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View Full Version : GWS A-10 Warthog Mild or wild set ups discuss em all here!!!


crast test dummie
01-06-2006, 11:34 PM
I purchased a GWS A-10 2 years ago with the EDF50 fans. After I read that it could barley fly itself I put it on a shelf and forgot about it. That was a wise thing to do cause this was my 1st. RC plane I purchesed!!!!:eek:

Well I now have 2 years under my belt, and 10 planes in the hanger. So I pulled it down from the shelf and said to my self. If it don't fly worth a darn with the stock power I'll put in 2 brushed speed 400 motors and make her a pusher.:D It flew real nice but during the R&D process she did get some bumps and bruses. So I orderd a slope kit and I'm starting over.

This time I'm again going at it from another direction. I took the Idea form Warren [my pal over at RC Groups]. I'm going to mount a brushless motor in the tail cone and run her on a single 9 to 10 inch prop. This should allow the A-10 to fly at pretty fast and slow speeds and have tons of thrust for slow climbouts. It should look very scale flying across our AMA field. Since I'm going to put a powerful motor on her I figure she could stand to gain a little weight. I'm going to Fiber Glass her with .75oz. FG Cloth and finishing resin. I was thinking of just glassing the tell tail weak points of the A-10, but I think I'm going to do the whole airframe. That way I can paint her with any paint I want. The foam will be protected from solvients in the paint by the fiber glass and resin. I'll post more on her as I progress.

Please join in with your ideas.

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
01-08-2006, 06:47 PM
Here is some pictures of my speed 400 pusher A-10. She flew pretty good but I really like the Brushless motors, so thats why I'm doing another one. The single motor in the tail should be a blast to fly. More to come.........

CTD

reills
01-08-2006, 07:58 PM
I've got one of those anemic EDF-50 A-10's. Put those fans on a Wally World hand chuck and spent the summer burnin' them out. For the A-10 I now have (thank you Santa) two AStro 010 8-turns and Wemotec microfans. We'll keep you posted, but my feeling is woohoo!!!

John.G
01-09-2006, 12:40 AM
Got one that has over 60 flights on it but with the 55 fans and stock motors.It is a blast to fly around some of the guys bought them after they saw this one fly at fun fly's.It really is cheap fun and they do come apart from time to time but after a few repairs with epoxy I do the rest with ca now as it is lighter as it was getting alittle heavy with epoxy repairs.Would buy another one in a min if and when I loose this one.

Crash Test Dummy
01-09-2006, 12:43 AM
Hey reills,

Thanks for chimming in. Sounds like you are in for alot of fun. This plane is such a nice flyer, she floats sooooo nice!! I attached a link to my video gallery. There is a video of my twin pusher there as well as some other planes. Check E'm out.
http://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/showgallery.php?ppuser=39087&cat=500

CTD

trogdor
01-09-2006, 04:41 AM
I've had an old A-10 from when I started up again in RC. The old edf50 model. It was my third plane and taught me alot... like flying on the minimum power possible! I still have it after a few good crackups (including hand launch of flight #1 right into the dirt!) and I always thought about going with those little Feigao 12mm motors in place of the stock ones.

I think single or dual pusher brushless is probably the way to go though. Even the dual brushless edf55 fans don't look that fast in the videos I've seen but maybe I'm asking too much from this.?

crast test dummie
01-09-2006, 04:16 PM
JohnG,

Wow, 60 flights thats great!! What batteries are you running in the stock set up. My buddy just maidened his yesterday. He has the EDF 55 fans with the brushed motors. He is running a 3 cell Kokam 1500. I have herd that the motors will burn up if you run them on 11.1 volts. With 60 flights, I would assume you are running 8 cells in her.

Trogdor,

Thats why I am going with a single BL pusher config. I want lots of power to climb out after low slow straffing runs. The A-10 is not a fast plane and with the wide wing span it would be hard to turn in into a rocket. It will fly pretty fast but it looks best/scale going at slow to medium speeds. You can see in my video that it clips along at a pretty good pace.

CTD

John.G
01-10-2006, 01:31 AM
Hello CTD the plane has been flown from the start with a 3/2100 LiPo with a 35 amp speed controler and yes its alot of speed controler but it was what I had.Yes I had heard of all the horror storings about them burning up yes I guess throttle management is key.But you can't help but do the turn and burn thing when ever possible.John

crast test dummie
01-10-2006, 02:07 AM
When i did my pusher I burned up the Y connector. It was the GWS Y connector. So I made my own. My buddy will be happy to hear you got 60 flights on 3S batteries.

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
01-11-2006, 04:55 AM
Well got some glass on her tonight. It's all drying on the table. I used Finishing resin and 3/4 oz. cloth. Tomorrow I'll see if it needs another coat, sometimes you will get some bubbles in the finish. I will check it out tomorrow. I almost forgot, I only put the bamboo spar in the wing. I figure with the Glass it won't need the CF rod. Besides I willl need the CF rod for my next Stryker build.



CTD

Crash Test Dummy
01-12-2006, 06:05 AM
Ok, I shot some pictures of the A-10 after glassing. You can also see the carbon fiber ribbon inside the fuse. The elevator has a CF spar in cause it was the 1st thing to break on my pusher version. I also included a picture of my helper, Taz the cat. He is 1 year old and likes to be in the middle of whatever is going on.

Now I have to trim all of the FG edges and prepare her for glueing. Before the fuse halfs can be glued together, I need to install the elevator push rod tube and sand and fit the fuse. There really isn't any more to do inside the fuse.

More to come........

CTD

crast test dummie
01-12-2006, 08:56 PM
I didn't have much time today to do anything before work except trim the glass edges off of one half of the fuse. Had to take my wife to a doctors appointment also B-4 work. She had a foot operation and it has increased my honey do list quite a bit, which is slowing down my progress on this project. These A-10's are such a quick and easy build. I should be able to build one in 1 to 2 evenings, of course thats less the glassing.

However the good thing is her doctors office is near a Hobby Lobby. She was going to be there for a 1 hour appointment, so I went to the HL store to look at paint. I got 3 shades of green to do a camo pattern. I sprayed 3 light coats on the above mentioned fuse half, so I should be good and dry when I get home tonight. I should have got more done today but, after all, I didn't want to give up my morning flying time. It is going to be in the 50's today!! In January, in Chicago!!!! 7 MPH winds too!!! Awsome!

CTD

rahtware
01-13-2006, 01:34 AM
It is going to be in the 50's today!! In January, in Chicago!!!! 7 MPH winds too!!! Awsome!

CTD
And we are expecting a light dusting of snow here in the coastal range of Northern California tomorrow!

Cool plane! From what I understand the 1:1 scale version isn't a real speed demon so why should the model be any different? :D

PS My newest RC plane has a top speed of around 2mph!
5920

crast test dummie
01-13-2006, 02:09 AM
And we are expecting a light dusting of snow here in the coastal range of Northern California tomorrow!

Cool plane! From what I understand the 1:1 scale version isn't a real speed demon so why should the model be any different? :D

PS My newest RC plane has a top speed of around 2mph!
5920
Wow, snow in California!! The A-10 isn't very fast but it looks cool going slow.:D Wow, what kind of motor is on that little bird??

CTD

crast test dummie
01-13-2006, 06:34 PM
Well I trimmed the xtra fiber glass edges last night and got a couple of coats of base green on her. I'm not 100% happy with the Green color but you know what. These foam planes all have their experation dates on them. I'm not going to get crazy with exact color matches. It would be nice to create a perfect work of art, but if it crashes and burns I won't worry about it too much. I'll save perfect for static models. BTW, on these foam planes I would just stick to Min Wax rather than going with the epoxy resin. It will be easer to work with and the coats dry very fast. The resin might be stronger but the Min Wax is strong enough and it's easy to work with.

With the resin it's harder to get it to lay and stay flat. I got some unwanted bubbles in the cloth, I have had much better results with MinWax. I'm hoping to get some more done tonight. I'm not sure if I'll assemble and then paint or paint then assemble. I may just paint 1st. I havn't cut the control surfaces out yet so maybe I'll finish the camo and then cut, hinge, and assemble. I'll try to get some pix posted after I get the camo on her.;)

CTD

rahtware
01-13-2006, 07:23 PM
CTD

I'm about to try my first "MinWax / glass cloth" covering and have a question.... Or three.

Do you brush or spray? Do you lay down the fabric and work the MW through the fabric, or apply a coat and then stick on the fabric while the MW is still tacky?? Is this like working with resin where you have to keep going back to see what has lifted and or dried out???

As to covering with cloth and resin, the difficulty in achieving a thin but even coat is what led to vacuum bagging. (Next step in the evolution of the Stryker?)

crast test dummie
01-13-2006, 08:14 PM
CTD

I'm about to try my first "MinWax / glass cloth" covering and have a question.... Or three.

Do you brush or spray? Do you lay down the fabric and work the MW through the fabric, or apply a coat and then stick on the fabric while the MW is still tacky?? Is this like working with resin where you have to keep going back to see what has lifted and or dried out???

As to covering with cloth and resin, the difficulty in achieving a thin but even coat is what led to vacuum bagging. (Next step in the evolution of the Stryker?)
I brush it on. It lays better than resin and the coats dry in less than 1 hour. I have brushed it on and then applied the cloth and I have laid the cloth and brushed through the cloth. I'm not sure which process I like better. If you brush the minwax on 1st, the cloth will stick and hold position better. You'll have to try both ways and judge for yourself. It's not hard to achieve a nice thin coat, the waterbased Min Wax is very thin almost like water. Some guys will add baby powder to it to help fill in the mesh of the cloth. I have not done that so I dont know how much baby powder to add. What is the plane you are going to glass made of?

CTD

rahtware
01-13-2006, 08:25 PM
What is the plane you are going to glass made of?

CTD
EPP, it's a Stryker.

I wish I had known about this method before I started painting my DC-3. I'm sure I have more weight in paint on it than a coat of cloth / MW. Oh well I haven't started the wings yet and they are what could really use the extra stiffness.

crast test dummie
01-13-2006, 08:34 PM
EPP, it's a Stryker.

I wish I had known about this method before I started painting my DC-3. I'm sure I have more weight in paint on it than a coat of cloth / MW. Oh well I haven't started the wings yet and they are what could really use the extra stiffness.
I have not tried Mix Wax on my Stryker's. I did use 2 hour epoxy on my Strykers. I don't know if the Min Wax would be better on EPP or Epoxy. My stryker is very stiff, 0 flex in the wing. Flys like it is on rails. Look at my gallery at RC Groups there is a video of me abusing the bejesus out of my glassed stryker. As I think about it I think epoxy would bond the FG better to EPP.

CTD

rahtware
01-14-2006, 03:01 AM
As I think about it I think epoxy would bond the FG better to EPP.

CTD

I think you are correct. I tried a test spot on S-#1 (without the fabric) and it peeled off as easy as the paint I had used. Back to square one!:(

Crash Test Dummy
01-16-2006, 04:11 AM
Ok here's the glamour shots. The blue color is not that blue in person, it's more of a blue/gray color.

Still needs electronics and motor installed. I'm thinking the motor on the stick with the GB might be too tail heavy. I may just get an AXI 2808/34 to power her since Warrren got his to ballance with that power plant.

Warren,

What size battery did you use? I have a 2100 TP 3 cell and a Apogee 2480 3 cell. I'm hoping they will be good for this set up.

CTD

whansen
01-16-2006, 06:30 PM
Warren,
What size battery did you use? I have a 2100 TP 3 cell and a Apogee 2480 3 cell. I'm hoping they will be good for this set up.

CTD
HeyCTD! Great Paint Job!

I used a Thunder Power 3c 2100 mAh batt. Works well if you add 2" of wire bettween the esc and motor. I needed to move the esc forward to get balence without adding any ballast.

crast test dummie
01-16-2006, 07:06 PM
HeyCTD! Great Paint Job!

I used a Thunder Power 3c 2100 mAh batt. Works well if you add 2" of wire bettween the esc and motor. I needed to move the esc forward to get balence without adding any ballast.

Thanks, I have always loved invaison stripes on planes, but had never seen them on any modern planes, only WWII planes. When I saw Fuelsguy's A-10 I knew i had to do that paint job. I was hoping I wouldn't have to add any more weight. Today I'm going to get her a new motor.

CTD

crast test dummie
01-16-2006, 11:43 PM
I got a motor for my A-10 today. I ended up purchasing a E-Flight Park 450 outrunner. I was going to get the AXI but they didn't have a mount for it and E-Flight comes with a mount and a prop adapter for $65.00. The AXI was $69.00, so for the xtra stuff you get and a savings of a few bucks it was a better deal for the E-Flight. Not to mention the fact that it was in stock. When I want something, I usually want it NOW! I hope to get the electronics and motor in her this week.

CTD

crast test dummie
01-18-2006, 10:14 PM
I got all the gear installed today. I had to put the entire clay stick [from GWS] in the nose PLUS 15 grams of weight!!!!:eek: The CG is still further back than 57mm's that the manual states as the max. I really don't want to add any more weight but I may do just that for the maiden and then try to remove it later.

I only had time to run 1 quick test with my watt meter. I put an 11X7 ACP on her and at WOT it pulled 14 AMPs @ 140 watts. The Park 450 is rated at 12 AMPs Cont and 18 burst for 15 Sec., so I should be ok once the prop unloads in the air, I hope. I also have a 10X4.7, a 10X5 and a 9X7.5 to test yet. I'm sure I won't be flying her anywhere near WOT. It had STUMP PULLING thrust with that [11X7] prop, so I'm sure it will fly very nice at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle.

I'm not 100% happy with the motor mount yet. It looks like I have a slight bit of down thrust in it. I may have to shim the 2 lower screws with washers to get the thrust closed to neutral or 0. I'll try to get some pix posted in the next day or so. I'm also going to tone down some of the blue on her with some gray that looks almost like the stock GWS gray. I'll leave some blue but cover most of it with the gray.:D

CTD

trogdor
01-19-2006, 01:27 AM
crash test - BE CAREFUL, the listed CG is pretty damn nose heavy. On my 2 year old edf50 model I went by the book and regret it. Neutral surfaces and strong hand launch right into the ground 10 feet in front of me, no way to even get my hand to the stick in time.. When I actually did trim it with listed CG it needed a TON of up elevator... CG places much farther back and it eliminated teh up elevator and made the thing a bit faster. I can't remember exactly the CG to use but I want to say something like 80mm max. I'd check some old a-10 threads on one of the other boards to be sure tho..

crast test dummie
01-19-2006, 01:43 AM
crash test - BE CAREFUL, the listed CG is pretty damn nose heavy. On my 2 year old edf50 model I went by the book and regret it. Neutral surfaces and strong hand launch right into the ground 10 feet in front of me, no way to even get my hand to the stick in time.. When I actually did trim it with listed CG it needed a TON of up elevator... CG places much farther back and it eliminated teh up elevator and made the thing a bit faster. I can't remember exactly the CG to use but I want to say something like 80mm max. I'd check some old a-10 threads on one of the other boards to be sure tho..

