PDA

View Full Version : Anyone used a 400xt on gws warbirds?


k-vette
12-06-2005, 05:45 AM
Has anyone used a brushless 400xt on a gws warbird? I was curious on what the performance is like. I have one of these motors on my 3d plane, and it has lots of power, 20oz. of thrust. According to all of the numbers I've seen that's easily more than the 350 or 400 stock motors, plus it should save a little weight. What I'm hoping is that it'll have extra pulling power for some retracts... Besides, it's a well built and inexpensive little motor.;)

timocharis
12-06-2005, 06:29 AM
I haven't personally, but I know some others who have. It's easily strong enough. The problem is exactly what you see as a benefit: it's lighter, so the balance is thrown off and you have to be able to move the battery even more to compensate.

Otherwise I think you'd be perfectly happy with it. On the other hand, you could "bulk up" with the 450XT and watch the jaws drop ... it would be easier to balance.


Dave

rcers
12-06-2005, 03:33 PM
Yep it works great - 3s Lipoly and GWS hd 9x5 prop. 10 amps or so on that setup.

Mike

k-vette
12-06-2005, 04:20 PM
Hobby-Lobby has the 400xt on sale fairly often, so I may get another one of those. Any ideas on how much thrust the 450 puts out?

timocharis
12-06-2005, 11:05 PM
The Dr. Kiwi numbers on the 450XT were:
>27oz @~12 amps GWS 10x6
35oz @~15 amps GWS 11x7
Pretty severe...

Dave

qban_flyer
12-06-2005, 11:26 PM
Has anyone used a brushless 400xt on a gws warbird? I was curious on what the performance is like. I have one of these motors on my 3d plane, and it has lots of power, 20oz. of thrust. According to all of the numbers I've seen that's easily more than the 350 or 400 stock motors, plus it should save a little weight. What I'm hoping is that it'll have extra pulling power for some retracts... Besides, it's a well built and inexpensive little motor.;)

I maidened Twmaster's GWS ME-109 with a 400XT at the nose. Three cell 1050 VAMPOWER Li-Pos spinning an 8X6 propeller, TowerPro 15A ESC, three servo affair with GWS RX.

An absolute thrill. Just like my Zero, it ceased to be a ho-hum, rather boring model and became a high performance flyer. One capable of speeds in excess of 60 MPH WOT, easy inverted flight, rather nice axial rolls, spectacular snaps, yet slowed down to a crawl when throttled all the way back.

Loads of performance gained with no loss of its good slow flight characteristics. An inexpensive and thrilling combination in my book! :D

greenflight
12-09-2005, 02:46 AM
I have two xt's in my GWS c-47. Lots of power, maybe too much for a thing thats suppose to haul stuff. But then PUFF needs lots of huff.

Twmaster
12-09-2005, 02:52 AM
I have two xt's in my GWS c-47. Lots of power, maybe too much for a thing thats suppose to haul stuff. But then PUFF needs lots of huff.

Roger that greenflight. We have a fire mission for you....

:D

Twmaster
12-09-2005, 02:54 AM
As Qban_flyer mentioned my GWS ME-109 is a park missile with a 400XT on the nose. Setup as he described and was ballistic. Scary fast. (until I dorked it into terra firma).

k-vette
12-09-2005, 05:41 AM
Sounds like all I need to do is a make a final decision on which plane to get.:D Too bad the p-40 isn't out yet. :( Sorry about the crash Twmaster-That darn gravity is always trying to ruin our planes...

greenflight
12-09-2005, 02:23 PM
GWS p-40, wow been waiting a year for that one.

Twmaster
12-09-2005, 02:59 PM
GWS p-40, wow been waiting a year for that one.

Just like -every- other much hyped release trumpeted by Mr. Lin. :rolleyes:

qban_flyer
12-09-2005, 03:14 PM
I have two xt's in my GWS c-47. Lots of power, maybe too much for a thing thats suppose to haul stuff. But then PUFF needs lots of huff.

Mighty fine looking C47!

What size prop are you using with your 400XTs? 8X6SF APC with two cell Li-Pos will tame that beast somehwat. :D

k-vette
12-09-2005, 08:26 PM
GWS p-40, wow been waiting a year for that one.

