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7car7
12-19-2007, 01:45 AM
First I should mention, I've wanted an Albatros long before I even knew what one was called, so I was pretty excited to find this one.
This is from Cedar Hobbies, and I bought mine from ebay. The difference with the ebay ones is some don't have landing gear for some reason, but they do have wheels.

They call it an ARF, but it's much more of a kit than that. But to be fair, I've modified it a lot, and I'm sure some could just throw the gear in and be happy. I did not like the way the prop shaft just goes through the spinner, just not right. I also didn't like the shape of the nose. The fuse has a nice bullet shape taper, then all of a sudden, in the forward 2 inches, it sort of straightens out. I reduced the diameter of the nose, to make the shape more like the real one. I also painted the fuse to look like wood. I'm picky, and I am still fooled by it when I glance at it. Love that wood look. I also made a really nice functional (pivoting) tail skid. The fuse used to weigh 3.1 oz, now with tail skid is 3.2 oz. Totally worth it.

The plane is of OK quality, but it's not great. I've done a lot cosmetically. Hope it's not lipstick on a pig. It is not going to be super light by anymeans. Everything you get in the kit wieghs about 10oz. That's with no radio, electronics, battery, motor of course.

I've applied Lozenge "fabric" to the wings, both top and bottom. I printed on tissue paper, and then applied that to the wings with WBPU. The tail feathers were terribly warped, so I cut the guts out of them, and installed an ever-so-slight airfoil with balsa to them. Then I covered with Silkspan. The original tail group was 21 grams, now they are 25 grams. So, yes, this plane is adding up. I'm trying very hard to keep it around 15-16 oz when done, but it's a challenge.

Right now, I'm finishing up a hatch for interior/battery access. There was no way of getting inside this thing as designed. This hatch is where the real planes engine would go. I'll be making a foam or balsa engine to stick to this hatch.

Next up is the internals, I'm going to use a pull-pull method. Soon I'll be making the landing gear from carbon fiber tube, and it will be sprung like the original.

What I'm NOT happy with is the fact that the lower wing had a warp in the left outer end, the leading edge was twisted down. Probably almost 1/4 inch. And both wings have (forgive me if this is the wrong word) REVERSE Dihedral, as in, they both droop down, ever so slight. I'm not by any means an expert, but I think the Albatros has slight normal dihedral on the lower wing, and the upper is flat? I did manage to fix the lower wing, with a heat gun and some blocks under the tips.

here's a link to what it looked like out of the box...
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24878

Ok, here's the current pictures...

7car7
12-19-2007, 01:46 AM
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p156/7car7/RC/RCPlanes10_27_07012.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p156/7car7/RC/RCPlanes10_27_07005.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p156/7car7/RC/RCPlanes10_27_07001.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p156/7car7/RC/RCPlanes10_27_07003.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p156/7car7/RC/RCPlanes10_27_07013.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p156/7car7/RC/RCPlanes10_27_07014.jpg

Biplane Murphy
12-19-2007, 02:43 AM
Wow!!!!....that's a whole different plane than the photos you posted in the other thread....

Looks nice.:)

barmonkey
12-19-2007, 03:01 AM
You are on your way to one nice looking Albatros!

I do have a question...What is the secret to printing on tissue?

7car7
12-19-2007, 03:42 PM
Printing on tissue was a pain - At first. I first tried to tape down the tissue to printer paper with scotch tape. The printer didn't like that. Tended to jam up. Also, I realized that the tissue needs to be secured on all 4 sides.

I ended up using a glue stick on the perimeter of the printer paper, then laying that down on to the tissue. The tissue I used was just regular wrapping paper type tissue. It is very thin. I found that it didn't really matter what setting I used on the printer, the fast draft setting seemed just as good as a higher setting.

The hardest part, (other than not using tape) was just getting the size of the lozenge art file correct. Basically you'll go thru a lot of ink on normal paper until you get it right. I did mine on 8.5x14 paper.

Applying it to the wings was pretty tricky too. I lightly sprayed down the wing, and the back side of the paper, then layed it down carefully. I honestly don't know how else to explain that part. It was hard to get it right. You pretty much only have 1 chance. It will slide around slightly, but not much.

I REALLY wish I'd done this printing on SILKSPAN, and just started from scratch, instead of puting it over Monokote. Would have been WAY easier.

WWI Ace
12-19-2007, 06:04 PM
It still looks WAY better than the plane you started with!! Looks like a good job to me. Don't be so critical about your building. I want to see this one complete!!! Steve

7car7
12-19-2007, 06:24 PM
It still looks WAY better than the plane you started with!! Looks like a good job to me. Don't be so critical about your building. I want to see this one complete!!! Steve

I appreciate that. I just wish I could save some weight, that's all.