WOW!! 80mm? I'll look back through some of the old posts in RC Groups and see whare people ran theres. My 1st pusher version needed alot of up in the elevator if I recall. Thanks for the warning.

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
01-19-2006, 06:26 AM
This Little Piggie went to market.
I knew it would be heavy, I'll bet Min Wax would have been lighter. My final weight without battery. 20oz's so, with a battery I should be in the 25+oz range.

Could there be a Maiden in the morning??????

Weather says 8 to 10 MPH in the morning. That sounds good, 8 to 10 MPH is nice for a Maiden.. DOH!! I have to take my wife to the doctor in the morning.
But thats ok , the weather says 7 MPH winds Friday morning, thats even better. I can't wait to fly this bird. http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

CTD

rahtware
01-19-2006, 07:08 AM
This Little Piggie went to market.
I knew it would be heavy, I'll bet Min Wax would have been lighter. My final weight without battery. 20oz's so, with a battery I should be in the 25+oz range.


CTD

CTD

25oz!!! I hope it has landing gear so you can at least run it around the parking lot when it doesn't take off.:D

Just kidding, you are a find builder / flyer so I bet, given time, you will be able to sort it all out.

vagabond324
01-19-2006, 06:06 PM
CTD, very nice, hope to see some pictures of your motor mount. Thanks for pointing me to your thread. Waiting to hear how your maiden flight goes, good luck. vagabond324:D

crast test dummie
01-19-2006, 10:33 PM
Had to take my wife to the doctor. I was thinking "toss the A-10 in the trunk just in case, you never know". I had some running around to do while she was at the doctor, so I drop her off. Well 2 minutes later she is calling me on my cell phone. Her appointment was for 10AM not 9AM. Well I said to her "what do you want me to do"? This is the good part, she says I'll just sit here and read a book, why don't you go fly your plane and keep yourself busy for the next 2 hours. Yeeehaw!!!! I head over to the Flying field [it's only 2 miles away from the doctors office.] get her ready to fly. I give her a toss into a light 5MPH wind and she crashes!!!:mad: Now Im not exactly sure why it happened, It all took place too fast. The motor came off and I broke the control horn on the elevator.

That was not good, I felt like I was robbed!! And listen to this, yesterday I tossed my Stryker into the air 2X in a row and crashed both times, on the second crash[test dummy] I broke my motor mount. I felt all out of sorts. Now I'm not braggin, but I could fly my Stryker at 80MPH while taking a nap. It was just one of those days! I thought to myself, the A-10 crashing was just some wierd residual left over bad carma from yesterday, and It wasn't going to get the best of me.:mad:

Well since I had all this xtra time before picking up the wife, I thought I'd run home and get the repairs started. However before I could do that, I had to fly something to ward off the evil demons that were haunting me. I pulled my repaired Stryker out of the trunk tossed her in the air and she flew like a dream. I flew 2 packs with my hair on fire, wringing the Stryker out, and building my confidence back up. Look!!, I do know how to fly!!!

I went home and started the repairs so I could try again later. By the time the repairs were made and the wife was picked up and home again, the winds kicked up a bit. Back at the field It was a stiff 12 MPH and gusting to about 18MPH.:eek: In the earler attempt I was alone at the field, so the walk of shame didn't feel so........shameful. Well in the afternoon attempt there was 2 other club members there, the pressure was on. One of the guys was the guy who got me into this hobby. The jitters were back, I shook off the bad feelings and tossed the A-10 in the air and she took off!! HOOORAY!! Took a couple passes to get her trimed out and she flew real nice, just like I recall my twin pusher flying. I still think it is tail heavy, the other guys said it looked tail heavy to them too. Both of these guys have been flying RC for 30+ years so I trust them. I'm going to add a little weight at a time until it feels good. I'm skocked at the amount of weight I have already added, I hate to add more but if thats what it takes, so be it. The wind was getting stronger, It would gust up then calm down to about 12 MPH. I didn't want to fly to cut off in that kind of wind so I brought her in for a landing. Upon landing the prop hit and knocked the motor off again, but I was very happy with how things went. I can tell this will be a super sweet flyer once I get a few more trimming flights in. I think I'll try a prop saver like I saw on one of you guys running on your A-10. Well thats the scoop, sorry it took so much bandwith. He He!:)

CTD

crast test dummie
01-19-2006, 11:17 PM
CTD, very nice, hope to see some pictures of your motor mount. Thanks for pointing me to your thread. Waiting to hear how your maiden flight goes, good luck. vagabond324:D

There are some pix of how some others mounted their motors here.......I don't know when I can get my pix posted.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=425187

CTD

Don Sims
01-19-2006, 11:18 PM
CTD why not move your pack forward instead of adding weightExtra weight in lectrics could be a bad thing. Even in the age of lipos and brushless motors.....

crast test dummie
01-19-2006, 11:21 PM
CTD why not move your pack forward instead of adding weightExtra weight in lectrics could be a bad thing. Even in the age of lipos and brushless motors.....
I wish I could.

I have a 2480Mah 3 cell Apogee all the way forward in the nose already!!:eek: Plus the entire stick of clay GWS supplies and 15oz. of lead!! Sorry I ment 15 grams not oz's. He He.

CTD

rahtware
01-20-2006, 02:06 AM
I wish I could.

... and 15oz. of lead!! ...

CTD
My heart almost stopped when I read that...

Good to hear that it flew, I know how hard "trim-out" flights can be.

Years ago a friend of mine (whom I taught to fly RC) gave me a joke "training tool". It consisted of a piece of 1/2" ply about 8" wide and 12" long with "half-circles" cut out of each end. Attached to the points were pieces of Velcro. The idea behind it was, you would strap it between your knees to stop the shaking during first flights!:D

crast test dummie
01-20-2006, 02:11 AM
My heart almost stopped when I read that...

Good to hear that it flew, I know how hard "trim-out" flights can be.

Years ago a friend of mine (whom I taught to fly RC) gave me a joke "training tool". It consisted of a piece of 1/2" ply about 8" wide and 12" long with "half-circles" cut out of each end. Attached to the points were pieces of Velcro. The idea behind it was, you would strap it between your knees to stop the shaking during first flights!:D

LOL, that was funny.

CTD

crast test dummie
01-20-2006, 05:04 PM
Well I got home from work last night at about 9:45PM and had a house full of people. My Son, his wife, and 3 grandkids had come out to visit and were waiting for me to get home from work. My oldest grandson Michael loves to go out in the garage with Papa to look at, and work on airplanes. He is giong to be 8 yrs old next month, and likes to go out watch Papa fly a pack or 2. His favorite thing is if I crash, He says "it looks cool when they crash, and then we get to fix'em up, Papa!" Isn't that cool, kids have a great outlook on things, sort of like the glass is half full attitude. Gotta love it.

Well thats my excuse as to why there isn't a flight report this AM. The weather man said we are going to get 4 to 6 inches of the white stuff today, starting at RUSH HOUR.:mad: Well I guess I know what I'm doing tonight when I get home. I prefer rain, you don't have to shovel it!

CTD

crast test dummie
01-23-2006, 06:20 PM
Wow!! we got wacked!! Up to 12 inches in some areas. I got about 8 inches at my house. Well enough about the weather... I flew my A-10 for the 2nd and 3 rd time this weekend. She crashed both times on take off!!! The plane still acted like it was tail heavy. I had the CG at about 63mm. I did put some up thrust in the motor mount but I don't think that caused the crash. I also didn't put much up elevator in her. So maybe the up thrust was an issue. I don't know for sure, any Ideas? When I launched her it pitched nose up and rolled to the left and went nose in AUGH!! My pretty A-10 isn't so pretty anymore. After I put the puzzle/A-10 back together I'm going to cut the tail cone back closer to the rear Horz stab and mount her with 0 thrust. Moving the motor more forward will help with the CG issue. My motor is only slightly heaver than Warrens, I think it is only 2 tenths of an oz. heaver, and he didn't have to add any weight????

My other A-10 with the 2 Speed 400 in the pusher config worked like a charm. I'm really pulling my hair out with this one!:mad: Any Ideas??
I'm really starting to think the up thrust may be the cause. I think I will have to have someone toss her for me so i can be on the sticks next time.

CTD

rahtware
01-23-2006, 07:14 PM
CTD

I'm not the smartest guy when it comes to setting up a plane, but I think you hit on part of the problem. Years ago I helped a friend set up jato assist on a plane (for a joke). We both thought they had to have up thrust but we cornered the "trimming expert" of the club he told us that they had to be aimed at the CG or they would cause problems... OBTW they actually worked! at least better then his next project which was under wing rockets... Burned a hole in his wing!:eek:

crast test dummie
01-23-2006, 07:59 PM
CTD

I'm not the smartest guy when it comes to setting up a plane, but I think you hit on part of the problem. Years ago I helped a friend set up jato assist on a plane (for a joke). We both thought they had to have up thrust but we cornered the "trimming expert" of the club he told us that they had to be aimed at the CG or they would cause problems... OBTW they actually worked! at least better then his next project which was under wing rockets... Burned a hole in his wing!:eek:

What is a Jato Assist? Are you saying the thrust line of the motor had to be pointed at the CG point?

CTD

rahtware
01-23-2006, 08:33 PM
What is a Jato Assist? Are you saying the thrust line of the motor had to be pointed at the CG point?

CTD
Jato stands for Rocket assisted take off (why didn't they use Rato?).

As for the TL/CG, I was wondering if you would catch me on this...

Yes thrust lines and CG (in the perfect world) cross... But, looking at your Stryker you will see that the thrust line is above the CG (roughly center of the wing above the little balancing dimples.

The reason for this is compromise.

The Stryker has a relatively flat bottom wing. How about your A-10? A flat bottom wing has a built in (roughly) 3 degrees of positive incidence. Plus the airframe drag is asymmetrical... On the Stryker the difference between top and bottom drag is very little, but enough to make a difference. Plus darn old gravity is added into the mix.

To counteract this, high-flat bottom wing trainers are set up with down thrust and right thrust to counteract these factors and engine torque.

Glacier Girl pointed out that the proper setting of the thrust line in the Stryker is through the nose, or above the CG (Up thrust in a pusher equals down thrust in a tractor plane). Your Warthog is also going to need a higher then CG thrust line... How much??? I don't know, check out your other one, as it seems to work great.

crast test dummie
01-23-2006, 08:40 PM
Jato stands for Rocket assisted take off (why didn't they use Rato?).

As for the TL/CG, I was wondering if you would catch me on this...

Yes thrust lines and CG (in the perfect world) cross... But, looking at your Stryker you will see that the thrust line is above the CG (roughly center of the wing above the little balancing dimples.

The reason for this is compromise.

The Stryker has a relatively flat bottom wing. How about your A-10? A flat bottom wing has a built in (roughly) 3 degrees of positive incidence. Plus the airframe drag is asymmetrical... On the Stryker the difference between top and bottom drag is very little, but enough to make a difference. Plus darn old gravity is added into the mix.

To counteract this, high-flat bottom wing trainers are set up with down thrust and right thrust to counteract these factors and engine torque.

Glacier Girl pointed out that the proper setting of the thrust line in the Stryker is through the nose, or above the CG (Up thrust in a pusher equals down thrust in a tractor plane). Your Warthog is also going to need a higher then CG thrust line... How much??? I don't know, check out your other one, as it seems to work great.
I got it! I think I'm going to set it up with 0 thrust to start.

CTD

crast test dummie
01-24-2006, 03:26 AM
I talked with some experts today. 3 of the guys are long time flyers that work at LHS's and one guy from our club [The Aurora Barnstormers] who has been flying for about 30 years. Heres part of what I found......

Thrust on pushers. The thrust angle of a pusher should point at the CG point of the plane. Look at our beloved Stryker's motor mount, if you draw a line from the forward facing part of the motor shaft it will bisect close to the CG. With the motor mounted in the tail cone, his advise was to remove all up thrust to start. He also said that if I had too much up thrust on the motor it could push the tail down, add that to a wacky CG. and Crash Test Dummy has great job security. If I have to still put a ton of weight in her to acheeve the CG, then I'll cut the tail cone to move the motor further forward.

Changing CG from factory specs.......
It can be done, on some airframes, and some require it. But on most planes it will cause twichy flight. He said this would most likley be the case with the A-10. So I'm going to follow the factory specs and adjust from there.

I am running a TP2100 and an Apogee 2480, both 3 cells. I also cut the hatch out and my battery is all the way forward. I just have to add more weight to the nose. I will make this bird fly.

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
01-24-2006, 06:56 AM
The foam was compressed in 1 area that I have found so far. I put 2 pieces together tonight with Gorilla Glue, It should fill some of the parts that were compressed. I will mount the rest of the nose on her tomorrow. I just may order another slope kit if it's too ugly, or then again maybe I'll fly the ugly one as a winter beater. Then get a slope to build a nice pretty one for summer.

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
01-25-2006, 03:43 AM
I got her back together, now I still need to get some of the up out of the motor mount. I would also like to move the motor closer to the Horz Stab in order to get CG without adding too much weight to the nose. Thursday morning will be calm according to the weather man. Today we have winds gusting to 45MPH:eek: !! Not a good day to fly.

CTD

Don Sims
01-25-2006, 04:43 AM
CTD with many planes at 45mph you hover, not fly except on the downwind run then it's katy bar the door!

Crash Test Dummy
01-25-2006, 04:49 AM
CTD with many planes at 45mph you hover, not fly except on the downwind run then it's katy bar the door!

I fly my Stryker in this kind of weather. I call it my all weather fighter, it is glassed and a bit heaver than your stock Stryker, so it flys when most planes wouldn't dare. However I don't usually put her up if it is over 25 MPH winds.:)

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
01-26-2006, 06:20 AM
Yesterday I got the rest of the nose glued back on. It isn't pretty but I think she will fly. I put the bar of GWS clay and 30 grams of lead in her nose. It balances just behind the bamboo spar in the wing. I may even add 5 more grams just for the 1st flight or maybe not. I took all the up thrust out of the motor, but I didn't move it closer to the rear horz stab yet. I ran out of time and engery.

Small off topic rant here cause it's my thread and I need to vent!!

