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View Full Version : Hackers' Osprey & H. Lobby's Donald 4


mirage1146
08-08-2005, 10:42 PM
Does anyone have any info to pass along about Hackers' new Osprey X-28G seaplane. It's suppose to be the same as it's older X-28A but is set up for glow. However I want to go electric, & need info as to what motor size & ESC size, & proper battery. The other seaplane that draws me to it is the Donald 4, by Hobby Lobby. Anyone have any performance info, bug info, any kind of info to make my life (& decision easier) regarding these 2 seaplanes.

Ron
08-16-2005, 08:37 PM
I have a Donald...my thought would be don't go there...if you want a Donald, you can have mine...it does not do well in any sense of the word. absolutely the worst float plane I've ever owned......and there's been a few.

mirage1146
08-16-2005, 09:53 PM
Ron, the Donald is really that bad, huh??? It was the only seaplane of somewhat decent size that I could find that was already set up for electric. The Osprey & Twin Aventura are very light & smaller & bounces off water as if it were concrete. The Seamaster & a few others are a good size & heavier & seem to deal w/ the water better, but are set up for .46 to .60 engines, & the brushless systems required to convert them w/ lipo batteries a must, is way out of the range of my wallets contents in currency. Do you have any suggestions as to what seaplanes I should consider.

Ron
08-16-2005, 11:39 PM
A few of the guys here have tried the Puddlemaster with varying degrees of success, one that does fine is the GWS Tigermoth 400 on floats.......I'm pretty fussy about how my models fly, and could not get the Donald up to snuff . after many mods and tries, it finally became at best mediocre. It does not taxi well on water...wants to bury the nose, and it isn't great in the air, especially in turns. I had to lengthen the nose section somewhat to cure the submarine tendencies, and it doesn't work on grass at all. The TM on the otherhand on stock motor and GWS floats was actually pretty good. I think it would be more to your liking as it seems to fly equally well on wheels or floats. Just my opinion of course :-) but the offer is open if you want the Donald.

willyb
08-19-2005, 02:17 PM
I have one of the older Ospreys that Dymond sold a number of years ago; was an ARC (almost ready to cover kit then). It really was a stable flyer once I put a Mega 16/15/4 brushless direct drive in it. The tip floats rank high on my scale as they are glued on and high off the water with less water looping due to float touch. I have tried both Adventuras and they are calm weather planes only. I have had no experience with the Donald other than reading that others have had set up problems with them over the past several years. At present the Bonnie 20 on floats looks good to me. I have seen one fly on floats and it was very stable, fast, and good for an intermediate flyer. It will do a lot of acrobatics with its semisemmetrical wing. I have been flying one on wheels the last several weeks waiting for the floats to come. Flying it reminds me of flying the Aerophib by Hobby People, a real fun float flying aircraft but for glo power. The Bonnie 20 is expensive but is a real quality kit. The one downside is that you have the wing off to get at the battery. I am using a TP2000 pack with an AXI 2820/10 motor. I ended up putting a hatch on the top ahead of the windshield. If you are thinking about it I will post several pics on how I did it. It is easy to do and uses a single magnet to hold it in place. The GWS Beaver on floats looks real nice in the air but is another calm water plane too. I had the Bonnie 20 up yesterday in a 10-12 mph wind and it is very stable, penetrating the wind easily, and is quite fast. The floats will slow it down some I imagine.

Hope this helps.

Bill

r_kopka
08-25-2005, 06:12 PM
I have tried both Adventuras and they are calm weather planes only.
Can't agree on that. I own an Aventura Twin (2x400, ailerons) and fly it even at wind and waves. Of course it is not so stable in rough wind and waves as a larger plane, but will handle well.

RK

mirage1146
08-25-2005, 06:39 PM
Willy b or r kopka----have either of you flown your seaplanes, Donald or Aventura w/ lithium batteries. The makers say there MUST be airflow over them to keep them cool & must be prevented from overheating. Seaplanes have closed fuselages' to keep water out. any ideas on this???
Mirage

willyb
08-25-2005, 07:07 PM
Mirage-

I have started using a 3S1P TP 2000 Prolite pack in my twin Adventura. The pack must be placed as far forward in the fuse as possible to get the CG o.k. It is still a bit on the tailheavy side but flies nicely. I fly for about 4-5 minutes generally. It only needs 1/2 throttle when in the air and about 3/4 throttle to take off. The battery, after flying, is hardly warm. I imagine if one would fly wide open for 5-8 minutes it would warm up. The TP pack is 20C burst, about 10C continuous. I have also flown it with a 3S2P Etech 1200 which is a bit heavier and it works fine too. I think the C rating on Etech pack is about 6C. The motors are still o.k. and I have about 5 flights on it thus far. The motors do not seem to be warm at all. I have tried the single motor Adventura with the same pack. Because it is rudder only it is not as much fun to fly. The twin will loop and roll nicely. Let us know how you do. I am just getting started with the lithpolys so will get new a overall weight and amp draw one of these days.

