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Jeff Boyd 2
12-30-2005, 10:20 AM
This is my most ambitious project yet, and I thought I'd share it with you all. Hope you like it.
Cheers, Jeff

KATANA 40 REVIEW

Since my return to the great hobby of RC flying over a year ago, I have been flying EP Park flyers and indoor models. When I left the sport I was mainly flying Pattern IC aircraft as this was my passion. I have since discovered 3D (never existed back in 1979 – neither did EP to any extent) and all my park flyers and indoor models are very 3D capable.

THE MODEL
After I had “cut my teeth”, I became very interested in larger EP aircraft, and when costing it all up . . IT GOT EXPENSIVE. I decided something around a 3.5kg sport model/aerobatic model was about my limit, then I stumbled on a ESM Katana 40 3D ARF model at about 2.5kg. This model has a span of 55 ½” (1405mm) and a length from fin tip to spinner nose of 59” (1490mm) and looked very similar to the 40 sized Funtana designed by the famous Italian F3A and 3D pilot, Sebastiano Sylvestri

Jeff Boyd 2
12-30-2005, 10:25 AM
THE POWER SYSTEM
The Katana is originally meant for a .40 – .53 cu.i. 2st or a .52 to .70 cu.i 4st, however my plan was to convert it to electric power and put one of the new breed outrunners in it. I looked around for a while and almost settled on an AXI 4120 when a friend told me about the new Hyperion Outrunners. I checked the specs on a Hyperion HP-Z4025-12 (looked good) and also liked the neat, large diameter bearing that supports the outer extremety of the bell. This motor looked efficient and well made, so I ordered one (what the heck . . the motors are one of the cheapest parts of the exercise).
( see the data on this motor here http://aircraft-world.com/prod_datasheets/hp/z40/z40all.htm )

Jeff Boyd 2
12-30-2005, 10:32 AM
The ESC is a Castle Creations Phoenix 45. This ESC can fly all day at 45A (with cooling air flow) and bursts of 60A are no trouble.

The batteries are 2 packs of MEGA Power 12C / 16C burst LiPo 5S1P 2200mAh wired in parallel. This is 5 cells in series x 2 cells in parallel giving me 18.5V and 4400mAh (5S2P).

Initial tests show that this set up with a 15 x 8 APC-E prop should be around 750W at 45A static, which is ample for the excersise and well within the capabilities of the ESC and batteries.

Jeff Boyd 2
12-30-2005, 10:35 AM
THE RADIO UNIT
I use JR Radios and I will be using my trusted 9X transmitter, R700 receiver, and I will be fitting 4 x JR ES539 Servos. These servos provide 4.8 kg/cm torque at 4.8V however, as I will be using the batteries that provide the motor power and not running a separate receiver pack, I will be fitting an external BEC (Battery Eliminator Circuit) and running these servos at 6V providing even greater torque and speed. NOTE: The Phoenix ESC has an internal BEC however operating these servos with it is stretching the capabilities and could lead to an ESC burn-out, and convert the Katana from an ARF to an ARB (Almost Ready to Burn)

Jeff Boyd 2
12-30-2005, 10:40 AM
INSIDE THE BOX
First thing I noticed was the size of the box. It’s big for a 40 size model. This is because the wing comes built in one piece. Inside the box is all the necessary bits packed in plastic bags and well separated by cardboard “baffles”.

Jeff Boyd 2
12-30-2005, 10:44 AM
INSPECTING THE PARTS

Pulling the parts out, the first thing noticed was the size of the ailerons . . these things are huge, and make up nearly 1/3rd of the wing chord, which is a fairly large chord for the span. The wing has enormous area, and I expect this to show up in it’s performance of slow speed 3D maneuvers.