I'm not even going to bother waiting for it. I think I'll go for the spitfire since I could get it in a few days, rather than a year from now. I still don't get why they do that.:confused:

Twmaster
12-09-2005, 08:29 PM
Woot! H-L has the 400XT back on sale at $19.90 until Dec. 12!

:D

k-vette
12-13-2005, 05:50 AM
Woot! H-L has the 400XT back on sale at $19.90 until Dec. 12!

:D

I grabbed one for my upcoming gws warbird, and another for...well I'm not sure what for. Cuz it was cheap I guess.:rolleyes:

VACaver
12-13-2005, 01:47 PM
Bought the 400XT on sale during Black Friday and have it mounted on my Corsair. Can't try it out until Christmas, though...Santa's bringing LiPo's.

Twmaster
12-13-2005, 03:00 PM
I grabbed one for my upcoming gws warbird, and another for...well I'm not sure what for. Cuz it was cheap I guess.:rolleyes:

In this case cheap = good! I have a cheap Chinese 15A ESC on mine and the total cost of the motor and ESC was $36.50 shipped. Un beatable performance for unbeatable money IMHO.

;)

qban_flyer
12-13-2005, 03:54 PM
I grabbed one for my upcoming gws warbird, and another for...well I'm not sure what for. Cuz it was cheap I guess.:rolleyes:

HAR:D, HAR:D, HAR:D!

I am glad I'm not the only one around. You'll love that motor on your GWS warbird. Turns a lame model into a tiger!

I had :o to order a few other things I needed so I did place another order yesterday. Glad they have extended the sale 'till the 14th, but no more 400XTs.:eek:

frvrngn
12-13-2005, 05:22 PM
I just noticed that! I wanted to grab a 400XT and they were gone :( Oh well, I know they will be on sale again sometime. I was excited since everything else looked to still be on sale.

qban_flyer
12-13-2005, 08:38 PM
I just noticed that! I wanted to grab a 400XT and they were gone :( Oh well, I know they will be on sale again sometime. I was excited since everything else looked to still be on sale.

I think they had a diarrhea of orders on them, so they pulled them out just as soon as the 12th rolled around. I am sure they'll have them on sale again before the 25th! :D

VACaver
12-24-2005, 10:51 PM
Flew my Corsair today with a 400XT, Phoenix 10 ESC, 3-cell LiPo, and a 10x4.7 prop...WOW!!!

Cruised nicely at 2/3 throttle...full throttle was too fast for me. Still not used to the plane, I think I'm gonna reduce the aileron and elevator throw a bit.

rcers
12-24-2005, 11:00 PM
Flew my Corsair today with a 400XT, Phoenix 10 ESC, 3-cell LiPo, and a 10x4.7 prop...WOW!!!

Just how many amps is that pulling? Here the GWS 9x5hd is all they can take...

Mike

qban_flyer
12-24-2005, 11:29 PM
Flew my Corsair today with a 400XT, Phoenix 10 ESC, 3-cell LiPo, and a 10x4.7 prop...WOW!!!

Cruised nicely at 2/3 throttle...full throttle was too fast for me. Still not used to the plane, I think I'm gonna reduce the aileron and elevator throw a bit.

Same here!!!:D

We have an ME-109 on 3 cells, 8X6SF APC @ 9amps draw. What a combination, the plane went from a so-so, ho-hum flying machine to a no holds barred beast. The same with the Zero spinning a 9X3.8SF APC on three cells @ just under 10 amps. What a difference! Ballistic doesn't even begin to describe it.

These motor/prop/battery combos make a boring, run of the mill model perform like million dollar flying machines!

Switching to a two cell pack and going to a 10X3.3SF APC on the Zero made it fly better than with its own power plant, but it lost some of the ZIP it has with the three cells. This other combo pulled 6 amps WOT.

VACaver
12-25-2005, 12:09 AM
Just how many amps is that pulling? Here the GWS 9x5hd is all they can take...

Mike

I have absolutley no idea...to me, electronics is hoo-doo magic. I couldn't work or understand a watt-meter if you put a gun to my head :D

rcers
12-25-2005, 07:15 PM
I have absolutley no idea...to me, electronics is hoo-doo magic. I couldn't work or understand a watt-meter if you put a gun to my head :D

Even though this is a fairly inexpensive motor, you will cook it. You are likely drawing 12-13 amps, and it is 10 amp motor.

