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View Full Version : SHV needed now!


Larry3215
05-12-2008, 06:20 AM
Hi guys,

Ok, Im ready for the SHV controllers to be released.

Im switching over to A123 cells on all my larger birds and I need an SHV controller to keep the same performance at the same weight.

If I go to 18S1P A123 cells I can get about the same flight time at about the same power and the same weight as the 12S1P 5000 pack Im flying now.

The issue of course is that the resting voltage on the A123 pack is well above the max voltage on the HV controllers even though the under load running voltage would be well within spec.

I need one thats good to 70+ volts or so at around 75-80 amps and I'll be perfectly happy :D

Thanks!

Larry

Larry3215
05-13-2008, 06:46 AM
By the way, if you need my mailing address I'd be happy to PM it to someone.

Heck, Id even be willing to pay for the thing ;)

Larry

Larry3215
05-14-2008, 04:58 AM
Not to give this thread a shameless bump or anything, but here are some more detailed numbers that show why I need an SHV controller for my 30% Yak conversion.

At the moment, my best lipo pack for this plane is a 12S1P 5000 Enerland pack. It weighs about 1558 gms and I get right around 3200 wats hot off the charger at about 72 amps or so.

My typical flight uses between 2000-2500 mahr for about a 7-9 minute flight.

If I assume around 3.5 volts per cell average under load that gives me 12x3.5x2.0 = 84 watt hours up to 12x3.5x2.5 = 105 watt hours. So I need between 84 and 105 watt hours to have the same flight time and average power usage as Im getting now.

It turns out an 18S1P A123 pack would weigh about 1590 gms or about 1oz more than the 12S lipo pack which is close enough.

If I prop for around 2.6 volts per cell average on the A123 cells, that gives me 18x2.6x2.0 = 93.6 watt hours. Thats right in the middle of the range I have been flying at. I dont like flying more than 2000 mahr out of the A123 packs because I like a little reserve for go arounds etc.

If I prop it accordinly that should also give me 18x2.5x70 = 3150 watts or very close to the same peak power I have now.


The problem of course is that the voltage of the A123 pack when it comes off the chager is way over the max voltage on the HV series ESCs.

18 x 3.6 = 64.8 volts.

Thats even higher than the Kontronic Power Jazz can handle - 63 volts.

So....

I am ready for an SHV any time now :D

Larry

Larry3215
05-15-2008, 07:09 PM
Just saw this on RCG - Anyone who is serious about wanting an SHV controller send an e-mail to Lee at Castle.

They should be ready to ship soon - maybe this week - but they are not doing a general production run because they dont think there is enough demand.

So if you want one e-mail Lee.

lee@castlecreations.com

Larry

rcers
05-15-2008, 07:27 PM
Save your nickles Larry - that dude is going to set you back a weeks allowance - at least!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=820139

Jeti/Hacker is working on one too.... also a bit pricey!
http://www.westlondonmodels.com/product2443/Hacker-Spin-200-opto/
~$661....

Don't know the specs (max voltage on that one yet) but I would guess 15s or so.....


Mike

Larry3215
05-15-2008, 07:32 PM
True - BUT here is another way to look at it.

To replace the lipo pack Im using now will cost me about $650. The price on these cells has come down some lately.

I can build an 18S1P A123 pack for $320 or so even at the higher A123 prices.

That leaves me $330 to put towards the new controller :D

Larry

P.S. Do you think my wife will buy that argument? ;)

rcers
05-15-2008, 07:43 PM
That leaves me $330 to put towards the new controller :D

Larry

P.S. Do you think my wife will buy that argument? ;)

Go with it my friend - go with it....

You actually bring an interesting discussion point - and one that I have been surprised that more modelers have not picked up on. While I understand there are many 1-2lb models that fly very well on "high" 3s voltages :) .... Many have not discovered that same fact when dealing with a bit larger model.

I recently did a review on a 60 size glow plane (8lb) that used 4s and a HOT motor. I talked to the distributor and he was "thinking" like a glow guy. Spin a smallish propeller fast. Did the plane fly - you bet - in fact it flew well, but it drew over 70 amps.

I said - lets go to 6s (or 8s 123's) and use a LOW KV motor and a larger prop. Now I am at under 50 amps and the plane flies better - much better.

I am slowly adopting that on smaller models too. 4s LiPoly and 4s a123's - lower KV and AMPs and all the power you need.

Volts are magic - just like amps. Increase volts drop amps and have a great time.

:)

So I applaud your efforts!

:)

Larry3215
05-15-2008, 07:45 PM
By the way the Jeti, which is waay expensive - wont work for me. It only goes to 14S lipos or 59 volts.

The Kontronic Power Jazz goes to 63 volts.

I need 67 volts minimum and 78 would be better. The new Castle controllers are supposed to be good to 20S lipo or 84 volts.

Larry

Larry3215
05-15-2008, 07:49 PM
Go with it my friend - go with it....

You actually bring an interesting discussion point - and one that I have been surprised that more modelers have not picked up on. While I understand there are many 1-2lb models that fly very well on "high" 3s voltages :) .... Many have not discovered that same fact when dealing with a bit larger model.

I recently did a review on a 60 size glow plane (8lb) that used 4s and a HOT motor. I talked to the distributor and he was "thinking" like a glow guy. Spin a smallish propeller fast. Did the plane fly - you bet - in fact it flew well, but it drew over 70 amps.

I said - lets go to 6s (or 8s 123's) and use a LOW KV motor and a larger prop. Now I am at under 50 amps and the plane flies better - much better.

