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Bill G
12-17-2005, 03:53 AM
This is about my 8th or so Guillows job. A few more tricks learned with each one. As nice as they look fully sheeted, a little weight savings on the wings doesn't hurt, so fuse only sheeted. Ususally I end up cutting the center fuse former to clear the Sullivan gold cable aileron servo, but for once, I figured out how to mount it low enough in the wing to fit entirely inside the wing panel. No "bridge" repair needed for the center fuse former. The wing is removable, with washout built into the wing.
For a removable cowl, the supplied nylon firewall is glued in the cowl, after cutting away most of the center for motor clearance and lightening. The cowl is reinforced inside with epoxy glass, to strengthen the eggshell plastic. A trick to locate the dowel pins is to push sewing pins into the nylon piece glued into the cowl, with about 1/8" protruding. The pins will mark the balsa firewall when the cowl is carefully test located to it. Then remove the sewing pins and drill the holes for the dowell pins. Glue the pins in the cowl plate, and drill the holes in the balsa firewall, or vice versa, whatever preferred. For retention, rare earth magnets are glued into holes cut in the cowl plate, which are flush with the surface. Metal washers are glued into mating recesses cut in the firewall, again flush, so that the magnets just contact the washers. This seems to hold the cowl on well, and its not going anywhere once the prop is on.
For this plane with a short nose, the batt access may be directly behind and beneath the cowl, for balance weight needed. What small lipos do for these Guillows planes, with limited space. Plan on using an Eflite 370 outrunner, I've had laying around for a while.

Twmaster
12-17-2005, 05:32 AM
See! Guillow's planes do fly! :D

Nice looking so far! What is the AUW looking like it will be? Also what power system?

Thanks!

Bill G
12-17-2005, 04:42 PM
See! Guillow's planes do fly! :D
Nice looking so far! What is the AUW looking like it will be? Also what power system?
Thanks!

A guy on RCU got one of these flying well. Every time I build one of these Guillows planes, I try to get a bit lighter. I have a Guillows Spit built in similar fashion, that is 11.5oz with 2s lipo and GWS EPS 350 geared setup. This one should be even better. Using a 1.6oz Eflite outrunner (vs GWS geared setup well over 2 ounces on Spitfire), the wings and elevator are covered in extra light Coverite (vs standard Monokote), the fuse formers were trimmed out, as the sheeting adds considerable strength, tail feather are light frame built (vs sheet slab). The sheeted fuse has to be covered in Econokote, as the Coverite is too transparent to cover the sheeting well. I'm expecting around 10.5oz or better. Here's some other Guillows planes from the same series:

Edit: Actually 10oz or better, just weighed near completed airframe on scale at 4.5oz. Adding fuse covering, motor, batt, esc, 1 servo, rec, and remaining details should not top 5.5oz. Below is a pic. Also, this Coverite stuff is nice. Can tack down edges and shrink amazing wrinkle all at 1 low temp. Just not opaque enough to cover the sheeted fuse, however.

cyclops2
12-18-2005, 06:39 PM
Bill G and all the other guys who build with sticks and tissue. Those kits DO seperate real modelers from everyone else. Well done:) :)

Bill G
12-18-2005, 10:08 PM
Thank you Cyclops. We definitely need to see that building does not become a lost art, in today's ARF world. I aready have more planes than I know what to do with. I could see how bad it would be if I just bought them, and wasn't slowed down a bit by building them.

cyclops2
12-19-2005, 12:04 AM
I HAD to PICK a Christmas gift for a couple of years. SOOO. I now have sitting on a dead shelf 1 ea.
Global ARF Spitfire 48" / ST .60 in it.---should be a.32:o
Global ARF AT-6 /O.S. .40---should be a.20:(
Hanger 9 Cessna182 66" / S.T. .90 ---should be a .45:eek:


That prebuilt just does not cut it.
No challenge.
Onward , Blue Foam, to the low wing loads.

