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jungmann1
12-22-2005, 03:41 AM
Hey everybody,
Got a new project going and have come up against a little problem I hope you can help me with. I have the airframe pretty much in bare bones and am thinking about covering materials. Here is my problem. I would really like to reproduce a technique shown on the box art. Whoever built the model for the box art used one piece of covering to cover each side of the top of the fuselage and the vertical fin. It forms a beautiful fairing between the two just like on the full size. I don't think any of the covering materials I have used could make that transition without some god-awful wrinkles showing up. Does anyone have experience with covering this area? Thanks for any advice you can give, John.

Twmaster
12-22-2005, 03:46 AM
You may want to send an email to Aero Craft RC as they make the kit for H-L. Perhaps they can tell you what that one is covered with.

jungmann1
12-22-2005, 04:39 AM
Hi mike,
Thanks for the tip. I went ahead and emailed Aerocraft, hopefully they can shed some light on this. Wish me luck!

E-Challenged
01-18-2006, 05:41 AM
Pat Tritle showed how to do the fin transition thing in his Piper Pacer build thread on E-Zone's electric scale forum.

jungmann1
01-19-2006, 10:18 PM
Thanks, E, I will go try to find it right now. I should have known Pat would be the one to ask! Take care, John.

jungmann1
01-28-2006, 02:59 PM
Here are a couple pics of my first attempt. I have to say, it wasn't nearly the nightmare I expected. I guess I had managed to talk myself into a problem before actually having one! Thanks for the help, I will post more pictures as I go. This will take a while to finish as I am building it during my lunch breaks at work. Later, John.

jungmann1
02-07-2006, 02:01 AM
Hey guys,
Here are a couple of updated photos on the Super Cub. I made a scalish looking tail wheel assembly and changed my mind about a powerplant so had to come up with a new motor mount, too.

Twmaster
02-11-2006, 08:32 PM
Now that's a nifty way to mount an outrunner. Like the tail wheel too.

Do you have an idea of where your AUW is going to fall?

jungmann1
02-12-2006, 12:31 AM
Thanks, Mike, I was pretty happy about the way those two came out, too. The plane is supposed to weigh about 21 ounces with the original brushed setup. I don't know what batteries they used on that one. I lost an ounce or so with this motor and will be using a 1320 lipo so hopefully, between the two, I will make up for the weight I added by including flaps and ailerons. Of course, since I am running six micro servos, I can't use the BEC so will have to carry a small 4 cell nimh for the radio. In other words, I don't have a clue what it will end up weighing! Take care, John.

easytiger
02-12-2006, 04:00 AM
Nice work, as always. I would not think twice about the weight, if anything, you will like it better with a little more weight, and even with the extra servos, you will probably come out light anyway because of the lipo batteries.

Got a paint scheme picked out?

jungmann1
02-12-2006, 07:06 AM
Hi Curtis,
Glad you found this. I think you are right about the weight; I am not the least bit concerned, especially with the typically windy conditions around here. A bit higher wing loading will come in handy on those less than perfect days. The mail reason I added the ailerons is because it is a Cub! It just isn't the same if you can't slip it in for a landing occasionally! I have an old Cessna C-37 that I have been flying for years and I still swear one of these days I will build a new wing and fly it four channel. Other than that, it is just the perfect little plane.
As far as paint schemes, I have gone back and forth on a couple but finally settled on this fairly simple black on white version. I am not sure but I believe there is a fine grey or silver pinstripe there, too. I think that will be pretty classy. Take care, John.
PS What have you got going at the moment?

easytiger
02-12-2006, 02:26 PM
Lots of jets...a Hawker Hunter, Su27, F117, yadda yadda yadda...
Also just picked up a Dare A-20 I put down last year, going to repaint it and add outrunner power instead of gas...

