasn't been the same after his "little escapade" involving the St Louis arch............ :0

Madman
12-18-2007, 11:27 PM
Bob hasn't been the same after his "little escapade" involving the St Louis arch............ :0Hey! It wasn't an "arch" yet!!! You just don't understand ... some things simply HAVE to be done.:blah:

gfdengine204
12-18-2007, 11:30 PM
It looks like we all need to open our Christmas presents.........we collectively have lost our minds!

I got one of my presents early. Today my wife gave me a Garmin for my HHR. :)

Old Fart
12-18-2007, 11:31 PM
Cool Kev!

I have a MAP 376C that I move between the truck, jeep and boat

Madman
12-18-2007, 11:36 PM
Took a whole truckload to Field of Dreams on Friday (literally had the whole bed of the F350 filled), found out my EDF F4D Skyray will NOT fly with 2 bad 1320/4S in parallel. And I hate Depron repair!If THIS is the one you're talking about,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LexdrVZkHuw&feature=related
then the problem is its top wing is missing!
(C'mon, man ... this is a BIPLANE thread! How DARE you mention a bird with a wings-deficiency!):Q

Biplane Murphy
12-19-2007, 01:06 AM
That last click of right elevator may get you in trouble. Doesn't the pair of elevator servos make your bird heavier than necessary?
(forgive me ... just being a smart@$$).;-)

HAHAHAHAHA.... I was typing quickly as I had to get going to work...I guess I should have previewed the post....:D:D:D

It should have read....right aileron....

rcproptester
12-23-2007, 06:12 PM
Have any of you guys seen a problem with the cowl or wheel pants looking cheap or the paint cracking? I was reading some stuff over on RCg, and there were several of the guys complaining about that.
I am supposed to have one saved for me at the LHS, and I'll get it on Fri. I hope.
Looking forward to seeing this one. From all I've seen of it it is a beautiful bird...

gearz
12-23-2007, 06:27 PM
Good job Mtuhoop24 on your finished lawn dart. :P

mtuhoop24
12-27-2007, 02:39 AM
Lawndart.....that is not the plan.......been having trouble with geese flying a little low. I hope to get it out this weekend!

gfdengine204
12-27-2007, 02:43 AM
Aw heck Rodney, fly WITH the geese. :)

mtuhoop24
12-27-2007, 02:46 AM
Those darn things made me crash my 260 today. I had to cut the landing a little short and cartwheel city. Got it put back together but was so pissed I didn't go back out!

I hope the weather is OK this weekend.....I will take it up!

gfdengine204
12-27-2007, 02:53 AM
Wow.....perhaps I should come out with a Remington shotgun and take care of those geeses for ya? :)

mtuhoop24
12-27-2007, 03:07 AM
They were as thick as black birds..........really made me mad!

gfdengine204
12-27-2007, 03:10 AM
I bet......dang birds....LOL

Old Fart
12-29-2007, 08:05 AM
Well the bad news is - Santa didn't bring me a 12E for Christmas (he decided to bring me a RED Nitroplanes Ultimate Biplane instead. :<:

The good news is - I did get a nice new $100 bill from my kindly old mother, which (with a medium sized bag of nickels), I traded to Rob at Rob's RC Hobbies for a shiny new 12E today :D

I'll build the Ultimate first, as I already have the Park 480, servos and all the other electronics. I'll order a Power 25 on Monday for the 12E. Plan on running it 3S with a 12x8 (identical setup as I have in my Great Planes Corsair), and on 4S with a 10x7.

What's everyone using for servos? The recommended MC35's are cheap enough.

Damn you Bob............. :D

Madman
12-29-2007, 08:35 AM
The good news is - I did get a nice new $100 bill from my kindly old mother, which (with a medium sized bag of nickels), I traded to Rob at Rob's RC Hobbies for a shiny new 12E today :D

What's everyone using for servos? The recommended MC35's are cheap enough.Hey, they're both bipes :$, and that's a GOOD thing!
I predict you'll like the Nitro Ultimate much better than my (R.I.P.) Ultrafly Ultimate ... but the Pitts is simply wonderful ...
My 12E is equipped with:
Torque 2814/820 brushless motor (38A, 518W, 5.04 oz)
AirBoss Elite 45A brushless ESC
TP 4s-2200 Extreme V2 LiPo batt
APC 12x6E prop (soon to be replaced, I think, by a 11X6X3)
4 ea HS-65 karbonite ball-bearing servos

C'mon down to Mission Bay for some formation flying.
Happy New Year.

Old Fart
12-29-2007, 07:53 PM
Thanks Bob. This will give me three bipes when I'm done (Nitroplanes and Ultrafly Ultimate, plus the Pitts). She looked so lonely on the shelf yesterday, I just _had_ to take her home.

Old Fart
12-30-2007, 06:44 AM
Bob - any particular reason you selected that motor (instead of the Power 25)?

Anyone want to chime in on how well the wheels and wheel pants will do on grass fields? I know they had to come off my Brio-10 almost immediately. The Pitts tires look large enough.

Madman
12-30-2007, 07:06 AM
Bob - any particular reason you selected that motor (instead of the Power 25)?My favorite provider is Atlanta Hobby, and they recommended the entire combo ( see http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=7141), which I bit on hook, line and sinker. I've bought several ARF combos from them over the past year or two, and they've not missed one yet insofar as performance and 3D behavior goes. I got my Ultrafly Ultimate elsewhere, and really was disappointed in its performance with the combo I bought there.

I have myself believing that recommendations by sellers who are also flyers is a good way to go, for me, even though I do check them out analytically on MotoCalc, DriveCalc and Electricalc to confirm before I buy. So far, so good.

compflight
12-30-2007, 11:58 AM
Hi fellow Pitts Builders
I have yet to choose a batt for the Pitts. Using a Power 15,]Just wondered what you guys thought of using this battery and what sort of prop and amps it would draw. I'm not really a 3d person just would like about 10minute sport/scale flights
* Capacity: 2300mAh
* Voltage: 4S 13.2V
* NiHM/NiCad equiv: 10-12 Cells
* Working Current: 25C (57.5A)
* Max Current: 30C (69.0A)
* Burst Current: 50C (115.0A 10 secs)
* Dimensions: L108 x H70 x 27mm
* Weight: 320g
Would love to hear from anyone who has an idea if this would work. since the number of charge cycles are much higher and you can quick charge the temptation is to try them. But its quite a price just for a gamble.

mtuhoop24
12-30-2007, 02:31 PM
Here is what I plan on flying:

2 3S 2300 11.1v Lipo set in parallel for my maiden and see how it reacts.

I hope to then fly:

2 4S A123 Li-ion set in parallel.

I have a 60A ESC and am running a Power 25 with a 12X8X3 Prop!

buzkil
01-03-2008, 05:07 AM
Well I just finished my build and just waiting on a batt to come in. Rodney was right about installing the servos and electronics before putting on the wings.
You may have to make some modificationsn on the main wing for the servos to fit. I had to cut one of the servo mounting blocks in half on each wing servo door to allow for the servo wire, and had to notch out the mounting frame to allow the servo mounting blocks to fit.
Also take care bending 90 degree bends in your servo linkages and expecialy the tail wheel wire. I broke one linkage wire and the tail wheel wire. The tail wheel wire I couldn't find a replacment so I used a coat hanger wire. It's not as stiff but I think it will work just fine.
I also didn't use the tail tenson wires so I used the extra screws left over to screw down the canopy insted of gluing it.
I sure did find it a lot easier to finish the model first then install the wings and tail.
I just got one small question...the directions didn't say anthing about air excape holes to allow the heat to excape....does anyone have an idea on where to put them?

compflight
01-03-2008, 10:18 AM
Air escape - good point. Has anyone had any problems if they left them out - just like I would have done if this hadn't been brought up!

compflight
01-03-2008, 10:20 AM
What would just one A123 4S be like.
Any chance of getting a flight time figure for a singel pack as I was thinking of trying one.

compflight
01-03-2008, 02:42 PM
The manual doestn show the motor standoffs which were included along with a addendum.
I assume these are fitted contrary to the instructions provided with the manual.
what have others done?

buzkil
01-04-2008, 03:56 AM
You need them to put the prop adapter past the cowling. I wouldn't use them to set the blind nuts, because they may start sinking into the wood and change the thrust angle. I used the motor plate to set the nuts first then removed the motor plate and put the spacers on.
Also, when you cut out the dummy radial only cut out between the cylinder heads to allow air to pass, don't cut off the perimiter radius that extends above the cylinders. This will allow a better glueing surface and allows the dummy radial to sit perfect in the cowling.

compflight
01-04-2008, 02:39 PM
You need them to put the prop adapter past the cowling. I wouldn't use them to set the blind nuts, because they may start sinking into the wood and change the thrust angle. I used the motor plate to set the nuts first then removed the motor plate and put the spacers on.

>Oops. too late. Will check on thrust angle.

Also, when you cut out the dummy radial only cut out between the cylinder heads to allow air to pass, don't cut off the perimiter radius that extends above the cylinders. This will allow a better glueing surface and allows the dummy radial to sit perfect in the cowling.

>I was just thinking about that.

Did you use any air outlet?

buzkil
01-05-2008, 11:39 PM
No I didn't cut any out. There is no frameing on the fuslage for it and I didn't want to cut a hole in the covering with out it being supported some way. No one else has said anything about it so it may not be a problem. Maybe if you can glue some wood between the longetudinal stiffiners and make a frame out of it. Then heat shrink the covering to them, you could cut out an escape hole. I may try that in the future if the heat builds up too much. I haven't gotten around to madien it yet so I have no clue if it will even be neccesary.

compflight
01-06-2008, 11:43 AM
The fuz is so capacious (is that a word?) that I guess it doesnt need any. Hope thats the case as I will leave mine unvented.
Any idea of flight duration with a 4s 2500 battery?

patnchris
01-06-2008, 05:52 PM
Has anyone gotten one of these in the air, yet....I want another plane, this size and need to decide between this and the Texan......Pat

Madman
01-06-2008, 06:52 PM
Has anyone gotten one of these in the air, yet....I want another plane, this size and need to decide between this and the Texan......PatStill building the Christmas gift, so no maidens to report just yet ... but, in case you haven't seen the videos at the E-flite site, I recommend you do:
http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFL2550
I'm a complete bipe-freak, so you wouldn't get an unbiased recommendation ... no comparison in my mind between the M12 and the Texan; since the latter is wing-challenged.:p

compflight
01-06-2008, 06:58 PM
No video of it there in a good 3D mode - not that I am of that genre but it would have been nice to see.