The fuselage is the standard laser cut balsa and ply build-up with the motor offset already built into the largish firewall. This makes the front look like a mistake, however it is not, as you’ll see the preinstalled motor mounting blind nuts are set off to one side so the prop shaft will exit the cowl smack in the middle. When the prepainted fiberglass cowl is installed, the ugly angled firewall is hidden

The stab is also a fully built up construction with a symmetrical section and large counter balanced elevators. The Fin and huge counter balanced rudder is also of built up construction. There is no question these surfaces are designed for 3D.

Jeff Boyd 2
12-30-2005, 10:52 AM
CONSTRUCTION
First job was to check out all the parts for warpage and alignment. All looked pretty good. A quick run over some of the covering with the iron and all wrinkles were gone.

AILERONS
Next job was the aileron installation. This was going to be simple as it uses CA hinges and all surfaces are pre-slotted. One little trick I like to do is to use a small tapered rotary file about 10mm long and about 2.5mm diam tapering down to a sharp point at the end. I then simply drill a coned shape hole into the center of each hinge slot.
When the hinges are installed this leaves half of the 2.5mm cone on each side of the hinge and allows the CA Hinge Glue (thin) to “funnel” down the hole and wick in from inside as well as just the exposed edge of the hinge.
I have found this to provide a super strong hinge connection. After the CA has cured, always give a firm tug at each hinge point to ensure the bond is strong enough, but be careful not to pull or grip too hard as damage to the structure may occur.

Jeff Boyd 2
12-30-2005, 10:55 AM
NOTE: Use T-pins in the center of each hinge when installing the surfaces to ensure equal amounts of hinge are in each side.

Jeff Boyd 2
12-30-2005, 10:59 AM
Fitting the JR ES539 Servos for the ailerons was standard procedure using the hardware supplied. One little trick I use is to fit the control rod in a slow speed drill and hold the clevis in my other hand as I “drill” the threaded rod into the clevis to the desired point. This relieves an otherwise arduous task.

Jeff Boyd 2
12-30-2005, 11:08 AM
ASSEMBLING THE TAIL
This was just a matter of removing the covering on the fuselage to expose the openings for the stab and the fin, then temporarily fit and square them before marking with a fine marker pen and removing the covering to expose the balsa ready for glueing. Be careful not to score the balsa during this process as it weakens the structure.
I then fit T-pins on the marker line (on one side of the stab to allow sliding through the slot in the fuse) before removing the maker lines with alcohol (these marker lines are ugly if left). Then simply slide the tail and fin into position up to the T-pins.
I used 30min. epoxy for this job to allow ample time to double check the squareness, and cleaned up any excess with Acetone before it cured.

Hinging the elevators and rudder was the same as for the ailerons, except for the additional fitting or the elevator joining wire and tail wheel.
Starting to look GOOD !

Jeff Boyd 2
12-30-2005, 11:13 AM
FITTING THE MOTOR
As this is a glow to electric conversion, I decided before I go any further that it was time to fit the Hyperion Outrunner, as the balancing of the model may be quite different to that of the glow version and decide the final positions of some serious componentry.
I decided to use my own idea (probably been done before) of 3” PVC waterpipe and blanking caps as a mount. I figured this was going to give a light, rigid, and structurally sound mount that is easily adjusted to length and squared up before gluing together using the standard plumbing method of solvent glue.
It’s easy, and I like it. Under the cowl, it looks no different.

Jeff Boyd 2
12-30-2005, 11:23 AM
This early balancing proved wise, as the model was going to be rather tail heavy (the Hyperion Outrunner only weighs 356g compared to a Saito .72 at 475g), so I decided to shift the rudder servo from the tail and mount it in the fuse above the center of the wing and use a Dubro Pull/Pull system. The JR ES539 Servo weighs 38g and mounted at the tail was the equivalent of approx 140g in the old fuel tank area. This action has allowed me to mount the 5S2P 4400mAh pack in the fuselage in the front half of the wing cavity. Much easier for access I was contemplating the need to make an access hatch above/below the old fuel tank space.

MORE TO COME . . .

Rugar
12-30-2005, 11:58 AM
The ESC is a Castle Creations Phoenix 45. This ESC can fly all day at 45A (with cooling air flow) and bursts of 60A are no trouble.