Buy a amp meter - your new best friend.

It will set you back $50 and save you tons of failed equipment. At this rate you will cook your battery, esc and motor!

They take the mystery out. Remember even though you are flying at 2/3 throttle, the motor, esc and battery all see the full throttle amp draw.

Mike

Twmaster
12-25-2005, 07:29 PM
They take the mystery out. Remember even though you are flying at 2/3 throttle, the motor, esc and battery all see the full throttle amp draw.

Mike, while I 100% agree that a wattmeter is an essential tool in every e-flter's goodie bag I have to disagree with your last sentence.

According to -my- wattmeter the amp draw varies with amount of throttle.

Please explain your reasoning.

rcers
12-25-2005, 08:17 PM
Watt meters see the average.

How does an ESC work?

Do they vary the actual power received to the motor or do they switch the power on and off really fast?

The battery is the most protected in this, but the ESC just switches power on and off.

I have seen people try to vary the power by using throttle end points, just does not work that way.

Now with that said, the ESC is the one doing the heavy lifting. It would be interesting to see how that "hurts" the motor and or battery.

Mike

VACaver
12-25-2005, 09:08 PM
OK...I'll save my pennies and go buy a watt meter.

In the meantime, though, what is the main culprit in my setup that will cause me to fry the motor? Is it the prop I'm using or what?

Oh, and once I do get a watt meter, I fully expect you guys to teach me how to use it :D

Can anyone recommend a particular one?

rcers
12-26-2005, 12:12 AM
Yep the prop is too big.

The issue with electric motors is they want to turn the RPM they were designed too. They just keep trying harder and harder till they die.

Where are you at? Your altitude may have you safe, as the air gets thinner too. Many of the gang in Denver can spin much larger props that we can here at 500' above sea level.

Many good watt meters. If I were buying one right now it would likely be one of these:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LX3605&P=ML
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLMV0&P=ML
or this one is a tad cheaper and will do the job:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLA110

Mike

qban_flyer
12-26-2005, 03:19 AM
According to -my- wattmeter the amp draw varies with amount of throttle.

Please explain your reasoning.

Been using one since Summer 2002 and I have to agree with Tw's assessment. Throttle back and the current draw drops.:)

VACaver
12-26-2005, 02:20 PM
Yep the prop is too big.

The issue with electric motors is they want to turn the RPM they were designed too. They just keep trying harder and harder till they die.

Where are you at? Your altitude may have you safe, as the air gets thinner too. Many of the gang in Denver can spin much larger props that we can here at 500' above sea level.

Many good watt meters. If I were buying one right now it would likely be one of these:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LX3605&P=ML
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLMV0&P=ML
or this one is a tad cheaper and will do the job:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByCategory/Product/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFLA110

Mike

I'm in Southwest Virginia with a field elevation of 1000 MSL.

If my prop is too big, can you recommend what size to use?

Thanks.

Twmaster
12-26-2005, 04:33 PM
Try an 8x6. That is what I used on my Me-109 with 3 cell lipo. Motor did not even get warm.

qban_flyer
12-26-2005, 07:16 PM
Try an 8x6. That is what I used on my Me-109 with 3 cell lipo. Motor did not even get warm.

I concurr with Tw.

I use a 9X3.8SF APC on my Zero and the exact same prop with my 400XT on another model with three cell Li-Pos. Our motors don't even get warmer than the ambient temperature.

The 8X6 APC will turn your warbird into a rocket ship WOT. The 9X3.8 will do just about the same for it. :D

I would only use the 10X4.7 with a two cell Li-Po pack as three cells will at least over drive the motor. Recommendations from H/L on these motors for proping is from 9X3.8SF through 11X3.8SF, with the smaller one being used with three cell packs and the two others with two cell packs.

