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frvrngn
01-03-2006, 07:24 PM
I have an odd question. I have never flown with a rudder before. My first plane was a Slo-V and from then on, all wings from a little 26" up to a 48" 70mph brushless setup. I got a Slow Stick as a Christmas gift and I was going to throw my brushless setup from my dead Slo-V onto it. It occured to me than that I have never had a plane with a rudder before! All my planes have been a bank and yank flyer. I found a Slow Stick and a Easystar model for FMS to play with, but they both fly "odd". Meaning, when I want to turn the model makes a flat pivot to the direction I want to turn and then verrrry slowly tips a wing down and will turn. Are they really that slow reacting? The videos I have watched of SS and EZ*'s look to fly really well without that weird flat pivot and long stall before actually turning. My field isnt all that large, which is why I like the bank and yank turn radius of my wings. I wanted a plane that I could relax with flying and everybody raves about the SS so I asked for one for Christmas. I have a feeling its going to fly fine, but wanted to ask to make sure I wasnt missing something obvious. I do know that I have to remember to turn off the Elevon mixing before sending her up!

rcers
01-03-2006, 07:35 PM
Hmmm Rudders.....

Essential flight control - well not really, you can fly without it. But you might become a better pilot if you learn about using it more.

Rudder reaction on different planes will be well, different.

Some truely only yaw the plane (turn on the yaw access) but they don't induce any roll. That is a very good thing for aerobatic planes because now you have honest 3 pitch control, roll pitch and yaw.

Other planes will induce yaw and roll, most trainers to this. Helpful as then you can add the elevator necessary to complete or continue the turn.

Yet other planes will reward you will adverse yaw - they will yaw in the wrong direction! I have had planes with this characteristic. Quite strange.

Overall the rudder is very useful when landing especially in a crosswind. You use the ailerons to keep the wing level and then rudder to keep the heading correct, or to kick the tail at the last minute to reduce the sideslip.

Some rudders (like on acrobat's) won't do a thing to "turn" the airplane, and you must use ailerons. This has to do with many factors like wing dihedral, polyhedral and anhedral. Length of the tail and size and position of the rudder also greatly affect "turning".

With the slow stick understand that it will both yaw and start to induce roll. Set it up with as much rudder as you can, as it takes a while to get that large wing turned.

Keep with the rudder it is your friend!

Mike

watt_the?!
01-03-2006, 09:04 PM
good advice Mike..

i wonder, frvngn, are you going to set up your rudder on to the aileron channel?

this has many advantages for a R/E/T model. You can fly like yank and bank, and use your mixing then also.

you wouldnt even know that you are banking with rudder and not aileron.

Tim.

rcers
01-03-2006, 09:05 PM
Yep what Tim said.

If you only use rudder for control you put it on the aileron stick.

Mike

frvrngn
01-03-2006, 10:32 PM
It'll be on my aileron stick - my only radio is a Neon FM :o I need to eventually get a better radio, but the little 3ch works just perfect for my wings which is what I fly 95% of the time.

My BL Slowstick is almost ready to go. Just need to set my CG and finalize the throws. If the weatherman is right, tomorrow will be perfect to maiden. Looking forward to a little more laid back flights soon!

E-Challenged
01-04-2006, 04:00 PM
I have flown rudder-only years ago and many small 3-channel scale models. You must have sufficient dihedral to induce a banking turn with rudder. A friend recently tried to fly a Sig Fokker D-VII without adding any dihedral. It would slowly bank and yaw but resisted turning at all. For your SS, you may want to try connecting the wing tips with fish line and adjusting dihedral to get better turning as we did with Litesticks. You could mod the wing mounts using formed brass tubing etc to get proper dihedral angles.

frvrngn
01-04-2006, 06:35 PM
I posted part of this under my Slo-V problems from before, but also wanted to post here (sorry!).