My wife had an operation on her foot and is out of comission [8 weeks min!]. Which has me running around doing all the things she does plus my regular chores. My Daughter [Vanessa] has been helping as much as she can, [she is the best!!] but she has 2 little ones herself. Yesterday I had to go to the store for food. The cabnets were bare. This is my least favorite place in the whole world!!! Yuck, I can't tell you how many times I had to go from one end of this Giant size store, back to the other just cause I didn't know that velvetta would be by the crackers all the way on the top of the shelf, where you almost can't see em!!! I mean why don't they put it by all the other cheese products? That was just 1 example of male food store ignorance. There was lots of stuff I couldn't find without hiring a search party. Well Vanessa's husband is going out of town for a few days, she called her Mom this morning and said she was coming over to stay for a few days to clean the house and cook for us!!! See I told you she was the best! OMG, relief!! I can use some! Next week she [wife] go's in for a check up and maybe a walking cast if we are lucky. I said this before, don't ever take your wife for granted. An old American Indian saying go's something like this, never judge a man until you have walked in his mocksin's for X weeks. You have no idea how much they do [our wifes] until they stop doing it and you start doing your stuff and their stuff!

Thanks, I feel better now.


Tomorrow morning is the target for re-maiden. They say it will only be 2 MPH winds. Darn near perfect. Hopfully my flight will be darn rear perfect too.

CTD

rahtware
01-26-2006, 09:01 AM
CTD

I hope it works out.

Crash Test Dummy
01-26-2006, 02:35 PM
Hoy Cow Larry, you were up late! I'm heading out now. The weather is perfect, almost dead calm.

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
01-26-2006, 05:13 PM
A-10 Remaiden
Well I'm trying to upload video. Well see if it works, if not I'll post elsewhare and post a link. Yup, the files are too big. I'll add them later this afternoon if I can. Sorry No report until the videos are uploaded. You'll have to wait to see if she flys or crashes and burns.

CTD

rahtware
01-26-2006, 06:36 PM
My bet is it flew...

A-10 Remaiden
Well I'm trying to upload video. Well see if it works, if not I'll post elsewhare and post a link. Yup, the files are too big. I'll add them later this afternoon if I can. Sorry No report until the videos are uploaded. You'll have to wait to see if she flys or crashes and burns.

CTD

crast test dummie
01-26-2006, 10:13 PM
rahtware,

You are rite and wrong all at the same time!

So heres the long awaited videos. They are short cause I don't know how to make them smaller. She flew like a dream, I had to do some major trimming to the elevator in flight but I was able to compensate. I did about 10 passes at our field, all was giong well, until I got a bit of sun in my eyes. She was only 25 ft. high, I lost orentation and she went nose in again, HA HA HA HA! I can laugh this time cause I got to at least fly her for more than 3 seconds. I orderd a slope kit from the LHS about 2 minutes after the crash. Sorry we didn't get the crash on video, it was quite unexpected.

I'm still going to Frankinstein it back together so I can play with her until I get the new slope kit. I also wish I had got a higher KV motor, with the 11X7 ACP it was at about 40 MPH max speed [Guess] I will also try a smaller prop to see if it picks up some speed. I know the A-10 isn't suppose to be a fast plane but I like some speed, so if it isnt quick enough I'll get her a new motor. Overall very sweet flyer, I cant wait to epoxy her back together and give her another go. BTW, when I got home and took her out of the trunk I snapped the main wing rite whare the diheral starts, [to put it mildly] crud! All in all I'm very happy i got her up in the air. In the 1 video you will hear the 2 guys that were with me crackin up. They were taunting me to fly lower. I came in low over the weeds, you cant hear it on the video but my wing brushed the tops of the grass. Fun stuff!!:D
http://media.putfile.com/WILL-SHE-FLY
http://media.putfile.com/straifing-rolls (http://media.putfile.com/straifing-rolls)
http://media.putfile.com/A-10-launch (http://media.putfile.com/A-10-launch)
http://media.putfile.com/Low-in-the-weed- (http://media.putfile.com/Low-in-the-weed-)

Foam smith,
CTD

rahtware
01-26-2006, 11:18 PM
I guess I'm :) & :( at the same time...

Glad you got to fly it. That is like my first Stryker flight; a rekit, but hooked!

crast test dummie
01-26-2006, 11:19 PM
It is such a sweet flyer, I can't wait to foam smith her back together.

CTD

vagabond324
01-27-2006, 02:35 PM
CTD, very cool:cool: ! Looking forward to seeing more when you get the time. Thanks again for sharing. Vagabond324:D

iceman
01-27-2006, 04:03 PM
CTD

Good to hear that you at least got to fly her once. I know the feeling from my first Stryker. I have also built an A-10 but not mounted any electronics because I can not decide if I want to go for 2 Speed 400 motors or with one tailmounted BL motor. I have got a couple of 400 motors and 2 BL outrunners that is not in use, so what do you think about it? Always good to ask someone who has been there and done it before I finish it up.

crast test dummie
01-27-2006, 05:48 PM
CTD
Good to hear that you at least got to fly her once. I know the feeling from my first Stryker. I have also built an A-10 but not mounted any electronics because I can not decide if I want to go for 2 Speed 400 motors or with one tailmounted BL motor. I have got a couple of 400 motors and 2 BL outrunners that is not in use, so what do you think about it? Always good to ask someone who has been there and done it before I finish it up.

HEY ICEMAN!!

How ya doing? Are you the same Iceman from the RC Groups, Stryker how far can you take it thread? Long time no see.:D
Go for the Bl motor in the tail, no question about it. I liked my twin but the BL motor in the tail has so much more to offer in the fun factor. The thrust is way awsome! If you want speed, go with a higher KV motor with a smaller prop. My Park 450 is the lower KV motor and I wish I had gotten the higher KV or another motor for her. I still may get her a new motor, but 1st I'll try a smaller prop to gain some MPH. Let me know what you do.

CTD

iceman
01-27-2006, 06:07 PM
CTD

I sure am the same guy. The Iceman3 username was taken when I registered so it had to be just Iceman. Yes there have been some time since the last time I posted on the thread. I have been busy with work and buying and building some new planes that give me some headaches (problems). I will take your advice about the A-10 and mount a Dualsky xm300B (kv1500) motor. It should push about 25-26 oz with a 9x5 prop and 3cell lipo. I wonder if this would be enough to push it with some vertical climbout.

An another question for you off topic, hope you can answer. I am about to build a plane with 4 servos, but can not figure out if I have to do some serious mods/deactivation to the bec on the controller (CC25) to get this to work, or can I just add a 4 cell pack to the Rx?????

crast test dummie
01-27-2006, 06:25 PM
CTD

I sure am the same guy. The Iceman3 username was taken when I registered so it had to be just Iceman. Yes there have been some time since the last time I posted on the thread. I have been busy with work and buying and building some new planes that give me some headaches (problems). I will take your advice about the A-10 and mount a Dualsky xm300B (kv1500) motor. It should push about 25-26 oz with a 9x5 prop and 3cell lipo. I wonder if this would be enough to push it with some vertical climbout.

An another question for you off topic, hope you can answer. I am about to build a plane with 4 servos, but can not figure out if I have to do some serious mods/deactivation to the bec on the controller (CC25) to get this to work, or can I just add a 4 cell pack to the Rx?????

That motor sounds like it would work very well. If it gives that much thrust you will be better than 1 to 1 thrust ratio. My Glassed A-10 AUW is about 25.5 oz. Yours should be lighter if you don't glass her, but even with the glass it would work. I don't know if you read all of this thread but, make sure you dont make the same mistakes I did. You might also be able to prop up some for more thrust. I really dont know anything about your motor. What is the largest prop it will run?

I'm not sure how many servos the CC ESC is rated for, I don't own any CC ESC's. I have run 4 servos on my 25 AMP ESC from Great Planes, but I'm not sure on yours. You can go to RC Groups and do a search for a guy named Joe Ford/ thats his screen name and real name, he works for CC. He's a real nice guy and will be happy to help you. I havn't seen him post here yet, but that don't mean he isn't here somewhere. Sorry I couldnt be of more help on this issue.

CTD

iceman
01-27-2006, 06:38 PM
CTD

Thank you for the tip, I will try to locate that guy and find out what to do. The Dualskymotor will run up to a 9X7 prop. Any bigger than that will draw to much amps and much likely fry it. I also got a BP21 motor that has not been used, maybe I will try that instead because this has a smaller mounting diameter. Do you think a kind of stick mount would be useable on the A-10? Just thinking out loud, because most of the outrunners can be mounted to a stick and the ease of zeroing out the thrustline would possibly become easier.

rahtware
01-27-2006, 06:45 PM
I just had to look up the numbers... These are per the GWS site.

Stock EDF50 = 17.6oz RTF weight, 7oz thrust.

Stock EDF55 = 18.3oz RTF weight, 11oz thrust. This is with the 300H motor.

And their own direct drive nonfan setup; EDP300H = 18.3oz flying weight, 17.4oz thrust.

One BP-21 gives 21oz of thrust so an A-10 should go vert! That is with an 8-4 prop and 11.1V.. I have to go to a 7-5 prop for my Stryker (so it will fit between the fins) and the A-10 has even less clearance. It would be cool though to see how a Hog would fly with 2 of these, but I don't know how much thrust you could get out of a 5" prop on a BP-21???

crast test dummie
01-27-2006, 06:51 PM
I will try to post pix of my motor for you I just mounted it to a piece of lite ply and glued it to the tail cone. You need to cut the tail cone off some. There are some pictures of other guys mounts at .......http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=425187&highlight=warthog

There are some pictures of stick mounts and mounts like I did. On that thread look at the second post on the 1st page. Whansen, is the one who gave me the idea of the outrunner in the tail. Look at his gallery, there are pix of 2 mounts he did. Toward the end of the thread there are some other nice examples of stick mounts. Whansen don't recomend the stick mount he 1st tried. I puts the prop way above the center line and causes some pitch up when you apply throttle.

CTD

crast test dummie
01-27-2006, 06:57 PM
I just had to look up the numbers... These are per the GWS site.

Stock EDF50 = 17.6oz RTF weight, 7oz thrust.

Stock EDF55 = 18.3oz RTF weight, 11oz thrust. This is with the 300H motor.

And their own direct drive nonfan setup; EDP300H = 18.3oz flying weight, 17.4oz thrust.

One BP-21 gives 21oz of thrust so an A-10 should go vert! That is with an 8-4 prop and 11.1V.. I have to go to a 7-5 prop for my Stryker (so it will fit between the fins) and the A-10 has even less clearance. It would be cool though to see how a Hog would fly with 2 of these, but I don't know how much thrust you could get out of a 5" prop on a BP-21???

At 1 point I thought of mounting 2 Park 400/4200 DD inrunners in the nacells with 3X3 props. Then I thought.....naw 1 big fat outrunner like Warren did will fit the bill. I can also get away with 1 ESC too!! Plus I think those motors are heavy for those wimpy nacells. They would break off with every landing.

CTD

iceman
01-27-2006, 11:08 PM
CTD

Thanks again for your help. I found out what to do about the controller also, nice to have someone to help when in need of knowledge. I will check the thread you posted and make a decision on what kind of motor/mount I will go for.

crast test dummie
01-27-2006, 11:11 PM
CTD

Thanks again for your help. I found out what to do about the controller also, nice to have someone to help when in need of knowledge. I will check the thread you posted and make a decision on what kind of motor/mount I will go for.
My pleasure, just keep me updated on what you do.

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
01-28-2006, 06:28 AM
I was able to get her all piced together tonight, so I will be able to fly her this weekend after all. I'll try not to crash her again. Besides I have to have an A-10 to fly while I'm buliding my new one.

I put a 10X4.7 ACP prop on tonight and ran her WOT for about 5 to 10 seconds. It pulled 12 AMPs at 119 watts.

I'm going to fly her on that prop tomorrow AM before work. I'm hoping to get a little more speed out of her. I hope I don't have to give up too much thrust. If I don't like the 10 inch prop I can just switch to the 11 incher. I hate to have to fly at WOT just to make her climb the way I want. I CAed most of it back together and then went back over some of the gaps with Gorilla Glue. That should fill any gaps when it expands. I also put a small piece of thin balsa [aprox 1 inch wide X 2.5 inches long] on the inside of the fuse as support by a major break. I did loose 2 pieces of foam somewhare, but no biggie. I'll have my slope kit next week, then I can start building her all over again.

CTD

crast test dummie
01-28-2006, 07:38 PM
Got her back in the air this AM and the best part is I didn't crash!! I flew her on a 10X4.7 ACP. It flew fine but I dont think it was more than a few MPH faster than the 11X7. Also I had to fly her at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle to keep her from wanting to slow down too much. I'm going to try a 10X7 to see if I can get some more speed out of her. I know the A-10 isn't suppose to be fast but I like a nice mix of speed and thrust for verticle performance. I also have a 9X7.5 ACP sitting around but I don't know if the Park450 motor will work well with that small of a prop.

I may end up getting a higher KV motor so I can run a smaller prop at a higher RPM. It was patchy rain this AM so I didn't even get to fly more than 3 to 5 min and I had to bring her in. I'm hpoing tomorrow will be better, however they are saying 80% chance of rain tomorrow too!
I ride a motor cycle in the summer months and usually I predict the weather better than the weather man. I guess we'll see.

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
01-29-2006, 03:20 AM
:mad: Rain!!:mad: Look at this! I'm doing my best anti-rain dance so we can fly tomorrow. I'm hoping it will fade to the east. Sorry in advance to our budds in Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, etc.

CTD

rahtware
01-29-2006, 07:51 AM
:mad: Rain!!:mad: Look at this! I'm doing my best anti-rain dance so we can fly tomorrow. I'm hoping it will fade to the east. Sorry in advance to our budds in Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, etc.

CTD

CTD

That can't be rain... I spent the winter of 69 in Wisconsin and don't remember it thawing out before I left in March!!!:( Haven't left Calif. since!;)

Crash Test Dummy
01-29-2006, 08:08 PM
CTD

That can't be rain... I spent the winter of 69 in Wisconsin and don't remember it thawing out before I left in March!!!:( Haven't left Calif. since!;)

You should have been here in 1967:eek: :eek: :eek: !! We got burried!! 1979 was bad too, but since then we have had pretty mild winters.