I have an 11X3.8SF APC on my Slow Stick using a 1320 Thunder Power 7.4V pack. Superb combination for my Slow Stick.:)

VACaver
12-26-2005, 09:39 PM
I'll give yur suggestions a shot. Thanks for your help.

rcers
12-26-2005, 10:04 PM
Been using one since Summer 2002 and I have to agree with Tw's assessment. Throttle back and the current draw drops.:)
Qban_flyer - how do ESC's work?

Send a note to the esc makers. Castle creations will tell you, you just can't just throttle back. The ESC sees the full throttle amp rate, every time it sends the "on" pulse.

The battery and motor "may" be OK but I promise guys, the ESC does not just soak up current! It just switches on and off to give you the illusion that it is running at a reduced rate...

Send Castle Creations a note - see what they say! Don't take my word, but don't cook your equipment.

It would be fun someday to really put this to the test.

Mike

rcers
12-26-2005, 10:09 PM
I'll give yur suggestions a shot. Thanks for your help.

Gang try the GWS HD 9x5 prop too. Draws less amps than the APC-sf 9x3.8 and pulls harder, a good combo. I won't go back to the 9x3.8 or x.4.7 props again.

Trust me...

Mike

timocharis
12-26-2005, 11:25 PM
Mike,

I was going to say the same thing, but I think I've maxed out my 9050 post limit! Glad you did.


Dave

k-vette
12-26-2005, 11:46 PM
Waiting for a little while paid off. I got a p-51 for christmas.;) I'm going to add retracts to it, should look cool. I had to modify the prop for the spinner and motor stuff to fit, but I think it'll work just fine. This should be a speedy little plane.

qban_flyer
12-27-2005, 01:36 AM
Qban_flyer - how do ESC's work?

Send a note to the esc makers. Castle creations will tell you, you just can't just throttle back. The ESC sees the full throttle amp rate, every time it sends the "on" pulse.

The battery and motor "may" be OK but I promise guys, the ESC does not just soak up current! It just switches on and off to give you the illusion that it is running at a reduced rate...

Send Castle Creations a note - see what they say! Don't take my word, but don't cook your equipment.

It would be fun someday to really put this to the test.

MikeI have a notion there are many here who are dying to make the entire Watt Flyer community aware of the vast knowledge they possess in the field of electric flight. I am not one of them.

I know a few electrical engineers here who don't go around tooting their horn in that respect. They are fully aware of the master degrees they hold in that field. To them it is sufficient that they know who and what they are. They don't need to go around telling everyone who, what or of their accomplishments in life have been. They are rather secure of their position in that respect at this stage in their lives.

I also know a few here at Watt Flyer who know absolutely nothing about electrical engineering acting as if they were "know it alls". Those are the insecure ones. Those are the ones I refer to in my sig, the Human Slinkies.

rcers
12-27-2005, 02:59 AM
I have a notion there are many here who are dying to make the entire Watt Flyer community aware of the vast knowledge they possess in the field of electric flight. I am not one of them.

I know a few electrical engineers here who don't go around tooting their horn in that respect. They are fully aware of the master degrees they hold in that field. To them it is sufficient that they know who and what they are. They don't need to go around telling everyone who, what or of their accomplishments in life have been. They are rather secure of their position in that respect at this stage in their lives.

I also know a few here at Watt Flyer who know absolutely nothing about electrical engineering acting as if they were "know it alls". Those are the insecure ones. Those are the ones I refer to in my sig, the Human Slinkies.

Wow Qban Flyer - interesting.

I apologize if I have upset you.

Mike

qban_flyer
12-27-2005, 07:29 AM
Wow Qban Flyer - interesting.

I apologize if I have upset you.

Mike

You did not upset me Mike, so no applogies are needed. :)

rcers
12-27-2005, 02:28 PM
By the way for those interested in acutally learning why their watt meter shows "average" and does not indicated the spikes the ESC sees please read this:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4539775#post4539775

Make sure you read the posts from Castle Creations and pay careful attention to post #2, #3, #11, #23.

What this all boils to is ESC's do see the full throttle amp draw every time they send the "on" pulse roughly at 13K times per second.

Amp Meters see the average - you need serious equipment to see the spike amperage/voltage.

It is a great read, and isn't it good to learn?

So don't assume just because you don't see smoke you are not stressing something. This is a 10 amp motor, running it for higher amperages and throttling back simply does not protect your expensive equipment.