I hear you on the ailerons...they just add such a nicer dimension to flying. For some reason, rudder-elevator just bores me nowadays, after a few flights, what then? That's what's happening with my Flyline Stearman...it's lovely, but not that much fun to fly....

jungmann1
02-17-2006, 06:40 PM
Here is an update on my S Cub. First a series of pics showing how the "frieze" type ailerons work. They are supposed to reduce the adverse yaw problem so common with cubs. Notice how the leading edge of the up-moving aileron protrudes down into the slipstream. This adds drag on the inside of the turn to help co-ordinate the turn and reduce the amount of rudder input required.

jungmann1
02-17-2006, 06:47 PM
Here are a couple of shots overall of the fuselage as it sits right now. Callie's Graphics take credit for it not being an all white whale anymore. Plus a shot of the tailwheel as it looks connected to the rudder tiller. I found a tiny chain used for making necklaces at a local craft store and that worked out perfect for connecting the tailwheel. I am currently making the lift struts, jury struts and fitting the glazing in the cockpit. May be making a new main gear, I am not quite happy with this one. Have a great weekend and get out and commit aviation! John.

jungmann1
02-17-2006, 06:50 PM
Where are you flying all these jets, Curtis? Must be hard to come by decent flying fields there in the middle of the big apple.

easytiger
02-17-2006, 07:49 PM
Gear itself looks good, I guess you want another shot at the fairings...worth doing. Tailwheel is terriffic!

I fly jets out at Floyd Bennet or at Orange County Airport(where I have a hangar) or in Moonachie. No flying allowed in Central Park!

jungmann1
02-18-2006, 05:55 AM
Thanks for the kind words on the tailwheel, Curtis. Yeah, I am not happy with the gear fairings. I wasn't happy with them when I finished them and I am less happy now since I changed schemes and the aircraft I am modelling now doesn't even have them on! Problem is, under the fairings, it is your typical model music wire wrapped and soldered at the corners and will look like crap naked. Thinking about a carbon tube version. Take care, J.

easytiger
02-18-2006, 03:07 PM
Without the gear fairings, it would just be steel tube? Maybe slip some split tubing over the wire...

easytiger
02-18-2006, 03:08 PM
Is the full-scale tailwheel square sectioned like that?

jungmann1
02-18-2006, 05:09 PM
Yeah, it is just a welded steel tube triangle on each side, with hinge brackets where it attaches to the fuse so the bungees can work. Yes, the tailwheel is generally a solid rubber Scott tailwheel that is flat, like a heavy duty caster wheel. John.

St. Martin
02-28-2006, 12:07 AM
Hi John, I was at the WRAMS show friday, and purchased one of these for 25$. I have wanted to build one 5ch/floats for several yrs. I may not get to it in time for flying this yr, but atleast it is finally in my kit archive.

Curtis told me of your build, and I was just looking through the plans when I thought about you.

I wanted to do a more scale rib count and cover it with silk. I feel it would handle the extra wt with ease.

Yours is quite beautiful, and clean looking. Good luck with the flights.

Steve

easytiger
02-28-2006, 12:18 AM
John, meet Steve. Steve, John! Two old-school balsa bashers of the highest order. John, show Steve your Flyline Inland Sport...he's one of the guys who would appreciate that...

Just the other day I was fixing up my Flyline Stearman...she had a little incident of falling off a shelf. Ouch. Flyable now, but wings really need a re-cover. That litespan is a little too fragile for me.

jungmann1
02-28-2006, 12:51 AM
Hey Curtis,
Thanks for the intro. I have admired Steves' work for some time in my lurking here and on ezone. I have thought for a while that we would get along just fine and find plenty of stuff to hash over if we were ever to run into each other in a bar somewhere! I will try to scrounge up some old pics of that ancient history. The Inland Sport has seen better days, too. It's pretty ragged these days. I am working on an "E" conversion for it and maybe a general cleaning up.
Steve, glad to meet you! Wish I had been at the WRAMS show with you. Never been able to make it to that one. Looking forward to the Toledo show in April. Going to try and take my ten year old son with me this time. I didn't even think about counting ribs on my Cub. With the leading edge sheeting on top, don't know if it would be worth the extra trouble. I want to try mine on floats, too, but I am going to see what kind of power surplus I have before I go to the trouble. Got any leads on scale Edo's? Take care, John.

crxmanpat
02-28-2006, 02:27 AM
Hi guys,

Just got this kit from HL last week. As soon as I finish my GWS Cargotrans build (like the one in my Avatar), I will start on this. Been over at RCG for a few months, and fellow flyers are on here too, so here I am also. Looking forward to comparing build notes and mods.