I am slowly adopting that on smaller models too. 4s LiPoly and 4s a123's - lower KV and AMPs and all the power you need.

Volts are magic - just like amps. Increase volts drop amps and have a great time.

:)

So I applaud your efforts!

:)

Exactly my thinking. With the A123 cells you get even more benifits in addition to the hi voltage low amps.

They cost less
They dont blow up
They cost less
They charge very very fast
They cost less
They last a lot longer than lipos
They cost less
and finally...
They cost less :D

With the right combination of cells and load you dont even have the weight penalty to deal with.

Larry

rcers
05-15-2008, 07:52 PM
Yep now all we need is an RC source so we don't' have to take DeWalt packs apart to get cheap packs assembled....

Larry3215
05-15-2008, 07:57 PM
There are some available now - I'll post some links later... have to get some real work done :)

Larry

FlyingMonkey
05-15-2008, 08:02 PM
The guys over at All Things That Fly (http://allthingsthatfly.com/) have been talking about these batteries for some time. JustPlaneChris (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=72701) is using them to power at least one of his helicopters.

Larry3215
05-16-2008, 02:32 AM
Places to get A123 cells.

Pete at Model Electronics sells packs in his Power Tubes and loose cells. His prices are about the best at the moment.

http://www.modelelectronicscorp.com/

Battle Packs also has packs and loose cells. He is also starting to carry the new K2 cells that seem like they may be an alternate to the A123 cells. Not much data on them yet as far as long life and how well they hold up to fast charging.

http://www.battlepack.com/A123.asp

Tanic makes packs and sells loose cells.

https://www.tanicpacks.com/index.php?cPath=111_120&osCsid=0a911101506926a763688d5732a5acff


Aircraft World also has cells and pack making parts etc.

http://www.aircraft-world.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?search=yes


About the cheepest Ive seen the Dewalt packs on E-Bay recently was around $140 for a pack which is not much of a deal.

I believe there are other sources for A123 cells but those are the major ones I know of.

Larry

Larry3215
05-20-2008, 04:29 AM
Some info copied from RCG.

I AM going to need a couple of nickels at least!

SHV communication

Guys, do me a big favor and use your real names. I get AVATARS here and emails elsewhere with no names. Why the secrecy? Very hard to do business or communicate this way.

SHV Compact controllers:
PHOENIX 45 SHV COMPACT 010-0047-00 45A 90V NO BEC $299.00
PHOENIX 85 SHV COMPACT 010-0048-00 85A 90V NO BEC $399.00
PHOENIX 110 SHV COMPACT 010-0044-00 110A 90V NO BEC $499.00

This isn't a conspiracy, we welcome your business.

The size is about 3/8" longer than the normal HV controller of the corresponding capacity. Weight is similar too. I don't have them in front of me to weigh or photograph. Looks like that they may be in production next week, but you never know until we get them done.

All SHV compact controllers have an anti-spark circuit that eliminates the arcing on power connection.

Operating software is very similar to Phoenix HV, just a different beep to indicate the cell count. Nobody wants the things beeping 20 times.

Lee

and


<table border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px inset ;" class="alt2"> Originally Posted by ozace
This looks promising. Lee do Castle have specs on how fast these things can spin a motor ? If we move up to higher voltages with high pole outrunners will these controllers be able to cope ?.
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

No, I don't have that info. I think the limits will be imposed more by the motor's redline than the processing on our controllers.

You will need to find very low KV motors to make best use of these things. Like everything else in electrics, the controllers are just one part in the system. Changing one usually requires changing everything else too.

Lee

Joe Ford
05-23-2008, 03:12 AM
And if you need the SHV250 it's $599.00...22,500W of juice for the largest of applications. :)

Larry3215
05-23-2008, 05:12 AM
Wait Joe - your marketing department has made a serious error!

There should be a much larger price difference between the SHV250 and the lesser units. The SHV250 needs to standout as a PREMIUM controller.

Therefore, the other SHV's should all be reduced in price by at least $100 each.

Please feel free to pass this free advice along to them with my compliments :D

Larry

Joe Ford
05-30-2008, 01:38 AM
Our closest competition on the SHV250 (20s @ 250A...22,500W) is the Jeti Spin 200...15s @ 200A (12,600W) and it's $547.80 @ Tower...the Spin 300 (15s @ 300A...total of 18,900W) is not being distributed right now, but it's cost would easily be over $599.00. ;)

Larry3215
05-30-2008, 03:13 AM
Thanks for the assistance with passing on the note to Lee.

We are now in touch :)

Larry

Larry3215
05-30-2008, 07:22 PM
I got an e-mail from Lee at Castle that they are taking orders now although the controllers are not built yet.

If you want one, you need to call Christy at Castle Creations to put an order in.
913 390 6939. ext 116

Christy says they are just starting to build them but it could take 3 weeks to get delivery.

You will NOT be charged untill they ship.

Cant wait!

everydayflyer
05-31-2008, 01:59 AM
OT
FWIW the K2 LFP26650P cells are looking good at up to 40-45 amps.Cont. with 50-55 amps. burst.

Still very early in testing but they seem to be handling 4C charge rate just fine.

Charles

Larry3215
05-31-2008, 06:52 AM
Once again Charles, thanks for doing the testing and passing along the feed back!

Ive been following your test results and they do look pretty good. I think the smaller 1250 mahr cells look pretty promising as well.

Im especially glad to see A123 getting some tough competition. I like haveing choices :)