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flyranger
12-06-2005, 02:21 PM
I just got this from feebay, but my only experience with foamies is my GWS Slow Stick. Would be interested in any experience that my fellow flyers have had with this model. So far, from various sources, I have gleaned:
1. Edges can be painted with acrylic Delta Dreamcoat Medium Foilage Green from Jo Ann's Fabrics.
2. Balance is a pain in the a#$. I expect to mount my thunderpower 2000 3s1p Lipo on the firewall under the cowl. I've also been told to mount the servos on the inside of the firewall for the same reason.
3. Increase rudder throw from stock by at least 30% due to sluggish turns (not enough dihedral?)
4. Landing gear wire seems incredibly weak...any ideas?
5. Will be using a cheap outrunner 2410-08 draws about 12 amps max (125 watts, 1lb 6oz static thrust) on a 10x4.7 eflite prop through a CC 25 ESC.
6. Wings - would carbon fiber rods help with strength/weight considerations instead of the stock nylon, or should this be left alone?
7. Overall strength improvements?

Many thanks for any suggestions you may have - this forum is great!!

flyranger
12-06-2005, 03:56 PM
Heres what I came up with for helping the balance. I cut a 1/16 aircraft ply plate just smaller than the forward fuse circle. I positioned my square TP 2000ma 3s1p Lipo underneath and framed it in with 1/4" x 1/2" balsa. I measured the supplied watt age 370/gearbox combo and made up a mount that would take my cheap outrunner to the same height. I used two pieces of 1/4" balsa glued cross-grain and faced it with another piece of 1/16" aircraft ply. What do you think? The thrust line will be higher than the stock (won't line up with the center of the cowl), but I think this will make it flyable. Nothing is glued on the fuse yet, I'm using scotch tape to hold the fuse halves together till I get the balance worked out. The tape will scar the paint, but I expect to have to touch it up anyway!

pdalton
12-06-2005, 05:46 PM
I have no experience with the Camel, but I fly a PT 17 with a double stator Go brushless that I built from their kit. It pulls only 4.5 amps with a 10x6 GWS prop. Puts out 55 watts and work like a champ. It loops from level flight good roll rate and lands lke a dream. All I can say is do not try to fly unless the balance is right on. Porter Dalton PS I fly at 5000 ft. above sea level here in Cody, WY
PPS I am using a GWS 3cell Lypoly.

rglarson
12-07-2005, 12:38 AM
Hi Flyranger,
I built a Wattage Sopwith Camel last winter and built it according to the building manuel. I used the included 370 can motor and a Wattage IC-380 esc (now discontinued) and had a major problem with the esc overheating and shutting down the motor. Consequently, the airplane was short lived due to crashes from stalling so soon after takeoff.
I also experienced problems with the very soft delicate foam used in the kit. One other improvement I was advised to use by a tech at Hobby People, was to make N struts between the upper and lower wings to stabilize the lateral movement between the wings, and keep them better aligned above one another. I used popsycle sticks cut down. I couldn't upload a picture due to the excessive file size.
If you want to contact me at my private email address feel free to do so, I have a number of pictures including the last crash I can share with you with some additional tips I picked up along the way.
Ray Larson
rglarson@oregontrail.net:)

Don Sims
12-07-2005, 12:43 AM
Super idea on mounting the batteries. You shouldn't have any cooling issues with it and you sure can't take the battery forward any more than it is!

Electrothump
12-08-2005, 02:42 AM
I guess the most trouble I had out of mine was trying to fly it in the wind. That big hollow fuse really catches the wind. You will need a little more rudder than what the instructions call for. The elevator setting seems ok for mine. I broke the landing gear off several times. But with some foam safe ca and activator, it was back up and running in a few minutes. I added more 1/16 ply under there and it hasn't came back off yet. Now the little little cabane strut mounts that are close to the cockpit will need to be built up with epoxy or ca. I would do it on the inside and outside. Be careful not to get any glue in the holes. They'll pull out if the plane comes down hard. I mounted my battery (2slipo 1250 tp) under the stock motor. That stock motor is pretty loud on all that plywood and foam. I haven't tried my brusless yet. Oh yeah, I built up the firewall sorta like you did. I made an aluminum motor mount. The stock one bit the dust on the first oops. I've not had much bad luck with the breaking of any wings yet, and I've came down real hard several times. The fiberglass dowels seem to be doing their job. Getting the thing balanced was a little tricky. I had to use a couple AA bateries taped to the front part of the machine gun slots to bring it in. When the wind isn't above about two or three mph, it's nice flying plane. It really will turn on a dime. If there is much more wind, more rudder throw is a must. It's a pretty light plane. Loops and inverted are pretty easy. I like the N diagonal brace you used on the outer cabanes. I'll add that to mine. The cowling is kinda on the lightweight side, and cracks at the screw holes pretty easy. I ended up just using scotch tape to hold it on. It's a lot faster. Yeah, it messes up the paint, but if you crash it much, you'll get used to that. All in all, I think you will really like it. It's a cool looking flyer. Ya just gotta watch the wind.