Pat

jungmann1
02-28-2006, 09:39 AM
Here are a couple of shots of the Inland along with the Stearman.

jungmann1
02-28-2006, 09:42 AM
Sorry about the crappy pics of the Inland; they were taken pre-digital and then the prints shot with a digital camera.

St. Martin
02-28-2006, 09:56 PM
Those are two beautiful Flyline examples, John. I think the Inland Sport is the only Flyline kit I never built. My favs were the Great lakes, Jungmiester, and(refreash my memory..) the 48" parosol job. I wish we had brushless and lipos in those days.

I have a set of three views of the EDO floats(somewhere in my bags of hundreds of plans). I copied them from a website I found a few yrs ago.

I would really like to go the full route with stiching and rib tapes. I love doing this on a "rag" plane. I'll probably laminate the outlines, also.

If I remember correctly, I flew my Stearman, in the early 80's, with a dieselized Cox .049 Medallion. Stunk like hell..

Steve

jungmann1
03-01-2006, 01:45 AM
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the kind words; the Flyline birds are beautiful even if they do fly a little on the heavy side.
I laminated the outlines on the Cub, too. I don't know of a better way to produce rounded outlines. Are you serious about the stiching and rib tapes? I have done it on much larger planes but would think it would be very difficult not to overdo it on this size bird. Are you going to start a thread on that build? I would love to follow along with you on that when you do. I will have a couple new pics to post tomorrow night. All I lack on my Cub is wheels and jury struts. Still waiting on some Trexlers from Penn Valley for the rolling stock. Can't wait to see it with those jumbo balloon tires on it. Later, John.

jungmann1
03-01-2006, 01:53 AM
hey crxman,
welcome to the thread, would love to see how yours goes together when you get to it. Let us know how it goes. John.

crxmanpat
03-01-2006, 06:15 AM
Hey John,

Thanks for the welcome. I'm looking forward to being a part of this community. As soon as the C-130 is done, I will start on the Cub. I will create a build thread when I do.

Pat

St. Martin
03-01-2006, 10:00 AM
Hi John, The plane will have a higher AUW to it, but not as much as one would think. The rib tapes are cut tissues and the stitches RC-56. Probably about an ounce for the whole plane added. I recently did a Rittinger 109, for a customer in Colorado, and I built up the tailsurfaces. Covered them in Kover-All and used the tissue rib tapes and glue stiches. Even with the long tail, it balanced with only a 2100 3s. And he used a lighter mtr than Rittinger did on the proto!
I recieved a few comments, that it would be to heavy. And they were quite ruthless in their point! Then of course I have to open up the class room. ohh.. the poor and un-knowing..

Not sure when I'll get to it, John. Spring/summer will be here, and my building slows.


Steve

easytiger
03-01-2006, 10:14 AM
What are you doing up at this hour?:)

St. Martin
03-02-2006, 06:50 AM
How about this hr? WOW, haven't seen JOY wheels around in a little bit.. I wish someone would make them again.

Steve

easytiger
03-02-2006, 01:57 PM
They are Banner brand...same as Joy? My Super Cub is currently a wall hanger, too heavy, too much dope, not enough wing!

jungmann1
03-02-2006, 11:04 PM
Hi guys,
Just a few pics to show you where she stands as of today. STILL waiting on those Trexlers. GRRR. John.

jungmann1
03-02-2006, 11:08 PM
Curtis, it probably just can't heft those wheels! Solid rubber, solid hub, right? Change'em out for some foam jobs and it will be a whole new airplane. Hee, hee. John.
Hey, at least it looks nice. Is that an original scheme of your own or did you finish it after a full size?

easytiger
03-03-2006, 02:36 PM
That was a factory scheme for the piper cub cruiser. I liked it, and it's the one shown on the plans. That's a 1948 Guillows kit designed by Lou Andrews.
You are so right about the weight of the wheels, but, you know, I pretty much built the whole plane around those damn wheels, and can't bear to take them off.
It was powered with a TD02, it just went up and over and on it's back on several attempted launches. I may re-power her with electric at some point. Was 8 ounces, on 29 inch wingspan, not a lot of area. It was the dope, I tell ya! Silk and dope, done to a full-scale type grain-free gloss...feels so sensuous, but weighs so much! I just started to spray, and could not stop!

jungmann1
03-03-2006, 07:37 PM
Are you telling me you pet your airplanes?

easytiger
03-03-2006, 07:41 PM
Don't you? Nothing quite like the feel of silk with eight or ten coats of dope, when the weave is totally filled, and it starts getting like plastic...

jungmann1
03-04-2006, 12:50 PM
Our secret is out! I wonder just how many of us there are in the world. It's been sooo lonely. Thanks, Curtis.