I am itching to start the 60" to 80" Avro Vulcan once I can locate a good air foil.:D

Bill G
12-20-2005, 03:32 AM
Speaking of low wing loads, I'm contemplating if I want to use the little outrunner in this thing. Who knows, I may be able to fly on a geared IPS, as I can make 8oz with that setup and 2s lipo. I know it would be underpowered, however. The other thought I'm tossing around is a 180DD with GWS 5030 prop. My FlyZone has plenty of power on that setup at 5+oz, and is a good bit smaller. At 8oz and considerably larger, I may have a better wing loading, although the FlyZones undercambered is very high lift. This is the lightes I've ever got one of the Guillows planes from this series, so I cam possibly think of more options.

Twmaster
12-20-2005, 04:23 AM
I have one of the ~28" span Guillow's Cessna 170 kits and plan to build it for RC. I've built a couple of stick/tissue FF models but this is going to be something of a challenge. There are a few fellows in an FF club I am a member of (DC Maxecuters) who have built some stunning RC planes from ~30 span Herr and Dumas kits.

cyclops2
12-20-2005, 08:41 PM
At 68 and good vision. I would definately buy the Fly Fishermans, Fly Tying magnifying headset, on that intricate stick work. :D

Bill G
12-21-2005, 02:04 AM
I have one of the ~28" span Guillow's Cessna 170 kits and plan to build it for RC. I've built a couple of stick/tissue FF models but this is going to be something of a challenge. There are a few fellows in an FF club I am a member of (DC Maxecuters) who have built some stunning RC planes from ~30 span Herr and Dumas kits.

I keep looking at that plane and their slightly larger one, I think 36". As a matter of fact, just today at the hobby shop. High wingers should be a good bit easier to straighten out. I did a 20" Guillows Piper a few years back, which almost flew, but was a tank. It was early on in my rc career, before I had enough respect for weight.
Cyclops, fortunately for me, my up close vision is excellent at 39, and hope it stays that way. Gradually stronger lenses for distance, but I'll take that trade off any day, to be able to to the fine stuff without glasses.

Back to the Zero, I ended up using a GWS 280 stick mount for DD. Kept staring at the little outrunner I had, and decided to save it for another project that really will need it. Got an Electrifly 370 reverse timed motor for DD, which seems to be pretty powerflul. One of the rc mags talked up its hotter wind. Probably will get one of those low cost GWS LI escs.
Battery fit will be tight, entering from directly behind the cowl, and angling through the next fuse former, as the motor mount stick is in the way. With the short Zero nose, it would be good to put it in the cowl, if possible, for nose weight. As of now, everything will need to be as far up as possible to set proper cg. Good thing the tail feathers were built extra light.

Bill G
12-22-2005, 03:23 AM
Almost complete, less waterslide decals. Managed to set cg properly without adding noseweight, by locating everything as far forward as possible. Good thing the tail feathers were built light and covered with Coverite, as this short nose plane likes to end up tail heavy.
The GWS 300LI ESC is mounted inside the cowl, with velcro, to allow cowl removal. The battery compartment is directly behind the cowl, installing the battery lengthwise and then turning sideways, wedged in foam padding, which is glued in the fuse. I used the build as an excuse to get a GEN2 3s-900 Thunder Power, which I've wanted for these small planes. With 9-11A continuous, these small lipos can now handle the loads of DD brushed, and save weight over something like a 1320ma. Also needed the small size, as it just fits.
The elev servo is seen located as far forward as possible, with mounting tabs glued to the bulkhead and fuse side keels. Both the elevator servo and the aileron servo have no interference problems with the wing and fuse formers, when the wing is mounted. By turning the aileron servo on its side, the servo, its horn, and the Sullivan gold cable are all withing the wing, and do not protrude.
Ended up using a GWS prop adapter, so I could use a GWS push-on rubber spinner, which is close to scale. The little compression bullet prop adapters just don't look right. The Electrifly 370 reverse timed motor for DD seems quite powerful. Definitely a hotter 280 series wind, as I had read about.
AUW is 10.35oz. giving a wing loading of 12.6oz/sq-ft, which is my best yet for this series of Guillows planes.