patnchris
01-06-2008, 07:18 PM
I was unable to upload the image of my bipe

Madman
01-06-2008, 07:27 PM
No video of it there in a good 3D mode - not that I am of that genre but it would have been nice to see.Went to youtube to look and see if anyone from the E-flite crowd has uploaded anything, and couldn't find any, but there's lots of good stuff there for the full-sized bird, as well as a few of the Carl Goldberg alternative, including this one which I was impressed with until the very end (yes, you may take that literally, sadly).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9pOV-g7qJE

patnchris
01-06-2008, 07:31 PM
search my username in the photo gallery if you want to see my bipe.....It's a .46 sized Ultimate, converted to electric. 5 lbs 1 oz. flying weight. w/700 watt power system....Not 3D but a real fun flyer....Pat

Madman
01-06-2008, 07:36 PM
Good bit of sport aerobatics here, but no spectacular 3D stuff ... but overall a good flying job by Big Mike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVcdN6Tah5c

Old Fart
01-10-2008, 08:50 PM
Was impressive - although I had to gag when the cameraman refereed to that beautiful BIPLANE as a "dubblewing" :)

(Probably the same guy that asked me if my 986 was "won of those fast Poorsh's)

Old Fart
01-12-2008, 02:28 AM
Well - I'm one step closer. Picked up a Power 25 at the AMA show in Ontario today. Just need to order my HS65HB's and an AR6200 and I'm good to go.

compflight
01-12-2008, 03:08 PM
I have a half doexen flights under my belt now with this very able machine. Using Flightpower EVO25 4S 2500mAH I am getting about 6.5minute flights with a Power 10 and a 5.5eAPC X 11 prop. This provides limitless vertical performance. The roll rate can be set up to be done before you see it as the ailerons are really powerfull. Put plenty of expo on those high rates!
I found the only thing is that it does like smoothish ground but now with 10g lead added to the tail this has actualy helped the ground handling.
ERal nice plane though.

Old Fart
01-16-2008, 09:59 PM
I'll be ready to start next week, came home yesterday and the dachshund had ordered (4) HS65HB's and an AR6200.

Good dog!

Madman
01-16-2008, 11:58 PM
I'll be ready to start next week, came home yesterday and the dachshund had ordered (4) HS65HB's and an AR6200.
Good dog!Truly man's best friend!
Still doing cleanups from the holidays, so mine is still in the box, also. The KMD and the Addiction still get a 2-4 pack workout a few times a week, but the M12 is suffering from benign neglect at the moment. It will get even with me, though. Flying weather in San Diego has been superb! Even the Santa Ana winds are gentler than usual down here this month; and not a flame in sight!

gfdengine204
01-17-2008, 01:15 AM
Rodney,

Any progress on the maiden yet?

Missed you at Hinckley last Saturday.

mtuhoop24
01-17-2008, 03:44 AM
No progress........the weather hasn't been ideal as you know..........are they flying again this saturday?

gfdengine204
01-17-2008, 05:16 PM
No progress........the weather hasn't been ideal as you know..........are they flying again this saturday?

Yessir, 6:30pm to 10pm. $6 and AMA card, includes pizza......

I will be there with my Jenny......hopefully she flies better this time.... :)

Maybe we'll see you there?

mtuhoop24
01-17-2008, 07:40 PM
Kev....do you have the address. I wouldn't come to fly.......I need open space and the ability to make a mistake. But I will come and wathc the experts. I don't have an AMA card but I wouldn't imagine I would need that to watch!

gfdengine204
01-17-2008, 08:00 PM
Rodney,

It is at the Hinckley-Big Rock High School, on US30 in Hinckley. The northeast corner of US30 and East Sandwich Rd.

And yeah if you are just watching I can't see them charging you a cover....LOL

Any problems, just PM me and I'll help with what I can. I'll be easy to spot - the guy crashing the Jenny. :)

Old Fart
01-17-2008, 08:45 PM
Truly man's best friend!
Still doing cleanups from the holidays, so mine is still in the box, also. The KMD and the Addiction still get a 2-4 pack workout a few times a week, but the M12 is suffering from benign neglect at the moment. It will get even with me, though. Flying weather in San Diego has been superb! Even the Santa Ana winds are gentler than usual down here this month; and not a flame in sight!

Need to finish the Dr.1 first, and maiden the P-38 before I start on the 12e

.....but soon!

Madman
01-19-2008, 12:42 AM
While I really don't think this is "one of ours", it's close enough to curl the old neckhairs. :blah:
Keep 'em 1 mistake high, folks! (or put wheels on the top of your top wing?)

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1004131/rc_crash_and_burn/

buzkil
01-21-2008, 01:37 PM
I believe your right, it's not an E-flite pitts. Our batt is easier to get to. Poor guy had to rip his cowling off to get to what ever was arching out.

buzkil
01-23-2008, 12:28 PM
Well everything is finished and ready for madien. Here is a picture of mine.

Madman
01-23-2008, 03:36 PM
Well everything is finished and ready for maiden. Here is a picture of mine.How did she balance out? Any recommendations for W&B?

buzkil
01-23-2008, 04:21 PM
I had to stick 1/2 oz of weight to the tail to get the CG for sport flying. I'm not familier with the term W&B. Could that be weight & balance?
Well I have no means of weighing her but I went with the recomendations for 3D flight if that helps any.

gfdengine204
01-23-2008, 04:28 PM
Buz,

She looks great! Good luck on your maiden!

buzkil
01-23-2008, 04:39 PM
Thanks!! The weather hasn't been very nice lately around here. We get some clear days inbetween the fronts. But the wind Dosen't stop blowing enough to try.

Madman
01-23-2008, 06:00 PM
I'm not familier with the term W&B. Could that be weight & balance? Exactly! Weight and Balance it is, indeed.
I went back through the entire thread and didn't see your contents. What servos, motor, ESC and batteries have you installed? Which radio are you going to maiden with?
She's really a pretty thing.

buzkil
01-23-2008, 07:38 PM
I went with the E-flite Power 15 BL Outrunner Motor, 950 Kv, E-flite 60-Amp Pro Switch-Mode BEC Brushless ESC, Propeller, 11 X 8E, JR 6-Channel UL Receiver, Loong max 2250 4S1P 25C Lipo pack, And for the servos, I orderd the recomended SM35 for $17.99 a piece from horizon, but they substituted them with another JR servo (I can't remember what they are at the moment) for $35.99 a piece without my consent. I inquired about it and they gave them to me for the $17.99 price. Horizon has the best customer service it think. Every time I had a problem with them they cleared it right up and left me happy.

Old Fart
01-23-2008, 07:53 PM
Bob, I think we should fly back and help Barry with his maiden. I need a break from "Januaryitis", and I can see several aircraft doing nothing but waiting for our use......

You _can_ fly a 777, can't you? (if not, I'll download the manual)

Beautiful build Barry!

Madman
01-23-2008, 10:17 PM
Bob, I think we should fly back and help Barry with his maiden. I need a break from "Januaryitis", and I can see several aircraft doing nothing but waiting for our use......
You _can_ fly a 777, can't you? (if not, I'll download the manual)
Beautiful build Barry!I'm game. Here's a pic of my last 777 landing. Need some more work on the sim. By the way ... think it might fit through "the arch"? If so, I'll file the flight plan.::o

Old Fart
01-23-2008, 10:26 PM
Of course it will fit through the arch !

(one way or the other)

On back approach today, all the traffic on 6L/6R heads straight for my office window ..... highly distracting!

My servos and RX for the 12E came yesterday, just need to build the A-10 first (was a 2006 christmas present)

buzkil
01-24-2008, 12:28 PM
Thanks Jeff! Yeah, you better brush up on your 777 training. New orleans runway 18 is a short one. You could always swing around to runway 08 if your unsure about your skills. Thats the long one. Just watch out for our famous New orleans pot holes!! LOL Anyway, the weather still stinks around here. These fronts sure do play havoc with us, 25 degress one day, 65 the next, and every time one swings though it brings rain.

erdmann
01-28-2008, 12:47 AM
what seros did you use

Madman
01-28-2008, 01:16 AM
what seros did you useIf you take the time to go through the thread, most of us have posted our equipment lists ... and there are at least 3, perhaps more, choices for servos so far. Mine are: 4 ea HS-65 karbonite ball-bearing servos

compflight
01-28-2008, 09:45 AM
I used ripmax SD200's all round - but they are not the strongest. imho.

killowatt
02-15-2008, 08:12 AM
anymore flight reports ? ...i read that most of u guys had to add weight to the tail so i opted for hs225's in the tail and hs81's in the wing ..im going to run the power 15, a hxt 60 esc and a castle bec (which i love, they are great.. only 22 bucks).
toying with battery options now i have a couple of 2200 4s evo-lites ,2200 hxt 4s, and a tp 33004s...any reccomendations?
anybody have trouble with the build ? mine was missing hardware ,on the trim u can read "oracover"plus the serial #'s which wont come off with alcohol, and the end of the fuse were the rudder hinge slots were cut was extremely weak, missing some lumber ...
i was a lil disappointed with this one, usually e-flites arf's are excellent ,i hope i just got a dud ..but i must say it does look awesome ...

Madman
02-15-2008, 03:22 PM
anymore flight reports ? ...i read that most of u guys had to add weight to the tail so i opted for hs225's in the tail and hs81's in the wing ..im going to run the power 15, a hxt 60 esc and a castle bec (which i love, they are great.. only 22 bucks).
toying with battery options now i have a couple of 2200 4s evo-lites ,2200 hxt 4s, and a tp 33004s...any reccomendations?
anybody have trouble with the build ? mine was missing hardware ,on the trim u can read "oracover"plus the serial #'s which wont come off with alcohol, and the end of the fuse were the rudder hinge slots were cut was extremely weak, missing some lumber ...
i was a lil disappointed with this one, usually e-flites arf's are excellent ,i hope i just got a dud ..but i must say it does look awesome ...
Not done with W&B, so dunno yet about ballast fore/aft.
Installed are:
Torque 2814/820 brushless motor (38A, 518W, 5.04 oz)
AirBoss Elite 45A brushless ESC
TP 4s-2200 Extreme V2 LiPo batt
APC 12x6E prop

No missing H/W.
No S/Ns on the covering to remove.
No missing lumber in the vertical tail assy, nor its nesting spot in the tail.
(sounds like in your case, a note to the MFR is in order for a new fuse, and replacements for missing H/W ... lemon laws apply?).
Mine did come with 10mm X 20mm hinges all around to replace the tiny little guys that were inserted at the factory. Glad for that.

killowatt
02-15-2008, 07:30 PM
Thanx for the response madman ,any clue on throttle time with your current set-up ??? im tryin to post pictures of mine and cant seem to figure out how to !!!i dont post to much here , i usually just read, so please bear with me .....I should be finished with the pitts tonite and hope to maiden saturday morning, the weather in n.c. is supposed to be perfect!!!
I will post my balance info using the mentioned batts, but i wont be using the 3300 tp 4s ,i flew it yesterday in my diamonte .25 , short flight about 5 mins (just enough to curb the craving)and this morning the pack is puffed big time ,dont know what happened , according to the meter the batt is 14.4 volts and each cell is within .01 v of each other ? first time i had a tp do it to me ,i have had plenty of cheapos do it from overdischarging due to inflated c ratings...its in the fire box now awaiting a response from tp(less than 6 months old with 34 cycles ,i keep logs)????