Mike

FinnFlyer
12-27-2005, 06:19 PM
Not a GWS warbird, but I am running mine on an Ultrafly F-16.

My buddy bought the ARF back in February 05. It came with a geared speed 400 and a 7x5 prop.
He couldn't get it in the air the day of its maiden:mad:. As I stopped him from stomping it into a little pile of foam, I told him to just put it up and if he Really didn't want it I would buy it.

I bought it later in the summer. Reading some motor specs on the 400xt on 3S, and having a CC-10 laying around, I mounted it together with the 7x5 APC that came with it.

Finally got it in the air about 2 weekends ago. Man what a nice flying plane!:D It even glides, throttle off, very well.:eek:
It has the stock styro elevators, two hs-55's, and an Electron-6.
Very light plane.:)

I am going to try a 7x6 next time out, as the motor info I've read states the amp draw will be 9.6 amps.

rcers
12-27-2005, 06:35 PM
FinnFlyer - I wondered about that plane, I have seen the PC-9 and it looked fantastic.

Sounds like a great plane, I may have to put one on the list...

Mike

k-vette
12-30-2005, 11:45 PM
I like the look of the PC-9 as well, There are so many planes I want to build...:eek: I just finished up my p-51 this morning. Put in a 400xt, 3s 1100mah battery and some retracts. I've heard a lot of negative things about the gws retracts, but they seem to be working properly. It takes quite a bit of fiddling to get them to lock with the gear down. Now if only the rain would stop.:(

FinnFlyer
12-31-2005, 05:04 AM
k-vette,

I'd like to see some pics of the retracts.
I've thought of trying the GWS also.
As of yet, I am pleased with all my GWS equipment, especially the servos.

qban_flyer
12-31-2005, 02:10 PM
I like the look of the PC-9 as well, There are so many planes I want to build...:eek: I just finished up my p-51 this morning. Put in a 400xt, 3s 1100mah battery and some retracts. I've heard a lot of negative things about the gws retracts, but they seem to be working properly. It takes quite a bit of fiddling to get them to lock with the gear down. Now if only the rain would stop.:(

What servo make and Model did you use to activate your GWS retracts?:confused:

I have a set I want to put in my Zero, though I haven't done so yet because I fear they may strip the servo gears on HS-55s.:eek:

rcers
12-31-2005, 07:28 PM
k-vette,

I'd like to see some pics of the retracts.
I've thought of trying the GWS also.
As of yet, I am pleased with all my GWS equipment, especially the servos.
I just don't' think you will be happy with retracts on this size ship. They add significant weight, then they tend to collapse under the new added weight of the plane.

I understand the attraction to retracts for the "cool" factor, but I eventually dropped them from my small ships. They just are a pain to setup and keep maintained. Unless you have a nice paved strip you are also constantly re-bending them so they don't bind on the wheel wells.

Remember too the retract servo will do a great deal of work trying to raise and lower the gear, and when they get "stopped" in the wrong position they can draw significant amounts of power from the BEC circuit and cook your controller! Not good.

IMHO Leave the gear off - the GWS warbirds fly well without them and they belly skid just great.

Mike

k-vette
01-01-2006, 03:41 AM
I used a gws naro servo for the retracts, I think it'll work fine. (I think it has around 22 oz. of torque) Once the servo and linkage was setup correctly it didn't bind or put any extra strain on the servo. With the retracts in the down position they lock and don't put any pressure on the servo. Although I haven't flown this one yet I'm confident the gear will work out fine. Be forewarned, they take some time to work right. Just sticking 'em in there and expecting them to work won't cut it. I'd have to disagree with the fact that they add a lot of weight. With the change to a brushless and li-po's over the stock setup it's probably not much more. I may have to weigh it and see where it is. It doesn't feel very heavy though. I moved the retracts up and down many times setting them up, I don't see any way the gear could get stuck. I plane on using pavement for the first flights, then I'll decide if they can take my dirt runway at home. Shock absorbing wheels would certainly help. Only a few tests will see if they're good or bad!

rcers
01-01-2006, 03:13 PM
k-vette - do they lock in the "up" position too?

If not then they "load" the servo (a bit) anytime while up.