St. Martin
03-04-2006, 07:51 PM
Your correct, Curtis. The Banner wheels were later sold by JOY. Remember the 72" Joy Aeronca C-3? I had one in Fla. Came with the wheels. I miss that plane. I have a Cannon .12 twin that I would like to put in a 54" version. Even the exaust would be scale!

Just cannot beat silk. I love holding a plane that has just enough dope to seal and leave a little weave showing. It feel's like a model airplane should feel. Of course my ex-anchor did not appreiciate my feeling up a plane all the time..

On those Trexlers, John. Please don't use your breath to inflate them. They will rot. They will last a long time if internal moisture is avoided. This means using the Trexler pump or a Hypo syringe. Deflate them if storing for periods of more than a week. This avoids condensation. I deflate mine after each flying session and inflate them at the field. Put a touch of talc on the air stem before twisting and wrapping around the hub. Over inflation and you will bounce back into the air on landing. I put onlyenough air that it leaves a small flat spot whan sitting at rest.

Steve

easytiger
03-04-2006, 08:21 PM
I have a framed-up Joy Aeronca hanging from the rafters!
I also have a 36" Berkeley one...same story as this Cub, too much dope, and the 020 would not pull it. Waiting to get around to an electric conversion.
The Cannon 12 is a weak and heavy lump...you should really measure how well it will fit. Originally, I had a Topline 040 twin for the 36" one, but it was just too large and destroyed the lines of the nose.

St. Martin
03-04-2006, 08:30 PM
I had plans for the Cleveland C-3. 54". Fit great. The engine is a dog, if you try for speed. But, it will spin a 9x4 old Top Flite prop like a 4stroke. The guy who gave it to me, had a 7-5 MAS. Not enought. The mtr is all tork. It actually loses power at higher rpm's. The only thing I did not like about the Joy C-3 was the all sheet fuselage. But the wing was very scale-like.

Steve

jungmann1
03-04-2006, 08:36 PM
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the hints on the Trexlers. I have had that rotten experience before and suspected it was due to blowing them up orally (I wonder if that will earn a censor). I ordered the Trexler inflation pump at the same time as the wheels so I wouldn't be tempted to do that again. I have also left them inflated too long in the past and had the inflation stem seal itself closed to where I couldn't deflate them. I appreciate the benefit of your experience.
Never been able to get my hands on a Joy C-3, but it is one of my favorites. I have one in the shop, not sure of the manufacturer, some small cottage outfit. In fact, I think I might have bought it from Curtis! That is on my short list. Have a great weekend, guys. John.

easytiger
03-04-2006, 08:36 PM
Agreed on the G-mark. But it produces a really small amount of power for the weight. But, hey, it will fly an Aeronca, the full scale one only had 36 ponies!
The joy one is a brick. Which is why it has been hanging up in the rafters for a decade...

easytiger
03-04-2006, 09:08 PM
Maybe a Hunt Aeronca? did they make one?

jungmann1
03-05-2006, 12:42 AM
No, not Hunt, though those are awesome little kits. Just checked, its by Schreyer Model Aircraft. 58 inch span, supposed to fly on a .10. Even comes with floats! Think I might need a little more power than that flying off of water. Was thinking about an O.S. .20 four stroke which I happen to have gathering dust. Haven't stuck it up on the plans yet to see how it would fit. Might be too huge.
I built a Hunt Taylorcraft a few years back. In fact, that was the bird that my Trexlers rotted off. Flew pretty good with Co2 power. Would have to do it electric r/c today, I think.

