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Fly Time
01-20-2008, 07:12 PM
I've slowly been assembling a Mini Gee Bee Senior Sportster ARF that I got for Christmas. Here's the stats: Balsa and ply with Monokote covering, 48.5" wingspan, 36" long, 34 oz AUW.

The kit comes from Hobby Lobby and appears to be an exclusive model. The box is plain with nothing printed on it, and the instructions offer no clue as to who manufactured it or even what country it came from.

Nevertheless, it is a beautifully constructed kit! In fact, I really cannot find a single thing to gripe about with the design or build quality. All the balsa parts are straight and true, the covering is perfect with no bubbles or sags, and the included hardware is all of good quality. The cowl and wheel pants are painted fiberglass and look great.

The only drawback is the manual, which starts off by mentioning the need for 2 servo extensions when actually 4 are needed. It also doesn't say how long they need to be, but a quick measurement shows I'll need them to be 12" to the tail and at least 6" to the ailerons (I decided to go with 12" all around).

I suspect the manual is missing pages 1 and 10. There is no mention of CG or recommended control surface throws, and the installation of cowling, struts and windscreen is not detailed anywhere. Thankfully, I found a review of this plane on RCG that includes the CG stats. The rest I will figure out for myself.

I'll be powering it with the recommended motor and ESC from Hobby Lobby (thanks to my wife and kids for including them with the kit :ws:), which is an Atlas 2317/16 outrunner and Atlas Black 20 amp ESC. I got some WOW RC 17 gram mini servos from Heads Up RC along with servo extensions, Y harness and some props of varying sizes. I also got a Berg 4 channel microstamp Rx from b-p-p.com.

pd1
01-20-2008, 11:36 PM
Doug, that looks nice.
Larger than the Green Models Gee Bee.


Here's one of the full sized.52816

Paul

Fly Time
01-20-2008, 11:49 PM
Doug, that looks nice.
Larger than the Green Models Gee Bee.


Here's one of the full sized.52816

Paul

Yep, Green Models are nice too. More scale detailing by the looks of it.

Fly Time
01-21-2008, 06:06 AM
For me, one of the things I love about scale aircraft is getting to know the history behind the real airplane. The Gee Bee model that I'm building is particularly interesting, so I thought I would share what I've learned.

I would say this airplane kit is semi-scale at best, but it is unmistakably modeled after the Gee Bee Model Y Senior Sportster. The Model Y was first built in 1931 by the Granville Brothers Aircraft as a high-performance two-seat sport plane. It was an expensive airplane for its time, and the Great Depression made it very difficult to sell even modestly priced planes. As a result, only two of the Model Y were ever built. The one that I am building has the registration number NR718Y printed on the wing and tail, which was the second and final one built.

NR718Y was originally powered by a 215 HP Lycoming R-680 radial engine, and the first owner of record was Lycoming's parent company, E.L. Cord Corporation. It had two seats, but the front seat windshield folded down into the fuselage and the cockpit opening was covered over when flown solo.

After a year or two, NR718Y was sold to Art Knapp, who modified the airplane into an air racer. He replaced the 215 HP engine with a 450 HP Wright Whirlwind and made various other improvements to reduce drag. Unfortunately, though he made the plane faster, he did not make it stronger, and in September 1933, during the Chicago International Air Races, a wing panel blew off during the Phillips Trophy race. The plane left the course and after a short distance it stalled and crashed into a tree, killing pilot Florence Klingensmith and destroying the airplane.

The other Model Y, NC11049, was kept as a company plane by Granville Brothers Aircraft, and it was raced successfully for several years before it was sold at a bankruptcy auction in 1934. Soon thereafter, it too was lost to a crash.

Although none of the original Model Y's exist today, there a couple of replicas, including one that was built in the 1980's (see picture). I have seen it fly, as well as a few other Gee Bee replicas (including the magnificant R-1), and they are truly beautiful airplanes!

Fly Time
01-22-2008, 07:18 PM
This the first balsa and ply airplane I've owned since I built a 40 sized nitro trainer back around 1990 (it didn't last long :rolleyes:), and even though it is an ARF, there are still plenty of opportunities for noob mistakes.

All of the control surfaces are hinged and assembled, but not glued. The instructions say to use thin CA to install the control horns and affix the hinges. So, starting with the stabilizer, I removed the elevator and drilled a couple of pilot holes for the control horn. Then I applied some CA and pushed the horn into place, but I used more glue than I needed and the excess dripped over the black covering. I quickly grabbed a rag and wipped the excess off only to leave a large smudge across the formerly shiney surface :(

Next I applied some CA to the CA hinges and pushed the elevator back into position on the stab. Another noob mistake! The CA cured before the hinges were pushed all the way into the slots cut into the wood, so now there is a 1/4" gap between the stab and elevator :roll: (sorry I don't have pictures - I was too upset with myself). Of course the CA is holding tight, so just as I cannot push it in further, neither can I pull it out.

Okay, lesson learned. I will just have to re-do it. I'll cut it off and install new hinges (after a trip to the LHS). No biggie. Might as well do the rudder since I am on a roll...

Control horn installed okay, no drips (yea!). Insert the CA hinges, THEN apply a drop of CA (now I see how you're supposed to do it!). So far so good. I think to myself: maybe I should apply a second drop to the other side for good measure. Oops! Too much CA for the hinge to absorb and another big drip, promptly converted to a fully cured smudge. Damn!

Since all of this happened, I went to the LHS and got some new CA hinges and installed them with no more problems. I asked about something to take off the CA smudges, but he said there was no such product. He recommended fine grit sandpaper (maybe I'll just re-cover the tail sections).

But then, I found something called CA de-bonder on-line. Has anyone used this on Monokote covering? I ordered a bottle and will see how it works. Hopefully it doesn't ruin the covering.

pd1
01-22-2008, 09:01 PM
Doug, Acetone will remove the smudge.

You can get acetone at Home Depot.
I also soak the tips from my CA in acetone when I'm done with them.

If you do that, make sure you let them dry fully before using them again.

Liquid acetone will accelerate CA.
It turns the stuff to gel in the bottle.
Don't ask me how I know this.

Paul

Fly Time
01-22-2008, 09:14 PM
Doug, Acetone will remove the smudge.

You can get acetone at Home Depot.
I also soak the tips from my CA in acetone when I'm done with them.

If you do that, make sure you let them dry fully before using them again.

Liquid acetone will accelerate CA.
It turns the stuff to gel in the bottle.
Don't ask me how I know this.

Paul

Thanks Paul. That is probably the same thing that I just ordered from horizon, only probably cheaper than $5 for a half ounce bottle :roll: Next time I will ask here first.

Fly Time
01-22-2008, 09:56 PM
Looking ahead on this build, I have a question about my Rx antenna that I have posted in the Radio Tx and Rx forum: http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29732

Fly Time
01-23-2008, 06:11 AM
Here's a pic of my CA smudged tail :roll:

Fly Time
01-23-2008, 06:14 AM
The next step is to install the rudder and elevator servos. The manual suggests using micro servos. I will use WOW-RC 17 gram micro servos (http://cgi.ebay.com/SERVO-WOW-RC-17-gram-Micro-Servo_W0QQitemZ220185053846QQihZ012QQcategoryZ3405 6QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem)from Heads Up RC (eBay). These are a little stronger than the TP SG90 (HS-55 knock-offs) servos that I am accustomed to using, and a little more expensive too (4 for $40 is Jeff's price).

The fuselage has cut-outs and pre-installed plywood mounting plates for the servos, but despite the fact that the manual recommends micro servos, the openings are sized for the slightly smaller sub-micro servos. Okay, so maybe I was too quick to say the kit is perfect. Though come to think of it, that is probably intentional. You can always make a cut-out larger, but making it smaller is considerably more difficult.

Thankfully, in addition to this airplane kit, my wife also gave me a Dremel rotary tool for Christmas, which made quick work of enlarging the holes for a perfect fit.

After installing the servos with 12" servo extensions, I connected the servo arms to the control surfaces using the supplied push rods and clevises. The control horns needed to be drilled out in order to accept the clevis pin, but otherwise they connected perfectly.

The clevises don't exactly snap tight when you close them, and the kit did not come with rubber tubing to go over them, so I will definately need to pick some up before flying. If I recall, fuel line tubing works well. Too bad I got rid of all my nitro stuff a few years ago. Looks like another trip to the LHS.

pd1
01-23-2008, 01:36 PM
Doug, That smudge will come off easily.
I'd use acetone and save the expensive debonder for something more critical.

I once put a canopy on with CA.
Seemed like a good idea at the time.

The canopy got all foggy on the inside when the CA set.
That won't wash off.

Plane looks good so far, looking forward to the finished shots.

Paul

gfdengine204
01-23-2008, 03:08 PM
Doug,

I have no experience with it, but I was told by an experienced builder/flyer from my club that Top Flite Trim Solvent (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHZ43&P=7) will take care of the CA mistakes on your covering. It supposedly will make it look good-as-new!

Again, no personal experience, but I trust his advice.

Fly Time
01-23-2008, 03:21 PM
Thanks for the advice Paul and Kev. I'm going to give the acetone a try to start, and I've already ordered canopy glue so as not to make the same mistake installing the windscreen.

Fly Time
01-23-2008, 11:58 PM
The CA de-bonder arrived today. On the label: "contains acetone". Guess I won't bother stopping at Home Depot on the way home from work today :rolleyes:

gfdengine204
01-24-2008, 12:38 AM
Good luck Doug!

E-Challenged
01-24-2008, 02:20 AM
Get some RC56 Canopy glue. It is waterbased and thicker than thin CYA, and white, but dries clear. Use it to install "CYA" type hinges as well as to glue on clear plastic canopies or windows. You can wipe away excess with wet paper towel. It takes about a minute to set up. Make sure that slots are wide enough for hinges and that they line up properly on both parts. Now, work glue into slots with knife blade, insert hinges half way and push pins through wing or tail to hold hinges temporarily. Now work glue into other hinge slots and slide hinges into the slots. Work the control surface up and down to make a small gap to allow movement. Let glue dry. Practice on some scrap balsa until you get the feel of it.

Fly Time
01-24-2008, 05:12 AM
I tried the de-bonder on my CA smudges, and it works pretty well on the fingerprint smudges, but wherever there was a drip that I attempted to wipe up with a cloth, it takes multiple applications to come clean.

The de-bonder (Z-7 De-bonder by Pacer) is weird stuff. It is jelled acetone, colored red and scented to smell vaguely like Jolly Rancher candy. It works though :ws:

Fly Time
01-24-2008, 06:18 AM
According to the manual, the next step is to assemble the wings, but I am going to skip ahead and install the motor and electronics first. To begin with, I will need to install T-connectors to the ESC. The leads are only about 3" long from the ESC, so I would also like to add a few inches. There is nothing worse than strugling with tight fitting connectors when there is no extra slack in the battery connection leads! After checking the location of everything in the battery compartment, I figured an extra 3" would do the trick. I soldered the additional length of wire onto the end of the leads followed by Deans Ultra Connectors.

The motor, an Atlas 2317/16 (http://www.hobby-lobby.com/atlas2317.htm) outrunner mounts to a plywood mounting box via the x-mount included with the motor. The box then mounts to blind nuts installed in the firewall. A perfect fit! The only problem is that neither the firewall nor motor mount has any built-in thrust angle, and in fact the manual warns that it is up to the builder to determine the optimal angle, if any, to shim in. I used a couple of thin washers to build in 2-3 degrees of right thrust. I won't build in any down thrust until I see how it flies.

Next, I connect the motor to the ESC and Rx to make sure the motor is spinning in the right direction. I program the transmitter to channel 39 (I love my synthesized frequency Tx!), hook up a battery and advance the throttle. It runs! And in the right direction too.

Next, I push the ESC through the firewall and mount it to the underside of the battery tray using double sided adhesive pads. The battery leads come up through the framework of the tray, and are long enough to extend several inches out of the airframe for ease of battery connection.

The Rx is affixed to the side of the fuselage just above the wing using velcro self adhesive tape. From there it will be easy to connect the aileron servo wires, and the servo extensions coming from the tail reach with room to spare.

To keep the plane neat and clean, I am going to try to keep the Rx antenna inside the fuselage (that will also save me from being razzed by the 2.4 GHz guys for using ancient RC technology!). The fuselage is long and wide, so I should be able to run it up one side and down the other without sacrificing much range. I will do an extra-long-distance range check before attempting to fly just to be safe.

Fly Time
01-24-2008, 06:22 AM
Here's some before and after pictures of my tail. CA smudges gone! :ws:

Fly Time
01-24-2008, 06:31 AM
Get some RC56 Canopy glue...
I got some "Formula 560" Canopy Glue by Pacer in the mail today. I will keep your tip in mind next time I have hinges to install. I've actually already installed the ailerons on this build. I just haven't gotten around to writing about it yet.

BTW, I like your avatar, but I can't quite tell which Gee Bee model it is. You should post a larger picture on here so we can see it better.

Fly Time
01-25-2008, 05:44 AM
Now for the wings. Installing the ailersons was pretty much the same as the rudder and elevator: install horn; glue the hinges with CA (I'm getting much better - no drips!); enlarge the recesses for the servos; install servos and pushrods. Piece of cake!

One thing that I really appreciate: they have tacked in a length of thread from the servo bay to the wing root for pulling the servo wires and extensions through the center of the wing. Before installing the servos, I tied the thread to the servo extension and pulled it through the wing to a neatly cut exit hole. Thank you HL - that was a real time saver!

Next is the landing gear. The gear wire is formed into a triangular shape by very sturdy looking solder joints. It is made of heavy guage wire, and between the thickness of the wire and the triangular design, there won't be much flex. I've seen some complaints about this over at RCG, so landings are going to have to be smooth!

The gear wire slides into plywood reinforced slots on the bottom of the wing. The intructions say to epoxy them into place, but they are so tight fitting that I chose not to glue them in. The force of landing will only push them further into the slots, and it would take a whole lotta G's to pull them out in flight. I will check them frequently to make sure they are not loosening in the slots.

After the gear wire is installed, the fiberglass fairings are affixed with two self-tapping screws. The fairings have a large enough opening to get the wheels in there and secured to the wire with wheel collars.

The wing halfs join together with no glue so they can easily be removed for transportation and storage; another very nice design feature. There is a plywood spar joiner that extends about 4" into each wing at the spar; another joiner going from the leading edge into the fuselage; and two hex screws holding the wing to blind nuts installed in the fuselage near the trailing edge. Neat, strong and secure! I gotta say, I am more impressed with the engineering that went into this kit with each step of assembly.

I sure hope it flies as well as it goes together!

Grasshopper
01-25-2008, 02:54 PM
That's looking really nice Doug. The Gee Bees have such cool lines to them and the black and red really stands out.

Can't wait to hear how she flys.

Fly Time
01-25-2008, 04:12 PM
Hey what do you guys think about painting props? The prop I have for this thing is butt-ugly yellowish-biege. I was thinking it would look good sprayed chrome.

pd1
01-25-2008, 04:33 PM
Yes, by all means paint it.
I like GWS orange.
But I suppose if you must go with another color, silver would be nice.

Paul

Fly Time
01-25-2008, 08:43 PM
Yes, by all means paint it.
I like GWS orange.
But I suppose if you must go with another color, silver would be nice.

Paul
GWS orange clashes with red, otherwise I would be all over it! :p

The prop I have (it's a Tower Pro 10x5 from Heads Up RC) clashes with every color under the sun :roll:

I sure hope I can find a silver or chrome spray paint that will coat it evenly. I'll see what the LHS has, but suggestions are welcome. I also need a new silver prop nut. For some reason the Atlas came with a blue one to match the motor case. Why would anyone want that???