You are right, the weight might be negated by the LiPoly and brushless motor, but the fact still remains that it will add (in most cases) at least an ounce maybe two. That is about 10% of the weight of this type of plane.

I didn't even find them weight worthwhile in .40 size glow ships. I am 100% sure you will spend more time fiddling with the retracts that using them! Every single plane I used them on - they came out of! They just wear you down.

It is certainly a personal preference.

Mike (who glasses his small ships and adds between 1.5-2oz!)

k-vette
01-03-2006, 02:15 AM
I just weighed my plane, came in at 14 oz. I messed with the retracts quite a bit to make sure the servo wasn't getting stressed. If it is, I can't tell. I like to be an optimist.;)

rcers
01-03-2006, 02:19 AM
Is 14oz the All Up Weight(AUW)?

Twmaster
01-03-2006, 02:35 AM
That is the same weight as my GWS ME-109 with 3S lipo and 400XT

k-vette
01-03-2006, 04:48 AM
Is 14oz the All Up Weight(AUW)?

Certainly is. I'm sure I could've paid more attention and made it lighter. The battery is a 1100 3s, and I think it balances at the right spot with that. All of the stock decals were used, Im not sure how much weight that added. I've heard that the wings flex quite a bit with high G turns, and it looked a little flimsy so I made sure to put a carbon fiber rod in the wing rather than the wooden dowel it comes with. It goes almost all the way to the wingtips. I don't think that made much difference in the weight at all. I have to admit, if this one flies well I'm considering getting another plane in SG form. I'd like to paint it instead and maybe try fiberglass for a more realistic look.
Twmaster--Are you using the spinner that came with your 109? I had to modify the prop quite a bit for it to work with my prop adapter.

rcers
01-03-2006, 03:00 PM
I'd like to paint it instead and maybe try fiberglass for a more realistic look.
O yes they turn out nice - here is my spit....

Twmaster
01-03-2006, 03:44 PM
No I had not fitted the spinner to my ME-109 yet. I wanted to see how the plane flew before I invested too much time into it.

k-vette
01-06-2006, 08:31 PM
Did the first flight of my p-51 yesterday. It flew great, plenty of power and reacted quickly. I'm going to like this one. The retracts worked out just fine, and I ended up using a dirt track at the local school. My landing was a bit rough, but it didn't hurt anything. Looks like it's a success.;)

rcers
01-06-2006, 09:45 PM
My landing was a bit rough,

Let me guess the retract folded? ;)

k-vette
01-06-2006, 10:35 PM
Let me guess the retract folded? ;)

You won't give up on that will you?:rolleyes: Actually, no. The bad landing was because of my flying. I hit too hard, and guess what....nothing happened to the retracts.:p They stayed right where they are supposed to.

rcers
01-07-2006, 10:29 PM
k-vette - I am more than happy you like the retracts. The micro's I have seen failed instantly on a less than perfect landing.

I am happy you like them! We all have a choice, I just prefer not to use them.

Mike

VACaver
01-08-2006, 04:09 PM
OK, I picked up an E-flite power meter. Now what?

What am I looking for? Not to exceed the amp rating of the motor or the ESC?

Thanks.

rcers
01-08-2006, 10:08 PM
OK, I picked up an E-flite power meter. Now what?

What am I looking for? Not to exceed the amp rating of the motor or the ESC?

Thanks.

Easy, turn on your TX then plug the flight battery into the meter and then the ESC into the "output" end.

STart the motor up normally. You will see teh watts and amps displayed on the meter.

Use a prop that takes you to 10-10.5 amps and go fly. That is the safe limit for this motor. I assume you have at least a 10 amp speed controller too.

Mike

VACaver
01-09-2006, 12:40 AM
Thanks, Mike...I got it figured out:rolleyes:

Esskay 400XT, Thunderpower 3-cell, Phoenix 10 ESC -

8x6 prop = 7.4 amps
9x4.7 = 7.5 amps
9x6 = 8.8 amps
10x4.7 = 11.1 amps

So, I guess the 9x6 it is.