Ok heres some Ugly plane pictures. http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif You can see the balsa inside the fuse for added support. She isn't pretty but shes all mine.
Oh yea, heres 2 shots of the motor mounted too.
CTD

Crash Test Dummy
02-01-2006, 06:15 AM
I got 4 nice flights in on the A-10 today. One was with the 10X7 ACP and 3 other flights with the 11X8.5 I think I like the bigger on this lower KV motor. My slope kit should arrive on Wed. or Thurs. I think It's time to look for a higher KV motor. I'd like to run the smaller prop like Warren but I just don't think this lower KV motor will be happy with the small prop. The Manufacture says it will run with a 9X6 but i think my A-10 is a little porky for that prop. More to come.....

CTD

rahtware
02-01-2006, 08:51 AM
Please forgive me, but I have to ask... With all of that weight needed in the nose, why don't you just turn the Hog into a 'puller' instead of a pusher?:confused:

Crash Test Dummy
02-01-2006, 02:52 PM
Please forgive me, but I have to ask... With all of that weight needed in the nose, why don't you just turn the Hog into a 'puller' instead of a pusher?:confused:
I have never liked the way jet planes look with a prop on the nose. To me it just mucks up the looks of a scale jet. It's somehow easer for me to accept a prop on the back.

I didnt weigh the whole mess, but it was the whole stick of GWS puddy puls about 60 grams of lead wheel weights. I feel some of the lead can be removed, but we havn't had enough calm weather [when i have the time] to play with it. I don't even think I have her dialed in quite yet, still trimming. More later, I got to get out and fly a pack or two before work.:)

CTD

crast test dummie
02-01-2006, 11:11 PM
We had 28 mph gusting to 36 mph winds today so the A-10 was grounded. I did get to fly my Stryker though. I would climb her up to 200 or 300 ft. and dive her in at a really steep AOA. Man I swear she must have broke 100 MPH. Now, back on topic.

Last night I adjusted my ailerons both of them were down, almost like flaps. I adjusted them to a level position and now all I need is a little less wind to try it out. I'll bet I gain some speed, not having them sitting down acting like flaps or air breaks. I have to check with the LHS to see if my slope kit is in yet.

On this next build I'm going to put 2 servos in the wing for the ailerons. I did that on mt GWS Corsair and it was very chrisp handeling. I'm also going to look into setting up my elevator as a direct connection rather than using the long thin wire that is supplied in the kit. The elevator feels very vauge and mushy. The direct link should make it feel better.

CTD

rahtware
02-01-2006, 11:27 PM
I don't understand... The sky is gray and there is wet stuff falling..

OK, enough weather jokes, stuck indoors today so have been messing around with MotoCalc. I know I don't have all the correct numbers, but here are the results with what I could dig up...

MotOpinion - A-10
2000ft above Sea Level, 29.92inHg, 52°F

Motor: E-Flite Park 450; 890rpm/V; 0.69A no-load; 0.2 Ohms.
Battery: 24800 apogee (20C); 3 cells; 2480mAh @ 3.7V; 0.0688 Ohms/cell.
Speed Control: Castle Creations Phoenix 35; 0.0045 Ohms; High rate.
(didn't know which one you are using)
Drive System: 10.47; 10x4.7 (Pconst=1.11; Tconst=1) direct drive.
Airframe: A-10; 216sq.in; 25.5oz RTF; 17oz/sq.ft; Cd=0.044; Cl=0.37; Clopt=0.62; Clmax=1.08.
Stats: 49 W/lb in; 37 W/lb out; 21mph stall; 27mph opt; 36mph level; -15ft/min @ -0.3°; -223ft/min @ -5.3°.

Warning:

·MotoCalc was unable to determine a throttle setting for hands-off cruise or best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed, so zero airspeed and full throttle will be used instead. These results will not likely be meaningful for actual flying conditions.
·Inability to determine a throttle setting for an airspeed usually means the model is not capable of reaching the required speed with the given power system, or the airfoil information has not been specified correctly.

Possible Power System Problems:

·The estimated steady-state still-air battery temperature at zero airspeed and full throttle (greater than 200°F) is higher than the suggested maximum temperature for this cell type (140°F). This could result in battery pack damage unless adequate cooling airflow is provided and/or run times are kept short. A lower current would also decrease the battery temperature.
·Current can be decreased by using fewer cells, a smaller diameter or lower pitched propeller, a higher gear ratio, or some combination of these methods.

Power System Notes:

·The full-throttle motor current at zero airspeed (8.4A) falls approximately between the motor's maximum efficiency current (5.7A) and its current at theoretical maximum output (23.7A), thus making effective use of the motor.

Possible Aerodynamic Problems:

·The static pitch speed (30mph) is much less than 2.5 times the stall speed (21mph), which may result in reduced performance at typical flying speeds and a low maximum speed. This situation is usually acceptable for an electric sailplane.
·Pitch speed can be increased by using a higher pitched and/or smaller diameter propeller, a higher cell count, or some combination of these methods.
·The model's maximum level flight speed (27mph) is less than one and a half times the stall speed (21mph). With such a narrow range of flying speeds, the model will require careful piloting in order not to stall.
·Maximum speed can be increased by using a higher pitched and/or smaller diameter propeller, a higher cell count, or some combination of these methods.
·Stall speed can be reduced by reducing weight, increasing the wing area, or using a thicker and/or more cambered airfoil.
·The diameter (10.0in) to pitch (4.7in) ratio is greater than 2:1, which will result in reduced propeller efficiency at flying speeds. An appropriate smaller diameter, higher pitched propeller would improve this.

Aerodynamic Notes:

·With a wing loading of 17oz/sq.ft, a model of this size will have flying characteristics suited to an experienced pilot. The plane will fly fast, and be readily able to handle fairly strong winds.
·At the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed, the excess-thrust (0oz) to weight (25.5oz) ratio is 0:1, which will give no climb ability and no accelaration. It will likely be impossible to maintain altitude.

General Notes:

·This analysis is based on calculations that take motor heating effects into account.
·These calculations are based on mathematical models that may not account for all limitations of the components used. Always consult the power system component manufacturers to ensure that no limits (current, rpm, etc.) are being exceeded.

What do you think?

rahtware
02-01-2006, 11:33 PM
The 10-7 looks much better...

MotOpinion - A-10
2000ft above Sea Level, 29.92inHg, 52°F

Motor: E-Flite Park 450; 890rpm/V; 0.69A no-load; 0.2 Ohms.
Battery: 24800 apogee (20C); 3 cells; 2480mAh @ 3.7V; 0.0688 Ohms/cell.
Speed Control: Castle Creations Phoenix 35; 0.0045 Ohms; High rate.
Drive System: 10.7; 10x7 (Pconst=1.11; Tconst=1) direct drive.
Airframe: A-10; 216sq.in; 25.5oz RTF; 17oz/sq.ft; Cd=0.044; Cl=0.37; Clopt=0.62; Clmax=1.08.
Stats: 57 W/lb in; 40 W/lb out; 21mph stall; 27mph opt @ 60% (80:12, 62°F); 36mph level @ 75% (52:40, 66°F); 804ft/min @ 19.4°; -223ft/min @ -5.3°.

Power System Notes:

The full-throttle motor current at the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed (9.3A) falls approximately between the motor's maximum efficiency current (5.6A) and its current at theoretical maximum output (23.2A), thus making effective use of the motor.

Possible Aerodynamic Problems:

The static pitch speed (40mph) is much less than 2.5 times the stall speed (21mph), which may result in reduced performance at typical flying speeds and a low maximum speed. This situation is usually acceptable for an electric sailplane.
Pitch speed can be increased by using a higher pitched and/or smaller diameter propeller, a higher cell count, or some combination of these methods.

Aerodynamic Notes:

With a wing loading of 17oz/sq.ft, a model of this size will have flying characteristics suited to an experienced pilot. The plane will fly fast, and be readily able to handle fairly strong winds.
The static thrust (17.2oz) to weight (25.5oz) ratio is 0.67:1, which will result in short take-off runs, and no difficulty taking off from grass surfaces (assuming sufficiently large wheels).
At the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed, the excess-thrust (8.7oz) to weight (25.5oz) ratio is 0.34:1, which will give strong climbs and rapid acceleration. This model will most likely readily loop from level flight, and have sufficient in-flight thrust for many aerobatic maneuvers.

General Notes:

This analysis is based on calculations that take motor heating effects into account.
These calculations are based on mathematical models that may not account for all limitations of the components used. Always consult the power system component manufacturers to ensure that no limits (current, rpm, etc.) are being exceeded.

rahtware
02-01-2006, 11:37 PM
And the 11.85

MotOpinion - A-10
2000ft above Sea Level, 29.92inHg, 52°F

Motor: E-Flite Park 450; 890rpm/V; 0.69A no-load; 0.2 Ohms.
Battery: 24800 apogee (20C); 3 cells; 2480mAh @ 3.7V; 0.0688 Ohms/cell.
Speed Control: Castle Creations Phoenix 35; 0.0045 Ohms; High rate.
Drive System: 11.85; 11x8.5 (Pconst=1.11; Tconst=1) direct drive.
Airframe: A-10; 216sq.in; 25.5oz RTF; 17oz/sq.ft; Cd=0.044; Cl=0.37; Clopt=0.62; Clmax=1.08.
Stats: 66 W/lb in; 42 W/lb out; 21mph stall; 27mph opt @ 51% (80:53, 62°F); 36mph level @ 63% (54:43, 66°F); 948ft/min @ 23.1°; -223ft/min @ -5.3°.

Power System Notes:

· At full-throttle and the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed, the motor is operating approximately between its maximum efficiency current (5.4A) and its current at theoretical maximum output (21.8A). However, it is operating at only 65% efficiency, which is significantly less than its theoretical maximum efficiency (76%). Efficiency may improve at reduced throttle settings.

Possible Aerodynamic Problems:

· The static pitch speed (41mph) is much less than 2.5 times the stall speed (21mph), which may result in reduced performance at typical flying speeds and a low maximum speed. This situation is usually acceptable for an electric sailplane.
· Pitch speed can be increased by using a higher pitched and/or smaller diameter propeller, a higher cell count, or some combination of these methods.
· The diameter (11.0in) to pitch (8.5in) ratio is less than 1.5:1, which will result in reduced propeller efficiency at low speeds (the propeller is stalled). Although this is not likely to affect flying characteristics, it may make take-off or hand launching difficult.

Aerodynamic Notes:

· With a wing loading of 17oz/sq.ft, a model of this size will have flying characteristics suited to an experienced pilot. The plane will fly fast, and be readily able to handle fairly strong winds.
· The static thrust (18.7oz) to weight (25.5oz) ratio is 0.73:1, which will result in very short take-off runs, no difficulty taking off from grass surfaces (assuming sufficiently large wheels), and steep climb-outs.
· At the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed, the excess-thrust (10.2oz) to weight (25.5oz) ratio is 0.4:1, which will give strong climbs and rapid acceleration. This model will most likely readily loop from level flight, and have sufficient in-flight thrust for many aerobatic maneuvers.

General Notes:

· This analysis is based on calculations that take motor heating effects into account.
· These calculations are based on mathematical models that may not account for all limitations of the components used. Always consult the power system component manufacturers to ensure that no limits (current, rpm, etc.) are being exceeded.

crast test dummie
02-02-2006, 02:05 AM
Larry,

Thanks for all the info. Is that directly printed from motocalk? I have never used that program. I just have my little watt meter, as long as it meters out within the range the maufacture specs I figure I'm usually good to go. I was also looking at the 9X7.5, the E-Flight specs say you can run the motor with a 9 to 12 inch prop. But I wasn't sure if the 9 incher would fly her well. Another guy at RCG said he ran the 9X6 prop and it flew good. He has the same motor as mine.

BTW, I don't know how much effect it would have but I'm running a Great Planes 25 AMP Silver Series ESC, not a CC ESC.

Thanks again,
CTD

rahtware
02-02-2006, 03:18 AM
Yes it is an "opinion" that they give when you ask for a report on your setup. I don't think the ESC is going to make that much of a differance, and they don't have the GP ESC on their list.

Here is the info for the 9075 prop:

MotOpinion - A-10
200ft above Sea Level, 29.92inHg, 58°F

Motor: E-Flite Park 450; 890rpm/V; 0.69A no-load; 0.2 Ohms.
Battery: 24800 apogee (20C); 3 cells; 2480mAh @ 3.7V; 0.0688 Ohms/cell.
Speed Control: Castle Creations Phoenix 25; 0.0065 Ohms; High rate.
Drive System: 9-75; 9x7.5 (Pconst=1.11; Tconst=1) direct drive.
Airframe: A-10; 216sq.in; 25.5oz RTF; 17oz/sq.ft; Cd=0.044; Cl=0.37; Clopt=0.62; Clmax=1.08.
Stats: 51 W/lb in; 37 W/lb out; 20mph stall; 27mph opt @ 56% (83:54, 68°F); 35mph level @ 69% (54:50, 72°F); 711ft/min @ 17.5°; -218ft/min @ -5.3°.

Power System Notes:

· The full-throttle motor current at the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed (8.7A) falls approximately between the motor's maximum efficiency current (5.6A) and its current at theoretical maximum output (23.4A), thus making effective use of the motor.

Possible Aerodynamic Problems:

· The static pitch speed (47mph) is less than 2.5 times the stall speed (20mph), which may result in reduced performance at typical flying speeds and a low maximum speed. This situation is usually acceptable for an electric sailplane or other slow-flying model.
· Pitch speed can be increased by using a higher pitched and/or smaller diameter propeller, a higher cell count, or some combination of these methods.
· The diameter (9.0in) to pitch (7.5in) ratio is less than 1.5:1, which will result in reduced propeller efficiency at low speeds (the propeller is stalled). Although this is not likely to affect flying characteristics, it may make take-off or hand launching difficult.

Aerodynamic Notes:

· With a wing loading of 17oz/sq.ft, a model of this size will have flying characteristics suited to an experienced pilot. The plane will fly fast, and be readily able to handle fairly strong winds.
· The static thrust (13.9oz) to weight (25.5oz) ratio is 0.55:1, which will result in short take-off runs, and no difficulty taking off from grass surfaces (assuming sufficiently large wheels).
· At the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed, the excess-thrust (8.1oz) to weight (25.5oz) ratio is 0.32:1, which will give strong climbs and rapid acceleration. This model will most likely readily loop from level flight, and have sufficient in-flight thrust for many aerobatic maneuvers.