Grasshopper
01-25-2008, 08:46 PM
GWS orange clashes with red, otherwise I would be all over it! :p

The prop I have (it's a Tower Pro 10x5 from Heads Up RC) clashes with every color under the sun :roll:

I sure hope I can find a silver or chrome spray paint that will coat it evenly. I'll see what the LHS has, but suggestions are welcome. I also need a new silver prop nut. For some reason the Atlas came with a blue one to match the motor case. Why would anyone want that???

The blue is most likely an anodized finish. You might be able to steel wool it off. If you're not going to use it, it might be worth a try or spray paint it silver too.

pd1
01-25-2008, 08:52 PM
Doug, Just wash the prop nut with lacquer thinner and paint right over the anodized finish.
An anodized finish is a good base for paint.
If you lived closed, I could give you some Vari-Prime primer. It sticks real well to anodized aluminum.
Personally, I don't think the orange clashes.
Since I didn't get the Hopper to bite on the last one, Krylon silver should work on the prop.

Paul

Fly Time
01-25-2008, 09:13 PM
The blue is most likely an anodized finish. You might be able to steel wool it off. If you're not going to use it, it might be worth a try or spray paint it silver too.
I'm sure it is anodized. Good idea to take it off. Thanks!

Grasshopper
01-25-2008, 09:18 PM
Doug, although the GWS orange doesn't fit well on my warbirds as Paul has suggested I do (many times), I think it would look outstanding on the Gee Bee. He also told me the orange is much lighter than any other color prop.:D

Fly Time
01-25-2008, 09:43 PM
The cowling and wing struts are now installed. About all that is left is installing the windscreen and maybe some cosmetic improvements like painting the prop.

I dropped a battery in and fired it up to check control throws and taxi test it, and everything seems to be in good working order.

After about 5 minutes of moving the control surfaces and setting up end points and expo on the Tx, the elevator clevis popped off. :<: Wow - if that had happened in the air, this plane would be a gonner! I still have to go the the LHS for some rubber tubing to keep the clevises on, and you can bet I will not fly her before doing so.

Madman
01-25-2008, 11:53 PM
After about 5 minutes of moving the control surfaces and setting up end points and expo on the Tx, the elevator clevis popped off. :<: Wow - if that had happened in the air, this plane would be a gonner! I still have to go the the LHS for some rubber tubing to keep the clevises on, and you can bet I will not fly her before doing so.She's lookin' mighty purty.:$ If you find that the clevises are sized so that standard fuel-line tubing won't work, I've been know to get away with surgical tubing available in most drug-stores, or places that sell sling-shots. I like its flexibility, but not its color (sorta cross between baby-dookie yellow and bilious beige).

Fly Time
01-25-2008, 11:55 PM
...I like its flexibility, but not its color (sorta cross between baby-dookie yellow and bilious beige).
Hey, that's the same color as my prop!

Fly Time
01-26-2008, 02:16 AM
The front of the cowling on this plane is open and you can plainly see the blue Atlas outrunner inside, as well as a good portion of the plywood motor mount behind it. It doesn’t exactly look scale.

From my salvaged parts bin, I found a faux radial engine from a 40” ArtTech Corsair (RIP). I cut some small blocks of foam to hold the plastic engine inside the cowl in the right position and glued everything in place with hot glue. It looks much better now! :tc:

gfdengine204
01-26-2008, 02:22 AM
Doug, although the GWS orange doesn't fit well on my warbirds as Paul has suggested I do (many times), I think it would look outstanding on the Gee Bee. He also told me the orange is much lighter than any other color prop.:D

I'm curious......

How is the orange prop lighter?

After all, orange is red AND yellow........

Wouldn't it be TWICE as heavy as either of those colors alone? :Q


Doug,

Looking sweet. Can't wait to see the maiden video.

Fly Time
01-26-2008, 02:32 AM
Looking sweet. Can't wait to see the maiden video.
Thanks Kev. It is soooo close! But it probably won't be for another week at least. I'm headed up to BC for some skiing, so the maiden will have to wait.

gfdengine204
01-26-2008, 02:46 AM
Gotta have your priorities, buddy!

Madman
01-26-2008, 03:50 AM
Thanks Kev. It is soooo close! But it probably won't be for another week at least. I'm headed up to BC for some skiing, so the maiden will have to wait.In the first post on this thread, you already told us you have a wife and kids that you have trained to buy you great toys for Christmas, and now you say you're going skiing while keeping some young maiden waiting? What a guy!::o

Fly Time
01-26-2008, 04:42 AM
In the first post on this thread, you already told us you have a wife and kids that you have trained to buy you great toys for Christmas, and now you say you're going skiing while keeping some young maiden waiting? What a guy!::o
So true! And they have me trained to take them on ski vacations. :rolleyes:

And the young maiden....

she will be waiting patiently for my return :D

Fly Time
02-11-2008, 12:06 AM
Here's a few more pictures of the finished Gee Bee, painted prop and all. It is balanced and ready to fly, but the weather says "not today". In fact, if the extended forecast is right, it may not be for awhile :(

The last picture of the battery comparment shows how much room there is in there. The velcro strap is stock, but it doesn't do much to keep the battery from sliding forward and back, so I cut some foam to form a cradle to hold the battery a little more firmly. The 2200 mAh lipo fits snugly.

The plane balances with the battery all the way forward and 1 oz of lead in the nose. That's the downside of the heavy high-torque servos I installed in the tail.

Grasshopper
02-11-2008, 01:09 AM
Wow, that's beautiful Doug. It looks fast.

One trick I've done on several of my planes to keep a battery from sliding around is to get some of the non skid rubber coated place mats from Wal-Mart and glue a piece the size of the battery on the tray. Then set your battery on it and strap it in with velcro. It won't slide any where and still lets you get air all around the battery.

Nice job!

pd1
02-11-2008, 01:40 PM
Doug, That really looks nice.
Waiting for the flight report.
Well Done.

Paul

Fly Time
02-18-2008, 06:19 PM
I finally got to maiden my Gee Bee Model Y on Saturday. She flies beautifully! My son was taking photos, but the camera battery went dead before I flew her :rolleyes: There was another guy there video taping it, so I am waiting for him to put it up on Youtube.

Keeping the Rx antenna inside the fuselage didn't work so well. During my range check, it started glitching at about 30 paces with the Tx antenna down, so I decided to let it hang out the battery hatch. With the antenna out, there was still a tiny bit of glitching at 50 paces, but I decided it was good enough. To be sure, I taxi tested it out about 75 yards and seemed to be in full control. Good to go!

I let the plane accelerate slowly to take off, but as soon as it was in the air I pushed the throttle forward and pulled back on the stick and it jumped up to about 50 feet before leveling it off. It is definately not underpowered! After trimming it out, I put it through some loops and rolls and found it quite capable and predictable. After reading other reviews on RGG, I was expecting a slow flyer, but with the throttle open she moves pretty good :tc:

After 5 or 6 minutes, I brought her around to land. It slows down nicely, but with the big low wing, it has a tendancey to float in ground effect. There is a large pile of fill dirt at the far end of the landing area, and as she floated on down the runway I was getting worried that maybe I would run out of room! So I chopped the thottle and it dropped onto the pavement and bounced back into the air. Unfortunately, the second and final touch down broke one of the fiberglass wheel pants, so I did not get a second flight in. I should be able to fix it, but I'm thinking I will fly it without the wheel pants for the next few flights until I am better at landing.

pd1
02-18-2008, 08:26 PM
Glad to hear it went well.

Paul

Fly Time
03-05-2008, 08:31 PM
I've got 4 flights under my belt now and really love how this plane flies. I've got a couple of mods in mind to make it even better. For one, it is hard to land smoothly. This is due to the low flat wing giving the plane a lot of ground effect, and the stiff landing gear. Unless you land it real smoothly, it bounces back into the air. 3-point landings help, but I need more practice.

On the advice of someone over at RCG, I've ordered some landing gear for the Green Models 40" Gee Bee Sr. Sportster. I'm told it fits nicely and it has built-in knuckle shocks that do a good job of dampening the bounce of a less than perfect landing. I am also going to install a 6 channel Rx and program in spoilerons to kill some of the lift on landing. Hopefully that will allow it to settle onto the pavement a little quicker.

Finally, I am going to upgrade the motor to something a little stonger than stock. I have one of these (https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2106) laying around that should work nicely. I'll have to modify the mount a little, but it should be fairly easy. The stock motor works well, but I may rotate it into my Art Tech Corsair just for kicks :tc:

pd1
03-05-2008, 09:26 PM
Doug, That A22-20L motor is awesome.
I've got a half dozen here and I'm going to buy another two.

Lot's of power.
Paul

Fly Time
03-05-2008, 09:31 PM
Doug, That A22-20L motor is awesome.
I've got a half dozen here and I'm going to buy another two.

Lot's of power.
Paul
Excellent! That's just what I wanted to hear :D

The 20L is a bit heavier than the Atlas 2317/16, but that's okay because I had to add 3/4 oz of lead to the nose that will now be coming out.

pd1
03-05-2008, 09:36 PM
Doug, I'm using that motor in planes around two pounds.
What does the Gee Bee weigh?

Paul

Fly Time
03-05-2008, 09:40 PM
I haven't had mine on a scale yet, but it's probably right around 2 lbs. Hobby Lobby lists AUW at 34 oz, and mine is pretty much stock.

Angler-Hi
03-05-2008, 09:55 PM
Eager to hear how that landing gear mod works out for you. Let us know. I might have to do the same thing to mine.

P.S. Thanks for all your help with advice.

Mike

Grasshopper
03-05-2008, 10:00 PM
I'm using the A22-20L in my 40 ounce P-47 and it flys great.

Fly Time
03-05-2008, 10:00 PM
Eager to hear how that landing gear mod works out for you. Let us know. I might have to do the same thing to mine.

P.S. Thanks for all your help with advice.

Mike
Hey no problem bud (Mike and I have been PM'ing about this plane). I'm just glad to see I'm not the only one on here that has one.

Angler-Hi
03-05-2008, 10:01 PM
Thanks man. I can't wait to get her in the air. I think I'm definitely going to be hitting the sim as well as my Super Cub and maybe my F-18. I want to really perfect my landing skills.

Fly Time
03-05-2008, 11:46 PM
Doug, That A22-20L motor is awesome.
I've got a half dozen here and I'm going to buy another two.

Lot's of power.
Paul
Hey Paul. In case you're interested, I actually picked up my motor from this ebay seller (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZshopping_way) out of Hong Kong. They just refer to it as a 20L, but it's the same one that HobbyCity sells. I was buying one of their lipos (cheap and good by the way), saw the motor and added it to my purchase. Don't know what Hobbycity charges for shipping, but it's probably comparable in total.

pd1
03-06-2008, 01:11 AM
Doug,
I've been buying these motors from BlackdogRC.
I think he's getting $35 including shipping.
That's about $8 more.
His shipping is usually 2 to 3 days to me.
And he stands behind the products he sells.

You got a good price, and a good motor.
I think you'll be happy with it.

Paul

Fly Time
03-06-2008, 05:47 AM
I got home from work today to find my new landing gear from Green Models, less than 48 hours after I placed my order :)

Here are some pics, before and after. I'm very impressed! I had to widen the slot slightly to to make it fit, but otherwise it should work great.

Angler-Hi
03-06-2008, 01:50 PM
Can you still put the wheel pants on her with the new wheels?

Fly Time
03-06-2008, 02:21 PM
Can you still put the wheel pants on her with the new wheels?
Yes, they will still fit. I have only test fit the gear in the slots so far, but tonight I will epoxy them in place and re-attach the pants. I'll have to remove the wheel, slide the pant in place and then re-attach the wheel. With the stock wheels you could just barely squeeze the pants over the wheel without removing it.

Fly Time
03-06-2008, 02:24 PM
I forgot to mention, the new gear costs $25 plus S&H. I thought it was a bit much until I opened the package. For the quality, it is a great deal!

Fly Time
03-10-2008, 05:03 PM
I got a few flights in on Saturday with the new landing gear installed. I can't say that I landed any better, but they did a nice job of absorbing the bounce. Actually, "absorbing" is maybe not the right word. It still bounces with a bad landing, but at least the gear wire doesn't bend into the fragile wheel pants.

Next mod: spoilerons. I'm waiting for a 6 channel Rx to be delivered to replace the 4 channel unit already installed.

Angler-Hi
03-10-2008, 05:20 PM
I got a few flights in on Saturday with the new landing gear installed. I can't say that I landed any better, but they did a nice job of absorbing the bounce. Actually, "absorbing" is maybe not the right word. It still bounces with a bad landing, but at least the gear wire doesn't bend into the fragile wheel pants.

Next mod: spoilerons. I'm waiting for a 6 channel Rx to be delivered to replace the 4 channel unit already installed.

What are spoilerons?

Madman
03-10-2008, 05:50 PM
What are spoilerons?

In aeronautics spoilerons are spoilers that can be used asymmetrically to achieve the effect of ailerons, i.e. to roll an aircraft by reducing the ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoilerons (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=0&oi=define&q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoilerons&usg=AFQjCNFYFKmqNg__D_SZvEQIXvslDzCkwg)

Angler-Hi
03-10-2008, 06:02 PM
Thanks Madman! Those seem pretty darn cool! I can't wait to see what they actually look like.

Fly Time
03-10-2008, 07:30 PM
On a RC airplane, spoilerons are a little different than in full sized aircraft. A full sized airplane will have separate control surfaces for ailerons, flaps and spoilers. Spoilerons on a full sized airplane are designed to assist the ailerons in banking the wings. Spoilerons on a RC plane are just ailerons that are programmed to act as spoilers, not for assisting in banking and turning the plane, but to decrease the lift generated by the wing. You can also program ailerons to act as flaps (flaperons), which increase drag and lift.

The problem that I'm encountering with this plane is called ground effect. When the plane gets close to the ground, the air between the ground and the bottom of the wing compresses slightly and keeps the plane from settling onto the runway. Think of it like your car tires hydroplaning on water.

What I am hoping to do is to decrease the lift generated by the wing by programming the ailerons to both move up slightly with the flip of a switch on the transmitter. This will make the wing less efficient and will hopefully counteract the float that I am getting in ground effect. To do this you need a computer radio and each aileron servo connected to a separate channel on the Rx. My radio can do it, but right now all I have is a 4 channel Rx, so I cannot program the ailerons to do anything other than move in opposite directions.

Fly Time
03-25-2008, 09:59 PM
We had some unexpected good weather yesterday so I knocked off work a little early to go fly. This time of year most of my favorite flying parks are being used for baseball practice, so I settled on one that is a little small for a big fast flyer like the Gee Bee Model Y. I could have flown something else, but I was really looking forward to flying the Y.

Anyway, I had 3 good flights, attracting attention from kids and adults alike. It was the first time I had flown her off of grass and was quite pleased with its ability to get rolling and take off in a scale manner. Landings were tricky as usual, especially since I had to make my approach fairly steep to get her down with so many trees around the perimeter of the park. I was not able to bleed off enough speed, which caused some floating and bouncing on landing.

On my third landing, coming in hot as usual, I touched down in an area where there were tight clumps of grass growing up though compact soil. It was very rough but the knuckle springs sucked it up nicely. At least for the first bounce. On the second bounce, it hit a tuft of grass that was just to much to roll over, and the plane tipped forward violently, shattering one of the wheel pants! The other was damaged too :(

Except for the fragile wheels pants, the plane was fine. They were already cracked, and I have a spare set that I've been waiting to install, but I may just fly without them for awhile.

Angler-Hi
03-26-2008, 01:58 AM
Fly Time, I've definitely got to get those landing gear. Not only do they seem to work better for a harsh landing than the stock landing gear, but they look SWEET too.

Mike

Fly Time
03-26-2008, 04:24 AM
Fly Time, I've definitely got to get those landing gear. Not only do they seem to work better for a harsh landing than the stock landing gear, but they look SWEET too.

Mike
I like them a lot. They would be even better with shock absorbers like my son's RC monster truck. The springs are bouncey, but they are way better than the stock gear.

