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Madman
01-27-2008, 10:38 PM
Know anyone that has electrified the 16-scale Waco SRE beauty at the Sig site?
http://sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.exe/MainMenuFV4.html?E+Sig

Specifications Wingspan (Top): 69.5 in 1765 mm Wing Area (Top): 756 in≤ 48.8 dm≤ Wingspan (Bottom): 48.3 in 1227 mm Wing Area (Bottom): 354 in≤ 22.8 dm≤ Wing Area (Total): 1110 in≤ 71.6 dm≤ Length: 55.2 in 1402 mm Flying Weight: 9-1/2 - 10 lbs 4.30 - 4.53 kg Engine Required: .75 - .90 (12 - 15 cm≥) 2-Stroke or
.90 - 1.20 (15 - 20 cm≥) 4-Stroke Radio Required: 5 Channel, 7 Servos Controls: Ailerons, Flaps, Elevator, Rudder & Throttle

firemanbill
01-27-2008, 10:44 PM
the link takes me to a 109? I assume you mean the Waco SRE by the title.

I've not done that one but i have done the Cox 1/5th scale Waco YMF-5.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20278

Madman
01-27-2008, 10:53 PM
the link takes me to a 109? I assume you mean the Waco SRE by the title.

I've not done that one but i have done the Cox 1/5th scale Waco YMF-5.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20278 Sorry about that ... yes, I do mean the 1/6 scale Waco SRE that's in the ARF section of the Sig site.

LOVE your YMF-5, too. Great job! Now I'm compelled to walk through your whole build thread to consider that as one alternative, unless being FIRST with the Sig Waco SRE electrification seems more challenging and interesting.

Good winds.

firemanbill
01-27-2008, 10:59 PM
There was another fella on here a while back from Hawaii I think that was doing that very aircraft. It sure is a looker! I bet it flies comparable to mine which would make it a reat flyer as well!

Good luck!:D

haze_b
01-28-2008, 06:19 AM
Aloha Madman,

Yes I have one of the SIG 1/6 SRE's on order. It will be electric. I have a power system on hand I'm gonna try in it. According to motocalc and http://brantuas.com/ezcalc/dma1.asp The following setup should yield a bit better than 100 watts/lb. Should be fine for scale/sport flying.
I'll be using the follwing setup:

AXI 4130/16
80amp ESC
2S 900mA lipo flight battery w/ 6v regulator
7S 5000mA 15C lipo main battery (3S + 4S)
15x10 APC

When I get it in hand I will post conversion pics here. I think the biggest challange will be building convenient battery access and ballancing the model without too much dead weight in the nose. There is a general info thread on this model here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5029305/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm

Madman
01-28-2008, 08:11 AM
Aloha Madman,
The following setup should yield a bit better than 100 watts/lb. Should be fine for scale/sport flying.
AXI 4130/16
80amp ESC
2S 900mA lipo flight battery w/ 6v regulator
7S 5000mA 15C lipo main battery (3S + 4S)
15x10 APC
When I get it in hand I will post conversion pics here. All great info, haze_b. Looking forward to the build sequence. I'm getting about 162 watts/lb in my E-Flite Pitts Model 12 15e ARF, so yours may be a bit more docile, while probably closer to scale. I need to think about just how much 3D stuff I want to try with my Waco SRE when I get it (haven't yet placed the order); especially with my PA KMD and Addiction in my hangar. Meanwhile, I'll be watching your every move and learning, learning, learning ...
Good winds,

haze_b
01-28-2008, 08:20 AM
Madman,

I don't think you should expect more than standard aerobatics out of this airframe. It is not designed to do 3D (the full scale isn't designed for aerobatics at all). If you're looking for 3D, a Pitts or Ultimate may be more your cup of tea. That said, I'm sure the airframe will support plenty of "interesting" flying. ;-)

haze_b
01-31-2008, 04:32 AM
Aloha all,

"Brown" delivered a big, beautiful box of joy today!!! :Q

I finally got my WACO!!!!!!

After carefully unpacking it and laying out the parts, here is what I see so far:

The kit:
Did a parts inspection and, barring any hidden defects, I can attest that this is going to be a beautiful plane! The craftsmanship appears top notch and, after dry fitting the major parts, I can see that the assembly is going to go very smoothly and quickly. There is some wrinkling in bottom wing covering (easily fixed with a heat gun), but at this point everything else looks great. Plus it comes with a sweet aluminum spinner and cool scale details like flying wires.