The batteries are 2 packs of MEGA Power 12C / 16C burst LiPo 5S1P 2200mAh wired in parallel. This is 5 cells in series x 2 cells in parallel giving me 18.5V and 4400mAh (5S2P).

Initial tests show that this set up with a 15 x 8 APC-E prop should be around 750W at 45A static, which is ample for the excersise and well within the capabilities of the ESC and batteries.

Jeff,
The Phx 45 is not rated for 45amps using a 5S setup. This is per Castle Creations. You need to use at least a Phx 60, and a Phx 80 would be better. I almost made the same mistake by using a Phx 60 with 6's. Please see these posts.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4493444&postcount=3

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4534449&postcount=5

Jeff Boyd 2
12-30-2005, 12:07 PM
Hi Gerald. Thanks for that info. Looks like I might need to upgrade. Maybe a Jeti Advance Opto 70 ? ?

Rugar
12-30-2005, 12:17 PM
Hi Gerald. Thanks for that info. Looks like I might need to upgrade. Maybe a Jeti Advance Opto 70 ? ?

I would think that would work just fine.

termite
12-30-2005, 03:33 PM
Go for the Castle HV45

Randy
Dynamo Electrics

Mike Parsons
12-30-2005, 04:32 PM
Nice subject. I like the idea about the tapered bit for the CA hinges. Good stuff.

-Mike

watt_the?!
12-30-2005, 07:57 PM
nice work Jeff....mate- where are you in Adelaide?

excellent detail in the report.

Tim.

watt_the?!
12-30-2005, 08:00 PM
Jeff,
The Phx 45 is not rated for 45amps using a 5S setup. This is per Castle Creations. You need to use at least a Phx 60, and a Phx 80 would be better. I almost made the same mistake by using a Phx 60 with 6's. Please see these posts.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4493444&postcount=3

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4534449&postcount=5

you da man Rugar....yet another one i didnt know about!....always learning eh?...perhaps one day ill try 4 or 5s.....and nice followup from Randy...now i know why they are called ''HVxx"....its all making perfect sense now..

Tim.

Jeff Boyd 2
12-30-2005, 11:26 PM
Interesting info from one of Rugar's links.

"From Joe Castle Creations using LiPos, BEC disabled, non high voltage ESC

Phoenix ESC, Max cell count, Max amps at max cell count

25 amp, 4SxP, 75% of max rated 18.75 amps

35 amp, 5SxP, 75% of max rated 26.25 amps

45 amp, 5SxP, 75% of max rated 33.75 amps

60 amp, 6SxP, 75% of max rated 45 amps

80 amp, 6SxP, 75% of max rated 60 amps"

Unfortunately, nowhere on the included instructions does it give this information, and it wasn't mentioned by the shop selling them either . . oh well.

Just a thought ? ? . . is the problem actually voltage and not really amps? . . as they mention that with 4S the CC45 is fine at 45A / 60A burst. . .I thought Amps were Amps and don't understand why 5S needs the Amps reduced.

If so, I am expecting 45A Static WOT which is 75% of burst with most of my flying expected to be sub 30A (less than the derated 75%) . . ? ? ? ?


PS. The ESC is going to be mounted at the front inside a "window" cut in the underside front of the cowl. I also planned to cut a square hole in the clear heatshrink over the FETS and have them exposed directly to the good flow of cooling air..

What's your thoughts?

Jeff Boyd 2
12-30-2005, 11:35 PM
Hi Tim, I live at Golden Grove and fly Park Flyers with a friend at a couple of the local parks. More info on his website (here) http://www.users.bigpond.com/webspace/plms_spad&mugi/index.html#Slope_Soaring

Rugar
12-31-2005, 12:10 AM
The way I understand it, is the FETS on the board cant handle the voltage using it at 45amps on 5's. That is why they now have the HV ESC's. The Jetti 70 is lower in price then the HV45 and also weighs less.