I think this plane lands best on mowed grass. It bounces on pavement and the wheels aren't big enough for rough ground or thick grass.

Angler-Hi
03-26-2008, 04:41 AM
Thanks for the tip friend. I actually got all the soldering done with the electronics tonight. I'll be using My Optic 6 to fly her. I'm going to try to kick off the build tomorrow. I need to order that landing gear still though. I may have to pick your brain here and there if you don't mind? This is my first ARF build. Wish me luck.

Mike

Fly Time
03-26-2008, 06:22 AM
Glad to help any way I can. Two tips to start: 1) If you have never installed CA hinges, go back and read about my mistakes 2) you will be lucky to not get CA smudges on the black covering. Acetone from the hardware store takes the smudges right off (thanks to Paul for that!).

Angler-Hi
03-26-2008, 01:28 PM
Glad to help any way I can. Two tips to start: 1) If you have never installed CA hinges, go back and read about my mistakes 2) you will be lucky to not get CA smudges on the black covering. Acetone from the hardware store takes the smudges right off (thanks to Paul for that!).

Yeah I remember reading about that:p. I'll definitely be taking that into consideration when building her. I do have a question though. How did you glue or epoxy the tailfin? It was quite a tight fit just sliding it in to fit, let alone having to apply epoxy to it before hand. Did it ever start building up on the outside of it along the sides as you were sliding it in place after you applied glue/epoxy?

Fly Time
03-26-2008, 04:23 PM
I don't recall having any problems installing the tail. Wet epoxy acts as a sort of lubricant, but you don't need too much. It's pretty easy to wipe any excess into a fillet using a cloth.

Angler-Hi
03-26-2008, 07:18 PM
Hey Fly Time, thanks for that response. I have ran into a little problem with the tail-wheel assembly. It says to install the wire landing gear in the pre-drilled holes in the rudder. I don't see any pre-drilled holes in the rudder other than for the control horn. Any ideas friend?

Fly Time
03-26-2008, 07:31 PM
I may have had that same problem. I think the hole is there but covered over. Eyeball about where it should be and try to poke through the covering with a sharp point. If you can't find it, you will have to drill one with a very small drill bit. Use a needle or something to create a pilot hole through the balsa. You don't want the drill bit to wander off center when drilling through something as thin as that.

Angler-Hi
03-26-2008, 10:54 PM
I may have had that same problem. I think the hole is there but covered over. Eyeball about where it should be and try to poke through the covering with a sharp point. If you can't find it, you will have to drill one with a very small drill bit. Use a needle or something to create a pilot hole through the balsa. You don't want the drill bit to wander off center when drilling through something as thin as that.

I was thinking the same thing: maybe it was covered over. I'll look for it and see what I can find. Thanks again friend.

Well, I didn't get CA smudges but I did pull the rudder out a little bit to apply the CA to the hinges, then it dried before I could get it all the way back in. No big deal though. I can always paint the hinges so it's not so noticeable. I figure the gap between the rudder and stabilzer is about 1/4".

Fly Time
03-26-2008, 10:59 PM
I was thinking the same thing: maybe it was covered over. I'll look for it and see what I can find. Thanks again friend.

Well, I didn't get CA smudges but I did pull the rudder out a little bit to apply the CA to the hinges, then it dried before I could get it all the way back in. No big deal though. I can always paint the hinges so it's not so noticeable. I figure the gap between the rudder and stabilzer is about 1/4".
CA bonds so quickly through those hinges! I bought some of these (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXK295&P=0) to make it easier to apply. Your LHS probably has them too.

Madman
03-26-2008, 11:08 PM
... but I did pull the rudder out a little bit to apply the CA to the hinges, then it dried before I could get it all the way back in. No big deal though. I can always paint the hinges so it's not so noticeable. I figure the gap between the rudder and stabilzer is about 1/4".Just my uninvited $0.02 worth ... If it were me, in your situation, I'd cut the hinges flush with the vertical stabilizer and the rudder, and reslot at a different position, and try again to close that gap. 1/4-inch is a huge gap, and even if you tape it (which might work as another alternative) it's not going to look like you'd like it to look. Worst case, that gap is going to really adversely impact your controllability significantly.
Sure looking forward to some flight videos ... I'm still on the edge insofar as buying this bird; but she's a beaut!

Fly Time
03-26-2008, 11:13 PM
Just my uninvited $0.02 worth ... If it were me, in your situation, I'd cut the hinges flush with the vertical stabilizer and the rudder, and reslot at a different position, and try again to close that gap. 1/4-inch is a huge gap, and even if you tape it (which might work as another alternative) it's not going to look like you'd like it to look. Worst case, that gap is going to really adversely impact your controllability significantly.
Sure looking forward to some flight videos ... I'm still on the edge insofar as buying this bird; but she's a beaut!
That is exactly what I ended up doing, though my gap was more than 1/4".

Angler-Hi
03-26-2008, 11:16 PM
Ok, I got the tail-wheel in. You were right, the hole was covered over. Now, did you use the control horns that came with the kit? These control horns have 2 big prongs that fit down inside these tiny pre-drilled holes. I don't have any other spare control horns that I can use to just screw them in. I take it that the ones in the kit need to be glued and set. Any advice you have would be great friend. Thanks Fly Time!

Mike

Fly Time
03-26-2008, 11:23 PM
Ok, I got the tail-wheel in. You were right, the hole was covered over. Now, did you use the control horns that came with the kit? These control horns have 2 big prongs that fit down inside these tiny pre-drilled holes. I don't have any other spare control horns that I can use to just screw them in. I take it that the ones in the kit need to be glued and set. Any advice you have would be great friend. Thanks Fly Time!

Mike
Test fit the control horns by pushing them into the holes before you glue. I ended up reaming out the holes a little so the base of the horn would lay flat on the control surface. That way the glue will have more surface area to hold it in place.

Angler-Hi
03-26-2008, 11:30 PM
Fly Time, you're my guru! I was thinking about doing the same thing. You definitely cannot build this bird without a drill. I even had to drill a hair-wider hole in the tail-wheel so it would turn freely. Thanks a million friend.

Angler-Hi
03-27-2008, 04:37 PM
Hey Fly Time, where did you run the Rx/antenna wire? I didn't see a tube or anything to run it nor a pre-drilled hole. Do I have to make a hole myself, and if so, where do you recommend? Thanks friend.

Mike

Fly Time
03-27-2008, 04:43 PM
At first I tried to keep it all inside the fuselage as there is so much space in there, but I was getting some glitching when I range tested it so never flew it that way. For the first few flights I ran it out the battery hatch and taped it to the side of the fuselage at the tail. Now I run it out the cockpit and over the tip of the tail, secured by a little tape on the tail and on the pilot seat backrest.

Angler-Hi
03-27-2008, 04:51 PM
At first I tried to keep it all inside the fuselage as there is so much space in there, but I was getting some glitching when I range tested it so never flew it that way. For the first few flights I ran it out the battery hatch and taped it to the side of the fuselage at the tail. Now I run it out the cockpit and over the tip of the tail, secured by a little tape on the tail and on the pilot seat backrest.

SWEET! Thanks a bunch Fly-Time!! I don't know how I would have gotten this far without your help friend. Here's a few pics of what I've got done so far. I still have to install the stab and place the electronics...speaking of which, would you happen to have any pics of where you put all the electronics?

Fly Time
03-27-2008, 05:57 PM
SWEET! Thanks a bunch Fly-Time!! I don't know how I would have gotten this far without your help friend. Here's a few pics of what I've got done so far. I still have to install the stab and place the electronics...speaking of which, would you happen to have any pics of where you put all the electronics?
What is the weight of your servos? I used 17 gram servos and ended up a little tail heavy, so my electronics went as far forward as I could get them. I ususually wait until I get everything else in, including the battery, before I finalize the location of ESC and Rx. With the ESC you need to place it so that the battery lead is easily accessible from the hatch, but otherwise you can move it forward or back to get the right CG. You should keep the Rx back a ways from the ESC to avoid interference. A few inches is probably enough separation.

Fly Time
03-27-2008, 06:01 PM
I can't remember precisely where I located the ESC, but I think it is on the bottom of the fuselage under the battery.

Angler-Hi
03-27-2008, 11:51 PM
Thanks Fly Time. I'm going to be placing the ESC behind the motor, right below the magnets for the battery bay cover. I'm placing the Rx on the bottom of the battery tray where I made a slight mod to the the bay frame using a piece of popsicle stick. The battery weighs enough to where that should be the contributing factor as far finding the correct CG.

By the way, I have no idea what mm converts to as far as cm or inches. What is 65mm? Thanks.

Mike

Fly Time
03-28-2008, 12:05 AM
Hey Mike. Good thing I'm at my computer all day ;) Just kidding. I actually enjoy helping you out!

Do you have the Google toolbar installed? If so, Google has a really great feature built into its search window. Just type in "65mm in inches", hit enter and it will give you the answer in your browser window. It works for all measurement conversions: farenheit to celcius, quarts to pints, miles to kilometers, etc. Very cool!

BTW, 65mm = 6.5cm = 2.559 inches

Angler-Hi
03-28-2008, 01:30 AM
AWESOME!! Fly Time, dude, you're the friggin man!! Thanks friend!

Angler-Hi
03-28-2008, 03:41 AM
Well, here's the latest on my build: All electronics are installed, motor mounted, ESC programmed. I actually fabricated a "seat" for the Rx so I could install it under the battery bay attached to the frame. I used to popsicle sticks cut to 3" in length then glued langth wise. I then put double-sided foam tape on there and then a strip of velcro. I put a strip of velcro on the bottom of the Rx in the same manner. The "seat" weighs next to nothing and worked perfectly! All that is left to do is install the landing gear into the wings...I ran into a slight problem with this though. One of the hex screws that hold the collar in place on the wheel wire has stripped. I think this was caused by semi-forcing the collar onto the wire. The wire has a small piece of metal shaving, making it a problem sliding the collar on freely. I'll have to get another collar and screw or find a way to fabricate a quick fix.

Angler-Hi
03-28-2008, 03:46 AM
Here's some more pics guys. For some reason, it wouldn't post all of them on one post.

BTW, I went out of my way to avoid CA smudges on the tail assembly, and ended up pulling the rudder out a little far from the stab and the damn CA dried before I could the hinges back all the way in. It looks like this is going to be a job for a sharpie as to not make the hinges too noticeable.

max2112
03-28-2008, 03:56 AM
That's a lot of progress, Mike. She's looking really good.
How did the balancing turn out?

Angler-Hi
03-28-2008, 04:02 AM
That's a lot of progress, Mike. She's looking really good.
How did the balancing turn out?

I still need to put the landing gear on. I didn't get a chance to run out and pick up some wire ties, so for right now, I'm using 2 bread ties. I ran into a problem with the landing gear. One of the hex screws is stripped. It's what holds the wheel collar on so the wheel doesn't come off. I'm so pissed man! I've been working on this thing since 0700 this morning, and just when it looks like I'll have her done by tonight...THIS! Oh well, I'll just pick up on her tomorrow.

Angler-Hi
03-28-2008, 04:07 AM
Hey Fly Time, how did you check the CG? Did you check for it with the plane upside down or right side up? I know most people check the CG on a warbird with the plane upside down. I just figured it was because it was a low wing plane. Also, did you already have the landing gear installed BEFORE you checked the CG? Thanks friend.

Fly Time
03-28-2008, 04:29 AM
Hey Fly Time, how did you check the CG? Did you check for it with the plane upside down or right side up? I know most people check the CG on a warbird with the plane upside down. I just figured it was because it was a low wing plane. Also, did you already have the landing gear installed BEFORE you checked the CG? Thanks friend.
Most low wing planes you balance upside down and vice versa for high wing. Make sure everything is installed including the battery and prop and LG before you balance it. That really should be just about the last thing you do.

One mod that I would really recommend making is fixing up the battery compartment so that the battery does not slide forward or back. There are pictures of my solution for that a couple pages back, but grasshopper also made a good suggestion to use non-skid mesh designed for the bottom of kitchen drawers. Whatever you decide on, don't overtighten the velcro strap because you will break the wood battery tray.

Angler-Hi
03-28-2008, 04:42 AM
Thanks Fly Time! I'm going to be installing double sided foam tape with a strip of velcro. I'll be doing the same on the battery to hold it in place. I'll also be using another strip of velcro to wrap around the battery and tray. I know what you mean about breaking the wood. She seems a little fragile in that bay. Thanks for all your help man!!

Madman
03-28-2008, 07:34 AM
BTW, I went out of my way to avoid CA smudges on the tail assembly, and ended up pulling the rudder out a little far from the stab and the damn CA dried before I could the hinges back all the way in. It looks like this is going to be a job for a sharpie as to not make the hinges too noticeable.Lookin' good, Mike, except for those control surface gaps ... at great risk of being repetitive, I STILL recommend you redo those hinges, as noted in http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=383087&postcount=75
Sorry if it seems like I'm nagging ... but, do yourself a favor ... etc, etc, etc.

Saucerguy2
03-28-2008, 10:23 AM
Madman, I wonder just how critical it's going to be on a small rc plane like this, I've had many planes with gaps in the control surfaces because I max out my throws to extreems, so it's going to cause that to have to happen since I need the clearance. Perhaps you could make a couple of identacle chuck gliders, one with gaps in the hinges, the other without, and see if you notice the difference. Just make them adjustable so when you chuck it, it will veer/fly a specific direction. It would be interesting to see the results.

Alot of people try to apply full scale thinking into these small rc planes and many times it doesn't correlate. I was flying last year with a relative that has his pilots license, he kept insisting that I should not be flying without a cowl and that without it, I was seriously hampering performance but to be honest, it made little to no difference due to the scale and power to weight ratio, of which, you gotta stay more on top of with a full scale airplane since they are largely underpowered in comparison which means aerodynamics not being optimum will dramatically affect performance.

Angler-Hi
03-28-2008, 02:45 PM
Thanks Madman. I wanted to fix the gap in the rudder. That is the only gap there is in the control surfaces. What happened was when I pulled the rudder out a bit to glue the hinges, the damn CA dried before I could set it back in place. Now, she won't budge and I have no idea on how to fix her!! Max2112 suggested a debonder, but I don't know if that would eat through the hinges. Any ideas on how to fix this? Also, I have no other spare hinges, so cutting them isn't going to help me.

Angler-Hi
03-28-2008, 03:52 PM
Well, I finally got the rudder gap fixed. I had to use my hobby knife and cut into the slit, along the hinges, to cut the hinge away from the inside of the slit. I was able to pull out the rudder completely and reset it! WAHOO!!

Angler-Hi
03-28-2008, 04:45 PM
Hey Fly Time, I remember you saying you flew her with the original landing gear before you bought the after market pair. Did you glue the landing gear into the wing, and if so, what type of glue did you use and how did you apply it? Also, if you DID glue it in, how did you remove it to use the other landing gear? Thanks.

Angler-Hi
03-28-2008, 07:21 PM
Hey, one other question for you friend. How did you secure the wing struts on the fuselage? I see the reinforced pieces of balsa where it needs to be screwed from the inside of the fuselage, but my drill is too large to fit and reach. I need something to get into that tight space so I can pre-drill the holes. Should I try to just put the screws through manually with a small screwdriver? Thanks Fly Time!

Mike

Fly Time
03-28-2008, 07:58 PM
Hey Fly Time, I remember you saying you flew her with the original landing gear before you bought the after market pair. Did you glue the landing gear into the wing, and if so, what type of glue did you use and how did you apply it? Also, if you DID glue it in, how did you remove it to use the other landing gear? Thanks.
I never glued the original gear because I had read about the Green Models gear being a good upgrade and wanted to keep my options open. Mine fit snugly so no glue was necessary. You could use CA if you want a medium hold. Epoxy is much stronger but could make it difficult to swap out later without possibly doing damage to the wing.