General Notes:

· This analysis is based on calculations that take motor heating effects into account.
· These calculations are based on mathematical models that may not account for all limitations of the components used. Always consult the power system component manufacturers to ensure that no limits (current, rpm, etc.) are being exceeded.

rahtware
02-02-2006, 03:22 AM
And here is the 9060:

MotOpinion - A-10
200ft above Sea Level, 29.92inHg, 58°F

Motor: E-Flite Park 450; 890rpm/V; 0.69A no-load; 0.2 Ohms.
Battery: 24800 apogee (20C); 3 cells; 2480mAh @ 3.7V; 0.0688 Ohms/cell.
Speed Control: Castle Creations Phoenix 25; 0.0065 Ohms; High rate.
Drive System: 9-6; 9x6 (Pconst=1.11; Tconst=1) direct drive.
Airframe: A-10; 216sq.in; 25.5oz RTF; 17oz/sq.ft; Cd=0.044; Cl=0.37; Clopt=0.62; Clmax=1.08.
Stats: 46 W/lb in; 35 W/lb out; 20mph stall; 27mph opt @ 68% (81:03, 69°F); 35mph level @ 85% (53:32, 73°F); 590ft/min @ 14.4°; -218ft/min @ -5.3°.

Power System Notes:

· The full-throttle motor current at the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed (7A) falls approximately between the motor's maximum efficiency current (5.8A) and its current at theoretical maximum output (24.4A), thus making effective use of the motor.

Possible Aerodynamic Problems:

· The static pitch speed (39mph) is much less than 2.5 times the stall speed (20mph), which may result in reduced performance at typical flying speeds and a low maximum speed. This situation is usually acceptable for an electric sailplane.
· Pitch speed can be increased by using a higher pitched and/or smaller diameter propeller, a higher cell count, or some combination of these methods.

Aerodynamic Notes:

· With a wing loading of 17oz/sq.ft, a model of this size will have flying characteristics suited to an experienced pilot. The plane will fly fast, and be readily able to handle fairly strong winds.
· The static thrust (14.6oz) to weight (25.5oz) ratio is 0.57:1, which will result in short take-off runs, and no difficulty taking off from grass surfaces (assuming sufficiently large wheels).
· At the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed, the excess-thrust (6.8oz) to weight (25.5oz) ratio is 0.27:1, which will give strong climbs and rapid acceleration. This model will most likely readily loop from level flight, and have sufficient in-flight thrust for many aerobatic maneuvers.

General Notes:

· This analysis is based on calculations that take motor heating effects into account.
These calculations are based on mathematical models that may not account for all limitations of the components used. Always consult the power system component manufacturers to ensure that no limits (current, rpm, etc.) are being exceeded.

crast test dummie
02-02-2006, 03:57 AM
Larry,

Looking at all this data spins my head. I have been flying almost 2 years now, I have learned alot but I'm not real clear on which prop combo is best. The 9X7.5 looks to have the fastest pitch speed, what do you think. I'm a little worried about the hand launch with the 9X7.5. Tomorrow AM the weather mam says 1 MPH winds!!!! I'll have to go to sleep early so I can get up xtra early to fly in the still air.

CTD

rahtware
02-02-2006, 04:18 AM
Hey, don't feel alone, I've been messing with this hobby for 25 years and STILL the data makes my head spin...

I agree with you about the 9075 prop. I think it comes down to how fast you can run before tossing the plane! When I was flying my Electra on the old NiCad car packs I had to run all out and then throw as hard as I could (accurately) or it just wouldn't have enough airspeed to stay aloft.

I think once it is flying it will have enough speed to handle winds below 25mph. There is a good side to building heavy... Wind penetration!

Thank goodness for LiPos!

crast test dummie
02-02-2006, 10:40 PM
I got 3 great flights in on her today. The 1st and 2nd flights was on a 10X7 ACP, lots of thrust and better speed than the 11X8.5 The 3rd was on the 9X7.5 It launched much easer than I expected, however I had to fly 3/4 to full throttle most of the flight.

The 9X7.5 may have been a little faster than the 10X7 but the speed advantage didn't out weight the awsome thrust of the 10X7. I can fly at 1/2 throttle with the 10X7 and I got 16 to 18 minutes of flight time on my 2480 3 cell Apogee pack. I'm picking up the slope kit today. I don't know how soon I'll start it, but at least I'll have it.

I want to look into putting rudders on it. I think I read somewhere that someone did it. I think it was on a EDF version, I'm not sure how the linkage would work on mine with the pusher prop. I'll have to try a search.

CTD

rahtware
02-02-2006, 11:28 PM
CTD

Forgive me for my pessimism.

My first E-Powered planes were so under-powered that You had to cut, grind or rip off anything that didn't have to do with the power system. The airframes had to be, as light as you could make them or the plane would never fly... Not to mention the "mini" flight packs with ounce+ servos, armor plated receivers and batteries weighed by the pound!

It is hard for me to grasp the idea of adding lead to an E-powered plane!

Truth is, a heaver wing loading means the plane can fly in higher winds... That can be a plus sometimes.

Good luck, and good flying.

crast test dummie
02-04-2006, 07:10 PM
Here in the windy city [Chicago] It's don't hurt to run a little heavy. But I know what you mean.

Yesterday I picked up my slpoe kit at the LHS. I also got some of that flat CF stock in a 1/8th size 40 inches long and I don't recall the thickness. I'm thinking of trying it in the wing like Av8er48 showed us in your stryker rod install thread.

CTD

Bill G
02-04-2006, 07:18 PM
Yesterday I picked up my slpoe kit at the LHS. I also got some of that flat CF stock in a 1/8th size 40 inches long and I don't recall the thickness.
CTD

Use the CF in the fuse also. I used the same stuff to line both fuse halves, before building. Simply file the end sharp and route it through the foam bulkheads in the fuse. The long A-10 fuse can end up in pieces without it. I did the wing bracing you mentioned also.

crast test dummie
02-04-2006, 08:06 PM
Use the CF in the fuse also. I used the same stuff to line both fuse halves, before building. Simply file the end sharp and route it through the foam bulkheads in the fuse. The long A-10 fuse can end up in pieces without it. I did the wing bracing you mentioned also.
Yup,

If you look back a few pages you will see I fiber glassed the airframe and epoxied CF robbon from the tail up to the wing saddle. Post #11 on page 1 shows some pictures.

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
02-05-2006, 07:58 PM
Last night I sanded all the little nubbs off of the main wing. Thats about all I have had time to do on the new fuse. I was looking at the tail section and it looks like it would be easy to cut a hole in the side of the fuse and mount a hs-55 back there. This would give me a direct link to the elevator C-Horn. I'm hoping it will make the elevator feel crisper than the set up from the factory, that thin music wire is really wimpy. I will also take a piece of thin ply and cut it to fit the servo for xtra support since this thin foam wasn't made to suppport a servo. I'll have to try to keep the servo as far forward as possible in the side of the fuse. I don't need any more weight in the tail. I'll post pictures if and or when I can ever get enough time to actually start the build.

CTD

cyclops2
02-06-2006, 02:26 AM
Most of you are sweating the hand launches in still air?

Make a SIMPLE, rubber powered bungee cord type of launcher.

A simple slotted 2" X 4" X whatever you can fit in a car or roof rack.

Then it is a all surfaces at neutral takeoff.

Make the sliding block high enough for the pushers.

Loads of creative guys can post working sketches that are in use.:)

cyclops2
02-06-2006, 02:39 AM
Crash. It is time for you to master the pull--pull servo hook ups.
then all the RC weight can be in the nose and REALLY cut down on the lead up there.
1 oz in the tail is almost 2 in the nose.
First is the batt., the speed control, servos, rec.--ant. is then laid inside, no problems in mine.
Motor leads twisted about 2 turns per inch and taped on 1 side. Rec.ant taped on the other side.

My breaks are all in the nose.--I did mount all the RC on a piece of Balsa.

Great crash protection.

crast test dummie
02-06-2006, 04:59 PM
Crash. It is time for you to master the pull--pull servo hook ups.
then all the RC weight can be in the nose and REALLY cut down on the lead up there.
1 oz in the tail is almost 2 in the nose.
First is the batt., the speed control, servos, rec.--ant. is then laid inside, no problems in mine.
Motor leads twisted about 2 turns per inch and taped on 1 side. Rec.ant taped on the other side.

My breaks are all in the nose.--I did mount all the RC on a piece of Balsa.

Great crash protection.

Do you have a pull pull set up on your A-10? Got any pictures?
How does a pull pull allow me to put everything in the nose? I have my battery in the forward hatch. The majority of the trouble I had was in the CG. I read many reports that said the factory CG was wrong, people were saying the cg could be as far back as 80mm from the LE of the wing. I should have just went with the old the saying.

Nose heavy planes fly bad and tail heavy planes fly once!

I didn't have any trouble with hand launching once I got the CG correct.

CTD

cyclops2
02-07-2006, 09:31 PM
I Have a problem with C G's as stated in the plans or instructions.

I ALWAYS set the wing and horizontal to be at the same angle--parallel.

As a result, I test toss my planes in 2' high field grass. That step makes sure the plane glides perfectly with all controls set to neutral.
I rarely have the recommended C G point.

rahtware
02-07-2006, 11:53 PM
I Have a problem with C G's as stated in the plans or instructions.

I ALWAYS set the wing and horizontal to be at the same angle--parallel.

As a result, I test toss my planes in 2' high field grass. That step makes sure the plane glides perfectly with all controls set to neutral.
I rarely have the recommended C G point.

You realize that a flat-bottom wing that has the bottom set parallel to the Horz-stab is actually sitting at a positive angle to the stab... Got an incidence meter? Check it out.:cool:

cyclops2
02-08-2006, 02:07 AM
No, I did not know that. But, doing it this way gives me long smooth glides and all the planes have very similar flight handling characteristics.

Edit: All my scratch planes have the same air foil for wing and tail. Clark Y's.-------I put a long straight edge on both and even tho they are parallel, they are not parallel ?

rahtware
02-08-2006, 07:54 AM
No, I did not know that. But, doing it this way gives me long smooth glides and all the planes have very similar flight handling characteristics.

Edit: All my scratch planes have the same air foil for wing and tail. Clark Y's.-------I put a long straight edge on both and even tho they are parallel, they are not parallel ?
Interesting curveball... If both surfaces are Clark Y then both are at a positive angle to the thrust line (if lined up with the bottom of the wing/stab. This would cause a plane to rise with power, but more or less still parallel to flight path. Please forgive my crude drawing..
7063

The thin lines through the airfoils represent the (true) angles of incidence.

cyclops2
02-10-2006, 05:38 PM
I found that by using Clark Y's in the elevator and medium symetrical rudders, the stall speeds are slow enough that I, at 68, can almost run beside them in a very light breeze.
The sym. rudder stops that tail waggle right down to stall speed.

I actually got all this from the 4' foamies at Walmart that I copied. They are real floaters when trimmed out.

crast test dummie
02-10-2006, 05:45 PM
I found that by using Clark Y's in the elevator and medium symetrical rudders, the stall speeds are slow enough that I, at 68, can almost run beside them in a very light breeze.
The sym. rudder stops that tail waggle right down to stall speed.

I actually got all this from the 4' foamies at Walmart that I copied. They are real floaters when trimmed out.

Ok, I am still a newby, even though I have been flying for the last 2 years so, what is a Clark Y's. I have also thought that rudders would be a nice addition to the A-10. I hate the way it turns sometimes. It's really bad with a tail wind. Can you post some pictures of your set up?

CTD

cyclops2
02-10-2006, 05:49 PM
Thanks for the logic of the Clark Y's. It explaines the ease that the 6' China Clipper breaks loose once the speed is enough. I do not have to yank it up and then fight wild pitching. It still needs 200' on glass, but it lifts off very even with no up and down problems. It looks like a LOAD of old fart airplane lifting. :)

rahtware
02-10-2006, 06:16 PM
Thanks for the logic of the Clark Y's. It explaines the ease that the 6' China Clipper breaks loose once the speed is enough. I do not have to yank it up and then fight wild pitching. It still needs 200' on glass, but it lifts off very even with no up and down problems. It looks like a LOAD of old fart airplane lifting. :)

I love this old fable about the development of the Clark Y airfoil...

It seems that an airplane builder, before the takeover of design by engineers, was working late and fretting over a good airfoil for a plane he was working on. In pacing the hanger he stepped on some oil and then on one of the papers that had fallen off his desk. Upset, he picked it up and as he was about to throw it away he noticed the curve of the line from toe to instep. He decided to use it and the rest is history...

Like I said it is a fable, but hints at the simplicity of one of the most utilitarian of airfoils.

Does anyone knows the true story of it's developement?

cyclops2
02-12-2006, 07:10 PM
I clogged my picture poster. BUUT . I can scan the complete and fully assembled tail of the A-10 so you can see the airfoil, hinge and the 4 servo setup I used to standardize all surfaces.

Could you post the pictures if it would help someone else ?

Rich

cyclops2
02-12-2006, 07:48 PM
I scanned the Tail surfaces, rudder, landing gear housing and a engine housing.

Bill G
02-12-2006, 07:53 PM
While on the A-10 subject, I built mine with fully removable gear, including steerable nose gear. It uses the aileron servo to steer the nose wheel also, so no added weight of an additional servo. I didn't really catch on when I posted it before, maybe because it looked like extra work. Its actually easy to build this way, and the nose gear removes and installs in seconds, with no tools.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=365381

cyclops2
02-12-2006, 08:26 PM
That is the SMARTEST AND BEST of all possibilites!! LOVE IT. 2 Y connectors and your home ?
Windy--no gear------Calm-- gear on. Love it more.

Bill G
02-13-2006, 04:04 AM
That is the SMARTEST AND BEST of all possibilites!! LOVE IT. 2 Y connectors and your home ?
Windy--no gear------Calm-- gear on. Love it more.

Give it a try. The weight savings of a 6 gram servo helps.

rahtware
03-31-2006, 09:12 AM
CTD

I don't know what was wrong with your A-10... Last weekend I watched a stock one doing rolls and loops from level flight... It buzzed like a chainsaw as it flew a circuit of the field inverted… Quite an impressive flyer!

And now for the other side of the story...

I was out flying with a new group of guys and one of them brought out his A-10. It seems that it was a local joke amongst the group and they all stopped flying to watch the show.

The pilot walked, a condemned man, out to the center of the field. After a hand launch that would have qualified him for a closer on any major league team, the A-10 set of on a very faltering circuit of the field. From my vantage point I thought I could hear the stall warning buzzers going off as it careened drunkenly by. After the required circuit he brought it down and carried it back, thankful that the humiliation was over for another week.

I happened to walk by, with a fresh pack for my Stryker, as he was pulling out the battery from the A-10. I looked at the battery compartment, then at the 2A 3s LiPo in my hand... then back to the battery compartment, the plugs matched... I think it could fit I said. He looked at me, then at the battery in my hand, I watched as the dark-side descend over him like a cloud...