MountainFlyer
01-13-2006, 05:34 AM
heres my Zero
5928

i'm using the Esskay 400XT
Speed control: CC Thunderbird18
Battery: Thunder Power 900mAh 3S
RX: a Hitec Feather ( i know people say there glitchy, but out here in the middle of nowhere its a glitch free little "lite" RX )
Prop: APC 9x6SF ( the threeblade GWS9070x3 is only on it for the photo it draws WAY too many amps for this motor and and batt combo :)

just did the maiden on it this morning. plenty of power ( i was flying it around on less then 1/4 throttle and full throttle was just insane.
Was a short flight i had some trim problems so i brought her down for a nice 'controlled" landing before i had an "uncontrolled ' one ;)
im also going to be testing it with the 8x6 APC as well ..
the 9x6 seems to be the "insane power" prop and i only hit full throttle once and it pretty much scared the heck outa me :D So hopefully tomorrow if the weather permits i'll give her a second flight .. hopefully a longer one as well.

here's the specs with the 9x6APC btw with the 8x6APC it draws just over 8amps although the thrust is down to 12oz ( still an insane amount of thrust for this little plane )

Gear Ratio = 1.00
Diam (in) = 9.0
Pitch (in) = 6.0
Weight (oz) = 14.1
Batt Amps = 10.5
Motor Amps = 10.5
Motor Volts = 10.4
Input (W) = 109.2
InPLd (W/lb) = 123.9
Loss (W) = 27.2
MGbOut (W) = 82.0
OutPLd (W/lb) = 93.0
MotGb Ef(%) = 75.1
Shaft Ef(%) = 70.0
Prop RPM = 7989
Thrust (oz) = 16.4
PSpd (mph) = 45.4
RofC (fpm) = 1507
Time (m:s) = 5:07

VACaver
01-13-2006, 11:46 AM
OK, the APC 10x4.7 prop draws a bit over 11 amps at full throttle, and averages about 8 at 3/4. A quick bump up to 11 amps for a second or so shouldn't hurt the motor.

Personally, I'd rather fly it at 3/4 throttle and have a bit of extra power (full throttle) in my hip pocket if I need it.

timocharis
01-13-2006, 07:52 PM
Sounds like a serious candidate for the 10x6 GWS HD.


Dave

rcers
01-13-2006, 08:04 PM
Sounds like a serious candidate for the 10x6 GWS HD.
Dave

Does someone smell smoke? On 3s that would likely cook it...

I am running a 7x8 at 10.9amps on this motor in a new (fast) application. At $20 not much at risk. I will see how hot it gets. Normally I think the 9x5HD is the ticket on this motor at a bit over 10 amps.

Mike

timocharis
01-14-2006, 04:28 AM
Mike,

If he's able to run a 10x4.7, the 10x6 pulls less amperage. If you smell smoke with the 10x6 HD, you smell fire with the 10x4.7


Dave

MountainFlyer
01-16-2006, 09:10 PM
I put the second flight on my Zero today.
Made a few modifications between first flight and today
(1) changed the angle of attack of the wing. dropped the front of the wing about an 1/8th of an inch
(2) added 1.5 degrees down angle to the motor ( it had about a half of a degree down to start with )

this helped the planes flying characteristics 100% imo
it wanted to go vertical on launch before the mods and was almost impossible to trim it out for level flight at full throttle. now it trims out nicely and the landing speeds are quite slow and stable.
I'm really impressed with the 400XT motor with an 8x6SF APC prop this plane is a bullet ( somewhere in the 40mph to 45mph range from what motocalc and my eyeballs tell me ) and i get about 15 minutes flying out of a TP900 3S Lipo with a bit of throttle management. this is my first low wing war plane. i find the plane to be a pretty easy flying plane ..for a low wing plane that is... it is Quick and responsive and by no means a plane for someone who has never flown an aileron plane before. i have over 200 flights on my MM SmoothE's (both with SP wings ) so the Zero hasn't done anything unexpected. its actually quite a blast to fly :)
i may have to pick up another of the GWS warbirds.

M

E-Challenged
01-20-2006, 04:47 PM
The 400XT is comparable to an AXI 2212/26. We measured 18 ounces thrust on a digital fish scale. The 400XT will fly any 18-22 ounce GWS or larger Alfa etc foam warbird in a scale-like manner with loops from level flight, etc.