Fly Time
03-28-2008, 08:03 PM
Hey, one other question for you friend. How did you secure the wing struts on the fuselage? I see the reinforced pieces of balsa where it needs to be screwed from the inside of the fuselage, but my drill is too large to fit and reach. I need something to get into that tight space so I can pre-drill the holes. Should I try to just put the screws through manually with a small screwdriver? Thanks Fly Time!

Mike
The last page of the instructions was missing from my manual, so if there was anything in there about installing the wing struts I never got to see it. I screwed them into the fuselage from the outside and used epoxy to afix them to the wings. If I had it to do over again, I would use no glue at all because it really is a pain removing the wing with the struts glued on. I would definately screw them in to the fuselage from the outside though. Much easier to get them on and off that way.

Madman
03-28-2008, 08:28 PM
Thanks Madman. I wanted to fix the gap in the rudder. That is the only gap there is in the control surfaces. What happened was when I pulled the rudder out a bit to glue the hinges, the damn CA dried before I could set it back in place. Now, she won't budge and I have no idea on how to fix her!! Max2112 suggested a debonder, but I don't know if that would eat through the hinges. Any ideas on how to fix this? Also, I have no other spare hinges, so cutting them isn't going to help me.Mike ... I do not recommend using a debonder, since controlling its path might be uncertain, and you could debond some structural joints that you might not want debonded. If it were me, I would simply cut the current hinges flush with the vertical stabilizer and with the rudder, and use an X-Acto Knife (Or, slotter if you have one) to carefully put new slots into the leading edge of the rudder and trailing edge of the vertical stabilizer. Hinges are cheap, but if your LHS isn't handy or for some reason can't provide them, send me a PM with your snail-mail address, and I'll mail you some in an envelope.

In response to SaucerGuy, you bet those slots are important on a model. LISTEN to a model without the seals, and one with the seals and you will hear a distinct sound that translates into FLUTTER. Eventually, flutter leads to mechanical failure, not unlike a coat-hangar that's been bent back and forth a lot of times until it breaks. Most things that apply to real aircraft apply to models, and especially SCALE models (like this one), and the only variable between the two is WHEN the failure occurs. Usually a model takes longer to fail (unless it's a really high-speed little guy, and then all bets are off). End of lecture.(Sorry :sad:) I recommend you seal all control surface gaps on all models. Here's one that really has given me good service, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg: http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=6104 ... but as others in this thread have already said, any sticky tape will do. It's just that Blenderm contours itself to the surfaces it's attaching to, and really makes for a good looking joint, with the tape almost invisible, but TOUGH after a lot of flexing.
Good winds,
Bob
aka

Fly Time
03-28-2008, 09:05 PM
I recommend you seal all control surface gaps on all models. Here's one that really has given me good service, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg: http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=6104 ... but as others in this thread have already said, any sticky tape will do. It's just that Blenderm contours itself to the surfaces it's attaching to, and really makes for a good looking joint, with the tape almost invisible, but TOUGH after a lot of flexing.
Good winds,
Bob
aka
Do you apply this tape to bottom and top surface, or just one or the other? I have never used it but can see how it could really cut down on flutter.

I have an E-Flite Mini Pulse XT that I am waiting to maiden. I saw in-flight video from a MPXT with the camera pointing toward the tail, and the elevator flutter in a dive was really obvious. Once it starts, the whole stabilizer starts shaking at a very high frequency. It's got to be really hard on the servos and airframe.

Madman
03-28-2008, 10:29 PM
Do you apply this tape to bottom and top surface, or just one or the other? I have never used it but can see how it could really cut down on flutter.
I have an E-Flite Mini Pulse XT that I am waiting to maiden. I saw in-flight video from a MPXT with the camera pointing toward the tail, and the elevator flutter in a dive was really obvious. Once it starts, the whole stabilizer starts shaking at a very high frequency. It's got to be really hard on the servos and airframe.I've heard pundits who proclaim that the "buzz" from fluttering controls is the electric pilot's way to get some sound that comes naturally to the guys flying fossil fuels.;-)

If you are going to spend the majority of your time with the airplane right side up, then put the tape on the bottom of the ailerons and elevators. If upside down, then put it on the top/ Why? Simply because the air pressure in the gap will be trying to peel it away. I've never seen that happen, though, so I wouldn't worry. I put mine on the bottom just so that when the bird is on the ground, you have no view of the tape on the horizontal surfaces. Purely cosmetics.

Rudder? Well, do you like to do your Knife-edges to the right or to the left?:<:

Same answer ... it probably doesn't matter. But definitely one side only, or you can cause your controls to bind a little if taped from both sides.

Angler-Hi
03-28-2008, 10:43 PM
Thanks guys! Actually, I drilled the holes for the struts on the outside of the fuselage and screwed them to the struts from the inside. A little bit of a pain, but it worked. I'm thinking about doing it the way you did, because with the screws coming from the inside, they end up coming right through the struts and make it look like crap.

Also, I fixed the gap situation already. I just used my hobby knife to cut along the inside of the slits, separating the hinges from the wood. She popped right out and then I just reset her and CAed it. Good as new. All that's left for me to do is reverse ch2 on my Tx and adjust the throws! I already checked the CG and she is right on the money, with the battery as far forward as I could get her. Here's a few pics:

Madman
03-28-2008, 11:23 PM
Here's a few pics:She's gorgeous, Mike. I just finished my E-flite Pitts 12 15e (except for getting the CG where I want it), but you can see that they put in the kit a lightweight plastic dummy radial engine just for scale looks. Anything like that available for The Gee Bee Senior Sportster?

Fly Time
03-28-2008, 11:31 PM
She's gorgeous, Mike. I just finished my E-flite Pitts 12 15e (except for getting the CG where I want it), but you can see that they put in the kit a lightweight plastic dummy radial engine just for scale looks. Anything like that available for The Gee Bee Senior Sportster?
I agree MM, the Gee Bee is looking good! I had a faux radial engine laying around from another crashed plane that I put in mine. Makes a big difference in the look of the plane if you can find one. The Green Models Gee Bee Y comes with one, so maybe you can get one from them if you decide to buy their landing gear.

Angler-Hi
03-28-2008, 11:41 PM
Thanks guys! Hey Madman, you gotta let me know how she flys man! I've been looking at that plane and wanna try may hands at a good bipe!

Madman
03-28-2008, 11:45 PM
I agree MM, the Gee Bee is looking good! I had a faux radial engine laying around from another crashed plane that I put in mine. Makes a big difference in the look of the plane if you can find one. The Green Models Gee Bee Y comes with one, so maybe you can get one from them if you decide to buy their landing gear.If this is the one you mean, it looks like it comes with the replacement cowl. http://www.maxfordusa.com/gm-gb-cowl-b.aspx
Maybe an e-mail to their sales dept would tell us if the faux engine comes separately for insertion into our own cowl? I'd be amazed if the Green cowl would fit the HL bird.

Madman
03-28-2008, 11:52 PM
Thanks guys! Hey Madman, you gotta let me know how she flys man! I've been looking at that plane and wanna try may hands at a good bipe!By the time I have to weight her down with lead in the tail to get my CG, and after reading a couple of really critical threads on watt-flyer and RC Groups on the E-flite Pitts 12, I have a few regrets, and had I know about THIS bird when I bought the E-flite, I think now I would have gone instead to this Israeli model, which is getting rave reviews: http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=7296. I'm a bipe freak, though, and while i don't expect to get a lot of 3D out of the Pitts, it'll hold me over until Precision Aerobatics (my favorite producer of models) comes out with their fiber-fusion biplane in August. I have their Katana MD and their Addiction, and BOTH are superlative models.

Fly Time
03-28-2008, 11:53 PM
Looks like the engine and cowl are one piece, so that probably won't work. I'm sure there is one out there somewhere. There's a lot of room in there so a perfect fit isn't required.

Angler-Hi
03-30-2008, 10:20 PM
Hey Fly Time, did you ever have any issues getting the correct CG? I have my battery as far forward as possible and she's still tail heavy...not but by maybe a hair, but the tail still falls...slowly, but nevertheless.

Also, you said you epoxied the struts to the wings, correct? If I do that, then there is no way that wing will ever come off again unless you snap the struts. I really don't mind that becuase I don't think I'll ever have a reason to take the wings off. But my main concern is the correct CG. Any advice on this matter would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks friend!

Mike

Angler-Hi
03-30-2008, 10:50 PM
Fly Time, I went back a few pages and did some more reading. I noticed you gave the motor some pitch. Did you just use the washer on the upper right hand screw on the mount? Also, what happens if she isn't given any pitch? Will she still fly well and be able to be trimmed out? I have no experience with "pitch". If I fly her without it, shouldn't she be able to be trimmed out? What are the differences in flight characteristics? Thanks.

Angler-Hi
03-30-2008, 11:27 PM
Well, I had to add four 1/4 oz bullet weights to the front to get the recommended CG. I inserted 2 weights into the 2 pieces of foam I use to keep the battery snug.

Madman
03-31-2008, 12:03 AM
Well, I had to add four 1/4 oz bullet weights to the front to get the recommended CG. I inserted 2 weights into the 2 pieces of foam I use to keep the battery snug.I really recommend having some of these in your field box just in case you want to make some CG adjustments while you are at the field ... really handy little suckers, available at most LHS':
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCKT0&P=7

Angler-Hi
03-31-2008, 12:07 AM
I really recommend having some of these in your field box just in case you want to make some CG adjustments while you are at the field ... really handy little suckers, available at most LHS':
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCKT0&P=7

NICE MM! Those look like a better choice, seeing how they're square and flat. You could put those things almost anywhere without giving yourself a friggin headache. Thanks friend.

Mike

Fly Time
03-31-2008, 01:38 AM
Hey Mike. I had to add some weight to the front as well. About 3/4 oz as I recall, on the inside of the cowling all the way forward.

As for the wing struts, I recommended a few posts back that you do not glue them (which is opposite of what I did). You will probably need to get the wing off from time to time, and with them glued onto the wings it is difficult getting the wing off. I think the wing is plenty strong enough without them being permanently affixed. They are really just for show.

So when is the maiden flight? I flew mine some today without the wheel pants. It took a few clicks of down trim but otherwise flew about the same.

Angler-Hi
03-31-2008, 01:46 AM
Thanks Fly Time. I'm still trying to decide how to run the Rx wire. I want to run it out through the cockpit and down along the side of the fuselage. I just don't know exactly how to AFFIX it. I really don't want to tape it. I'm not gluing it either. With my luck, I'll be stuck taping the friggin thing.

Also, I didn't give her any thrust angle. I plan on flying her the way she is, and if needs be, I'll add a washer or two later. I'll probably maiden her this weekend.

Fly Time
03-31-2008, 02:13 AM
I little piece of scotch tape holding the antenna wire down will hardly be noticable at all. You should secure it to the tail or somewhere near there. I've never heard of it happening, but I suppose it would be possible for an unsecured Rx antenna wire to tangle in the prop coming out of a tail slide or something.

Angler-Hi
03-31-2008, 02:33 AM
Yeah, I'm gonna tape it...until I can find a better way. Thanks Fly Time.

Saucerguy2
03-31-2008, 03:17 AM
I think one of the reasons you don't want the RX anteana to be rigidly secure on the plane is due to if you crash it, you want it to be able to break free, rather then break, or be pulled off of the circut board, which is why people tend to go with the tape route.

Angler-Hi
03-31-2008, 02:20 PM
I think one of the reasons you don't want the RX anteana to be rigidly secure on the plane is due to if you crash it, you want it to be able to break free, rather then break, or be pulled off of the circut board, which is why people tend to go with the tape route.

I was thinking about that as well friend. That's why I chose not to use drops of glue. I was going to glue it about every 8" or so. I'm gonna go ahead and go with tape. Thanks SaucerGuy!

Fly Time
04-03-2008, 07:39 PM
Hey Mike. I know your maiden day is approaching, so I thought I would share with you some of what I've learned recently. I've flown the Gee Bee several times over the past few days, with the wheel pants removed until my landing technique improves. Practice makes perfect, and I must say it is getting better.

I've said this before, but this plane does well on grass. It bounces back into the air too easily on pavement, whereas grass absorbs the landing bounce better and slows the plane to below flying speed quicker. It is tricky bleeding off speed on landing, so give it a nice long approach. Three point landings are the way to go, but are challenging because of the speed it keeps in ground effect. Wheel landings are easier, but you really have to resist the urge to pull the tail onto the ground because it will balloon right back up into the air if you are still above stall speed. Just let it roll out.

For your first flight, I think you will find that this plane is very trim sensitive. It doesn't self correct out of a bank, so if the ailerons are out of trim it will just keep on rolling until you steer it the other way. It does climb nicely even at 2/3 throttle, but it won't go straight up for long so make your climb out gradual. Get it up high and trim it out. Once it is trimmed properly, I think the Gee Bee is a pleasure to fly.

Also, expect it to turn left when you take off. The p-factor is most noticable when the plane is moving slowly with the throttle open, like when climbing out from takeoff. I put in about 2 degrees right thrust and still it has a tendancy to go left. Not unmanagable, but just be ready for it.

I also experienced a very scary high-speed stall today. I was trying to see how tight I could loop it and the plane pancaked into a brief flat spin as I was completing the loop. I had alititude to recover, but it spun 180 degrees before I even knew what had happened, which caused me to lose orientation briefly. I thought it was coming toward me, but then all of a sudden it was flying away from me toward the tops of some large trees ::o Thankfully I got it figured out just in time!

This is not something that should concern you unless you really crank on the elevator. Come to think of it, I may want to decrease the throw a little because I don't think I need nearly as much elevator authority as I have now.

Good luck on your maiden Mike!

Angler-Hi
04-03-2008, 11:07 PM
Thanks a million Fly Time!! I already programmed my radio with dual rates for the ailerons at 75%, just in case she is a little too responsive for me. The manual doesn't say anything about dual rates, so I just put it in to have something to fall back on in case she's too much for me.

I have not added any thrust angles to her. I want to fly her the way she is before I make any adjustmets like that. I WILL expect her to turn left...thankyou! I fly in an area with grass too thick to take off or land from...but it will provide a very nice cushion, should I have to bring her down in a less than perfect landing. Walking through that grass is like walking on mattresses. I also have a nice little concrete strip, where I will take off from. The maiden will actually be this Saturday! I will be flying with Max2112.

Also, what exactly is the "p-factor"? I've never heard of that term. I have already glued the stock landing gear, so there will be no upgrade on that aspect...unfortunately. How do the wing struts hold up, not glued to the wing? Do they stay in for the most part, as to not pop out while in flight? Another question I've been meaning to ask you, is what would you say her stall speed is? Will she float in nice, and how does she dead stick, if at all? Sorry for all the questions friend, I just want to be ready for anything and go out for this maiden with as much intel as possible. Thankyou so much for all your help man!! I could NOT have done this without you!!

Mike

Madman
04-03-2008, 11:21 PM
Yeah, I'm gonna tape it...until I can find a better way. Thanks Fly Time.
These things are the handiest little doo-dads for tidying things up ... and would certainly work to route and secure your antenna ... (a problem I don't face, since i fly 2.4GHz exclusively, and my little stub antennas are inside the birds I own) .... but give these a try, you'll love 'em:$. They are available at most LHS'.

http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=7042

Madman
04-03-2008, 11:28 PM
Also, what exactly is the "p-factor"? Mike Try this definition, Mike. It's one even I can understand.;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-factor

Angler-Hi
04-03-2008, 11:39 PM
Thanks for that Madman. Those wire things were pretty cool. Believe it or not, she doesn't look half bad with the scotch tape. You can barely see it! It worked out better than I thought.

I appreciate the definition there too! I take it that this is a flight characteristic of this plane? I just hope trimming her out will fix the problem. Thanks again friend!