Jeff Boyd 2
12-31-2005, 09:44 AM
.

Jeff Boyd 2
12-31-2005, 09:49 AM
Hi Guys, I've been building again . .

PULL/PULL MODIFICATION FOR THE RUDDER
As previously mentioned, the weight of two servos in the tail was going to make this model tail heavy as an electric conversion, so I acquired a neat Dubro Pull/Pull kit from the local HS (Complete Hobbies – Salisbury. Great guys . . ask for Gary) and relocated the Rudder servo up into the fuse.
The Katana had a servo mount already installed in the fuselage for the throttle. As we are not using a glow motor, this mount is obsolete so can be used to mount the rudder servo for the pull/pull cable system.
This mount was fitted to one side of the fuse, so some careful surgery saw it relocated to the center.

Jeff Boyd 2
12-31-2005, 09:54 AM
The Rudder servo was then mounted and a carbon arm made with hole spacings matching the Rudder horn. This arm was then bolted to the standard servo arm and a couple of drops of CA added for good measure.

Update: WOW! . . found this neat aluminum servo arm for the rudder servo. A "JR Type B" arm. This arm is nicely machined with 2 cap heald bolts clamping the machined splines to the servo output shaft. Looks a much more positive arrangement than my fabricated unit.

Jeff Boyd 2
12-31-2005, 10:03 AM
The Elevator servo was then mounted and coupled to check clearance for cables and linkages. With the direct route for the cables “mapped out”, the holes for the cable exits were just drilled through on the correct angle. Luckily these points were located on a ply doubler and the holes were then wicked with CA to make them a little more resistant to wear from the cables.
The cables were then fed through and the linkages set up as per instructions.


Next I will be cutting some cooling holes in the firewall, and making an air outlet toward the rear of the fuse . . STAY TUNED . .

mr.sneezy
01-01-2006, 11:19 PM
Interesting info from one of Rugar's links.

"From Joe Castle Creations using LiPos, BEC disabled, non high voltage ESC

Phoenix ESC, Max cell count, Max amps at max cell count

45 amp, 5SxP, 75% of max rated 33.75 amps



Jeff, a pity they don't say this up front on the user guide.....
Below is the post from CC on the subject.
----------------
Kenny,

With a 45 on 5s or a 60-80 on 6s you will have to de-rate the ESCS by 20%. You cannot run them at their rated capacity at this voltage. At these voltages you are pushing the FETS to their limit. This is why we have the High Voltage line of controllers.

Bernie
---------------
When I get a look at your ESC I'll take down the switching FET part numbers and then hunt down a data sheet. It may well be that they are only rated to a breakdown voltage of 20 or so. My guess is that there is another issue with theses fets during the switching transition, extra cooling may not neccesarily help. Perhaps running it at the lowest selectable PWM frequency may help a bit though.
Martin

watt_the?!
01-01-2006, 11:22 PM
Jeff, a pity they don't say this up front on the user guide.....
Below is the post from CC on the subject.
----------------
Kenny,

With a 45 on 5s or a 60-80 on 6s you will have to de-rate the ESCS by 20%. You cannot run them at their rated capacity at this voltage. At these voltages you are pushing the FETS to their limit. This is why we have the High Voltage line of controllers.

Bernie
---------------
When I get a look at your ESC I'll take down the switching FET part numbers and then hunt down a data sheet. It may well be that they are only rated to a breakdown voltage of 20 or so. My guess is that there is another issue with theses fets during the switching transition, extra cooling may not neccesarily help. Perhaps running it at the lowest selectable PWM frequency may help a bit though.
Martin


oh you da man Martin!....i like!

Tim

Jeff Boyd 2
01-01-2006, 11:44 PM
Thanks Martin, but I already ordered a Hyperion Opto 80 ESC from ACW.

I'll use the Phoenix 45 in something else . . maybe . . http://aircraft-world.com/prod_datasheets/hp/Mustang25/HP-P51-25.htm ???????????