The build:
If you've ever assembled a balsa ARF, you should have no problem with this model. So with that in mind, my input to this thread will focus on the electric conversion and any general assembly problems I encounter that might be of interest.

The conversion:
One very pleasant surprise is that battery access will be a non-issue. :tc:
The 2 piece top wing mounts to the side of the cabin via an aluminum dihedral brace. So the top of the cabin is actually an access hatch and not structural.

Attached are some photos of the major components, I hope you like what you see.

Tonight I'm gonna curl up with the very detailed instruction manual and begin assembly tomorrow. I really look forward to getting this baby in the air.

More to come....

firemanbill
01-31-2008, 09:44 PM
Awesome! I can't wait to see this one done. Will be following you progress along the way so keep us posted!:D

Madman
02-03-2008, 09:36 PM
Tonight I'm gonna curl up with the very detailed instruction manual and begin assembly tomorrow. Is that manual available to download somewhere? Like to see what I'm going to get myself into, in advance of laying down a purchase order.

firemanbill
02-03-2008, 09:43 PM
wouldn't that be nice?! That is one thing I really like about the E-Flite products. All their manuals are available for download, everything from ESC's to complete aircraft.

Other companies should take their lead and do that

haze_b
02-04-2008, 06:01 AM
Aloha all.

Well... She's all ready for her maiden, I just wish it wasn't raining and dark outside. :ws:

Madman,

I just checked the SIG website, no manual to download :sad: (at least I couldn't find it)

Anyway, no worries. Like I said before, if you've ever (and I mean ever) built a balsa ARF. You can do this model in your sleep. This has to be the easiest build and conversion I've ever done. If you've never built one, the directions are so detailed that it should still not pose much of a challenge. The only potential tricky part is the pull-pull rudder setup. Everything else is straight forward.

The "conversion" consisted of removing the pre-installed flight battery tray and trimming away some of the fuel tank mount so the battery packs will fit. Add a liitle velco in the obvious spots and bingo.... its converted!
*note: there is recessed box built into the fuse just aft of the firewall, this is inteneded to hide the muffler, but just happens to be in the right spot to form a battery tray :tc:)

I ran up the motor on a 6S battery pack. I don't have a meter, but considering it was pulling it's weight (154oz) at 3/4 throttle, I'm sure it will fly with authority on 7S, . (just the way I like it :tc:)

Here are some more pics. (I'll see if I can get someone to video the maiden next weekend)

firemanbill
02-04-2008, 04:25 PM
Man That is one fine looking airplane!:D

Can't wait to hear the flight report!

haze_b
02-04-2008, 09:19 PM
Thanks Bill! If the weather clears, I might get a maiden flight in sooner

Just an additional assembly note:

I decided not to mount the flying wires until I can work out a "quick disconnect" system. They'll look hella cool, but will be a minor PITA at the field. (based on how the model is assembled and according to SIG, they are not necessary for safe flight)

firemanbill
02-04-2008, 09:52 PM
I do not have any wires on my YMF. I will probably get some on there before SEFF to show it off a bit better

It flies fine without them as well

haze_b
02-10-2008, 02:03 AM
Aloha all,

Beautiful day at the field. But no maiden today :sad:

My ESC burned up on the takeoff run.:red:
Do yourself a favor, DON'T BUY CHEAP CHINESE CRAP!!!! It was a generic 80A ESC from United Hobbies. (rated for 8S but cooked on 7S) NEVER AGAIN will I go cheap on something this important!

Anyway, just thankful it failed on the ground vice in the air, somewhere downwind.::o

It'll be sportin' a Castle Phoenix 80A for next attempt, just gotta wait 'til next Wednesday before it comes in.

Meanwhile here are some nice photos at the field.

firemanbill
02-10-2008, 02:12 AM
Nice field!

Dude your plane is Bigger than your DOG! That's cool!

Too bad your ESC failed but you're right. better there than in the air!:D

Grasshopper
02-10-2008, 02:14 AM
That's a beautiful plane Haze! You've got it made. Must be nice to fly in Hawaii. Your little furry pilot looks like it's ready to go too.

haze_b
02-11-2008, 07:37 AM
Aloha All,

Thanks for the kind words guys. The field is great. It's the only AMA sactioned field in Honolulu.