Mike

Fly Time
04-03-2008, 11:57 PM
....what exactly is the "p-factor"? I've never heard of that term.
P-factor (P is for prop) is a full-sized aircraft term. It is really a combination of two different forces: motor torque and the flow of air over the airframe generated by the prop. Motor torque you probably already understand. The motor is not only turning the prop, but it is also turning the fuselage in the opposite direction. But the airflow thing is not as intuitive. Air is moved by the prop not straight back, but in a spiral over the fuselage. Since the tail fin sticks up into this spiral of air, the prop blast hits it at an angle, pushing it to the side. That is why we have right thrust: to compensate for the prop blast hitting the right side of the tail and causing it to weathervane the airframe to the left. Combine that with motor torque and the plane will tend to turn and roll slightly to the left. These forces have more effect when the motor is WOT and the plane is moving slowly through the air. That is why I say to expect the plane to want to go left when you take off.

The right thrust I have in mine is about right to compensate for p-factor at cruising speed, but without good airspeed it's not enough and I have to compensate with a little rudder on the takeoff roll and aileron on the climb out.

If you find that the plane trims out fine for cruise, but it goes out of trim when you slow it down to land, then you know you will need to adjust the thrust angle.

How do the wing struts hold up, not glued to the wing? Do they stay in for the most part, as to not pop out while in flight?
I don't know. Do they feel secure enough with just the screws? The peg holes they slide into on the wing felt pretty secure on mine, but I ended up using glue. Wish I hadn't. You will have to let us know :)

Another question I've been meaning to ask you, is what would you say her stall speed is? Will she float in nice, and how does she dead stick, if at all?
I haven't explored slow speed manuevering too close to the ground yet, but it has a fairly slow stall speed. Dead stick is no problem. Glide ratio is excellent. In fact almost too good, which is why I say to give yourself a long landing approach. About half of my landings are with no power at all.

Fly Time
04-04-2008, 12:07 AM
Try this definition, Mike. It's one even I can understand.;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-factor

Hmmm. Maybe I don't know what p-factor is after all :rolleyes:

Well in any case, all of these forces, including the ones I described (whatever they are called), are having an effect on the aerodynamics of our little model airplanes. I have always thought of them all together as "p-factor", but maybe they are technically different.

Angler-Hi
04-04-2008, 12:13 AM
Thanks again Fly Time! One of my biggest questions was how well she dead sticks. That's usually how I like to land my planes. I was just unsure with her being a low wing plane. Not only is she my 1st ARF that I've built, but she is my 1st balsa plane that I will fly, as well as my 1st low wing plane! WOW, there's alot of "1st's" in there, huh?:D

Bub Steve
04-04-2008, 12:18 AM
Thanks again Fly Time! One of my biggest questions was how well she dead sticks. That's usually how I like to land my planes. I was just unsure with her being a low wing plane. Not only is she my 1st ARF that I've built, but she is my 1st balsa plane that I will fly, as well as my 1st low wing plane! WOW, there's alot of "1st's" in there, huh?:D
Low wingers will tip stall faster than other mono-winged planes so if you dead-stick her dive steep and keep the flare REAL LOW and she'll do fine, bub,steve

Angler-Hi
04-04-2008, 12:21 AM
Hey Steve! So you're saying to make my landing approach with more than normal altitude and dive her in with just enough up elevator to keep her from nosing...or final flare at the last minute?

Fly Time
04-04-2008, 12:28 AM
Hey Steve! So you're saying to make my landing approach with more than normal altitude and dive her in with just enough up elevator to keep her from nosing...or final flare at the last minute?
With this plane you'll come in really hot like that. I think I mentioned dead sticking in my last post. Not a problem. This plane glides really well.
EDIT: actually see post 129

Angler-Hi
04-04-2008, 12:36 AM
With this plane you'll come in really hot like that. I think I mentioned dead sticking in my last post. Not a problem. This plane glides really well.
EDIT: actually see post 129

Thanks Fly Time. I'll test her out up high and see what she can do while dead sticked. I'll take your word for it friend, as you have flown this plane.

Fly Time
04-04-2008, 06:27 AM
Hey Mike, one thing that came to mind as I was putting my Gee Bee up on its shelf in the garage tonight was the el cheapo clevises that came with this model. Have you put rubber tubing over them yet? If not, PLEASE do so before flying! Go back to post #30 to see why I think you should.

Angler-Hi
04-04-2008, 01:55 PM
Hey thanks for the reminder Fly Time. I'm currently using strips of electrical tape for now until I can get some tubing.

Madman
04-04-2008, 03:15 PM
Hey thanks for the reminder Fly Time. I'm currently using strips of electrical tape for now until I can get some tubing.While some prefer fuel line tubing, I prefer inexpensive electrical-connection heat-shrink tubing similar to that shown here. You can buy almost all colors and all sizes at most local LHS'. Try it. You'll like it.
http://www.atlantahobby.com/shopexd.asp?id=5905

Angler-Hi
04-04-2008, 05:17 PM
Thanks for the link Madman. Come to think of it, I might actually have some of that laying around. Cool idea.

Angler-Hi
04-05-2008, 04:04 PM
Fly Time, I maidened the Gee Bee today and she was AWESOME!! I never gave her any thrust angle and decided to fly her first, before adding any. She flew PERFECTLY!! I had no problems with her wanting to turn/bank left or right on take off. I got her up high and had to give her a few clicks of down elevator trim...that's it! I gained altitude and let go of the sticks...she flew straight and true. I had 2 good flights and 2 good landings. I had no problem landing and never bounced her. I brought her in with a little bit of power, then at about 3 ft. off the ground, I killed the throttle and dead-sticked her right in! I took off and landed from a concrete landing strip. I would imagine that she does better on a hard surface as opposed to grass.

Max2112 was with me and kind of calmed me down when I got overly nervous. His coaching really helped me today. I flew her with 75% dual rates on the ailerons right off the bat. I will increase this as I get more comfortable with her.

Fly Time, I want to thank you very much for all your help!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would still be struggling as this was my first ARF/balsa build. Thankyou so much for all your support friend!!

Mike

Madman
04-05-2008, 04:58 PM
Fly Time, I maidened the Gee Bee today and she was AWESOME!! I never gave her any thrust angle and decided to fly her first, before adding any. She flew PERFECTLY!! I had no problems with her wanting to turn/bank left or right on take off. I got her up high and had to give her a few clicks of down elevator trim...that's it! I gained altitude and let go of the sticks...she flew straight and true. I had 2 good flights and 2 good landings. I had no problem landing and never bounced her. I brought her in with a little bit of power, then at about 3 ft. off the ground, I killed the throttle and dead-sticked her right in! I took off and landed from a concrete landing strip. I would imagine that she does better on a hard surface as opposed to grass.

Max2112 was with me and kind of calmed me down when I got overly nervous. His coaching really helped me today. I flew her with 75% dual rates on the ailerons right off the bat. I will increase this as I get more comfortable with her.

Fly Time, I want to thank you very much for all your help!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would still be struggling as this was my first ARF/balsa build. Thankyou so much for all your support friend!!

MikeCONGRATULATIONS, Mike. Keep us posted now, as you become really acquainted with her.
Good winds,
Bob
aka

Angler-Hi
04-05-2008, 05:02 PM
CONGRATULATIONS, Mike. Keep us posted now, as you become really acquainted with her.
Good winds,
Bob
aka

Thanks Bob! Like I said before, i couldn't have done this without your guys' help! Thanks for all the tips and links! Most of all, thanks for taking me under your wings.

I plan on a few more flights before the day's over. I'll have a video to post and more feedback. Thanks again friend!

Mike

max2112
04-05-2008, 08:45 PM
...Max2112 was with me and kind of calmed me down when I got overly nervous. His coaching really helped me today. I flew her with 75% dual rates on the ailerons right off the bat. I will increase this as I get more comfortable with her.

Mike did a really great job today taking this plane up for her maiden flight. I have followed his build and this thread from the start. Let me tell you guys,

He aced it!!

After the last video I took Mike, I didn't even want to offer to film another fuzzy dot fiasco.
CONGRATS on the plane, She's a beauty.

John

Angler-Hi
04-05-2008, 08:54 PM
That was my fault John. My camera isn't the greatest in the world. Let's just hope she does better on the belly of my Nexstar, as she probably won't be used for anything else:D.

Fly Time
04-06-2008, 04:49 AM
Hey Mike, way to go! I've been away from the computer and my airplanes today but thought of you several times and did my best to send you good thoughts. I'm so glad to hear it went well! And by the description of your landings, I think you should be giving ME some flying advice :rolleyes:

Angler-Hi
04-06-2008, 04:57 PM
Nah, I just dead sticked my landings and she floated right in, nice and smooth. Thanks for all the help Fly Time!! I'm actually getting ready to take her out again today. So far, I have 3 really good flights with her. I've been flying her with 75% dual rates on the ailerons. I'm going to be switching them off today and see how she does without them. My wife has agreed to video the flight for me. I'll be back in a few friend...with a video:D.

Angler-Hi
04-07-2008, 02:32 AM
Hey guys, here's a video my wife took today. WMM cheated me out of a whole 2 minutes of my video. I'll upload the regular video in a few and post it so you can get it all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBeOXbSfEn4

Mike

Angler-Hi
04-07-2008, 02:59 AM
Ok guys, here's the WHOLE thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RYoZHRlTG4

Fly Time
04-07-2008, 03:46 AM
So cool! Wish I had flying weather like that. And such a big space to fly. Too many trees around here! :rolleyes:

E-Challenged
04-15-2008, 10:09 PM
Arggghhh, that irrelevant music! Nice flying though.

Angler-Hi
04-16-2008, 12:18 AM
Arggghhh, that irrelevant music! Nice flying though.

Thanks, but I happen to like that song friend.

Fly Time
04-16-2008, 12:52 AM
The demise of the original Gee Bee Model Y came after the owner decided it needed a little more horsepower. In fact he nearly doubled the output of the motor, going from 250 HP to 450. The plane then broke up during a race. :( Too much airspeed for the airframe.

In light of that, maybe this isn't such a well conceived plan, but I think my plane needs more power :D

Last night I started modifying the motor mount to accept this motor (http://64.33.154.92/blackdogrc/brushlessA22series.jsp#A22-20L). No going back now! :cool:

Angler-Hi
04-16-2008, 01:03 AM
The demise of the original Gee Bee Model Y came after the owner decided it needed a little more horsepower. In fact he nearly doubled the output of the motor, going from 250 HP to 450. The plane then broke up during a race. :( Too much airspeed for the airframe.

In light of that, maybe this isn't such a well conceived plan, but I think my plane needs more power :D

Last night I started modifying the motor mount to accept this motor (http://64.33.154.92/blackdogrc/brushlessA22series.jsp#A22-20L). No going back now! :cool:

Wow!! Were you talking about that 4" motor that produces 40.5 oz of thrust? You DEFINITELY have to let me know how that works out for you Fly Time!

She seems to have plenty of power for me. I fly her every chance I get!!:D Good luck with the mod friend.

Mike

Fly Time
04-23-2008, 07:03 AM
My new KA22-20L 1050kv outrunner is installed and ready to fly. I bench tested it tonight with a couple of different props. The stock motor was turning a TP 10x5 very nicely, but this new motor really pulls hard with an APC 11x5.5, so that's what I will try to start. Not only does it pull hard, but that extra inch of diameter makes it sounds really good too - much louder than the stock motor! :cool:

With a fully charged 3S 2500 mAh lipo, it pulls about 26 amps WOT. I've got a 32 amp ESC installed, but 26 amps is about the max for the motor. That's okay, because I don't think I'll need any more than half throttle most of the time.

Hope to fly it this weekend, or sooner.

pd1
04-23-2008, 12:18 PM
Hi Doug, I used a 10x7 APC on that motor and an E-flite 10x8, really makes the plane get up and go.
It's right near it's limit though.

Check the security of the circlip on the motor shaft at the rear of the motor.
That's all that hold the front of the motor on.
That's the weakest link.

Paul

Angler-Hi
04-23-2008, 02:05 PM
Can't wait to get the flight report Fly Time!!! Good luck man.

Mike

Capt Easy
04-23-2008, 08:59 PM
Hello Doug,
I'm very new to RC and learning to fly HBZ Super Cub. To mention I'm really hooked would be an understatement.

I've long admired the Golden Age Racers and have a few questions on the Gee Bee Senior Sportster.

1.) I'm curious how you would rate the kit overall now that it must be finished.

2.) What are the flight charactoristics ? It looks like a good model....

3.) Based on your experience would you reccomend any changes or modifications?

Thanks very much and I hope you're still enjoying it.
Best,
ce

Angler-Hi
04-23-2008, 09:36 PM
Welcome to Wattflyer Capt Easy! Of course, I am not Doug, but I too have the same Gee Bee kit as Fly Time and he's been a major factor to my success with her. She has GREAT flight characteristics. She will lift off on her own without elevator, given a long enough stretch. The first thing I did as far as modifying her, was pasting the inside of the wheel pants with 5 minute epoxy (kind that dries hard like glass) as they can crack along the seams with a rough landing. The recommended motor does her justice. She has plenty of power! She also dead sticks VERY well! Landings are just too easy, as she will glide right in. If she falls short, you just throttle up for a second or two, if that, and she glides in for the perfect landing. There is nothing that I find distasteful about this kit. The quality is something to marvel over. I hope this gives you somewhat of an idea. Good luck with your HZ Super Cub, as she is a great first plane. Mine hangs quietly in the closet with the rest of my birds. I hope to see you around. Good luck friend.

Mike

Fly Time
04-24-2008, 02:29 AM
Hey Mike, that's funny! I seem to recall replying to someone in another thread recently: "Of course I am not Mike..." :D

And yes sir Captain, the Gee Bee Sr. Sportster is a fantastic airplane! Mike has had better luck (or perhaps skill) with landing than I, but I eventually figured it out. I think it didn't help that I had my elevator throws set too high, so I was overcontrolling just a little on the flare. I've got her dialed in now!

The one mod that I have been really happy with is changing the landing gear. Green Models makes a slightly smaller Gee Bee Model Y that comes with really nicely engineered landing gear. The gear on the HL model is a little lacking, but it does okay if you land her smoothly. Go back a few pages for more on that.

Angler-Hi
04-24-2008, 03:25 AM
"Hey Mike, that's funny! I seem to recall replying to someone in another thread recently: "Of course I am not Mike..." :D [quote]

LOL! I wouldn't necessarily say "skill" Fly Time:p. I had my dual rates set on 75% for the ailerons. I'm now flying her at 85%. I'm gradually going higher until I eventually get comfortable flying her on high rate. I can probably do it just fine, but...baby steps for me:D.

I found some other Gee Bee kits that I'm thinking of picking up. I think I want to go with that Green models landing gear that you did. Here's the link:

http://www.eastrc.org/shop.cgi/page=estoregby.htm/SID=1207963163.18937

I'm thinking of picking up the red/white one. She's gorgeous!

Mike

Fly Time
04-28-2008, 06:07 AM
I re-maidened the Gee Bee today. The new motor was spinning an APC 11x5.5. It actually wasn't a huge increase in performance, but no one will ever accuse this plane of being underpowered :tc:

Top speed wasn't much faster,maybe 5 mph, but climbing performance was much improved. And when the prop loads up, the motor has a real nice buzz to it.

I was going to experiment with some different props, but there were soccer games scheduled on my flying field not long after I started flying, so I only got through one battery.

I've got some video that I'll post soon.

Angler-Hi
04-28-2008, 01:02 PM
Sweet! Can't wait to see the video man. Also, have you seen the new Gee Bee from Hobby Lobby?