Bill

FunFlyer
08-26-2005, 03:17 AM
I have a Formosa on GWS floats, and my mate has a Estarter also on GWS floats. A good intro to float flying, esp with cheap brushless power.

r_kopka
08-26-2005, 09:09 AM
I have started using a 3S1P TP 2000 Prolite pack in my twin Adventura. The pack must be placed as far forward in the fuse as possible to get the CG o.k. It is still a bit on the tailheavy side but flies nicely. I fly for about 4-5 minutes generally. It only needs 1/2 throttle when in the air and about 3/4 throttle to take off. The battery, after flying, is hardly warm. I imagine if one would fly wide open for 5-8 minutes it would warm up. The TP pack is 20C burst, about 10C continuous.
I use the same configuration and can confirm all of the above. After about 10mins (1500-1600mAh, 10A average) the pack is warm but not hot. I think about 40-45C.

RK

wdahlstrom
08-26-2005, 11:15 AM
My son built the Hobby Lobby Donald as an electric last winter and it flies great. It was his first amphibian and it was very forgiving and easy to learn take offs and landings on the quiet lake we chose. Now like all Hobby Lobby electrics you can't rely on their recommendation for power; they're always in favor of under powering the motor. (Just let me tell you how great their P-38 is once you put a couple of Mega 25's in it instead of their "flies great with twin 400's) Perhaps this strategy fits their target price point? Anyway he built his Donald with a Phasor 45/3 brushless motor and a Kokam LiPoly 3200 amp battery pack. This setup is certainy overkil but power is life and several times the power we had paid off. This Donald could fly straight up, it could do rolls and tight turns and even loops with the proper diving entry. One or two times he entered overy steep landing approaches and the plane literally dove underwater. I mean the nose and wings were submerged and only engine (mounted high on its originally designed pedestal) and the tail were above the surface. It kept running too! It popped right back to the surface, taxied and took off and flew away. No problemo. We didn't use any particuar reinforcing scheme and all the waterproofing tricks we have since learned were not available to us. I don't know what wing loads we exerted with our aerobatics and swimming but it wasn't specially built and it held up fine as a stock build. I know Hobby Lobby has discontinued selling this kit and from the posts on this forum I guess others have had problems with it but our experience was much more pleasant. So, since you can't buy them any longer, if anyone has a Donald that they don't want, completed or kit or inbetween, well just drop me a line and maybe I'll take it off of your hands.

willyb
08-26-2005, 01:27 PM
wdahalstrom,

I agree that more power really helps in many situations for float flying. I think that Lithpolys have helped us so much by making the planes much lighter and giving us more volts if properly harnessed to get more power. My Adventuras liked to play submarine several years ago with the heavy 8C 1700 CP nicad packs. Now it is much less of an issue.

I was not aware that the Donald is no longer available. I tried to pull it up on the web and couldn't find it. It was still in Hobby Lobby's spring catalog. I built a Seafoam, I think it was called, from plans by Ken Willard in the late 70s. It had the motor mounted similar to the Donald, on aluminum brackets. It flew very well for its time. Maybe something else will come along one of these days.

Bill

Wattwhere
09-03-2005, 03:14 AM
wdahlstrom
Thanks for sharing your experience with the Donald, I hope to put one in the air before the snow flies. Waterproofing tricks for the large windscreen which has to be removed for each charging would be appreciated.
Tom

wdahlstrom
09-03-2005, 05:03 AM
I'll go back and look but I don't think my son did anything heroic for waterproffing. We have since bought some spray on waterproofing that is supposed to render ESC's submersible (not seriously but it is very good and it is NOT WD-40. It IS expensive) I'll dig it out and post the name of it. We didn't try to make the windscreen water tight. Water does get in and that time my son's too steep an approach made ol' Donald dive under nose to wing roots she did take on water. As stated, she taxied off without needing to be touched by the tender crew and took off and flew fine. There was a long trail of water draining out of the fuselage so things did get wet and then they dried. Mounting the motor up top on a floatie is a good idea.