CorsairJock
01-21-2006, 03:49 PM
I have a GWS Zero nearing completion, and have an Esskay 400XT for it. Planning on using just 2 cell Li-Po, with 10" prop: should be plenty of power for scale flying.

I also have an old Hobby Lobby P-38 (Czech made ARF w 'glass fuselage/ boom/ wing center assembly, balsa outer wings & tail), which I have been thinking about lately: would like to install 2 Esskay 400XTs with 8" folding propsinto it and use 3 cell, 4200 mAh Li-Po.

Question concerns mounting: it would be ideal if I could reverse the output shaft, so that it exits at the mounting end. It would then become a VERY easy installtion. Most outrunners are designed such that they allow for this (pressing shaft so that it extends out of the mounting end of motor): Has ANYONE tried this with the Esskays?

Twmaster
01-21-2006, 03:59 PM
There are two ways to achieve this CorsairJock.

First and easiest is to buy the replacement tractor bells from Vinnie at justgofly.com for the 450XT motor. IIRC they are 12 or 15 bucks each.

Second is to carefully press the shaft through the bell on your 400XT so it points out the base of the motor. I have done this and it works just fine. You will need to pull the little clip that holds the bell on (save it in case you need it later), remove the bell from the motor then press the shaft. I'll leave it up to you to devise your means of pressing. When you have it where you want it just put the bell back on the motor. You won't need that clip as the magnets will hold the bell on the motor and the thing will just work so long as you did not booger anything.

Twmaster
01-21-2006, 04:02 PM
I may have to pick up another of the GWS warbirds.

My ME-109 is a missile with the 400XT and 3 cells. Tracks like it is on rails. Scary fast. Looks great in the air too.

CorsairJock
01-21-2006, 04:09 PM
There are two ways to achieve this CorsairJock.

First and easiest is to buy the replacement tractor bells from Vinnie at justgofly.com for the 450XT motor. IIRC they are 12 or 15 bucks each.

Second is to carefully press the shaft through the bell on your 400XT so it points out the base of the motor. I have done this and it works just fine. You will need to pull the little clip that holds the bell on (save it in case you need it later), remove the bell from the motor then press the shaft. I'll leave it up to you to devise your means of pressing. When you have it where you want it just put the bell back on the motor. You won't need that clip as the magnets will hold the bell on the motor and the thing will just work so long as you did not booger anything.

WOW, Thanks for the Quick reply. I have an arbor press available, so pressing the shaft thru is not an issue. I was wondering if it had been done (successfully) before, and you have answered my question.
Thanks again!
BTW, I think I'll pass on replacing the bells. It's a $20 motor (again, for now anyway), can't see spending $12 ~ $15 on additional parts which would not be needed if I bought more expensive motors in the 1st place

Twmaster
01-21-2006, 04:17 PM
One point I should make here.

Yes Hobby-Lobby is selling these (on sale) for $20. It is however not a "$20" motor. Other vendors sell motors from the same maker with similar specs for $45 to $55. Even at this price the 400XT is a good value.

See how much an AXI 2212/26 costs. So if somebody sold you an AXi for $20 would you gripe about having to pay $14 for the radial mount??

If you really want a $20 motor go and get one of those awful TowerPro 2410's.....

Sorry, just had to vent.

Twmaster
01-21-2006, 04:21 PM
...And one more thing.

When you press that shaft be sure to support the bell from inside so you don't crush/distort the top surface. (A very small socket will do nicely)

CorsairJock
01-21-2006, 04:41 PM
One point I should make here.

Yes Hobby-Lobby is selling these (on sale) for $20. It is however not a "$20" motor. Other vendors sell motors from the same maker with similar specs for $45 to $55. Even at this price the 400XT is a good value.

See how much an AXI 2212/26 costs. So if somebody sold you an AXi for $20 would you gripe about having to pay $14 for the radial mount??

If you really want a $20 motor go and get one of those awful TowerPro 2410's.....

Sorry, just had to vent.
Mike: your holding back, aren't you. Tell us what you REALLY think.

Just kidding, and I'm not critisizing these motors because of their price. From what I have seen, these are VERY nice motors, when the end user sets them up correctly (right prop choice, etc.).