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/geebee-r3.htm

Capt Easy
04-28-2008, 02:41 PM
Doug,
What motor did you upgrade from - the 450 to a 480....? I'm trying to build a file on as much info as I can prior ro building mine.
Delivery of my Gee Bee is expected this week but won't perform any assembly for a couple months or more. (I ordered the "Entire Outfit" as offered from HL including the 450 outrunner and asscociated accessories.)
Thanks,
Dick

Angler-Hi
04-28-2008, 03:06 PM
Doug,
What motor did you upgrade from - the 450 to a 480....? I'm trying to build a file on as much info as I can prior ro building mine.
Delivery of my Gee Bee is expected this week but won't perform any assembly for a couple months or more. (I ordered the "Entire Outfit" as offered from HL including the 450 outrunner and asscociated accessories.)
Thanks,
Dick

Hey Dick. Again, of course I'm not Doug, but the recommended motor for the Gee Bee is an Atlas 2317/16 which is equivalent to a 480, as it is in the 480/500 class. There shouldn't be a 450 recommended motor for the Gee Bee. She wouldn't do too well with a 450 in my opinion. The MINIMUM I would go with would be a 480 sized motor. A 450 wouldn't do the Gee Bee justice, as I believe she would be slightly underpowered. Good luck friend.

Mike

Fly Time
04-28-2008, 04:12 PM
I was using the recommended Atlas to start. IMO, it is somewhere between a 450 and 480. My new motor is probably 25% stronger than the Atlas and is definately as strong or maybe better than a 480. It spins just a little faster and can handle more amps. It is also a bit heavier, but that's no problem because I had an ounce of weight in the nose already.

Fly Time
04-28-2008, 04:18 PM
Here's some video of my re-maiden flight. Yesterday I said I thought it was maybe 5 mph faster. After watching the video, it might be a little better than that. :)

I kept the wheel pants off for this flight, which was probably a good thing. My landing skill seems to have regressed. :rolleyes: I was all thumbs yesterday :o

http://www.vimeo.com/949794

Angler-Hi
04-28-2008, 05:51 PM
Sweet video Fly Time!! I usually bring her in at about 6-7 ft off the ground and kill the throttle, letting her deadstick right in. Nice landing though friend! If you can land her on a hard surface like that, instead of on the grass, I bet you would have a much smoother landing. So, what the heck are you talking about when you say your landing skills have regressed?:D Any better than that and it's damn near perfect;-)

Fly Time
04-28-2008, 06:17 PM
Sweet video Fly Time!! I usually bring her in at about 6-7 ft off the ground and kill the throttle, letting her deadstick right in. Nice landing though friend! If you can land her on a hard surface like that, instead of on the grass, I bet you would have a much smoother landing. So, what the heck are you talking about when you say your landing skills have regressed?:D Any better than that and it's damn near perfect;-)

Thanks Mike. I was greasing her in the last couple times I flew, but not yesterday. After I landed I realized I had the elevator dual rate set for high. I need to get in the habit of switching to low rate for landing. I also need to work on slowing the airspeed on the approach. That particular field has some large trees at the approach end, so you have to bring it in steeply or have real confidence in your depth perception and begin the descent before you turn toward final approach.

I find that landing on pavement is trickier. Maybe it's the springs on the landing gear, but it frequently balloons back up into the air if I have too much airspeed when I touch down.

Maybe I'm just a perfectionist, but I'm not happy with my landings unless they are picture perfect. I just need to fly more :D

Angler-Hi
04-28-2008, 06:57 PM
Man, don't worry about it. I like to start my descent as I'm turning into the final approach. That way, by the time I have her lined up she's already at the perfect altitude to cut the throttle. The grass always gives mine a little spring action, but only by an inch or two. I think that's because of the uneven ground.

BTW, were you able to remove some of the added weight when you put that bigger motor in?

Fly Time
04-28-2008, 07:03 PM
BTW, were you able to remove some of the added weight when you put that bigger motor in?
I had a full ounce of lead in the nose. Now I have 3/4 oz and the same flying weight.

Angler-Hi
04-28-2008, 07:14 PM
I had a full ounce of lead in the nose. Now I have 3/4 oz and the same flying weight.

Well at least that's 1/4oz. of weight that isn't "dead weight".

Fly Time
04-28-2008, 08:11 PM
I've been giving some thought to my next mod. I would love to use this plane for aerial video, and was thinking of making a 2nd battery hatch that will allow me to mount my FlyCam facing in any direction as it sits on top of the fuselage. I think it would be really cool to have video facing backward with the little Gee Bee pilot in the foreground. Or maybe looking out to the side over the wing tip. And of course, a pilot's eye view looking forward over the cowling :cool:

The battery hatch is just forward of the CG, but the FlyCamOne2 is so light that I doubt it would make much difference.

Angler-Hi
04-28-2008, 11:06 PM
Well let me know how it turns out.

Capt Easy
04-29-2008, 05:27 AM
Tally Ho Mike,
I'll be hanging the standard Atlas 2317/16 on my Gee Bee. I think I was confusing the 450 with the an eflite Taylorcraft I was studying for a possible future addition. But for now I'm definately looking forward to that Gee Bee.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Do you know what Doug upgraded his Gee Bee from/to?
Dick

Fly Time
04-29-2008, 06:28 AM
Tally Ho Mike,
I'll be hanging the standard Atlas 2317/16 on my Gee Bee. I think I was confusing the 450 with the an eflite Taylorcraft I was studying for a possible future addition. But for now I'm definately looking forward to that Gee Bee.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Do you know what Doug upgraded his Gee Bee from/to?
Dick
Hello Dick. Of course I am not Mike, but I am Doug, so I will just answer that for you ;)

I started with the recommended Atlas motor, same as Mike uses, and found that it was quite adequate. But I had this other motor laying around that I picked up on eBay a couple months ago and figured "why not?" It's a generic Chinese outrunner (KA20-22L 1050kv) that can be bought from Hobbycity in Hong Kong or from BlackDogRC.com in the USA (among others I'm sure). I got it from eBay seller "shopping way" in H.K. (they sell good cheap lipos too). It's a little bigger than the stock motor and 25-30% stronger too. It was a little bit of a pain modifying the motor mount, but not too difficult with the right tools.

I'm really happy with the way the Gee Bee performs with the new motor. But then again, I was never really dissatisfied with the stock motor either, so I wouldn't call it an essential upgrade.

groundrushesup
10-23-2008, 06:48 AM
Well, As promised I am starting the ball rolling on my 'build log' - more a collection of my experiences building the Hobby Lobby Mini Gee Bee Model Y.

I took it out of the box (officially) today and had a look at all the parts, dry fitting the control surfaces and examining the control horns and how the servos will be mounted. Somehow through all my reading I was unaware that both rudder and elevator servos were so far aft; I don't think I've ever flown a plane with such a setup but it makes sense, as long as the CG is right, right?

Things that stand out: Bubbles in the covering, but that can be handled easily enough. Why on earth did they recess the CA hinges so far on the elevator? Assuming these are the same size hinges that are on the ailerons, it was kinda dumb to set them so far back. makes it hard.

I'm still waiting on my motor and my servos, as well as the UBEC I am planning to use for my own peace of mind. As well as a new jug of thin CA with the precision tips - I read the previous part of this thread. ;-)

Motor: KD A22-20L from Hobbycity.com (http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2106)
ESC: 40a Mystery ESC from dealextreme.com (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13029) (tested and trusted)
UBEC: 3A from HeadsupRC (http://www.headsuprc.com/servlet/the-1170/UBEC-3-Amp-/Detail)
Servos: Hitec HS55's as per recommendation (http://www.servocity.com/html/hs-55_sub-micro.html) (4)
Batteries: Zippy 2200mAh 3S rated at 30c (http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7635) (2)
Prop: Up in the air. I have a handful of APC-clone 10x5E's, I ordered some 11x5.5E's and some MAS 10x6's and 11x6's (http://masterairscrew.com/electriconlyseries.aspx) as well. For gits and shiggles I also grabbed a few 10x5 Turnigy Cherry props (http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5744) for (what might be) a more scale look.


Thanks to Fly Time, Capt. Easy and Angler-Hi for the help so far. Stay tuned, the camera is charged and standing by!

GRU

Capt Easy
10-23-2008, 08:07 AM
Josh -
I'm not clear on what you mean by recessing the hinges so far back on the elevator.

Regarding the CG, it should present no problem if you make it possible to mount the battery with the ability to shift it as far forward as possible if needed. If you should have any doubts after you mount the motor and electronics put the bat in and check the CG. I think you'll find it 'll come out on the money depending on your chosen electrics and associated weight.

Hope you're still planning on coming up to fly Friday - let me know. We can talk about the Gee Bee then as well.

Cheers

groundrushesup
10-25-2008, 08:11 AM
Well, as I have received my shipment of goodies from HobbyCity, I decided this evening was as good as any to sit down and start the build for real this time.

I did decide to go with the HXT900's instead of waiting for the Hitec HS-55's as I have it from a trusted source that there is little difference in performance or durability between the two. Another setback - Due to the wonkiness of HobbyCity's ordering system, while I was in the process of finalizing my order I lost everything that was in my 'cart' - and while going back through everything I could remember that I had selected, somehow I managed to click on the HXT 20-22L motor, and not the a22-20L motor. Frown. No big deal, as my research indicates that this Hacker clone will fly the Gee Bee with about the same performance as the Atlas or the Axi. In this context, I don't mind starting off slow. The next order will be right -- either that or I can go with the Turnigy 35-36B, which would likely remove the wings for me in mid flight. Also waiting for the UBEC from HeadsUpRC.


Progress Report #1

I managed to get the rudder and elevator control surfaces glued without too much fuss; the issue I mentioned in my previous post about the CA hinges did not pose a real problem with the CA glue and the precision attachment, but it was still kinda bizarre that it passed QC. I can imagine it would be a PITA without the precision tip.

I mounted the two aft servos using 60CM servo extensions (that I checked for continuity before installing -- screw me twice, shame on me) 60CM is just shy of 24 inches - perfect for this application and plenty of leeway for mounting the Rx. Still not sure where I want to do that.

I assembled the control rods for the two aft servos - and as I hate naked Z bends, I used a few of my newly acquired GWS control rod 'keepers' on the servo arm end. Yes, they are still Z-bends, but they look tidier and there is less slop, if you can believe it.

I center the elevator along lines I had marked earlier and mounted it with 30-minute epoxy - enough time so I could eyeball it and make sure it was even with the ol' string triangulation test. Close enough for government work, so I tidied up the fillets and let it set. I used some of the epoxy I mixed to secure the tail wheel strut as per the directions. I also put a dollop on the prong-side of the rudder control horn for added support. It really would be nice if HL included a horn with a backplate like every other even medium quality horn I've seen. Pure magnanimity on their part would be horns with screws like these (http://www.greathobbies.com/productinfo/?prod_id=DUB107). And it would be nice if the horns were milled to fit the control rods. As it is I had to take the Exacto knife to them and make the holes big enough.

After it was cured and I had taken the dogs out for a nice stroll, I mounted the rudder. The vertical stab is quirky, what with the tailwheel's aluminum structural member and the collar just below it not quite allowing enough room at the bottom to let the rudder swing freely. If I had fudged the alignment of the rudder at the top maybe 1/8" or so it would fit great, but I'd rather take the dremel to the bottom side where the fuse ends and recess the metal block than have an uneven tailplane. But that's just me. Also the rear wheel is a little rickety, I can't say I like the black rims either. I am gonna grab the Maxford gear because I see how flimsy the stock ones are without even having them out of the plastic.

I also set to work on mounting one of the wing servos using the devilishly clever string that is pre-positioned for this purpose. I also chose to use 24" servo extensions for the same reasons above. And I bought 10 of them, so why not, right?

Mounting all three of the 4 servos so far has required me to remove some of the plywood on the long sides of the pre-cut servo hole. Not too much, mind you -- we are talking maybe 1/32-1/16" here, but it can be nerve-racking cutting the ply in the wing mounts while trying not to punch a hole in the wing's top covering. The self-tapping screws that came with the servos are great.

While I was waiting for the rudder's epoxy to cure, I started thinking about where to place the ESC and the Rx. I think I am gonna put the ESC where I have it hovering in the pics; the leads I made for the ESC are plenty long enough, and the battery connector is in a good place. The ESC's connection to the Rx is at least 12" long so no worries there. I am thinking of mounting the Rx further aft somewhere between the back of the wing saddle and the cockpit, but I'm not sure. Any ideas would be appreciated.

I plan to get my errands run early tomorrow and devote the afternoon to the build. I'll check in with an update tomorrow night.

Josh AKA GRU

Fly Time
10-25-2008, 05:23 PM
Looking good Josh! I think the ESC placement look about right. Mine is directly under the battery tray. I always save that for last so I can use its placement to balance the bird. My Rx is mounted directly behind the battery hatch on the top inside of the fuselage. Plenty of distance between it and the ESC, which is the most important consideration in my opinion.

Angler-Hi
10-26-2008, 02:21 AM
Lookin good GRU! I put my ESC right there on that wall...look at your picture of where you're trying to put the ESC, and look at the wall with the two big holes in it. That's where I put mine and the Rx in the back underneath. Can't wait to hear your flight report friend!

Mike

groundrushesup
10-26-2008, 05:48 AM
Lookin good GRU! I put my ESC right there on that wall...look at your picture of where you're trying to put the ESC, and look at the wall with the two big holes in it. That's where I put mine and the Rx in the back underneath. Can't wait to hear your flight report friend!

Mike


Thanks for the directions guys, I am thinking I'll use Doug's ESC placement and Mike's Rx placement. Split the difference, as it were. ;-)

Progress Report #2

Today was another series of unforeseen circumstances, mercifully though none of them involved work, but still it cut into my build time.

I did put some thought into what I'm gonna do about the motor situation, and if I should just suck it up and buy the 22-20L from Flea Bay or elsewhere - I really like HeadsUpRc's stuff but I lack the numbers (thrust, etc) to pinpoint the performance I am looking for. I know that AUW is somewhere in the 32-36 ounce area, so a motor that puts out 40 should be alright... but I really like to balance my power systems for the type of flying I will do - and I do not plan to set fire to the sky in this plane, nor do I plan to prop hang. Enough power to recover from a mistake is about all I am looking for. ???? Enh, I'll probably just go for the 20L.

I did spend a little time getting the wing servos and control rods in place tonight - no pics because I left the camera in my truck and I was too lazy to go out and get it while I was building. :(

I had to remove a significant amount of ply from the left wing servo mount - the others went in fairly easily but this one was tight - thinking I could just ease it into place, I ended up breaking the bond where the servo plate mounts to the wing frame... no big deal, I just CA'd the snot out of it, put a screwdriver in the hole to hold it up in place and when it was set took my dremel to the excess wood. All good now.

Ordered the Maxford gear tonight - not gonna screw with the stock junk. Also ordered the Top Flite 1/7 Pratt & Whitney Replica Radial (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHY66)engine to stick in the cowl. Looking at the PDF (http://manuals.hobbico.com/top/topq7901-manual.pdf) of the plans it should fit well, and I know from research that the Pratt & Whitney Wasp was popular in the other Gee Bee models - but I couldn't scare up a dummy Wright J-5, so oh well. I think the Wasp they used developed well over 400HP, that being similar to what the J-5 put out so the scale-ness, for me, is satisfied. :p>

Gotta lay my hands on some R/C 56 or other glue for the canopy - or maybe I'll look for the E6000 stuff at Walmart.

Hopefully if all things fall my way this week I'll be working with the CG by next Saturday.

Josh

Capt Easy
10-26-2008, 06:35 AM
Sounds like you've got real good handle on it Josh. Keep us up to date. I think you'll be really pleased with this model. Especially the way it flys. speaking of which let me know if you'd like to consider heading up here and maiden her. It's a pretty descent place to fly. I like to be share your impressions.

groundrushesup
10-26-2008, 07:16 AM
Sounds like you've got real good handle on it Josh. Keep us up to date. I think you'll be really pleased with this model. Especially the way it flys. speaking of which let me know if you'd like to consider heading up here and maiden her. It's a pretty descent place to fly. I like to be share your impressions.

