Bananahobby Cessna 182

[chemie]

Bought the Cessna 182 from Bananahobby.com
http://www.bananahobby.com/1299.html

I had some problems in assembling; any input appreciated.
* Instructions say to insert elevator into rear body. Only problem is that the elevator is wider than the slot. What to do? I go to manufacturers site where they give an important instruction not in the book. You need to cut a slot to insert elevator. OK; no problem. Make the cut and glue. Glue in rudder and do a check-out.
Down elevator...works. UP? Nope. nothing. I check for problems with servo etc and then take a closer look at rear section. There is a cut-out below the rubber to allow elevator to move down but nothing above. The elevator is a single piece with a inch section conecting each side. This one inch section has to move up and down freely and while the bottom has a slot open, it is flat on top. There is physically no way for it to move up.

Called vendor and no answer but the more I look, the more I am convinced there is no easy solution.

Being impatient (at least I read instructions but that is about it), I fix myself. I used a hot solder gun to melt out a corresponding opening above the elevator in the main body of the tail. It now works.

My question: How could such a fundemental flaw exist? Did I miss something? Any Monday morning QB want to point out a better solution or fix which I should have done. Yes, my wife was yelling I should call and not touch but like I said, there has to be clearance for the rudder to move up. I am just surprised that a model would be sold which clearly can not work as built.

Pics attached. "Cessnaup1" is from manufacturers site which shows "original" where you can see the straight top preventing elevator movement up (also shows the cut which was not in the instructions). "Back wing" is from bananahobby site which clearly shows the elevator and the lack of clearance for the rear portion of the elevator to swing upwards (If you look closely, you can see a 1 inch section in the middle and it is this section which needs clearance to swing up and down). "Bottom" one shows bottom section of mine where there is clearance while "Top" shows the cut manually made for clearance.

Comments?

Any one else have expereience (same problem or better experience) with this model?

A few more questions:

1. This is for my 14 year odl son. He has some experience with small 2-ch park flyers. My plan was to start with ailerons disconnected (via wiring). Will the un-powered servos stop any movement or do the ailerons need to be taped to prevent movement while flying? Or should I leave connected and just remind him to avoid using them?

2. I have this model on FMS (thanks to these forums) but you can not turn off the ailerons. Any rudder turn causes a bank which can only be corrected with aileron input. Any suggestions? For now, I have been using a Slo-V 3 ch model for him to train.

3. On FMS, he prefers to use the "chase" view dispite my protests...Is this doing more harm than good? I want him to use fixed view (like real world) but it is hard since a close zoom makes ground reference difficult and long zoom makes seeing the plane impossible. Any suggestions?

I might try to sign him up for the local flying club but not sure he will go for it as he is rather shy about these sorts of things. My reminders about a broken mess after first flight may or may not help push him to the idea of a instructor. Any comments on ability (with or without aileron connected) for "self instruction" route? (assuming calm day and a "Nintendo generation" FMS-trained kid; he "gets" the reverse controls depending on plane coming or going and is fairly slow on his control movements)

4. Can this considered a "park flyer" meaning once trained, he could fly in our back yard which has about 3 acres of open area surrounded by very heavily treed regions)? MY concern with this option is landing as he would have to nail the driveway to land. We are about 2 miles from a muni airport...do I need to be worried? AMA site seemed to imply we just need to stay below 400 feet?

Thanks all.

[meesier42]

I bought my brother the same plane for when he is ready to go to the 4ch plane, he is flying the HZ Supercub as a 3ch trainer.

I noticed the same thing about the H-stab. I was warned about using this plane w/o ailerons as the wing has no diherdral to correct the plane after a turn. And that wing is truly flat.

This is why I went with the WingDragon 4 from Bannana Hobby as well, but I also got a WingDragon wing (3ch verison, yellow) to work without ailerons for a while then have a good aileron trainer when I was ready. Unforetunately there are a bunch of other things wrong with that plane, but man is it a sweet flyer once she gets going. But I would not recommend flying that plane w/o the ailerons as I think it would kill you quickly, but there are many people here more expirienced than I that can help you there.

as for the Muni Airport, I think you should be fine given that you stay low (less than 400ft seems reasonable). I think at that range you are outside the controled airspace for most muni airports.

