Any hope out there for Mac users?

[Steve]

And please....don't suggest using virtual PC...it sucks.

[ForestCam]

I gave up all hope for Mac users years ago.:p

[Slent thndr]

:D You mac people just need to accept the PC domination and get over it. Macs are pathetic.:p

[Steve]

It's true. I would have more time on my hands if I was still using a PC..... waiting for it to reboot after the blue screen of death :eek: :( :rolleyes: :D

For 99.9% of the stuff I need to do the Mac is awesome....for the other .01 it sucks. Problem in that .01 involves a decent flight sim!:(

I might just have to sneak some time on PC's at work. I expect my first heli in a few days and I'm sure I'll need the practice.

[Rat]

The problem is that Mac is like betamax was when it came out. It was supposed to be the next best thing since sliced bread but it died. Same for Mac. Witht he majority of the population using PC I do not see anyone ever developing a sim for Mac since PC is a much larger group.

PC is the way of the future so it is time to step up and join the masses.



What is this blue screen of death thing. I have had a PC for 5 years (actually the one I am on now was purchased in 2001) and I have never seen this blue screen problem. If I do shut it down it takes a min to boot up.

[Steve]

Well...I have my reasons for using a Mac and not a PC. Mostly related to my photographic and design pursuits as well as a small fortune invested in software.

I've used PC's since they've been in existence, so I have a bit of perspective and I'm capable of sorting out the pro's and con's.

I'm sure you're right...we'll never see a sim produced for the Mac ;-(

[ForestCam]

Check the classifieds for an older PC. I've seen sub GHz complete setups for around $100 and that would run most sims just fine. Probably cheaper then buying the software for the Mac if it were available.:D

[Slent thndr]

The whole 'blue screen of death' thing was a problem with windows 95 and maybe 98... the term came from back in the DOS days though I think... Anyway, since XP came out the only problems are with hardware. In which case Macs probably have the same problem, except that there are of course less options for Mac users hardware wise therefore less compatibility issues.

[Slent thndr]

The best sim out there is Real Flight G3... but your going to need a serious PC to run it. Minimum is like a 3.4 Ghz P4, 1GB memory (DDR2 or something), and a good graphics card with at least 256 MB onboard.

P.S.
Yeah I agree, that whole 'virtual PC' thing never really worked

[ForestCam]

Anyway, since XP came out the only problems are with hardware.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....thud

[mrTrout]

pc's suck...

check out this heli sim:
http://www.alphamacsoftware.com/index.php

it's minimal, but superficial...
:)

[paddyH]

Have a look at X-Plane, not an RC sim as such, but the physics are good and you can fly from a fixed point on the ground

http://www.x-plane.com/

hey, and let's leave the PC/Mac war alone eh? We all know macs are better ;)

[onrecess]

Mac is going out of the software business soon. I'll personally guarantee within 5 years (could be much-much less) Macs will run on Windows (probably with a superficial GUI for old mac fans).
I wouldn't be surprised if the next release of the Windows OS includes the news macs are no longer cripples (they will run on Windows only- just like real computers).
You heard it here first!
:cool:

[Steve]

Oh...yeah...I heard George W is going to balance the budget in the next 12 months and that there's an alien species of monkey that was just discovered that they can prove came from Pluto!

I have xplane and it's relatively useless as an RC sim. Pretty cool if you want to fly a 747 though!

[paddyH]

OK, so all mac users on this forum should email Austin Meyer and insist he fills this gap in our lives.

Another thought? Sims are OK but not as good as the real thing (IMO) just get 3 mistakes high, try that rolling circle, or knife edge circuit. Just remember to go for more height once you've made 2 mistakes

[rca]

I've been in the PC/Mac/Network support industry for about 16 years. The one thing I can say about the Mac is it has about a loyal a following as you can find. Warranted or not, don't try to take a Mac user's Mac from him or you might lose an arm.

I know they are just great for all your artsy graphics work, but they suck in the network. I have had more crazy issues with Macs on a network than any other single piece of gear I have ever supported. Here's a short example.

About 4 years ago I was installing a bunch of new switches at a school. The school had a bunch of Macs that the kids used. When we put the new switches in we had a bunch of Apple printers on the network that we got rid of, they were old. For some reason a bunch of the Macs would keep these printers as their primary printer. You couldn't get rid of them, even if you deleted them, they would pop back up. Apples solution was to turn off every piece of equipment in the network, everything. Even the PC's, switches and routers, which of course were not running anything related to the Apple. Amazingly this fixed the problem, but do you know how hard it was to find every piece of equipment on a school network? It took 3 tries.