Madman
02-15-2008, 07:34 PM
Thanx for the response madman ,any clue on throttle time with your current set-up ??? Sorry, but I've gone brain-dead this morning.
Remind me what "throttle time" is again, please?????

buzkil
02-15-2008, 08:21 PM
Mine had had a little piece of balsa missing just under the cut out for the horizontal stab, but everything seemed to be ok with the placement of the rudder hinge so I didn't complain about it. I also had to cut out some balsa for the elevator deflection, seemed the original cutout wasn't enough. Still haven't madien mine yet. I did run it around the driveway and the ground handleing is amazing.

Madman
02-17-2008, 12:43 AM
...i read that most of u guys had to add weight to the tail ...If most of the folks installed their motors directly to the firewall as shown in the E-flite instructions, that could explain a more aft CG than those of us who bought our kits from Atlanta Hobby. In our kits, E-flite (or AH) provided a set of 4 ea 20mm long spacers to mount the motor 20mm forward of the firewall. The spacers are mounted with 2.5mm x 30mm socket head bolts, and are inserted into 4 ea 2.55mm blind nuts that you pull into the firewall from behind. That forward position of the motor left me with no problem with a too far aft CG, at first rough blush, using just finger tip balancing.

S'pose?

Madman
02-17-2008, 01:13 AM
By the way, I've seen a couple of Giants out there that are configured with the virtual cockpit shown in the attached. They look really super.
Anyone run into one (or the components thereof) for this sized Pitts 12?????

My search so far hasn't even yielded a good looking instrument panel head-on photo that I can copy and cut\paste onto the "dash".

Anyone else doing anything with the pseudo-"interior" of this cockpit?

killowatt
02-17-2008, 07:23 AM
Sory for the delayed response , got stuck working another tech's service area (bummer)!! so i did not get to fly the pitts yet...but i did finish trimming it out,and wow i think the hs225's are a lil over kill but they are really fast , dialed in some serious rates ...tested the motor out and the e-flite 15 with a 2100 4s 18c evo lite and an apc 12x6e it bursted at 38 amps settling down to 36 and making 425 watts ...so with those #'s i decided to trim the fat a lil by removing the hxt 60esc and castle bec and went with an turnigy 40 amp esc with a built in switching bec ...i have had great luck with their new esc's they put out 5.5 volts to the bec at 16.8 input..im going to see what the #'s are with a 13x4 in a.m will keep y'all posted and with a lil luck the rain will hold out and i will be able to also give a flight report:D56094

killowatt
02-17-2008, 07:35 AM
as y'all can see i figured out how to post a pic finally , sorry madman i almost forgot "throttle time" i ment run time ! i found with my current setup on the stand mixed throttle a fresh 2100 would get 7 min so i figure in the air using the servos it should be about the same...

56095

Madman
02-17-2008, 03:46 PM
as y'all can see i figured out how to post a pic finally , sorry madman i almost forgot "throttle time" i ment run time ! i found with my current setup on the stand mixed throttle a fresh 2100 would get 7 min so i figure in the air using the servos it should be about the same...

56095 Lookin' good, Killowatt ... I see you haven't installed the dummy radial engine, either? that's another possibility for an aft CG shift, although that thing isn't very heavy, it IS way up front. A little paint to spiff the dummy up a little will also pull that CG a bit forward if that's an issue.

OK, now that I know you're looking for run-time; you may recall that my setup includes:
Torque 2814/820 brushless motor (38A, 518W)
AirBoss Elite 45A brushless ESC
TP 4s-2200 Extreme V2 LiPo batt
APC 12x6E prop

With that I'm getting about 8-9 minutes on the deck running motor (RPM/thrust) checks, etc. I still haven't had my maiden yet, so I suspect that's going to come down into the 6-7 minute range once I get 'er up and work 'er a bit.

killowatt
02-17-2008, 04:34 PM
Momma cleared me for takeoff , im packing up and heading for the field ...i tried to balance it with my homemade cg machine as well as my top-flite machine with no luck!! so according to the ole finger tip shes right on the money at 3 and 3/4 + or - one finger tip :D will report flight info upon return!!!

Madman
02-17-2008, 11:47 PM
Has anyone felt the need to seal the Model 12's rudder, elevator and aileron gaps with 3M Blenderm or the equivalent?

killowatt
02-18-2008, 03:50 AM
well here it is the maiden flight data, first and foremost low rates for the first takeoff , it rolls like a rocket and the elevator and rudder are extremely effective!!!!!
after the maiden jitters i settled in , it flies great, goes where u point it ,vertical performance is nearly unlimited with my setup. on 3d rates the rolls were axial and blinding fast ...hovering requires a lil finesse as the rudder and elevator are substantial a lil input goes a long way...most basic sport aerobatics can be done on recomended low rates ...snap rolls were quick and easy .... 6 min flight with the 2100 evo-lite.....
the next flight i was ready, different battery hxt 2200 20c packs a lil more weight and a lil more of a punch..with the cg foward a little more i was in love(im more of a sport scale pilot ) smooth flyin ...but beware no power is not too good. i got caught on the low batt cuttoff in a climb, i was able to point the nose down and make to the edge of the runway ...looked like a pro ...i would hope hangar 9 takes the cue from e-flite like they did with the piper pawnee and make an imaa legal bird out of this one ....she's beggin for smoke
as for madmans idea of sealing the gaps i think its a good idea as she flies pretty fast and one of my buddys swears at the bottom of a big loop he heard flutter!!!!
Killowatt

Madman
02-21-2008, 06:38 PM
Anyone know what (white) covering is used on this Pitts 12? I've written to E-flite without response; and to AH, my selling distributer, without response. I have a little patching to do, and am wondering if the covering is Monokote, Orocover, Ultracote, Solarfilm, or something else? Hate to have a iron/heat-gun issue with dissimilar coverings at the edges of the patch. I've had adhesives release in flight in the past when they wouldn't adhere permanently to a particular plastic undersurface; even when they looked "stuck" at time of takeoff.

ksmoravek
02-26-2008, 06:19 PM
Got a eflite pitts and I want to know if anybody has comments on the eflite 15 motor vs the 25? Also, I have a 45a ESC (captain-orion) and want to know if that would be ok with either motor. I also want to use a 14v 2200ma 3 cell thunderpower elete. Any comments? This is my first serious electric.

Kevin

killowatt
02-27-2008, 02:27 AM
kevin ,i would say it depends on what kind of pilot u are and what u want from the plane , my opinion( and u know what they're like ) the lighter the better, it drops pretty quick with no power , this plane is extremely agile with my setup (power 15 ,hxt 40 esc,evolite 2100 4s, hs-81 wings , hs225 in tail) with a excellent 3d pilot on the sticks (not me ) i was amazed waterfalls, rolling circles ,the whole 9 yards..the only thing with my setup is flight time i wish it was a lil more ...heavy on the go stick =6 minutes...mixed throttle about 9 mins.. i have a 3300 4s on its way and i will post the nec data.....hope that helps ...

madman i sealed my tail with clear ultracote#hanu887 with out any heat problems...as for the yellow its oracover for sure, they screwed up and trimed out my plane with the last of a roll i figure cause u can read the words oracover i just cant make out the part #

Killowatt

buzkil
02-27-2008, 03:16 AM
I also want to use a 14v 2200ma 3 cell thunderpower elete.
Kevin
Did you mean a 11.1V ? Dosen't 14V fall in the 4 cell range? The manual says that it recomends the 15 for a 3d setup, I guess for the weight, and recomends a 25 for the sport setup, I'm guessing for speed. I went with what was recomended for the 3D setup, not that I can do that yet, I just wanted the plane to be light. As for the speed controler, I don't have any ampage measuring equipment so I just went with what was recomended. Killowatt went to a 40amp esc on a 15, i'm quessing with no problems but that may be too low for the 25. What do you think Killo, got a 25 laying around to test it?

killowatt
02-27-2008, 03:20 AM
as a matter of fact i do!:D give me a little and ill be back with the results!!!!

killowatt
02-27-2008, 04:04 AM
ok here it is on a 3200mah 3s 15c full charge 45 amps burst settling down to 42 turning a apc 12x6 ...they recommend a 12x8 which i dont have , i also tried a 13x6 with readings of 49 amps settling to 45...im sure with the recommended 4200 mah batt u might be able to get a few more watts at the expense of amps (heat)...i like the light setup but cant say about the power 25 setup never tried it ....i will say it flys like a bipe with no power it does not glide all to well, a lil nose down attitude is required to keep it flyin, i would figure with the extra weight it would be worse...but thats only my opinion:roll:

ksmoravek
02-27-2008, 12:47 PM
Hey, the webpage says to use: 2070mAh 4S 14.8V LiPo, 13GA I bought the new thunder power extreme 2200, same weight. FOR KILOWATT: do you think I will have problems running the 45A ESC? Thanks guys, you are all really helpfull, this is my first post.

ksmoravek
02-27-2008, 03:06 PM
Hey, here is a website that will custom design a virtual cockpit. I am going to go for it with my eflite pitts. You just cut templates and send them off.
http://troybuiltmodels.com/VC.htm

killowatt
02-27-2008, 09:08 PM
as for the power 15 and the 4s 2070 you should be fine ,i did not test the power 25 with 4s so i would assume the amp readings will be a lil higher ....im not at all familiar with your esc ..u need to find out what kind of bec its using, linear or switching and this is important ,the recommended servos draw a little more current then sub micros ,plus the conversion from 14.8 to 5 volts is difficult for a linear bec ...you can always disable the esc's bec and opt for a small reciever pack..

killowatt

ksmoravek
02-27-2008, 09:15 PM
thanks, killowatt. The ESC is a Team Orion Captain 45A. It is a linear BEC and I went with 32 oz high tec servos. I think it will be easier to just do what they say to do and pony up the $$$. Thanks, you may of saved a airplane.
BTW, did your cowl and weel pants look like sombody sat on them? I just noticed that mine are unusable and Horizon said that they will not be able to talk to me again about it untill april, when they expect a shipment. Bummer.

killowatt
02-27-2008, 10:04 PM
did u decide on the 15 or 25...the 45 will run the 15 with a little breathing room ,u just need to add a small reciever pack....25.00 for an expert 6 volt vs a 79.99 for a new esc ...i dont have any way to weigh out the one i have but its not enough to make a big difference plus u can move it around the airframe to aid in balance...oh and if u do decide on going with the reciever pack remember to remove the red wire on the esc reciever lead and tape it up ....batttery +bec =smoked esc:eek:

Old Fart
03-04-2008, 08:23 PM
Ok, just need to order an ESC for mine and I'll start the build (A-10 is just started (but I like having two planes building at once).