With a little squeezing we got the LiPo in the compartment and the cover on... I told him to keep it under 2/3ds throttle or he would fry the motors for sure, he agreed... As he walked back out through the other pilots a hush settled, could it be that he was actually going to suffer through a 2nd flight in one day?

All that changed when he hit the throttle and the little 55s made a sound like mad bees in a jar! Off took the A-10 with just the slightest toss and... Well, you already know the rest.

crast test dummie
03-31-2006, 04:58 PM
Larry,

I'm not sure what you mean, ["I don't know what was wrong with your A-10"... ].

My 1st A-10 had the tiny tiny motors in it and I lost interest in building it when I read that it couldn't get out of its own way.
I purchased that kit rite after I mastered my Slow Stick, Ha Ha Ha!
I'm glad now that I didn't build it with those motors, I would have piled it into the ground for sure.

I knew this kit was not the the best choice for a second plane but I have always loved the A-10 so I had to buy it. Then I read it was grossly underpowered and she got shelfed for 2+ years.

After 2+ years of flying under my belt I pulled her out and built her with twin Speed 400 brushed motors set up as pushers. I couldn't believe what a nice floater it was. It flew great but I wanted more thrust than the small props could offer.

Thats when I did my glassed A-10 with the Bl outrunner motor in the tail. The trouble I had with that plane was CG related. I had heard the CG in the Manual was not rite and I got some bad info on RCG. and she crashed due to a tail heavy condition. After I got her sorted out it was a great flyer!!

Unfortunately, she met her demise due to a lack in judgment on my part!! Augh! I did a loop from too low of an altitude and piled her on her nose on an Asphalt parking lot. End of story. All of the equipment survived the crash with the exception of my 2480 Mah Apogee 3 cell. It took a good hit deforming the pack a bit. However, After a week of storage in a clay pot it never puffed!!!
I'm still using the pack [with caution] in lower AMP draw applications [22 AMP's or less] and it works great. They are some tough lipos or I got lucky.

Well I have a slope kit waiting to be built. I just haven't got to it yet. I really would like to get her built for this summers flying season. I'm also ordering an Cermark BD-5 pusher jet soon. It should be a fast build with its Fiberglass fuse, then the A-10 is next to be built.

CTD

rahtware
03-31-2006, 05:41 PM
CTD

I didn't mean any offence...

When I wrote that last post I was laughing to myself the whole time remembering the incidence, I guess it didn't come off as funny as I was seeing it.

Truth is I have never seen such an underpowered plane as the stock A-10... This one had the 55mm fans and 300 motors... I can't imagine how the 100/50mm powered one could even fly at all! What made it even more hilarious (you had to be there) was the attitude of the group and the pilot towards the "required" flight. They were so solemn I actually expected to see the other guys remove their hats when the pilot took to the field...

The other side of the story was how the little A-10 woke up when it was flown on the 11.1V battery! A whole different plane, I could see why you like it so... It wasn't the fastest thing in the sky that day, but it sure was a crowd pleaser. We figured, with throttle control he was pumping about 9 -10 Vs into the motors.... Sure they will fry eventually, but now he (and the group) saw the potential of the plane when it has enough power...

crast test dummie
03-31-2006, 06:37 PM
Larry,

No offence was taken. I was laughing along with you. My buddy purchased the A-10 with the 300 motors and 55mm fans. It flys pretty good on 3S and also on 8 2/3rds A cells. However we refer to it as the flying egg, I breaks on the softest landings. It repairs easy but it is very fragile. Thats why I glass mine.

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
04-03-2006, 01:19 AM
My A-10 keeps giving me dirty looks, sitting over there in pieces in It's box. I wants to be built, bad. It will have to wait for 2 or 3 more weeks. I have a Cermark BD-5 pusher Jet coming this week and that will get my love 1st. I really can't wait to get to work on the A-10 I miss flying it. Any of you guys been flying yours??

CTD

ExtremeRC
04-03-2006, 02:51 AM
I was flying mine yesterday! Been through a real debacle with it the last month, I started off with 150 size 3400Kv motors on the 55-150 fans, they pulled 8 amps each WOT but are rated to 14. Am using 3s 1800mah 20c pack now and it maintains the 16 amps without problem, voltage staying over 11v.

Flight?? fast in a straight line, but sluggish in turns, I need to play with the CG and the thrust line of the nacelles (this was hinted by another member) CG is currently about 51mm. Could also be because it weighs 24 ounces! Glass wing with poly, and most of the fuse has ended up with glass on it.

I got hold of 4400Kv motors from the same company, and they screamed a bit harder than the 3400, but pulled 31 amps! Battery could handle it no probs, but not the motors, rated to 12A each, after a couple of WOT passes one motor burnt out at the top of a loop and she stalled, came down with the wind behind her (too low in the fist place :D) and went in about 20 degrees angle, snapped the front off the fuse at the wing, and the tail off just in front of the stab. Clean breaks due to the glass, easy to stick it back together, no damage to any of the internals.

Stuck the 3400Kv motors back in and have been flying it around at 16 amps all up, can fly flat out the whole session and everything is just warm. I am thinking I need a pair of 2s 1500mah in series, so I got 4s, coz these motors have a heap more current capability than they are pulling now..

My next A10 after all the development work has gone into this, will be glassed again, with one coat only of Poly, wiped off as much as possible. I also now know what to cut out inside the fuse, much easier to do it while its in 2 halves!!! ;)

The glassing is a definite plus, the nose of mine got a few creases but no crush at all when it crashed, it broke the front off because I cut out the canopy, this weakens the nose a bit for impacts, but in a way it saved the internals, I had soft polyurethane foam in the front of the nose to cushion the battery, it worked!

Landing without gear is a breeze when its glassed, I fly on grass playing fields only, and have not put a mark on it when landing. I glassed the wing, stab, control surfaces, and front of fuse up to the nacelles, and I also used small pieces of glass across the pylons from fuse to nacelle, this removed the high frequency vibes. Did not glass rudders or nacelles themselves, and have not broken them yet!

I am getting a pair of wemotec mini fans and some hyperion motors this week, will slice open my nacelles and remove the old gear, once I have sorted out all the testing with the new fans I can then build them into a slope kit and make a nice job of it, knowing how it flys, its limitations, means the risk of damage drops enourmously on the second one.

Why do I not use props and pushers?? Its a JET GODAMNIT!!! :eek: :D really guys, this thing about jets with props, its just not on!!

iceman
04-03-2006, 09:14 AM
CTD

Due to bad weather for quite some time I have not maidened my A-10 yet. I am still waiting for the rain to stop and the snow to disappear. I will let you know how things turns out.

crast test dummie
04-04-2006, 03:05 AM
Mocca,

Sorry but I like the A-10 in a pusher config. It has so much thrust. I like EDF's but I didn't want to put 300 bucks into a GWS foamy. I glass mine, I really feel it is needed on this paper tiger. Good luck with yours, post some video if you can. I love the sound of the twin fans.

Iceman,

Thanks for chiming in bud. i hope the weather improves for you. you are going to love the A-10, it's such a nice flyer.

CTD

Bill G
04-04-2006, 07:16 AM
Just got some Feigo 12mm 5300kv motors in the mail other day. May just have to use them on mine. The idea of the 150W out of less than 2oz of motors is pretty appealing. Still not the same thing as EDF55s with 20mm brushless motors, but light, and can run off a 3s-1320 Prolite with ease. I've seen videos of this config and it looks pretty good.

crast test dummie
05-23-2006, 12:21 AM
Bill,

Did you ever put those motors in the A-10? How did it work out for you? I still havn't started on my slope kit. I should get my butt in gear, I love the way the A-10 flys.

CTD

firemanbill
05-23-2006, 02:47 AM
Here is my A-10 may she rest in pieces!:eek: I hear so much about the underpowered problems of this plane and I agree to a point but the real
A-10 is not and never will be a fast fighter jet! The real deal was however tough as nails which the GWS bird is not!:(

My bird was stock with the 300's and I had a good 30 flights on it before she went nose in from about 100 feet up with no control whatsoever for some unknown reason. Most people may not agree but you just have to get used to a slow flying tank with an A-10. It's like an M-1 Abrahms with wings.

When I was in the desert for the first Gulf War we had one come in all shot up. Initial call was for flight control problems. When we went to set up for the landing, (I was Crash/Fire/Rescue then) we figured out it was a lot more than that. 1 engine was all but gone, holes in the canopy, all three tires flat, leaking every fluid it had on board. This guy topped a hill and on the downside wass opened up on by AA gunfire. once he landed and skidded to a stop we counted over 400 bullet holes in this plane, and he flew it over 300 miles back to our base like that

One tip I learned early on was to fill the nose with foam fill insulation. That reall toughened it up a lot in that area. The thing was paper thin and sometimes broke while I was looking at it... I sure did like it though

Here is the before and after of A-10 tail number 001. 002 will be built some day, maybe sooner rather than later.

crast test dummie
05-23-2006, 03:09 AM
Bill,

Thats too bad it crashed. Do another one!! I fiber glassed mine and it really made a hugh improvement. I like your idea about filling the nose with expanding foam. You may recall, I put a park 450 outrunner in the tailcone of mine. It flew real nice until I did a loop too close to terra firma, oops! I thought the elevator needed a bit more control so this time I'm mounting a servo in the side of the fuse with a direct link to the elevator horn. The thin wire that comes with the kit is a little weak and can flex even though I tacked the rod with epoxy.

My buddy Raynet11 runs his stock with the EDF55 and 300 brushed motors. It sometimes breaks even on soft landings, LOL!!! You might even be able to repair yours. One Sunday he nosed her into a cement B-Ball court, man it was in a zillon pieces and he got it back together. He just collected all the foam in a bag, too it home and put the puzzle back together. I couldn't believe what a nice job he did. If I hadnt seen the crash myself I wouldn't have believed it was the same plane.

I don't recall if I posted videos earler in the thread so here are some links.

http://media.putfile.com/Low-in-the-weed-
http://media.putfile.com/A-10-launch
http://media.putfile.com/straifing-rolls
http://media.putfile.com/D-Day13

I'm also going to put dual servos in the wing for the ailerons. BTW, thanks for your service in the gulf!!! That was a great story about the A-10 that got shot up. It has always been one of my favorite planes.

CTD

firemanbill
05-23-2006, 03:21 AM
Thanks CTD.

Another one is high on my priority list.

I like the idea of dual aileron servos and one in the tail for the elevator. I added rudders to mine and i think that really helped for the low slow turns as well as landings. It kept it nice and level while lining up for a landing.

I think if I would have had my spektrum radio back then, last October is when it bit it, I would still have it today.

I'll let you know when I start the new one.

But first there is this thing of a scratchbuilt C-5 I have been thinking about!:eek:
Bill

btw the vids aren't working...

ExtremeRC
05-23-2006, 07:51 AM
Well I took a different take on my second A10, didnt change the control rods, just rethought it all out, take a look and see the end result!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513322

crast test dummie
05-25-2006, 01:26 AM
Bill,

Do you have any pictures of how you set up the rudders? I like that Idea!! It would smooth out the turns quite a bit, although I like doing the bank and yank with the A-10. It looks very sale in that move. I couldn't get the 1st video to play either but the other 3 worked fine. Try them again.

mocca,

I'll have to look at your pix on my home computer, my work computer won't display any photos on RCG for some odd reason and my IT department won't fix it for me cause it isn't work related. It's wierd I can see the posted pix here but not on RCG.

CTD

firemanbill
05-25-2006, 11:42 PM
Bill,

Do you have any pictures of how you set up the rudders? I like that Idea!! It would smooth out the turns quite a bit, although I like doing the bank and yank with the A-10. It looks very sale in that move. I couldn't get the 1st video to play either but the other 3 worked fine. Try them again.

mocca,

I'll have to look at your pix on my home computer, my work computer won't display any photos on RCG for some odd reason and my IT department won't fix it for me cause it isn't work related. It's wierd I can see the posted pix here but not on RCG.

CTD

CTD I do not have any pics of the remains but I'll see if I can put it into words.

Basically I ran a control rod front to back as I mentioned and used a mini ez connector from dubro in the middle at the servo, front hooked to nose wheel and the back came out the top of the fuse at the center of the rear. I the used a piece of tubing to go top to bottom with a washer and screw at the bottom and a L shaped servo horn at the top. I connected them loosely enough for the assembly to pivot and secured the screws with thread lock. From the back of the horn I hooked the two rudders together with control rods and hooked the servo rod onto the other end of the L. pretty straight forward but worked really well.

You are forcing me to buy another one now so I can take pics to show you how I did it! Can I use you as an excuse to the wife for bringing another kit home?:D

Got your vids to work too. Awesome!

Bill

Old Fart
05-26-2006, 02:01 AM
Has anyone run the A-10 on the HiMax 2105-4100 with the new 55-300 fans? Considering that (as I already have one motor).

If I have to go to (2) new motors, what's the hot ticket for 2S? 3S?

firemanbill
05-26-2006, 03:01 AM
Jeff I'd say you would have more than ample power with that setup with the 2105's. I am thinking of something like that when, not if, I get my next one.

crast test dummie
05-26-2006, 03:37 AM
CTD I do not have any pics of the remains but I'll see if I can put it into words.

Basically I ran a control rod front to back as I mentioned and used a mini ez connector from dubro in the middle at the servo, front hooked to nose wheel and the back came out the top of the fuse at the center of the rear. I the used a piece of tubing to go top to bottom with a washer and screw at the bottom and a L shaped servo horn at the top. I connected them loosely enough for the assembly to pivot and secured the screws with thread lock. From the back of the horn I hooked the two rudders together with control rods and hooked the servo rod onto the other end of the L. pretty straight forward but worked really well.

You are forcing me to buy another one now so I can take pics to show you how I did it! Can I use you as an excuse to the wife for bringing another kit home?:D

Got your vids to work too. Awesome!

Bill

Thanks Bill,

Sure tell the wife it was all my fault. "Honey, look his name is dummy he won't get it unless build one and show him a picture!!" LOL!!:D

CTD

firemanbill
05-26-2006, 03:42 AM
you know.... that might just work:rolleyes: hmmmmmm... lol

crast test dummie
05-26-2006, 04:47 PM
Heck the slope kit is cheep! She should fall for it easy! LOL.

CTD

crast test dummie
05-26-2006, 05:16 PM
Heck the slope kit is cheep! She should fall for it easy! LOL.

CTD

firemanbill
05-26-2006, 05:19 PM
funny you should say that casue that is the thing I was considering. One of the fans survived but the other didn't, I have two from the B-2 kit I got that I never finished... but that's another story.

crast test dummie
05-26-2006, 05:26 PM
The stock GWS fan units are cheep anyway. Do the stock fans hold up well with the BL motor? Which motor were you running?