Also interesting that the Mac OS X looks much like Linux and Apple is now building their systems with Intel chips.

Macs users are sort of like democrats. The think they are superior and look down at all others, their software (ideas) costs too much to support and doesn't really work any better, they don't realize they have been passed by and are not the majority, and they just don't live in the real world. Funny that Rush Limbaugh is a huge Mac fan.

I'm poking fun here, so don't take this personally. I just can't resist stirring up Mac users and watching them go. I think I'll go fly one of my 2 flight sims now.

[Steve]

I hope you're wrong about Rush....that might be the one thing that drives Mac users to the PC :D

From a general users point of view the Mac OS is far more user friendly and the OS comes bundled with some very powerful apps at "no charge".

I'm a photographer not a network admin, so obviously I have different needs from my computer.

Hopefully the Mac won't go the way of the Volvo when they integrate the Intel chip. You're right...it just might destroy the line altogether, OR it might evolve into something you've never seen before and YOU'LL switch over! :eek:

That's where great design triumphs everytime.

Sure wish I could run FMS though:o

Have you seen any good sales on PC's lately? ;)

[rca]

I hope you're wrong about Rush....that might be the one thing that drives Mac users to the PC :D

From a general users point of view the Mac OS is far more user friendly and the OS comes bundled with some very powerful apps at "no charge".

I'm a photographer not a network admin, so obviously I have different needs from my computer.

Hopefully the Mac won't go the way of the Volvo when they integrate the Intel chip. You're right...it just might destroy the line altogether, OR it might evolve into something you've never seen before and YOU'LL switch over! :eek:

That's where great design triumphs everytime.

Sure wish I could run FMS though:o

Have you seen any good sales on PC's lately? ;)
There are always good sales on PCs, which is what we call competition. You can get a pretty nice Dell with a monitor for $299. I normally build my own PCs so if I wait for a motherboard/CPU combo at Fry's I can build a pretty nice one for $200, or maybe a little less. I also use AMD chips primarily, becuase I consider them to be as good as Intel but a better value.

That's my main problem with the Mac, it is a closed system so there is no competition so the price stays high. That and I don't like all the "user friendly" aspects of it. I'm pretty good with computers so the Macs "user friendly" features make me feel like I'm wasting time, I don't want all that "friendliness." Personal preference, I know.

But honestly, aren't the graphics programs for the PC just as good as the ones for the Mac now? I would think that Photoshop for the PC would have the largest user base in the graphics industry.

I think the issue you see with a flight sim for the Mac is what I was trying to point out. There just isn't a big enough user base to warrant development of a simulator. That and it costs more to develop for the Mac, so the perceived benefit is smaller and the cost is higher.

You'll just have to COME TO THE DARK SIDE!!!!!

P.S. - I always love to throw that in about Rush.

[onrecess]

I'm trying to tell you, when the intel chip goes in- the mac bs goes out. Mac will become just another pc, albeit one with a "macish" GUI pasted in.
Hide and watch.
Don't forget- you heard it here first!
By the way, macs users are like republicans:
The supposed benefits of their programs really only apply to a select few.
A lot of foolish people buy in thinking it somehow benefits them.
They spend huge amounts of money on crap.
They use torture, er, torturous reasoning to justify their excesses.
Facts don't influence their decisions, only blind following.
See? It isn't a surprise rush is a dopehea, uh, a mac user.
=)

[rca]

I have to resist commenting, our the mod will move this thread to the Off Topic forum.

So to stay on topic, there are no good RC simulators for the Mac.

Now back to your points, I do think you are wrong on the Mac bs going out. I think when Intel goes in it just becomes are really expensive PC. Here's a question though, do they rename the Mac when it gets an Intel chip? Here are some suggestions in the Macintosh Apple theme:

Granny Smintel
Fujintel
Golden Delintel
Crispintel
Macintel
InteliMac

My sad attempt at humor, please forgive me.


Facts don't influence their decisions, only blind following.
=)

Your facts are a bit off on this though, it's Democrats who don't let facts influence them as long as they FEEL good about what they are doing, whether they make a difference or not. Much like Mac uses FEEL good about their Macs and blindly keep buying.