[chemie]

The instructions suggest to fly w/o ailerons at first...but then again I already commented on the quality of those instructions.

What is a "diherdral" and its significance?

Perhaps the FMS is more realistic than I thought for those turns? You are suggesting with a rudder-only turn it will stay banked? That would be bad if the ailerons were not connected...not sure how to level off.

I bought this over the TB-20 at hobby-lobby as this one offerred top-mount wing which I understood to be better for beginner.

EBIT: This model comes in both 3-ch and 4-ch so I would have thought it would be easy to fly w/o ailerons. In fact, the plan was to buy this and run in its 3-ch mode as starting trainer and then "upgrade" with the same plane to 4-ch tainer.

[meesier42]

dihedral is where the wing is angled upward from the center. this causes the lift vector to be directed towards the center of the plane and creates a righting moment above the CG to level the wings. Without a dihedral you need ailerons to control the roll of the plane.

I looked into the TB-20 as well. but was very hessitant to get a low wing as the first plane.

I guess I would recommend getting another trainer plane that is easier to fly. these are the ones that I looked into and really like.
Wingo (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/hlwingo.htm), EasyStar (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/easystar.htm), HZ Supercub (http://www.redrockethobbies.com/Hobby_Zone_Super_Cub_RTF_Electric_p/hbz7100.htm), and finally the WingDragon (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/wingdragon.htm)

I chose the Wing Draon Sportster (from Banana hobby) and purchased the 3ch wing for it. This allows me to have both a 3ch and a 4ch plane with only 1 fuse, radio, motor, etc...

Although I had to modify a bunch of things to make it a sweet flyer, I learned alot, and the repairs were easy and not expensive.

Although I was given a HZ supercub for xmas and it is a great and very easy flyer, I appreciate both planes right now. The S. cub is great, but it has a 27MHz radio and all propriatary electronics which I really don't like.

The WD outperforms it and when I am ready I can throw the 4ch wing on and I already know how she performs and the reinforcements are already complete.

I am sorry that the guys over at Banana Hobby lead you wrong, they did the same thing to me, even selling me a 3channel that was actually a 2 channel.

Given your situation I would probably get him a HZ SuperCub because the parts for that are available at every LHS that I have been to and the parts are cheap.

[chemie]

Thanks Meesiers.

Can anyone else provide more insight/answers to original post?

[meesier42]

if you are asking about the fundamental flaw in the fuselage. Well I think that I can shed some insight into that as well. From what I understand this plane was orignally sold under the Art-tech brand name, and the SkyArtec is simply a the chinese company that makes them selling them cheap with an off-brand name. And its little things like doing that cutout add to the price.

I just found on Parkflyers.com, they sell a 3ch wing for the Art-tech verison of the wing.
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/spare_parts_182.html

I am sure (although I am haven't seen it) that if they make it then it must fly reasonably well. That is an option that will work much better than flying with Ailerons disconnected.

[chemie]

Interesting. It is not unheard of for China factory to sell "extras" blackmarket.

The Skyartec version was $30 cheaper and came with brushless motor and Li-Po versus the parkflyers version.

I can not tell from the photos if there is a difference in the tail section cut-out. But went to review site with more picture:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=554
You can see the tail section is very different. Instead of a large lower key-hole, there is a VERY small circular cut out. It looks to me like the elevator has a larger portion cut-out where it is inside the tail section allowing for less clearance required to move up and down.
However, at this review:
http://www.parkflyers.com/PRCessna182.pdf
It appears from the photo to have a larger key hole, more like my "mod". I blew up and attached. Looks like upper key hole goes all the way through to the top of the tail wing body.


Anyone buy the parkflyer version out there who can comment?

Meesier: Which one do you have and what is your plan to fix if bananahobby?

Is there a difference between taping off ailerons versus buying the 3-ch wing?

PS Thanks for the link. There is a better selection of spare parts vs bananahobby site.