Need to decide between the Phoenix 45 and the Thunderbird 54..

Madman
03-04-2008, 09:30 PM
Ok, just need to order an ESC for mine and I'll start the build.
Need to decide between the Phoenix 45 and the Thunderbird 54..As a puppet of Atlanta Hobby (who's never let me down yet on all-up combos recommended by Cliff and company), I bought the ExtremeFlight AIRBOSS Elite 45A ... but my build is going more slowly than expected, also, so I haven't even done a bench run up yet to checkout the current draws with my Torque 2814/820 and the 12X6E prop I'm installing. I have had great luck with the Phoenix 45 mixed with a hacker on another 3D bird, but don't know how to draw the parallels to the Pitts 12. Keep us posted on your decision. I'm no help.:{

pvtzemerak
03-05-2008, 12:42 AM
sweet plane, im looking for it now :)

Madman
03-05-2008, 01:50 AM
sweet plane, im looking for it now :)If you want just the airplane:
http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=7040
or, if you want a really good dealer-recommended combo:
http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=7141

Good hunting .
Fair winds,

ksmoravek
03-05-2008, 01:07 PM
I just went with the 60 amp eflite, cost me a few bucks, but it IS a swtiching BEC and I've run a few batteries worth of load through it and it does not get warm with a power 15 on the business end. I'm glad I did it now so i dont have to worry.

Old Fart
03-05-2008, 07:42 PM
As a puppet of Atlanta Hobby (who's never let me down yet on all-up combos recommended by Cliff and company), I bought the ExtremeFlight AIRBOSS Elite 45A ... but my build is going more slowly than expected, also, so I haven't even done a bench run up yet to checkout the current draws with my Torque 2814/820 and the 12X6E prop I'm installing. I have had great luck with the Phoenix 45 mixed with a hacker on another 3D bird, but don't know how to draw the parallels to the Pitts 12. Keep us posted on your decision. I'm no help.:{

I run the Power 25/Phoenix 45/12x8E/(2) 2100 3S combination in my GP Combat Corsair, so I'm tempted to go that route. Will also (maybe) run 4S in the 12E (dropping the prop to 10x7), so it'll get a BEC.

I can pick up a new PH-45 from Castle for about $90 on sale now, or use my Tower gift cert and get a TB-54 from them for about $42. I dodn't have to adjust any of the parameters in the PH-45 for the Corsair, so the TB-54 bay suit me fine.

Old Fart
03-17-2008, 08:28 PM
Well, we stopped by Robs RC Hobbies on Friday after flying, a Phoenix 45 followed me home. Actually started the build Friday night, have 1 wing and the horiz stabilizer hinged (ran out of time and my cigar was finished) :(

Looks like the build goes fairly quick once the wings are done, going to re-read this thread now and see if there are any tips, pitfalls, or witticisms from Bob :)

Madman
03-17-2008, 10:13 PM
Well, we stopped by Robs RC Hobbies on Friday after flying, a Phoenix 45 followed me home. Actually started the build Friday night, have 1 wing and the horiz stabilizer hinged (ran out of time and my cigar was finished) :(
Looks like the build goes fairly quick once the wings are done, going to re-read this thread now and see if there are any tips, pitfalls, or witticisms from Bob :)Actually, Jeff, it looks like you're rapidly catching me in the build progress. I have all the controls rigged at this point, and just installed my own 45A ESC (Extreme Flight Airboss Elite) as shown. I'm about to power up for the first time after the electronics are installed, and don't anticipate any problems; but, as shown in the 2nd attached photo, am more than a little concerned about the (inductance coil?) slug in the line connecting the ESC to the THR control port on the AR7000 receiver. The geometry is such that the coil hangs in midair, with no OBVIOUS way to lash it down (other than lashing it with a zip-tie to the nearest structural cross member, which I've done) so it doesn't resonate inflight. I'm concerned that it might pull the connector out of the receiver, and then I think I might have a bad day. Anyone else run into a situation like this where the geometry leaves a dead mass hanging in one of the control wires going to the receiver?:{

Old Fart
03-17-2008, 10:20 PM
Bob, I don't like the tension on that plug at all. I'd certainly support the torroid somehow, and in a manner that would _prohibit_ it taking up any of that slack. I might suggest one of those tie down nylon adhesive mounts you use for attaching plant fronds to brick on the platform under the torroid, then zip tie to that.

Over on RCG reading the 41 page thread - do _you_ have any concerns with weight/robustness of the HS-65's for the tail?

Madman
03-17-2008, 10:35 PM
Bob, I don't like the tension on that plug at all. I'd certainly support the torroid somehow, and in a manner that would _prohibit_ it taking up any of that slack. I might suggest one of those tie down nylon adhesive mounts you use for attaching plant fronds to brick on the platform under the torroid, then zip tie to that.

Over on RCG reading the 41 page thread - do _you_ have any concerns with weight/robustness of the HS-65's for the tail?Need to go over and see what's being said lately. So far, when I wingtip balance the the bird with everything in place but not snugged down, it looks like my CG will be per the recommendations. While neither of the tail servos went in per the plans (actually had to do some surgery back there to discover that the pix in the plans were backwards from the servo-mounting structures in my bird), they are AOK with regard to weight. Won't really know about "robustness" until we fly the Pitts 12 15e. But, I have HS-65s in several other 3D birds, and they certainly are robust enough in those applications. I think they're a great servo design, personally. Lots of torque for such a little guy.

By the way, that's a great idea regarding the slug tie-down. Think I'll jump on that one. thanks.

Old Fart
03-18-2008, 10:18 PM
Both pictures shamelessly slurped off onto my USB drive for printing :)

What exactly was backwards? Gist on the other thread seems to be that you don't want to put the plane together in the order the manual indicates.

Madman
03-18-2008, 10:53 PM
What exactly was backwards? Gist on the other thread seems to be that you don't want to put the plane together in the order the manual indicates.On page 21 of the manual, the rudder servo opening is shown on the right side of the fuselage, just beneath the horizontal stabilizer. On mine, the opening just beneath the horizontal stab turned out to be on the left side of the fuselage :blah:(but I had to remove covering materials, because shining a flashlight through the covering from the opposite sides didn't reveal where the openings really were); and that's where I ended up putting the elevator servo. Then, on page 23, the lowest opening is shown on the left side of the fuselage, but as I said, mine was on the right. On my left side, the opening was just beneath the horizontal stabilizer, and that's where I ended up putting the rudder servo.

Does that make sense? Anyhow, the HS-65s don't seem to adversely influence the CG. I do have quite a bit of epoxy attaching the dummy radial engine to the cowl, and had to add some cardboard strips between the cowl and dummy engine to make it attach at a fore-aft location that would match my motor/prop/spinner stack with no excess gaps. That cardboard and epoxy probably pulled my cg forward a good bit. Once I get everything locked down and tight, I need to check my all up weight and see how heavy I might be due to the added epoxy and cardboard. Also, I attached the wings with much stouter bolts and nuts than the ones provided in the kit; and that's a little more weight also, but closer to the CG so while it might impact performance, I doubt if it will impact stability and control.

In any event, everything works just fine from the tail-end positions shown in the pix attached to my last post. I still need to heat gun or iron the patches in the covering I had to make to find the openings. But nothing matches the manual's pictures at the tail end of my P 12 15e.:roll:

Old Fart
03-18-2008, 11:01 PM
Thank you sir. If you get a chance - shoot a pic of your standoffs - I'm assuming I'll need to cut to fit to place the Power 25/prop in relation to the cowl where I want it (haven't checked my box o' parts to see if I was given any - that's on Thursday nights list of things to do)

Assuming the land of errant 767's and "soon to be seen" A-380's ever gives me a break, I'll try to drag some interesting schtuff south and split some air with you.

Madman
03-18-2008, 11:34 PM
Thank you sir. If you get a chance - shoot a pic of your standoffs - I'll try to drag some interesting schtuff south and split some air with you.Here are some pix of the way I stacked my front end. As a rank amateur I'd love to have you teach me to fly. Tell me about "interesting schtuff".

Old Fart
03-19-2008, 05:21 PM
Thanks Bob!

Hmm...Interesting....F-14 swing wing (twin Littlescreamers pushers). Sonic Liner (also a twin pusher). Throwing a FFF or Depron B-52 together next week (another pusher).

Have an EDF F4D Skyray that Corsair Nut built for me that I need to rebuild the nose on - it should be fun. Jetset44's Foker Dr.1 still needs a maiden, that might be good (how can anything with three sets of ailerons be anything but)

Have a new 36" wing that should see 140+ in a dive, need to find a big field to wring it out in :)

Madman
03-20-2008, 04:41 AM
... need to find a big field to wring it out in :)Great mix of fun birds! WOW!
Our all-electric site for the Silent Electric Flyers of San Diego [http://www.sefsd.org/] is right on Mission Bay, on the Eastern boundary of Sea World. Afternoon winds can be challenging, but most mornings and evenings are nice enough for even an amature like me. Lots of space (see it at http://maps.google.com/?ll=32.761926,-117.214186&spn=0.008751,0.014634&t=h and form your own opinion), but the runways are dirt and grass ... no pavement.

Hey! Which RCG forum were you referring to? The only Pitts 12 15e forum that I can find there is the one under 3D flying, and it's filled with enough adverse comments on our E-flite bird to make me want to cry. They seem to prefer the Israeli (ZeroGravity) 42" Pitts over ours by a bunch. Guess we'll have to finish our build, go fly, and see for ourselves whether or not we pull the wings off like that forum would have us believe is inevitable. Think I'll avoid waterfalls on my maiden flight, for sure.::o

Did you say you saw some inputs to an RCG thread on the Pitts 12 from me? Refresh my memory; I'm an old guy, remember?

Old Fart
03-20-2008, 10:49 PM
Yep, it's that thread:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=729036

Didn't see anything from you, and you're right - lots of bad press. As I have almost zero interest in 3D (and even less talent!), I'm taking it all with a grain of salt. I did snag a photo or two from there to assist in my build. Most of what I did find that seemed useful was in regards to build order - and the ball clevis idea for the aileron connectors and connections to the horns seemed pretty good

Tonight is build night for me (my planes are all over at a buddy's house), so I'll be deep into cigar smoke and CA tonight.

Need to get LAWA to absorb San Diego International - then I could come down on business!