[TexasRCFlyer]

I will tell you first hand, I have an iMac with dual 2.0 Ghz Intel chips. It dual boots in Win and Mac. I only boot in Windows to run a sim or VPN into the office. When I do run Windows, it is a Windows PC, through and through, except alot faster. My buddy has a Dell XPS, about $3500 in it, I have an iMac, 2 Gig RAM, 500 Gig HD, 20 inch monitor, Dual 2.0 Ghz Intel chips, it only cost about $2500 with Applecare. When I boot in Windows, I can run circles around his XPS with processing speed. No hourglass or spinning circles for me:). Anyways, this is on topic, the only way I know to run a good sim on the Mac is to get one with Intel Chips.

[flieslikeabeagle]

Any hope for Mac users? Not from a commercial simulator, but the free (and Free) CRRCSIM runs on Mac OSX. I think the free (and Free) Slope Soaring Simulator also does.

I have not used SSS, but I've used CRRCSIM on Linux, and it is not half bad - the flight physics is excellent, IMHO. I don't do 3D and cannot speak to how well suited this sim is for hovering and doing other things that airplanes really should not be doing, though. :)

The graphics in CRRCSIM are a little better than FMS, but not much; the collision detection is terrible, but most of us want to fly or learn to fly, not to crash as realistically as possible.

Links:

Slope Soaring Simulator (SSS): http://www.rowlhouse.co.uk/sss (http://www.rowlhouse.co.uk/sss/)

Charles River Radio Control Simulator (CRRCSIM): http://crrcsim.sourceforge.net/wiki/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/crrcsim/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/crrcsim/

-Flieslikeabeagle

Edit: here's a CRRCSIM screenshot:

[singlestick]

from my experience, most PC users are too busy putting down the mac and mac users to know what they are talking about.

We mac users pay a price for our non-conformance, and we do it happily. The fact that we won't conform to the PC norm while expecting and usually getting more from our computers is beyond most PC users.

No I haven't found a R/C good flight simulator either. There are several good full size aircraft simulators.

Forget the R/C simulator... go outside and do some real flying. Interact with a living breathing instructor pilot if you need one. Let the PC bigots have their R/C simulators that they can only fly from their desk bound Mac simulators. :)

Cheers.

[pilotpete2]

Singlestick,
Do I take it that you also fly with a single stick Tx? talk about nonconformity:D, just kidding, actually I've always wanted to try one:cool:
As a PC user, and being retired from field support in a PC only environment I try to see both sides, but one thing I totally agree with you on "Forget the R/C simulator... go outside and do some real flying. Interact with a living breathing instructor pilot if you need one." We spent to much time in front of our monitors, and I'm as guilty as charged:p
Cheers,
Pete

[singlestick]

Singlestick,
Do I take it that you also fly with a single stick Tx? talk about nonconformity:D, just kidding, actually I've always wanted to try one:cool:
As a PC user, and being retired from field support in a PC only environment I try to see both sides, but one thing I totally agree with you on "Forget the R/C simulator... go outside and do some real flying. Interact with a living breathing instructor pilot if you need one." We spent to much time in front of our monitors, and I'm as guilty as charged:p
Cheers,
Pete



Pete... :)

Yes indeed I do have several goldstickered single-stick radios, of which one is left handed, two I haven't flown yet are in the ham band.

I use a mac and a Dvorak keyboard mapping... No Qwerty keyboard for me AND I build my own airplanes. ARF has limited appeal for me. Non-conformance is one of my ways of staying on the fringe of the Lemmings. Sometimes I do non-conformance just to be different, sometimes I do it because it is better. The dvorak keyboard has eliminated my wrist pain and forced me to learn touch typing... (I do use VHS, which after twenty some odd years has improved to the point that the VHS/Beta argument is moot.)

Back to the topic... I recently tried the CRRCSIM program on my Mac and it works acceptably for a free program. While it its a glider slope/thermal simulator, it does have a few power planes in the hanger. My kids love it and it works well with my TopGun Thrustmaster three-axis (there is that single stick action again!) USB control stick. The program does not remember the control stick calibrations however.

I recall seeing another glider simulator, I don't recall the url, perhaps a french website, that required that it be compiled in the mac unix environment. I don't have the time to experiment with the mac unix compilers yet.

Singlestick

[wildman66]

Interesting. My new Mac can boot as Windows XP or Mac OS. I run the latest version of G3 with no slowdowns or glitches. When I am done flying the simulator, I reboot as a Mac.