CTD

firemanbill
05-26-2006, 05:30 PM
I was running the stock motors. I had thought about brushless and may still do that. That would be really sweet!

Old Fart
05-26-2006, 05:32 PM
Jeff I'd say you would have more than ample power with that setup with the 2105's. I am thinking of something like that when, not if, I get my next one.

Might be the ticket then. I bought the 2015-4100 for my F-14, but then rvincent had to go and put twin LS ParkJets on his F-14, so now I've just _got_ to do that to mine :)

firemanbill
05-26-2006, 05:53 PM
Might be the ticket then. I bought the 2015-4100 for my F-14, but then rvincent had to go and put twin LS ParkJets on his F-14, so now I've just _got_ to do that to mine :)

don't ya just love it when they do that... gotta keep up now don't we?:D

Old Fart
05-26-2006, 06:01 PM
My problem is time. I just finished my GP Combat Corsair (maiden later today!) and still need to finish my replacement Formosa and F-86 before I can even start on the f-14. I also have a MicroJet that I'm putting a LS ParkJet on - it's still in the box. Somewhere along the line I want to build a P-38 too.

I told the office (LAX) that I'm taking two week's vacation just to build planes :)

firemanbill
05-26-2006, 06:07 PM
Sounds like me bud. I just recently finished my C-130 and Ultimate Bipe. Have been working them for a while. Need to finish the gws P-51 next. Am also building a 2332 Stroker motor to put into my Karmann Ghia and keeping up with my boys baseball games... it never stops...

Old Fart
05-26-2006, 06:20 PM
:)

Crash Test Dummy
05-27-2006, 05:22 AM
Holy cow you guys are making me dizzy with all the projects, LOL!!! :eek: Hummm, I'm currently trying to work on a GWS A-10, GWS Corsair, Fokker Endecker by Hanger 9, repair the gear on my Mini Ultra Stick, and I have a new Cremark BD-5 coming in a week or less!! I need a nap, LOL, and you call YOUR SELF an Old Fart, LOL!!;) I also have 3 other planes without gear that could become projects. If I could just get someone else to earn a living for me, I'd be set!!:rolleyes:

CTD

firemanbill
05-27-2006, 02:52 PM
If I could just get someone else to earn a living for me, I'd be set!!:rolleyes:

CTD

Now that sounds like a plan! When you figure that one out clue me in as well!:D

crast test dummie
05-27-2006, 03:19 PM
Ha H Ha Ha!!! Will do!

CTD

Old Fart
05-27-2006, 05:02 PM
Well, now I have a bit more work ahead of me before I start on the 'Hog :(

crast test dummie
05-27-2006, 05:53 PM
Old Fart,

Is that your GP combat corsair!!! Tell me it isn't so!! What happend? My buddy has one that he hasn't built yet. I have been eyeing that plane for some time. For now I'm flying my GWS corsair.

CTD

Old Fart
05-27-2006, 06:00 PM
Wish I could say it wasn't - but it is. ESC got so hot on flight 2 that it shed all it's IC's (and the motor wires) - nosed right in.

Ordered a new fuselage today (and a E-Flite 25 outrunner), she'll fly again!

Plane flew fantastic!

crast test dummie
05-27-2006, 07:54 PM
I think that 25 E-Flight might be a great motor for that plane. I run all outrunners, I have 1 Park 400/4200KV in a Himax GB but it isn't in a plane. i have seen too many GB failures ruin new planes, so I buy all outrunners. I'm thinking of puting the park 400 in a EDF down the road or I'll sell it. Good luck fixing her up. BTW how was it to launch by hand?

CTD

Old Fart
05-27-2006, 08:28 PM
Only GB planes I have are my 2025-5300/6:1 Tiger Moth 400, and this Corsair - so just one now :)

Maybe 1/2 throttle with the 10x5E, and point it up at a 45 degree angle - not much of a toss at all. Had about a 10mph wind yesterday. I'll see if my buddies got any pictures.

E-Flite 25 will probably get a 11.5E or so - closer to scale size.

crast test dummie
05-27-2006, 11:14 PM
Sounds like it is easy to launch. I have had real nice performance on a 11X8.5 APC. It will give you a lot more speed and the thrust will still be very good. Any pictures you have would be great.

CTD

Old Fart
05-28-2006, 02:15 AM
Here's a few of the "before" _sniff_ pictures :(

Crash Test Dummy
05-28-2006, 06:47 AM
Looks very nice, the sight of a Corsair in the air is a awsome sight!! I think it is my all time WWII fighter. You'll have it flying again, I hope you can get a video of her next maiden. Here is a link to my GWS foamy Corsair. In the video it's running a Himax 2816/0890 outrunner on the 11X8.5 prop. 3 cell TP 2100 Mah Lipo.

http://media.putfile.com/Corsair-some-inverted

CTD

ExtremeRC
05-28-2006, 12:25 PM
Hmmm Corsairs! I have one coming, the GWS version, going to glass it and stick one of my cheapy 1750Kv bell outrunners on it with APC E props, with my 1000Kv bell motor I am getting 650g thrust on 9060SF!

crast test dummie
05-29-2006, 09:38 PM
Hmmm Corsairs! I have one coming, the GWS version, going to glass it and stick one of my cheapy 1750Kv bell outrunners on it with APC E props, with my 1000Kv bell motor I am getting 650g thrust on 9060SF!

Thats the one I have, the GWS Corsair. I also glassed mine.

CTD

darkside212
05-30-2006, 04:19 AM
here's my attempt at a scratch built A10:
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7180

challeng71
07-19-2006, 04:27 AM
I'm looking for the best performing set-up, hop-up (keeping the fans).

i've read alot of posts about the EDF 55, not many about the EDF 50's. I'm looking to replace the motors with brushless.

What motors (Brand, Size), ESC (Amp), and Li-Po's (Mah) do you guys recommend using?

Thanks

ExtremeRC
07-19-2006, 02:42 PM
The only thing you can use in the EDF50 fans is the FeiGao or Medusa 5300Kv 12mm brushless motors. You will need a couple of 10 amp ESC's, and will need to build very light. It will be a park floater this way, but dont expect too much speed.

I have some more profects coming up, fan-tastic foam PANTHER, and maybe a SkyRay aswell, both running EDF40's with the Feigao 5800Kv motors, sweet little 20 sumthin inchers!!

challeng71
07-20-2006, 05:05 AM
thanks for the info!!!

As you can see i'm pretty new to this electric stuff. Ready for more questions?

what li-po battery pack should i use for these feigao 1208425's?? and cc phoenix 10A ESC's?

Thanks

ExtremeRC
07-20-2006, 12:44 PM
You will need a pack that can provide 16 amps comfortably, this means any 1200-1300 20c pack will keep the weight down and provide the performance. I use 3s1200 20c Korean packs, like PolyQuest and Hyperion, drawing 17 amps is no problem, battery does not get hot and holds its voltage. weight is 100 grams. You could go to something like an Electric Power 3s1300 20c lipo, its 116 grams and is much cheaper, still an excellent pack.

rahtware
07-20-2006, 03:55 PM
I loaned one of my CS 8C 2000mah packs to a friend with a stock 'Hog (stock motors) and it actually flew! (you have to witness the pathetic flight of a totally stock A-10 to understand why I said this.) He had to fly at 3/4 throttle as the stock motors would have burned up at full power with the 11.1V 3S pack. These are cheap packs, $24 each, but weigh 154g... The extra weight didn't seem to be a real problem, and the Feigao motors should work even better, but as with all things E-power, every ounce saved gives return in speed and performance.

http://www.commonsenserc.com/product_info.php?cPath=37_35&products_id=48

darkside212
07-20-2006, 05:02 PM
You will need a pack that can provide 16 amps comfortably, this means any 1200-1300 20c pack will keep the weight down and provide the performance. I use 3s1200 20c Korean packs, like PolyQuest and Hyperion, drawing 17 amps is no problem, battery does not get hot and holds its voltage. weight is 100 grams. You could go to something like an Electric Power 3s1300 20c lipo, its 116 grams and is much cheaper, still an excellent pack.


I'll second that, but only because I sell em' :D
Seriously thought EP20C packs rock! I have a couple 20C1300s comming in, and I usually give wattflyers a deal :cool:

otherwise an EP12C1700 11.1v pack would suffice:
THIS PACK IS SLIGHTLY SMALLER THAN THESE DIMENSIONS!
Dimension: 100 x 34 x 20 mm
3.94 x 1.34 x 0.79 in
Weight: 147g (5.1oz) lighter than this
Capacity: 1700mah
Voltage: 11.1V
Continuous Discharge Rate: 12C
Max Discharge Rate: 18C
retail ~$37

I'll also be testing the ELE900 in an EDF55 setup. I heard it puts out some power,but gets a little hot. I already tried the TP2030 and was disappointed. Here are specs on the ELE900:
KV: 4600 RPM/V
Diamension: 20x40 mm
Shaft Dia: 2.0mm
Weight: 57 g
Voltage: 6-12V
Idle Current: 1.0A
Max Current: 23A/60S
Resistance: 0.05ohm
retail is ~$25 ea.


I'll post my readings on the 900 saturday

Crash Test Dummy
07-20-2006, 05:34 PM
I loaned one of my CS 8C 2000mah packs to a friend with a stock 'Hog (stock motors) and it actually flew! (you have to witness the pathetic flight of a totally stock A-10 to understand why I said this.) He had to fly at 3/4 throttle as the stock motors would have burned up at full power with the 11.1V 3S pack. These are cheap packs, $24 each, but weigh 154g... The extra weight didn't seem to be a real problem, and the Feigao motors should work even better, but as with all things E-power, every ounce saved gives return in speed and performance.

http://www.commonsenserc.com/product_info.php?cPath=37_35&products_id=48

Ha Ha Ha Ha!!! LMAO!!

Larry,

My buddy Raynet11 has a stock A-10 with the brushed 55EDF's. We make fun of the little plane all the time. Ray calls it his paper tiger cause it will break if you look at it wrong! LOL!! I told him it looks like one of the space ships on the old Flash Gordan TV shows. If you recall they would ossilate nose to tail as they were flown across the screen. Too funny!

He runs his on 3S 1500 Kokams and the brushed motors have held up pretty good so far.

CTD

ExtremeRC
07-20-2006, 11:58 PM
Actually the EP1700 is a 20c pack, the 12c is 1800mah. The 12c packs are good for 10c continuous, the 20c packs are good for 15c continuous, this is how I rate them for my customers, and how I use them myself. Any more than this is burst, unless you want a very short life and a flying voltage under 10v.

Many of the 2030 and 2040 motors just dont have the torque necesarry to hold the fan speed needed, have run a few of them in the 55 & 64, the EDF64 is actually more efficient amps vs thrust but does not have the fan speed of the 55.

4600Kv is going to be too hot, it will pull just over 30 amps in an EDF55. Thrust wont be that much more for the amount of amps you are using, trust me I have tried it. The best combo is a high torque motor like the Hyperion Y series, and 3600Kv is the sweet spot for the EDF55, 17-19 amps WOT and if the pack is up to it, 430 grams per fan.

Crash Test Dummy
07-31-2006, 10:34 PM
I finally started working on my A-10 last night. I got everything glassed except the fuse. I put a CF spar in the elevator stab just like on my other A-10. I also picked up a flat CF rod to put in the main wing. With the glassing I usually wouldn't worry about using a CF rod, but this A-10 will have a BIG motor. I'm putting a E-Flight 480/1020KV outrunner in the tail cone pushing her with a 11X8.5 APC prop.

This motor turned my Mini Ultra Stick into a rocket ship. It was in the 27+ oz. range. The A-10 should weight a lot less than the all balsa plane. With the additional power and speed I figured I needed the spar just for insurance.

CTD

airbourne in japan
08-01-2006, 11:14 AM
i tried running my a10 on two arc 110 watt motors (look like himax 2025's), to keep the amps down to about 25 and it flew for about 5 minutes then dived straight down into the ground and crunched the fus. but i enjoyed flying it so i ordered another slope glider. the wing is ok, so i'll just build the fus. i'm going to use hyperion y22s motors, 3600kv and 25 amp cc poenix escs and run a hyperion 2500 3s 20c battery. i've read other people running this setup and it seems to work. one motor was damaged in the crash and the elevator servo, but i'm not sure what caused it.

Crash Test Dummy
08-01-2006, 06:25 PM
i tried running my a10 on two arc 110 watt motors (look like himax 2025's), to keep the amps down to about 25 and it flew for about 5 minutes then dived straight down into the ground and crunched the fus. but i enjoyed flying it so i ordered another slope glider. the wing is ok, so i'll just build the fus. i'm going to use hyperion y22s motors, 3600kv and 25 amp cc poenix escs and run a hyperion 2500 3s 20c battery. i've read other people running this setup and it seems to work. one motor was damaged in the crash and the elevator servo, but i'm not sure what caused it.

Good luck with your rebuild. Shoot some video if you can.

<<<<<<<UPDATE>>>>>>>

I got the spar in the main wing tonight. It's a CF rod aprox. Thats 1.4mmX4.5mmX610mm. I cut the top of the wing with a NEW #11 exacto blade. I used a panel line as a guide. I put the rod in so the 4.5mm dimension would be in the verticle plane.

When you put these flat CF rods in a wing it simply WILL NOT FLEX. It's stiff as a surface board!! http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif I had to test fit the flat CF rod 2X to make sure I cut a deep enough gusset. After it was installed as far as possible, it still stuck up a bit. You can see the aera where I'm pointing in one of the pix. I actually beat on it with a hammer to seat it down as much as possible. LOL!! After the beating it would still try to back out of the gusset I had cut, so after I beat it, I held it down and tacked it in place with some CA and some Kicker!! Then I did the other side and then I ran a line of thin foam safe CA along the whole rod. This thing is so stiff I'll bet I could almost hit a baseball with it, ok maybe thats going a bit far, LOL.

I also trimmed the fiber glass edges of the tail feathers and gave them a coat of paint. Here are som pix....sorry no pix of the tail feathers yet. It's almost ready for paint!!

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
08-02-2006, 09:35 AM
I got mine slapped together. It isn't finished yet but it is ready to fly!!

I may maiden mine tomorrow morning, We'll see. I was playing around with the idea that the A-10 needs a gun. Hey thats what the A-10 is, rite.....a flying gun. Here are some pix of the rough draft. It isn't glued in position yet. The gun was made out of lite ply and cocktail straws.