[Leo L]

Hi Chemie,

I'm not sure how similar your plane is to the original ArtTech version (which is sold in the USA under the ParkFlyers name). You would be the best judge. My comments are based on my experience with the ArtTech plane.

The Cessna 182 is a strikingly beautiful plane, but it is absolutely not suited for beginners. I bought it as my first plane, but when I received it, I realized that I would destroy it if I treid to fly it with no experience, so I set it aside and learned to fly with a Firebird Commander, Aerobird Challenger, J3Cub, SuperDecathlon and AirStrike. When I was finally ready for aileron flight, I assembled the Cessna and tried to fly it. On my first attempt, the plane taxied, took off, climbed to 3ft. stalled and crashed. Snapped the wing in half. I glued the wing together and reinforced it with a carbon rod and tape. Tried to fly it again and it wouldn't get enough speed to more than barely lift off the ground and then settle back down. When I finally got it to take off, the electronics started to glitch terribly, cutting the motor in and out, along with the controls. I was determined to get the plane to fly, so I spent more than $200 over the original cost of the plane, replacing the electronics, motor, battery, landing gear, etc. I finally got the plane to fly well enough to say that I didn't let it beat me, but it was never an enjoyable plane to fly.

If you do a search here, and on the RCGroups and RCUniverse forums regarding the ArtTech Cessna182, you'll find that opinions split right down the middle. Half of the flyers absolutely love their plane, with some mounting cameras on them, etc. The other half absolutely hate the plane, having little or no success getting it to fly. However, almost everyone agrees on three points: 1) its a very brittle plane that is easily damaged, particularly the wing; 2) its not suited for beginners; 3) its an absolutely beautifull looking plane.

Please do your son, and yourself, a favor and set the Cessna aside and start him with a great beginner plane like the HobbyZone SuperCub. Once he has the experience, let him fly the Cessna. Hopefully yours will be in the "love it" half.

[meesier42]

The Skyartec version was $30 cheaper and came with brushless motor and Li-Po versus the parkflyers version.
Meesier: Which one do you have and what is your plan to fix if bananahobby?

Is there a difference between taping off ailerons versus buying the 3-ch wing?


well, I will answer to the best of my knowledge
I don't have any of them, I got the Skyartec with brushless for my brother, but I had it in my hands for about a month before xmas came around for me to give it to him. As far as fixing it, I recommended to him that he reinforce the wing with CF rods as already mentioned.

now I don't know if this is true with this plane, but I know its true with my Wing Dragon sportster. The 3ch wing has good bit of dihedral in it, and the 4ch wing has much less. I just measured the wings (with one wing flat on the table, and measuring the amount the wing is off the table at the other tip)
3ch SuperCub wing- 4inches
3ch WingDragon wing- 2.5 inches
4ch WD wing- 1 inch

if this is true (and I assume that it is) the 3ch 182 should have some dihedral while the 4ch 182 has no dihedral. as the dihedral adds a leveling force to the wing, this makes it easier to fly. I would call shops that sell it and ask how much (if any) dihedral that it has.

Based on your purposes of getting your son to fly, I can highly recommend the Hobbyzone SuperCub, as it is a very easy flyer and is a fantastic starter plane and should allow both you and your son to learn while having loads of fun. Not to mention avoiding the heartache of spends hours to fix it after only seconds of flight time.

[chemie]

In reading some of the thread on RCUniverse, I found a picture of both the 4-ch wing and the 3-ch wing (one on top of the other) where the poster was asking about if he had repaired the 4-ch too flat. Anyway, from the pictures it looks like you are correct. The 3-ch has much more dihedral.

Maybe I will buy a 3-ch wing for him to start on versus just turning off ailerons and trying to fly such a flat wing.

[jecchile]

CHEMIE, I am thinking of buying a ArtTech plane from BananaHobby and I would like your opinion as to BananaHobby's service quality and your experience with them... I sent them an E-Mail asking a couple of questions but have not received an answer - not very good for business if you ask me...
Also, how is the quality of the plane and electronics from ArtTech?
Thanks...