One thing I forgot to mention - the way this plane comes, the tail group is VERY unscale. It just occured to me a few days ago, can't believe I didn't notice it long ago, with as many Albatros pics I've been looking at. The verticle is too far forward, and the horizontal is not "LONG" enough. The front edge of each should be the same point fore and aft. I did move the verticle back as far as I could and still get elevator movement, but it's certainly not scale. That's OK with me, I'm not quite THAT picky. Still looks like an Albi!

barmonkey
12-19-2007, 09:10 PM
Thanks for the info Steve...I almost bought one of these on e-bay a while back...but they put a reserve price on it so I quit looking at it.

From what I have seen from your other thread, I am glad I went with the Powerline Sopwith Camel.

Great work so far.

7car7
12-19-2007, 09:41 PM
Thanks for the info Steve...I almost bought one of these on e-bay a while back...but they put a reserve price on it so I quit looking at it.

From what I have seen from your other thread, I am glad I went with the Powerline Sopwith Camel.

Great work so far.

I'm Chris :)

Ya, it's pretty rough. There's certainly better options out there. But they will certainly cost ya.

Biplane Murphy
12-19-2007, 10:32 PM
I'm Chris :)

Ya, it's pretty rough. There's certainly better options out there. But they will certainly cost ya.

Hi Same Name.....I'm Chris also...

Steve is "WW1ACE"....:)

WWI Ace
12-20-2007, 01:56 AM
You rang? Haha!!! The Albatros will look fine when it's done! Most people don't know enough about the real plane to find the scale errors Chris. Barmonkey still owes us more info on the Camel!! Steve

barmonkey
12-20-2007, 02:33 AM
Sorry about the name swap there guys.
Steve, I am doing a repaint of an E-flite P-47 right now...If there are any specific questions about the Camel...just ask in my thread...BTW...I should get some motor info in the next couple of days.

Now, back to the Albatros!

degreen60
12-20-2007, 02:43 PM
.

I've applied Lozenge "fabric" to the wings, both top and bottom. I printed on tissue paper, and then applied that to the wings with WBPU.
here's a link to what it looked like out of the box...
...

I read in another tread that WBPU would make the print run. Did it run any on the tissue? I have printed Lozenge on plain paper and want to put in on the top of the wings of my Kavan Albatros. I have always had problems getting printed paper water proof enough not to run when I land in the morning dew. I have a can of WBPU and was wondering if it would "glue" the paper on the foam wings and also water proof them. One thing I am doing this time, I printed the paper about a week ago and have been letting the ink dry before I do any more to it.

I found a printed paper Albatros on the net. I enlarged the wings to the size I wanted and tile printed them. By using the printed plane the black cross is printed on the paper too.

7car7
12-20-2007, 04:53 PM
Did it run any on the tissue?

By using the printed plane the black cross is printed on the paper too.

I didn't have any running issues at all. I think the edges got a little softer, but not bad. If I really saturated it, (wich I tried not to do) I would get ink on my fingers, as I worked out the wrinkles.

I like the idea of puting the crosses in the file before printing. If done well, that would be really great.

I'm trying to figure out how I'm going to put the crosses on at this point. I was going to just make a stencil, and airbrush them on - lightly to mimick the finish that they had from the old photos. Or maybe even dry-brush them on, since they were brushed anyway. But you may have given me a good idea. I could just print them out on tissue. Lot's of choices.

I made my own control horns last night, The ones given are great if just using push/pull, but since I'm doing pull/pull, I needed them a bit different.

I cut all the guts out of the middle of the plane that were provided for a servo tray. I then laminated up some 1/64th ply on both sides of 1/16 balsa. Then cut that into some strips for servo mounting. The plane was at 3.1oz before the tail skid, but went up to 3.2. Now, with the new servo tray, it's back down to 3.1! All these changes, it would be nice to let Cedar Hobbies know about. Maybe they'd change their plane a bit. It was so crowded inside there with the original trays, it would be better to just leave that part up to the builder.

degreen60
12-20-2007, 09:02 PM
I will try the WBPU to hold the paper on. Will post pictures when finished. I think I will spray the ink side of the paper first with Krylon clear. I have done that with printed paper before and it helped make it water proof but maybe this time I will try more than one coat. Another thing I do on all my WW1 planes is add brace wires. I use upholstery thread for both the brace wires and pull-pull controls.

degreen60
12-22-2007, 06:46 PM
Here is the top wing with printed paper installed with WBPU. I first sprayed the paper with a couple of coats of Krylon Crystal Clear trying to make the ink water proof. I do not believe it worked cause I got a drop of WBPU on the top of the paper and it made a clear spot where the ink run. I just printed another page of paper, cut out the part I needed to cover the spot and glued it on with pink stick glue. Best way I have found to make the paper water proof is to cover it with shipping tape. I am hoping to find an easier way to water proof it cause I have one plane with a round tapered fuselage that would be almost inpossable to tape. I need the paper water proof cause I fly in the mornings and the dew gets on the plane.