It's reasonably well kept and the wind almost always blows straight down the runway. The down side is that it's surrounded by a swamp with 6' tall reeds. So, like Lake Superior, "never gives up her dead". (you really don't want to crash in there...) ;-)

I'll try to maiden again this comming weekend, weather permitting.

Bill,
I'm working my way up to the size of your YMF. My dog (Jill) would certainly fit in that. Wouldn't that be a cool picture, my dog sitting in the cockpit? :D

(maybe I should have a little pilot hat and red scarf made.... hmm, maybe some goggles too) :Q

Murocflyer
02-11-2008, 07:47 AM
Coming in late, but I agree. Nice field and sweet plane! Is RC a big hobby in HI? Any RC stores there or is everything ordered online?

One more thing I agree on -don't buy Chinese made stuff if you can avoid it. I'm sure all servos are made in China, but there still a lot of stuff that is assembled/made in the USA. (CC comes to mind)

Looking forward to the maiden report.

Frank

haze_b
02-11-2008, 11:02 AM
Coming in late, but I agree. Nice field and sweet plane! Is RC a big hobby in HI? Any RC stores there or is everything ordered online?

One more thing I agree on -don't buy Chinese made stuff if you can avoid it. I'm sure all servos are made in China, but there still a lot of stuff that is assembled/made in the USA. (CC comes to mind)

Looking forward to the maiden report.

Frank

Aloha Murocflyer,

Yes, the RC airplane hobby has been steadily growing here, mostly due to electric power systems and parkflyers. There are 2 LHS's who support RC airplanes. Unfortunately, due to some complex arrangements between the major manufacturers and distributors, some things can only be gotten through mailorder. (ie, SIG wanted to charge my LHS MSRP plus $200 shipping for this model. I ended up getting it from Tower with a $20 discount and $38 shipping. Go figure...) ????

There are many city/county approved electric fields on Oahu. This one is the only AMA field. Other fields include Kaneohe Bay MCAS, where they fly tubines and giant scale warbirds, and Barbers Point CGAS (200' ceiling).

haze_b
02-18-2008, 03:15 AM
Aloha All,

For all those interested.....


I finally got a maiden in Saturday morning and 2 flights in on Sunday. I will post a detailed flight report, with recommended setups, after Monday's flights are logged. (gotta love these 3 Day weekends :ws:)

To summarize everything so far, this is a fantastic flying plane. It is very easy to fly and land, with no bad habits noted so far. (almost impossible to stall)
At this point I've only really been trimmimg flight controls and tweeking my power system, basicly just flying circuts and shooting approaches. Tomorrow I'm really gonna shake her down and see what she's got.

In a nut shell, she flies like a Cub on steroids, except looks WACO cool. :Q

I'll try to get someone to video next flight.

Untill next time........

firemanbill
02-18-2008, 03:44 AM
Awesome! I knew she'd fly well for ya! Can't wait to see some vids!:D

Madman
02-18-2008, 03:58 AM
Ohhhhh, MAN! Now you're setting me up. I'm about 2 days away form completing my Pitts 12 15e, which means, with your success, you need a successor! Moi? Maybe so, maybe so.
Congrats on the big 'un plus some mores.

haze_b
02-19-2008, 04:32 AM
ALoha All,


Well... I shook her down pretty good today. Loops, rolls and inverted flight. She performed very well in all areas. I am very please and all the guys at the field were impressed. (and we all know how good that is ;-))

Ok, details..

CG- Reommended is 111 mm from LE. I ballanced at 106mm. She weighed in at just under 10 lbs all up, with 10oz of lead in the nose to ballance. I'm very happy with the 106 mm ballance point.

Power setup:
After the maiden flight, I decided to prop up to a 16x10 on 6S 5000 pack. It was a bit floaty in the turns with the 15x10. Performace went way up with the bigger prop. 16x10 is a winner! The majority of the fight times were at 1/2-2/3 throttle.

1st flight- flying from grass with no wind. On a 15x10, it was drawing only 40 amps at WOT. At 888 watts, a 6 min flight drew only 1975mA out of the battery.

2nd flight- Flying from paved runway, 5-10 mph cross winds. With a 16x10, drew 54 amps at WOT yielding 1198 watts. (a big jump), a 6 min flight drew 2350 mA out of the battery pack.

3rd Flight- same results

4th flight- Flying from grass, light cross winds. Same setup, 9 min flight 3220 mA out of the battery.

It looks like my current setup will yield 10-12 min flights.