jungmann1
03-18-2006, 02:59 AM
Finally got the maiden out of the way. Got a beautiful evening a couple nights ago and took advantage. Still without the Trexlers, but they are in the mail. In short, awesome! Didn't have to touch a trim lever the whole flight. Can't remember the last time that happened. The frieze ailerons worked amazingly well! None of the adverse yaw typical of
Cubs. Flaps worked well, too, just wish they were on a proportional channel instead of a switch. Need to play around with props a little, I think. Using a 9 x 6 E-flite; I think I will try a 10 x 4.7 APC. I think a flatter pitch will be better. AUW is 23 ounces with a four cell nimh for the radio and a 1320 three cell lypo for the motor. Hope to get some flying pics next time. Later, John.

crxmanpat
03-31-2006, 06:51 PM
Hi all,

Just a note to let you know that I am putting the finishing touches on my Super Cub. All that's left is the windows and wing struts. I hope to maiden it this weekend. I will post some pics when it is complete.

Pat

jungmann1
04-01-2006, 02:10 PM
Sounds great, Pat. What are you running as far as equipment and do you know what your AUW is yet? John.

crxmanpat
04-02-2006, 06:59 AM
John,

Finished her up last night. She comes in at 16.9oz AUW with a 3S TP1320. Setup is an Esskay 400XT outrunner swinging an APC 8x6 prop, CC Tbird 18 ESC, Hitec 04MG Rx and HS55 servos all around. I wound up cutting in ailerons (no flaps) and covered it in standard Cub yellow. Even though it's officially a Super Cub, I still like the original yellow with lightning bolt stripe.

Maiden was this morning, and it was somewhat of a handful. If you look at the head-on pic, you can see the wash in on the right wingtip (how did I miss that?). Plus my modified stick mount was not set at the proper thrust angle, so I shimmed out the motor mount with some down and right thrust. Fortunately, I was able to get her down in one piece.

It's all fixed now, and will try again tomorrow. I expect better results this time. I may be a little over powered with that 400XT. I lifted off in 10ft at 1/4 throttle, although I'm sure the thrust angle played a part in that. I'm looking forward to some nice low power take-offs and landings.

Pat

jungmann1
04-11-2006, 10:53 PM
Hi Pat,
Great looking S Cub! How in the world did you keep the weight that low? I guess I don't build as light as I thought! Are you having any trouble running four servos off the bec? I imagine that is where most of my extra weight comes from. Two more servos and a seperate nimh pack for the radio. My flights have been pretty nice except for the takeoffs but I think that is mostly due to the trexler balloon wheels. It really isn't much fun in any wind but the one flight I have had in calm air was wonderful. Take care and enjoy your Cub! John.

crxmanpat
04-12-2006, 12:22 AM
Hi John,

Thanks for the compliments. My weight savings are in the motor (it's direct drive) and by using lipo. No problems with 4 servos, no extra battery needed. I have several 4-servo planes that use the same battery as the motor, and have had no problems on any of them.

I am soon going to be adding about 6oz to the plane as I need to beef up the structure above the landing gear. I did not post an update after the second flight. It went much better flight wise, but even a small bounce on landing was enough to damage the structure. I will be reinforcing that with lite ply, and substituting the balsa battery tray with lite ply. The added weight won't be a problem as I have plenty of power in that outrunner (best $20 brushless motor in the world).

The biggest problem I seem to have is keeping the wing strut mounts attached to the fuse and wing. Since I will have to recover the forward section of the fuse, this time I will attach them before covering.

Pat

crxmanpat
04-13-2006, 12:00 AM
Spent a couple hours last night adding some lite ply planking between the LG and balsa doors, and building a new battery tray. I must say, for just a few extra ounces, it sure is a LOT more sturdy now than before. I should have no problems on landing unless I bounce really hard.

Unfortunately, I used almost my entire roll of yellow Solarfilm on the initial covering, so the fuse is still bare at the moment. My package from Horizon should be here in a few days though.

Now, back to the Guillow's B-17 build....

Pat

jungmann1
04-13-2006, 01:35 AM
Hi Pat,
On the strut attach points, I soldered small tabs of sheet brass to brass tubes so I could slot the attach points and glue the tabs into the slots. I couldn't see how just attaching them to the surface would last and, from your experience, I guess I was right. I am working on plans for a set of floats for mine. Good luck! John.

crxmanpat
04-13-2006, 03:32 AM
John,

I guess my problem was that I did not expose any bare balsa when I glued on the attachment tubes. Silly me! That has now been rectified. Seems to hold pretty good now. All I need is my covering to arrive and I'm in business again.