Madman
03-20-2008, 11:22 PM
I did snag a photo or two from there to assist in my build. Most of what I did find that seemed useful was in regards to build order - and the ball clevis idea for the aileron connectors and connections to the horns seemed pretty good.
Tonight is build night for me (my planes are all over at a buddy's house), so I'll be deep into cigar smoke and CA tonight.
Need to get LAWA to absorb San Diego International - then I could come down on business!Yeah ... too late for me, though. I used the connectors that came in the kit from E-Flite, and did put on the heat-shrink tubing in hopes that the flimsy plastic clevises would stay closed at the servo arms and the horns.
Don't inhale tonite ... both cigar smoke and CA, and presumable a combination thereof, might abbreviate your longevity (look it up).:roll:
Are you planning to add the wire or carbon fiber lift and landing cross-wires to the wings as shown on a couple of threads on that RCG forum? I'm inclined to do that, but I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy.
Anyone ELSE on THIS forum\thread had wing-folding issues yet? Or those RCG 3Ders just too hard on the equipment?

Old Fart
03-20-2008, 11:29 PM
Funny thing - one of the regulars at our old field is a cardioligist - he told me that inhaling CA (especially kicked CA) was a lot worse than any of my Maduros...

Jury is out on the flying wires, looks like I can make that decision after the build is 99%. Wing won't need to come off for transport, so it won't affect my decision. (in other words - I'm waiting to see if YOU fold up YOURS first) :)

Madman
03-20-2008, 11:34 PM
I'm waiting to see if YOU fold up YOURS first :)That'll happen just about concurrently with LAWA absorbing SAN. :blah:

Old Fart
03-21-2008, 03:22 AM
LOL, we wouldn't know what to do with a 9400' runway anyway :)

Madman
03-21-2008, 04:33 AM
LOL, we wouldn't know what to do with a 9400' runway anyway :)How can you even SAY that? It's there for us to fly our Pitts Model 1`2 15e's, of course! What else is there?:p

Old Fart
03-23-2008, 08:19 PM
I tried that particular thread of "reason" with AirOps one day - they insisted that the west apron was for Real Planes. No sense of adventure they have, none at all. Obviously never were taught "sharing" in grade school.

Made some progress - wings are both done, HS-65 aileron servos in and extended. Had to put it aside for one night - decided the GP Corsair finally needed a rudder. Did get some of the 2-56 ball clevis' for the connections.

Madman
03-26-2008, 11:54 PM
Well, I'm almost there, and ran into a couple of surprises.

Like everyone else, those little kit-furnished C-clips were too much to deal with on the aileron rigging, so I chose to go with the heavier but more manageable connectors shown here.

I discovered, to my surprise, that I have a forward CG issue that I need to deal with. Here's the battery (TP 4s 2200mAh Extreme U2) showing it's too tall to fit between the elevated battery tray and the lower cross-beam of the rear battery-bay bulkhead (and forward cabane strut cross member). I tried to turn it sideways to get it further aft in the bay, but it's a little too long to fit completely sideways, and at the skew angle shown, the CG is still a little forward to the forward spec limit (which is 3-3/4 inches aft of the top wing's central (unswept) leading edge). Anyone got any ideas for pulling that CG rearwards short of adding ballast? (yech!).:blah:

I already installed the optional tail flying wires (and have not yet added the wing lift wires to inhibit folding; since with a forward CG, 3D is going to be pretty hard to do); but those wires are almost weightless, so no CG impact there. Guess all that epoxy in the cowl to glue in the dummy engine impacted me more adversely than I would have predicted ... DUH!).

If I do add ballast, you suppose gluing the lead weights externally to the forward clear phenolic vertical fin extension might work? Not much balsa structure in the tail that I can get to to glue weights internally ... although I guess I could open up the rear vent-holes in the rear-bottom skin a bit more to get my fat fingers in there.

Ideas?????

killowatt
03-27-2008, 05:29 AM
hey fellas ....
been away from this thread for awhile looks like you made serious progress madman....as far as wings folding i havent experienced any problems with that,my bird has probally got 30 + flights on it now ....i did how ever experience an in flight failure ,the bull@#$! alieron connector with e-clip fell off ....making it a little tricky to get home ...as far as your cg issues i would guess its from those little servos your using ...you may want to go with somethin a little stronger ....she does fly a little FAT and seems to require a little extra elevator and rudder when yankin and bankin....the 17 year old smarty pants 3D expert at my club really put it through a tough 6 min routine waterfalls included,no signs of weakness yet....personally i like it a lil heavy in the nose seems to fly better for me ...

Old Fart
03-27-2008, 04:21 PM
kW, that's making me happy I've decided to toss HS-81's at the tail.

Madman
03-27-2008, 08:09 PM
Still looking for an idea to get the CG aftward without adding lead to her tail end.

I sent a message to ThunderPower tech support:
I purchased the TP2200-4SXV\14.8V 4-Cell\218\33x32x107\104.99 from Atlanta Hobbies for use in my E-flite Pitts Model 12 15e, and just discovered that I have a forward CG issue. The battery as it comes from the factory, is too tall to fit in the ARF's battery bay, and I need to move it aft. Can I split the outer plastic wrapping without injuring the battery, so that I can cut its overall height in half; laying the two cell stacks side-by-side in the bay, rather than one on top of the other as it comes from the factory?If I could split the pack, essentially in half, I could maybe tuck one half through the upper arched opening in the bulkhead, and the other half through the central opening below the cabane strut cross member.

They answered promptly:
Removing the shrink wrap is not a problem, the problem you will run in to is the tabs are welded together and the cells have double stick tape holding them together, sorry for the bad news.I STILL need an idea, or I will have to add some tail weight. Any opinions on sticking the weights on the clear ventral fin?

killowatt
03-27-2008, 08:47 PM
instead of hacking the battery ,try adding some usefull weight ,put some hs81s or even hs225s in the tail (im very happy i did) .....that should give u the extra weight you need plus full deflection under a load....just an opinion and you know what they say about those and yes mine stinks!!!!!!!

Madman
03-27-2008, 08:58 PM
instead of hacking the battery ,try adding some usefull weight ,put some hs81s or even hs225s in the tail (im very happy i did) .....that should give u the extra weight you need plus full deflection under a load....just an opinion and you know what they say about those and yes mine stinks!!!!!!!Thanks for the idea, kW ... but to remove and replace my HS-65s at this stage would require that I untie all my internal cabling routed from the tail to the receiver bay ... and some of those extensions are in there pretty good. I think your idea might work well, but is better to implement in my case after a crash, during a repair. :sad: I can get the full deflections with the HS-65s, so I'm not sure your approach does anything for me but add weight ... which I can do with stick-on lead weights. What am I missing. Sounds like you're not enthralled with my choice of servos. Know something I should know about a HS-65 deficiency?????

killowatt
03-27-2008, 08:59 PM
i was just on e-flites web site ....yet another new bird coming out a 10 size ultimate bipe, looks pretty good .....might want to save the hs65's for the ultimate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

killowatt
03-27-2008, 09:18 PM
please dont get me wrong , i love hs65's ...ive got em in at least 4 planes a brio,mini funtana,mini ultra stick and my twin-star .....they pack a punch, but in my zeal to save a few grams on my ripmax spitfire i used them for the rudder and elevator , the plane has about a 48 inch wing span and a smaller elevator than the pitts....in a power dive i learned of the limits of the servo ...i backed out of the go-stick and was able to feather it out ...it did not strip the gears but it just could not give me the deflection i needed at high speed .....they may work fine on the pitts ,as far as the specs go there almost right in line with the recommended jr's....in fact im building a great planes pby now and as soon as i get off the clock im heading to my lhs and buying 2 hs-65's for it ....just figured it was an easy fix with useable weight, i also hate adding useless lead, nobody gets a free ride!!!!

Old Fart
03-27-2008, 09:22 PM
Bob, do you remember the length of the servo extensions for rudder/elev? Manual is over at my buddy's, will hit the LHS on the way over tonight.

TNX

killowatt
03-27-2008, 09:31 PM
manual says 9"

Old Fart
03-27-2008, 10:41 PM
Thank you sir. I scsred up the aileron extensions out of stuff I had on hand, but I know I cleaned myself out.

Bought some BSI IC-2000 ("rubber CA") yesterday, cleaned the LHS out of 2-56 ball clevis'. Should be able to get the fuse done tonight as I have a pair of HS-81's on hand.

Madman
03-27-2008, 10:53 PM
Bob, do you remember the length of the servo extensions for rudder/elev? Manual is over at my buddy's, will hit the LHS on the way over tonight.TNXThe manual calls out for 9 inch extensions, but Atlanta Hobby gave me 12 inchers in the all-up combo I bought from them, and I personally don't see how I could have made a 9 incher work. I used the 12" extensions, and didn't have a whole lot of play left to place my RX where i wanted it on the tray (underside of the "cockpit floor").

Old Fart
03-27-2008, 11:04 PM
IIRC, Hobby Pimple has 12" extensions in any case. Doesn't sound like a little extra wire weight is going to cause me any problem :)

Madman
03-27-2008, 11:36 PM
IIRC, Hobby Pimple has 12" extensions in any case. Doesn't sound like a little extra wire weight is going to cause me any problem :)Since those are in the back of the bus, they might be better for you; that is, if you overload the front end with excess baggage, like I did. I think I'll pull that 2 inch spinner, and see if that helps a little on the CG. I just really like the look of it. Also, haven't found a smaller one at the LHS' around here that fits my 5mm motor shaft.

Old Fart
03-28-2008, 01:58 AM
Picked up a pair of HS-225's and extensions just now. Also - their 5 day sale started, so picked up a Hacker A20-20L and Thunderbird 18 for my Ultrafly Ultimate Bipe, plus another Tbird 18 "just because" (probably go in the B-52)

Madman
03-28-2008, 03:26 AM
Picked up a pair of HS-225's and extensions just now. Also - their 5 day sale started, so picked up a Hacker A20-20L and Thunderbird 18 for my Ultrafly Ultimate Bipe, plus another Tbird 18 "just because" (probably go in the B-52)If yours is like this one, let me say that it wasn't a good choice for me. Lotsa grief during assembly, followed by an awful maiden that totaled it. I wish you much better fortune with your Ultrafly Ultimate than I had with mine.:sad:

If you want a REAL Ultimate, try the 46% TOC Ultimate at Hangar 9 :$... and if you find a motor\ESC combo that will 3D it, I'll buy you a beer (or two). I've been eyeing that one for two years now as a conversion from dinosaur fuel to electric. The motor guys and ESC guys are still "testing" the 15kW power packages that that 45 pound beast will require.::o

Old Fart
03-29-2008, 12:17 AM
Yep, that's the one. I've had it (in the box) for almost two years - several planes ahead of it on my build list.

Here's a few photo's of last nights progress.

killowatt
03-29-2008, 02:02 AM
Old fart
do i see deuce and a quarters (hs225) in the tail? at 6 volts u will be very happy, extremely fast plus they give u a little extra weight ....hs 81 in the wings?....good luck!!!!