Dick,

I'd be honored to have you present, and it would soothe my nerves to fly from the surface you use. You can bet I'll keep you posted. ;-)

I just got around to ordering the EagleTree data logger with the temp and RPM sensors (I went to towerhobbies to order the dummy radial and $150.01 later... (they really see me coming with the "Free shipping on an order over $150!") and I also picked up the "Zap Adhesives Ric 560 (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCX70)" canopy glue and some of those snazzy GP segmented lead weights (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXK204) on the way out lol

Should be here by next Friday.

Josh

Capt Easy
10-26-2008, 04:34 PM
I'd leave the wheel pants off for the first few flights - they're pretty fragile and unless you make fairly perfect touchdowns they can be easliy cracked or broken. They do add a lot of eye appeal.

As a side note you all may be aware that Hobby Lobby has just come out with another exciting Golden Age Racer - the Wedel Williams No. 44. Check it out.....

Fly Time
10-26-2008, 05:53 PM
I'd leave the wheel pants off for the first few flights - they're pretty fragile and unless you make fairly perfect touchdowns they can be easliy cracked or broken. They do add a lot of eye appeal.

As a side note you all may be aware that Hobby Lobby has just come out with another exciting Golden Age Racer - the Wedel Williams No. 44. Check it out.....
Hobby Lobby sure has been adding a lot of new products recently. In fact I just bought my first EDF from them a few days ago (A-7 Corsair II).

I looked for the Wendel Williams Racer but didn't see it. I would love to see more planes from the Golden Age!

Capt Easy
10-26-2008, 07:02 PM
My appology heres the link for the new Hobby Lobby catalogue it's in pdf form.
http://by143w.bay143.mail.live.com/mail/mail.aspx?wa=wsignin1.0&n=423626846&gs=true (http://by143w.bay143.mail.live.com/mail/mail.aspx?wa=wsignin1.0&n=423626846&gs=true)
But it's odd because the first time I viewed it they had two versions of the Wedell Williams now it seems theres only one. When I first looked it up they had a very large, 70", beautiful scale model of Roscoe Turner's No. "44" cream and red trimmed, "Gillmore Red Lion" and a smaller version in red and black. Now all I see is the smaller one. as I recall the larger one won't be available till November. I built a Williams Bro's 1/32 scale (?) plastic model of it 20 years ago and it's still one of my one of my all time favorites.
It's as beautifull as the Gee Bee Y.
Oh, also they're offering another Gee Bee Y in a 60" +/- version as well - in the original white and red paint scheme.

When the larger scale is available I'm going to be interested in it for certain.

Fly Time
10-26-2008, 07:28 PM
My appology heres the link for the new Hobby Lobby catalogue it's in pdf form.
http://by143w.bay143.mail.live.com/mail/mail.aspx?wa=wsignin1.0&n=423626846&gs=true (http://by143w.bay143.mail.live.com/mail/mail.aspx?wa=wsignin1.0&n=423626846&gs=true)

That link takes me to Windows Live email.

groundrushesup
10-26-2008, 08:57 PM
That link takes me to Windows Live email.

Yup. Me too. C'mon Dick I am at work and you've got me all excited to see a new plane!

Capt Easy
10-26-2008, 10:41 PM
Try this one.....

http://s3.amazonaws.com/hobbylobbypdf/Catalog51a-Winter08.pdf

page 16 for the Wedell williams
page 17 for the Gee Bee

Capt Easy
10-26-2008, 11:18 PM
As a point of interest here's what the Wedell Williams looks like - and what I hope Hobby Lobby will be offering next month - this particular one was that Roscoe Turner flew during the Thompson Trophy races.

(This example is a Williams Brothers plastic kit built some 20 years ago.)

Fly Time
10-27-2008, 12:20 AM
Try this one.....

http://s3.amazonaws.com/hobbylobbypdf/Catalog51a-Winter08.pdf

page 16 for the Wedell williams
page 17 for the Gee Bee
The Waco cabin biplane looks great too! I know what I'm asking Santa for this year :D

Capt Easy
10-27-2008, 01:33 AM
Yeh, I second that also Doug....

groundrushesup
10-27-2008, 01:37 AM
The Waco cabin biplane looks great too! I know what I'm asking Santa for this year :D


I want a decent model of the Hall Bulldog (http://www.airracinghistory.freeola.com/aircraft/Hall%20Bulldog%20Racer.htm). :D

Angler-Hi
10-27-2008, 02:47 AM
I want a decent model of the Hall Bulldog (http://www.airracinghistory.freeola.com/aircraft/Hall%20Bulldog%20Racer.htm). :D

That's a gorgeous plane GRU!! I would love to own a kit like that!

groundrushesup
10-27-2008, 04:46 AM
;-)That's a gorgeous plane GRU!! I would love to own a kit like that!

Yeah me too, trust me I am looking. I think one day if I get really ambitious about my building skill I would like to pick up one of these (http://www.aerodromerc.com/Store1/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=33).

Angler-Hi
10-27-2008, 02:02 PM
I hear ya GRU. If I had more time on a regular basis, I would love to have a go at a kit like that...or any other balsa kit for that matter.

groundrushesup
10-30-2008, 08:52 PM
Progress Report #3

So, Things have been busy 'round here; The Geebee stands about 50% completed. I need to mount the electronics, the motor, the wheels and take care of the canopy, but then I'll be done.

Got the dummy engine last night along with the 560 glue. I also got my Eagle Tree logger outfit, and doing some testing on the TP 2409-18 that I have in reserve, I found that it will spin a 10x5e prop providing 1100g (38oz) of thrust at around 17A. Should work well on this setup; for the maiden at least. Still waiting on the REAL KD a22-20L.

Posting from work, but I am fairly sure my landing gear came today, so hopefully I will be able to finish her up by the end of my weekend.

More to follow...

Capt Easy
10-31-2008, 08:17 AM
Keep at it Josh- we can't wait for you to finish her up and put it in the air.
You don't need to glue the canopy unless of course you just want to. Three small provided screws will take care of it. I also cut a thing strip (1/8") of black electrical tape to add around the bottom edge of the canopy to give it a little more finished look.
When your ready to fit the modified gear let us know. It's dead simple and fits perfectly with a small amount of modification. Just be sure you dremel out the wheel pants a good bit. In fact, I'd recommend leaving them off for the first few flights. She lands beautifully but unless you're nearly perfect they do suffer damage. They need a pretty smooth surface without much grass too.
I've been pecking away at the 40" Maxford Green Models Gee Bee Y and got the stock motor mounted earlier tonight. Made a few mods to it better to my liking also. Servos and rudder cables, and elevator control rod are installed. All that's left is locating the ESC and RCV. Then a good ground check. She's mighty handsome in the yellow and black if I may say so. The build isn't as straight forward as the HL Bee Bee but it's well constructed and should be a great flyer depending on the pilot.
If you need anything concerning your build let us know.

Angler-Hi
10-31-2008, 02:13 PM
Glad it's coming together for you Josh. Can't wait for you to get the maiden in friend. I've gotten to the point that I fly my Gee Bee on days that I want to just have a relaxed day at the field. She's easy as pie to fly and has that awesome beauty to boot. Good luck bud.

Mike

groundrushesup
11-11-2008, 10:05 PM
Well, I settled on a motor for this bird. It is a 750Kv that can turn up to and beyond a 11x5 prop. Should put out good thrust and not be too fast for me to handle as I get used to the flight characteristics.

TGY AerodriveXp SK Series 28-30 750Kv / 245W (http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7707)

Model: SK28-30 750
Kv: 750rpm/v
Turns: 14
Resistance: 334mOhm
Idle Current: .4A
Shaft: 3.17mm
Weight: 59g
Rated Power: 245W
ESC: 25A
Cell count: 3-4S
Suggested Prop: 11x5~10x7

Now its just waiting for the slow boat from Chiner.

Fly Time
11-11-2008, 10:11 PM
Well, I settled on a motor for this bird. It is a 750Kv that can turn up to and beyond a 11x5 prop. Should put out good thrust and not be too fast for me to handle as I get used to the flight characteristics.

TGY AerodriveXp SK Series 28-30 750Kv / 245W
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/catalog/imageNA.gif


TURNIGY AerodriveXp SK Series
AerodriveXP SK Series motors are designed for those who want the very best in outrunner technology for their R/C plane. Typically an efficiency improvement of around 8-10% can be seen over similar classed motors. This is in part due to the following;
Stator Laminations: .2mm
Magnet Type: N45SH
Bearings: Dual oversize (Japanese)


Model: SK28-30 750
Kv: 750rpm/v
Turns: 14
Resistance: 334mOhm
Idle Current: .4A
Shaft: 3.17mm
Weight: 59g
Rated Power: 245W
ESC: 25A
Cell count: 3-4S
Suggested Prop: 11x5~10x7

750kv seems kinda low, unless you are going to go with a 4S battery. On 3S it will fly, and you will have nice long flight times, but you might want a little more prop speed.

groundrushesup
11-11-2008, 10:51 PM
750kv seems kinda low, unless you are going to go with a 4S battery. On 3S it will fly, and you will have nice long flight times, but you might want a little more prop speed.


Yeah I had considered a low prop speed and more thrust as an objective of my search, and you might be right, I shot a little too low, but I also bought two of these (http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2106&Product_Name=KD_A22-20L_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor). Just in case. ;-)

Fly Time
11-11-2008, 11:06 PM
Yeah I had considered a low prop speed and more thrust as an objective of my search, and you might be right, I shot a little too low, but I also bought two of these (http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2106&Product_Name=KD_A22-20L_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor). Just in case. ;-)

Let us know how it works. 750kv might just be enough. My 20-22 is 1050kv. Not the same as that one but very close. It turns an 11x5, but it is pretty much at the motor's red line.

ACWOT. Avoid constant wide open throttle.

Something about pushing an air racer to it's limit just seems right :D

groundrushesup
11-11-2008, 11:18 PM
Let us know how it works. 750kv might just be enough. My 20-22 is 1050kv. Not the same as that one but very close. It turns an 11x5, but it is pretty much at the motor's red line.

ACWOT. Avoid constant wide open throttle.

Something about pushing an air racer to it's limit just seems right :D


yeah, I hear ya, but with my level of experience, when I push my planes, I'd say I have a 50/50 shot of pushing them into the dirt. I'm gonna start off slow with this one. :Q

Fly Time
11-11-2008, 11:28 PM
yeah, I hear ya, but with my level of experience, when I push my planes, I'd say I have a 50/50 shot of pushing them into the dirt. I'm gonna start off slow with this one. :Q
Like I said....

ACWOT

Sometimes it's good for the airframe as well as the motor :rolleyes:

But seriously, with that 750kv motor, you might experiment with a SF prop. I use a E-Flite 11x7 SF prop on my P-47 and it performs very well. They are meant to scoop up a lot of air and thus don't need to spin as fast as an APC style prop.

Capt Easy
11-20-2008, 01:37 AM
Hey, no big deal it was just another Gee Bee..... Yeah, right Captain. My nerves were twitching like cheap servos.

Groundrushesup documented with video and brought his new PZ T-28 to maiden also. Both airplanes flew flawlessly despite having to wait for the wing to calm down just before sunset.
The Gee Bee flew a total of about 14 minutes on two batteries with no surprises. Everything functioned perfectly and it flew honestly and beautifully with no surprises - with a little more sensitivity than the HL version. Not as scary as I anticipated it might be.
No acro was attempted - just nice, conservative climbs, turns and glides and few fly by's. Glide path and approaches to landing were controlled with power until the landing attitude. The first landing did result in a cracked wheel pant after smacking a ditch on roll out. Nothing too serious.
In short it is a great flying airplane and I can't wait to get some more time on her.
Josh flew maidened PZ T-28 and I'm really impressd with it. It looks like it'd be a good aerobatic trainier and very easy to fly.
We're both hoping to get together over Thanksgiving and maiden his HL Gee Bee.

Stay tuned for video and details later.

Keep 'Em Flyin'

Angler-Hi
11-20-2008, 03:31 AM
Congrads guys on your maidens!! Can't wait to see some video.

Mike

groundrushesup
11-20-2008, 07:05 AM
Musical Threads. Looks like I posted the flight log to the wrong one. D'oh.

Double posting is bad form, so....

Oh well, I'll just link it (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33761&page=16).

;-)

groundrushesup
11-24-2008, 10:18 PM
Well, I picked up my order from Hobby City at the Post Office today - got the UBEC's and the motors I plan to try in the Gee Bee. I know I had said I settled on that low Kv motor as the powerplant, but I decided that I will likely go with this one (http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5690&Product_Name=Turnigy_2217_16turn_1050kv_23A_Outrun ner) instead. It is a little cooler than the KDA 22-20L (http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2106) in my estimation - same KV range but a little less oomph. One user listed it as 43oz. of thrust at ~19A - around 225W. With my projected AUW that's about 110 Watts per pound, which should be about right for how I want 'er to fly.

In any case, I bought 2 of the a22-20L's, so I can move up if need be. I also splurged on props, getting a good range of both MAS and APCe-style (snot-colored) props.

I'm off Wednesday-Saturday (yahoo!), and I hope to get the UBEC and all the wiring done the first day. I'm interested in mounting the cowl with Dick's method, but that might not be in the cards before the maiden flight.

Meanwhile - I also picked up a few more Zippy 3S 30C 2200mAh packs, which brings me up to 5 total I can put through the Trojan. woot! I'm already addicted to flying the T-28 - having to stop myself from putting it
up this morning in a stiff wind just to get a little stick time before work. :roll:

Anyways, I'll snap a few pics as I progress.

Angler-Hi
11-24-2008, 10:28 PM
Well good luck Josh. I hope the maiden goes well bud. Ever think about the E-Flite P-47? If you like the T-28 you'll love the P-47!!

Fly Time
11-24-2008, 10:40 PM
Well good luck Josh. I hope the maiden goes well bud. Ever think about the E-Flite P-47? If you like the T-28 you'll love the P-47!!
Don't say that Mike! Not that he wouldn't love it, but you are going to get Josh all worked up over a plane that he can't have :rolleyes: Sadly, the P-47 has been discontinued. And he can't have mine :D

BTW, did you ever find a second one for yourself?

Angler-Hi
11-24-2008, 11:06 PM
Don't say that Mike! Not that he wouldn't love it, but you are going to get Josh all worked up over a plane that he can't have :rolleyes: Sadly, the P-47 has been discontinued. And he can't have mine :D

BTW, did you ever find a second one for yourself?

LOL:Q. Nah, I had Dick see if he could find one a while back when he was down in Austin at HobbyTown USA. I saw one there when I went there last, but Dick said they were all out. If I'm lucky enough to find one, I'm going to do some reinforcement mods and maybe put in a Power 10 motor:D. I would also like to do a custom paint job...sorry to stray from the topic guys...P-47 RULES! Ok...I'm done.

Fly Time
11-24-2008, 11:18 PM
That's okay. I love mine too. I flew it yesterday and dorked the landing. Was flying kind of tail heavy because of a very light battery on board. It did fine until I flaired to land, then it stalled and snapped into a cartwheel. Broke the tail off and a wing tip too. Both breaks were clean and it's already repaired, but man do I hate doing dumb things like that! I should know better than to slow it down too much when flying tail heavy.

Angler-Hi
11-24-2008, 11:33 PM
Sorry Doug. I've been lucky so far and haven't broken anything on her other than a prop, when she hit a rut on takeoff before she built up any kind of speed. She nosed straight down at 1/2 throttle and busted the prop. This was about a month ago. It's been about two weeks since I've flown her.

groundrushesup
11-25-2008, 12:00 AM
Don't say that Mike! Not that he wouldn't love it, but you are going to get Josh all worked up over a plane that he can't have :rolleyes: Sadly, the P-47 has been discontinued. And he can't have mine :D

S'okay - I have my eye on the E-Flite Hawker Sea Fury anyway. ;-)

But I've seen pics of Mike's thunderbolt - it is quite a bird to behold.