Well, the cheap Tower Pro brushless setup makes the Slow Stick fly wonferfully! Just maidened her a little while ago in not so friendly winds. Steady 5-10mph with 15mph gusts. It's a beautiful blue sky day out and 55 degrees so I couldnt resist. I got the CG spot on and checked all throws (they are a little more than recommended, but again I couldnt resist flying today). Went to my little field next door that has a nice smooth clay driveway. The wind was blowing across the drive so I setup straight into the wind with only about 15feet max room before tall grass. I only needed about a 1/3 :) Took off in 5 feet and climbed steady nearly straight up! The wind was knocking the plane around quite a bit but was still controllable. I had plenty of power going up wind and turning back downwind at full throttle the Slow Stick wasnt so slow! I even took her up around 200ft and killed the throttle to just float on the winds. Flew around 10mins since it was getting blown around quite a bit. Upon landing the motor, esc and batt were still cold. I tried a 10x4.7 with my 9 cell CBP 750's today. Full setup is now a Tower Pro BM-08 outrunner, TP 15A esc, TP 9g servos, 555rx, and various CBP batts. Standard buildup except I used better tape all around and epoxied the dihedral wing rods and partially filled the center wing gap with Gorilla Glue. Count me in as another Slow Stick convert! Flying with the rudder felt just fine, btw. Once the winds calm down I will try and fine trim her out, but so far so good!

Rugar
01-04-2006, 06:41 PM
I have flown rudder-only years ago and many small 3-channel scale models. You must have sufficient dihedral to induce a banking turn with rudder. A friend recently tried to fly a Sig Fokker D-VII without adding any dihedral. It would slowly bank and yaw but resisted turning at all. For your SS, you may want to try connecting the wing tips with fish line and adjusting dihedral to get better turning as we did with Litesticks. You could mod the wing mounts using formed brass tubing etc to get proper dihedral angles.

A Slow Stick has more then enough dihedral already built in.

AEAJR
01-05-2006, 12:38 AM
I have an odd question. I have never flown with a rudder before. My first plane was a Slo-V and from then on, all wings from a little 26" up to a 48" 70mph brushless setup. I got a Slow Stick as a Christmas gift and I was going to throw my brushless setup from my dead Slo-V onto it. It occured to me than that I have never had a plane with a rudder before! All my planes have been a bank and yank flyer. I found a Slow Stick and a Easystar model for FMS to play with, but they both fly "odd". Meaning, when I want to turn the model makes a flat pivot to the direction I want to turn and then verrrry slowly tips a wing down and will turn. Are they really that slow reacting? The videos I have watched of SS and EZ*'s look to fly really well without that weird flat pivot and long stall before actually turning. My field isnt all that large, which is why I like the bank and yank turn radius of my wings. I wanted a plane that I could relax with flying and everybody raves about the SS so I asked for one for Christmas. I have a feeling its going to fly fine, but wanted to ask to make sure I wasnt missing something obvious. I do know that I have to remember to turn off the Elevon mixing before sending her up!

ParkZone Slo-V is a rudder/elevator plane, unless you modified the wing. The V-tail provides rudder and elevator functions.

Slow Stick will have similar flight characteristics to a Slo-V which means it turns and banks though a coupling of yaw from the rudder with dihedral of the wing.

Yaw presents one wing to the oncoming air. This causes the wing to lift and bank the plane. This is the basis of most 3 chanel parkflyers as well as two channel gliders. Very good for trainer as they tend to be highly self leveling and very stable. Not as aerobatic as an aileron plane.

frvrngn
01-05-2006, 12:47 AM
WIth the way the V-Tail works, it appeared to give a lot more deflection along the roll axis like an aileron vs. a vertical rudder. Either way, they both fly fine. Definately not as aerobatic as my wings with just elevons, but thats not what I wanted out of the plane. I wanted a nice flyer that I could relax with when i get tired of keeping one of my wings in the field and out of the trees while zipping by at 60+ mph! So far, the Slow Stick looks like it will definately live up to its rep as just the plane I was looking for!

AEAJR
01-05-2006, 01:05 AM
A vtail may induce roll on its own more than a standard tail, but you are still using a rudder type yaw function. If you look more closely, the V tails move in the opposite direction you would expect ailerons to move. That is because you are inducing Yaw through the coordinated efforts of the two ruddervators ( rudder elevator - like elevon for elevator aileron) .

Very peopular on sailplanes as well as parkflyers. Have not see too many V tails on glow planes except scale models of the Bonanza.

meatball
01-05-2006, 01:51 AM
If you like an aft CG V-tails can cause some planes to flatspin in turns when you get on it good.