Cheers, Jeff

Jeff Boyd 2
01-10-2006, 08:35 AM
AIR FLOW
As this is an electric conversion from a glow-powered model, the standard airflow is designed for an IC engine. The firewall is sealed to prevent the oily stuff from seeking out the precious electronics, and the cowl is designed to accept airflow at the front, and vent the flow of air from the rear.
The quiet and clean electric power system doesn’t have any of the vices of a glow motor, however there are other considerations. The current draw through the ESC and the loads placed on batteries can generate a fair amount of undesirable heat that can lead to life shortening damage to these items. To help reduce the heat generated, adequate cooling needs to be provided.
On this model, I cut three 1 ¼” diameter holes through the lower firewall to allow airflow over the batteries mounted inside. I also cut an extra hole on the underside of the cowl to allow direct flow over the ESC mounted just inside this “window”.
I then sealed the original air vent from the rear of the cowl with door seal material, to ensure as much of the air flowing into the cowl would pass through the fuselage over the batteries.

Jeff Boyd 2
01-10-2006, 08:42 AM
To ensure airflow over the batteries, I cut an exit vent for the air on the underside of the fuse to roughly match the size of the air inlets. If this weren’t done, the air inside the fuselage would remain fairly static, and would not be assisting with the cooling as desired. Note: If the air exhaust were only half the size of the inlets, the cooling airflow would be roughly half of what it could be (other things have an effect here, but you get the idea?).

Jeff Boyd 2
01-10-2006, 08:53 AM
The model is basically ready to go. A little final detail work, including double checking everything, and it is ready to fly.

The next post will be the fitting of the 4400mAh 5S2P Battery, and the new Hyperion 80 Opto ESC, then some static tests to check battery performance, current draw, and watts . . then we go flying ! ! !

Mike Parsons
01-10-2006, 01:10 PM
Looks great Jeff!

Jeff Boyd 2
01-11-2006, 11:17 PM
Thanks Mike . .

I expect to have some interesting posts to come on this subject. We will be taking some video footage, and a friend and fellow WattFlyer member (Mr. Sneezy) is going to play with his new "ONBOARD" camera. He is also taking delivery of an onboard diagnostic system that will give us realtime flight data on the power systems performance. Should be fun.

Cheers, Jeff.

Jeff Boyd 2
01-13-2006, 12:46 PM
With the kind help of fellow Wattflyer member, Mr. Sneezy, we have wired up the Hyperion 80A Opto ESC and the 6V S-BEC and run some initial tests. Note: With the Hyperion ESC's, when running an external BEC, cut and insulate the "power" wire from the ESC to the Receiver lead (throttle signal lead) as the Receiver/Servos are getting the power via the external BEC plugged into the "battery" connection, and the system doesn't need the extra power supply. Initially we had this connected, and the system was drawing 2.5A with nothing working ! ! ! It also showed at the top end, restricting the perfomance. I expect this scenario to be similar with most ESC's in this configuration???

With the 15 x 8 APC-E we were running 860W at about 54A. While the 5S2P 4400mAh 10C/16C burst Mega Power pack was handling the static thrust without too much trouble, it was pulling the voltage down into the lower 3V per cell (3.1/3.2V) but holding it well. The batteries were only barely warm, and the ESC was cold, so all is looking OK.

I am going to try a 14 x 8 (or maybe a 15 x 4W ? ) to aim for around 750W at about 45A. I think this will be kinder to this particular pack and give me enough performance, bearing in mind the all up weight of the Katana is a reasonable 2.5kg (5.5lbs).

I will be getting a pack of 3700mAh 20C 5S2P and try a 16 x 8 after I have sorted this set-up, hopefully then heading toward 1000W (and reduce the flying weight to 2.44kg).

We expect to test fly next weekend.

Jeff Boyd 2
01-27-2006, 01:25 PM
After finally settling on a CG of 115mm from the LE after some kind assistance from Martin Chitty in the U.K. (father of Stuart, flying the Katana in this amazing clip http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Katana-40-July-05 (http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Katana-40-July-05) ), I finally managed a break to maiden the Katana tonight.