IBM stands for "I've been misled" or "I wished I'd bought a Macintosh":D

[TexasRCFlyer]

Interesting. My new Mac can boot as Windows XP or Mac OS. I run the latest version of G3 with no slowdowns or glitches. When I am done flying the simulator, I reboot as a Mac.

IBM stands for "I've been misled" or "I wished I'd bought a Macintosh":D

EXACTLY!
Which Mac do you have, I just got the iMac and love it.

[Menthol]

I am running FMS on my MacbookPRO after installing bootcamp and XPpro.

[Team_Orion_Avionics]

I run Windows XP and FSOne on my MacBook Pro at full everything and it works flawlessly. I only run Windows XP when running the Sim or Solidworks. I won't go into detail why I do everything else on the Mac. Let's just say I have been using both PC's and Macs professionally for over 12 years and I make my decision based personal experience. Given the choice in the past to run a PC or not have flight Sim I chose to not run a Sim as it would be less frustrating and finacially less taxing.

PC's are great for most people their just not my preference.

[pubwvj]

I use XPlane ( http://x-plane.com ) on the Macintosh. It's an excellent flight simulator with extreme realism in the physics as well as good scenery. There are a few R/C models for XPlane. I wish that RealFlight worked under MacOS X so that rebooting to Windows was not necessary. Royal pain and it means given a choice of XPlane or RealFlight, I go with XPlane.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/

[GallopingGhost]

No!
Ok its like this MAC lies to its customers and they follow and support the lies like the religious zealots they are. Remimber when Mac was advertising their 2ghz IBM chip was faster than a 3ghz Intel? The zealots all said yes we believe! Then Mac switched to Intel and they all got quiet.....

[pubwvj]

Huh? I report my experience and preference and you go into flame mode. Interesting. You've definitely got issues and they have nothing to do with flying or what computer you're using.

[TexasRCFlyer]

Hey galloping ghost, would you elaborate, its a little off topic but I would like to hear what you have to say. Are you calling mac users, religious zealots?? Mac 2ghz is way faster on benchmarks than the 3ghz PCs, but it wasnt because of the intel chips, it was because of the Mac OS vs Win OS, not processor. Before you start name calling, at least get your facts straight.

[alex242]

I rather ride my fine Jaguar than overcharged-super-gates-do-it-all-cars. Its a matter of taste.

I run RFG3 and Aerofly Pro Deluxe on my Intel Imac. Smooth and nice

[blueapplepaste]

No!
Ok its like this MAC lies to its customers and they follow and support the lies like the religious zealots they are. Remimber when Mac was advertising their 2ghz IBM chip was faster than a 3ghz Intel? The zealots all said yes we believe! Then Mac switched to Intel and they all got quiet.....

Wait wait wait...oh that's right because they were faster!

http://www.barefeats.com/macvpc.html

As someone else said; check your facts. Now that Apple has switched to Intel that makes them even better; now they can run windoze and OSX. So it can do everything your PC can do plus more!:cool:

[banjeff]

I have Imac and have used CRRCSIM to learn to fly successfully. I used Flexifly XLM as trainer plane and I think learned joystick work pretty well: as a beginner I was able to successfully fly (for 10 minutes) and land a friend's Slow Stick several times in an 8MPH wind on my second try at flying. I think the program really accelerated my learning curve.

The program recognized my Futaba Transmitter and Gravis joystick immediately, but did not recognize a friend's older Gravis joystick.

The program doesn't teach landing. You can't see the ground until you've rammed it or had your plane disappear behind something.

The program unfortunately is buggy and needs some tips for use. I have had to configure the controls almost every time I start the program. Push ESC button to display toolbar, go to OPTIONS>CONTROLS to configure it. Also, it seems to get corrupted after a while. The correction after it gets too corrupted it to throw the preferences (HOME>LIBRARY>PREFERENCES.CRRCSIM.XML) into the trash. After you restart the program, you have to completely reconfigure it, but then it works fine.

I am not sure how much I'll use a sim program later, but for starting to learn how to fly this one seems to work pretty well for me.

[flieslikeabeagle]

I have (an) Imac and have used CRRCSIM to learn to fly successfully. I used Flexifly XLM as trainer plane and I think learned joystick work pretty well: as a beginner I was able to successfully fly (for 10 minutes) and land a friend's Slow Stick several times in an 8MPH wind on my second try at flying. I think the program really accelerated my learning curve.