Old Fart
03-29-2008, 05:46 PM
Yep, HS-225's in the tail - fit like they grew there. Running HS-65's in the wings.

Madman
03-29-2008, 07:59 PM
Here's a few photo's of last nights progress.If I could get my battery pack to open up and lay flat like that, I'd be in hog heaven. At $109 each, I sure don't want to just shelve those thick beasties I bought. Guess I'll head for the lead, and suffer the corresponding performance penalties ...:{

Old Fart
03-29-2008, 08:50 PM
Those are the oldest packs I have around (the date on them is "first charged") - pretty much limited to running in parallel in the Corsair (same powerplant)

My "purple" Hextronics 2200/20C/3S will also fit, my 2250/3S Loong Max _might_ fit - a bit too precarious on the build stand to play with that the other night.

I'll put the gear on next build night, plus install the cowl/fake radial (then pull it back off for the rest of the build), wings and tailfeathers - maybe 3 more nights to finish.

Resigned from my company this week (accepted a better offer) - will still be at LAX/ONT, just for someone else. Probably no Fridays off to fly for a while though :(

Old Fart
03-30-2008, 02:18 AM
Update - wandered over to my buddy's for a cigar - had to do _something_ for an hour. Swapped the HS-65BB's out for HS-81's

Old Fart
04-05-2008, 08:01 PM
'nother update (one of these days I'll remember to drag the camera over). Wings are on, tailfeathers almost done (right to the point of hinging the rudder when I ran out of maduro last night)

NOTE - do NOT trim the vertical stabilizer covering at the fuselage line without checking the internal balsa structure FIRST!

Mine was about 80% into "free air space" within the stabilizer - had to cut the bottom off of the vertical stabilizer and add balsa up into the stab, then reseal the coating.

Madman
04-05-2008, 08:16 PM
NOTE - do NOT trim the vertical stabilizer covering at the fuselage line without checking the internal balsa structure FIRST!

Mine was about 80% into "free air space" within the stabilizer - had to cut the bottom off of the vertical stabilizer and add balsa up into the stab, then reseal the coating.One of my next purchases was planned to be the E-flite DHC-2 Beaver 25e, but with the experience with the production quality of this Pitts model 12 15e, I'm having serious 2nd thoughts.
Perhaps you read the sterling review of the Pitts 12 in this month's Model Airplane News? Absolutely NO mention of any of the difficulties that we've been bombarded with on our workbenches and in the various threads at this and other forums devoted to building and flying the Pitts 12. Politics? BLECH!:(

The good news with mine is: I got the battery in sideways, far enough aft in the bay so that I only had to add 7 grams of lead to the clear plastic rear ventral fin. Yeay.:ws:

I'm about to proceed with programming my low and high rates in memory in my DX-7, and I think I'm just about out of excuses for not going out to try this beautiful looking, but questionable quality bird. No regrets, yet, though. Just 2nd thoughts on buying from a producer that would market something of this relatively poor quality compared to the others in my hangar. PA is such a good designer\producer.

Old Fart
04-05-2008, 09:12 PM
So far - the vertical stab is the only "aww $h1t" I've found - but I had the advantage of this thread (and the one on RCG after I boiled off all the whining and other stuff) for reference.

I gave up on ANY magazine reviews after Guns and Ammo's "sterling" review of the AMT Backup (only effective method to deploy that POS was to drop it from a C-130 on the target)

Voyager2lcats
04-05-2008, 11:00 PM
Jeff, I guess it would be safe to say you don't like that "pistol"?;) and just to stay on-topic: most magazine reviews tend to be public relations blather with little depth. Sometimes someone will sneak out of bed and write a critical review on something and really give you a reason to get it or forget it ever existed.

So far - the vertical stab is the only "aww $h1t" I've found - but I had the advantage of this thread (and the one on RCG after I boiled off all the whining and other stuff) for reference.

I gave up on ANY magazine reviews after Guns and Ammo's "sterling" review of the AMT Backup (only effective method to deploy that POS was to drop it from a C-130 on the target)

sswagerty
04-09-2008, 02:09 AM
????I believe I have setup motocalc with the exact recommendations for the 15 size outrunner setup from Eflite. Would someone check my inputs for errors. When I go to the opinion Motocalc indicates the things are going to get very hot and even flame.
Here is my screen:


MotOpinion - Eflite Pitts
1000ft above Sea Level, 29.92inHg, 55F
Motor: E-Flite Power 15 Outrunner 950KV; 950rpm/V; 2A no-load; 0.03 Ohms.
Battery: Eflite 2100mAh (20C); 4 cells; 2100mAh @ 3.7V; 0.008 Ohms/cell.
Speed Control: Castle Creations Phoenix 60; 0.0012 Ohms; High rate.
Drive System: 12x6 (Pconst=1.31; Tconst=0.95) direct drive.
Airframe: Eflite Pitts; 555sq.in; 61.2oz RTF; 15.9oz/sq.ft; Cd=0.044; Cl=0.15; Clopt=0.41; Clmax=1.07.
Stats: 168 W/lb in; 115 W/lb out; 20mph stall; 32mph opt @ 64% (17:04, 102F); 53mph level; 2125ft/min @ 48.5; -451ft/min @ -9.1.
Warning:
MotoCalc was unable to determine a throttle setting for hands-off cruise airspeed, so the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed and throttle setting will be used instead.
Inability to determine a throttle setting for an airspeed usually means the model is not capable of reaching the required speed with the given power system, or the airfoil information has not been specified correctly.
Possible Power System Problems:
The full-throttle steady-state motor temperature (387F) is extremely high, which will likely damage the motor unless full-throttle is used sparingly and cooling is good (even then, damage is possible).
The static full-throttle current (48.8A) exceeds the capability of the specified battery (42A at 20C), which will most likely damage the battery and may cause a fire.
Current can be decreased by using fewer cells, a smaller diameter or lower pitched propeller, a higher gear ratio, or some combination of these methods.
Power System Notes:
The full-throttle motor current at the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed (44.3A) falls approximately between the motor's maximum efficiency current (29.8A) and its current at theoretical maximum output (223.1A), thus making effective use of the motor.
The voltage (13.2V) exceeds 12V. Be sure the speed control is rated for at least the number of cells specified above.
Aerodynamic Notes:
The static pitch speed (51mph) is within the range of approximately 2.5 to 3 times the model's stall speed (20mph), which is considered ideal for good performance.
With a wing loading of 15.9oz/sq.ft, a model of this size will have trainer-like flying characteristics. It would make an ideal trainer, for use in calm to light wind conditions.
The static thrust (79oz) to weight (61.2oz) ratio is 1.29:1, which will result in extremely short take-off runs, no difficulty taking off from grass surfaces (assuming sufficiently large wheels), and vertical climb-outs. This model will probably be able to perform a hover or torque roll.
At the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed, the excess-thrust (44.7oz) to weight (61.2oz) ratio is 0.73:1, which will give very steep climbs and incredible acceleration. This model can easily do consecutive loops, and has sufficient in-flight thrust for any aerobatic maneuver.
General Notes:
This analysis is based on calculations that take motor heating effects into account.
These calculations are based on mathematical models that may not account for all limitations of the components used. Always consult the power system component manufacturers to ensure that no limits (current, rpm, etc.) are being exceeded.

Old Fart
04-11-2008, 03:25 AM
Found the second Aww $h1t. The tail wheel spring steel is about as brittle as a pretzel - snapped it off when I tried to bend it.

Suggestions? They don't list it as a spare part on the website.

Madman
04-11-2008, 04:12 AM
Found the second Aww $h1t. The tail wheel spring steel is about as brittle as a pretzel - snapped it off when I tried to bend it.

Suggestions? They don't list it as a spare part on the website.There are three variants of this Sig product (Small, medium, large). Haven't tried this one myself, but it looks like a good'un.
http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=7034

This Dubro looks a little small to me.:roll:
http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=6576
But, this Dubro looks perfect::red:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXRWW7&P=7

I have this one on two models, and I love it.:$
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCLK9&P=ML

Robart have definitely the coolest family, but prepared to take out a 2nd mortgage for those.::o

Old Fart
04-12-2008, 12:39 AM
I decided to try just rolling my own from some scrap piano wire - worked.

Madman
04-12-2008, 12:42 AM
I decided to try just rolling my own from some scrap piano wire - worked.So which key must your budding young pianists in the household now intentionally skip over?;-)

Old Fart
04-12-2008, 12:47 AM
Only "young" anything at our house is the dachshund - and Oscar has no musical talents that we're aware of.

Should be able to damn near finish the 12E tonight (assuming beer and cigars hold out)

Flew the P-38 again today, and yep - broke the &^%$#! counter rotating 8x6E - again :(

Might set the brake on those ESC's -see if I can get it to dead stick with the props horizontal.

Madman
04-12-2008, 01:01 AM
Should be able to damn near finish the 12E tonight (assuming beer and cigars hold out)I think mine is jinxed. I have to go back in and figure out why my TX isn't comm'ng with my RX, apparently. I plug in the battery, and the right aileron goes to the full-down position and chatters; and none of the other controls respond. I can't see if the RX light is on, the way I have it positioned inside the body cavity, so I'm GUESSING that somehow I've lost my binding between my AR7000 and my DX-7. Never ran into this issue before. So, I'll spend the morning unscrewing lower wing fasteners, so I can crawl in and check out whazhappnin'... I'd rather be flying ... although our club has a EMAC event tomorrow, so maybe it's better if I stay home and pout. How's beer and cornflakes sound for starters?::o

By the way, on the P-38, have you considered migrating to something like:
http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=5637
or
http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes

I haven't tried them, but only because the only props I tend to break (so far) are on motor-gliders without wheels, and I try to go with folding props on those.

Old Fart
04-12-2008, 06:23 PM
I had a good night last night (and a great cigar!), all that's left is the canopy. What's the general consensus on the need for the flying wires for acrobatic flight? same question for the clear fuse and rudder extensions?

If I am going to install the wires, i need to find hardware - the machine screws and nuts were all used up installing the wings.

P-38 has spinners Bob - I'd really have to think over prop savers. I'm going to try the next landing under very low throttle and see if that helps

Old Fart
04-22-2008, 09:33 PM
Somebody has to have an opinion on the flying wires :)

Anyone have a magazine handy? There's a service in most of the RC mags that offers hardware in small quantities)

No RC magazines at any of the stands at LAX - it's a conspiracy I tell you!

Ed Eflyer
06-12-2008, 03:43 PM
I think it's worth the time and small expense to add flying wires. Prior to adding them to my Pitts, there was plenty of wing flex if supported at the wing struts. After adding the wires, no flex at all. The piece of mind they provide (for me) is well worth it. I would hate to worry the whole time I'm flying that I might over stress the wings in some move planned or unplanned.