With the help of “Mr. Sneezy” (Martin Sneidze), we performed the mandatory range checks, however this showed up some interference, which manifested itself as quivering around neutral on all surfaces. We fitted a choke to the receiver wire from the BEC and this improved the situation, however Martin is still not totally satisfied and wants to do some more experimenting. That’s OK by me. Nothing wrong with a bulletproof set-up.

The moment had arrived. It was a bit breezy, but I couldn’t wait any longer. We pointed her into the breeze and powered up. After a reasonably short run, it was airborne and climbing out with authority. A few clicks of up trim, and two clicks of left aileron and it was flying straight.

A couple of circuits of the park to feel her out, a couple of loops, rolls and inverted (which only required the slightest push of down elevator), and I thought I’d bring her in to check everything. The landing was a non-event . . she just breezed in for a slight flair into a greeeeezer of a landing . . beautiful.

The motor, ESC, and batteries were all ambient, so all looked fine.

On the second flight, the take-off run was shorter, then pulled into a vertical climb. . and accelerated. The Hyperion HP-Z4025-12 with the 15 x 8 APC prop at 860W had impressive performance straight up. A bit more spirited flying showed an increased level of confidence, and I felt it was time to try out it’s low speed handling. It slows down to the point where it just floats around while still having a great deal of control. A low Harrier fly by before another silky smooth landing . . this thing flies fantastic.

The light was fading rapidly now, so we called it a day with much satisfaction.

We will get some video footage soon . . .stay tuned ! ! !

Mike Parsons
01-27-2006, 02:35 PM
Awesome! Congrat's Jeff. Look forward to some future video :)

bird-0f-prey
02-09-2006, 10:50 AM
bring on the video jeff.

I enjoyed reading you build thread give me a call next time you go out

Kingsley

Jeff Boyd 2
02-09-2006, 11:21 AM
Hey Kingsley . . How you doin'

The video's coming. Lack of time combined with relentless wind lately has slowed it up a bit. We are planning on doing a neat editing job that cuts from a ground shots to relative on-board video . . hopefully this weekend.

Cheers, Jeff.

Son of Paleface
02-10-2006, 09:12 AM
Good work Jeff , a nice neat build post , well done :cool:.......wish I could get my act together to do some of my "projects" ;):D
Ian

Jeff Boyd 2
02-12-2006, 10:28 AM
Thanks, Ian.

Flew it again today. We had a data logger plugged into one half of the 4400mAh 5S2P pack (has 2 packs of 2200mAh 5S1P with a tandem connector . . we would have to multiply the data by two to get true figures).
Unfortunately the data logger appears to create some sort of resistance making the ESC draw on the unrestricted pack (we think . .) and we had the whole flight running on only one pack. I thought the performance felt a liitle subdued. Went to take off for a second flight and the ESC voltage cut-off activated just as she was getting light . . PHEW!
When we checked it out, one pack had used just over 1900mAh, and the other only 105mAh . . could have been nasty.

Do we ever stop learning in this game ? ? ? ?

Jeff Boyd 2
07-28-2006, 02:16 AM
Just thought I'd let all interested know that I have been having major glitching / interference problems with my set-up, so have been unable to progress with the planned on-board video, etc . . however the problem appears to be solved.

I had tried nearly everything to eliminate the glitching, and get a half decent range check.

I was using a JR R700 Single Conversion receiver and had tried different receivers before with varying results, however I have just replaced it with a JR RS10DS Dual conversion, SPCM, Synthesized frequency scanning Rx . . Rock solid range check . . no erratic, quivering . . no crazy glitching, so I am looking forward to some relaxed flying this weekend ! !

Further info and details at this thread http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5282

Mike Parsons
07-28-2006, 02:51 AM
Glad you got it figured out Jeff. I am with you...I have a kitchen pass this weekend and am going to spend it out at the field :)