Banjeff, congratulations! My experience was similar - back in 2004 I used FMS to learn to fly. On my first attempt at flying in the real world after learning to fly on FMS, I crashed into a tree because I chose too small a park; I immediately drove to a larger park, and half an hour later had two successful flights, flying out two battery packs on my Toytronics T-hawk (RTF airplane) with no drama.


The program doesn't teach landing. You can't see the ground until you've rammed it or had your plane disappear behind something.

Odd. On Linux, I have used the sim to practice landing many times. Collision detection is still poor, but I have been able to practice landing without too much trouble. (Try landing on the ocean off the Cape Cod slope-soaring site, and you'll find you can drive your model about on the sea floor or under the water. Completely unrealistic, but good silly fun!)
The program unfortunately is buggy and needs some tips for use. I have had to configure the controls almost every time I start the program.

I have never encountered this problem with CRRCSIM on Linux. It must be an issue with the Mac version of CRRCSIM, I guess? I believe CRRCSIM is developed primarily on Linux and the Mac and Windoze versions are ports.


I am not sure how much I'll use a sim program later, but for starting to learn how to fly this one seems to work pretty well for me.
I agree, CRRCSIM is more than good enough to learn to fly with.

But that's not all CRRCSIM is good for. It is good for learning more advanced flying skills too - flying inverted, say, or knife-edge. The trouble is there seem to be no truly neutral aerobatic powered models included in CRRCSIM, the included "sport" airplane is no pattern ship. But after tweaking its parameter files I've been able to make it fly better.

I wish there was a good CRRCSIM model of the E-flite Tribute, or a larger pattern ship. Unfortunately making a model in CRRCSIM seems to be a complex and poorly documented process, so I have not been able to contribute anything to CRRCSIM.

-Flieslikeabeagle

[flieslikeabeagle]

Interesting. My new Mac can boot as Windows XP or Mac OS. I run the latest version of G3 with no slowdowns or glitches. When I am done flying the simulator, I reboot as a Mac.

Interesting. My home-built PC can run Windows XP or Linux, will run G3 with no issues, and cost much less than any Mac for equally fast hardware. If I wanted to, I could run Mac OS too (Google for OSX86), but why would I bother when Linux is Free and does everything I want, while OSX is proprietary and restrictive? (Windows is proprietary and restrictive too, so I no longer run Realflight or Windows; I use CRRCSIM on Linux instead.)


IBM stands for "I've been misled" or "I wished I'd bought a Macintosh":D
Actually, IBM stands for "designers of the original hardware platform that all current Macintosh computers are built on". :D

IBM designed the original IBM PC hardware and software standards, which have evolved to today's Intel chipsets and motherboards which Apple now uses in current Mac's.


These days, a Mac is just a PC by another name. Same internal hardware, same chips, same Intel motherboard, same hard drives and other peripherals, different case and badge on the outside.

-Flieslikeabeagle

[FlyWheel]

I was just at the FMS homepage and they DO have a version for the Mac OS now.

Just thought you'ld like to know... ;-3)

[RiverPlane]

Where did you saw that?
The official page was last updated on 07/2005 and nothing on Mac

[banjeff]

I also looked all over the FMS page and found nothing regarding Macs. If you have a URL (web link), please post it for the rest of us.

[FlyWheel]

Where did you saw that?
The official page was last updated on 07/2005 and nothing on Mac
.
Oops! My mistake :o! It's a Heli-sim, and it's not by FMS. I guess I should have followed the link before opening up my mouth (me: removing foot).

Here's the link anyway, just in case you're interested:
http://www.flying-model-simulator.com/

It's listed on the sidebar, as well as on the main page:

http://www.flying-model-simulator.com/fmsc_e.gif

Diese Webseite gibt es auch in Deutsch (http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index.html)
Den här sidan finns även på Svenska (http://fms.has.it/)
Questo sito è inoltre disponibile in Italiano (http://space.tin.it/computer/alpranto)
This page is also available in Russian (http://fms.rcdesign.ru/)
Denne side findes også på Dansk (http://www.dkfms.dk/)
Version Française de ce site Fran (http://fms.modelisme.com/)çais (http://fms.modelisme.com/)
Free Simulator for MAC computer - HERE (http://www.flying-model-simulator.com/mac/index.html)

[FlyingMonkey]

tried it, and can't find the program on the page they're linking to...