7car7
12-31-2007, 06:14 PM
Degreen - looks great! How much does your plane weigh?

I'll have new pics reall soon, need to load them. Plane came out looking real nice, but heavy. It's 20 oz with the battery in place (1250 3 cell).

Maiden flight was this morning. I think it's more plane than I can handle. Very fast, and very responsive. Let's just say, I'm glad I got photos before it's first flight. It's fixable, and the damage is light, but I never got a chance to try a "landing".

Biplane Murphy
12-31-2007, 06:21 PM
Good luck with the maiden 7car7.

degreen60
12-31-2007, 07:09 PM
Degreen - looks great! How much does your plane weigh?
.

My plane weights about 15oz. It has a brushless 2410-08Y motor, GWS 9X6 prop, 6 NiMh AAA cells. It will fly on half throtle. Here is another pictures with bottom wings done and tail stripped. Can also see the dragon I added.

Biplane Murphy
12-31-2007, 07:23 PM
Whoops..I read your post wrong...:(

Sorry to hear about the not spectacular maiden.:(

WWI Ace
12-31-2007, 09:43 PM
7car7, some of my best planes have had a maiden gone slightly bad! I fixed them and then flew the crap out of it because I wasn't afraid to break it anymore!! Don't give up!! Steve

7car7
12-31-2007, 11:51 PM
7car7, some of my best planes have had a maiden gone slightly bad! I fixed them and then flew the crap out of it because I wasn't afraid to break it anymore!! Don't give up!! Steve


Steve, you just brightened my day! Thanks for that thought.

scalercflyer
01-01-2008, 02:17 AM
7car7 what Steve forgot to tell you that Texican pilots really can't fly. They just sorta flit through the air. :D Now us Yankee South Jersey pilots have much better skills. ;) Why, we can even take off and land without flipping! :rolleyes: :D:cool: Martin

WWI Ace
01-01-2008, 02:15 PM
I'm tellin' Martin!!! You meanie!!! Sticks and stones!!! Steve

7car7
01-01-2008, 08:56 PM
Here's the semi finished pics. I ended up doing a black and white stripe around the nose, just aft of the cone. And I painted the cone in a black and white patern, to keep with the theme.

I'm just glad I left the cone at home for the maiden! (oh, the cone is about 5 layers of .5 oz fiberglass formed over a mold I made.)

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p156/7car7/RC/RCPlanes12_31_07001.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p156/7car7/RC/RCPlanes12_31_07003.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p156/7car7/RC/RCPlanes12_31_07005.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p156/7car7/RC/RCPlanes12_31_07007.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p156/7car7/RC/RCPlanes12_31_07008.jpg

Now I just gotta get fixin'. Damage isn't really too bad, mainly where the lower wing joins the fuse, and little tabs inside the wings for the struts are broken off.

7car7
01-01-2008, 09:04 PM
Forgot to mention - for anyone considering getting this kit. I found that I wanted the battery as far forward as possible, so that meant verticle just aft of the firewall. I ended up making a little balsa box under the nose because the battery was too tall to fit. So this box is just adding a bit of room to the inside. You can see that box, prior to painting it gray, in the photos.

Well, time to get off the net, and get some repairs started!

WWI Ace
01-01-2008, 10:24 PM
Cool plane 7car7!! Steve

scalercflyer
01-01-2008, 11:15 PM
Excellent, excellent job 7car7! :cool: I am amazed at what you have done with her! :) Let us know how she flys. Martin

Twmaster
01-01-2008, 11:24 PM
Wow that turned out really nice. I was looking at those planes on FeeBay but now after reading your post I will pass on them. That Green Models Camel is looking better all the time.

7car7
01-02-2008, 03:06 PM
Wow that turned out really nice. I was looking at those planes on FeeBay but now after reading your post I will pass on them. That Green Models Camel is looking better all the time.

yep, no surprise there! They need to either make some changes, or continue with slow sales.

Thanks everyone for the kind thoughts.

I did find that the plane flys very well, but my skills with ailerons are terrible. The plane turned very nicely with just the ailerons, no adverse yaw at all. I never got the chance to see how "slow" I could fly it, but it certainly responds well to the controls, and it lifted off the ground at 1/2 throttle in about 10 feet. It's my guess, that those with better flying skills will like the way it flys.