mirage1146
09-03-2005, 02:32 PM
The Donald can still be bought at www.esprit.com (http://www.esprit.com). for about $90 less than H.L. including hardware. The donald 5 has ailerons as the 4 did not.

wdahlstrom
09-04-2005, 12:16 AM
Hey Mirage I tried the url you posted for the Donald 5 www.espirit.com (http://www.espirit.com) and it didn't lead me anywhere near an amphibian kit. Could you please confirm that address?

Warden
09-07-2005, 01:09 PM
Here ya go on that URL.

http://www.espritmodel.com/

These are interesting comments on the Donald. For some people the plane seems to fly great and for others it flies hardly at all. Go figure!

wdahlstrom
09-07-2005, 03:20 PM
Thanks Mirage. I found my way to Esprit Models and picked up another Donald seaplane. I guess that is the greatest vote of confidence I can make in this kit. My pilot (son) says its the most fun of his air wing. It does need power so install a brushless Phasor 30 something but not the Hobby Lobby or manufacturer's recommendation which doesn't give it enough uummmphhh!

Dr Kiwi
09-30-2005, 05:17 AM
Thanks Mirage. I found my way to Esprit Models and picked up another Donald seaplane. I guess that is the greatest vote of confidence I can make in this kit. My pilot (son) says its the most fun of his air wing. It does need power so install a brushless Phasor 30 something but not the Hobby Lobby or manufacturer's recommendation which doesn't give it enough uummmphhh!

I've got an unbuilt Donald 4 and thought it might be okay with a Phasor 15/4, rather than the "obviously useless from the get-go", H-L recommended, Speed 600.
I guess I need to rethink and put something even bigger on it. What's the biggest prop one can use - 8"? or can you fit in a 9"?? Is there a large, relatively high Kv Axi or Actro which can spin an 8"-9" prop?

Cheers, Phil

mirage1146
09-30-2005, 12:36 PM
Wdahlstrom--I did the same thing you did, typed in ESPIRIT instead of ESPRIT & had troble finding the site also. If you scroll all the way to the right, you will see the motor upgrade recommendation. They like a Mega 22/20/3, turning an 8x6 prop, 40mm spinner & a TP 6000 2S/3S3P lipo pack, which is very expensive. No mention of the speed control. I've got a glider ( same wt. as the Donald) that came w/ a 600 can motor, put a phasor 15/4 in it w/ a jeti 40 amp Sp. control (bought it used) w/ it & it drew 32 amps. I'm sure the Phasor 30 will draw more than that. How much do you want to spend? The motor & speed control will probably end up costing you more than the plane plus all the other required electronics together. I myself will be going for broke. My next plane will be the Seamaster. For a couple hundred more (total cost w/ electronics) I can get a real much better seaplane (good reviews) instead of the Donald ( not so good reviews as per 4 different forums from 4 different sites). But to each his own.

Water Bug
09-30-2005, 10:01 PM
Hey guys!
For cheap thrill try xus hobby. Put their cheapest brushless -15amp esc-and 1300 3s lipo on slow stick with floats. Was super -too windy to really check time but if holds up great buy . Will keep you posted on results.

Wattwhere
10-03-2005, 05:12 PM
Dr Kiwi,
My Donald 4 won't ROW with the 8C nicad pack recommended by Hobby Lobby but lifts quick enough with the LIPoly 2000mah 3C pack using the 600 motor and prop supplied. The pack was placed fwd a bit to correct the C.G. I fly at a slower pace than some folks but after landing 10 so minutes later the battery was just warm. Has anyone changed the shape of the spray rails to keep water off of the nose?
T

airplanesbigdog
10-19-2005, 06:47 AM
Interesting coments since I have had excellent performance from my Donald. It is easy enough to fly that I let friends fly it also and they all enjoy it. Power is a cobalt 05 swinging a 9X4 prop on an 2300 8 cell ni-cad pack. It jumps right off of the water and flies well at a third throttle.
Only problem was a weak wing section where it plugs into the fuselage but surgery and 1/32 ply and epoxy supports cured things.
As for waterproofing the canopy I just use white electrical tape to match the fuselage and have never had a problem with water entering.
That's news from this end.