I posted information & pictures on RCgroups if if anyone is interested in the supplies I used, etc.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=729036&page=54

Ed

Old Fart
08-11-2008, 07:29 PM
Well, finally managed to get some time on the airframe. I think I'm going to go down to a 11x7E, the 12x8E is going through the battery a bit quicker than I'd like. Graph is Power 25, 12x8E, 3200/3S

mtuhoop24
08-11-2008, 08:25 PM
I use two 2300 11.1v in parallel with a 12X8E. Works great. I get about 10 -12 minutes at a little over half throttle.

I also use a 4 cell A123 at 2300mah............this I get 6-7 minutes!

Old Fart
08-11-2008, 08:28 PM
Which prop/motor are you using Rodney?

I _can_ stuff two 2200's in side by side. That's the same system I have for the GP Combat Corsair, which can stay up 15 minutes or more. My guess is that the Pitts is a wee bit "dragier" :)

Snap rolls on this plane are a real attention getter!

Ed Eflyer
08-11-2008, 09:12 PM
Hi guys,

I first flew my m12 with two 3s 2100 Thunder Power packs in parallel. I then tried a 4s 2600 Thunder Power Extreme pack - WOW. The last several flights have been with single 3s 2100 18-20c packs ($20 from Hobby City). I like the light feel it provides w/ plenty of power on tap. The 2 3s's in parallel provided more duration, but with a performance loss due to weight.

For sport flying, the single 3s gives me 6 minute flights w/ lots of loops, snaps, rolls, inverted, etc. with a nice light feel. I don't tend to fly wide open all the time, so the single battery setup works well for me. If I want a rocket or attempt a lot of 3d, I put the 4s in for that same 6 minute flight. Again, WOW.

I have tried several propellers and have found that the Xoar wood 13x6.5e works well for both 3s & 4s (if I don't get too aggressive w/ the 4s). The added visual appeal of the wood propeller definitely adds to the whole package as well. Highly recommended.

Oh, my motor is the Power 25 w/ the e-flite 60 amp controller.

Old Fart
08-11-2008, 11:50 PM
You folks with parallel battery setups, are they fitting nicely under the hatch without modifications? I'd love to run a pair of my Looong Max 2250's, but I'll have to start relieving that rear bulkhead.

Ed Eflyer
08-12-2008, 03:59 AM
I was able to use the 3s 2100 Thunder Power packs in parallel using the tray unmodified (just fit length wise). The 3s packs I got from Hobby City are longer & heavier than the Thunder Power packs I have, which caused a fit & c.g. issue.

I chose to drop the rear of the battery tray by cutting the rear support at each side of the tray & gluing in a new support on each side lower. This lowered the aft edge of the tray 1/2", which allows for longer batteries along with the ability to move them further aft for better c.g.

The above modification allows me to use a single 3s 2100 pack slid all the way forward (1/2 way into the motor bay), a 4s 2600 pack filling the normal battery bay area, or two 3s 2100 packs in parallel slid back into the aft area somewhat. All configurations allow the c.g. to remain set, so I don't have to re-trim each time I change setups.

As I mentioned in my previous post, for my type of flying, if I'm flying 3s, I much prefer a single 3s 2100 pack over the extra weight of 2 in parallel. Shorter flight times only allows for extra landings & this is a sweet landing biplane.

Those needing longer flight times or the higher discharge that paralleling provides, lowering the rear tray attach is a simple way of getting the space & c.g. needed.

Old Fart
08-12-2008, 08:44 PM
Ed, if/when you get a chance, a picture would be priceless :)

Ed Eflyer
08-13-2008, 01:30 AM
Here ya go. The 1st picture shows where I cut the support on each side. I then just glued in a new piece on each side lowering the tray 1/2". That's it! The other pictures show:
- single 3s 2100 pack all the way forward - I fly this setup the most
- two 3s 2100 packs securred part way in aft area (previously not accessable)
- 4s 2600 pack in it's spot
I tried to think of a harder way to accomplish the same thing, but finally gave up - Ed

Old Fart
08-13-2008, 05:15 PM
Thanks!

(more work for build night - may need a second cigar)

Madman
08-13-2008, 05:50 PM
Hated thoughts of cutting that transvers web, but Ed's transverse replacement beam looks hellbent for stout. Me? I'm going with popsicle sticks, straddling the aft end of the tray and CA'd top and bottom to the ring-bulkhead, and laterally to the remains of the original lateral web ... after all, isn't that why God gave popsicle sticks to us? They are the perfect length ... just needs a little squaring off at one end. That will allow me to stuff in my 1-1/4 X 1-1/4 X 4.5 TP Extreme V2 2200mAh 4S pack at last (yeay!).
(note to file: never buy an Extreme Flight Airboss ESC again ... STILL can't get that rascal to behave in my Model 12. Swap time ... CC ESC here I come)

Some day I might even get to fly this beauty.

No cigars, but I'm about to build a Multiplex Mentor for my grandson, and later use it as a tug for my first glider (identity still t.b.d.) when he graduates.

Old Fart
08-14-2008, 05:11 PM
Therein lies your problem Bob - the "magic smoke" that's contained in all ESC's comes from good cigars!

Going to do Ed's mod tonight (assuming I actually get to go home - it's been hell week at LAX)

Madman
08-14-2008, 07:41 PM
Therein lies your problem Bob - the "magic smoke" that's contained in all ESC's comes from good cigars!

Going to do Ed's mod tonight (assuming I actually get to go home - it's been hell week at LAX)I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Here're a couple of "befores" and an "after". My grandkids had no problem whatsoever cleaning off enough popsicle sticks for my project ... it's been HOT as well as windy here in San Diego.

Old Fart
08-14-2008, 07:52 PM
Don't think I have any full sized popsicle sticks - all we keep around is the Starbucks stir sticks (we have about 8 Starbucks at LAX) - but I'll put the nephew to work.

Old Fart
08-17-2008, 10:18 PM
Well, what do you guys think - medium CA or go straight to epoxy :mad:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u172/jmcrae94yj/IMG_0598.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u172/jmcrae94yj/IMG_0597.jpg

Madman
08-17-2008, 10:32 PM
Well, what do you guys think - medium CA or go straight to epoxy :mad: Oh, Jeff ... that really sucks. Please tell us that the cuts you made to the aft-bay bulkhead to accommodate bigger batteries didn't result in the whole front end departing the bird?

Old Fart
08-18-2008, 04:43 PM
I don't think that was the problem - but as that part of the fuselage was torn completely off (and was burning - popped a Zippy 2250/3S), hard to tell.

I lifted off, made one circuit of the field, was in a left hand knife edge (top of fuse towards me) and transitioned into a right hand KE - plane rolled straight down and never pulled out. One lipo burned, the other was trashed too. Plane hit hard enough to completely unplug every channel of the RX, plus pop it completely out of it's case (AR6200). The 11x7E was down to stubs - which tells me the prop was spinning when she went in (under power or windmilling unknown. Power 25 has a bit of burn damage - haven't plugged it and the CC45 back in to see if either works.

To top it all off - the cigar sucked. Punch "English Market Selection" - what was I thinking :)

Ed Eflyer
08-18-2008, 10:04 PM
Jeff,

Sorry to see your baby torn up. Mother Earth can be pretty unforgiving at times. Did it act like you had no controls functioning when it went down? From what you wrote, it sounds like an electronics issue of some sorts v.s. an airplane problem (ruling out thumbs of course).

I fly w/ some guys that would likely be able to rebuild it if it happened to them. They seem to thrive on challenge. In my case, I would likely swap the gear over to a new one if it all checked out ok.

I hope you're able to get this or another one airborne again. It really is a great flying plane when everything is working right.

Ed

bulldog319
11-23-2008, 06:56 AM
Just maidened mine today, Loving this airplane. This is my second fixed wing, the first being a Hobbyzone Super Cub that I put a spektrum 6100 and ailerons in.

I set the high rates to what the instructions called for low rate throws and I set the low rates to 1/2 the throw for low rate from the book. I ended up using high rate for the rudder and put in about 60% expo. used my low rate for everything else. Will probably put some expo on the elevator for the next flight day.

Wind about 5 kts straight down the 5300' MSL 500' long runway, club member did the first takeoff and landing, and I did the rest of the ones for the day. Really much easier to land than I expected, although the last one was a bit bumpy, no damage.

Using the Eflite Power 25, Eflite 60 amp ESC, 2 11.1 V 2500 mah batteries hooked up in parallel, JR MC 35 servos, 12x8 2 blade prop.

aircraft weighs 3 lbs and 12.8 ozs including 2 ozs of balance weight on the tail.

did the first few flights with the timer set to 5 minutes, Batteries recharged in about 10 minutes, last flight lasted about 11 minutes, and still had plenty of juice left considering the charge time was about 30 minutes.

This was my first fixed wing ARF and the build was pretty slow. Hardware kit was short on 2mm washers, and completely lacked enough hardware to mount the tail flying wires, Other than that it seemed pretty complete. The strut mounting holes did not line up well with the strut mounts on the wings. Balsa mount for wing servos were a little weak and also required trimming to fit in the wing after mounting the MC35's. The servo mount holes for the elevator and rudder were a little big for the recommended MC35's but I was able to get some good holes drilled and they seem solid, though I will be keeping an eye on them.

I used fishing line, swivels and CA for the wing flying wires, for the lower fuselage flying wire mount I used a brass strip epoxied across the lower wing saddle. Not real happy with the fishing line as it stretches easy and will probably try something else.

:)

bulldog319
12-01-2008, 09:41 AM
well, still love this airplane, but

1 day of flying with about 5 or 6 flights.

decided to try something different for wing wires and while removing the old ones noticed some softness in the bottom wing.

opened up the first bay from inboard of the servo on the left side of the bottom wing, and saw the top spar was cracked. found some more softness on the right side of the bottom wing. opened up the same bay on the right side and saw the bottom spar was cracked. top wing seemed fine.

epoxy is drying right now and hope to fly it tomorrow, but a little disappointed in the ruggedness of the wing to say the least. The flights involved some mild aerobatics on what the instructions where calling low rate throws. lots of rolls and loops. inside and outside snaps. One less than graceful landing but nothing even close to what I would think would have caused this kind of damage.

I still look forward to flying this plane, but will definitely be watching these wings.

????

bulldog319
12-01-2008, 09:58 PM
Thought I would fly it today, but.

Found some more softness in the bottom wing that I didn't see before.

Looked through one of the wing ribs and noticed that the next wing bay had a wood piece between the top and bottom spar spanning the width of the bay effectively turning the top and bottom spar into one spar.

after looking things over a bit I noticed that there where a total of 4 wing bays that are set up without this piece, not counting the wingtip.

I haven't opened the top wing up, but it appears that it has the same setup after gently squeezing the spar on each bay.

None of these top wing bays are damaged and I am guessing they used a heavier top and bottom spar judging from the fact that the spars that do flex do not seem to flex as much as the undamaged similar bay from the bottom wing.