Dave

flyranger
12-08-2005, 03:47 PM
Dave, did you add ailerons?

Electrothump
12-08-2005, 04:06 PM
Dave, did you add ailerons?
No, I didn't add them. I did however drill thru the cabane struts and use some little number six bolts with nuts to help secure the alignment of the top and bottom wings. I think the N thing will do a much better job. Weight doesn't seem to be a problem with the plane. It's pretty light. Now you have me curious as to how much different it would fly with ailerons. Ya never know, if I get some snowed in days, I may just add them. Speaking of snow, the forecasters in our area are calling for a pretty bad weather event as I'm typing this. I think it's time to make a town run. Country living has its plusses and minuses. Are you thinking of adding them to both top and bottom wings?

Dave

Electrothump
12-08-2005, 04:11 PM
Flyranger, you might want to fly that thing on a calm day first, with the controls set like the instructions say. I put extra throw on mine first, and it was pretty twitchy. I then backed them off to the stock settings and it really flew nice. But, that was on a calm day. I later added extra rudder. Remember the wind factor with this one. Gotta run.

Dave

flyranger
12-08-2005, 06:00 PM
Got a trial balance with the electronics today. TP 2000ma 3s1p Lipo, cheap bell motor on firewall mount, CC 25 controller, Futaba 114 with two s-3108 servos. Everything still temp taped together. Per manual the balance range is only 1/8" wide! Really close here, folks! Made the marks on the side of the fuse. Close enough for a country boy. This model is tough because I want to keep the Lipo under the cowl to change batts and not have to disassamble the wings, meaning I don't have the ability to move the battery to balance the plane. I actually trial balanced a little too far forward, but figure finishing the fuse will add more tail weight (that's why I don't care about the tape scars during construction). All electronics will be installed while checking the balance each step along the line. If need be, I can always add a tail wheel etc. The cowl was very flimsy and had cracked in a couple of spots on the rim. Ran shipping tape around the outside and a small piece in the center for reinforcement.

flyranger
12-09-2005, 04:00 PM
Every plane needs a pilot (sic) and every biplane needs a certain cartoon character. I'm not an artist, couldn't use an art paintbrush if it was ca'd to my hand, but I can work some of the easier graphic image programs. Got the image from google. Used Paint Shop Pro (yes, I own it, it's like Photoshop, but it's easier to use and understand) to crop out the pilot. Re-sized the pilot to about the right scale size using T.L.A.R. then created a mirror image for the opposite side. Printed both and cut out using Mark 1 Mod 1 scissors (not to run with, non-military issue). Traced outline on 1/16" aircraft ply and nibbled out using electrician's diagonal cutters (so much easier than scratching and cutting with knives and saws!) Sanded off the rough edges and touched up the black with a felt tip pen. Colored in the brown flying helmet with brown marker. Used a glue stick to paste on both sides of the cutout. Sprayed both sides with water-based Minwax Polycrylic. Nice! :D Now, where's my plane to get the cursed Red Baron!!

flyranger
12-10-2005, 07:35 PM
I have finished the foam surfaces. Here's how I did it: Using lightweight spackling compound mixed with water, painted surfaces with a foam brush. Consistency should be very wet and runny. When dry, sand LIGHTLY with 400 grit emery cloth. Wipe dust with damp rag. Inspect for depressions that did not get filled and do those spots again. Paint with acrylic water soluable paint using a cheap foam brush. Don't worry about the brush lines, I was pleasantly surprised that the brush lines, when dry, make the painted foam look even more like fabric! The grainy appearance is my cheap digital camera, the model surfaces look very smooth.

Electrothump
12-11-2005, 05:21 AM
Flyranger, did you mark, or scribble down the measurements where the cabane strut mounts go? On mine the little markers were pretty hard to see. I saw that you had sanded and painted the fuse, and thought to myself, hmmmm, , hope he didn't sand the markers off. It's looking good.

Dave

flyranger
12-11-2005, 11:48 PM
Before I started finishing the fuse, I had already discovered that those little marks were gone. No problem, the manual gives specific measurements. That and T.L.A.R. should get me through.

Electrothump
12-14-2005, 05:58 AM
You know, it looks like they would have described the markers a little better than a "dimple"?.
They aren't dimples at all. They're more like little molding lumps, or bumps, , really small. It also seems like they would have given a better place to measure from than the cowl. The firewall is more of a given. But, all in all, they're still good instructions.