Trims and control setups:
So far I haven't needed flaps. With the 2 wings and big radial up front, it slows down nicely if you have any wind at all.

- On the 1st flight it wanted to do a slow roll to the left, it required 22 clicks of right trim to correct it. 2 clicks of elevator down trim and she was hands off
- As recommended, I mixed 15% rudder with my ailerons. It really makes the turns smooth.
- Rolls were VERY slow, but axial. So slow, you'd think it should almost fall from the sky, but it just kept on flying... really cool :tc:
- Loops were clean and large. No unexpected roll outs. Even did nice cuban 8's.
- Inverted flight required just a tad bit of elevator to maintain level flight.

Take off and landing in 5-10mph crosswinds didn't present any problems. The controls are very effective, so try not to over compensate. Just a touch of the normal corrections is suffucient.

I can assure you, as long as you are not looking for a pure aerobat, you will really enjoy this plane.


Sorry guys, no video this time :sad:.

Bad_B
03-03-2008, 03:31 AM
Hi Guys,

Jumping in late as usual on this one.

Haze_b, thanks for all the great info!

I just wanted to add the April 08 issue of Fly RC magazine also has a conversion of this Waco. Their specs are: Hi Maxx HC5030-390 outrunner off a Castle Creations Phoenix 80, powered by two TP 3S 5000 mAh Extreme V2 packs run in series, throwing a APC 16x8 prop. The article does not mention a separate BEC for the servos, but in the photos it looks like there is a CC 10A BEC. The author claims to be getting 18-20 minutes of flight times off this setup, wow! The specs on the full throttle power are: 51.2 A, 1133.6 watts, 7.54W/oz, 120.6 W/lbs.

Haze, I just wanted to clarify your final battery choice; two 3S 5000mAh in series? What is the C rating on the batteries? Also, what did you choose for flap settings or does your TX have a dial rather than a 3 position switch?

TIA,

Brian

haze_b
03-03-2008, 08:13 AM
Aloha Bad B,

Welcome to the thread. Wow, it's cool that I got the scoop on Fly RC :tc:. I've got 12 flights on her and I couldn't be happier with this plane.

The battery packs I'm using are SkyShark Perfect Balance 2x 3S 5000 mA in series (6S 5000mA). They are 15C discharge rate. I've found them to very reliable and a very good value. www.skysharkrc.com (http://www.skysharkrc.com)

After the first 6 flights or so, it appears the batteries have "woken up". They seem to be performing better each flight. They've never gotten above "slightly warm" , even after pushing them. I got a 12 min flight today only drawing 2860mA out. I'm thinking an 18 min flight is posible with the right setup and throttle management.

Regarding flaps, I have a HiTech Optic6 radio, it has rotary controls for flaps and is dedicated to chan 6. I've been using flaps for my last 5 landings. They make landing VERY nice. At full flaps (30 deg), the plane doesn't balloon at all, it just slows down nicely. Makes 3 point landing look easy. :Q

FYI-

I had my son try to video todays flights, they didn't come our well. I will try again next weekend.

Bad_B
03-03-2008, 09:12 AM
Hi Haze,

Thanks for the quick reply. Yup, you scooped Fly RC, plus their layout didnít have a cool dog in it. :)

Glad to hear about your battery setup. Thatís a lot of money to invest and I wanted to get your feedback before I placed the battery order. Were you still able to use the original battery placement shown in your pictures after moving down to a 6S setup?

I also had a question for you about the wheel pants; have you experienced any binding/wheel lock? Iíll be flying off grass too and thought there might be an issue.

My first experience with flaps was almost the last..didn't mix enough down elevator on my sailplane with a 90 degree flap deployment. Talk about ballooning. :o The only thing that saved me was being "three mistakes," high at the time. lol


Thanks again for the great write up and photos. Now comes the hard part, the waiting.

Cheers,

Brian

haze_b
03-03-2008, 06:42 PM
Bad B,

Regrarding battery placement with 6S vice 7S, I had to add additional ballast to compensate for the loss of weight. I added 2 1/2 oz of lead to the nose. I made it removable, incase I want to move back to 7S. So far 6S is just fine.

The wheel pants are fine on the grass, as long as it is cut short. If it's too long you can expect some noseovers on landing (I've had 2 mild one already). Also you might want to have someone hold the tail while running up the motor for take off. This will also prevent an embarassing noseover and busted prop. ;-)