[imac User]

you pc people a jealous yes there is a fms for mac cause i have one.
mac is way more advanced than pc and u cant handle it ;)

[alex242]

Who cares now?
When I want to play, I switch to PC; when works calls, back to Mac. Easy.

Where did you get that FMS for Mac? There's none at the official page.

[GallopingGhost]

you pc people a jealous yes there is a fms for mac cause i have one.
mac is way more advanced than pc and u cant handle it ;)

Bullwaste....:D

[cbatters]

Have you actually tried FMS on XP using either VMWare Fusion or Innotek VirtualBox (now owned by Sun -> Oracle)

[constantCrash]

Just FYI, everybody, AeroFly Pro Deluxe is now mac compatable:
http://www.aerofly.de/

[6th]

Have you actually tried FMS on XP using either VMWare Fusion or Innotek VirtualBox (now owned by Sun -> Oracle)

Alternatively they can run bootcamp, running vmware or virtualbox is additional overhead in regards to memory and cpu overhead

[cbatters]

Alternatively they can run bootcamp, running vmware or virtualbox is additional overhead in regards to memory and cpu overhead

No disagreement although the entire industry is moving towards virtualizing compute to provide more flexible hosting of operating systems and applications. General concensus is that the exta compute and memory overhead is worth the flexibility as well as the convenience of not having to reboot just to run one application in a different OS.

[dbcisco]

"Virtualization" cracks me up. It is at least 25 years old and used to be called emulation. I can't believe everyone thinks it is something new. Just renamed and re-marketed. Nothing much new under the digital sun in the last 25 years. I was doing "virtualization" projects in 1985.

[cbatters]

"Virtualization" cracks me up. It is at least 25 years old and used to be called emulation. I can't believe everyone thinks it is something new. Just renamed and re-marketed. Nothing much new under the digital sun in the last 25 years. I was doing "virtualization" projects in 1985.

The only thing new about it is the broad application to X86 servers and increasing use on X86 desktops and notebooks.


Clint

[dbcisco]

Same reason I got paid to put CP/M and Apple emulators on PCs in the 80's.

[flieslikeabeagle]

"Virtualization" cracks me up. It is at least 25 years old and used to be called emulation. I can't believe everyone thinks it is something new.

Sure, mainframes had virtualization decades ago. It is something new to personal computer hardware, though, as far as I know. Go back to 1980, and how many people would have forseen personal computers with multiple cpu cores and enough computing power to do hardware and software virtualization?

Same story with all the hype about "thin clients" we had going for several years earlier this millenium. They are not a new idea - most mainframes had a bunch of them attached a decades ago - they were called "dumb terminals" at the time. For most of us, a "dumb terminal" was a close as we got to a real computer at the time. :D

Nothing much new under the digital sun in the last 25 years. I was doing "virtualization" projects in 1985.
Having enough non-volatile flash memory to store 5000 songs in a device the size of a matchbox at a cost under $100 is pretty new. :D

-Flieslikeabeagle

[dbcisco]

. Go back to 1980, and how many people would have forseen personal computers with multiple cpu cores and enough computing power to do hardware and software virtualization?....
.....Having enough non-volatile flash memory to store 5000 songs in a device the size of a matchbox at a cost under $100 is pretty new. :D
-Flieslikeabeagle

I did.::o I made a variety of systems that were both hardware and software capable of using software from multiple vendors. My PDP11 could emulate four IBM PCs at once... and faster too!
On digital music (My first degree was in electronic music) it is not new. That is just quantity. "More" and "faster" is not "new". I will grant that the psycho-acoustics embodied in the MP3 (and others) algorithm is at least recent in the consumer market, not in the music industry though.

[cbatters]

There is a little company called VMWare with current sales of $2B and a market cap of $12B that suggests something is different today compared to 20 years ago. To deny that virtualization has changed in the last 20 years and is more accessible to the masses today is to ignore reality.

Likewise with digital sound. I do not belive that 20 years ago kids were walking around with hand-held devices connected wirelessly to the internet listening to music / videos streamed for free from YouTube. Something has changed.

[dbcisco]

Change does not mean new. The automobile has changed dramatically in the last 120 years. The automobile however is not a new technology. As for music, the only change has been the shrinking in size of digital storage. Much like the transistor radio made wireless music portable, it didn't make wireless music new. For that you have to go back to the audion tube (a Westinghouse patent I think).