My project for tonight will be to reinforce these bays on the bottom wing, and recover the holes. I am going to open the top wing and do the same.

EFlite is going to exchange the wing but I have to ship them mine first. Just have to wait for them to send me a prepaid shipping label. Once I do this I'll post whether the new wings have the same feature.

:{

Biplane Murphy
12-01-2008, 10:45 PM
.

Looked through one of the wing ribs and noticed that the next wing bay had a wood piece between the top and bottom spar spanning the width of the bay effectively turning the top and bottom spar into one spar.

after looking things over a bit I noticed that there where a total of 4 wing bays that are set up without this piece, not counting the wingtip.



That is typical wing construction...those balsa sheets are called "Shear Webs".....They connect the top and bottom spars. They are typically used in the middle bays, not all the way to the wing tips.
They give considerable extra strength to the wing in the middle, where the stress levels are higher.

bulldog319
12-02-2008, 06:23 AM
Thanks for the terminology, :ws: I need to find a reference to get educated a bit on some of this stuff.

The first bay that didn't have a shear web was pretty well inboard, the second bay from the balsa skinned center section.

I opened a Pitts box at the LHS this evening and it seemed like the Spars in that wing were a lot more solid, so I'm hoping EFlite stiffened them up since the production run on mine and the new wing will be a little tougher when I get it.

bulldog319
02-06-2009, 03:53 AM
Got the new wing in finally, Sent it off quite a while ago, and I guess it got lost in the shuffle.

Contacted Horizon via Email and they immediately shipped them out, Got them the next day after receiving the email that they were on the way.

Got the ship back in the air yesterday and it flies just as great as I remembered. The new wing does have the shear web in the bays it was previously missing on, and after two days of flying including snaps, tail slides, and lots of tumbles the wing is still nice and solid. (this thing tail slides beautifully)

Also seemed a lot easier to get things lined up on this wing. so maybe they have the QC going a little better now. Changed a few things around in the setup. Using a 13x6.5 and a single 3S 2800mah weight comes in a little lighter with 3 lbs 8 ozs. Tried 13x8 to get a little more vertical but still not enough to hover. Might try a 13x10, but for now the 13x6.5 seems like the right prop for this plane.

Filled my time while waiting with a 46" Hyperion Yak 55 and I am definitely a little spoiled now in the vertical performance department. But still the Pitts is a joy to fly and looks incredible.

Ron
02-26-2010, 06:43 PM
I don't quite understand the power systems
3 cell power 25 ..60 amp speed control...and 12 by 8 prop? I use a power 10 motor on 3 cell and it swings a 13X6.4 prop 45 amp speed control... has been for three seasons... on a 3D model....so I'm thinking to use the power 15 on 3 cells with a 13X6.5 prop...would likely be the lightest combination...maybe even the power 10 would work...if you check the KV of each motor, it seems there's some "funny" thinking going on here? I don't intend to use this as a 3D model, just a spirited sport/scale type plane.
power ten on 3 cells..13 X 6.5 prop gives 7850 rpm 38 amps..... in actual use

power twenty five on 3 cells 12X8 prop gives 7840 rpm...41 amps... calculated



I just ordered it this week..have been threatening to buy since it first came out, but scratch builds got in the way...now the bench is cleared off in anticipation.

RipG
01-14-2012, 10:52 PM
In case anyone is reading this... This appeal is still good on April 8, 2012! I need the parts.

As parts are extremely difficult to buy for the E-flite Pitts Model 12 [EFL2550], wondered if anyone has some used or new that they would like to sell me. Here is the list of items I need to complete a kit:

1. Wing struts and lower wing (2)

2. Pre-covered Wing Bolt support

3. Hardware bag

4. Tail wheel assembly

5. Tail wheel bracket (if not in hardware)

6. Wheels (2) (main)

7. Pushrod set

8. Flying wire set

Thanks. Please PM me with an offer. I'll make you an offer an a whole used plane--as long as the parts are still usable!

SkyCadet
04-08-2012, 10:50 PM
I recently finished my winter project, and have my Pitts almost ready to go. Just awaiting some 2800mAh 4S Lipos to fly her, and have just finished tinting the canopy a touch (need to cut it out yet!). I placed a checkered circle at the optimal CG for testing - looks good, but not visible in the picture...

Below is a photo of the nearly-completed bird... I did a few extras, like some reinforcements, battery tray lowering, mains gear inside re-inforcement, wing wires, and faux exhaust pipes next to the fake intake scoop, and white paint to the cabanes, screws, and connecter rod for the ailerons...

It's running an RC-Timer 900Kv, 770W motor and MAS 12x6x3-blade. My plane empty is 1425g (50.3 oz.). A bit heavier than stock, but I think that the extra reinforcements will help. Using Hi82MGs all the way around.

What do your birds run in at for empty weight, and CG before battery? I am just finalizing my plane for CG, and was curious...

Smooth skies!

SkyCadet

SkyCadet
04-08-2012, 10:56 PM
Nice!

Where did you mount your 2 oz. of tail weight? just curious...

TIA,

Skycadet

RipG
04-08-2012, 11:17 PM
I recently finished my winter project, and have my Pitts almost ready to go. Just awaiting some 2800mAh 4S Lipos to fly her, and have just finished tinting the canopy a touch (need to cut it out yet!). I placed a checkered circle at the optimal CG for testing - looks good, but not visible in the picture...

Below is a photo of the nearly-completed bird... I did a few extras, like some reinforcements, battery tray lowering, mains gear inside re-inforcement, wing wires, and faux exhaust pipes next to the fake intake scoop, and white paint to the cabanes, screws, and connecter rod for the ailerons...

It's running an RC-Timer 900Kv, 770W motor and MAS 12x6x3-blade. My plane empty is 1425g (50.3 oz.). A bit heavier than stock, but I think that the extra reinforcements will help. Using Hi82MGs all the way around.

What do your birds run in at for empty weight, and CG before battery? I am just finalizing my plane for CG, and was curious...

Smooth skies!

SkyCadet

Very nice. I like the 3-blade.

SkyCadet
04-08-2012, 11:40 PM
Thanks!!!! ;)

SkyCadet
04-09-2012, 12:13 AM
????I believe I have setup motocalc with the exact recommendations for the 15 size outrunner setup from Eflite. Would someone check my inputs for errors. When I go to the opinion Motocalc indicates the things are going to get very hot and even flame.
Here is my screen:


MotOpinion - Eflite Pitts
1000ft above Sea Level, 29.92inHg, 55F
Motor: E-Flite Power 15 Outrunner 950KV; 950rpm/V; 2A no-load; 0.03 Ohms.
Battery: Eflite 2100mAh (20C); 4 cells; 2100mAh @ 3.7V; 0.008 Ohms/cell.
Speed Control: Castle Creations Phoenix 60; 0.0012 Ohms; High rate.
Drive System: 12x6 (Pconst=1.31; Tconst=0.95) direct drive.
Airframe: Eflite Pitts; 555sq.in; 61.2oz RTF; 15.9oz/sq.ft; Cd=0.044; Cl=0.15; Clopt=0.41; Clmax=1.07.
Stats: 168 W/lb in; 115 W/lb out; 20mph stall; 32mph opt @ 64% (17:04, 102F); 53mph level; 2125ft/min @ 48.5; -451ft/min @ -9.1.
Warning:
MotoCalc was unable to determine a throttle setting for hands-off cruise airspeed, so the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed and throttle setting will be used instead.
Inability to determine a throttle setting for an airspeed usually means the model is not capable of reaching the required speed with the given power system, or the airfoil information has not been specified correctly.
Possible Power System Problems:
The full-throttle steady-state motor temperature (387F) is extremely high, which will likely damage the motor unless full-throttle is used sparingly and cooling is good (even then, damage is possible).
The static full-throttle current (48.8A) exceeds the capability of the specified battery (42A at 20C), which will most likely damage the battery and may cause a fire.
Current can be decreased by using fewer cells, a smaller diameter or lower pitched propeller, a higher gear ratio, or some combination of these methods.
Power System Notes:
The full-throttle motor current at the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed (44.3A) falls approximately between the motor's maximum efficiency current (29.8A) and its current at theoretical maximum output (223.1A), thus making effective use of the motor.
The voltage (13.2V) exceeds 12V. Be sure the speed control is rated for at least the number of cells specified above.
Aerodynamic Notes:
The static pitch speed (51mph) is within the range of approximately 2.5 to 3 times the model's stall speed (20mph), which is considered ideal for good performance.
With a wing loading of 15.9oz/sq.ft, a model of this size will have trainer-like flying characteristics. It would make an ideal trainer, for use in calm to light wind conditions.
The static thrust (79oz) to weight (61.2oz) ratio is 1.29:1, which will result in extremely short take-off runs, no difficulty taking off from grass surfaces (assuming sufficiently large wheels), and vertical climb-outs. This model will probably be able to perform a hover or torque roll.
At the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed, the excess-thrust (44.7oz) to weight (61.2oz) ratio is 0.73:1, which will give very steep climbs and incredible acceleration. This model can easily do consecutive loops, and has sufficient in-flight thrust for any aerobatic maneuver.
General Notes:
This analysis is based on calculations that take motor heating effects into account.
These calculations are based on mathematical models that may not account for all limitations of the components used. Always consult the power system component manufacturers to ensure that no limits (current, rpm, etc.) are being exceeded.

Can I suggest something?

If you have not purchased the motor yet, I recommend the RC Timer 900Kv. I have also heard VERY good things about the Power 30 motor (one guy I know did this with 4S and it Screams!).

The 900Kv will handle 770W max, with plenty left over. IMO, 2200mAh is way too small a battery at 3S to handle much more that 3-4 minutes max flight time. I did not see specifically what prop you had on there, but even a 12x8E prop will most likely pull 45+ A at 3S on WOT. Say 14-15A on cruise, and you're at 6 minutes best time before dead sticking it...

Running mine w/ 4S at 1/2 throttle, I have a MAS 12x6x3-blade, and my Watt meter read 14.1Ap at 209.4Wp - this is at 1/2 throttle (static)!

I did this indoors (rainy that day!) and did not wish to try WOT at the time, but I suspect given my past experience with MAS props (3-bladers) and such, that WOT will range about 35A or so, maybe 40. I run a 60A ESC so lots left over there. Batts can handle 100A draw continuous, and I am planning on initially using 2800mAh 4S Lipos. If this goes as hot as I expect it too, I may govern the throttle at 75% to save power, if it has plenty left for unlimited verticals. According to my cruise calcs at static, that gives me 9-10 minutes of flight time, at about 450Wp. Plenty left over!!! ;)

I will probably end up running 4S 4000mAh batteries later, but we'll enjoy it with the few 4S 2800s I am getting to start with.

SkyCadet