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
08-03-2006, 11:19 PM
I flew the A-10 this morning. It left my hand like a shot out of a gun. The 480/1020 KV E-Flight outrunner really pushes her along at a blazing pace.:eek: The vertical is truly unlimited. What a blast it is to fly!! That was this morning, I stopped on the way to the office to fly her again and thats when disaster struck. I gave her a toss at almost full throttle and again it took off so fast out of my hand that the 11 inch prop nipped my right index fingertip, CRAP!!:mad: I have been flying pushers for 3+ years without a misshap. Well my number must have been up. There was blood dripping all over my transmitter and the A-10 was climbing way too fast.:eek: I was in need of a bunch of down trim, and maybe some stitches, LOL!!

Well here I am bleeding all over and at the same time trying ot trim some down elevator into the A-10. I got it somewhat trimmed and I was a bit worried that maybe my finger was hanging by a thread. It didn't hurt at all and thats the part that was scary. The fact that it didn't hurt made me think that it might have cut the tip off!! I turned the plane around and tried to bring her in for a landing. There was sooo much blood on my transmitter that it spooked me a bit. That made me hurry the A-10 down for the landing, it wasnt pretty. The nose of the plane snapped off about an inch or two in front of the wing saddle and the motor popped off the back. Really the damage wasn't too bad, thanks to the glassing. I went to the drug store to get some Hydrogen Peroxide and the girl behind the counter almost passed out when she saw my finger, LOL!!:p The bleeding had stopped so I purchased some Hydrogen Peroxide and went to the office. One of the guys I work with was a medic in Viet Nam so I had him look at it and he said if I clean it out good, it should be fine without stitches. I put a finger tip bandage on it and bypassed the doctors visit. So far so good, that was 4 hours ago and it isn't even sore. I'm even able to type!! LOL!! Maybe tonight it will start to hurt.

So, be careful with your pusher planes. The A-10 will take about 10 minutes to fix and she will fly again. Now I wish I would have just took my time bringing her in for a landing. THats easy to say now that I'm mot bleeding like a stuck pig.:D

CTD

Glacier Girl
08-04-2006, 09:53 PM
:eek: Ahhh, a little CA and you'll be good to go. On the finger not the bird.
Would of shook up the customers at the Jag shop when you bled all over their upholstery.

ExtremeRC
08-05-2006, 10:39 AM
i'm going to use hyperion y22s motors, 3600kv and 25 amp cc poenix escs and run a hyperion 2500 3s 20c battery. i've read other people running this setup and it seems to work.

AIJ, 2100-2200mah is all you need with this setup, anything else just adds weight.

I just flew my A10 again today with this exact same setup that I documented months ago over on rc-groups. New video will be up this evening, I test flew my new 3s2150 packs which are using the best of enerland cells, same as PQ, Hyperion, Flight Power etc.

4 minute flight consumed 900mah and the pack was barely at body temperature, the setup is at 15c WOT and is a perfect balance between weight and performance. The AUW is now 675 grams. You can find my build thread here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513322

New video is here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=552112#post5859395

Crash Test Dummy
08-05-2006, 11:46 PM
:eek: Ahhh, a little CA and you'll be good to go. On the finger not the bird.
Would of shook up the customers at the Jag shop when you bled all over their upholstery.

Brad,

Now the question is do I use regular CA or foam safe?? LOL!! I put a new dressing on it today and had my Corman, Tim look at it and we agreed it is healing better than expected. It don't look like there is any infection and the butterfly tape I put on it made a nice repair. Tim is an X Corman who served in Viet Nam, he has seen more wounds in his time in country than most of will ever see.

I'm hoping to get the A-10 airborne tomorrow morning with the help of my 8 year old grand son. He is spending the night with us tonight. He loves to go fly with his Papa. I'll see is I can get some video of the A-10 with the E-Flight 480 motor. It really flys nice and fast too. The roll rate is about 3X as fast as stock, you'll see in the video.

Extreme RC,

I looked at your A-10 video, MAN was that thing hauling the mail or what!!! Very nice! I'll have to go back and see what set up you were running, very nice.

CTD:D

Crash Test Dummy
08-06-2006, 06:44 PM
OUCH!!!

I'm not a doctor............but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night!!!

Here is a picture of my prop bite, it's doing pretty good. I got some video of the A-10 this morning. I'll post it in a little while.

Ok, here are the videos, pop some popcorn and enjoy!!

http://media.putfile.com/slow-pass--climb-out
http://media.putfile.com/A-10-480-outrunner

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
08-07-2006, 04:26 PM
Got another flight in on the Hog this AM. With either prop I'm getting a solid 10 MIn flight time on a 2100 3S pack. I changed from a 11X7 to a 10X7 prop. I think I really like this motor on the larger prop. I'm also going to pick up a 11X8.5, that was always a good prop on this motor. plenty of thrust and nice top end speed. THis airframe needs quite a bit of up set into the elevator to fly level. I'm starting to remove some led out of the nose to see if that helps, however all three of the A-10's that I have had needed more up in the elevator than I thought it should.

CTD

jooNorway
08-17-2006, 02:53 PM
Wild set-up: 2x 13,5 kilo turbines...
But it is not a GWS!

Crash Test Dummy
08-17-2006, 09:31 PM
jooNorway,

That is a nice looking A-10!!! Who makes it? Please keep us updated on your progress.

Good news/Bad news

I flew my A-10 the other day at almost sunset. I had put some running lights on her and thought it would be cool to fly her near dusk. Well that wasn't the smartest thing I have ever done. I lost orientation and crashed her into Terra Firma!! Augh!! I didn't even want to look at the pile of foam, so there it sat for over a week. Yesterday I looked at it and found the foam in the area of the wing saddle was compressed and twisted. I don't think it can be fixed, however I do have my original A-10 fuse that is in good shape. I think I'll hack and patch the old with the new to make 1 new Frankinwarthog. More to come.......:D

CTD

jooNorway
08-19-2006, 12:23 PM
Crash Test Dummy: That is (unfortunat) not my A-10, a friend of mine had just received this beauty and I took some pictures just for fun. It is a quite unknown manufactorer (Chech), but it is beautiful. Vingspan appr 3 meter, and AUW supposed to be appr 25 kilo. He intend to finish his TurboRaven first so it will not be done before late fall.
If I remember I will post pictures when he is done and have maidened the Warthog ;)

rahtware
08-19-2006, 01:39 PM
Looks like it could swallow a small child if you are not careful!!

Crash Test Dummy
08-19-2006, 03:34 PM
jooNorway,

Thanks, it really looks sweet!!!

Larry,

That was funny. Your crackin me up.

CTD

Crash Test Dummy
08-22-2006, 06:33 AM
Got the A-10 repaired. Should test fly her tomorrow.

CTD

sparkola
08-24-2006, 01:26 AM
I am just about done on my A-10. I am running the new hyperflow technology 56mm fans on eflite 400 inrunners(4200). Polk Hobby's 30 amp brushless esc's and a thunderpower 3s2p 2000. Seems to be pulling 25amps according to my wattmeter. Is this total or 25amps each? The esc's are wired in parallel to the battery. Will it fly

Crash Test Dummy
08-24-2006, 02:28 AM
I'm not an EDF guy. Sorry, maybe one of the other guys might field this question.

I got a test flight on my repaired A-10 on yesterday. I'll post a flight report later tonight.

The Frankinwarthog is done. She isn't pretty yet but she flew. I mated the front of the old A-10 fuse with the tailfeathers of my current one. I also put about a 3 inch or less section of the newer nose onto the old fuse. The old A-10's nose was bashed in pretty good. I wil try to post some pictures of the Frankinwarthog later. I cut the fuse back by the motor nacells on both. Then I put them together to be sure they sat correctly against eachother. after some sanding it all looked good, however after it was epoxied together it had a bit of up in the elevator stab. I don't know how I screwed that up, it looked good before I epoxied it together.

Those of you that have an A-10 know that it needs quite a bit of up elevator to fly level. Well on my maiden I launched her and it was climbing like crazy since now the elevator stab itself had some up build into it. I put full down trim into her and it was still climbing at a crazy rate. I had to hold full down elevaton just to keep it from climbing!!!! I cut the power andf that helped some but I still had to hold almost 100% down on thew stick. I got her down and made a trim adjustment on my JR radio and tossed her again. It still was way too much, so I landed again and made another adjustment. Now it was flying pretty good but my trims were maxed out.

I'll have to make the adjustment on the control horn and re-set my radio trims. All in all I'm glad to have her flying again. Now I have the only A-10 with a level elevator control surface, LOL!

CTD

ExtremeRC
08-24-2006, 03:01 PM
My elevator is pretty much even, about a mm of up, I did realign my nacelles however, along with alot of other mods including reprofiling the chord of the wing to remove the built in flaps, replacing the control surfaces with balsa ones after tapering the wing to bring the TE down from 12mm to 6mm! All the details are on rcgroups.

Sparkola, if you have the e-meter plugged into the battery, and the ESC's plugged into the e-meter in parallel, then what you are seeing is the total amp draw of both fans running. This means your motors are pulling around 12-13 amps each. I am not familiar with these fans, do you have a picture of them or a link?

I would hazard a guess you are getting around 300 grams thrust per fan at this sort of amperage, ie 21oz or so from the two.

If you can post the voltage shown at 25 amps, and the RPM of the fan, I can tell you what sort of efficiency you are getting.

Crash Test Dummy
08-24-2006, 06:34 PM
Warning have all women and small children leave the room!! This is scary!!!

Here are the pix of the Frankinwarthog, she's not pretty but she is all mine.

CTD

sparkola
08-24-2006, 08:01 PM
11.5 volts under load and 49000 rpm

ExtremeRC
08-25-2006, 03:19 PM
Umm, thats not quite what I meant :D 48,300rpm is the unloaded Kv for a 4200Kv motor at 11.5 volts. What we need to know is the actual RPM of the fans themselves at whatever voltage.

The fact you are only pulling 25 amps at 11.5 volts says to me that at 10.5 volts (the usual sustained voltage for a 15c load in an A10) your amp draw will be around 22, my guess is that your fans will be running at around 28-30,000rpm.

EDIT: need to see a pic or link to your fans, how much different are they to the EDF55 blades?

Why are you using two 2000mah packs? whats the weight of the packs and the AUW of the plane?

With a 25 amp draw I would be using something like a PolyQuest 3s1800 20c pack, I fly mine with a 3s2200 20c pack and my 3600Kv fans pull 32-34 amps at 10.5v and pump out almost 400g thrust each.

A good test to see what the setup is doing is to sit it on the tail and open the throttle, see if it can hold itself up or not.

sparkola
08-26-2006, 12:21 AM
They are the new fans used in the great palnes xpd-8 some kind of new technology. They look nothing like the stockers. I'm going to recharge the battery and place the nose against my postage scale against the wall and power her up. That should give me approx thrust. It feels like it will tear right out of my hand I really got to hold on to this thing. It pulls more than my brushless stryker. Also it is just one battery with the esc's paralleled to it Thunder Power 2000 15c rated 3s2p

sparkola
08-26-2006, 12:22 AM
If I put it on it's tail it will go right through the ceiling!!!!

sparkola
08-26-2006, 12:26 AM
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p.pgm?&P=PR&I=GPMG3911 shows all the specs with diff motor battery combinations at bottom of page. closest motor in size puts out 19 oz each with the 3 cell setup

ExtremeRC
08-26-2006, 07:02 AM
Yup I found that page last night. The thing that is confusing is you say you are drawing 25 amps through a pair of these right? So 12.5 amps each fan. That would equate to around 300g of thrust per fan going by a rough guesstimation from their chart.

Their 3800Kv motor is pulling 20 amps for 450 grams thrust, more clarification is needed of your setup, its a very interesting fan and may be something to look into, but we need to confirm your setup accurately.

Also your pack is 3s2p which is a 3 cell 2 pack setup, is it 2000mah total? Am not familiar with TP packs, but 3s2p to me would be two 3s1000mah packs in parallel, whether they were all bound up in the one pack or not.

Firestem4
09-10-2008, 08:56 AM
Hey all. I just bought a GWS A-10 today and i was wondering if anyone had any building tips.

Im going to forgo the wheels for a belly-lander. Im going to be using 3900kv inrunners so I should have more than enough power to throw it.

Kosh
09-19-2008, 05:36 AM
Here's a few shots of my latest A-10 setup as a pusher of course.

Its powered by a Super Parkjet motor and can fly on 3 or 4 cell packs with ease. I had to hollow out some foam in the nose but who doesn't if they want to use a real battery. Because its flown from a grass field the landing gear was of no use so left off. Little paint was used and the plane turned out very lite and showed it with a fantastic glide rate.

norcalc6
07-09-2009, 06:45 AM
This is my second GWS A-10 build. My first A-10 had an unfortunate ending after the wing snapped in mid flight while pulling up on the elevator. My goal was to build a fast A-10 on a budget for less than $150 minus the cost of the battery and receiver.

Here's my setup:
GWS A-10 NPS kit $34
Two TURNIGY Plush 25amp Speed Controllers $34 (HobbyKing)
Two HXT 2435 (370S) 4400kv Brushless Inrunners $32 (HobbyKing)
Three HXT900 9g / 1.6kg / .12sec Micro Servo $11 (HobbyKing)
Two GWS 55mm EDF Units $20
Carbon fiber rod through 3/4 of the wing $5

Cost not included:
Zippy OEM 2200mAh 3S 20C Lipo Battery $16

Build notes:
1. Added carbon fiber rod to 3/4 of the wing
2. Added bamboo spar to the tail
3. Cut out the pilot seat so that the battery would fit and I could access the battery from the canopy.
4. Added magnets to the canopy
5. No clay added for balancing
6. Final weight with battery was 1.6 lbs

Flight notes:
1. The A-10 has plenty of power and climbs almost vertical.
2. Static current draw was 53A
3. Battery was warm after each flight flying at full throttle 50% of the time.
4. Stock landing gear was useless and broke after 3 flights. Removed the landing gear and taped the bottom with fiberglass tape.
5.

Sparky Paul
08-21-2009, 03:15 AM
Is the GWS A-10 with the EDF100 motors a flyer or as poor as the first version with the EDF50 motors was said to be?

trexflyer
08-24-2009, 01:44 AM
You guys should check out the carbon fiber kits I found on eBay. They come complete with cloth, epoxy resin (epoxy dosen't melt foam like polyester resin) and a bunch of other stuff for making your own custom parts. I'm doing a carbon fiber bulkhead for my electric Great Planes P-47. and custom stabilizers on my Trex 500!!!!!!:D