[meesier42]

I got my Wing Dragon from them which is also an Art-tech plane and my opinion is their customer service is not very good, but they are cheap and they ship pretty quickly. I have actually gotten 3 planes from them, 1 trainer for me, 1 3D plane for me when I am ready, and the 182 for my brother, plus one that they advertised as a 3ch which was actually a 2ch and hence was returned.

Overall, they did a good job packing them to protect the plane and as I said their shipping was fast enough.

As for Art-tech- well so far I have had to upgrade or reinforce pretty much everything on the plane. The elevator servo stripped out after about 20-30 minutes of flying time. The rx and tx seem to be just fine so far. And the wing is pretty tough and durable. The motor wasn't worth keeping for even day one, as it was underpowered enough that it would do nothing but crash. My best flight with the stock motor was about a minute. As soon as I replaced it with a TowerPro 2408-21-3A brushless motor the next flight was almost 10 minutes and the landing was more of a hard landing than a crash.

basically- if you need advice, don't call BananaHobby, if you want an Art-tech plane- be prepared to upgrade parts. If I were to do it again, I would probably buy the parts and the electronics seperately and put better stuff in from the get go. But I know a lot more about the planes now than I did when I got it.

[jecchile]

I appreciate your comments... I think I will be doing my business some place else as I have heard bad comments about BananaHobby... being "cheap" is one thing but having poor service is something else, especially if the merchandise you are selling is not very quality oriented.

The Art-Tech planes look nice on the pictures but I understand that they are underpowered and that the radios may not be totally reliable - if the electronics and power systems are not up to par, then they become "expensive" as you need to buy everything new.

Unless I can find them around here, in a local Hobby Shop, I will stay away from them. So far, I have not seen Art-Tech being sold around here.

Thanks again for your comments.

Good flying...

[meesier42]

well as far as BananaHobby goes, I like the fact that they ship quickly and are cheap.

As for the WingDragon or Art-tech in general. I have been flying the HZ Supercub as well recently and IMHO I like the Wing Dragon better, its much more responsive, climbs better and glides much better. That's not saying that I don't like the Supercub because I really do, but I like it because it is so easy to fly... I prefer the WD for its performance.

If I were to do it again, I would have gotten the WD as my second plane and built if from parts. As I know that I am going to buy a good radio before I try to fly 3D, that cost become less important. With the GWS Naro servo's, 3s LiPos, the TP 2408 brushless motor, it really becomes a beautiful flyer. And one thing that I really like is that as soon as I am ready for it, I will be swapping from my 3ch wing to the 4ch aileron trainer wing and I'll already know how the motor, rudder, elevators respond. Meaning that all the improvements are already complete and the fuse is ready to fly.

Overall I like the Art-tech plane, but the electronics on it are crap. I can't say for sure about the Tx and Rx, as they seem to be working just fine and they are on the 72MHz band.

[chemie]

The bananahobby version is a "Skyartec" and not "Art-tech". From what I have seen on other sites, they have different electronics. No idea if they are better or worse as I have not flown the Banana one yet. Test runs in the basement, seemed like the motor ran very well but I do not have a lot of compare to.

I did not require any service. They did ship quickly, it was a great price for a Li-Op 4-ch system and the shipping came very quickly in good shape.

[meesier42]

they do have the Art-tech one for sale as well, but it is lacking the brushless/lipo upgrades the SkyArtec one has for the same price
http://www.bananahobby.com/1071.html

[GT5500]

being "cheap" is one thing but having poor service is something else, especially if the merchandise you are selling is not very quality oriented.
Good flying...
No being cheap is not one thing, its everything! you can't expect top notch service and quality products from these dodgy cheap chinese clone/ripoff shops. I've have rarely read a good word in bannana hobby's favour on these forums, I know for one thing it wouldn't be a vendor I would use personally.

[chemie]

Thanks messiers...that is new at their site (I think). To answer jecchile, I did read in some other forums that the base model motor and NiMh batteries are not good and everyone recommended the version with brushless and LiPo. So the Skyartec version gives you this "better" system for less price. As others have observed, the question is then "Is it of equal quality" and I can not answer that. I can tell you I have the Skyartec version and all is well so far after "fixing" the assembly short-comings. Time will tell on electronics.