Dave

Bill G
12-18-2005, 05:09 AM
I just got this from feebay, but my only experience with foamies is my GWS Slow Stick. Would be interested in any experience that my fellow flyers have had with this model. So far, from various sources, I have gleaned:
1. Edges can be painted with acrylic Delta Dreamcoat Medium Foilage Green from Jo Ann's Fabrics.
2. Balance is a pain in the a#$. I expect to mount my thunderpower 2000 3s1p Lipo on the firewall under the cowl. I've also been told to mount the servos on the inside of the firewall for the same reason.
3. Increase rudder throw from stock by at least 30% due to sluggish turns (not enough dihedral?)
4. Landing gear wire seems incredibly weak...any ideas?
5. Will be using a cheap outrunner 2410-08 draws about 12 amps max (125 watts, 1lb 6oz static thrust) on a 10x4.7 eflite prop through a CC 25 ESC.
6. Wings - would carbon fiber rods help with strength/weight considerations instead of the stock nylon, or should this be left alone?
7. Overall strength improvements?

Many thanks for any suggestions you may have - this forum is great!!

Mine flies great, here are some of the details:
1. For nose weight, I added Willams Bros cylinder halves to the cowl. Only could fit 7 instead of 9, but it looks great.
2. You need a lot of rudder. You also need to stand on it, especially to change direction. With a lot of throw, just be patient, and it will respond fine. I also added a steerable tailwheel.
3. For landing gear, I added trailing wires, which are attached to GWS servo horns installed in the wings. Slipped nylon e-z threaded pushrod links over the axles, and used the press pin ends, which were intended to go into control horns, to fasten into holes in the axle center bar (see pic). Sort of pivots like independent suspension.
4. The bottom wing wants to tear at the fuse, as stress is concentrated there. I added a basswood reinforcement plate to the mount screw area, and epoxied a 1 foot section of .032" music wire along the trailing edge, to stip it from tearing at the fuse.
5. The best strength mod you can do is to x-brace the wings with .015 music wire. I did this on the front of the wings, and has added crashworthy strength. The wire is attached to the cabane and landing gear screws. The fuse on the plane is extremely strong, due to its large diameter, and that it is NOT cut open anywhere, such as a cocpit.
6. A Himax 2015-4100 has been swapped into the original Wattage gearbox, with 2.5:1 gearing. The Wattage gearbox is not as smooth as a GWS, and I had motor jitter problems at mid-throttle with the original gearing, and larger props. The larger 2.5:1 pinion and smaller 8060 GWS prop smoothened it out, although I would get more thrust from a larger prop.
7. Using a lipo batt. I reinforced the cutaway portion of the cowl with clear tape, and stuck velcro to it. It is used as a battery door. The mating area on the cowl is also reinforced with clear tape, and has velcro on it. To open the door, simply pull apart one of the 2 sides of the door, and slide the batt in. The plane still gets plenty of cooling from leakage aroud the door, and the center cutout hole around the motor shaft opening in the cowl.

One reason people have probably had problems with the plane is wing sloppiness. Before I reinforced the wing mounting screw area, it developed a tear. There was also an unnoticable tear behind one of the cabanes, which could only be found by flexing the wing. This was a result of light crash damage. With the slight amount of play in the wings, I unwisely tried to fly again that day. It was so unflyable I am amazed I brought it in safely. It now flies fine again, after the reinforcement an epoxying the unseen tear. What amazed me was that a slight amount of wing play rendered it unflyable.

Edit: Finally scanned a pic in. You can sort of see the Williams Bros cylinder halves.

Quote from Flyranger:
Every plane needs a pilot (sic) and every biplane needs a certain cartoon character.

I know its stupid Flyranger, but when we were kids, we made a bunch of cracks about a friends dad, who had a goatie and square frame glasses. We called him the Wooffer (cartoon name). My Wattage included plain bust is detailed to look like him.

Bill G
04-17-2006, 04:42 AM
Had the Camel at the park today. The plane definitely benefits from the Himax setup, since it has amazing drag. Really need the power to increase speed quickly. Was thinking about problems people had with this plane, and one thing came to mind concerning the wings. I had a the wing mount take a bit of damage at my boss field (and he doesn't even fly, with a field size backyard). Did a half-ass quickie repair on the hold down, where it had maybe 1/16" of play. Well, that tiny bit of wing slop made it unflyable. Unbelievable, to get it down in one piece. After repairing properly at home and flying agian, it still wasn't right. Finally found a small tear behind one of the cabanes in the lower wing. It was hard to find, since it was seamed together perfectly. After repairing that, flew fine again. Amazing that the small amount of flutter that the tear could have caused, substantially affected flight, but it did.
Taking all that into consideration, I started thinking about how much the extra rigidity from the flying wires I built it with, may be helping its flight. I used .015" music wire, making an X-brace at the front of ech wing, wrapping it around the cabane screws, when assembling the cabanes. Could be that I've had a much better flyer than others have described, due to the extra wing rigidity added by the flying wires. I'm sure they add a bit of drag, but the bl motor takes care of that. Can't be too much anyways, at the slow speed it flys.