Bill G
12-25-2005, 03:48 AM
The plane is finished now. AUW 10.3oz. The wing loading is not too bad, at 12.6oz/sq-ft. To set the cg properly, everyting is very far forward, and needs no dead nose weight added. The battery is directly behind the cowl, with the elev servo and receiver against the next former. The esc is in the cowl, with velcro to keep it in place. A 3s-900mah Thunder Power lipo fits very snugly in the batt compartment, having to be angled in, and then turned sideways across the fuse. It fits so well in the foam padding that I doubt it could ever work itself out, even if I left the batt door off. Glued tabs on the inside bottom front of the now removable windshield that angle into slots in the fuse, which are not seen at all, when it is in place. A small piece of fuel tubing slipped over the antenna tube locks the windshiled in place, as the antenna passes through a hole in the canopy, like the real plane. The battery door has the rear half of the cowl vent attached to it, which aligns with the front half of the vent (permanently glued to the cowl) using alignment pins glued to it. The pins slip under the cowl vent, so they are not seen. A rare earth magnet holds the rear part of the vent, which is actually part of the battery door, to the wing.
The wing hold down is actually a slide latch, which Ive done before. Brass tubing is glued inside the rear of the wing, and a perfectly aligned mating piece in the fuse. Since the tubing pieces are mounted in the center eing former and fuse keel, they can be well anchored with a good dose of glue. A wire in the wing tube is the slide latch. The end is bent 90deg to grab onto, and can't fall out, as the slot that you pull it back into is recessed, so it simply butts against the rear of the slot, when retracted. Latches, hold downs, battery doors, etc are some of the fun stuff to design, in these kit bashes.
Not really flying, just hanging from strings from the clothes line/dog run.

Twmaster
12-25-2005, 04:25 AM
Bill that is just amazing. I looked and the Cessna I have is a 24" span model. Should still be able to make a good flier out of her with the tiny RC gear we have these days.

Bill G
12-25-2005, 07:18 PM
Bill that is just amazing. I looked and the Cessna I have is a 24" span model. Should still be able to make a good flier out of her with the tiny RC gear we have these days.

I think the Cessna would be fine with GWS pico gear. I've become a fan of the 180DD motor with GWS 5030 prop on something like a 2s-340, for planes like yours. Smaller and simpler than a gearbox, and works well for this size of plane, if kept light enough. I had a high wing FSK Leonardo with the setup at 7.5oz. The plane had about 30" span and excess power. Faster than the reccomended IPS geared setup.
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Bill G.
Faster than a speeding 1976 Dodge Aspen wagon 225 six!

Twmaster
12-25-2005, 07:25 PM
Yes that little 130 motor seems to often get over looked. I also have a NIB Leonardo. That just might be the ticket for powering her.

Bill G
12-25-2005, 09:45 PM
Yes that little 130 motor seems to often get over looked. I also have a NIB Leonardo. That just might be the ticket for powering her.
1 LEONARDO MUST!: Run 1/8" square balsa from the nose to the rear of the cocpit area, run right along the window ledge, on both sides. This keeps it from crumpling at the nose and window area, where the stress is concentrated.
You will like the little plane. It is an excellent flyer. I simply glued my 180 right to the stick mount, and wrapped with cf, using a GWS 5030 prop. Can rog with the plane. I had a chance to get another one at a hs in D.C., visiting family for like $30. Should have picked it up. Sadly, it is not flying now, but has become the rear fuse section and rudder of an Arado 234 scratchbuild, so it went to good use. You'll get a kick out of the first picture.

Twmaster
12-26-2005, 12:33 AM
Thanks for the tip on the Leonardo. You say you saw one in an HS near DC? Do you remember which shop?

The Arado looks pretty cool. :)

Bill G
12-28-2005, 02:02 AM
Thanks for the tip on the Leonardo. You say you saw one in an HS near DC? Do you remember which shop?

The Arado looks pretty cool. :)
It was a while ago, but it is a shop near Centerville. The business section is huge there, and there is a Lowe's nearby. It is about a block from a MAJOR intersection, and off 100 yards on a side street. You go up about 10 steps to go in. can't remember the name, but hope that helps.

In the mall with the Lowe's there is even another little hobby shop, but they are not very into rc.