7car7
01-14-2008, 03:17 PM
I finally got in a successful flight yesterday. Finally had a nice no wind day.
I made some changes to the plane before the flight yesterday. I reduced the throws on the rudder and elevator, and moved the center of gravity forward.
The manual calls for C.G. to be at the wing spar, but I couldn't get weight any further forward. Then I started to look real close at the plane compared to the profile drawings I have in a book. It seemed the upper wing was too far forward. I moved it back 1/2 inch, and now the C.G. is perfect!
So, I took it to the High School football field, and let 'er rip. Boy was I nervous, legs shaking so bad! But I remembered the basics, (like getting it up to altitude - safer up high! ;) ) and had a great flight. I was having a hard time getting it trimmed right. Even with right rudder trim, or aileron trim, or both, the plane is quite happy to turn to the left. I definately need to shim my motor for right thrust!
The plane is actually pretty docile, as far as turns go. I have pretty small throws on the ailerons, with mechanical differential. 3/8 up, and about 1/8 down. The elevator is still quite high travel, but as long as I remember that, it's fine.
Being such a heavy plane (20oz) for it's size, it does move along at a pretty good clip. But I was pleased to see that it does go slow enough when gliding, or at partial throttle for landing nice and easy. My "true to scale" suspension landing gear worked great, and certainly makes the landings nice.
I went thru 2 batteries, and was not very pleased with how long they lasted. Each one being only about 5 minutes, and the plane would just start coming lower and lower. I had to pretty much fly at full throttle, or close to it. I'm no expert by any means, but I think it either needs a bigger motor, or a different prop, or both. Just doesn't have much poop!
The motor I'm using is this one...
AM231232 Atlas 2312/32 OUTRUNNER.
with a 9x5 GWS Prop. Battery is Common Sense 3 Cell 1250mah.
Like I said, I got 2 great flights out of it in the morning. Plane looks GREAT flying around. So I took my dad to the field with me later in the day, and had a terrible time! First, a wheel came off the axle. (They were held on with a cardboard circle with epoxy - first time with an issue from using this type). So, I'm flying around, hoping I can do some sort of a landing without destroying the plane. Then the other wheel and axle come sliding out. I guess I was really nervous at this point, thinking how bad it would be. Next thing I know, the plane is down - crashed again! :censored:
I'm not really sure what brought it down, but I'm certain it was pilot error.
Again, a couple of mounts for the wing struts are busted, but all in all, not very bad. Very big bummer though, I thought I really had it down!

degreen60
01-14-2008, 03:31 PM
I like the way you stripped the tail. I may have to redo mine. Maybe after my next crash and rebuild. I am making guns for mine now. Look here to see one.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259&page=80

7car7
01-14-2008, 03:36 PM
I like the way you stripped the tail. I may have to redo mine. Maybe after my next crash and rebuild. I am making guns for mine now. Look here to see one.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259&page=80

Yep, I'm thinking a new set of wings may be in order for mine, front AND back. I'd like to get rid of some weight.

The gun looks great!

7car7
01-17-2008, 03:39 PM
Well, I'm very sad to report, the Albatros has been grounded indefinately.

I was flying it the other evening, and things were going relatively smooth, but, since the plane is so heavy for it's wing area, and the motor being probably too small, it just kept getting lower and lower. I was circling around for the approach, and it pretty much just dropped and cart-wheeled. The lower wing is badly busted up. But that's really the extent of the damage. The upper wing is still a bit bruised from the last crash.

I've decided it needs a new set of wings. Front and back. I'm very proud of the tail group, I built them from scratch, and they're lovely, but heavy. (my GP SE5a's set weighs less than half)
The front 2 wings together on this Albatros are slightly heavier than the pair on my GP SE5a, and the SE5a has MUCH more wing area.

The Albatros is just too heavy. It needs more power, or less weight. I'm not interested in more power, it would be exceeding a scale look, and my abilities.

The original wings are mostly thin plywood, and have a double layer covering. If/when I make new ones, they'll be balsa, and have just silkspan covering. I may even scale them up just a hair - or at least the lower wing.

The plane is at 20oz, ready to fly, so I'm hoping I can get it down to 17oz at the most. I'm also thinking about taking the skin off the rear of the fuse and re-building with balsa. Ply is just too heavy. Maybe next winter's project. :sad:

7car7
06-17-2008, 06:28 AM
The re-build has begun!

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=426201#post426201

Percyflyer
06-21-2008, 06:40 PM
What paint did you use for the "wood" look?

thanks
steve
www.hoosierdawnpatrol.com

7car7
06-23-2008, 04:27 PM
If I recall correctly, I shot it with a primer for plastic, (white - pretty light coat) then shot over that with a krylon light tan enamel. After that I used Acrylic from the craft store. (comes in a plastic bottle). I used a few different colors, like tan, a mustard color, and brown, and also black. I put it on with a VERY dry brush. (put paint on your brush, and dab that onto a pallet (paper plate) until most is off. Oh, I use a coarse bristle brush too.
I start with the mustard or tan, and then work in some brown, and even a VERY light touch with black for graining. I got the panel look by masking off each section, and painting separately.
After it was done, I went over the whole thing with a transperant yellow made by Tamiya from the hobby store. That gives it the slight shine, and the varnished look. Really brings it to life with that yellow.