Angler-Hi
11-25-2008, 12:46 AM
S'okay - I have my eye on the E-Flite Hawker Sea Fury anyway. ;-)

But I've seen pics of Mike's thunderbolt - it is quite a bird to behold.

Well hopefully I'll get the chance to fly with you Josh, when I come up to fly with Dick on Saturday. I'll bring the Jug:D.

groundrushesup
11-25-2008, 02:06 AM
Well hopefully I'll get the chance to fly with you Josh, when I come up to fly with Dick on Saturday. I'll bring the Jug:D.

This Saturday? Awesome! Hey man this is gonna be cool. Maybe you can see me fly the Gee Bee.

Poorly. LOL

If I get my way I'll also have my Formosa II ready to go - on 25% rates lol

Lookin' forward to it!

Capt Easy
11-25-2008, 02:17 AM
The P-47 is okay with me. It's got lots of style too. Just because the Gee Bee doesn't have retractable gear and machine guns doesn't mean I don't like big, heavy airplanes with rounds engines. Fat airplanes need love too.

Flew the SC tonight but winds made it very unpleasent. If it's decent in the morning I'd to take the big fat Gee Bee out.

Capt Easy
11-25-2008, 02:28 AM
Josh if you need to go to the Hobby Shop before coming up let me know...
Hey and don't worry about flying the Gee Bee. Your going to love that airplane Josh. The Granville Brothers decided to open a small parts and service department in my garage anyway.

Angler-Hi
11-25-2008, 02:36 AM
Well guys, I'll definitely be there!! Hey Dick, any good LHS in the area?

Angler-Hi
11-25-2008, 02:52 AM
I'll also be bringing my Phase 3 F-16 if she survives the maiden:

groundrushesup
11-25-2008, 03:29 AM
I'll also be bringing my Phase 3 F-16 if she survives the maiden:

Awesome man, that is hot. Can't wait to see it rip around the sky.

Hey Dick - about the LHS - what are you needing my friend? I might go wednesday morning - not sure yet. if there's something I can get for you, Mike - PM me with the details. the hobbyTown in SA is alright, but not a wonderland.

Dick - I get off tonight around 11:15pm so if you are still up give me a call and I'll answer this time ;-)

Angler-Hi
11-25-2008, 04:05 AM
Awesome man, that is hot. Can't wait to see it rip around the sky.

Hey Dick - about the LHS - what are you needing my friend? I might go wednesday morning - not sure yet. if there's something I can get for you, Mike - PM me with the details. the hobbyTown in SA is alright, but not a wonderland.

Dick - I get off tonight around 11:15pm so if you are still up give me a call and I'll answer this time ;-)

I don't really "need" anything from the LHS, I just thought it would be nice to see what they had. Thanks.

Fly Time
11-25-2008, 06:22 AM
Man I'm feeling kind of left out being way up here in Washington State. Sounds like it's gonna be a Gee Bee party down in Texas! Poor me, left to fly my Gee Bee all by myself :sad:

groundrushesup
11-25-2008, 07:19 AM
Man I'm feeling kind of left out being way up here in Washington State. Sounds like it's gonna be a Gee Bee party down in Texas! Poor me, left to fly my Gee Bee all by myself :sad:

I'll spot you on a Greyhound - times are tough - you guys just bailed out my company though so its the least I could do lol

Josh

Capt Easy
11-25-2008, 07:55 AM
Just finished some Gee Bee details. It never seems to end.

Doug- I was thinking about you earlier and it would be great to have you join us but we know you'll be here in spirit. I'm sure we'll have some pic and video to send on to you as well.

Mike- you did a great paint job on your new F-16. (Is that camo autorized?)
There aren't any hobby shops here except 3-D HOBBY but they just do internet sales mostly. I have been by there several times and visited with Ben and he's always been very cordial but really busy running the place on his own. If we need any small emergency stuff he might have it.


Josh- I'd like to have about three HS-55 rebuild gear paks and a 12" servo extension. If I think of anyting else I'll call you or leave a message on your voicemail. Thanks my good man....

I'm off to bed..flying in the morning if the winds are decent. Wait it is morning.

groundrushesup
11-25-2008, 12:44 PM
just got back from takin my woman to the airport - looks like a nice day for ya - too bad I have to get some sleep for work tonight

good luck!

pstrdenver
08-11-2009, 03:43 AM
alright...enough already. You guys just won't give up will ya. Okay! Fine...I'll get one! Just lay off will ya? I was just window shopping but you "pushers" have just forced me to order a Gee Bee Mini. Hope you're happy with yourselves.

I've enjoyed your thread and am in love with this bird. She's gorgeous. Looking forward to building/flying her.

Kinda nervous since HL doesn't seel any replacement parts. I've never owned a plane that I didn't crash at least once. Hoping that this one can be the exception at least until I get my money's worth.

I have a Turnigy 35-30c 1100kv. will this be comparable to what HL recommends? If not which motor from HL should I order to satisfy need for power but not overkill?

pstrdenver
08-11-2009, 03:47 AM
BACKORDERED!?!?. Ughhh. man that stinks. I was all worked up to get this bird this week yet.

Any other place to get the SAME one?

Capt Easy
08-11-2009, 05:29 AM
No other source that I know of unless you want a Maxford. I like the HL version better for the size and battery hatch. Parts are a bit of a problem and customer service is aware of it but they're hands are tied I guess. Some parts are avail but can be expensive although they sold me a fuse for 30 bucks recently which I thought was reasonable.
As far as motor size GRU or FlyTime should be able to advise you. I'm still running the stock power but plan to upgrade sometime.
Did HL give you an estimate on how long the backorder is?.....I hope it won't be too long. It'll be worth the wait.
Good Luck,

ce

groundrushesup
08-11-2009, 08:25 AM
alright...enough already. You guys just won't give up will ya. Okay! Fine...I'll get one! Just lay off will ya? I was just window shopping but you "pushers" have just forced me to order a Gee Bee Mini. Hope you're happy with yourselves.

I've enjoyed your thread and am in love with this bird. She's gorgeous. Looking forward to building/flying her.

Kinda nervous since HL doesn't seel any replacement parts. I've never owned a plane that I didn't crash at least once. Hoping that this one can be the exception at least until I get my money's worth.

I have a Turnigy 35-30c 1100kv. will this be comparable to what HL recommends? If not which motor from HL should I order to satisfy need for power but not overkill?


That motor and a APCe 10x5 will work a treat.

GRU

pstrdenver
08-12-2009, 04:38 AM
6-8 weeks on backorder and they think all they ordered are already spoken for.

I really like the size of the HL model and the battery hatch on top but the wait is gonna kill me.

The Maxford model has spare parts available and is in stock.

Why do you think the maxford is more expensive and smaller but just as heavy? Is this a sign of better quality, more sturdy you think.

groundrushesup
08-12-2009, 05:27 AM
6-8 weeks on backorder and they think all they ordered are already spoken for.

I really like the size of the HL model and the battery hatch on top but the wait is gonna kill me.

The Maxford model has spare parts available and is in stock.

Why do you think the maxford is more expensive and smaller but just as heavy? Is this a sign of better quality, more sturdy you think.

I can speak as someonw who has seen both fly - the Maxford model seems to be more true to scale - that is, shorter fuselage, with proportional wings, which of course makes the wing loading higher and therefore a bit trickier to fly.

I love my GeeBee now, it is a great flyer. now that Dick knows exactly why he's had so many issues with it (his DX6i is faulty, no doubt about it now), I'm sure he'll get another one and keep it in the air for a long time. ;-)


GRU

Angler-Hi
08-12-2009, 09:24 AM
I think both models are beautiful and a joy to see in the air...but there is nothing "scale" about either one of them. I plan on building the 7ft HL Gee Bee when I get home though.

As for an alternative motor, you can go with a Park 480 from E-Flite. She will have lots of power, but you can fly her with moderate throttle. HL is a bit expensive for me when it comes to their motors and other electronics.

pstrdenver
08-12-2009, 03:34 PM
okay, so Hobby Lobby has the bigger bird with the more convenient hatch but I'm really concerned with the lack of replacememnt parts.

I'm leaning towards the GM 40" even though the hatch is underneath and the size is smaller while the price is larger.

Capt. Easy, tell me is the flight characteristics dramatically different due to shorter fuse and shorter wings? I've read both threads but haven't gotten a real flight report for the GM version.

Capt Easy
08-12-2009, 08:24 PM
They both fly very, very well. The Maxford version requires more attention , is a bit more resonsive and has higher wing loading. As I recall it weighs about the same as the HL Gee Bee. You would probably be satifisfied with either but I still like the larger HL version.

As a furhter note I don't know if the Maxford "instruction Manual" is improved since mine but it was terribly lacking. Other than that it's a quality ARF.

Hope that helps. Let me know if I can be of any further help my friend.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

pstrdenver
08-13-2009, 07:12 PM
just ordered the GM Gee Bee Y Mini EP. I think all the pros this model has outways the HL size. By the way, it will be version 2.1 Extended battery hatch and cover, cowl ring, and direct mounting for motor.

Though neither are exact scale replicas the GM version is definately closer to what the origianl looked like (may they rest in peace)

Will share when it comes in. If you don't mind I may start it's own build thread. (I really enjoy doing them)

Capt Easy
08-13-2009, 10:53 PM
Congrats on choosing to build either of the GB's. We'll look forward to your progress.
Best

pstrdenver
08-14-2009, 12:16 AM
Capt., any tips on the Green Models build that would give me a leg up? Thanks in advance!!!

Capt Easy
08-14-2009, 04:35 AM
You'll find some good info over at RCG on the Maxford GBY:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=697325

My input begins around post 402 but there's lots of useful information included in the 36 page thread.

The instructions were really bad on the first version - hopefully they improved since.

Check it out...I'll visit over there as well.

pstrdenver
08-15-2009, 04:38 AM
from reading the entire thread on Rc Groups, (thanks for the link Capt.) I'm gathering that this GM version is a hard bird to land.

That is not encouraging. I've flown for three to four years with many differfent types of birds but never one that had to landed hot. Except a 30" Ultimate Bipe from Green Models but It was too twitchy in the air so I grounded it before its tenth flight.

I took its pants off and landed it in the grass. Is that a possibility for this one, landing in the grass that is?

groundrushesup
08-15-2009, 05:10 AM
from reading the entire thread on Rc Groups, (thanks for the link Capt.) I'm gathering that this GM version is a hard bird to land.

That is not encouraging. I've flown for three to four years with many differfent types of birds but never one that had to landed hot. Except a 30" Ultimate Bipe from Green Models but It was too twitchy in the air so I grounded it before its tenth flight.

I took its pants off and landed it in the grass. Is that a possibility for this one, landing in the grass that is?

If you take the pants off, the gear are very good at absorbing the shock of landing hot. I have the same gear on my HL Gee Bee Y after a recommendation from either Doug (Fly Time) or Capt Easy, I forget... and they are stout with built in shock absorbers.

As for a 'grass' landing - it depends. We land on grass all the time where we fly, but it is parched, brown grass that is no more than an inch tall (South Texas summers, whaddya gonna do...)

again, My $0.02. ;-)

GRU

Capt Easy
08-15-2009, 03:16 PM
Don't be too intimidated on the landings. It does land a little hot but if you plan your approach consistantly and control the descent with power it'll flare and set down real pretty. Not trying to tell you how to fly, but I usually try to use pitch and power during the flare proportionate to the rate of descent.... Pitch & Power = Performance.
As far as the wheel pants are concerned, just leave them off for a while till you get used to the handling. Relatively rough surfaces will not work for the pants at all but the sprung gear is a nice plus. When and if you install the wheel pants be sure to enlarge the the bottom openings to allow the gear to move freely during less than ideal landings. Reinforceing the insides with more some more light fiberglass is a real good idea too. Also I ordered an extra pair of wheel pants and cowl just in case but fortunately the extras still remain unused.
Hope this helps.

pstrdenver
08-16-2009, 04:31 AM
I appreciate the help. Hoping this was good choice for my money. I know she'll be beautiful but flying her is more what concerns me.

UPS will deliver her on the 19th. Just four days from now. I need to go get some servo extensions, (two 12" and one 6"?) and some CA.

I have a Fly Boy bust coming with the bird from GM so that isn't on my shopping list.

Capt Easy
08-17-2009, 05:52 AM
You should be ok buddy....I call it the Hee Bee Gee Bee's..... Pick a calm, clear day and take lots of video and pictures to share.
Take your time and build her straight and true. I had to add weight to the tail for the proper CG even with all the factory accessories.....I didn't like that too much but maybe the later versions come out better. Just be sure to start out with the recommended CG and eliminate as many surprises as possible prior to the maiden. I also followed all the recommended throws and expos and the maiden was pretty much textbook. She's still flying with no serious issues other than the wheel pants getting scraped up some and being reinforced with some fiberglass.
I'm running all factory power except for the battery. The orig battery "cage" was sawed off and a 5.4oz RHINO 3s1750 20C fit vertically (early version.) It gives a good 6 minute flight and allows plenty reserve just in case a few go arounds are necessary - winds have been really sporting most of the summer not to mention hot. Aircraft don't fly as well in high density altitudes - high heat/humidity.
My appolgy if I got carried away here.....
What colors did you decide on and what's in your hanger up to now?

pstrdenver
08-17-2009, 02:27 PM
Capt., Thanks for the reassurance. I get nervous around balsa for some reason. I'm a perfectionist so it should build well with me but thats half the problem. I put so much time into building them that I hate to risk destroying em.

I have flown :
Several Scratchbuilt foamies -- some retired, some destroyed
Maxford Ultimate EP 30" -- retired after 3 months
Eflite Funtana 300 (foamy) --destroyed after 6 months
Rich Models Cap 232 36" -- retired after 12 months
Hobby People Rhythym Bipe -- destroyed after 14 months?

I am now flying:
Parkzone Typhoon 3D -- 2 + years
Eflite Edge 540 BP -- 1 1/2 years
Eflite P-38 Lightning -- 8 months?

Waiting to fly:
Carl Goldberg Anniversary edition Piper Cub 72" -- Needs power system
Maxford Gee Bee Mini 40"

Capt Easy
08-17-2009, 03:22 PM
I totally relate to what your saying. I lean toward being a perfectionist myself. When the time comes maybe you can take a buddy with you for a little moral support. I haven't been flying that long myself - about 16 months and foam lends more confidence and is easier to repair but I still prefer balsa airplanes.
Press on..

pstrdenver
08-18-2009, 10:46 PM
she's on time and sceduled to be here tomorrow. I have to go out of town for three days so I'm not sure if I'll take her with me and build her on the road (No build thread in this case) or if I will wait and do it when I get home.

Its a hard decision because I'm going to see my best bud who is also a RC pilot. I would just love to fly it for the first time with him.

pstrdenver
08-30-2009, 01:23 AM
well she's completely built and waiting to be maidened.

I had to add 1 1/2 oz to the nose to get her to balance with my 1800 20c 3 cell battery. It feels like I'm going to want more power though. At full throttle she certainly has enough but it goes away at 3/4 throttle. It will probably fly more scale. (something I'm not used too)

build was easy with all the help from you wattheads and this thread. The instruction sucked that came with the bird though. Having never done a pull pull sytem before was my only real hangup.

I'll post more later with pics.

Capt Easy
08-30-2009, 03:47 PM
Yeah, the "instructions" were really disappointing....but if you take your time the finished results are worth it. I chose the yellow and black version and it still gives me a thrill to look at it even though it wasn't the correct color of the original GBY.
I had to add weight to the tail on my version one but it flew perfectly right away with very little trim correction.
Good luck on the maiden. Let us know how it goes and post some photos if you can.
Best