Pat

bigbob
04-16-2006, 04:46 PM
I would like to find out more about "frieze" ailerone hinges BTW great building job BOB

crxmanpat
04-17-2006, 10:03 PM
After reading some posts on another site, I decided to create a battery hatch just aft of the LG attachment point. First I glued a small strip of lite ply just aft of the rear LG mount, then added support rails along the fuse frame. I cut my hatch cover from lite ply, added a tab to the front and finger hole in the back.

I was going to use two magnets, but they are so strong I only needed one. In fact, I had such a hard time getting the hatch off with one magnet, that I had to add a couple strips of lite ply to the hatch interior to keep it from breaking during removal. All I need to do now is recover, and I'm flying again.

Pat

St. Martin
04-19-2006, 12:55 AM
Hi John, I started the cub, this week. I'm still up in the air(pun not intended) as to go with the silk covering. May opt for silkspan. But it will have flaps and ail.

Steve

crxmanpat
04-20-2006, 08:38 PM
The unfortunate thing is, she is not equipped for a water landing http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif

So last night I finished recovering her, put the landing gear back on, plugged in a battery and tested everything out. All seemed OK after a few quick taxi runs. I got up an hour early this morning so that I could hit the field before heading off to work. Plugged in a battery, rechecked everything, and off she went.

Obviously, my fiddling with it for the last few weeks has thrown off the trims. Needs some down trim and right aileron. I quickly realize that I have to put in full right aileron and lots of right rudder to get it to fly straight! I need to get her back down quickly. Now I find I can't turn it 180* to get her coming back at me. I initiate a turn, right is non-existent, left gets around much too quickly for me to level her off back towards me.

Panic sets in as she is getting very close to a busy road, but I have sufficient altitude so I'm not too worried about her coming down in the street. The entire time, she is getting further away from me. I finally get her leveled off and flying back towards me (so I thought). Turns out she was actually headed directly away from me. Fortunately, she is no longer near the road, but is directly overhead of a water treatment plant. By the time I finally realize she is heading directly away from me, I try to get her turned around. By this time she is far enough away that I cannot determine orientation. I chop the throttle (was never over 1/2 the whole time, mostly at 1/4) and watch helplessly as she makes a slow spiral towards the ground.

My worst fear is that she has come down inside the boundries of the plant. I jump in the car and drive towards the area. The plant is bordered by a water management canal, and then a water preserve and park just past that. I start my search along the water canal, looking on both sides into the plant and the watershed areas. No luck. After about 30 minutes of searching, I finally head towards the park area.

Finally, I catch a glimpse of yellow (thank goodness I used standard cub colors) sitting in the water! Turns out that she's in the watershed area of the preserve, and it's literally only inches deep. Only problem is that she's about 30' from dry land. I am dressed for work, and have wasted all of my free time conducting the search. If I go in after her, I have no time to go back home and change into dry clothes.

So it looks like I will be doing a water rescue tonight after work. I'm not afraid of it being discovered by someone else before then because she's very hard to see as there is lots of vegetation growing in the water.

She looks to be fully intact. I'm pretty sure she made a soft landing as she was in a slow spiral descent. The bad news is that the fuse is completely submerged. Only the tailfins and wings are out of the water. Potential losses are:

1 TP1320 3S lipo
1 400XT brushless outrunner
1 Hitec 04MG Rx
1 Castle Creations T-bird 18 ESC
2 Hitec HS55 servos

The only electronics not submerged are the two aileron servos.

Needless to say, the hour drive into work this morning was very depressing. This plane has had one good flight, so I must have really torqued something up during my recent repairs. She may become a hanger queen for a while as I contemplate what to do next. I have another build in progress (a Guillow's B-17), so I may concentrate on that for a while. I will report back on the carnage once I get her out of the water tonight.

Pat

crxmanpat
04-21-2006, 04:35 AM
Here's some pics. If only it had come down 30 feet shorter, it would have missed the water. Leave it to me to land in water in the desert!

Battery is a total loss, even though it did not puff. It is reading no volts. I still have to strip out the other electronics to see if I can salvage any of it.

St. Martin
04-30-2006, 11:59 PM
Just waiting fot the wind to die to under 20Knts. Ahhh... spring in New England...